we do not have enough ppe. my hospital has been ahead of the curve, but we're still reusing ppe in ways that it wasn't intended to be reused. >> we ran out of blood tubing,

reran out of suction devices for the mouth. blood gas syringes and things that we take for granted on a day today basis. >> there is double beds in there, unheard of. >> we alwaysl deserve a federal government that supported us. >> i would hope that the public could see how sick these patients are and maybe they would start taking it seriously. they're truly fighting for their lives. >> that is just a glimpse of what it is like for front line workers. welcome to wednesday. i am chuck todd, continuing breaking news coverage of the coronavirus pandemic.

we're standing by for today's briefing from the white house which we learned will start closer to 5:45 and it comes at a moment when the president and others are eager to shift the national conversation towards reopening quickly and safely. oklahoma joined georgia said they will reopen hair and nail salons and barbershops this friday. . we have been virtually shut down since march 16th when the president urged everyone to stay home as much as everyone. roughly one coronavirus incubation period we started to see the number of new cases flatten out. as you see we have slowed the spread. more than a month of shutting down the economy so far has not produced a sustained drop. we're still seeing more than 20,000 new confirmed cases each

day. we have been seemingly treading water at a national scale. and while they have reduced the number of deaths each day, the rest of the country does not seem to be following the same trend. it bha that the wormay be that r for new york, but what else? it leads to an extraordinary question like states like georgia, tennessee, south carolina, oklahoma, are implementing plans to slowly reopen. and without wide scale testing, without a breakthrough in therapeutics, vaccines showing up this calendar year, this is a question that every community leader and household will have

to answer. people are still getting sick. just getting us to this point has lead to job losses and food lines not sign since the great depression. meanwhile they're learning about famines of biblical proportions. we can't make a bad decision, and we can't with stupid about it. this is not going to be over any time soon. i know people want out. i get it. i know people want to get back to work. i know people want a paycheck. i know this sun sustainable. i also know more people will die if we are not smart.

i know that. i have to do that count every day of the number of people who passed away. we're not going to have people lose their life because we acted imprudently. i'm not going to do that. >> joining me now is breaking news about a personnel change in the coronavirus response. joining me now is kirstin welker. they are bracing for what happens if they start to reopen their economies. but i want to start with this breaking news that everybody's phones have been buzzing about. that is to a decision to a career scientist, rick blair was reassigned in part, according to him, he believes he h was simply reassigned because he didn't

embrace the use of the medicine as a therapeutic for covid 19. this is the drug that the president said what do you have to lose? this is dr. rick bright. he was very critical. let me read you a statement that we were able to obtain from dr. bright. he said i believe this transfer

was in response to my insistence that the government allocate billions of dollars to address the covid 19 pandemic into safe and scientifically related organizations and not those that lack scientific support. so, undoubtedly the reporters in the briefing room and the broader question of and i will be curious to see what they have to say, what if any impact could this have on the effort to get a vaccine to combat covid 19. >> the president indicated that i think there is going to be -- let me put it this way, there is

a growing concern that this white house is trying to violence some of these scientists. the cdc director came out yesterday and said it could be worse. we're worrying about the flu, and we need to brace for the fall and in fact, the cdc director indicated when he brings this up, he is met with -- nobody wants to accept that agency. did they put out a new statement or no? >> not that we're aware of at this point. you have the president speaking from a very different play book than some of his top doctors.

this is the latest and most start example, but everything that we heard from doctors and medical experts in days is that we are bracing for the possibility that this could be worse in the fall. and remember in the early days of this virus with president trump saying we're fast tracking getting a vaccine and then you have dr. faruci come to the podium saying it is likely going to be at least 18 months. >> it calls into question what can be believes from the task force if the scientists are being muted, shut down, or reassigned. and it could have been illegal since he was not a political appointee, it would have been

illegal to fire him. thank you very much. let's check in on the two hot spots. first i want to go to blaine alexander. i know there continues to be an anxiousness, has that gotten any better today. >> they are pushing back on what governor has to say. has it gotten any better? no, she does not believe this is a good move, she doubled down on this today, but it is not just the city of atlanta. it is one of the biggest hot spots there and they asked for help because there are so many deaths he asked if he could have more leniency and the governor said he wants a uniform policy across the state of georgia and he was denied that special

requests. what are businesses going to do on friday and what is businesses going to do. but there is no way but others admit they're in a tough position. it is hard on them, hard on their employees, and they say even though they're still concerned, they're going to open their doors with new precautions on friday, chuck. >> blaine alexander in georgia. steve, you and i talked earlier today about the city leaders that would want to open up the city, but big picture it is really hard to figure out how they do this safely in las vegas and how can they do this and when they do reopen will anyone

come? >> there is no play book for any of this chuck. it has not happened and that there is no playbook for reopening, how do you invite masses of people into dark confined smokey space that's is the life blood of this state and think think that the sentiment from people is conflict and we have been speaking to several business orders and they know what it means, they understand why it is important, they're looks at the science. but at the same time their businesses are collapsing and it has been going on for long. someone that manages around 11 properties, all businesses on one block, she says one of them is up and running and she is

worried act any of them coming back. it is a real, real conflict on the ground. >> no doubt, steve patterson in las vegas, before that blaine alexander. i want to turn to a couple doctors now. get a look at how doctors outside of big cities are handling this pandemic, we want to bring in the chief of staff in decatur. let me start, first, on a grand national scale. i'm wondering if you're concerned with the following issue -- becausely admittedly, i am. the focus of new york is the epicenter. as new york heals there will be a perception that the country is getting over the hump. and we did some -- it looks like

you take new york out and we have flattened the curve but it looks like shark teeth. it has stalled, where do you assess us right now. >>. >> i think we're at and the swabs of less than a percentage of the population at this point. we need decreased cases for 14 indications to open it back up or if it is even being met. it is the blind leading the blind in terms of our elected officials in places like georgia that are opening up tattoo parlors and other nonessential times of establishments when we have such a data void.

at the end of the day. people making the decisions don't have to deal with the consequences, it's my colleagues, and the respiratory therapists that have to deal with it. >>. >> paint the picture in your area right now when it comes to covid. >> thank you for having us on this evening. first, you know we're continuing to see cases develop. we have begun to see the number the cases start to decline. we have seen the number of ems runs start to decline, but the one thing that i would caution is that health care systems and providers and health care workers everywhere are still realing. and the thought of opening things up too quickly it frankly

makes us nervous in different ways. we still have many health care workers right now just returning to work after having combatted this virus themselves. they are wore out from dealing with this and they have not had a break for six or eight weeks or more. we have great support from your community. >> dr. gupta, i'm curious about health care workers and the financial security of hospitals. no elective surgeries means that is a lifeline that is gone.

>> i think my anesthiology. people that we need to run hospitals and run them safely, they're hurting right now and it is a big deal. my wife is a pediatrician, and they had to let go of a lot of staff and mas. who is to say when they will be able to come back and restaff the clinics. get to full operations, it is a big problem, i think doctors will be fine, but it is everyone else that i'm really worries about. >> you set this up sort of interestingly. you said some things are bending

downward in your area, but you're worried about the relief to your health care workers. talk to me about the fall, do you think you're prepared for a double whammy of the flu and covid at the same time. >> i hope that this effects preventive health measures. i hope we see more people take advantage of the influenza operation, but one reason this is hitting so hard and so fast the feelings were more at risk for a viral penetration, and kids were still in school, so we're going to return to the same types of situations in the fall. and unless we have point of care

testing, unless we have early effective treatment to prevent the progress, unless we have vaccination treatment for people with exposures we'll be dealing with a second wave. hopefully we have a build up of ppe, equipment, and supplies, but we expect it and it will be difficult to ascertain that. >> dr. gupta, is it easier if the political leaders simply said look there will be a mild respite but we can't open the country completely, but we can lighten it up, but the fall could be harsh if we don't practice social distancing and things like that. is there a compromise of doing a relief vafl of just closing them in the fall that is realistic

and less helpful. >> i think we can talk about safety if we start messaging, and the president starts messaging on what is evidence based. let's all wear masks in public. that needs to be a key piece. i don't see enough adoption of it here in sooe yatt eattle. that is number one. let's get blaz ma where it needs to go, the government can help, when it comes to getting people back to people back to work. maybe we should focus more on what is safe or not safe. people are manning car washes, i heard that is a great example of what is safe, maybe we can do that it is automated, bringing back more people into the workforce, they're social distancing. and we should broaden and be

flexible about about what is safe or not safe. >> that is a good way of putting it, safe and not safe rather than essential and nonessential. thank you. i appreciate you ticking around. it is now set for 5:45 so you will have about a half our break there. the difficult choice that local governments are facing nation whooid. i'm going to talk to the major of nashville about these life and death decisions. it is the gloom of the pandemic. the air plus in india has cleared just enough so that now they can see something they have not seen in along time. the himalayas, argentina is also

having much clearer skies as well. i'm greg, i'm 68 years old.

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welcome back, as we told you oklahoma is the latest state to announce that barbershops and spas and salons can reopen. every state is making their own rules on how to open in georgia. they made it clear that his order super seeds that. in tennessee when they announced that the stay at home order would lift, he left exceptions for major states like nashville. now it is in the hands of the mayor. thank you for coming on, walk me

through where you believe you are as a community right now and why may is reasonable. >> we had a lot of progress with social distancing here. today's number of cases was only 26. we have a little different path, we're working on good social distancing protocol. nashville is different. we have health care and schools, so we not only need to be safe, but we need a implementation. so we want to put it on each part of our economy and we'll announce a draft of those tomorrow. everyone has a week or more to get ready for a gentle reopening

and a phased approach. >> you're a city where the entertainment dollar gets spent. how different will it be to bring nashville back as an entertainment capital? how have you prepared the indust industry. >> understand that customer confidence is key to being able to reopen. right now if they're lucky, they have to have the airport reopen. they are coming to a safe environment right now in and in the separate restart, and they

facing your technique, a. >> what about, are you concerned that some neighboring counties will have different rules and it creates an issue and it may get some spread. >> you're concerned about it, but we're working together to be fairly consistent. the governor has direct control of 89 health departments and the cities basically have crop of the rest. it would be easier if we all follow followed. if every cracker barrel reopening had the same protocol it would be easier. that is probably in the end what

will happen. we're certainly going to read theirs and we will have a good outcome. >> how about live events, when do you think you will see the predators play and the titans play in person? >> our public health folks, everybody agrees until there is a vaccine you're going to be -- it will be difficult to do. phase four where you show your economy is basically back and you get to the next big event, all stadiums will be affected, all live performances, let me put in a plug for nashville, we have the most live music venues, you're really going to suffer. our economy has been hugely affected by this but you can't do it until it is safe.

>>. >> sometimes when people are handing out money in washington, the idea of helping a cask ka - casino or something else, businesses whose life blood is the entertainment try that will not get help from the government? >> absolutely, we have a lot of gig workers. musicians, songwriters, and the fact that hospitality is not at the front line is going to make it difficult. our city will help us navigate the days ahead. but we have have universities and schools, too. we need them to reopen in a very safe way for all of our economy to come back. >> yeah, i don't know when we will have 100,000 people in a

football stadium in knoxville. >> won't it be great when we do? >> it will, it will, you know what? as a college football fanatic, i will look forward to that season when we can do it again. thank you for sharing your views with us. >> up ahead, new york, new jersey, and connecticut have a new plan. how it works, and the billionaire who isback it. ♪ ♪ the coronavirus continues to affect us all, and we are here, actively supporting you and your community. every day, we're providing trusted information from top health experts...sharing tools

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welcome back, if ramped up testing is crucial for reopening the economy, so will contact tracing which you're going to hear a lot about. that involves not only tracking down people that tested positive, but identifying everyone that those positive people will have contact with. former new york city mayor michael bloomberg. they will coordinate on the program. >> no one has. we just never have done this. there are a few textbooks that spoke about it, but we have never done. and we have never done it near this scale. it is an intimidating exercise. but i say so what.

so what if you have never done it. it is really irrelevant. >> dr. kelly henning who leads g the organization, why is this being funded by a private institution and not by the federal government? >> thank you for having me. you know bloomberg ph philanthropies is happy to be part of this, and what he always does is in areas of public health, and that is to create opportunity for catalytic early work. we're thinking that our donation and our partnership with new york state will get this contact

tracing program up and off of the ground. >> so do you hope this is a model they can scale up? >> yes, part of the program is to develop a program that works really well so disseminating that model and those lessons will be a big part of the state. >> seems like you have unique challenges. there is such a dense area. one person, if someone in that room got it, tested positive, and contact traced, that is 20 people you would immediately have to go and get and fife

there. but what kind of labor force is necessary to pull something like this off? >> so we're talking about going from a few 100 contact tracers that work in public health in new york state today to several thousand, three or four thousand or perhaps more. it depends on the number of cases that need to be identified. so the scale is really quite unprecedented. and we're pleased to be about to partner with the state to try to sort out how to stand that up and be as effective and efficient as possible. >> some of these programs and ideas out there, one of the other aspects of it is quarantining people in a separate location if they have

been found to be positive. that means in hotels, other areas, is this program going to be able to do that yet or not yet? >> it is an aspiration of rg new york state to make sure everyone that is in contact of a case is quickly notified of that fact. and those people for 14 days are in their hope or a safe locality. some don't have a home where they can be safely in quarantine. they may need additional support. but it is that broadly across the contacts, yes. >> have you figured out how many individuals you need to do the tri-state area? >> i think new york state is where we're beginning.

new york state is in close contact with new jersey and connecticut. we would like to help new york state stand up a couple thousand contact tracers, and see if we need to roll out another couple thousand or more than that. so it will depend on the number of cases as we move forward. >> i saw some med students might make up that labor force. what qualifications do you need to be a contact tracer. and you might need census workers or another sort of twhafrs is not being used right now, like tsa agents. >> new york state is contemplating using students from their state university system or their city university city, that is one option. contact tracers need to be people who are very resourceful,

very who are empathetic. people who can recognize a serious situation. someone that needs to be part of it. part of the program is a training program to help anyone that is hired as a contact trace tore go through. they do that piece of the work in collaboration. >> all right, dr. kelly, thank you for giving us a little tutorial. i have a feeling it is something we will all becoming familiar with. thank you for taking a turn. what the reopening in europe could mean for the united states.

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welcome back, states across the u.s. have plans to reopen and several european countries have restarted. the country's lock down ends in early may, but some businesses have reopened their doors. like here many fear a second spike if restrictions are eased too soon. as matt bradley tells us, they warm of another -- >> they can't wait to leave their homes, they're saying this task force assigned by the prime minister of italy came up with a plan, a list of suggestions, and they submitted them and they're expecting to come out with a comprehensive plan to lift this lock down that has been in place for six weeks. and he will come out with the plan before the end of this

week. at least that is what he told this restless nation. we're not seeing and hearing as many people singing and playing instruments on their balconies, people are waiting to get outside. but this there will be incremental changes between now and then. we'll start to see some regions starting to lift their own lock downs, we're going to start to see according to the prime minister certain groups of workers going back to work. construction workers, important industries, and those working from home should expect to continue working from home even after the lock down on made third. but we keep talking about america, europe, and asia, it seems so far like this is a rich person's disease on the global level. in the united nations they came out and said the attendant

affliction of economic disaster is going to follow this and it will hurt countries in the developing world much harder than it hurt the developed world. right now they have managed to escape the worst relative to what we're seeing, but they expect to see the full burden of the economic pain after the buy logical pain passes. the united nations and the head of the world food program said we can expect hunger on biblical proportions, and the number of people to double. a generation of advances in alleviating hunger worldwide. some 500,000 people can be expected to sink into absolute poverty. and again, these are people that will probably not have experienced, seen, or felt

themselves the physical pain of the virus. they will be hit by the economic pain. the new coronavirus will not necessarily hurt them, but poverty will be what afflicts them. >> matt bradly on the ground for us there. thank you very much. up next, what businesses stand at risk of falling into an economic abyss of the coronavirus never to return. we live in uncertain times. however, there is one thing you can be certain of. the men and women of the united states postal service. we're here to deliver cards and packages from loved ones and also deliver the peace of mind of knowing that essentials like prescriptions are on their way. every day, all across america, we deliver for you. and we always will. in nearly 100 years serving the military community,

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if you didn't have a place like this, what would you do? >> i don't know. i wouldn't know, really, to be honest. i've never been in a type of situation like this. i've always worked. i've always been able to support myself. it's always been okay. it's different right now. >> welcome back to the tragedy of the coronavirus is of course much deeper than the people who are sick and dying. it's also leaving unprecedented number of people out of jobs and with little money to feed their families. and as some states decide to take their chances and reopen their economies, one of the questions we're all asking is what do the economies and the u.s. economy look like in a post pandemic world? according to the commerce department's monthly retail report. >> retail sales 8.47% in march, and we weren't shut down for all of march. and it's safe to assume that this month's numbers will be a lot worse. for some business that are already in decline, this might be the final blow. nieman marcus is expected to

file for bankruptcy in the near future, and it probably won't be the only one. joining me now is nbc news senior business correspondent stephanie ruhle. you know, stephanie, there has been -- it feels like, and i'm just curious if this is the way you and the experts see it. if you were a fragile sector, say big box retail store, this will accelerate your problems. movie theater, things like that this isaccelerant. is that fair to say? >> absolutely. remember, the last couple of years as far as the stock market went, these businesses didn't have higher earnings. their p/e ratios were going up. they were riding with the market going higher and rates being so low. but you want to talk retail? you know this. the american shopping mall has been dying for years because of the amazon effect. well, now this is the amazon effect times 50. and not just nieman marcus. we're going to see a lot of

retailers really in pain. here is a quick snapshot. today i spoke to howard schultz, co-founder of starbucks. he said if this happened in 1987 when they started in the coffee business, they had 11 stores and 100 employees. given the programs the government have offered thus far, they wouldn't have made it through. starbucks is an institution. lots of our businesses in this country work on very thin margins. they just don't have cash. so as we're shut down right now indefinitely, or even if we open up in fits and starts, you're not going to see these businesses come back in a robust way. and given the amount of support that we've given, at least for small businesses, you're going to have a bad situation. >> you know, i keep one of the places we've been touching on today is las vegas. and i've been trying to figure out the casino industry in general between the lack of sports around the world.

so the entire gaming industry. and this is not, stephanie, one that politicians are going to line up to say let's bail them out. and yet it is -- what does nevada look like in a year? >> okay. gaming is the only industry, is the only significant industry in nevada. you know that states can't run deficits. so let's say things open back up. once they reformat all of these casinos for social distancing, they'll be taking slot machines out. you're not going have any large scale events. and vegas makes their money not in margin, but in volume. so people aren't going to be going back. vegas is a perfect example. and the reason we should be especially worried about nevada, they were one of the states hit the hardest by the subprime crisis, and many are still under water. they haven't gotten out from under it. >> and that's just one industry that's on this front. another thing that i've talked to some people about is there is

going to be a second economic punch to the gut next year, and that will be sort of a level of layoffs of this sort of middle -- people that make really good lives laid off because they were caught in between being essential for the business and being nonessential. >> and the thing is demand has just gone down. yes, there are certain industries you look at amazon or walmart or pharmaceuticals where demand is up in a huge way. but think about spending. think about your own life right now, chuck. you're not out there spending big. no one is. everyone has gotten very conservative. and even when we go back out there, we're not going to be spending in any robust way. so the second round of layoffs that's really going to come in the near future are businesses that are still functioning, but they've got a lot less need and a lot less revenue coming in. chuck, this is really bad. >> no, it is something i think

we haven't fully appreciated how bad it's going to get on the economic front. stephanie ruhle, thank you. you know about terminal breaks, and i want the take one here. thank you all for being with us this hour. we are still waiting for the start of the briefing. msnbc's coverage is going to continue right after this short break. one small way that you can help them in return. complete your 2020 census today. 2020 census data helps communities plan funding for hospitals, clinics, and emergency services across the country. an accurate count helps public health officials know who is at risk, and first responders identify the resources they need to protect our communities. complete your census at 2020census.gov and help shape our future. good morning, mr. sun. good morning, blair. [ chuckles ] whoo. i'm gonna grow big and strong. yes, you are. i'm gonna get this place all clean. i'll give you a hand. and i'm gonna put lisa on crutches!

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good evening. i'm chuck todd. continuing msnbc's breaking news coverage of the coronavirus pandemic.