hi there i'm joshua johnson live at msnbc headquarters in new york. great to be with you, lots to talk about, let's get to the facts. right now the u.s. has more than 934,000 confirmed cases of coronavirus. more than 53,000 people have died. that is part of a global death toll that just crossed an unsettling milestone, covid-19 has been known to kill 200,000 people worldwide among 2.8 million cases according to john hopkins.

we didn't hear from the white house task force, the first time since easter sunday that president trump didn't hold a briefing. regarding that he tweeted, quote, what is the purpose of having white house news conference when the lame stream media asks no, sir but hostile questions and refuses to report the truth accurately to get record ratings and the american people get nothing but fake news, not worth the time and effort. unquote. these briefings have been under increasing criticism especially after this thursday when the president thought outloud about using uv light or disinfectant to kill the virus inside the human body. meanwhile states across the u.s. are taking small steps to reopen their economies. in georgia governor allowed some businesses to open, including hair salons, gyms, bowling alleys and spas. hair dressers in oklahoma can get back to work and nail salons and movie theaters and gyms in

oklahoma open may 1st. no such luck in new york. this state remains on lockdown. today all first responders can get antibody testing whether they have symptoms or not. now new york's pharmacies are allowed to offer tests. we begin at the white house on this day without a briefing. it might have something to do with president trump's illogical comments on thursday. yesterday he claimed he was just being sarcastic to provoke the press. today he changed his story again and tweeted quote was just informed that the fake news from the thursday white house press conference had me speaking and asking questions of dr. deborah birks h birk x -- unquote. here is what he actually said. on thursday. said. on thursday. >> i would like you to speak to

the medical doctors to see if there's anyway that you can apply light and heat to cure. you know. if you could. and maybe you can, maybe you can't. again, i say maybe you can, maybe you can't. i'm not a doctor. i'm, like, a person that has a good, you know what. deborah, have you ever heard of that? the heat and the light relative to certain viruses, yes, but relative to this virus. >> not as a treatment. certainly fever is a good thing when you have a fever, it helps your body respond but not as -- i've not seen heat or light -- >> i think it's a great thing to look at. >> those comments shocked a good many people, including some of the president's closest aids that may be why last night's briefing is one of the shortest with about 20 minutes, with updates on testing but no questions to the president. let's discuss with our panel, associate editor and white house

correspondent -- and the dean of studies at baylor college of medicine. good to have you all with us. anita, let's start with you and play within more clip from the d play within more clip from the play one more clip from the briefing on thursday. >> they say the disinfectant knocks it out in a minute. is there a way we can do something like that. by injection inside or -- or, almost a cleaning, because you see, it gets in the lungs and does a tremendous number. it will be interesting to check that. that you are going to have to use medical doctors with. but it sounds -- it sounds interesting to me. >> this led lysol to release a statement to ask it people please not drink or inject lysol. anita, a friend of mine said every news network has turned into the onion like this should not be happening, this makes no sense. what's going on at the white

house, after all, this is crazy. >> well, there are some report that's the president did get a study -- information from a study that did talk about sunlight and disinfectant how important they were, but not to enjekt -- inject in the body but as we know disinfectants on surfaces, sunlight is helpful. so the president often takes information and sort of processing it as he's talking about it and he just talks about things that are coming into his head. you have seen federal agencies including epa, fda, surgeon general saying don't do this, don't listen to that, please consult your doctors. perhaps not calling out the president by name but definitely talking about his comments. >> doctor, these comments put the doctors surrounds donald trump in a bad light, dr. fauci not attending lately.

here's reports -- and if you haven't seen the look on dr. birx's face when she made that comment, it also says a lot. how do you retookt statements like this as a doctor? >> it certainly puts people like tony, like dr. fauci who has been a colleague and friend for decades, in a tight spot, a difficult position. at first i thought the comments were so over the top that no one would take them seriously but then we're hearing reports that poison control is reporting increases in bleach poisoning, that sort of thing. i'm pretty sure we'll be able to handle that. the two issues that concerned me about that briefing were as

follows, one, you had this report from the applied physics laboratory at john hopkins talk about the uv radiation of sunlight on the virus and also humidity and that's true of influenza. i think the sub text of that, therefore, it may be okay to relax social distancing this summer and there's no evidence for that. i would think the reason it sounded like they were putting that up there on the briefing was that they want to use this as evidence for seasonality of the virus and you can't make that link. even influenza which is susceptible to sunlight is present all year in the tropics. so that was a concern. the other piece is the bigger picture which is the fact now we're opening economies in multiple states and we still don't have a framework in place for doing the contact tracing and adequate testing at places of employment and syndromic

testing as well. so this is going to be really important to put in place if we're serious about opening the country ahead of schedule when these health metrics is telling us we still need to keep social distancing in place. >> just to be clear, with regards to heat, light and humidity, we should be clear the report and also what they said in the briefing on thursday had to do with coronavirus on non-porous surfaces in terms of the conditions under which the virus does and does not have a longer half life. the virus is in more than 70 degrees more than 80% humidity and direct sunlight its half life drops from hours to minutes. that's the point initially. >> right but the fact it was presented in the way it did gave the sub text that maybe therefore there's evidence that it's okay to open up the country in the summer months because of lower virus viability and there's absolutely no evidence for that.

>> speaking of opening up the country, this has turned in some ways and i wish it wouldn't because coronavirus can effect anybody but there is kind of a red state, blue state aspect with certain states portrayed with dealing with it one way and other states another way. there's a thread in terms of the policies and politics around all this, where does that stand right now, as you see it? >> yeah, i'm with you joshua, i mean, it's really regrettable to think a global pandemic has to be turned into a red state, blue state issue but that's the world we live in right now in this country and certainly becomes a hot potato on a red state blue state scale as well. we have seen this phenomenon of southern states defying the federal guides that the president and dr. fauci and dr. birx laid out ten days ago when

deciding how to open up. they said the state should are at least 14 days of declining cases before going into a very cautious phase one. georgia which opened on friday certainly doesn't fit that bill. georgia has had an increase number of cases not a decreasing number and they're the state that's moving most aggressively towards opening up. we know oklahoma has taken steps to open up. texas too shortly. south carolina. you see a theme, all southern states controlled by republic an governors and you recall in the early days of this pandemic when p president trump was down playing it and saying it wasn't going to get here from china or that it was going to be easily contained by just a few cases, fox news and other conservative media were amplifying that point and probably led many people in some of these states to believe it wasn't that big of a threat and now what they want to do is get out from under these structures. everybody wants to. we're all tired of being in our

homes and we want to get moving and see the country come back to the economy we knew before but frankly it's not going to be possible unless it's done very system atticly and strategically that's why the fear of this open up in georgia is such a concern and we're going to see how things fair down there. >> thank you to our guests, everyone thanks very much for making time for us. as we mention georgia is it beginning to reopen businesses under a plan that's drawn criticism for brian kemp with georgia having more than 22,000 coronavirus cases and just over 900 known deaths. businesses like bowling alleys, salons and spas and tattoo parlors are allowed open this weekend. many georgia mayors are cautioning residents to stay home including the mayor of athens georgia, good evening. >> good evening, joshua, thanks for having me on. >> what would need to happen before you would feel

comfortable really reopening athens? >> well, whether you're looking at a think tank like the american enterprise institute or research facility like johns hopkins they all noted you need at least two weeks of consistent downward trajectory of new cases and we haven't been there. the testing apparatus in georgia has increased slightly, but really needs to be four times where it is now to make sure we can do the testing necessary. not even to mention the contact tracing that would have to be ramped up from nothing to an enormous operation. i take the governor and his word that he cares about small businesses but what he's laid out isn't the right way to support small businesses in this situation. >> how's athens doing right now? >> athens is doing well. we were the first community in the state to issue a shelter in place order and so we very early on had conversations with our

public at large to let them know this is a time for your own health and for the health of your neighbors and loved ones you need to be conscious and we've been great, we in athens proper have actually seen the rate slow while many other communities around the state, gainesville, georgia, macon, some of the mountain communities that are very small have overtaken us in a number of cases. so i'm proud of our local population. but one of the enduring lessons in this crisis is that we're all in this together. we all share the same supply chain and ppe, we all go to the same hubs like athens for health care. so while we're a community of just 130,000 we serve this etchman area of 170,000 so we have 0 so we have to be conscious of our

neighbors. >> i'm sure there's folks in athens who desperately need income trite now. how do you feel the gap for them until you diem is safe for them to get back to work. >> i've been strongly encouraging state and federal partners to take that component seriously and we've been doing that locally. we committed more than $3 million to local aid for small businesses. we're nonprofit partners. for indigital ent care and other needs. we're doing everything we possibly can. partnering with local non-profits and chamber of commerce, unveiling every resource offered. when you're a local government you don't have everything you have to offer compared to the state and feds. and so with the consortia of mayors and county commission chairs across it's country i've been actively encouraging governor kemp and the trump administration to do everything

possible. i was glad this week -- states and localities need funding as well. >> do you feel you're being heard? how is communication between the governor's office and athens city. >> governor's kemp office is responsive when i reach out for them. i thank them for that. but they haven't put the structured plan in place to let everyone know here are the metrics we are going to meet before we open again. here are what we'll look at for phase one, phase two, phase three. frankly, the opportunity for bowling alleys and hair salons and nail salons and massage therapists to open back up would have been in my mind phase three and four, not phase one. so we just need a rational guide to reopening. you don't have to look far in the southeast. you can look to a near neighbor of nashville, tennessee who has put together that structured

plan. that's what everybody in georgia needs is to know okay here are the numbers we need to look at and here's the associated step. then here's the next set of numbers and here's that next associated step. we don't have that kind of structured communication coming out of the governor's office. >> mayor, thanks for making time for us. >> thank you so much. >> much more to come here on msnbc up next, the search for running mate, joe biden contemplates who might take the spot he once held, who would be the democrats dream candidate and would she even consider it? that is next. that is next to animal antics we could laugh about later. but we haven't seen this. so, farmers is reducing auto premiums by 25%, extending payment due dates, and expanding coverage for the delivery drivers who are carrying us through. and then we'll do the next thing,

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joe biden just marked the anniversary of his presidential campaign's launch. he spent it in part with a full throated critique of president trump. the apparent democratic nominee went after the president's handling of coronavirus. he wants a stimulus bill that is a hell of a lot bigger than $2 trillion. mr. biden has more pressing concerns, choosing a running mate. one person considered a potential choice spoke with joy reid this morning. >> i am not aware if i'm being vetted. but again, i have to tell you, joy. i'm focused on what we're doing right now with this coronavirus. i'm honored to be considered if i'm being considered. and there you go. >> senator kamala harris is on a

lot of short lists there is another figure that excites the democratic base even more. michelle obama. he joins us now to discuss it. good evening. >> why michelle obama? >> why not? think about the magic of obama/biden ticket but in reverse. biden/obama ticket. when i mentioned this to the chair woman of the michigan democratic party just offhanded in the discussion, i think the words out of her mouth were, oh, my gosh. that's the reaction you hear from democrats. she's sort of a transformational figure, she's above regular politics. i think the ugov or economist had done a global survey and found that she was the most popular woman in the world. if she decided to be joe biden's running mate, which she and all

of her allies insist she doesn't want to be, she doesn't want to run for any office. she would be kind of head and shoulders above any other candidate and perhaps even head and shoulders above the top candidate. >> there's that. but based on what she has said before, it feels like ping your hopes to michelle obama on the ticket is like saying, you ain't gonna date no one who's name ain't beyonce. this is not happening. what does that tell you about the democratic party now. >> there are concerns that many people have about joe biden. you've seen them discuss if you're on twitter, social media. he is 77, he's been locked away in his basement. he hasn't been hitting the campaign trail. michelle obama could do that. that's not to pay short shrift to any of the other candidates. you just had that clip on from kamala harris. there's probably the most buzz about her as a candidate. it's a black box as to what joe biden's going to do. he has a short list of 12 to 15

candidates. beyond having to be ready on day one, of course you're going to paying a candidate like that. he wants someone he's sympatico with, who that's going to be who knows? you're seeing a revisiting of this debate, this discussion you've heard since 2016, a little bit before, how much does the democratic party really want to go toward courting the white working class, less educated, better said, no college degree white working class versus the more ascended obama coalition. of younger, more progressive, more african-american, more latino, less white, and you sort of see a unique division in the list of potential candidates of joe biden's that sort of divide along those lines. that's the short hand but really

the debate you're going to see in the broader political context or broader political scope. >> even within that conversation about the race of the running mate, there's a strong argument that a woman of color, whoever it is, needs to be joe biden's running mate. kamala harris, stacey abrams. governor of georgia. we heard of val demmings. was on the team that impeached the senate. why not elevate a new face to the national stage. kind 6 like what democrats did with barack obama. it paid off before. why don't democrats seem jazzed about doing it again? at least now? >> i think a lot of democrats are, and at least when it comes to having a woman of color on the ticket, the -- perhaps the one politician, the one congressman who could lay claim to resurrecting joe biden's campaign lazarus style is james clyburn. he endorsed biden.

clyburn said he would like to see a woman of color. and so did john lewis. the civil rights icon and georgia congressman. you are seeing a pretty strong push for that, i think the smart money is on a woman of color, but i don't always trust where the smart money is going to be placed. >> before people send me angry tweets, i have nothing against michelle obama, i love michelle obama. >> it's too late. >> she's a goddess mt. olympus, i are nothing against michelle obama, these are just questions, don't send me angry tweets. mark, from politico, thanks for talking to us. >> good to see you, bye. businesses are reopening in texas. we will have more on the retail to go executive order which is intended to help businesses and keep customers safe. coronavirus is not just an urban problem, there's new reporting about the growing caseload in rural areas and how they could have a tough time fighting back. sbl sblap. sbl sblap. good morning, mr. sun. good morning, blair. [ chuckles ]

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this weekend a hand full of states are letting some businesses reopen. texas is among them. right now it has more than 24,000 confirmed cases and 700 deaths. the state's stay at home order is set to lapse this thursday. today is day two of governor abbott's executive order, known as retail to go. it lets certain stores do business curbside. he could make another announcement monday regarding more businesses that could reopen. priscilla thompson is in texas right now. do we have any idea what he may have in mind? >> the governor has been teasing that upcoming announcement for the past few days, he signaled there could be massive reopenings. anything from restaurants to movie theaters, and even churches. he's also been sure to emphasize that he's going to be looking at

this on a county by county basis. this isn't going to be a one size fits all second phase of reopening. more than a week ago, he announced his first executive order which was going to allow for those elective surgeries to resume. and also for that retail to go option. this was the first weekend that that was actually in place. and i spoke to the business owner here who told me that while she's thankful for the retail to go option, it's not going to be enough on its own. take a listen to what she told me. >> it takes a tremendous amount of cashflow to support a business on this street. i don't think it will -- it cannot be enough. if that's how it continues, we will see the loss of stores, because you have to be able to be open to the public. >> i want to point out the business owner you just heard from did apply for the paycheck protection program. her application has been stuck

in processing because as we know that program ran out of money this past week, she's hoping with the second injection of cash into that program, she may be able to get relief. she tells me she's going to be watching governor abbott's comments very closely this upcoming week. joshua? >> yeah, if he is going to go county by county, you know how many counties are in texas? 254. will be interesting to see how it works out. thanks very much, that's priscilla thompson in houston. in the early days of this outbreak, we focused on urban areas. places that were hit hard. and suffered the some of the virus's first known loss of life. now in areas that over now the virus is a nationwide problem, including in rural areas that overwhelmingly voted for donald trump in 2016. according to a brookings institution analysis, the pandemic's rapid growth in this country is outside the big cities and that growth is happening faster than it did in more populous states. like new york and massachusetts.

that kind of makes sense, it's easier for this contagion to spread in places with big dense populations, rural residents tend to be older and there's generally less access to hospitals. that means coronavirus is not just a problem in the so-called blue states. but what should be done? reid wilson joins us to discuss it, he's a national correspondent for the hill. good evening. >> hi joshua, how are you. >> i'm good, i'm seeing all these reporters i know. why do rural areas have infection rates growing faster than the urban areas? but what's up with the rate? >> this is something we see common with viruses like the flu, they tend to land in big cities with hub airports. and then they spread in those big cities that are less connected to rural areas than they are to themselves to each other. there are connections between every community in america, eventually the virus will spread

from a big city to a smaller rural area. now these rural areas that have seen fewer cases, they've been locked down just as much as we have, in big cities like washington, d.c., where i'm sitting, but they haven't seen as many cases, now, that concerns a lot of epidemiologists who think that because of that, people are going to be more antsy to get out and maybe disobey some of the stay at home orders that are still in place. and because they haven't seen the cases that we've seen in the big cities, they may be con fensed it's not as big of a -- vin convince -- vin convinc -- convinces that it's not a big threat as people in urban america have come to believe it is. there haven't been the cases, so when they do show up the demographics suggest rural americans are going to be more at risk than people in urban areas. they're older with more likely to have underlying conditions and there's less access to health care. that's a strike 1, strike 2, strike three, recipe for disaster.

>> we talked about the political impact of these states being states that voted for donald trump in 2016. there's also the financial impact. you wrote a piece recently that talked about the financial abyss that many states are faces. -- facing. and they were already facing budget problems before. if you talk about pension liabilities, we could do an hour on that. in states, cities and counties. we know about the spread. that bill will come due no matter what. what about arguments like mitch mcconnell arguing that this is just blue states asking for bailouts. the facts don't really seem to bear that out. >> no and as a matter of fact those high tax blue states like california, like new york, washington state, new jersey, connecticut, they give a lot more money to the federal government than they get back in terms of their tax revenues, it is the smaller states, the mississippi kentucky, mitch mcconnell's home state that take a lot more back from the federal government than they contribute in tax revenues alone.

mcconnell is making the argument this is a bailout for blue states. but let me tell you, it's going to be a bailout for every state that's necessary. we're looking at some of these numbers, the earliest projections are showing budget holes in the next couple years that will dwarf what happened in the great recession. calipari cal ri cal california alone saved $16 billion and that money will be gone in the moment it's able to be spent under the law. the fact is, these states are in real financial trouble. the shut down economies are not going to be able to come back fast enough p to save them. we're talking of years of steep deficits and big budget cuts. every state official that i talked to, republican, democrat, all in between they all say they need this money from federal government or we're going to have some tremendous cuts in services at a time when services are going to be most in demand. >> it's going to be tough going for a number of states and will be interesting to see what some of the states do to deal with

those shortfalls. reed wilson of the hill, thanks very much. >> good to see you again. >> coming up, the search for a scapegoat. president trump has blamed the global organization for letting this pandemic run wild. what impact does that have. and how well is the rest of the world fighting covid-19, that's ahead, stay close. it's best we stay apart for a bit, but that doesn't mean you're in this alone. we're automatically refunding our customers a portion of their personal auto premiums. we're also offering flexible payment options for those who've been financially affected by the crisis. we look forward to returning to something that feels a little closer to life as we knew it, but until then you can see how we're here to help at libertymutual.com/covid-19. [ piano playing ] it's a voice on the other end of the phone. a note to say you're on our mind. a willingness to come to you.

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who is to blame for the situation we're in with coronavirus? president trump says it's the w.h.o., the world health organization. new york times columnist

nicholas christof writes, the w.h.o. is just the latest target in the president's search for a scapegoat. he joins us now to discuss it. welcome. >> good to be with you. >> you have described the w.h.o. as bureaucratic and frustrating, while at the same time indispensable, why is that? >> because you need some international actor to coordinate efforts, not only against the coronavirus, but also against female genital mutilation, against polio, against ebola, and that's what the w.h.o. does, so by all means, i think it's fair to criticize w.h.o. for being too close to dictators, for being too bureaucratic. but in the middle of a pandemic, to try to defund it. in the middle of a raging fire to say, the fire department needs new trucks, let's take away their old trucks. it's completely crazy and not

driven by any real factors, but by president trump's annoyance at being criticized himself. and trying to pin the blame on somebody else. >> is there anything you could see the w.h.o. being blamed for. with 24 this pandemic? with 24 this pandemic? with this pandemic? >> their technical people were actually pretty good, they put out their first tweet about the pandemic on january 4th. which is pretty early. on january 14th, they put out an unfortunate statement suggesting there was not community transmission, not person to person transmission, which was clearly a mistake. but by late january, they declared this was a health emergency, and dr. ted gross, the leader of it began to argue and increasingly firm terms this is a health emergency. that all countries should act more forcefully toward.

so president trump should have been listening to w.h.o. rather than trying to denounce them or turning them into a scapegoat. >> thousands of americans would still be alive if the president had listened to the w.h.o.? why is that? frz is there something in particular he missed or ignored? >> in late january when w.h.o. declared this an emergency. by that time, they had also developed an effective test that is being used in scores of countries. if at that time, president trump and the trump administration had decided to make sure everybody is tested, if they had warned everybody about the need to address this seriously, then indeed that would have been the beginning of an aggressive response. closer to what south korea did. instead as you remember, president trump spent most of

february saying that, basically trying to talk up the stock market, saying we only had 15 cases, going down to zero, this is going to go away in the summer. and the tone from w.h.o. was much firmer. i do think that one miscalculation the w.h.o. did was criticized president trump's limit on flights from china. in retrospect i think that was a sound policy choice to try to restrict flights. it's unclear how effective it was, but i think it was worth doing. and w.h.o. is wrong to criticize it. >> this may be presumptousous but i'm guessing that the international community doesn't actually care what donald trump thinks of the w.h.o.? is there more at stake than just losing u.s. funding? he's not convincing other countries to turn on the world health organization, is he? >> no, and indeed other countries are stepping up to try to replace some of that funding. china has stepped up, germany,

you really do need global leadership to address global health threats. historically the u.s. has played that role, both republicans and democrats. george w. bush was central to the fight against aids. he saved 17 million lives through his anti-aids program. pep called pep far. president obama was central to the effort against ebola in west africa. n west africa on this occasion, nobody is really filling that role. president trump is awol, he's not filling that global role. w.h.o. is the closest there is to providing this global coordination. and leadership. when president trump denounces it and defunds it, he in a sense is undermining the only real coordinating force that there is to try to address this pandemic that we are in the middle of and is killing thousands and thousands of people. >> briefly, before i let you go,

you wrote another op ed warning africa could be the next major hotspot for covid-19. they have major gaps in public health, including access to clean water. you're looking ahead to what could come after coronavirus. i don't want to think about what the next pandemic might be. what are you looking at in terms what the next pandemic might be. >> so i think that a lot of commentators may exaggerate the purely medical effect of the coronavirus on poorer countries. largely because poorer countries tend to have youthful populations. only 2% over the age of 65. for example. where the biggest threat is, the indirect threats on coronavirus. on hunger, in particular. livelihoods have been decimated. the average bangladeshian has seen incomes fall 75%. meanwhile, vitamin a distribution. polio vaccinations have been suspended. i'm deeply worried about the health consequences and especially the nutritional consequences.

already there are 5 million children a year who die before the age of 5. and -- many of them from malnutrition. i deeply fear that one consequence of this is going to be a lot more kids going hungry and dying as a consequence. >> nicholas christof of the new york times, thanks for talking with us. >> good to be with you. before we go, immigration and the outbreak. president trump signed a strict order to restrict immigration, why now? an what did impact will it have? ? ? during trying times. today, being on your side means staying home... "nationwide office of customer advocacy." ...but we can still support you and the heroes who are with you. we're giving refunds on auto insurance premiums, assisting customers with financial hardships, and our foundation is contributing millions of dollars to charities helping with covid-19 relief. keeping our promise to be on your side.

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it can be very difficult to become a u.s. citizen and that is harder now after certain immigrants are barred from entering the u.s. for 60 days to protect american jobs that coronavirus has threatened. according to the wash post

there's a larger plan at work between trump's suro gats and steven miller, policy advisor focused on immigration and in that call quote l quote >> let's discuss it with anchor good evening. >> good evening, how are you. >> i'm well. thank you. what do you make of these comments. it's no secret that steven miller favors a restriction on immigration policy. >> i don't think anybody should be surprised about that. part of what happened donald

trump put out a tweet that said he's going to do an executive order to limit all immigration and media falls for it. that's exactly the kind of red meat his base wants to see right now. donald trump is not doing a great job in terms of the pandemic. he says he's going to halt all immigration. joshua, exactly who do we understand is keeping the united states up and running right now? i mean, everybody knows that it is the migrant workers, it is here in new york city. the people who are delivering food. so everybody understands exactly who it is that is keeping this country running, this notion that he's going to halt immigration now to solve it, i'm just -- i keep thinking, are you saying all these people are going to start taking jobs at the poultry processesing plan thes, i don't see it but yes it's a bigger message.

sadly. miller's message is not a new one. what's really sad is if steven miller's own family had waited just a few years they would not have been allowed and they were escaping the slums in belarus' they wouldn't have been able to come in because of anti-jewish refugee sentiment in this country. so i hope he understands the bigger connections. but i think he's closed the borders down mentality has taken over. >> what's the real world impact on this executive order given immigration is basically kind of already shut down by this out break is this more politics or ask this policy have some real teeth? >> you know, i just got back from being on the border, myself joshua and the desperation is real. part of what i'm reporting on is the fact that the united states and mexico have basically

created a situation that is so inhuman right now. where for example kidnapping is a kind of tacit part of the policy. you're waiting in mexico to be accepted as a refugee into the united states, while you're waiting in mexico on the border there's a very strong chance you're going to be kidnapped, the governments know this and allow it. the desperation is real. by the way the borders are closed right now. you know, immigration in the united states has basically come to a zero anyway. the mexican economy has been growing while the united states has been stagnant. remember also that this virus did not travel south to north but rather north to south. but the real impact is more desperation. and people have an image that has been created about i this administration that these are criminals and gang members and traffickers, no, these are refugees that are desperate and have believed the message that

the united states has given, which is we are a country that accepts immigrants, the tired, the poor, that's what this country says it is. but this image of them being criminal, sadly, has made the borders into a place of such desperation but people are stuck. stuck, stuck, stuck in desperation. >> thank you for your report, from npr latina usa thanks for talking with us. >> good night thank you. >> and thank you for making time for us on msnbc. see you back here at 3:00 p.m. eastern, noon pacific, until we meet again, i'm joshua johnson. stay safe, stay sharp. we will get through this. good night. night wow, that's... and now the progressive commercial halftime show, featuring smash mouth. ♪ hey now, you're an all star ♪ get your game on, go play

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thanks for joining us this hour. we've got a great show for you. i would like to introduce you at start to manny khodadadi, emergency nurse in south carolina. >> another shift over, fourth of the week. not too bad. saw one of the patients asked me, do you stay at hotel, go home? i said no, don't go home, stay