♪ ♪ welcome to "kasie d.c." i'm kasie hunt. tonight on the precipice of a million americans with confirmed cases of coronavirus. businesses from georgia to colorado set to reopen with no ramp up in national testing. i'm going to talk to senator cory booker about his home state of new jersey hit hard with cases and whether new relief money will finally flow to millions of small businesses on the brink. plus the president's reckless suggestions of fighting coronavirus from the white house

briefing room. surgeon genrich ardeeral richar joins me. but first the numbers. the united states is now fast approaching 1 million confirmed coronavirus cases. more than 54,000 americans have died. and at the current rate, the pandemic's death toll will surpass that of the vietnam war this week. more than 26 million americans have filed for unemployment over the past five weeks. that means one in six american workers have lost their jobs since this crisis began. and it's against that backdrop that some states are now taking steps to open back up. in georgia, businesses like gyms, bowling alleys, nail salons and barber shops reopened on friday. and tomorrow restaurants and movie theaters will follow suit. in tennessee residents of some parts of the state will be able to sit down for meals in restaurants tomorrow as well. and in colorado, the state's

democratic governor jared polis is defending his plan to start a phased reopening this week. and it's at this inflection point that the president of the united states chose to take the reckless step of floating the idea of injecting disinfectants into the human body as a way to treat the virus. administration officials tell nbc news it was a comment that shocked the president's own aides. and here's task force coordinator dr. deborah birx trying to explain. >> when he gets new information, he likes to talk that through out loud and really have that dialogue. so that's what dialogue he was having. i think he just saw the information at the time immediately before the press conference, and he was still digesting that information. >> it bothers me that this is still in the news cycle because i think we're missing the bigger pieces of what we need to be doing as an american people to continue to protect one another. >> i think i made it very clear in how i interpreted that. i also made it very clear and so

has dr. fauci and everyone associated with the task force in their clarity around, this is not a treatment. >> on that last point, at least, we certainly can all agree. with that i'd like to welcome in my panel. white house reporter for the associated press and msnbc political analyst jonathan lemire. white house bureau chief for the washington post and msnbc political analyst philip rucker and nbc news digital senior white house reporter shannon pettypiece. it's great to have you all on board this evening. phil rucker, let me start with you. we've been reading your tweets through the afternoon as the president has been on a tweet tear of her own through the afternoon. you wrote, the president was convinced to pause the daily coronavirus briefings because advisors concluded his performances were damaging. but instead of adjusting his pandemic messaging, he's still praising himself, attacking reporters and airing grievances just all on twitter. now, this briefing on thursday where he made this

suggestion was the last one where we saw kind of the extensive back and forth. it was curtailed on friday. we haven't heard from him through this weekend. what's your reporting tell you about how we got to this point and whether the president is going to continue keeping to himself? >> yeah, kasie, it's a good question. our reporting at the washington post over the weekend shows that the president and his advisors have made a decision to put a pause on those daily briefings. there may continue to be briefings every day, but they are not likely to feature the president as of now. that's because the president has come to the realization he's been convinced by internal polling data and by the advice of his many advisors inside and outside of the government his daily appearances, those two-hour-long spectacles where he spars with reporters and he presents false and misleading information, that has been politically damaging to him and is hurting him. and it's better for him to stay out of camera view in the oval office where the american people

can't hear what he has to say. but it's notable to note that he has not adjusted his messaging at all. in fact, we've seen all day long today him on a twitter spree going after the press and any number of other topic. and i want to point out one other thing i think is important. my colleague philip and ashley parker did an analysis of the last three weeks of the president's briefing comments. they found in those whole three weeks, he has only spent 4 1/2 minutes talking about the death toll, the lives of those who have been lost, expressing any sort of condolences, there is a remarkable empathy gap from that podium. >> yeah, i saw that story from ashley and philip, your colleagues. i highly recommend it because they really took the time to actually kind of break down all of the things we have been talking about. they've put metrics to that. and shannon pettypiece, one other set of metrics that, you know, the states are finding out the hard way is that this

misinformation has a real potential health toll. larry hogan was on earlier today talking about how their call lines in maryland, people are calling in and asking, should i take bleach to try to fight coronavirus and they're having to kind of push back against this misinformation. he's, of course, a republican governor who has been pretty out front on this. philip kind of walked through the political calculations from the white house, but how damaging is this from a health perspective for americans who are all very scared and frankly looking to their president for answers? >> well, we know -- you mentioned those poison control calls. we remember when he started talking about hydroxychloroquine and some people ordered the chemical version of that that's used in fish tanks and ingested it. so, yes, people are tuning into these looking for information from the president. but when you look at the poll numbers, how many people actually trust the information the president is giving, it was about 28% of people in the most

recent poll that said they really trusted the information that's coming out of the president. it's just really broadened this trust gap. you know, i think to go to phil's point, this was a week when we lost more than 50,000 people. that's where the total reached. what was the president talking about? he came out into the briefing room and gave a presentation about how the sun can kill this virus on surfaces, how disinfectants are effective, even before he got into the jesting injecting disinfectants or putting u.v. light in the human body. he was spending time giving preliminary results from a laboratory study about how this virus responds to sunlight and disinfectant which, okay, maybe theoretically that's useful to people. it's certainly something researchers should explore. but is that really what the most valuable thing is for the president to be talking about at this point? so i think this was really, this press briefing was a culmination

of what his advisors had been telling him are the risks and the problems with doing these briefings and that's why immediately after the following day we saw him curtail it short and send out the at&t saying he was going to take a hiatus from them. >> and, of course, this all comes, jonathan lemire, as we're grappling with what is the best way to move forward here across the country. states are trying to answer the question when is the right time to try and open back up without risking a second devastating wave of infections. and i know you've been doing some reporting on the state of georgia in particular because initially it seemed as though you report the administration told governor -- georgia governor brian kemp they approved of his aggressive plan to allow businesses to reopen. that came just a day before trump held an about face and publicly

publicly bashed that plan. is the president looking to protect himself down the road? >> so, kasie, we've had a lot of mixed messaging from the white house on this very topic. we know the president is eager for the nation to get back to work. of course, there is a limit to the authority the actual president has. we know most decisions lie with the governors and individual states. setting that aside, the president can set a tone from the oval office on pushing states to move forward, particularly those led by republican governors, and that's where we were with georgia, where governor kemp, who is a strong supporter of the president, put forth a very aggressive time line to sort of reopen, to begin this past week which included decidedly nonessential businesses like tattoo parlors and beauty salons and bowling alleys. it came under a lot of criticism from public health officials. but the president and vice-president as we first reported this week were very encouraging of it. that they had talked to him a number of times over the weekend and early in the week, saying that this is a good idea, that he should move forward with

this. even as criticism outside the white house was building towards it. but on mid-week, the coronavirus task force met, dr. fauci, dr. birx and others said they couldn't defend this policy. they knew they were going to be asked about it at briefing. they were not going to be able to in good conscience defend it in terms of the medicine and science. dr. birx was dispatched to talk for the president. she for the moment has his ear more so than dr. fauci. and she was able to move him off of it. he called the governor of georgia, said that he should change things. the governor of georgia was upset, said that he wanted to continue. he asked for another phone call. the president didn't give him one. he simply went to the briefing room and criticized the plan. kasie, as a final point this sets up an uneasy situation for a lot of governors as they look to try and reopen. they don't know if they're going to have support from the president. is he expected to weigh in on each individual state as they each look to reopen? it's setting up sort of more mixed messaging at a time when

the nation really needs the exact opposite. >> and in many ways we're seeing this start to break down along partisan lines. what started as a crisis that the entire country was grappling with that we were all looking to our officials for answers for. now it seems as though we're getting in many cases, with the possible exception now of colorado, which has a democratic governor, but you're seeing red states more eager to open more quickly. you're seeing on the floor of congress republicans not wearing masks, many of them, where as almost all democrats had masks on when they voted. phil rucker, i kind of want to talk a little bit about the broad lens through which all of this is unfolding. and mark leibovich wrote about it. in the fractured political environment, the president has shown particular zest for identifying symbols that reveal

exacerbating cultural divisions. whether he should be trumpeting an untested malarial drug from the white house briefing room have fast become identifiers what team you're on, looming sickness and mass death are no exception. the reflex to unite during a period of collective grief feels like another casualty of the current moment. you know, i have to say i feel like this was the way that i experienced this period. initially as we were look at this, everyone on the same team trying to fight a common enemy in this virus. and that has rapidly disintegrated as this president has used the briefing podium over and over and over again to kind of take the posture that he has. is that something his aides are considering when they're trying to make these decisions? do they see that part of it as damaging in this context, in a way that they might not otherwise? or is it politics as usual? >> you know, kasie, it's certainly something white house officials are aware of. but with this president, there

is nothing that is not political and not personal, and that includes a pandemic that affects every citizen of the globe. but he has an us versus them attitude about it. his mind-set is you're either on my team or you're not. and that's why you see him going after some of these democratic governors, playing games about which state can get resources based on whether their governors were nice to him or praised him or were deferential in the ways he expected. it's also one of the reasons why you see him making the mainstream media an enemy in all of this, sparring with reporters day after day in the briefing room, tweeting attacks at news organizations, including this afternoon, by the way, fox news, which has been very favorable in its coverage of the president, but not favorable enough in his estimation. and so he's really politicizing this moment in american history when it's a moment when i think, you know, some people would expect to see a president trying to bring the whole country together.

>> and, shannon pettypiece, to that point in terms of how -- it's easy to forget sometimes that this is an election year. 2020, joe biden has been out -- further out of the public eye than the president because he hasn't been doing these televised briefings to millions of people. but on the other hand, this was a week when we saw some pretty difficult poll numbers for the president. how much, according to your reporting, is that playing into the white house's thinking or the president's thinking in terms of how he's handling these things? >> well, i mean, i certainly know it's playing into his advisors' thinking and the advice they give him. it's always difficult to know what is going on in his head and motivating him. among republican strategists, among people close to the campaign, they are very aware of the poll numbers. they say they're not necessarily catastrophic for him yet because they have seen his poll numbers go lower and come back up. think back to when his poll numbers were actually really

good, like when in gallop, he hit his highest level ever. that was after his oval office address to the nation, talking about the seriousness of this, talking about bringing the country together, uniting people in this national stay-at-home effort. and then as soon as he started deviating from that with these press briefings and free-wheeling attacking the media, attacking the michigan governor, getting back into a back and forth with governor cuomo, that's when the numbers started tick, tick, ticking down. he only has one mode, though. when he switches into this u unifier presidential mode, it only lasts a day or two. his advisors know they can't change that. the big question now is where do we go from here because these press briefings were a big outlet for him. it was a way for him to, quote-unquote, get around the mainstream media. they started replacing the campaign rallies. i'm told he's going to look for other types of media engagements he could do.

i don't know if that means more fox news or oan interviews, if they're going to try to get him out of the white house more. i'm told they are looking for ways to do that, but they don't have anything clear yet as to exactly what would be the appropriate thing to do other than a westpoint commencement address. so it's going to be a big question mark. what is going to substitute these and how he gets his message out because this looks like the situation we're going to be in for weeks, if not months from here. >> well, i will believe that he will stop these briefings when i actually see it. and i am glad that you mention that westpoint address, he's trying to go and do that. they're trying to scramble to get permission to bring these cadets all back to westpoint where they're going to have to quarantine and go through all of this just to give him that platform is pretty remarkable. phil rucker, jonathan lemire, shannon petty pest, thank you all very much for your time tonight. it's great to see you. it has been a little over a month since the majority of american companies suspended operations or made drastic changes, and now they're desperate to get back to business as usual.

but the question remains, is it safe enough to do so? let's take boeing just as an example, because of the significant reduction in air travel, the company is facing a huge hit in 2020. so this week it brought back roughly 27,000 of its employees across washington state. and despite many new safety protocols put in place, some workers are really worried about what might happen. nbc's business correspondent jo ling kent joins me live. jo, it's always great to have you on the show. walk us through the thinking behind this move that boeing has made. >> reporter: hey, kasie, absolutely right. 27,000 boeing workers went back to work this week, and the idea is after only a few weeks of shutdown, boeing wants to get back to work, back to producing planes. and so the idea here is to institute some new measures. they are going to have staggered shifts. they have social distancing with markers on the floor. hand washing stations. increased sanitization. some wellness checks ahead of

every single shift. what's also interesting is boeing is going to be issuing ppe, the masks and the gear if people do work a little bit closer together. the c.e.o. of boeing commercial airlines had this to say about it, saying, this phased approach ensures we have a reliable supply base. our personal protective equipment is readily available. and we have all the necessary safety measures in place to resume essential work for our customers. now, the pressure for this company to get going again is very high. if you just look at march, we know that 300 airplane orders were canceled. that's a very big hit. now, if an employee, when they are back at work now, does test positive, boeing says that they will be instituting contact tracing to help those around them -- that person, make sure that they are staying healthy. but we have to remind you that the washington state stay-at-home order does not expire until may 4th. so boeing is going back to work

with 27,000 workers and they're using this critical infrastructure national security exemption in order to do that. but this comes after, in the seattle area, over 140 workers have tested positive for covid-19 at boeing in washington state. that's according to the seattle times, kasie. >> a lot, a lot at stake here. and, of course, a lot of companies across america are going to be watching boeing carefully to see how this goes as we all will, of course. jo ling kent, thank you very much. it's always great to have you. you've been doing great work. keep it up. we're just getting started here tonight. we're going to talk to former governor mitch daniels about the pressure to reopen states as the economies are suffering. plus former surgeon general, richard carmona. we are nowhere where we need to be over testing. an official forced out over safety of a drug the president continues to push. i'll talk to veteran affairs

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xfinity mobile. there is growing concern about the v.a. department's use of the drug hydroxychloroquine to treat veterans sick with the coronavirus. a preliminary study of 368 veterans hospitalized with covid-19 was released this week, and nbc news reports, quote, researchers concluded that there was a greater prevalence of

death among those who took the drug rather than those who only received standard care. now, veteran advocates are demanding answers about how this trial even came about. joining me now is former v.a. secretary dr. david shulkin. he is also the former president and c.e.o. of beth israel medical center, and author of the book "it shouldn't be this hard to serve your country." mr. secretary, thanks very much for being on the program tonight. let me just start right there. how did this trial come to be inside the v.a.? do you think it was ethical to conduct it or are you sympathetic to concerns of people who say this was not the way to go about it? >> well, this was a retrospective study. this means that the researchers took a look at the results after the patients were already treated. it's the largest study of its type, though, so that's why this is so important. and the findings appear to be pretty significant and concerning. and so when you put this in conjunction where we found that

those that were treated with the hydroxychloroquine had higher mortality rate and higher rates of going on ventilators, and you now take a look at the study out of brazil that had to be stopped early because of concerns about cardiac effects and mortality, this really should give us reason to believe that hydroxychloroquine, in my opinion, should not be used outside of a full randomized clinical trial so we can actually get results of a study that's done properly on the large enough scale so that we can scientifically validate it. but this is no drug to be experimenting on patients with at this point. >> and what role do you think that president trump played in this drug being widely used to the point where, as you say, you can go back and study its effects in so many americans? >> everybody has a theory or

hypothesis about what might work, and certainly when you do that from the pulpit of the white house, people pay attention to you. we just saw that recently. i'm a doctor, i'm used to patients coming in having googled their own condition and coming up with ideas. sometimes they're good, sometimes they're horrible crazy ideas. and we want information that is being distributed to the american public that's evidence based, that makes sense, that's safe. we don't want this to be a google search. and so, therefore, we don't want people going out and prematurely risking their own lives and putting themselves and other people at risk just because it may be a good idea because you have a hunch. that's what science is about. that's why you do research. that's why you do it the right way to avoid this type of horror. >> it's a good point, and i think, you know, almost everyone watching can relate to the idea of feeling ill, trying to figure out what's going on with yourself, trying to turn to the

information sources you have available and then not necessarily showing up with all of the right information. i haven't asked you yet to respond to what the president did on thursday, which was to suggest that taking bleach or disinfectants internally might help. we've seen reports from poison control lines, that people are calling and asking if this is something they should do. what's your response to the president throwing that out there, so to speak, in that briefing? >> well, i've been in the position having been in the cabinet and led lots of organizations. you have to know that your words matter, and that people listen to you. and particularly when you're doing it as the president of the united states. so there is a certain responsibility that you have to give information that you know is valid and not just throw ideas out there. and so it's not surprising that we're seeing people who have taken that and have actually, unfortunately, gone and acted upon that. so i think that this is an

important lesson that we all have to understand. the country wants answers. the country is scared and fearful. and it's really important when you're in a position of authority to use that pulpit responsibly. >> speaking of the pulpit, one of the things we've learned that the president wants to do is address cadets at westpoint, and this would require the military to waive the overall guidance, the restrictions on travel for military personnel in light of the pandemic to sort of require cadets to come from all over the country back to westpoint. they're still kind of working out the logistics of this. they would have to be quickly tested and quarantined for 14 days. what's the wisdom of the president doing this if these are the consequence potentially for our cadets? >> our primary concern has to be the health and safety of our cadets and of our military. and what we know about this virus is that it doesn't spare young people.

just take a look at the uss roosevelt now where 840 of our sailors are infected with coronavirus. unfortunately, we've already seen a death out of the uss "roosevelt." we have to make sure when we do something, we're not putting our young people who have volunteered and serving our country, like our cadets who are about to go on to join the military, are going to do. and so this westpoint conference before graduation is june 13. we don't know whether it's going to be safe. that would be a thousand people traveling from all parts of the country, many of them by air. it's not just a graduation ceremony where you can use distancing. where are they going to be eating? how are they going to be sharing rooms together? so i do have some concern whether this is premature to be putting them at risk and potentially family and friends

come along at risk as well. so i think we need to be cautious and see where we are as before we should proceed with something like this. >> all right. secretary david shulkin, thank you very much for all of that. a small piece of good news. we are just learning that the usns "comfort" is going to be leaving new york later this month because the hospitals there are currently able to handle that load. so a small piece of good news on an otherwise continuing to be difficult period of time. we know that we can't count on a vaccine until 2021 at the earliest. that's the warning from a university president trying to prepare his students anxious about returning to campus this fall. mitch daniels, the former governor of indiana, joins me next. i just love hitting the open road and telling people

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welcome back. the covid-19 virus is going to remain a fact of life this autumn. natural immunity which has been slowed by the shutdown will not yet have fully developed. no vaccine can be counted on until 2021 at the soonest. joining me now is the man who wrote those words to tens of

thousands of his students, faculty, staff and family members. the former governor of indiana and current president of purdue university, mitch daniels. welcome to the program, sir. it's always great to have you. let me start right there. this is a lot to communicate. it's very direct at a time when i think people have been hesitant to talk about how long these consequence could be with us. what is your thinking about what your students need to be prepared for into the next school year and beyond? >> first of all, kasie, we believe we owe it to the tens of thousands of students who are telling us they want to come to purdue or return to purdue and pursue their education this fall. we had record applications and somewhat to our surprise, record acceptance of our offers to come to purdue. so we know that if we're going to do that under conditions of safety and preparedness, going to take a lot of changes.

and we need every day between now and when school starts in order to make those changes if, in fact, we can devise them. >> so, what is your perspective on how to balance these two competing challenges? obviously public health and safety and well-being being at the forefront of everybody's mind. on the other hand, you are pretty pro business governor. now you have to try and grapple with this in a way that obviously it's to a certain extent a business and educational institution that needs to continue to survive, as well as students who are very anxious to continue their educations. what's the right balance, do you think, for the state of indiana? do you think the state's leaders are getting it right right now? >> i think they've done what they had to do and others felt they did, take a maximum approach early on, protect the

health care system, so forth. so no second guessing on that part. let me say this has nothing to do with business. purdue university will be here even if we were unable to open this fall. this is about our students and their futures, and enabling them to continue pursuing them in the way they want to do. you know, let me make a point that i made in the letter. we're in a little different situation than, let's say, boeing that you just reported on. indiana, where purdue is, the 50th youngest in the country. the median is 21.5. 82% of our on campus community is under 35. and the data are telling us more loudly than anything else, that young people like that are essentially no lethal risk. our challenge really will be, if we do come back, to protect our faculty, our staff and those with vulnerable comorbidities.

and that will take a lot of changes and that's why we want to begin the process of thinking about them and perhaps moving toward them now. >> it's a very good point obviously. we've seen some instances of younger people being affected, but your point about the broader data is well taken. from a national perspective, there's been some significant tension between the president and governors, also between the congress and governor states, localities looking at major budgetary shortfalls. they're having a hard time paying their cops, firefighters if this continues. the senate majority leader mitch mcconnell saying that maybe bankruptcy is an answer for some states. that's angered a lot of state leaders. what do you say to the majority leader, to congress as they grapple with whether to send aid to your state of indiana? should congress be doing that?

>> it's not for me to answer. i've been away from elected politics or politics of any kind now for eight years. i will just say that i think that we're witnessing a validation of the virtues of our federal system. this terrible phenomenon is very different where you are sitting, where i'm sitting, so many other places in the country. and i think the flexibility that governors and local officials have to deal with the situation as they find it is real important. with regard to the federal money, you know, i think that some replenishment, certainly of the expenditures directly consequent to this bad problem that we're dealing with is in order. i think you want to be very careful. this is printed money, after all. the students on our campus are going to be burdened with this

through their adult lives. and so we ought to be careful, make sure we're not bailing out states from preexisting problems that they created for themselves. >> all right. mitch daniels, thank you very much for your time, sir. i'm a big 10 girl michigan fan myself. it's nice at the very least to have another midwesterner on the program. we appreciate your time tonight. >> thank you for having me. >> when we return, all kinds, all kinds of treatments for coronavirus are being tested and promoted these days. coming up next, i'm going to talk to a researcher who is looking at stem cell from umbilical cords for possible answers. answers. is critical to everyone's health, there is one thing we can all do together: complete the 2020 census. your responses are critical to plan for the next 10 years of health care, infrastructure, and education. let's make a difference, together, by taking a few minutes to go online to 2020census.gov.

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this is hal's heart. it's been broken. and put back together. this is also hal's heart. and his relief, knowing he's covered by blue cross blue shield. and this is our promise, with over 80 years of healthcare expertise: to be here for you now. and always. this is medicare from blue cross blue shield. this is the benefit of blue. social distancing may be helping to stop the spread of coronavirus, but it can't be eradicated until we develop a vaccine. and in the meantime, those infected with covid-19 are left with treatments still unproven in their effectiveness.

the fda is looking at reports of serious heart rhythm problems in coronavirus patients treated with hydroxychloroquine, and the world health organization accidentally leaked some disappointing findings connected to the use of the experimental drug recommend dmdesivir. joining me is the doctor of the diabetes research institute and cell transplant center at the university of miami miller school of medicine. they began using stem cell treatment on covid-19 patients this week. doctor, thank you so much for being here. can you just walk through -- this is an experimental treatment, perhaps not familiar to a lot of people. what is it that you're trying in these covid patients and have you gotten anything promising so far? >> yes, particularly we started using and working with umbilical cord derived stem cells from many years ago.

i directed the research institute at the university of miami and the first trial we did in collaboration with china we used to stop regressing immune attack that occurs in diabetes, in type 1 diabetes. this has been used in many immune disease condition. when covid exploded, we immediately communicate with our collaborateers internationally and said, have you tried to use this? they have been using them with some remarkable results initially, but this uncontrolled trial. if you wish anecdotal information, we thought it's critically important to do randomized perspective trial like you've been discussing before for hydroxychloroquine. it's important in this phase. people can try, but before someone can make any claim, we need to have a very solid scientific randomized perspective trial. and this is what the food and

drug administration just allow us to go forward the university of miami. and we just started this week this trial in collaboration with many institutions in the united states, europe and asia. so it's an international team of university creators. we have stanford to hackensack medical center, georgetown medical institution that are willing to participate and do similar trials and find out what the results will be. this is not a trial that requires years. it is something we'll know in months if there is a successor not. >> yeah, i was just going to ask you about that because i was reading a little about your research before we came on the air. it seems the anecdotal data you've been talking about, information we've been getting from china, from italy and other places seem to suggest this therapy might be something that would work within a matter of days for these patients. i mean, what is the timetable in

your being able to determine whether or not this works? i mean, is this a treatment that could be ready potentially by summer? or where do you think it stands? >> i think would be a question of month, two months to three months we should have clear indication. these cells, if you inject intravenously, it has to go naturally. 95% of them are in the line. it's like if you inject an army that is technology to target the inflammation, the side effect in the line due to covid-severe cases. so the cells have both antimicrobial activity. they counteract the system, they counteract inflammation and they promote tissue repair and regeneration. it's like used in many disease we have trials going. it seems like an ideal -- to

target this. one umbilical cord could create 10,000 doses. after a baby is born, you can create doses. it should prove successful. >> all right, doctor, we will be watching your progress very closely as you guys continue to try and find treatments for this terrible disease. thank you so much for your time tonight. when we continue, the remarkable changes in congress and at 8:00 we're going to introduce you to two women doing the best they can to keep the funeral home they run in harlem going. doing the best they can to keep each other going. doing the best they can to keep their families going. they are quite remarkable. i think you're going to be moved and inspired by their grit and their grace. you spend less and get way more. so you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one.

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♪ ♪ open. remember having that feeling for the first time? the first day you opened. the first day you had a customer, the first day you taught a class, had a client, a patient, a session. open... remember the night before you opened? who could ever sleep? open... but there's a different question we are being asked now. are you going to remain open? even when your doors are closed? open.

that's how we show who we are. and there's another way to be open, to pull together - or push, depending on the door. and we are making it work and we will continue to make it work together. because open we stand. as someone who normally spend most of their time in the halls of the capitol, it is stunning to see congress operate day-to-day in the age of coronavirus. in normal times, speaker nancy pelosi is usually swarmed by

reporters as she enters the capitol. this week, obviously, everybody kept their distance. many opting to wear masks and calling out those who fail to do so with a stunning partisan split between democrats two mostly wore them and the many republicans who didn't. >> it's obviously not a sign of bravery not to wear a mask. it's a sign of irresponsibility towards other people. because when we wear a mask, we're protecting them. when they don't wear a mask, they're not protecting us. >> the scenes this week unfolding because congress still can't vote remotely even with safety concerns at top of mind. >> it's not my health that i'm putting at risk. it's the health of the airline workers. it's the health of my colleagues. it's the health of staff. the health of my family and folks back home when i travel to washington. >> we've seen some members of congress get sick, although, they have mostly recovered. but many are facing or some i

should say are facing a deeply personal toll, senator elizabeth warren is mourning the death of her eldest brother who lost his battle to the virus earlier this week. during thursday's house debate, congresswoman maxine waters devoted her relief bill to her dying sister. >> i'm going to take a moment to deadcase indicate this legislation to my dear sister who is dying in a hospital in st. louis, missouri right now infected by the coronavirus. >> we are sending our condolences to both of their families and, of course, to all of you and those who are suffering during this crisis. in our next hour, former surgeon general richard carmona intelligence committee member joachim castro talk to me about the biden campaign. plus, my conversation with senator corey booker. congress acts. but will billions of dollars find it into the hands of small

businesses on the brink of closing for good? and a moment that has brought out the best in people. including one of the camera operators here at kasie d.c.. and this week, look out for nbc nightly news kids edition here to inform and inspire our younger viewers. new episodes every tuesday and thursday at 4:00 p.m. on nbc news.com youtube or wherever you stream. another hour, kasie d.c. coming up next. , kasie d.c. coming up next. technologies advisor. me too.

me too. and if you're a small business, we're with you. standing by you every step of the way. bye bye. we're returning $2 billion dollars to our auto policyholders through may 31st. because now, more than ever, being a good neighbor means everything. like a good neighbor, state farm is there.

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. welcome back to kasie d.c.. 93 days ago, the first case of coronavirus was reported here in the united states. it is as likely we will hit our millionth confirmed case in a week to come. states from california to kansas to virginia saw their biggest 24 increases in recent days. there are continuing concerns about the food supply. in nebraska, for instance, some farmers are euthanizing the hogs they can't sell and can no longer afford to keep feeding. i will talk to joachim castro his home state of texas and getting people to work. can democrats keep pace with donald trump with polls in pennsylvania, michigan and florida. i will talk to that. the first case on friday, there

the a rush to try to get back to normal there i'm also going to confess, i had a hair trim yesterday with kind of a special deal. yeah. friends of ours. you know this person, but i'm not going to mention any names. she got her hair dress tore come in and open up her barber shop. the guy gave me a pretty good trim. i don't have much to work w. it looks much better. because i wanted to look good on the laura ingram show. that was the key point. >> okay. it is easy, of course to see that why with 26 million people out of work why small business owners are desperate to reopen. it's a open question if the country will ever be able to test enough people to make sure that it is safe to do so. new york is seeing a dramatic increase in its testing this week as deaths decline and the naval hospital ship declines. rural populations, georgia, tennessee and colorado are starting to re-open.

absent a break through, there's not going to be a national ramp-up in testing. >> but at the same time we have to realize that we have to have a break through innovation from testing. we have to be able to detect antigen rather than constantly trying to detect the actual live virus or the viral particles, itself. and to really move into antigen testing. and i know corporation and diagnostics are working on that now. we have to have a break through this rna testing will carry us certainly through the spring and summer. but we need to have a huge technology break through and we're working on that at the same time. >> joining me now is democratic senator corey booker of new jersey. senator. it's always great to have you on the program. thank you for being here tonight. let me start with where dr. birx left off there. she is talking anti-body testing and senate leader chuck schumer out today with a release

expressing some concerns about these anti-body tests and how they might be unrolled if people are essentially going online potentially ordering them on the internet, among other things. there are a lot of fraught ethical questions about anti-body passports and things like that. we are learning the governor of your state is planning to tomorrow to rom out a plan to reopen. where do you think your state stands in terms of readiness for that and what role do these anti-body tests play? >> well, look, first of all, thank you for having me on again. and we are in a monumental crisis. it's global. we are losing people in our military conflict. we should will having a national world war ii-like mobilization to have the testing, the tracing and all that we need to get our country going on a pathway out of this. but right now, we just don't have that. we do not have the level of testing that we need. it's going up, obviously, as you said in new york and new jersey.

but our governor understands that. he knows that we will have to have testing and tracing to a greater degree than we have right now and we need to continue to ride this curve down a little bit more. because we still have a remarkably high level of hospitalizations and unfortunately, deaths in the state of new jersey. >> one of the things, of course, that you are grappling with in the senate that your state is grappling with is the incredible financial stress that this has put everybody under and i know your governor has joined with other governors in the region to ask for congress to send money to states and localities and there is something that you guy versus put off until the next bill, mitch mcconnell has been out there saying that he thinks perhaps bankruptcy may be a way for some states and localities to deal with this. what's your response? how should congress be dispensing money to the states and should there be any limits on how they can use the money that you guys send them?

>> yeah. well, this the outrageous in the sense that when hurricanes have hit, when fires and floods, we don't tell the states that are affected, go bankrupt. don't worry about it. no, we stand up. i voted on many help and supports to states hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. we have our nation and especially regions like new york and new jersey, who are hit the hardest right now going through horrible, horrible realities, affecting their state budgets in serious ways. if we can muster billions and billions of dollars to bail out our largest corporations, to save those jobs, why would we put states in a situation where they're going to have to lay off police, firefighters, emt, garbage collectors, because we're hanging them out to dry. those folks are essential not expendable. it is absolutely unacceptable that in this crisis, when you have the governors association, republicans and democrats asking for resources for the federal

government to hang the states out there and put them in a situation that they're going to have to cut services, critical services at a time of a pandemic. that is unacceptable to me and mitch mcconnell is dead wrong. >> good point taken. circumstance do you think, though, that at the end of the day mitch mcconnell's point of view is going to win out here? or do you think that there will be consensus among republican and democratic senators and the administration that this money is needed? we're starting to hear those rumblings, you know, they have been kind of mia for quite some time. you are suddenly hearing people start to talk about the deficit and concerns around those things. do you think that that's going to ultimately, are they going to win the day on this? or do you think you and senator menendez and the bill with senator cassidy in louisiana can actually make it through? >> reporter: well, first of all, let's not let the hip pock ricci

over -- hypocrisy, the deficit he inherited, the massive tax cut went to the wealthiest individual blowing a trillion dollar hole in our country that could be using those resources right now. i don't want to hear a deficit inpockcracy. the reality is like world war ii, we racked up a crisis. lives are on the lines, well being, livelihood. this is the time to inject resources into our states. yeah, i am seeing. you see republicans in red states, governors saying the same thing that you hear from us. it shouldn't interest a red or blue thing. this right now is an american thing. the next should be doing more than just bailing out the states. as i said before, we need to mobile ieltz our country to get to the level -- we should set the national, the global standard when it comes to setting up testing, tracing, pursuing therapeutics and getting a cure for this. we're the united states of america. we can show the world how to get

out of this. but right now we have a federal government that's pulling back from its responsibilities, not even doing things like opening up the obamacare enrollment period to let more americans get health insurance. there is a role of leadership. we're seeing a lack of that. i think governors standing together, senators from impacted states that in a larger negotiation, we can win resources from our state. at least i will be up on that hill fighting it out trying to make sure it happens. >> very quickly, before i let you go, sir, we've obviously rightly focused on coronavirus. but joe biden is still, of course, running for president. this is an election year. there have been conversations bubbling up about who perhaps he might select. as his vice presidential running mate. he had said it's going to be a woman. it puts you out of the running. stacy abrams was out front on several shows suggesting she would be somebody that might be willing to step into that role. do you think stacy abrams would be a good pick for the vice

president? what's your advice on who he should choose? >> i don't think stacy abrams would be a good pick. she is an amazing, more incredible people i've ever had a chance to work with. there are other incredible people out there, kamela harris-at-rin cortez masto. amy klobuchar. i can go through the incredible women that i have the privilege in my life of working with. elizabeth warren, i can go on and on and on. so the great thing about joe bind, he has a tremendous, incredibly talented pool to draw from and i'm just really psyched about this ticket that we have coming for the democratic party and, frankly, up and down the tickets. i think a lot of americans watching the president of the united states, usually at a time of crisis, i've seen it from guiliani in 9/11 and christy in hurricane katrina. their approval ratings go off

the charts. you see that globally with andrea murkel. this guy is up there literally telling us to inject chemicals into our bodies, push drugs that have no scientific backing. this is a failure of leadership. it's costing us as a country dearly. i think we will have a strong case not only for a great president and vice president but to put mitch mcconnell into the back benches as well as congressional and senate races across this country. >> all right. senator corey booker, thank you very much for your time tonight. i hope that at some point soon we will be on our way back far enough to normal that we will at least see each other from the appropriate social distance on capitol hill instead of from our respective homes. thank you very much for the time. we will continue to see real consequences to the president's dangerous comments about injecting disinfectants. >> when the person with the most powerful position on the planet is encouraging people to think about disinfectants, whether it

was serious or not. people listen. so we have seen an increase in numbers of people calling poison control and so i think it's really important that every one of us with a planet form disseminate medically accurate information. >> i think when misinformation comes out or you say something that pops in your head, it does send a wrong message. we had hundreds of calls come into our emergency health line in our health department asking if it was right to ingest clorox or alcohol cleaning products. whether that was going to help them fight the virus so we had to put out that warning to make sure people were not doing something like that, which would kill people. >> those were bipartisan reminders that the president's words matter. just last month, an arizona man died after taking chloroquine. his wife said they heard about it from trump's briefings. >> they have shown encouraging,

very, very encouraging early results and we're going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately and that's where the fda has been so great so i think it's a tremendous, there is tremendous promise based on the results and other tests. >> in fact, just hours after those remarks, the "new york times" found new prescriptions for the drugs soared 46 times the average weekly rate. that amounts to 32,000 prescriptions written for an unproven drug. on friday the fda issued a strong warning not to use the drugs unless medically directed because it can cause heart rhythm issues. for more i am joined by the formerp surgeon general under bush. thank you for being on the program. i'd like to start by getting you to weigh in on the role that the president does play or can play, any leader under these

circumstances plays in providing information to people who are, frankly, scared, concerned, looking to try and do something to protect themselves. how do you view what the president has been -- how the president has been using his bully pulpit here? >> first, thank you for the opportunity to be with you, casey. i'm concerned because to your question, the president is not only the commander-in-chief, he is the communicator in chief. the word need to be chosen very carefully. especially at a time like this when there is a great deal of uncertainty. people are scared. they see the reports every day of people dying. people sick. so we need credible source of information that provide the right information, the transparency to inform the public so that they can make good decisions on behalf of themselves and their family. >> one of the things that we've seen as this has unfolded and

you know this information, misinformation, is likely to play a role here, too, is the disparities in how different communities are affected by this, communities of color, in particular, have seen very difficult outcomes. you i know have looked at this and focused on it, how do you think we should be addressing this as it unfolds? what kind of policies should we be seeing from our states and governments as they try to grapple with these inequalities? >> well, casey, it's a great question. i'll give you a little history. back when i was surgeon general and we were putting together the national response framework, we looked at what are the resources necessary for the nation to come together and what we call surge under an incident command system and how are the different populations going to fit into that. it was readily available -- readily apparent at that time that the indian nations were going to be disadvantaged because of the immense health

disparities that are there. we put that into the national response framework. my colleagues and i recently were looking at mortality and morbidity as it relates to the coronavirus noticed a big spike in african-american deaths in addition to native american deaths and in fact we wrote a paper in the american medical association a week ago pointing that out. because if we don't identify these high rick populations, they'll have a higher death rate, they'll have a higher death rate and more economically burdened. it will cost a lot more as we are trying to use your money wisely. so it's important to be able to identify those populations and make sure that we have policy in place that deals with them specifically because of the high risk that they have. >> sir, you bring up your tenure during george w. bush's presidency. and there has been a lot of

reporting and focus on the fact that he had read a book about pandemics and decided this was something he was going to focus on and try to get the nation ready for. how do you think the work you did set up the trump administration for success or failure here? and how do you grade what they have done so far in attempting to stop the spread of this disease? you know, we have been having a debate about the role the federal government, the president doesn't want to do testing on a national scale, but the plan that you all put in place, that's not necessarily what it called for. right? >> well, that's correct. the plan i'm speaking of is based on the experience after 9/11, also katrina, responding to tsunamis, through help in indonesia. we framed these as all hazarded respond. the document point out any and all hazards the united states may be challenged with. under that umbrella, there are emerging infections, which could be man-made, for instance a

terrorist event or they could be naturally occurring like the coronavirus. well, that infrastructure is there. the challenge, of course, is having the appropriate people in place at the cdc, the national security council that look forward and their only job is to surveil the world on a regular basis to see when any of these things start to occur so we can act very aggressively to ensure it doesn't hit us. because most of the threats we face as a nation don't respect our borders. the fact is they come towards us. the regular flu that we are challenged with every year starts overseas and works its way to us. and, in fact, dr. fauci and his team plan a year in advance for how the vaccine should be made to protect against the respected virus, are to be coming towards us so all of those things were in place. unfortunately, they were dismantled and the cdc budget decreased so that we were not as prepared as we should have been when this started. >> do you think before i let you go, do you think that president

trump has undermined dr. birx and dr. fauci? >> i think all of the scientists in government today are having a tough time working with the president because it appears that science is not valued. they're pretty much having to almost twist themselfs into pretzels to explain why the president said something. my recommendation is and his staff is saying the same thing. be presidential. focus on the bigger issues. focus on the nation. let the doctors talk about the complex science issues. these are very competent people around him. i hope they have the right input and that the president will listen and learn from them so that the effective policy can be promulgated. >> all right. former surgeon general richard carmona, thank you very much for that advice. it sounds like the president's advisers are trying to convince him of what you have laid out here, whether he's going to listen to it. we'll have to see.

just ahead, we will talk to two women who were doing all they can to keep their funeral home up and running and comforting the dozens of families that have come to them in their time of unspeakable need and tragedy. first, congressman joachim castro, why some people may be denied access to relief funds. denied access to relief funds. hope isn't quarantined. first words aren't delayed. caring isn't postponed. courage isn't on hold. and love hasn't stopped. u.s. bank thanks you for keeping all of our spirits strong. we've donated millions to those in need and are always here for our customers and employees.

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the human toll from this virus is greing every day. there with has been a lot of focus on healthcare workers. but there are a lot of workers we don't hear about often, public transit workers, grocery workers. we've lost delivery and postal workers. one of the things i hope is happening now as we all process this grief collectively and as we read these stories is we all redefine who is essential and what essential labor really looks like. there is deepening concern over keeping the nation fed and

keeping the men and women who work next to each other at those plants safe. by some estimates, nearly 10% of beef and 25% of pork production has already been paused nationwide. the world's two largest meat processing companies, tyson foods and jbs have been straining to continue operations while keeping their employees safe. tyson's food, pasco washington facility temporarily halted production and in logansport, indiana, a tyson plant that produces 3 million pounds of pork daily shut down after more than 150 employees and people connected to them tested positive. in the waterloo iowa facility was shut down indefinitely. more than 100 employees at the jvk meat packing plant in greeley, colorado, contractinged it and died. promises of testing all employees before reopening from the company and the white house had not been met. the plant has since reopened and

jbs says they're checking employees temperatures and with symptoms on site. here is a part of a report from our affiliate 9 into u.s. in denv denver. >> reporter: put yourself in and ask yourself if it would be worth losing a family members for a few bucks in your pocket? >> reporter: the answer to that question for crystal rodriguez is no. >> i want all of us to be safe. >> reporter: she and her dad work in a parking plant. one got sick the other didn't. >> he lost 35 pounds and is using a walker for support. >> reporter: he got so sick he had to be put on a ventilator for a week and a half. >> as he got put on the ventilator, they wanted us to go say our good-byes to him, but my mom told them no. >> reporter: he made it out of the hospital alive. now the family is worried about crystal going back to work. >> it scares me and makes me angry the company is willing to open without testing people.

>> reporter: employees have received text messages about going back to work on friday with a $4 an hour pay increase and $600 bonus. >> $4 bonus, i'm sorry, that's not worth my life. >> reporter: crystal hasn't decided if she will go back to work. >> testing will be a part of going back to work. >> reporter: at a press conference, governor polis said he was working with the union and jbs. the union president says otherwise. >> we think they're rushing to open that plant. >> reporter: originally, jbs said they would test all workers. then announce they would test those with symptoms at the door. >> there is a lack of transparency, there is so much confusion. they have been promised testing. that never happened. >> and this brings us to texas. the state that raises more cattle than any other and where the dallas morning news reports that rural clusters seem to center around meat plants. joining me now is democratic

congressman jock imcastro of texas. he serves on the house intelligence committee. thanks, so more for being here. thank you for coming on. let's start with this food processing issue. what is the right balance here? there is, obviously, an overall concern about trying to make sure that americans across the country are able to eat, put food on their tables amid this crisis. but for these workers, this is life and death. what say you about how to strike the right balance here? >> well, i think it's a mat -- matter of public safety that includes the workers. the fact is the meat packing industry, the agriculture industry is one of four or five major industries that would not exist but for immigrant labor and, quite honestly, some of that undocumented immigrant labor. but what that has meant over the years is often workers are either abused or ignored. there were stories and reporting coming out that in many of the meat packing plants, even as of

a few weeks ago, workers were not being given masks or gloves or anyway to stop the spread of the coronavirus. and to the extent that those workers are not being treated right and that they're unsanitary conditions in the meat packing plants, that is also not good for the consumer. so, seen kind of response has to include rigorous testing and protection ppe for the workers. >> is there anything that you in congress and other state and local officials in texas can do in terms of holding the companies accountable for protecting their employees? >> yeah. the congressional hispanic caucus this week is going to be asking for a congressional investigation into exactly what happened at the meat packing plants and also, generally, the labor conditions at these meat packing plants. because we want to make sure whatever positive changes are made are not short term but are, in fact, permanent. so we will be working on that this coming week.

>> there have been some concerns also more broadly about how the money from the paycheck protection program as well as those direct relief checks to americans is being dealed out and the particular -- deowe dol doled out, folks that don't have a security number have been unable to get those payments. what have you been hearing from constituents and from others advocates across the country about access to that money? >> yeah, kasie, that's right. this is one of the biggest injustices about what the congress has done so far in terms of its response to legislative packages. if you are a worker who doesn't have a social security number -- and like i said, there is four or five major industries that rely on immigrant labor, so if are you one of those workers who pays taxes using what's called as an individual tax identification number, not a social security number, you get

no financial assistance, so you don't get the $1,200 or the $500 for dependents, but it gets worse. because if you are somebody or a part of a family that includes a tax filer with an itin number rather than a social security number, the whole family gets nothing or the spouse gets nothing at all. so there was a lawsuit filed on friday in illinois on behalf of an american citizen challenging that fact. so an american sid who is married to an undocumented person gets nothing at all. and the congress has to put its foot down. democrats have to put their foot down and say at the very least, every american citizen, the spouses and those children, deserve financial assistance. >> pretty remarkable. before i let you go, congressman, there has been a looming fight about state and local aid and a overall state of

piece after legislation that congress ideally would be able to come back to washington to write. nancy pelosi has driven a pretty hard bargain so far in working with secretary mnuchin. she is trying to fire up republicans who said she was holding up aid to small businesses, but at the end of the day democrats were able to get money for hospitals and testing into that second bill. do you think that you are going to be able to get what you're demanding this time around? we've heard some noise from mitch mcconnell that they're ready to draw a line in the sand here. there has been reporting they're not happy with how the administration and mnuchin specifically has been working with the house speaker. are you confident congress will send aid to states and localities in another piece of legislation? >> i believe congress should and, ultimately, i believe congress will. part of the reason i believe that, it's not just blue states that are affected. it's not just california, new york or illinois. i would suspect that the

governor of kentucky and the cities in kentucky are going to come to mitch mcconnell at some point and say, listen, we have a big hole in your budget, we need help. the governor of mississippi and other places is going to go to donald trump and say i have a $50 billion shortfall in my budget or whatever it may be. so mitch mcconnell and donald trump would not only have to stick it to democrats at that point but also to their own states and their own voters. and i don't think at the end of the day they're going to do that. >> all right. congressman joachim castro, thank you for your time tonight. it's always great to see you. when we return, just in president trump resumes his news conferences after a 48-hour break. 48-hour break.

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this virus is testing all of us. and it's testing the people on the front lines of this fight most of all. so abbott is getting new tests into their hands, delivering the critical results they need. and until this fight is over, we...will...never...quit. because they never quit. the "new york times" is reporting today on what it calls joe biden's cloistered campaign for president. quote, for a famous back slapper like mr. biden this open-ended captivity tested both his patience and political imagination. he has lamented of being

deprived of human contact. still, as the president continues to eat up most of the oxygen, fox news polls out this week showed the former vice president with 8-points advantages in pennsylvania and michigan and with a narrow lead in florida as well. joining me now is former obama campaign manager msnbc political analyst david pluff. thanks for coming on. it's always good for having you. the former vice president also there is a report in the washington post is quite enjoying the podcast he is doing, having you know democratic friends, former rivals come through. but there is as they point out in the "time's" a pretty challenging period to be the non-incumbent challenger. but at the same time, the president seems to be doing damage to himself that is being reflected in some of these numbers. what's your sort of take on thousand vice president is running this campaign and where

it stand, considering it is so far out of the headlines every day? >> well, thanks for having me on, first of all, not all visibility is good visibility. so i think it's hard to argue these briefings and apparently donald trump can't help himself but be back tomorrow are not helping him. you know, vice president biden is not a governor. he's not a mayor. he's not a president. so he doesn't have direct response capabilities. i do think, though, you can get tempted to look at some of these polls, donald trump's approval rating saying everything is going great. so let's just rope h. a-dope our way to the presidency. that generally doesn't work. i think they have to find ways to be more magic over time. they will end up speaking more and more to the democratic party of president obama back when he was senator. obama took on that role in '08 in the financial crisis. i think it would be great to have a trump reacting more to biden. i think biden does a decent job of reacting to trump. i think there are ways that trump has to respond to you.

the big thing is prepare for what the campaign is going to look like. that's challenging. this may be an all virtual campaign until november. maybe we can get back to doing door knocking and rallies. that's a challenge. at the end of the day, it's not quality over quantity. i would make sure your shots count and democrats i don't think should be overly concerned about trump's dominating the oxygen as you say, i think he is polluteing it for himself. >> do you foresee there being potentially tension between what republicans are willing to do in the face of this virus versus democrats? i mean, we are already seeing, for example, a lot of republicans weren't wearing masks on capitol hill. the president made noise of wanting to get back on the campaign trail to have rallies. we are seeing red states quicker to open up. there is that notable exception of what's going on in california with the democratic governor. where democrats have been more cautious, wearing masks, respecting those social distancing measures. is biden going to come under

pressure to start doing some of these traditional campaign things, if the president is willing to you know throw caution to the wind and do it for himself? >> i assume what vice president biden is doing is what his officials are saying. no, there are great examples, larry hogan in maryland and mike dewine in ohio are being quite cautious extremely well. so that's always the danger. is and listen, there is no doubt that when you go back to where we were just 60 days ago, the reason we've had so many guests. the reason our economy is so weak, you can pin this on trump. downplaying this. so he downplayed it on the front end. we weren't as prepared as we needed to. that sent a terrible message to people. now on the back end here, or we may not be on the back end, but as people begin to re-open, i think it's highly irresponsible. so i don't think so e i don't think the vice president should be behind health officials. once it's clear he can travel and do rallies. he should do that. again you cannot, you know, kind

of halfway run for president. you got to be all in and utilize every tool. one other thing i say, kasie, i think this period of time will help joe biden's campaign, it is strengthening their digital muscles. they have to. it's an all digital xanl. even if we get back to rallies, in-person phone banks this company will be won or lost on people's phones and tablets. i think they will be better off on putting this time on that device. >> yeah. that's an important point. let's talk about older voters for a second here. i think that speaks to the point you were making ability how the president handling this phase of it really plays into it. we're seeing some pretty striking numbers, particularly in florida. a q poll has biden 52 over trump, 42 and the same poll shows 72% of florida voters don't think social distancing rules should be loosened by the

end of april. the baby boomers in florida compared to trump are fought where you should expect them to have been. what does that tell you about the president's campaign and biden's potential strength? >> well, what's been interesting is how quickly that's changed. so that older demographic, even conservatives, fox viewers were told this is all a hoax. they're seeing it in their lives. they know people who are sick. they have been sick. they're seeing businesses not close temporarily, so people have the message now that this is deeply serious and so, but listen, if these numbers were to hold with older voters in the fall, you know, joe biden is going to be our next president. so the question is, is this an artificial bump right now? you know, florida is key. listen, if we win michigan and pennsylvania, we're on the doorstep of the presidency. we don't need a state as beg as florida. to get us over there. florida is close to checkmate for trump. i hope the biden campaign, it's

incredibly expensive. i know that first happened, people resources and a financial resources, it is a checkmate. if joe biden is going to sail into the fall anywhere near these numbers with people over 65, it creates little margin of error for the trump campaign. >> they would be, resource wise they would be so strapped having to fight that hard. thank you so much for your time, as always, my friend, i appreciate you being here. when we return, we will introduce you to a group of female undertakers, trying to help dozens of families in harlem raise their children and keep it together during an unspeakable time. don't go anywhere. unspeakable time don't go anywhere. every box has a mission: to protect everything inside from everything outside. that is where the true glory lies.

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nearly 17,000 people have died in new york city in a matter of weeks and the people who work in the city's funeral homes have been completely overwhelmed caring for the dead and their living relatives left

behind. four female undertakers lead the international funeral celation in harlem. they have been dealing with an overwhelming number of victims that died from covid-19, so many that they have been forced to turn people away as they risk their health and that of their own family. joining us, two of the four pim who run the international funeral and cremation service in harlem. thank you beth for coming on the program tonight and alicia, let me start with you, just walk us through why this period of time has been so personally devastating and difficult for you? we, obviously, are seeing all the horrible numbers. we've seen a lot of the pictures. but for you, these are people that in my understanding you are used to being able to say, yes, we will give you the funeral that you have always wanted and you are still trying to do that for people, but it is just so much harder considering the

sheer scale of what's going on. >> yeah. i think that's why it's so difficult because, typically, we'd like to service our families considering they're grieving and, you know, we want to service them the best way we know how and the way they'd like. so, that's changed these days. we're not able to have viewings due to the social distancing or we're not able to factor in funeral masses. typically, they, you know, the catholics like to go have their services. the muslims like to go to mosque. that's out of the question these days. and a lot of the families that are suffering their loved ones loss, due to covid, a lot are in quarantine. so they're not able to be present for these services. i think the reason we're

overwhelmed is we are servicing families turned down by funeral firms and working with a bunch of women, we're sensitive to these things, right? we want to be able to help everyone and so we're taking on so many funerals that we don't even have the capacity to do so. so i think that's why we're in the situation we're in. >> really remarkable. nicole, let me let you what ein there, too. it is unusual you are so many women. how does that -- when you think about you know going to work every day, how are you guys thinking about it differently in terms of dealing with these families that are in such difficult parts of their lives? >> well, it's very stressful, one, mentally and physically. as alicia said, we do often have to turn away families because we're not able to serve them. because we don't have the capacity. also, from a mental standpoint

with this pandemic, it's scary, you know, because we're the first responders as well, just like doctors and nurses. we're going into nursing homes. we're going into hospitals. we're even doing house removals. we all have children and we're afraid, god forbid, if we get exposed, we can affect our families and children and loved ones. so it's risky. and it's tough. it's really, really tough right now. >> awill alicia, do you have th personal protective equipment, are you able to find the things that you need in. >> well, thank god i have been pretty equipped. i have been in the business 14 years. so i made a lot of relationships with a lot of morgue attendants

and people in the business. i'm also a lady attendants of quite a few funeral homes. even they have provided me with n-95s and made sure they're restocked on gloves and every time i would go in, alicia, here, i got more masks. the morgue attendants, i'd do removals, they'd give me more masks. so i've had a few respirators in some orders we placed on a monthly basis, they were out of stock. thank god i ordered respirators for me and the girls. i'm the one doing embalmings, i like to have things in-house. yes, when we do these removals and we deal with covid patients and house calls, obviously, our masks are, we have to dispose of them. we try to keep them around for two-to-three times and wear them no more than that, balls we don't know exactly what the

virus is and how long it stays on these materials, so, god is good and we have been pretty equipped. i can't speak for the future, but for right now, we have been okay, thank god. >> yeah, that's a real blessin. nicole, i was reading in the story about the work you've been doing that you are often texting with these families in real-time trying to be there for them in a place. this is a very lonely disease. what's that like every day? >> it's tough. just today i had a family call because they're pretty much at the cut-off time for the hospital to hold their loved one. and out of desperation, she cried to us and she begged. she said, please, you know, i don't want my father to go to be buried in an unmarked grave. can you help me? it's tough when we just don't

have the capacity. we're trying to move as fast as we can. we're trying to accommodate every family as best as possible. but at times, you know, we tell them, hey, give us a call back within a couple of days. we'll see what we can do, based on the capacity that we have in our funeral home. it's heartbreaking because i can't imagine, you know, losing a loved one due to this pandemic, and you're calling 50 other funeral homes around new york or new jersey and they can't accommodate you. no one can accommodate you, and it's just something we've never seen before. it's just really heartbreaking and breaks my heart every time. she literally cried today and there was really not much i could do but tell her, can you give us a call back, you know, in a couple of days once we have capacity to accommodate her and her loved ones. it's devastating. >> it has to be so incredibly devastating. and i know that the families

that you are able to help have to be so grateful for all of the work and the risk that you are taking on to help them in this horrible time. alicia narvaez, nicole warren, i appreciate your time tonight, appreciate the conversation. when we return, 92 years in the making that would not be denied a pandemic. to our auto policyholders through may 31st. because now, more than ever, being a good neighbor means everything. like a good neighbor, state farm is there.

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it has been a pretty daunting week, so we want to close tonight with a moment 92 years in the making. ♪ happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you ♪ ♪ happy birthday, dear mama, happy birthday to you ♪ ♪ >> woo-hoo! >> lilly, the grandmother in law of "kasie d.c.'s" own steady camera operator justin amash celebrated her 92nd birthday on wednesday with her whole family. she was a refugee in world war ii and later settled in washington, d.c. and she hasn't been able to leave her apartment since february. but seeing the family gather and sing happy birthday absolutely

made her day, and it made all of ours as well. it's one of those moments, so many moments when we're all struggling not to cry, but that was a really, really good one. happy birthday. that's going to do it for us tonight on "kasie d.c." we're going to be back with you next week from 7:00 to 9:00 eastern. coming up lawrence o'donnell is going to talk to atlanta mayor. for now good night from me from washington. don't you dare. i don't think so! [ sighs ] it's okay, big fella. we're gonna get through this together. [ baseball bat cracks ] nice rip, robbie. ♪ raaah! when you bundle home and auto insurance through progressive, you get more than just a big discount. i'm gonna need you to leave. you get relentless protection. [ baseball bat cracks ]

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