hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. as the nation battles the pandemic on two fronts, with close to 1 million infections and 55,000 people dead across this country and an uncertain future in each of the nation's governors is essentially going it at alone for reopening before widespread testing is available. president trump's fighting to regain his credibility even amongst some republicans after suggesting that scientists explore injecting chemical disinfectants into people's bodies. trump now fighting to shift the narrative to one of economic rebuilding as his term of pandemic spokesperson has been panned. the white house plans to shift its coronavirus messaging toward boosting the economy and highlighting "success stories" of businesses, reduces its public emphasis on health

statistics the coronavirus task force, and the doctors who've become household names, deborah birx and anthony fauci "will continue but take a backseat to the forward-looking. define trump's coronavirus response -- whiplash over today's white house briefing. on his schedule this morning, off his schedule this afternoon, then back on again. a presidential news conference now scheduled to start about an hour from now. this latest battle of upheaval follows public humiliation leaving a mark on trump. political standing and personal standing. sounding very mad on twitter. "the new york times" writing this, even by the turbulent standards of this president, his musings on virus remedies have lended with uncommon force,

drawing widespread condemnation as dangerous to the health of americans and inspiring a near-useful alarm that many of his past remarks whether offensive or fear-mongering or simply untrue, did not. the president's failure noted widely by republicans. the times also reports, quote, president trump's erratic handling of the coronavirus outbreak, the worsening economy and the cascade of ominous public and private polling have republicans increasingly nervous that they are at risk of lossing the presidency and the senate if mr. trump does not put the nation on a radically change. perhaps most significantly mr. trump's single best advantage as an incumbent. phil rucker joins us, vin gupta

and former top state department official steve. ph phil, friday, take us through everything that has transpired since that statement on the part of this president that will go down as sort as significant as good people on both sides in charlottesville, grabbing women in the bleep, his suggestion that people might inject dis disinfectant to clean their lungs. >> politically damaging that moment was for the president, look at how it's taken on three full days for the administration to come up with an explanation for what happened. at first, the white house accused media outlets of misrepresenting the president's comments even though they were

plain to the naked eye on videotape. then the president claimed he was trying to be sarcastic, but no trace of sarcasm in the exchange. and then we heard from dr. birx over the weekend say this is just how the president likes to have these discussions out loud. he was talking to the department of home land security official and this is his normal process of discussing new information. makes him such a smart guy, the issue is this all played out on live television before tens of millions of americans, many of whom who tune into these briefings to get raw information, facts, guidance, statistics, you know, really instruction from washington, from their leaders, about how to manage this pandemic and the president has used that platform to float theories and praise himself.

>> let me show you dr. gupta what a republican governor had to say this weekend about why phil rucker is talking about matters. >> people listen to these press conferences. they listen when the governor holds a press conditions and they certainly pay attention when the president of the united states is standing there giving a press conference about something as serious as this worldwide pandemic. i think when misinformation comes out or you just say something that pops in your head it does send a wrong message and we had hundreds of calls coming into our emergency hot line at our health department asking if it was right to ingest colloroxr alcohol cleaning products. we had to put out that warning to make sure that people weren't doing something like that which would kill people to do that.

>> dr. gupta. >> he's right, governor hogan's right. "the new york times" had a great piece of reporting just late last week saying, prescriptions of hiydroxychloroquine shot up 0 times right after the president used his bully pulpit saying maybe we should have been prescribing hydroxychloroquine in the absence of definitive data. people listen to the president. in an ideal world we could all listen to the president as a trustwort trustworthy person of information. this hasn't been the case. the consequence dr. birx and dr. fauci spend more time on defense than they do talking about things that really matter, like for example the more we learn about coronavirus the more we're realizing that people don't clear the virus in their

nostrils for 21 days. for 21 days and we're still talking about 14 days for self-isolation, why about we hearing more about that push and pull. should we be thinking 21 days? saliva testing. there's compelling data out of yale, corroborating data out of rutgers saying saliva is better than the nasal swab that we're lacking. we needed to be hearing about these scientific studies. what's right, what's wrong. unfortunately, dr. birx spends a lot of time on defense. >> dr. gupta, let me give you the floor then, tell us more about the science, what else do we know about covid that we didn't know just a few weeks ago? >> a few things. first of all, there's all this hemming and hauing and w.h.o.

has been talking about new guidelines on antibody testing. let's be clear, we don't know enough about antibody testing. all the different tests there are a hundred different tests, some of which have been vetted and others haven't been vetted. it doesn't allow us to make a comment on whether or not you have a positive test that might mean you're protected from reinfection. we don't know that. people are making grand statements both ways. we need dr. birx to spend more time talking about that, not about disinfectant that the president is talking about. saliva testing is possibly the way to mask testing. let's see if we can do self-collection at home. dr. fauci isn't able to talk about that. these are things that we should be talking about. 21-day quarantine, i'm just citing the evidence. 21 days at minimum for people to clear the virus.

what does that mean? should impact our s.o.p.? we need guidance. >> rick, i have 37 questions for you, i think the bottom line is, you need a podcast, somebody does, rick, take up this theme of displacement. the president says things that are dangerous in the words of maryland governor hogan. all weekend you saw the great reporting in the washington post and "the new york times" about the political free fall basically what the president is in because of those comments. as dr. gupta is saying it also has -- every action has a reaction and the reaction is, we have now pushed out the exact form where people are going for the kind of hope, the kind of information, the kind of education about what the conversations they should be having with their physicians if they're not well. almost being displaced by the dysfunction from this white house.

>> yes, i mean, not to go too far in the future but someday i think historians will look back at amazement we hadn't presidents that weren't scientists. not only is he scientific illiterate about ingesting clorox into the body, he also said wind turbine causes cancer. he -- so it's the person who's words should be golden, who should be test eed more than anything else, the dissemior the of disinformation. so many people called in about whether they should use clorox or something like that, i think those of us who are doing this all the time forget that so many

americans just can't believe that the president of the united states is a pathological liar who's ignorant of almost everything that he's talking about they just can't believe it. that's what we see over and over. that's why it's so dangerous. just listening to dr. gupta a minute ago, it's a breath of fresh air, what he said about 21 days was news to people like me who have been watching presidential news conferences, why is that? that's a mistake that's a problem with what they're doing. i don't know what the solution is. let the scientists talk. or the president be a scientist. >> i'm riveted by your dog's wagging tail. one more question for you, i'm going to show this clip of phil rucker to you. the president's weekend tweets. i have had this lingering fear

for years that we are not blunt enough in our assessments of him. let's watch phil rucker and let's talk about what the president tweeted about people like phil rucker over the weekend. >> you're the president and people tuning into these briefings they want to get information and guidance and want to know what to do -- >> phil, i'm the president and you're fake news. you know what i'll say to you, i know you well, because i know the guy -- i see what he writes. he's a total faker. are you ready? are you ready? are you ready? it's just a suggestion from a brilliant lab, perhaps a brilliant man, he's talking about sun, he's talking about heat. you see the numbers. i'm just here to parentaln't. i'm here to present ideas because we want ideas to get rid of this thing. if heat is good and sunlight is good that's a great thing as far

as i'm concerned. >> he's talking about -- the president there seems to start to recognize that maybe he stepped in it, i'm just talking about ideas. no, why don't you look at inj t injecting disinfectants into the body, to quote, clean the lungs. the president called phil rucker "fake news." he seemed to completely spiral downward at that moment in weekend tweets. i know you tweeted about them. what do you think that sort of fore shadows about this president and the future of his relationships with the press, seeming to me to go to an everybody darker place. >> first of all, i want to say how much i admire phil rucker in the wake of being criticized by the president. the press is critical of him for valid reasons.

if attacks the press people won't take it seriously, he's said it over and over. the thing that's so awful now, 50,000 americans are dead. 55,000 americans are dead. you're presiding over that as the president of the united states and what you're choosing to do and exposed to the world is that you're taking the task journalists for criticizeding you and you're getting it wrong, they didn't win nobel prize, they won pulitzer prizes. can you imagine fdr during world war ii? it's just unimaginable. >> it certainly is. phil rucker, of course, anything you want to share what that moment was like i'd love to hear it? >> nicolle, i was just doing my

job and i actually got a lot of e-mails from people who follow my reporting and follow your show on msnbc, why didn't you yell pack at him, if i was there i would try to punch him in the face. i hope people understand, the reasons we try to stay cool in the moment we're not trying to give him the fight he wants our job is to ask professional questions and that's why i stayed so collected and keep a straight face there. >> keeping a straight face seems like the hard ets part. it does bring us to a really important point and a really important development that was reported out by your newspaper and by "the new york times" and other news organizations that performance on thursday have harmed this president politically, gravely, you've got some reporting where republicans are worried about not only losing the white house but

losing the senate. talk about that, phil rucker. >> that's exactly right, nicolle. this has been building by the way for some time. the president for weeks has been doing these daily news conferences where he's putting out false information and sparring with the press. spending little time expressing condolences or empathy for the tens of thousands of people who losing their lives or the thousands of people who have lost their jobs. public polling we have seen with our eyes that show a real decline for this president in his approval ratings in a lot of key states that he needs to win. he's far behind joe biden in michigan and in pennsylvania. behind joe biden in florida. talking over the weekend to some trump allies and advisers

there's one part the coalition that that's very top concern for republicans, seniors, voters over the age of 65. they're turning against the president. one of the reasons he was convinced over the weekend to not do those briefings and try to take a backseat. >> well, dr. gupta, i'm sure part of the reason is that it's very dangerous to those seniors or any vulnerable population if they make the wrong choice, lot of people are going to make some of the most important decisions of their lives about whether to get on airplanes, about whether to go back to work, drop their kids off at school, whether to visit their parents, in the next four to eight weeks, certainly before the next campaign and just this weekend, you had deborah birx saying, social distancing is going to be with us for a very long time and vice president mike pence said it's all over by memorial day.

what's true? >> i think, i 100% agree with dr. birx. people want to have it at honest. you hear humidity and heat and the president referenced heat to be a panacea, turns out the increase in case detection is highest -- the highest slope, highest amount of cases over time in southern states where it's hottest and most humid and this study is going to be published shortly. it doesn't look like sun and heat is the panacea that we think of. so americans just want truth. it's hard to take at the very least they know how to prepare. most important for our elderly. they immediate to know what's

real and not real. thank you for giving us the platform to say truth. >> no, we thank you. we're in your debt to bring our viewers the facts. we'll be grateful for a very long time. dr. vin gupta, phil rucker, rick stengel, thank you all for spending some time with us. our next guest says the trump briefings are a toxic fog over the country. and trump's surprise move over the weekend to speak at west point's graduation, forcing cadets back on campus to get tested and quarantine all for a presidential photo-op. plus a handful of states are trying to reopen today. for many businesses and residents it's a confusing mix of rules, guidance and in some cases, fear, all those stories coming up.

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i want them to be appreciative. i don't want them to say things that aren't true. i want them to be appreciative. we have done great job. we did all of this work. but when you read the phony stories nobody -- nobody acknowledges this. >> the president there using his time in the briefing room to complain. about his media coverage, about governors who. weren't gracious enough. little mention of the 55,000 americans who have died from this pandemic and a washington postanalysis of his time at the podium, he spoke for 13 hours. in that time, quote, he spent 4 1/2 minutes expressing condolences for coronavirus victims. i had to read it three times.

twice as much time promoting an unproven antima lair yal drug that was the object of a food and drug administration warning friday. "the new york times" counted every word he's uttered. 260,000 of them, enough to fill a 700-page book. "the new york times" calculates, by the far the most recurring utterances from mr. trump in the briefings are self-congratulations. roughly 600 of them, which are often predicated on exaggerations and falsehoods. he does credit others for their work but he also blames others. mr. trump's attempt to display empathy or appeal to national unity amount to only a quarter of the number of times he complimented himself or a top member of his team. joining our conversation, steve

schmi schmidt. steve schmidt it's not surprising but it's still stunning. >> of course, it's stunning. but the whole country has seen president trump's unveiling from the president to this country who really is. he's a person who lacks all of the qualities that you would want to see in a leader in this type of moment of profound crisis. possesses literally none of those. that's what those stories point out, it shows a daily barrage of self- self-pity. or blame game. of self-praise, but this constant inability to rise to meet the moment both at a policy level, response level, but also as a moral leader, being able to

talk to the entire country doesn't have it within him. every day he stands on that podium, he shrinks. it's having an adverse political consequence for him. that's why you'll see less of him at these briefings in the weeks ahead. >> you know, it also reveals the weakness of a white house staff when a president fails over and over and over again it reveals the man but it also reveals the weakness of the people around him to stage any sort of intervention or any sort of effort to save him from himself. the last block we talked about new reporting in the "the new york times" and the washington post about the grave political standing in which he finds himself. two articles filled of quotes from republican allies who are worried not only his re-election but republicans losing control of the senate, where do you

think we finds ourselves in the weakness of this white house staff? >> well the white house staff is basically who the president is. you know, it falls -- you know, it not lows who's the president is at the top, he's the leader and this is what they choose to do, follow the leader. reporting how his staff wants him to do less of these briefings. it's not going to happen. i'm very skeptical, maybe for a few weeks we don't see him as much. but he can't help himself, nicolle. he needs this. this feeds in this ego he has. it allows him to be the center of attention. he spends time watching tv and tweeting. yes, this is political suicide because, you know, you have this president who's talking about his ratings and bragging about ratings.

here's what happen, people tune in and what do they see? they see a delusional, an erratic commander in chief standing up there giving two hours of personal grievances that he has and he is not at all talking about the people who are hurting, like you said, nicolle, in that washington post 13 hour, 3 weeks of these press conferences, these briefings, he spent less than five minutes talking about the people who -- talking about the people who lost someone in a crisis, not offering any condolences really, only for less than five minutes. but here's the thing, he's not going to stop, more than 55,000 people are dead. more than 26 million people are unemployed and it's all about him. again, it's not about the people who are hurting, why, because this feeds into his ego and this gives him oxygen and that's who donald trump is, he's very, very small man.

>> steve schmidt, i want to ask you, just to take a broader look at the landscape, i mean, donald trump has essentially dealt himself out of this leadership moment, i mean, 23% of the american people trust you, that means more than half of your base isn't turning to you for advice. when you look at the landscape, what gives you hope? what leaders have -- maybe not the obvious ones, i think we all watched the cuomo briefings. i live in new york, i watch to see when and if my son is ever going back to school. what's giving you hope. >> excellent leadership from the three republican governors, dewine, baker in massachusetts, you look at larry hogan in

maryland, you look at the democratic governor in the state of new jersey, governor murphy. governor newsom in california, so you see a whole assemblage of political leadership that are smart, confident, able, serious people and they're the type of people that we're going to need to see much more of as a country as we look to recover from this and that recovery period is going to take a long time but i think that what people seen, nicolle, they have seen examples of leadership and trump's example of antileadership in this moment of crisis. so i think that the question will turn now over these next weeks, over the next months, who is it to have the capacity to lead us out of this? i think trump has buried himself pretty deeply in the pit with

regard to, we're going to follow that guy out of this mess, he made this so much worse but for the incompetence and the ineptitude and he's not getting it, not having any capacities to run the government. it's an epic failure, it's understandable because he's a reality tv show host who has no experience, no knowledge about anything he put on a performance, he won narrowly and in a moment of tragedy we had the worst person we could possibly could have sitting behind the resolute desk. >> steve and korine are sticking with me. after the break, it's kinds of a tradition in donald trump's administration, he makes an off-hand comment and his aides scramble to make it reality.

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according to "the new york times" up until a white house briefing last week, donald trump's commencement speech at west point was still tbd. when trump saw mike pence go to air force academy's commencement, an e. move up for upp upperclassmen, he made announcement -- he was going to west point. now apparently, thanks to a spur of moment decision, 1,000 cadets across the country will be summoned back to west point. which is by the way just north of hard-hit new york city. let's bring in medal of honor recipient and military analyst, jack jacobs who teaches at west point. i wanted to talk to you since i saw this story. i guess my question is, and i understand the chain of command, he's the commander in chief, was

there not anyone you're potentially endangering the health of what is truly america's finest, our future. >> i'm sure some of them said so. he's the commander in chief. he issued the order. two choices -- follow the order or you resign. i haven't seen any resignations yet. it may very well be maybe it's still to be determined but for now i think the plans are, he's going to come to west point on june 13th and give the commencement address. >> so these cadets, take me through what that means for them. >> well, you know, you always have to sksh the old question -- who benefits from all this? not the cadets. you can be graduated from any college or university without having to go to a commencement,

indeed, i didn't want to go to my own commencement. but you can give diplomas and commissions to the cadets without them having to come all the way back to west point. classes are continuing online, after this week, another week, the cad ets will have to come back from wherever they are, back to west point, be tested, then be quarantined, all at the enormous risk to these kids and to the staff and faculty who are going to have to deal with it all. the cadets don't benefit. the only benefits that accrues that most people i have spoken to, the president gives them an opportunity to get on a podium and read a speech. don't forget, he's sort of quarantined himself from the 5:00 briefing every day on covid. he's out of the public view.

he doesn't like to be out of the public view. he is one opportunity for him to get up and get in front of a camera as long as he doesn't stray from the speech that's written for him. so, the cadets don't benefit from this necessarily but he certainly does. >> talk more broadly about the impact on the military of the pandemic. >> well, it's -- it's quite substantial. permanent changes at stations by and large have been cancelled. temporary duty assignments including those to schooling, military and civilian schooling has also been postponed or canceled. more significantly, over the longer term, a joint and combined training exercises with our allies in northeast asia and the baltic area in europe, they've been postponed or cancelled.

really important for us to make we have operability, we can run our forces with allies. we're not doing that. the biggest impact has been -- on the navy. don't forget, you got a large number of young people crammed into boats and if you lose some of them to the virus because they've become sick and they have to be moved and they're particularly in critical military operational occupational specialties that means that ship -- that facility can't be operated at all. in the army it's a little bit easier, you can spread people out but you can't do it on a ship. by and large, the impact has been very, very substantial on american forces and to our national security. but don't forget, it's been -- it's been critical to our not just to our allies but to our adversaries as well. these are dangerous times with countries like china being

expansive in an environment we're not necessarily able to defend ourselves as the way we were able to before, nicolle. >> steve schmidt, it strikes me we're asking yet again, so much, of our military and military families, we always put the burden on both, and this move to me from the outside, maybe i'm missing something, seems to really display some reckless disregard for their safety and the safety and well-being of their families, thoughts? >> it does, of course. these young men and women will soon be commissioned into the united states army. future officer corps, future generals and leaders of the u.s. military, so, this is always a big event and the president does a rotation talking at the

commencement ceremonies. i think the extraordinary circumstances to bring all of these cadets, soon to be lieutenants back, to quarantine them, to put them in harm's way, on other than the political reasons, doesn't justify. what we're seeing from the president, all shattering of all norms with regard to politicalization of the military. frequent use of the phrase, my military, he's personalizing him. military review in washington d.c. which is just abnormal in a democracy. the type of parade you see in north korea, china and russia, you don't see them in democracies. so, it's not surprising to see donald trump doing any of this. just unfortunate for those cadets. another example of his failed leadership with regard to this

whole crisis. politics all the time. nothing -- nothing ever supersedes his self-interest. >> steve schmidt sticking around. colonel jack jacobs, thank you, my friend. after the break, in the middle of a public health crisis, some states are already starting to reopen the disconnect between what health experts recommend and what governors are doing. that's next. it's best we stay apart for a bit,

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on a scale of one to ten, how nervous are you about your state reopening this week? >> well, maybe a seven. but i understand also i would be nervous really at any time, until there's a vaccine or a proven treatment, you know, i'm not going to be comfortable about this transition, i also sort of recognize that and i recognize however on the other hand we can't shelter in place forever. there's a date out there. we're trying to make the best of this. >> that was mayor of oklahoma city whose state one of several that have partially reopened. patchwork effort, though. the lack of any federal mandate. what we should note, these reopenings aren't following the guidelines put out by donald trump's coronavirus task force. that task force says state should not even consider reopening until they see a

14-day decline in cases. steve and karine are still here. here's what seems reasonable, if we have now had, you know, takeout pizza and takeout food as deemed safe, it seems like one of the things that i think texas governor abbott is looking at, pickup for some retail things, you can go to home depot and pick up a rake or you could pick up, you know, an ironing board. that seems reasonable. tattoo parlors x gyms, face to face restaurants, i'm confused why that's on any city or state's phase one. is it lack of clarity or do you think this overzealous to do what donald trump wanted to do with the easter opening and flip the light switch. >> look, it's because we don't have true leadership at the federal government. instead of having one unified

strategy we have different states doing different things and it's incredibly dangerous and i heard you talk about this earlier, nicolle, the one thing we need before we can even start up the economy again, which is the one thing that donald trump has failed on the most is testing. we cannot open up the government without testing. back in ma, donald trump had promised that there was going to 23 million tests that would have been done by tend of the march. over the weekend, he was trying to brag about 5 million and it's late april. and so this is not how it's going to work. it's not going to help. more people are going to get sick if this is the route that these different states are taking. and here's another thing, donald trump from day one could have put in the defense production act, and that would have sped up testing, and he didn't do it, he didn't do it.

why? none of us know. but he didn't do it. and so now, what do we have? we have a situation where we're still unsafe, we're not in a position where everybody's actually safe and you have these different states opening up. >> karine, with your political strategist hat, i mean, it would save lives, saving lives is what everyone wants, when lives starting being saved and few people spreading the virus, they get that 14-day slope, declines, that sends the signal it's safe to open up. in his reasoning, where the president's rational for not using the defense production act to make massive amounts of the products needed for massive testing? >> i have no idea, nicolle. i wish i could understand. i always had the theory, this is

a moment that he could step up and show he's saving lives, he cares about people. it's not in him. this is what we have learned. we talked about this on your show many times, nicolle. donald trump is not ready to be he was never ready to be president he came in here as steve said, as this guy who was on a reality tv show. this is his whole thing. now what we have is a desperate man who is fighting to keep his seat in a re-election and he thinks -- all he thinks about is himself and h economy. that's the signal he's been sending to a lot of these republican governors is we have to get back because of the economy and it's not about the people. it's about himself and his own re-election. his political health. this is what this is about for donald trump. >> you know, the steve, you and i all have young kids and one of the buzz words in parenting is

emotional intelligence. this might be awkward but stay with me. chris christie has what it would take to reopen the country. it's not just steps and metrics but the abilities to call on the nation to take some risks, to be a bit afraid. assignments like it's written for a president like the last one we had, president obama or the one before that, president bush or president clinton. this is not a president who has the emotional intelligence to ask people to do something difficult because there's not a single example of this president doing anything difficult. with that stipulated, what happens to us? >> well this is the single -- this is the singular failure of this crisis communications is that when you communicate in a crisis you have to be able to do three things. first thing you have to do is communicate to people reliably. to tell them what the exacts are. to explain what the truth is. to talk to them directly about

the state of affairs and any hardship to come. only when you do that, can you then ask people to sacrifice, to serve, to put their self-interest behind the national interest or something else. then to talk about the inevitability of victory and triumph. he can't do that. every day he gives this dishonest articulation of his self-interest that is opposite of what the reality is going on whether it's with regard to the equipment, functioning of how the loans are working, with regards to case load and so here we are. >> thank you both so much for spending most of the hour with me. i'm gratsful. after the graek, they are calling them pandemic bookends. the story of twin brothers a century apart. that's next. guy a promotion.

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as painful as it can be to mourn the victims of coronavirus, i keep hearing from people that it's also been a source of inspiration. so many incredible life stories from so many extraordinary ordinary people. today we want to tell you about phillip. he was 100 years old. he died of coronavirus last week and irony has found the new york times that wasn't lost on him. a century ago he was born one of two -- he had a twin, samuel, who died as an infantastic during the spanish flu. a family member called them ban pem -- pandemic bookends. he earned two bronze stars. he was there for mayorjor event. when he got back to the state he worked an as electrical foreman

and helped build the world trade center. he had a daughter and six grand children and six great grand children. he aulg carlways carried a hole heart for his lost twin brother and talked of him often. now the two of them are together again. that does it for our hour. thank you for legislate us into your home. we're grateful our coverage continues with chuck todd after a quick break. neutrogena® hydro boost. the #1 hyaluronic acid moisturizer delivers 2x the hydration for supple, bouncy skin. neutrogena®. (vo) what does it mean to be america's most reliable network? right now it means helping those who serve stay connected to their families. they're on the frontlines every day giving the most they can. so verizon wants to give them something back. introducing our best pricing ever. $30 per line for all nurses, teachers, first responders,

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welcome to monday. it's "meet the press daily." i'm in for chuck todd. we are standing by for the president to speak at the rose garden after telling reporters that the white house the releasing a blue print to expand testing. the 5:00 p.m. hour has been the home of the coronavirus