time's the circus and editor and chief of the recount, john heilemann. and washington anchor for bbc world news america caddkatty k. >> and you're actually starting to see, willie, in the media some of the same trump supporters who were calling this a media hoax at the beginning saying the media was exaggerating it, at the same time the president was saying it was 15 cases and very soon would be down to zero. now ofors over a million cases and more people dead than died in vietnam. but you're hearing some of these same people now talk about how it was a mistake for the united states -- the hospitals to prepare for a pandemic. to prepare for the oncoming crush. oh, this has done horrible things for elective surgeries.

and i saw it all yesterday. one buffoon called this the shutdown the worst mistake in american history and maybe in world history. the buffoonery continues, willie, and what's incredible is as one doctor told us, one expert told us, we're in the second inning of a nine-inning game and these fools, i will say, yes, fools, are acting as if this is over. and it's the ninth inning and everybody just overreacted just like they were doing in february and march. they still are not learning their lessons. >> and they're not acknowledging the fact that the reason the numbers aren't as high as they could have been, the reason that the hospitals have not been swamped as they could have been is because of action that was taken, because of stay-at-home orders and because of social distancing. that's not taking my word for it, that's taking dr. anthony

fauci's word for it. that's taking dr. deb before birx' word for it. that's an ignorant take, but i've seen it out there too. even as the u.s. crossed the 1 million mark for confirmed cases of coronavirus yesterday and the death toll from the virus now has surpassed that of the 20-year vietnam war. 58,220 americans were killed during the roughly 20-year war while nearly 59,000 americans have died from covid-19 in just under two months. in terms of confirmed cases, there now are more than 1,018,000 reported across the country. that represents about a third of all the cases in the world. the president was asked about that at an event at the white house yesterday. >> back in late february you predicted that the number of cases would go down to zero. how did we get from your prediction of zero to 1 million? >> well, it will go down to zero

ultimately. and you have to understand when it comes to cases, we do much more testing than anybody else. we're going it show more cases because we're doing much, much more testeding, double anybody else. somebody said if you add everybody else combined, that would be a number. and it will be at the appropriate time, it will be down to zero, like we said. >> joe, i guess we have to stay again, that's not true. we don't have more than the rest of the world combined in terms of test. he was up last night talking about the cases that we have here, the 1 million mark and he said effectively the reason we can tell you about a million cases which, yes, is a big number, is because we've done so much testing, he said. of course on a per capita basis that's absolutely untrue as, again, dr. fauci would tell you and told us again in a television interview yesterday, we have to do better on testing. >> well, and if you look at the testing that's happened around the world and if we had the same per capita testing as some other counts, obviously that 1 million -- that 1 million number

would be much higher. but, again, it's very important to remember the president said yesterday, oh, yes, it will be down to zero. what the president said on february 22nd was we have one person coming in from china, it's all take he care of, nothing to worry about. what the president said in february, what he even said in late february was it's just 11 cases, soon it will be down zero. it's 15 cases, soon it will be down to zero. in march he was telling african-american leaders that it was going to magically go away. this is just going to magically go away. and, again, john heilemann, what is so staggering to me is that some of the same propagandists for donald trump who are echoing his lies, saying that this was just a media generated hoax are the same people now who are saying, wait a second, you know,

this was the worst thing that ever happened. why don't you rush back out? why don't you go back to work? why don't you go back to restaurants? why don't you open your businesses right now? of course the hypocrisy of it all is they're saying this from within the confines of their safe studios, their safe talk radio studios, they're mother's basements where they're blogging these things. and once again, doing things that i think in the if you turl be se future will be putting americans lives at risk. you can be for reopening the government as i am and mika is and a lot of people are, but they're repeating the same mistakes over and over again. and once again they're not using the word hoax, but they're getting there pretty quickly, especially i saw it all over yesterday in trump media, this idea that somehow the hospitals made a terrible mistake preparing for a pandemic when,

in fact, the only reason they weren't completely slammed is because of extraordinarily difficult decisions made by all americans about social distancing. >> right. i mean, look, let's just remember -- i can't believe we have to talk about this. remember what it was like in that period of mid to late march and throughout the month of march when governors in new york, california, and other states were looking at statistical projections by their departments of health that while in the worst case were calamity ous for their health opts and hospital systems. they were unclear. no one had ever done a thing like large scale social zangs or stay-at-home orders. nobody had any idea if people would follow the rules. no one knew what the effect of those rules would be. so governors did what we would beg them to do, what we would

pray for people do, which is prepare for the worst, hope for the best but prepare for the worse. the this is like the conventional wisdom, that's what you're supposed to do. these governors had no idea whether those rules would work or not. they implemented the rules and prepared for the worse. as it turned out, miraculously and great credit to the american people who followed those rules to stave off calamity, we ended up pretty. goode. although 60,000 deaths is pretty bad. the number of deaths of the tote talf the vietnam war is pretty bad. we avoided the worse. but thank god that the governors decided to do what we would -- again, republican or democrat, what you would want if someone in your family was sick. if one of your friends was sick. what would you want the governor in your state do some to prepare for the best? to not have the hospitals ready for the potential of overflow? it's mind boggling how idiotic

these comments are. and not just hypocrital, they are cavalier cavalier and dangerous. for people who have lost someone in this tragedy, it's a slap. face to hear this from the media. and we have big choices to make going forward about how we're going to reopen. about the prospect that in the fall this coronavirus could come back, potentially with the flu. the head of the cdc, the head -- anthony fauci, everybody on donald trump's task force thinks that the virus will be back in the fall. if people listen to what's happened here, we are not going to be prepared for what's going to be a worse version of this pandemic a few months from now. >> that's the problem with donald trump's schizophrenic approach where he puts out guidelines that his doctor's helping put together. and if states would follow those guidelines, i think we'd be in good shape. but he puts out the guidelines one day. >> and then argues them. >> the next day he starts

pushing for people to go back. and he calls the governor of georgia saying, yeah, why don't you open up tomorrow? the governor of georgia announces he's going to open up. then donald trump attacks the governor of georgia for opening up. now he's saying positive things to the governor of texas about opening up. what do you think happens when texans start dying? so it's the inconsistency. and you have, again, these trumpists out there that, again, are -- they think that they, carving out a political position that is going to help them in the future with a conservative base. fighting back, pushing back against doctors, pushing back against nurses, pushing back against health care officials. but, mika, if you look at the polls that are coming out, whether it's the pugh poll, the fox news poll, or of course an npr poll yesterday, mika, the overwhelming majority of

americans support what governors like governor newsom, governor dewine, doing a great job in ohio. another republican governor, governor hogan doing a great job in maryland. governor cuomo, they're supporting what these governors, republican and democratic alike, are doing. >> they're scared. they want leadership. and these polls just crossed this morning, more americans disapprove of president trump's handling of the coronavirus response according to a new npr maris poll just released this morning, 55% of the americans say they disapprove of the president's response to the coronavirus pandemic. that's up six points since last month. 44% approve. over 6 in 10 believe their state's governor is handling the crisis better than president trump. americans also shared their thoughts about which 2020 contender could handle the virus and the economy better. 55% say they would prefer for

joe biden to be handling the coronavirus pandemic. 40% would rather have trump managing the crisis. >> by the way, this in the middle of the greatest crisis since world war ii, joe biden preferred by 15%. of course the reason why, in part, we're going to keep going through this poll, but when joe biden in late january is warning the pandemic's going to get worse and donald trump still in march is just saying it's going to magically go away, that gives you some insight as to why americans know joe biden saw this coming all along and warned people in january about what was going to happen. >> here opinions fall along partisan lines, but it does include 55% of independents who say they would prefer that biden be handling the crisis. and 51% of americans want joe biden handling the economy. 44% say they'd rather it be trump. willie. >> and, willie, that's pretty

remarkable number too if you look at joe biden on the economy, more americans prefer joe biden handling the economy. donald trump's calling card, what he's always bragged about saying this is the difference between him and other republicans or him and democrats, he knows how do things. well, no, actually americans have seen his failures in developing a strong testing regiment, has kept this country closed longer. and if you look at his own doctors, if you look at his own scientists, if you listen to what nurses and medical providers say, they all say -- by the way, ceos are saying it too. we can't reopen our economy until we strengthen our testing. everybody's saying it. ceo from ceos to nurses. and so i think that's partly what you're seeing in those poll numbers that show americans prefer joe biden to donald trump when it comes to handling the economy. >> yeah. and through all the chaos, as

you know, president trump has basically staked his presidency on a strong economy. it's where he always goes when he's in trouble. look at the unemployment numbers, look at the stock market. as those have collapsed over the last couple of months, he no longer can hang his hat on that. and you're seeing some of that in those numbers. in terms of opening up the economy, that same npr poll mika was talking about asks whether it's a good or a bad idea to resume certain normal activities without further testing. 91% of americans say it is a bad idea to allow people to attend sporting events. 85% agree schools should remain closed. 80% think restaurants should not allow customers to dine in. and 65% say it's a bad idea to allow people to return to work without testing, mika. >> well, by the way, mika, 85% think it's a bad idea to reopen schools. what was donald trump doing yesterday? pushing to reopen schools. >> there's such a mixed

messaging. katty kay, in the uk it's very clear and it's interesting that their prime minister has been through this and, perhaps, sort of found the truth of it. it's not a virus that you can play around with. >> yeah, boris johnson went from being a skeptic to some extent about this in early march when he was still bragging about the fact that he was going to shake people's hands, we've played that clip on the program before and then ending up a month later in the icu and now begging the british population to stick with this because he can see the perils of opening up too soon. it'sing in the npr and the pugh poll, even if you request americans if they have lost their jobs do they want to open up the economy precipitously, they still say no by a margin of 4 to 1. they realize the cost of this. and actually there's a really good -- there's a lot that america can learn, because we're a little bit behind the curve

from other countries. germany opened up a week ago last monday. in the space of nine days of having loosened some restrictions, allowing a few more businesses to open, allowing some kids to go to school, their infection rate from the virus has already spiked up again. that's just in the space of eight days. and i think that's a really good lesson for people, about you can start the process of opening up, yeah, and everybody wants to. we're all going crazy. people need to get back to work. but there is this risk that the reinfection rate will go up again and then you end up with more hot spots. i think what governors are really trying to do around the country is get their infection rate so low that we're almost back at the status quo of before this all started so that then they can test and find out where the hot spots are and see what's happening. but we should be looking to other countries that are opening up now to see what experience they have. >> you know, john heilemann, you look at those numbers from this

poll, npr poll matches, pugh poll matches, other polls that have been out that show an overwhelming majority of americans think that their governors are doing the right thing. their governors are being responsible. i'd love to put that poll back up that shows 85% of americans think it's a bad idea, and mark me as one of those americans, even though i'm saying reopen the parks, let people walk on beaches, reopen public spaces, let people socially distance safely, let's start figuring out a way to move towards reopening the economy. but reopening schools, 85% of americans think this is a bad idea. and yet you have donald trump going out suggesting that schools reopen this year. you have the attorney general of the united states of america at the same time donald trump puts out guidelines that he's now -- he's already forgotten the

guidelines he's put out. so these conservatives -- not conservatives, they're idiots. these trumpists who think they're finding a way forward politically by attacking stay-at-home orders, they're the 10%. they're the 15%. they're in the minority. if they think this is how they're going to build the future of the republican party after trump loses this fall, they are badly mistaken. and they can look at any polls, including fox news polls. >> right. i mean, look at -- there are two things to say in those numbers, just to stay focussed on them for a second, right? look at the approval ratings of the governors in the states that have been hardest hit by this virus who have had the most aggressive stay-at-home orders. look at the approval ratings for governor cuomo, for gretchen whitmer, for gavin newsom, jay inslee and others. take florida out for the purpose of this discussion. >> and ohio as well. >> yes.

and ohio. and mike dewine. take the top ten states combination of hardest hit by the virus with stutough stay of home orders. all of those are 60% approval rating. many of them are over 70%. they all have 20 points on where donald trump currently stands in terms of just the basic thing of approve/disapprove. that's point number one. and then your point about the polls about the schools, right, overwhelmingly if you ask parents -- long before this pandemic and you said to a parent, do you agree yes or no with the statement that a school is a petry dish for virus, in general schools are petry dishes. kids are constantly giving each other -- i mean, the story of every fall and fwhirwinter is k play with each other, doing the things kids do, they all come home and give their parents and

siblings, that's the normal thing in american family, every american family understands that the school is a petry dish. so, of course, when you now have things living in the petry dish that can kill you, of course parents are going to be like, i'm really not enjoying homeschooling my kids, it's really difficult for me, we all have cabin fever, yes, all of those things are true. but i do want to send my child into a petry dish where one of the bugs that lives there could kill my kid or kill me? of course you're going to see numbers north of 80% that people are going to be most skeptical of this, of all the things in the economy, i think you will see enduring poll numbers that will have parents most wary about opening up the schools. and so when donald trump says something like he said yesterday, you got to stop and think for a second, you know, what porlls are you looking at, buddy? can anybody on your political team read a poll? i don't want you to govern by poll, but right now some of

these polls are screaming messages if he's worried about his own political future would do dwol immedia do well to heed. >> people want to be safe and they follow the logic here. and then there's the whole issue of the emotional toll that this is taking on the country. yesterday we showed you a new usa today suffolk university poll which showed that joe biden leads trump 57 to 39% on the question of who cares about people like themselves. that number in mind when listening to this next piece of sound, yesterday president trump was asked if he's spoken with the families of anyone who has died in the pandemic other than the family of his one friend that he has mentioned along the way. take a listen. >> you've spoken about your friend who passed away. i was wondering if you've spoken to the families of anyone else who has lost loved ones to covid-19, if there's any particular stories that have

affected you? >> well, i have many people. i've spoken to three, maybe i guess four families unrelated to me. i did, i lost a very good friend. i also lost three other friends, two of whom i didn't know as well but they were friends and people did i business with. probably almost everybody in the room did. and it's a -- it's a bad death. it's not a -- it's a bad thing. it grips on to some people. now, we found out that young people do extraordinary well, that's why i think we can start thinking about schools. but of course we're ending the school season. so, you know, it wouldn't be probably you'd -- you wouldn't be back for too long. i notice where purdue university, a great school and a great state, wants to open and have students come in. i think that's correct. some colleges, i think i saw harvard wants to have students come back in the fall. i would hope that they'd have students. i think that the whole concept of computer learning is wonderful, but it's not

telelearning, but it's not the same thing as being in a classroom and a great college or a college of any kind. college, university, there's nothing -- you can't replace that. so hopefully they're going to be coming back. young people do very well with this horrible scourge, they do very well. so i am going to see you tomorrow and we'll have other things to talk about. we have a lot of interesting things. i don't think we should have a news conference today because this is a news conference in addition, it's a celebration of these incredible people that have done such a good job. and i think we found a couple of stars in this room today. i won't tell you who, but there air couple. this guy right here is the biggest star in the room, right? [ applause ] we'll all agree he's the biggest -- i vote -- i vote for you, okay. great job you've done. and i really appreciate it too. i appreciate you being here. couldn't have done better. >> well, what was the question? >> so the question was about people who died and had you

spoken to any. and he can't do it. he can't -- he just can't do it. he's uncomfortable or it's impossible for him and i'm not sure which is worse. >> or maybe he hasn't spoken -- >> you have an opportunity to speak -- >> to the families. >> -- to the historic number of people, it matches the number of people lost in the vietnam war. you have an opportunity to speak to the loss, the humanity of this, the pain of this, the unbelievable impact it will have on generations. you can't do it. you pivot to schools opening and computers and telelearning and then this guy, wow! i mean, it's -- it's impossible to know somebody who disappoints you more every single day than this president. and, joe, that was -- that was

pathetic. that was really sad that he can't even fain empathy. he can't try fain empathy. he won't do it. >> they tried at the press conference yesterday by having him read a couple of lines which he read very poorly. but, willie, while the president's talking about reopening schools, this is a commander and chief that is forcing west point graduates to fly back from across the country when their concern for their safety on the administrators at west point are concerned about their safety, and the president has said he wants them back so he can deliver a commencement address and actually said he wanted them to be tight. wanted them to be together tight. he doesn't like -- he didn't like the social distancing that they had at the air force academy. again, obviously, stating the obvious here, not a serious man, but a dangerous man when it comes to -- to handling this

pandemic. he's undersold it repeatedly. now he's talking about getting schools back when 85% of americans don't want schools back. and -- and here he is talking about even, you know, forcing cadets to fly back from across the country. many of them right now helping with a pandemic -- with this pandemic response to fly back so they can hear him read a speech. >> yeah. these are the signs those people we were talking about at the top of the show who said that all this stay at home action that we've taken, all this social distancing is the greatest mistake in history and all the other extreme and ridiculous comments, they get signals from donald trump. the signals include not wearing a mask when you go to the mayo clinic if you're in the administration. or talking about coming back for easter or talking about it's fine to have a graduation at west point. so despite the guidelines they put out, those people watch the actions of this president and this white house, but looking at

that question, joe, just imagine again what barack obama, george w. bush, bill clinton, george h.w. bush, ronald reagan, go down the line, what that moment would be like with any other president. >> jimmy carter. >> and jimmy cart, er, go back through history about the speech they might have given and the story they might have told. it reminded me in the briefing room when he barked at alexander what's your message to americans who are scared? and he said my message is you're a terrible reporter to peter alexander. these are difficult phone calls, but politically those are the easiest moments to just be a human, to just be a person, to express some base level of empathy. and as you guys just said, he's simply not capable of it. >> well, a conservative editor told me yesterday this should be so easy. get out -- >> that's the easy part. >> give them the facts, let the doctors speak, mourn with americans, move towards fixing this crisis.

back up the man just is incapable of doing it. and, mika, this is, again, it's an ongoing problem, more people have died in america now of this than died in vietnam. a tragic war that ripped this country apart for a generation because of the 57,000 deaths. this is a president who said it would magically go away in april. this is a president who said that -- that it was one person from china, that are it was going to be down zero. this is a president who said it was 11 people and pretty soon it was going dob doto be down zero it was 15 people, it's going down to zero. again, in january, february, in march still saying it was going to go away in april. and in one day, a single day in april, more americans died of the coronavirus which he said was going to magically go away in april, than died in our

19-year war in afghanistan. >> in two-months' time. >> well, in two-months' time, more people died than died in the korean war combat deaths, more people died than died in vietnam. again, the scale is remarkable. and the fact that trumpists are still the propagandists are still on this kick, some still talking about it being like the flu. some still talking about how this was a mistake. again, they think that they're going to get more clicks. they think that somehow this is the way forward for the republican party. this is a dead end because we're not in the ninth inning of this. we're in the second inning of the ninth inning. we hope, we hope that this summer we've continued to flatten the curve. but here's the thing. katty kay, when we're flattening

the curve, what are we doing? we're delaying the deaths, we're delaying the infections, we're spreading them out over time so hospital capacity will not meltdown. so, these idiots, and i'm sorry, i just have to say, they're idiots. these idiots who continue to push the hoax button don't realize this doesn't magically go away. this will stay with us until there's a vaccine. and let us pray that there's a vaccine sooner rather than later. i pray that for members of my family, i pray that for members of your family, i pray that for every family that have elderly people in their homes or elderly loved ones or who have children with underlying conditions. but -- but bending the curve is just spreading out the number of infections, just spreading out

the number of deaths in a way that the hospitals and society can handle it. >> yeah, i mean, all we're doing when we flatten the curve is protecting now our health systems from a massive onslaught of cases. and the other thing that we're doing is buying our self time, right? and you have to be hoping that our leaders around the world are using that time productively, because as dr. fauci said, it coming back in the fall. and all we can do is now prepare ourselves better so that when it does come back in the fall, our hospitals are better equipped, we know what to do, we've got the right amount of ppe, we have the right number of tests, we can test much more widely. and then really all we're doing is we're waiting. we're waiting for those people, hopefully at oxford university or somewhere else, to come one that vaccine and test it and make sure it's safe. or to come up with some kind of therapeutic who can cure people who do get it. with you there's no magic bullet in flattening the curve, all it

is is a time buy. we are buying time to try to get a therapy, to try to get a vaccine and sort out our health system so when it comes back we're better prepared. >> try to get testing, right. finally. still ahead on "morning joe," nbc news just sat down with one of china's most influential leaders. what he's saying about the spread of the coronavirus and president trump's pledge to hold beijing accountable. we'll go live to china for that. and that segment should give two of our guests later plenty to talk about. two top members from the foreign relations committee, senators chris murphy and chris coons join the discussion. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll beig rht back. my patients i often see them have teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. does it worry me? absolutely.

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i'm just looking at willie's text about my voice. willie, why don't you take the nbc news reporting that the white house has ordered u.s. intelligence agencies to find out whether china and the world

health organization initially hid what they knewbout the deadly coronavirus pandemic. i'll rest it. >> you're powering through like the pro you are, mika. i'll pick it up here. according to an official directly familiar with the matter, last week the nsa and the defense intelligence agency received a specific tasking seeking information about the outbreak's early days. current and former officials familiar with the matter also confirmed that the cia received similar instructions. as part of this tasking, are the intelligence agencies were asked to determine what the w.h.o. knew about two research labs studying coronaviruses in wuhan where the virus was first observed. the move comes as the white house secretary of state mike pompeo and president trump's political allies focus their attention on china's inability to contain the virus shortly after it emaerthd they are nerg not alone. joining us now is janis mackey frayer who recently sat down for

an exclusive interview with china's advice minister. good morning. what'd you find out? >> reporter: well, there are a lot of questions, willie, about what china knew, when it knew it, and allegations that it has withheld information, delayed releasing information, even suppressing whistle-blowers. all of these questions have lingered pretty much since the beginning of the outbreak. it's now when the virus appears to be under control here that china is now shifting tact and launching more of an information controlled offensive to try to shape public opinion, to shape how the world views its response to the virus. not only applauding what it was able to do to get the case numbers down, but also taking issue with weaknesses in other places, in particular the united states. they have come out swinging. it's quite an aggressive and

assertive strategy on the part of foreign affairs officials. we sat down with the executive advice foreign minister chung. he's seen as a rising star within china's government here to put some of these issues to him. mainly whether -- how china views calls for compensation, for accountability, and for an independent investigation. here's what he had to say. >> translator: demands for reparations from china are not reasonable and they have no legal basis. in fact, think there's no difference between such demands and blackmail. the attempts to shift blame to china for some countries or some people's own inadequate responses will find little support and end up nowhere. >> reporter: those inadequate responses are, of course, china's view of how the u.s. has handled the pandemic for americans. when i asked the minister

whether americans could believe the numbers that were coming out of china, he said, yes, 100%. absolutely they can be trusted. and he dismisses that china withheld anything. he believes that china has been transparent, that from the time that the city of wuhan was locked down on the 23rd of february until the middle of march when the u.s. declared its national state of emergency, that there was plenty of information, there was plenty of warning, and more than enough time. here's what he said. >> translator: on january 23rd when wuhan went into lockdown, the united states reported only one confirmed case. but on march 13th when president trump announced the national emergency, the united states reported over 1,600 confirmed cases. there are quite a number of u.s. experts working in the w.h.o. they are aware of what was going on in the world. the u.s. government should be aware of what was going on in the world. but, in this 50-day interval,

what was the u.s. government doing? where have those 50 days gone? >> reporter: the minister is the highest level official yet in beijing to address the pandemic with foreign media. we spent about an hour with him discussing all of the issues, even challenging his position within the foreign ministry and the tweets and social media patterns of some of the embassies and ambassadors that have developed over the past couple of weeks where it's less about promoting what china has done with its mask diplomacy, but taking issue with how other countries have failed. in particular, the united states. there have been constant tweets saying that the u.s. has lacked transparency, that the u.s. is covering up its numbers, and that perhaps it's the u.s. that needs to investigate itself. >> yeah, china obviously desperately trying to deflect blame for a virus that start and

spread originally in their country. the big question, janice, maybe the question is obvious here, why? why did china silence whistle-blowers and suppress information? was it as simple as saving face for their country? why would they not want the world to know that here comes this pandemic headed your way? >> reporter: well, that is the golden question. and the one that has been hanging over china since the beginning of the outbreak. why did they ignore whistle-blowers? not just ignore, but suppress whistle-blowers, publicly condemn them, write them up for police reports. so the -- the official timeline that china whhas since publishe omits any information of whistle-blower information even though weeks later whistleblowers were being hailed here as heroes. it shows how there has been a pattern of china trying to control the information as much as it's been trying to control

the epidemic here. now that the case numbers have begin to dwindle and the economy is showing signs of reopening here, china is now focusing its energy on trying to control the narrative and the global discussion to try and shape how it is that the world sees china so that it can be held up as a model for how it reacted and responded to the pandemic. that the draconian measures that were being criticized before, now something that is being copied by governments around the world. so they are trying to take advantage of the chaos and disarray that may exist in other countries as they're still trying to fight croovid-19 and e that to their diplomatic advantage. >> the chinese government even floated the idea that the united states military created coronavirus somehow. obviously that's not true either. nbc's janis mackey frayer for

us. thanks so much. joe. it really is remarkable. it's as if the chinese government thinks it's like 1957 and we don't know that a doctor in december who tried to warn other doctors that the coronavirus was deadly and could spread like sars and they had to prepare for it, they think the whole world doesn't remember that they actually sent the police after him and said they were going to investigate him for -- let me get the exact words from -- from the chinese government. said they were going to investigate this doctor for making false comments and investigating him for, quote, spreading rumors. katty kay, i'm shocked when donald trump, and i will say on a much smaller level than the chinese, but i'm shocked when donald trump keeps lying about miracle treatments and vaccines

being ready and very soon, keeps lying about this magically going away in april, keeps lying -- but, you know, we know he's lying and he's fact checked immediately. but the same holds true of china on a much larger level. this -- this pandemic that has wrecked the world economy started in china. the chinese threatened to persecute a doctor who ended up dying, who was trying to -- to warn his keegs. and it's as if the chinese thinks that we aren't even created xerox machines yet. we're in the pre xerox machine world. i say that because i remember my political science professor said that soviet union was more afraid of xerox machines than purging missiles because the spread of information was deadly to their regime. you were, of course, right again.

but do the chinese really think that the world is this ignorant? >> you know, it was interesting listening to that interview, wasn't it? because i suspect as much and anything the chinese are speaking to their own populations and they seem to be doing a pretty good job within china of spreading constant misinformation and say it's the americans who are lying about their numbers, it's the americans who are doing a massive cover-up. and that must be for domestic consumption because, as you say, everybody has heard the story of the doctor. he became a celeb very quickly and when he died his picture was all over every television network in the world. there's a lot of suspicion, not just here. the french president, other european nations have raised suspicions about what's happening in china. but you look at the balance of power that has come out of covid for the chinese and you look at how some european countries looking to america for leadership on this and not finding it are now starting to

modify what they say about china and some of their criticisms of china, even the european union came up with a report and then watered down its criticism china because they don't at this moment want to annoy beijing. they're looking at a world where the balance of power is up for play and they're thinking, look, we have america that doesn't look in great shape, we can't really afford to be that critical of beijing or as critical as we might feel we want it to be. >> john, it's been interesting to listen to the president's progression and his evolution and how he's dealt with china over the last couple of months as it relates to coronavirus. we talked about those president's daily briefs yesterday that the "washington post" got its hands on. there was a clear message from the intel community to the president which is that china is manipulating data, china is suppressing information. even during those early months the president went out publicly and on twitter and would say president xi is doing a great job. not so much anymore. i think he's realized and found that china is the place, if he's looking to deflect some of the

blame for what's happening here, china is the place to go. >> right. i mean, willie, look, it's very -- the simple explanation for this, right? back in january, february, into march when trump was still obviously in denial about the severity of this pandemic, what would be a pandemic, he was still fixated on the economy. you made the comment earlier in the show that the economy was going to be his ace in the hole in terms of re-election. his re-election campaign. and he was looking down the like, he was trying to do a trade deal with xi. he wanted to stay on the good side of the chinese because he wanted to get the deal done to boost the economy even further. now it's clear to him not only is the pandemic huge, but any hope for a trade deal with china is out the window and the more fundamental issues facing the economy are going to have to be attended to if trump is going to have any hope for re-election. now it's the politics of blame shifting that are more paramount in his mind than thinking about trying to keep his economic talks going with chinese. so, yeah, i think even then, you

know, it's still the case that a lot of republicans who like trump to be more consistently negative about china than he is, but there's still something in the back of his head that thinks there might be a deal to be made somewhere. but, yeah, that's one of the clearest changes that's happened in terms of how he sees the politics of this when he's moved from that -- that period where he thought i can just downplay this and it will go away to, okay, that's not going to work. if that's not going to work i need to find villains and china's going to be at the top of that list. coming up, as more states start to reopen, there are many people who are scared to go back to work out of fear of catching the virus. or, as the governor of iowa calls them, quitters. >> uh. >> we'll explain the term voluntary quit to you and why those americans wouldn't be eligible for unemployment money. >> so, john heilemann, as we go to break, let's just mark it down, iowa now a swing state in

2020 for democrats. >> can new battleground state, democrats got that one, spend some time in iowa, joe biden. >> yeah. they're going, it's time go to go to des moines, governor. >> we'll are right back. go to des moines, governor. >> we'll are right back. we are , actively supporting you and your community. every day, we're providing trusted information from top health experts...sharing tools to help protect families from fraud... and creating resources to support family caregivers everywhere. as always, you can count on aarp to advocate for you and your family. join us and stay connected at aarp.org/coronavirus make family-sized meals fast, and because it's a ninja foodi, it can do things no other oven can, like flip away. the ninja foodi air fry oven, the oven that crisps and flips away.

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right now, "morning joe" chief medical correspondent dr. dave campbell. dr. dave, of course we've been talking about grim milestones,

the u.s. passing 1 million cases. 58,000 americans dying. it also looks like projection models are changing once again. of course, they have to be fluid because we have 320 million people in this country. and depending on how those 320 million people act, what they do, what they do not do, the models are constantly changing. now there seems to be some changes with a slight uptick in. you have donald trump talking about 50 or 60,000 people dying even a week ago. we're now obviously going to easily surpass those numbers, unfortunately, tragically. so what's happening with these models? why are they sort of projecting a little more of an upward arc than we expected two weeks ago? >> well, the models are taking in realtime information which includes this patchwork of states reopening their economies, relaxing some of their contact reductions. so in realtime now we have the scientists throwing that data in and seeing as states relax their

restrictions that the number of deaths and therefore the number of new cases will be going up, joe. >> i want to talk about sweden. it's a fascinating case study. the swedes obviously have not sheltered in place as aggressively as their neighbors or other people around the world. and, of course, the impact was that they get more coronavirus cases and more deaths than a lot of their neighbors. at the same time, sweden is placing a bet that by exposing more of their population to the infection that they'll come out better on the other side. and, again, nobody knows the answer to this, but i'd love your input on -- on what you think's going on in sweden. >> it's a bet they're going to lose. and they already know they're going to lose it. about two weeks ago they implemented social distancing. their numbers, they have three times the rate of death compared to those other countries nearby

that you're talking about for denmark, finland, norway. so this is an experiment on a grand scale for their 10 million people in their country that most experts would suggest is a bad idea. >> they were pursuing herd immunity, right? just like the brits were talking about doing that, boris johnson was talking about doing that. he, of course, has changed his mind, right? >> you know, joe, some people don't even understand herd immunity. imagine this. a giant herd of animals and the little ones or the weak ones are in the middle protect from the predators outside. there are 10 million people in sweden. herd immunity requires about 70% or more of the country to have immunity, whether from a vaccine or having been infected and develop immunity. the world health kortiorganizat just told us we don't know if having been infected with

covid-19 protects you with any certainty or for how long. so this is an experiment in sweden that we will see unfold, but already we can see they're backtracking a little bit and putting their money on social distancing versus herd immunity. >> well, and, again, as you said, dave, that's a great point. right now we don't know what exactly happens to people that have the virus, survive the virus, whether they can be infected again. there's still so many questions. the good news is, and maybe we can talk about this some other day with you, oxford study obviously in a vaccine, pfizer moving forward. that's really our best chance out of this. dr. dave campbell, thank you so much. >> thanks, dr. zblaif budave. >> as dr. fauci says from the very beginning, could be a year

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the democrats, they don't want to come back. they don't want to come back i think they should be back here but they don't. they're enjoying their vacation. and they shouldn't be. yeah, i think they are. i think they are. if you look at in eating ice cream on late night television, yeah, i think they probably are. they're having a good time. i think they should be back. i think they should all come back and we should work on this together. >> so rather than spending time talking about the president saying we should inject lysol in our lungs and he makes a big fuss about my having ice cream in my freezer, that's his latest

today, most current today, she has lysol in her freezer. i guess he'd rather have ice cream in my freezer, i guess that's better than having lysol in somebody's lungs as he is suggesting. but, again, enough of him. >> he has actually suggested that. so, again -- >> he actually did. >> leave it to the president of the united states to be talking about ice cream and trying to actually -- he's so desperate because he's talking about people injecting disinfectants in their body, asking doctors whether they should do that, talking about sticking lights inside of bodies. >> and he made himself the mockery of the world when that happened and was very embarrassed. so then he starts fighting back in other ways. >> so the only answer is that nancy pelosi's eating ice cream? i've been on the floor of the house of representatives, i don't know if i've told you that or not, very crowded there. it's a big difference between walking around the west wing,

being isolated for the most part, having people going around testing you. the last thing that any responsible president should want, that any responsible leader in washington should want, the last thing i guarantee you that the president's own medical advisers want are for 435 people to be crammed together in one room. that room not as big as it looks on tv. >> along with joe, willie and me we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. white house reporter for "the associated press" jonathan lemire. and former u.s. senator, now an nbc news and msnbc political analysts clair mccaskill. >> what a great group to talk baseball. barnicle, let's start with you. >> little heaven. >> i hear there may be some plans to get baseball players back in june. what can you tell us? >> well, there is a plan, joe,

but think it's more wishful thinking than reality. i mean, when you just consider the logistics, i mean, 30 teams, traveling parties, you're talking over 3,000 people in total, players, coaches, medical staff, front office staff and a few ball parks in either texas or arizona. and that's even before you get to the negotiation over what will you pay the players. because owners would be putting up the money to get the teams there and they would be playing in front of no fans whatsoever, no gate money. so, you know, it's great to think about. i hope it happens. i kinda doubt it will. >> clair mccaskill, what do you think? is it a good idea? can it be pulled off? >> well, i think it sounds great in the abstract to be able to watch baseball on television. i think we're all jonesing for baseball on television right now as the weather warms up. the problem is as the first player you have these incredible investments in these great

players. when the player goes down with covid and then another player contracts covid, then you're going to see the mlb scrambling to say well, never mind. so i think it's a really risky thing to do, especially if they're planning on doing it as soon as june. maybe they can manage it later in the year, but it worries me. as much as i miss baseball and miss my cardinals, i still think this is really putting the players at risk for real health complications. >> jonathan lemire, another important baseball question. is there anything in mookie's contract that says if he doesn't play for the dodgers in 2020 the red sox can get him back? >> not quite. but some of the service time issues are being worked out in the league and the players' union and stuff. and at the moment, the proposal is that this year would count as part of his service time. so he would, mookie betts, could be a free agent at years' end.

whether or not he actually plays a game this season with the dodgers. so potentially, joe, he could then be a free agent and resign with the red sox in the off-season. perhaps, therefore, his career would only be played in boston. but it remains to be seen. let me add my voice to that list. it would be great to have baseball back. they're clearly floating a couple of proposals here. one was to have the whole league based out of arizona because so many spring training parks are there. now they're floating the idea to radically realigning baseball, three ten-team divisions mixing up numerically based strictly on geography to cut down on travel. but, again, playing in front of the empty parks dpoint kn. i don't know how feasible that is. someone was saying as much as the president wants these sports leagues to be back as possible, he's really pushing for football in particular to be back this fall -- the baseball -- >> by the way --

>> be the first sports back? >> football -- the nfl -- of that was would be the worst. >> no contact there, joe. no way to spread out. >> that would be the worst option, football. willie, so, you know, you look back at the beginning of this crisis when americans really started to get it, when they heard that tom hanks and rita wilson had coronavirus, everybody was calling everybody because it was stars that they knew and loved and admired. but, man, when the nba canceled their season, when ncaa tournament was canceled, march madness was canceled, that's when people started to realize that these huge sports entities were shutting down, that this was serious because they were obviously giving up billions and billions of dollars. i think major league baseball, you have a little more separation in baseball so maybe it does make a little more sense than the nba. but, still, very difficult challenges ahead.

>> yeah, that was a defining moment, i think, in that. i think it was a wednesday night when rudy gobert of the utah jazz tested positive for coronavirus and the team trainer ran out on to the floor right before the game began and pulled the team off the floor in dallas. shortly thereafter the nba suspended the rest of its season. this baseball plan on paper just as sports fans and all of us sitting here right now and a lot of you watching are baseball fans is exciting. i mean, the idea that you could have three divisions, this is the plan that's been floated out, and just get rid of the national and american leagues and make them regional divisions. in one division you'd have the yankees and the mets, the red sox and the phillies and these teams would play each other and play in their home ball parks, it's tantalizing and exciting. but i think for all the reasons that everyone's laid out, it's going to be very difficult even without big crowds in the stadiums to move these guys around and to have them interacting at all with each other. if there were a sport they could do it, as you say, it's probably

baseball. people are so hungry for sports, you look at the ratings for the jordan documentary, the ten-part documentary on espn, astronomical ratings and there were again even for the second night. the nfl draft, which was conducted effectively on zoom did a rating almost as close as an nfl game would get on espn. people are so thirsty for sports. so let's hope there's a way that safely question get ba safely we can get back to the sports we love. but there are significant challenges ahead to reopen the country, since no state in america has so far met the federal guidelines to begin lifting stay-at-home orders. the trump administration's rules requires states to record a 14-day consecutive decline in cases. states like georgia and minnesota are pushing to reopen even though new infection rates continue to rise. plus, businesses are unsure of their legal liberty when thabil

do reopen. they're trying to shield companies against companies or employees who contract the virus and accuse the business of being the source of the infection. all this reported in the "new york times" this morning. as the times points out, the trump's administration message on reopening continues to be contradictory. president trump has urged states to rapidly reopen, remember liberate. but nearly at the same time one of his top health advisers, dr. anthony fauci, has been warning against precipitous actions actions by the state. president trump said yesterday this was going to going away and in a modified form in the fall we'll be able to handle it. dr. fauci said the virus is not going to disappear from the planet and will absolutely come back. dr. fauci continued, in my mind it is inevitable that we will have a return of the virus or maybe that it never ever went away. he said adding that the united states could be in for a bad

fall if no treatment is developed by then. here is president trump yesterday. >> now that our experts believe the worst days of the paent and are behind us, americans are looking forward to the safe and rapid reopening of our country throughout this ordeal, millions of hardworking americans have been asked to really make tremendous, tremendous sacrifices. >> mr. president, you said at the top [ inaudible ] worse in the pandemic is behind us. but without a treatment, without a vaccine, how can you be so sure? >> well, i think that like other things, we're going to hopefully we're going to come up with a vaccine. you never know about a vaccine. tremendous progress has been made. johnson and johnson and oxford an lots of good things you've been hearing the same things as i do, tremendous progress has been made, we think, on a vaccine. you always have to say think and then you have to test it and that takes a period of time. but a lot of movement and a lot of progress has been made on a

vaccine. but i think what happens is it's going to go away. this is going to go away. and whether it comes back in a modified form in the fall we'll be able to handle it and put out spiri spurts and we're prepared to handle it. >> dr. fauci has said it time and time again and he said it yesterday, this is coming back in the fall, it could be even worse in the fall. that's dr. fauci saying that, not you or me saying that. president trump says a period of time. he use always uses that broad term, it's going to take a period of time. well, dr. fauci said that period of time is at least a year if we're lucky and maybe more. >> right. and the president just keeps lying. keeps saying it will go away. he said it in february. he said it in -- in march. he said it back in january. and, again, we have over a million infections after the president said it was going to majal

magically go away. he's going from 15 down zero, so we've done a good job. here we are again. he's saying it's going to go away. when the president says experts believe the worst days are behind us, that's a lie. dr. fauci has repeatedly said, scott gottlieb has said, every expert has said that the fall could be worse. that if this hits, when flu season is upon us, and they didn't -- they aren't even saying if this hits, they say it will be with us still in the fall unless there's a vaccine. >> right. but there won't be, so. >> that it will get worse. so when the president says experts believe the worst days are behind us, the president is lying again in a way that risks even more american lives. again, you would think, mika, he would learn from his lessons. but this is -- this is what he

was saying in february and march, said it was going to be warm in april and it would magically go away in april because it was warm. and the only thing that i would say to the president is, follow your own guidelines. you put out a list of guidelines for states to follow. i know you're a day trader, right? but if you can remind yourself every day that this is the best move for america's -- for america's safety, for your political safety, for the health of senior citizens who are dying at too large of a number, stay consistent with your own guidelines. and americans will be much safer when states reopen. and, by the way, i'm not talking about the media's suggestions, i'm not talking about nancy pelosi's suggestions, i'm not talking about joe biden's suggestions.

joe biden's called this right from the very beginning. i'm not talking about bernie sanders' suggestions, i'm talking about your suggestions. i'm talking about your guidelines. so the freaks out there that are a part of the cult who are telling americans that -- that the shutdown was the worst thing that's ever happened to america, mr. president, those freaks are condemning you. you need to understand that. because you supported all of this. those freaks, those propagandists who are saying this is the worst mistake in history and trying to blame it on the liberal media, mr. president, you, yourself, have said repeatedly that if we didn't do the social distancing the way we did, 1 to 2 million americans would die. and, mr. president, those freaks, those propagandists that

are telling americans that they need to rush out right now and go back to work, they're ignoring your guidelines. your white house guidelines. you see, there's -- there's no way to run away from this. i know you're trying triangulate it, i know you're a day trade sorry one day you're trying to go and play to that 15%. the other day -- the next day you're trying to play to the 85% who actually think that your guidelines are pretty good. why don't you embrace your guidelines? again, it would be best for america's health, best for america's safety, best for seniors in florida, best for seniors in michigan, best for seniors in wisconsin, best for seniors in pennsylvania, best in those states you care the most about. but also be best for you. just follow your guidelines. and while you're at that time, tell your vice president to wear a damn mask the next time he

goes into a clinic that has a rule about people wearing masks. mika, it was just unbelievable. but, again, the president's still lying, mika, in a way that's going to kill people. >> what americans are learning is that everything is up for grabs in terms of what the president says and does. and in terms of whether or not it's true. what you're seeing here, coronavirus testing labs yesterday, mike pence opted to ignore hospital policy in the hospital and did not wear a face mask. while pence was meeting with doctors and sick patients, the minnesota hospital tweeted that it had, quote, informed the vice president of the masking policy prior to his arrival. that tweet was later deleted. pence defended his apparent violation of the medical center's policy. >> i'm tested for the coronavirus on a regular basis. and everyone who is around me is tested for the coronavirus.

and when the cdc issued guidelines about wearing a mask, it was their recognition that people that may have the coronavirus could prevent the possibility of conveying the virus to someone else by wearing a mask. and since i don't have the coronavirus, i thought it would be a good opportunity for me to be here, to be able to speak to these researchers, these incredible health care personnel and look 'em in the eye and say thank you. >> how reckless unless you wear a mask over your eyes, you can still look them in the eye. and, mika, he can actually follow the guidelines. what a horrible example to americans. it was for an audience of one, of course. >> clair mccaskill, the doctors who are on the front lines who are talking to mike pence and his presence in that hospital, they were wearing masks. i just wonder if you could, perhaps, describe for us, is it possible to describe the lengths

that mike pence will go to please president trump? >> i don't think that it's measurable and, you know, the thing that's saddest about this, you know, we all go back between being angry, frustrated, sad. what is so sad about this is that we have in this country always looked to the president and the vice president to set an example. to model good behavior. for american citizens and for our children. and for the head of a task force that has recommended wearing masks to go into a medical facility who has requested respectfully that he wear a mask, for him to think that the vanity of showing his face is more important than setting an example and role modeling for americans, you know, let's let one statistic sink in this morning. united states has about 4% of

the world's population. 4%. right now we're running at about 27% of the deaths. with 4% of the population, we've got more than a fourth of all the deaths in the world. that's how badly it's going in the united states. so, you would think mike pence would be more respectful of wanting to model everyone. we need to make sure we're not conveying this virus. wear a mask. it's not that hard. >> yeah, and he said he was there to pay tribute to those doctors and health care professionals. what possibly could be more disrespectful than completely ignoring their rules and also their safety by not wearing the mask? it's not just disrespectful, it's going out of your way to be disrespectful. as you guys said, to please president trump, of course, who has said himself he doesn't want to wear a mask. more americans, meanwhile, disapprove of president trump's handling of the coronavirus response. according to a new npr marist poll released just this morning,

55% of americans say they disapprove of the president's response to the coronavirus pandemic. that's up six points since last month. 44% of americans approve of the way he's handling it. more than 6 in 10 believe their state's governor is handling the crisis better than president trump. americans also shared their thoughts about which 2020 contender could handle the virus and the economy better. 55% say they would prefer for joe biden to be handling the coronavirus pandemic. 40% would rather have president trump managing the crisis. a 15-point spread for joe biden. and 51% of americans want joe biden handling the economy. 44% say they'd rather it be trump. the poll also adds whether it's a good or bad idea to resume certain normal activities without further testings, look at these numbers. 91% of americans say it is a bad idea to allow people to attend sporting events without further

testing. 85% agree schools should remain closed. 80% think restaurants should not allow customers to dine in. and 65% say it is a bad idea to allow people to return to work without testing. mike barnicle, those numbers tell the story as we leave those up. we all want to go to a baseball game. we'd much rather have our kids in school with their teachesers and friends. we'd like to support our restaurants by filling up their dieing rooms. we'd all like to go back to work and see each other in person. we'd like to go back to our jobs if we've been laid off in this country. but americans understand because they are listening to the doctors and because they are smart, they understand the risks of doing any of those things without further testing. >> yes to all of those things, willie. and, as you just noted, the governors in several states are the leaders. here in massachusetts charlie baker, governor baker, he steps

up every day, as does governor cuomo, as did to the governors michigan, california, ohio, they step up every day with, guess what? hard, tough to hear information, and factual information that they provide the public. people filled with anxiety and fear about the virus, they know they have more common sense thaent leaders of ththan the leaders of this country, mike pence and donald trump. and it's one of the -- put that in quotation marks, we live in a country today, willie, where you go to the supermarket early in the morning, stand in line to get in and you hear the conversations among other people separated by six feet talking about how long they've been furloughed from their jobs, how long they've been laid off, how are things going. and you realize that large parts of the country people are now measuring the future by a clock, not a calendar.

>>on th >> jonathan lemire, i'm going to ask you to do the impossible and explain what's going on in the president's mind. 85% of americans in this latest poll say don't reopen the schools. it's not safe. now you have kids, i've got four kids, mika has kids, we all remember what flu season was like when the kids were younger. and, by the way, you're going to be living that for the next decade. it is a petry dish. kids bring that home. that's why 85% of americans are saying that they are not ready for schools to reopen. the president yesterday and this week has been suggesting that schools reopen. the overwhelming majority of americans in the pugh poll, in the fox news poll, you name the polls, it shows the majority of americans believe that the social distancing guidelines need to stay in place.

the white house's own guidelines, as i was saying earlier, reflected this. and dr. fauci and dr. birx are saying just follow the whitehouse guidelines if you want to reopen your states. but every day donald trump crosses himself, steps on his own message. so -- so why? why does he put these guidelines out? why does he see all of these polls showing that this is disastrous except for maybe five fer 5%, 10%, 15% of the most extreme people that support him, why does he continue to do things that, one, will hurt americans' health and, two, assure that he will not get recollected in t-e fall? i thought that's all he cared about. >> it's an extraordinary amount of mismixed messaging.

and if they follow the president's word about reopening businesses before it's safe to do so. you're right, we've had on one hand the president saying, you know, asking the nation to forge forward, reopening on the other hand the medical team saying the opposite. the white house has been giving the president other opportunities to speak to the press in different settings trying to ramp down some of the jousting with reporters, some of the misinformation that was obviously -- that was coming to dominate those briefings and were driving down the president's poll numbers. but you hit it on the head, joe, this is a president who is, of course, consumed with the idea of re-election. he's facing voters again in about six months and he's doing now what he did at the beginning of this crisis, focusing more on the economy than perhaps some of

the public health implications. according to my reporting, people i've talked to in the white house last couple days, they do, indeed, the political side of this, the west wing side of this, not doctors, believe that the worst of this is lind th behind them and they can reopen the country and they can start pushing people to go back to work to obtain some sort of normalcy by later this spring and over the summer. believing that that will be the key to the president's re-election. they need to get the economy started again, they know the numbers are catastrophic right now, the second quarter is going to be dismal. they believe the third quarter can be a comeback, and the fourth quarter could be a return to normal. that, of course, say very optimistic take that defies a lot of what the doctors are saying. but that's where the president is now. we're seeing an antsiness from him coming forward in these briefings where he's pushing the nation to get back to it even though doctors are behind closed doors telling him, urging him to slow down. >> all right.

still ahead on "morning joe," chuck schumer says health care workers are on a scavenger hunt for their lives. now senate democrats are pushing a plan to federalize the supply chain. and senator chris murphy of connecticut joins us next to explain. plus, joe biden gets an endorsement from hillary clinton. as democrats continue their push for unity. but there's now another potential candidate in the mix. we'll play word association with clair mccaskill and the name, justin amash. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. mash. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. our family at home or those at work, principal is by your side. we're working hard to answer your questions. like helping you understand what the recently passed economic package can mean for you. we're more than a financial company. we're a "together we can get through anything" company. now, more than ever.

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a connecticut father battling coronavirus wrote a heartbreaking letter to his family telling them how much he loved them while he was in the hospital. jonathan, 32, was a state employee for ten years and a father to 2-year-old braden and

10-month-old penelope when he contracted the coronavirus. he was admitted to the hospital when his condition deteriorated. before he was intubated, he wrote the thrower his wiletter d children saying i love you guys with all my heart and you've given me the best life i could ever asked for. i'm so lucky it makes me so proud to be your husband and father to braden and penny. you're the most nurturing and caring person i've ever met. you're truly one of a kind. make sure you live life with happiness and the same passion that made me fall in love with you. seeing you be the best mom to the kids is the greatest thing i have ever experienced. he succumb to the virus on app 22nd after a 28-day battle.

with us now, democrat chrmuy of connecticut. senator, there's so many stories like that. this is -- this is a virus that really strikes young and old, republican and democrat, conservative and liberal. i know there are a lot of people in the fringe media that are trying to turn this into some sort of wedge issue. but the overwhelming number of republicans and democrats alike see this the same way, as a dangerous pandemic that requires social distancing, requires them to move forward safely. and, yet, the president keeps going against his own guidelines. >> experts yesterday revised

upward the expected number of americans who will die by this summer. we're looking at somewhere around 90,000 americans. and as that piece points out, you know, this isn't just frail elderly, these are 30-year-olds and 40-year-olds who were healthy with children who are losing their lives. and, you know, what a lot of us who have been around the gun violence epidemic know is that when someone's life is cut short unexpectedly, there are, on average, 10 to 20 other people who experience a diagnosisable trauma because of that death. and the ripples of this epidemic are going to be endless. you're going to have mental health issues that are going to be with us for years and years that we're going to have to take care of as a country. it's hard to get your head wrapped around how big this tragedy is when 90,000 people disappear from the united states unexpectedly in a period of six months.

and, yes, of course, the only way that you can get past this is with social distancing. but, also, with technology. because in order for us to open the economy white virus remains at lower levels, you're going to have to be able to do the testing and tracing and quarantining necessary to stop the virus from coming back. so it's both sticking with the social distancing guidelines until the experts say it's okay to open back up, but it's also investing in the technology that will allow us to open up hopefully sometime this summer. >> senator murphy, it's willie geist. good to see you this morning. i know that you're cosponsoring legislation for transparency in the supply chain, the medical supply chain. and i'm curious as i listen to some of the news yesterday the president using the defense production act to reopen meat processing plants because there's a projected meat shortage in this country. we know that those processing plants have been hot beds of coronavirus. why he's been unwilling, then, to use the defense production

act for things like getting medical supplies where they need to go, ramping up testing, having a national program, he's willing to use it in certain cases but not on these big questions that might actually expedite testing and help us get our arms around it. high do you suspewhy do you sus it? >> today 47 of us in the senate -- 46 of us in the senate are offering legislation for him to use the production act to ramp up the number of swabs, masks that we're making in the united states. your question say good one. why has the president not done this? he's done it in dribs and drabs. he's used the defense production act for a small order here and small order there. what we understand is that big business interests through the chamber of commerce have been lobbying the president not to use his powers under the defense production act to make more

medical equipment. and then also to make sure it gets distributed to the right places. the reason for that is those industries are making a lot of money by price gouging, by the scarcity of the supplies today. and they don't really want the federal government coming in and dictating how much they produce and what price it's made at. the defense production act would allow these manufacturers to make a profit where a, we just want them to make an outrageous profit over life and death. our legislation would require the froze explain exactly how many swabs do weapon need and how many can be produced in america and where are they going? right now we don't have that visibility on what the administration's doing. >> clair mccaskill has a question, senator. clair. >> good morning, chris. could you briefly explain to everyone the difference between a give or take -- a giver state and a taker state? i noticed that senator scott of florida took a swing at states

that need aid. by the way, florida will be on that list because they're dependent on sales tax since they don't have an income tax. talk about the states that are givers and the states that are takers and how you feel about senators from taker states taking a swing at a giver state. >> so, you know, when you and i were in the senate voting on disaster assistance packages, we never stopped and asked ahead of time who those states voted for for president. if there was a disaster, a hurricane or a tornado, we stepped up and made sure those states had the resources necessary to respond to those disasters. now all of a sudden mitch mcconnell is suggesting that he doesn't really think that we should help states like connecticut or new york keep our citizens alive because we are, quote, blue states, unquote. that's extraordinary the idea that we're going to decide who

lives and who dies based upon who we vote for for president. but he also suggested that he didn't want to bail out states like connecticut and new york. and this is to your question, every single year the state of connecticut gives to the federal government somewhere between 10 and $20 billion more than connecticut gets back. and, you know what? we're generally happy to do that. we have a lot of citizens in connecticut who have done very, very well and we understand that we are going to give more to the country because folks in florida or kentucky who don't do as well need to be able to provide their syd citizens with health care and preschool. question we understand that. but the idea that florida is receiving far more in federal funds every single year than it gives to the federal treasury is pretty wild. and i just don't want to get into an environment in which we are not helping our neighbors when they're in need and that we're not understanding that

sometimes states that do a little bit better should help states that have a little bit more need. >> jonathan lemire. >> senator, a new political divide emerging. we heard the president talk about this yesterday is the two chambers of congress and whether or not they will be in washington to vote on the people's business during this pandemic. we've heard the house of representatives say they won't be returning because the house physician said it would not be safe for the members to be in washington. washington's still very much a hot spot of the pandemic. while senate majority leader mcconnell has said that he is forging forward, that he wants the senate to return in the coming days. talk about what sort of balance can be struck here? what is the solution? is something like remote voting possible where therefore the representatives could be safe but yet still do the vital legislation needed? >> so i think remote voting is

possible and needed. but i also think we need to be clear about why the senate is coming back into session next week. mitch mcconnell isn't calling the sit in senate back into session next week to work on emergency relief legislation related to coronavirus, he's not calling the senate into session next week in order to do oversight over the bungled and mismanaged response by the trump administration of the coronavirus, he's calling the senate back into session next week in order to get one of his friends, his political allies, appointed to the bench and possibly to stock the federal judiciary with more conservative judges. that's not business that is necessary to do right now. if you were going to put at risk the lives of thousands of capital workers, these are cafeteria workers, janitors as well as political staffers, then let's make sure we're actually responding to the crisis. and that's not what the senate will be doing next week. we're apparently going to be voting to appoint one of mitch

mcconnell's proteges so the federal bench. and in doing so we are going put a lot of people's health at risk. >> all right. senator chris murphy, thank you so much. we'll be following the legislation you'll problem deucing the medical supply transparency and delivery act. thank you very much. and coming up, we'll be joined by another member of congress, senator chris coons of the senate is calling for the expanse expansion of the national service programs in response to the coronavirus outbreak. he joins us ahead on "morning joe." outbreak. he joins us ahead on "morning joe." cancer won't wait.

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i want to add my voice to the many who have endorsed you to be our president. just think of what a difference it would make right now if we had a president who not only listened to the science, put facts over fiction, but brought us together. >> brought us together and also, mika, as we keep saying, saw this coming in january. >> yeah. >> warned that donald trump was not prepared, would not have america prepared in january for a coming pandemic. >> so that was hillary clinton. she endorsed joe biden for president. and clair mccaskill, as joe points out, joe biden warned america and it was a grave warning.

it was an opinion piece written in usa today. and he nailed it on every level as to what was coming, which really even shows even more -- the difference between these two candidates if you're making a choice for president. but how clear the warnings were for trump. >> yeah, we now know that trump was warned by his intelligence community repeatedly. we know that he was warned by hhs repeatedly. the secretary of hhs. we now know that the cdc docs, we now know that we had americans working at the world health organization embedded there in january and february, and we know that joe biden warned president trump. he had warnings from just about every place you could get a warning as a sitting president. >> yeah. >> but he didn't want to hear what he was being told. and when donald trump hears something that he doesn't want to hear, he ignores it.

and he goes his own way. and as a result, we are -- have more than a fourth of the deaths in the world from this virus even though we only had 4% of the population. our party is coming together, they're unified. i was a little disappointed in what i heard yesterday about a third-party candidate. the noise you heard yesterday was a cannon going off in the white house when justin amash announced that he was running for president. they dropped balloons from the sky in the west wing when justin amash announced that he was running for president. every single anti-trump vote needs to be focused on the viable candidate for president. every single one. we do not have room for error in this election. this is no time for a ross perot or a jill stein or a ralph nader. this is time for everyone be

united that believes that donald trump is a very bad president to the country we love. >> well, and, willie, if history is any guide, and certainly it should, you could look at what happened in 2000, ralph nader getting george w. bush elected. you could look at 2016 jill stein helping to get donald trump elected president. and there is no doubt that there are a lot of never trumpers out there who will probably vote for amash, not most of them on twitter, but there will be many other people who will take their vote away from joe biden and will be voting for justin amash. >> yeah. and the congressman has won praise for sticking to his principle in the trump years and being one of the few to cross president trump when he was in congress. obviously as clair has expressed here, a lot of people in the democratic party are not pleased with this announcement, because if you think about one other

element of this, is he from michigan. clearly will have some support in michigan if he makes it all the way to the ballot in november. and i would remind you that michigan went by what? 10,000, 11,000 votes in 2016. >> all right. so there is a national outpouring of support for america's doctors and nurses. but sometimes that is not enough. joining us to talk about the mental health challenges facing first responders, chair of psychiatry and sigh couldpsychp chief at columbia university medical center, dr. jeffrey leaker than. he is past president of the american psychiatric association and was a colleague of dr. larna breen who took her own life sunday. dr. lieberman, thank you for coming on the show. i'm so sorry about the loss of your colleague. does this story surprise you,

are there any warnings that we can take away from it as you were taking a look at the mental wear and tear, the challenges on the front lines? >> it shocked me, but i can't say it surprised me. when the pandemic began to really escalate, and by escalate, it went -- in march, there were 100 patients with covid in the new york presbyterian hospital system. by mid april, it was over 2,000. so you had this torrent of patients in undating the emergency room in addition to all the other cases that they have to deal with. so it became apparent to the psychiatrists who aren't really in the direct line of fight like the e.r. doctors, a huge emotional toll that this continued to go on. and so we knew that this was going to affect people in

different ways to be able to administer in our colleague, not to treat them, but to provide stress management and professional support and unfortunately, while we anticipated some mental disorders and some catastrophic developments, we didn't expect to happen so quickly and to one of our most beloved colleagues. >> dr. lieberman, this is willie geist. appreciate your time this morning. the tragic story of dr. breen breaks your heart and her father has asked that we remember her as a hero and we do of course. it shines a light on something we've been worried about. we all have friends in new york or anywhere where doctors are treating patients about the long term impacts on the doctors and nurses and the medical personnel. because in some ways, it is like a warzone, they don't have time to stop and consider their feelings or what they are going through, but there is trauma for them as well.

so how do you keep an eye on those doctors and nurses in the middle of this storm, how do you stop and say to each one how are you doing, are you okay? >> traditionally it is not done. when you don't have emergencies or disasters that you are dealing with that often, thank god, but we know from past experience looking at the effects of the great depression, from the 9/11 disaster, from hurricane sandy, that after the natural or manmade or human-made disaster occurs, the aftermath, consequences are psychiatric emotional. so given the magnitude of this pandemic, we know that the second wave of this beyond when the contagion is wrestleded to the ground, that the major sequel sequelae will be psych i can't tell 2rik trick in nature. and that is not just the fear of social isolation and fear of

getting infected, but the economic and social dislocation which will be with us for a long time to come. >> mike barnicle. >> going through know and every certainly city and rural hospital, it is not exactly like a sudden gunshot wound on a friday night in the emergency room. this is a wave of similar cases, the virus, a wave. how much of a factor in creating this assemblage of people who now have i think ptsd, houchb of a factor is the fact that there was very little warning from the federal government during most of january and most of february about what was about to happen to the hospitals, to the nurses, to the doctors? >> it was a very large part but not all of it. so this disease is something

that infectious disease medicine has dealt with historically. there have been waves of infect 14us painfec infectious pathogens. swine floou the flus and ebola. and what caught us unprepared is the magnitude that overwhelmed the system. doctors are trained to deal with tremendous stress. but the number of people pouring into the emergency rooms that dr. breen had to deal with, it increased by ten fold. and she was not just dealing with huge numbers of patients who are very sick, but she also was witnessing people who died in the emergency room or even when they are getting out of the ambulance. and so it was like being in a field hospital during a warzone. and it is the scale of the epidemic as well as the unpreparedness. think of this way.

it is like in pearl harbor, we were caught by surprise. everybody was shocked and the country had to scramble to deal with it. same thing with 9/11. that is what we're doing now. and dr. breen as well as many other physicians -- when you are trained to be a physician, you become very disciplined, you develop resilience and you are strong and talented, but everybody has a breaking point and we have to be prepared to support the people if they reach that breaking point. >> psychiatrist in chief at columbia university medical center, dr. lieberman, thank you so much. and coming up, the coronavirus outbreak hits a grim milestone in terms of the number of cases and deaths. plus donald trump, or joe biden, new polling shows which candidate voters prefer to handle the pandemic and the economy. "morning joe" is back in a moment. "morning joe" is back ina moment

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the first phase, which is getting ready to respond, clearly we were not in a position of extraordinary strength. >> a lot of people think that goes away in april with the heat, as the heat comes in. typically that will go away in april. we're in great shape though. >> we didn't have the testing as fast as we could have or should have. >> anybody that needs a test gets a test. they're there. they have the tests. the tests are beautiful. >> the key in leadership is

recognizing you are not the smartest guy in the room. >> the metric is right here, that is all i can do. i can listen to 35 people. at the end, i've got to make a decision. >> that first phase was not one that will stand out i think as being a great moment in american leadership. >> mitt romney and president trump in their own words. good morning, welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, april 29. along with joe, willie and me, we have national affairs analyst and co-host of showtime's the circus john heilemann. and also washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay. mitt romney speaking out, joe, about leadership at a time of crisis. >> yeah, a time of crisis and it is interesting, you are actually starting starting to see, willie, in the media some of the same trump supports who were calling this a media hoax at the beginning

saying the media was exaggerating it. at the same time, the president was saying it was 15 cases and very soon would be down to zero. now of course over a million cases and more people dead than died in vietnam. but you're hearing some of these same people now talk about how it was a mistake for the united states -- the hospitals to prepare for a pandemic, to prepare for the oncoming crush, oh, this has done more only things for elective surgeries. and i saw it all yesterday. one buffoon called the shutdown the worst mistake in american history and maybe in world history. and the buffoonery continues. and what is incredible, as one doctor told us, one expert told us, we're in the second inning of a nine inning game and these fools, and i will say, yes, fools, are acting as if this is

over. and it is the ninth inning. and everybody just overreacted. just like they were doing in february and march. they still are not learning their lessons. >> and they are not acknowledging the fact that the reason the numbers aren't as high as they could have been, the reason that the hospitals have not been swamped as they could have been, because of action that was taken because of stay-at-home orders, because of social distancing. and that is not taking my word for it, that is taking dr. fauci's word for it, that is taking dr. birk's wox's word fo. i've seen it out there too. even as the u.s. as you pointed out crossed the 1 million mark for confirmed cases of coronavirus yesterday. and the death toll from the virus now has surpassed that of the 20 year vietnam war. 58,220 americans were killed during the roughly 20 year war while nearly 59,000 americans

have died from coronavirus in just under two months. in terms of confirmed cases, there now are more than 1,018,000 across the country, that represents about a third of all the cases in the world. the president was asked about that at an event at the white house yesterday. >> back in late february, you predicted that the number of cases would go down to zero. how did we get from your prediction of zero to 1 million? >> it will go down to zero ultimately. and you have to understand when it comes to cases, we did much more testing than anybody else. they will show more cases because we're doing double the testing of anybody else. somebody said if you add everybody else combined, that will be a number -- at the appropriate time, it will be down to zero like we said. >> i guess we have to say it again, that is not true, we don't have more than the rest of the world combined in terms of

tests. he was up last night talking about the cases that we have here and he said effectively the reason that we can tell you about 1 million cases which, yes, is a big number is because we've done so much testing he said. of course on a per capita basis, that is absolutely untrue as again dr. fauci will tell you and told us again yesterday. we have to do better on testing. >> well, and if you look at the testing that has happened around the world, and if we had the same per capita testing as some other countries, obviously that 1 million number would be much higher. but again, it is very important to remember the president said yesterday, oh, yeah, soon it will be down to zero. but the president said on february 22, we have just one person coming in from china, it is all taken care of. nothing to worry about. what the president said throughout february, what he even said in late february, was, oh, it is just 11 cases, soon it will be down to zero. it is 15 cases, soon it will be

down to zero. and in march, he was telling african-american leaders that it was going to magically go away. this is just going to magically go away. and again, john heilemann, what is so staggering to me is that some of the same propagandists for president trump who were echoing his lies saying that this was just a media jimmediam hoax are the same people now saying, wait a second, you know, this was the worst thing that ever happened. why don't you rush back out, why don't you go back to work, why didn't you go back to restaurants, why don't you open your businesses right now. and of course the hypocrisy of it all, they are saying this within the confines of their safe studios, their safe talk radio studios. their mother's basements where they are blogging these things. and once again, doing things

that i think in the future will be seen as putting american's lives as risk. he can be reopening the any in stages as i am, as mika is, as i'm sure a lot of people are. but they are repeating the same mistakes over and over again. s if and they are not using the word hoax, but they are getting there pretty quickly. especially i saw it all over in trump media, this idea that somehow the hospitals made a terrible mistake preparing for a pandemic when in fact the only reason they weren't completely slammed is because extraordinarily difficult decisions made by all americans about social distancing. >> right. i mean, look, just let's remember -- i can't believe we have to talk about this. remember what it was like in that period of mid to late march, throughout the month of

march when governors, governors in new york, governors in california and other states were looking at statistical projections by their departments of health that while in the worst case, calamitous for their health systems and hospital systems, they were unclear -- no one had ever done a thing like large scale social distancing and large scale stay-at-home orders. no one had any idea if people would follow the rules or the effects of those orders would be. and so governors did what we would beg them to do, what we would pray for them to do, which is prepare for the worst, hope for the best. this is like conventional wisdom, that is what you are supposed to do. these governors had no idea whether those rules would work or not. but they implemented the rules and prepared for the worse and as it turned out and to a great credit to the american people who followed those rules to stave off calamity, we ended up without an jekt came lbject cal.

but 6 60,000 is pretty bad. so we didn't avoid calamity, but we avoided the worst. but thank god that governor news newsom, governor cuomo and other governors did what we needed to come. if one of your friends was sick, what would you want the governor in your state to do, to prepare for the best to not have the hospitals ready for the potential overflow? it is mind boggling how idiotic these comments are and not just hypocritical, but to the real point, they are cavalier and dangerous and i think for a lot of people who have lost people in this tragedy, they are a slap in the face to hear these things from some of the idiots in the media and, again, dangerous because we still have big choices to make going forward about how we'll reopen as we try 2k0 the gradu to do the gradual, about how in the fall the virus could come back potentially with the flu.

anthony fau econoci, even on th force thinks that the virus will be back in the fall. we won't be prepared for what could be a worst investigation of this pandemic a few months from now. >> and that is a problem with donald trump's schizophrenic approach where he puts out guide lines that his doctors help him put together and if states would follow those guidelines, i think that we'd be in good shape. but he puts out the guidelines one day and the next day he starts pushing for people to go back. and he calls the governor of georgia saying, yeah, why didn't you open up tomorrow. the governor of georgia announces that he will open up. and then donald trump attacks the governor of georgia for opening up. now he is saying positive things to the governor of texas about opening up. what do you think happens when texans start dying? so it is the inconsistency and you have again these trumpists out there that again, they think

that they are carving out a political position that is going to help them in the future with a conservative base. fighting back, pushing back against doctors, pushing back against nurses, pushing back against health care officials. but mika, if you look at the polls that are coming out, whether it is the pew poll, whether it is the fox news poll, of course an npr poll yesterday, mika, overwhelming majority of americans support what governors like governor newsom, governor dewine doing a great job in ohio, governor hogan doing a great job in maryland, governor cuomo. they are supporting what these governors, republican and democratic alike, are doing. >> they are scared, they want leadership. and these polls just crossed this morning, more americans disapprove of president trump's handling of the coronavirus

response. according to a new npr maris poll just released this morning, 55% of americans say that they disapprove of the president's response to the coronavirus pandemic. that is up six points since last month. 44% approve. over 6 in 10 believe their state's governor is handling the crisis better than president trump americans also shared their thoughts about which 2020 contender could handle the virus and the economy better. 55% say that they would prefer for george w. bush to joe bidee coronavirus pandemic. 40% would rather have trump managing the crisis. >> and this in the middle of the greatest crisis since world war ii, joe biden preferred by 15%. of course the reason why in part, when joe biden in late january is warning the pandemic will get worse and donald trump still in march is just saying that it will magically go away?

that gives you some insight into why americans know joe biden saw this coming all along and warned people in january about what was going to happen. >> so here opinions fall along partisan lines, but it does include 55% of independents who say that they would prefer biden be handling the crisis. and 51% of americans want joe biden handling the economy. 44% say that they would rather it be trump. willie. >> and willie, that is pretty remarkable number too if you look at joe biden on the economy, more americans prefer joe biden handling the economy. donald trump's calling card, what he's always bragged about, saying this is the difference between him and other republicans or him and democrats, he knows how to do things. well, no, actually americans have seen his failures in developing a strong testing regimen, has kept this country

closed longer. and if you look at his own doctors, if you look at his own scientists, if you listen to what medical providers say, they all say -- and by the way, ceos are saying it too, we can't reopen our economy until we strengthen our testing. everybody is saying it. from ceos to nurses. and so i think that is partly what you are seeing in those poll numbers that show americans prefer joe biden to donald trump when it comes to handling the economy. >> still ahead on "morning joe," president trump is asked if he has spoken directly with the families of those impacted by the pandemic. his embarrassing answer is next on "morning joe." every financial plan needs a cfp® professional --

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57-39% on the question of who cares about people like themselves. that number in mind when listening to this next piece of sound. yesterday president trump was asked if he has spoken with the families of anyone who has died in the pandemic other than the family of his one friend that he has mentioned along the way. take a listen. >> you have spoken about your friend who passed away. i'm wondering if you have spoken to the families of anyone else who has lost loved ones to covid-19, any particular stories that affected you. >> i know many stories. i've spoken to three, maybe i guess four families. unrelated to me. i lost a very good friend. i also lost three other friends whom i didn't know as well, but they were friends. and probably almost everybody in the room did business with them. and it is a bad death. it is not a -- it is a bad thing. and it grips on to some people.

we found out that young people to extraordinarily well. that is why i think that we can start thinking about schools, but of course we're ending the school season. so, you know, it wouldn't be probably -- you wouldn't be back for too long. i know where purdue university, a great school, a greaeat state wants to open and have students come in. i think that is correct. some colleges i think i saw harvard wants to have students come back in the fall. i think the whole concept of computer learning is wonderful, but it is not tele learning, but it is not the same thing as being in a classroom and at a great college or a college of any kind, college, university. there is nothing that -- you can't replace that. so hopefully they will be coming back. young people do very well with this horrible scorge. so i'll see you tomorrow and we'll have other things to talk about. we have a lot of interesting

things. i don't think that we should have a news conference today because this is a news conference in addition a celebration of the incredible people that have done such a good job. i think we found a couple stars in this room today. i won't tell you whom, but there are a couple -- this guy right here is the biggest star in the room. right? we'll all agree he is -- i vote for you, okay? a great job you've done. and i really appreciate it, too. i appreciate you being here. couldn't have done better. >> what was the question? >> so the question was about people who died and had you spoken to any. and he can't do it. he just can't do it. he is uncomfortable. or it is impossible for him. and i'm not sure which is worse. >> or maybe he hasn't spoken to families. >> if you have the opportunity to speak to the historic number of people, matches the number of people lost in the vietnam war, you have an opportunity to speak

to the loss, the hugh mani it h of this, the pain of this, the unbelievable impossible it will have on generations? you can't do it. you pivot to schools opening and computers and tele learning. and then this guy. wow. i mean, it is impossible to know somebody who disappoints you more every single day than this president. and i mean, that was -- joe, that was -- that was pathetic. that was really sad. that he can't even feign empathy. he can't try to feign empathy. he won't do it. >> they actually tried at the press conference by having him read a couple lines which he read very poorly. but willie, while the president is talking about reopening the schools, this is a commander in chief that is forcing west point graduates to fly back from

across the country when they're concerned for their safety, when the administrators at west point are concerned about their safety, and the president has said that he wants them back so he can deliver a commencement address and actually said that he wanted them to be tight. wanted them to be together tight. he doesn't like -- he didn't like the social distancing that they had at the air force academy. again, obviously stating the obvious here, not a serious man. but a dangerous man when it comes to handling this pandemic. he's undersold it now he is talking about getting schools back when 85% of americans don't want schools back. and here he is talking about even, you know, forcing cadets to fly back from across the country. and many of them right now helping with this pandemic response, to fly back so that they can hear him read a speech.

>> yeah, and these are the signs those people we were talking about at the top of the show who said that all of this stay-at-home action that we've taken, all the social distancing is the greatest mistake in history and all the other extreme ridiculous comments. they get signals from donald trump, the signals include, i don't know, not wearing a mask when you go to the mayo clinic for example if you are in the administration. or talking about coming back for easter. or talking about it is fine to have the graduation at west point. so despite the guidelines they put out, those people watch the actions of this president and this white house. but looking at that question, just imagine again what barack obama, george w. bush, bill clinton, george h.w. bush, go down the line, what that moment would be like with any other president. >> jimmy carter. >> g . >> go back through every president, what speech they would have given, the story they might have told. it reminded me when he barked at peter alexander for the civil

question of what is your message to americans who are scared and he said my message isyou're a terrible reporter.message to am scared and he said my message you're a terrible reporter. that is a moment to just be a human, express some base level of empathy and he is not capable of it. coming up, an nbc news exclusive, a senior chinese official is challenging president trump over america's coronavirus response saying that the u.s. wasted weeks. we'll go to beijing next.

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i'm looking at willie's text about my voice. willie, why don't you take the nbc news reporting that the white house has ordered u.s. intelligence agencies to find out whether china and the world health organization initially h wh mid what they knew about the deadly pandemic. i'll rest it. >> you are powering through like the pro you are. according to an official directly familiar with the matter, last week the nsa and defense intelligence agency received a specific tasking seeking information about the outbreak's early days. current and former officials familiar with the matter also confirmed that the cia received similar instructions. as part of the tasking, the intelligence agencies were asked to determine what the w.h.o. knew about two research labs

studying coronavirus in wuhan where the virus was first observed. the move comes as the secretary of state mike pompeo focuses on china's ability to contain the virus shortly after it emerged. a lot of questions about china's behavior here. joining us now from beijing, janis mackey frayer who recently sat done with china's vice foreign minister. what did you find out? >> reporter: there are a lot of questions about what china knew and when it knew it and allegations that it has withheld information, delayed releasing information, even suppressing whistleblowers. all of these questions have lingered pretty much since the beginning of the outbreak. and it is now when the virus appears to be under control here that china is now shifting tact and launching more of an information control offensive to

try to shape public opinion to shape how the world views its response to the virus. not only applauding what it was able to do to get the case numbers down, but also taking issue with weaknesses in other places in particular the united states. they have come out swinging. it is quite an aggressive and assertive strategy on the part of foreign affairs officials. we sat down with the executive vice foreign minister, he is seen as a rising star within china's government here, to put some of these issues to him. mainly whether -- how china views calls for compensation, for accountability, and for an independent investigation. here's what he had to say. >> translator: those demands for reparations from china are not reasonable and they have no legal basis and in fact i think there is no difference between such demands and blackmail.

the attempts to shift blame to china for some countries or some people's own inadequate responses will find little support and end up nowhere. >> reporter: those inadequate responses are of course china's view of how the u.s. has handled the pandemic for americans. when i asked the minister whether mens could believe t-- could believe the numbers out of china, he said yes, 100% absolutely they can be trusted. and he dismisses that china withheld anything. he believes that china has been transparent, that from the time that the city of wuhan was locked down on the 23rd of february until the middle of march when the u.s. declared its national state of emergency, that there was plenty of information, there was plenty of warning and more than enough time. >> janis mackey frayer, thank you so much. and coming up on "morning joe," a new report says the world

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were you getting warnings in your -- >> i would have to check. i want to look as to the exact dates of warnings. but i can tell you this, when i did the ban on china, almost everyone was against me including republicans. they thought it was far too harsh, that it wasn't necessary. professionals, republicans and democrat, almost everybody disagreed and that was done very early. i think that we saved -- whether it was luck, talent or something else, we saved many thousands of lives. and anthony said that and you were saying that and a lot of people said it. i think that you would have a much different situation right now if we didn't do the ban with. >> you know, it is really hard to say because 430,000 people came in from china to the united states from the beginning of the pandemic's outbreak and another 40,000 came in even after. and while he said everybody said

it was too tough, no, a lot of people said there were loopholes in it, worried about the loopholes. 40,000 people came in from china even after that ban. now, there have been a lot of people out there that were critical of the ban. i've got no problem with that. i just wish that when health officials also told him at the same time that he needed to implement a travel ban against italy and the rest of europe, i wish the president would have listened to his health care advisers instead of steve mnuchin. steve mnuchin? >> my god. >> he listened to steve mnuchin because steve mnuchin said that travel ban from europe would spook the markets. well, guess what, the markets went down anyway. and while the president waited from the end of january when his health officials were asking him to implement a travel ban from europe, he waited until march, what, 10th, 11th? all of those travelers from

europe came and the impact on new york city was absolutely devastating. if you just look at the studies, history will all play this out, but anyway, that was president trump yesterday when asked about the "washington post" reporting of numerous coronavirus warnings in his daily presidential briefing. >> joining us now, president and founder of eurasia group and editor-at-large for "time" magazine, ian bremer. and president and ceo of the international rescue committee, david miliband is joining us as well. it is great to have you both with us. >> and alex, i understand that we have breaking economic news, the gdp? what is the exact -- it shrank 4.8%. so ian, let me begin with you. we actually do find ourselves in

a difficult position with china because here is a country that we're supposed to share the global stage with over the next 50 years. and their leaders are talking like the soviet union talked 50 years ago. as if we don't have the internet, as if we don't have xerox machines, as if we don't have the ability to communicate, as if we don't know what happened in china as this outbreak was ravaging their country. they were lying to the world. they were persecuting doctors who were whistleblowers. and they were not cooperating with the united states. what do we do? >> well, it is certainly true that right now internationally the chinese are doing a little better than the americans are at the propaganda war. and the main reason if that is their economy has now functionally gotten back to the supply chain working and a lot of countries are really dependent particularly on those

masks and that equipment while the americans are still largely shut down. so in a put up or shut up kind of world, they have some facts on the grubd right now that matter. but in one year, two years time when the american economy is back running as well and the chinese aren't providing any many for bailouts for countries that desperately need it, that will shift. so the question is really going to be who do you have a better relationship with, americans or chinese. i don't think it is about getting into a fight right now, i think it is more about where our country will be aligned as we're getting through two, three years. worst recession of our lifetime and the presidential election will matter a lot. the willingness of americans to engage with allies as opposed to engaging ourselves. we will be in a strong position. the one thing that is really interesting, tech companies are by far the most important right now to get our economy moving and get it restarted. we have stronger tech companies, our allies really don't have any. the banks are going to be under

a lot of pressure. ours are in much better shape and the europeans and others. so it is not like the united states our power has suddenly gone away, it is just not doing ghig with it on the international stage. but right now china is leaning into it and that is what we have to address. >> david, let's talk about -- david miliband, let's talk about your concerns that we may see a billion coronavirus victims worldwide, a billion people infected by this disease. tell me how that would impact countries in africa, countries in latin america, countries across the globe that we didn't talk about as much. we talk about china, italy, europe, the united states. but what about these underreported countries? >> thanks, joe. this number isn't plucked out of the air. we've taken the imperial college of london and world health organization technical statistics and run them for the

34 countries that the international rescue committee works in. we're a humanitarian charity, we help people displaced by war and conflict around the world. and when you run that data, and you put in some pretty conservative estimates, you see that the range is between 500 and a billion people across sub saharan africa, in the middle east and in south asia. when you then take a very generous assumption, even if you assume all those countries had chinese levels of hospital care, that is how you get the 1.5 million to 3 million deaths. of course the truth is in countries like south sudan where there are only four ventilators for the whole country and there are 11 million people, they have nothing like chinese levels of hospital care. so we've tried to issue this warning that this is the first emergency for 20 or 30 years where u.s. money is not going into organizations with people on the front lines. so we're trying to issue a call

to congress and the straiksz administration to say, yes, focus on the home front, but this disease will never be beaten, never a proper return to normality until it is beaten everywhere and the most vulnerable countries are at risk of a rampage if we don't get our act together in the next few weeks. >> david, this is willie. good to see you this morning. you're right that we've talked mostly about the developed world starting in china and south korea and japan moving toward europe and then of course to the united states and not enough attention has been paid to places like south sudan, places across africa and south america. what are you viewing at the irc as sort of the progression of this disease, of this outbreak, when will it start to take hold in places like africa? >> that is a great point. nice to see you too. look, the disease hasn't run rampant yet. and i sat down with my health people on friday and said where is it. and they said that it is definitely there. the test fg isning isn't showin full scale of it yet.

only 3600 people found to have the disease. our health experts reckon we've got two, three, maybe four weeks to to prdo preventive work. so may is a critical month to get the basic hand washing facilities in place, to get the fever testing and some modd ddyd com of social distancing. so we have a little bit of time. but the density of the population in refugee camps and misbla misplaced people is four or five times of the people in new york. so the potential for it to run ravage is very significant indeed with underlying health conditions that make them vulnerable. >> so eagian, let's talk about news that came out today. "the guardian" says the longest economic expansion in u.s.

history came to an end wednesday when the commerce department announced the economy shrank 4.8% in the first four months of the year. i know when donald trump comes on, he says we'll come back, we'll be stronger than ever. he of course undercuts his own arguments time and time again. but i wonder if you agree with those who say that we're going to be in an economic downturn for a very long time as we move forward, or if you agree with sort of my instinct is that we will get out of this. it is going to be a tough year, maybe a tough year and a half. but for all of our problems like you said, our companies, our tech companies, our banks, we're better positioned to move out of this and to have our economy accelerate i think than any country on the planet. >> joe, we are. that is absolutely true.

our energy companies and our production, our food production, i mean all of these things stand us in much better said than the europeans who could face an existential crisis. how do you possibly get the countries in the south for example to become productive and grow again. the challenge is that we already had a better economy before this economic crisis. you will be taking an additional 10% to 15% out of the labor force. and i don't know how a lot of them are coming back. it is not the knowledge economy. every ceo i talk to, american fortune 500 ceo is telling me how they can make more money with fewer people in the next five to ten years and how they will have to look very carefully at those deficiencies. we can say as we give stimulus that you have to invest more in the united states, that you have to ensure that there is more

capital here, more jobs. but you i think if you thought inequality was a problem, anti-establishment sentiment was a problem last year, you ain't seen nothing. and i think the ability of our government it really change the social safety net after we run a deficit of 20 plus percent of gdp this year will be really, really challenging. it is not about the dollar, it is not about the markets which right now the s&p was trading yesterday back at september 2019 levels. our fed is doing an awesome job. people believe in our companies. but the average american is not feeling it and will be in a materially worse position in my view come 2020. >> ian bremer and david miliband, thank you both for coming on the show this morning. majority leader mitch mcconnell says when senators return to washington next week, the focus will be on judges and not the coronavirus. joining us now, democratic senator chris coons of delaware. he is a member of the senate

foreign relations and judiciary committees. thank you for joining us. >> the focus on judges and not jobs. senator, let me read you another paragraph from this guardian article. senior economic adviser to the white house predicted gdp could fall at an annualized rate of 30% next quarter and goldman sachs expects a 15% unemployment rate by mid year. what in the world can the united states senate, what in the world can the white house, what in the world can the federal government do to help move us through this economic calamity? >> well, joe, what you are seeing right now is the consequences of a failure to respond promptly and to plan adequately two to three months ago to the emergence of this pandemic. and we're now seeing a discoordinated sometimes even chaotic federal response and a whole lot of states playing

catchup and whac-a-mole trying to deliver the testing, the personal protective equipment, the ventilators that we should have had ready months ago. we should now if we return next week to the senate be dealing with those issues that have to be addressed now that have to b addressed now in order for us to be in a better position months from now. we should not be coming back from washington whose age puts most senators in the highly vulnerable category, and for all the workers that would have to come to work, we should be concerned about the capitol police officers, the folks who help makes the complex work. we should be worried about protecting them, and should be focused on the things that have to be down to prepare for six months from now. i have a bill with senator klobuchar and senator wyden for

safe vote by mail, so when the virus comes back more aggressively, which is predicted by dr. fauci and others, we can vote safely and we should be raptly turning on our national service network across the country, 75,000 young people dedicated to service through americorps who could be deployed as the contact tracing workforce for our country. those are just two suggestions. there's a lot more we could and should be doing about job creation, about economic revitalization, about making sure or federal response is as coordinated as our workers and families deserve. >> senator coons, willie geist, good to have you on the show this morning. we have a number on the bottom of the screen, that the economy shall rank by nearly 5% in the first quarter of the year. as joe also said, that number in the second quarter will be much, much worse by all estimates, somewhere between 30% and 40% in

the second quarter that the economy has shrunk. what are you saying in the short term, and i've asked this of a lot of legislators and law makers, what are you saying to people in your state they understand the risks of going back to work, they understand the risk of opening their societies, but they say i can't survive like this, i need my job, my small business to open. where do you see the balance between public health and saving the economy? >> well, first, willie, i'm in regular with our governor john carney who is relying on the doctor, the public health official who is the head of our division of public health. he made the hard decision to close our schools and businesses early. he has been coordinating across our health providers, but one that's been crippled by a

coordinated response, a constructed role by fema, a coordinated response in terms of testing. like most senators i've been talking to, i've been getting calls morning, noon and night from people i've known back in my days in county government, small businesses, small government, who struggled to get access to the sba program we passed nearly a month ago and the c.a.r.e.s. acts, or those struggling to get unemployment insurance because of the antiquated i.t. systems. we are looking hard to make sure folks get the resource we appropriated federally, but it's frankly just not enough so far. what i'm saying is we need to listen to science, we need to be patient and hopeful, but if we open too quickly and if we open in a way we're not prepared for, with full testing and contact tracing it, the at the

consequences could be catastroph catastrophic. >> senator, tell us about your push to expand national service, and how that enhances or contributes to do fight against the virus or this time that america is going through. >> well, mika, as you may recall, i launched and ran one of the first national direct americorps programs back in the '90s. i had 115 members serving, and i saw how highly motivated and capable they were as they worked tutoring kids in inner city schools. today there's 75,000 at the present time all across our country working in americorps programs. there are state commissions ahmet over the country that help supervise and fund in partnership with local nonprofits and local governments organizations that do all sorts of great things. some of them are known to many of your viewers, teach for america, habitat for humanity,

public allies. many of those folks, we know three things. they have signed up to do taupe national service, and they're connected to communities interested in volunteerism and service, and most of their programs are on hold. a bill i've been advancing with a group of democrats and there's been some strong interest by republicans, would double the size of aamerica corps, recruit and fund and support a whole new generation of young americans dedicated to national service and would rapidly stand up a workforce of 150,000 people who could do the contact tracing and test support that we so badly need in order to be able to reopen safely. most governors and mayors are looking for the right solution to this problem. i think in americorps we've got it. so far in conversations with the head of the cdc and the head of the corporation for national service that runs and services

americorps, they've been very positive and quite interested in the solution. >> senator chris coons, thank you so much. we'll see you again soon, i hope. >> thank you so much. kentucky governor andy beshear held a briefing on monday that spoke about the work the state is doing to quickly respond to the unemployment. he brought of a kentuckyian, and -- >> we had somebody apply for unemployment for tupac shakur here in kentucky. they probably thought they were they were being funny, but because of them we have to go through so many other claims, one person thinking they were funny, using somebody else's identity is going to make tens of thousands of other people bait. i owe somebody an apology tonight.

last night i spent a bit of time talking about fraudulent claims holding us up, mentioned an individual that filed in the name of tupac shakur. i didn't know, and it's my fault, that we have a kentuckians, who goes by malik, whose name is tupac shakur. i spoke to him on the phone today. i apologize. >> he reports that attitumalik as a cook before the restrictions shut down the restaurant where he was working and has been waiting to receive his check. >> willie, beware mocking p. diddy when he applies for unemployment. >> tupac malik shakur of lexingt lexington, kentucky, said, wait a minute, that's my name, and the governor did the right

thing, called mr. shakur, apologized to him, and shah dire said he appreciated the yes, sir further and forgave the governor, but he goes by the name malik, like a lot of people in the country, is a cook, hurting, laid off from hi jobs and that led to that moment right there. i thought a good job by the governor quickly correcting a mistake. >> yeah, on friday iowa governor kim reynolds said refusing an offer to go back to work is considered a voluntary quit and therefore they would not be eligible for unemployment money. the situation is similar for workers in texas, according to the texas workforce commission to qualify for unemployment benefits in that state, a workers must be willing and able to work all the days and hours required for the type of work you are seeking. a spokesman for the commission told the "texas tribune" employees who choose not to

return to work will become ineligible to unemployment benefits. i don't know. come on, what's going on? >> that republican governors and senators and politicians and talk show hosts can't hurt themselves and their political standing any more. they rise up and do exactly that. >> that was another headline where you're like, am i reading this correctly? and yes, that's a direct quote from the governor of iowa. remarkable and extraordinary, and this pain underlined by the number of that number. it's going to be exponentially worse in the second quarter between 30% and 40% bring most estimates. you look at the polls we showed at the beginning of the day, mika, americans are recognizing who is trying to help them, who is trying to keep them safe, who is trying to get their unemployment benefits.

it's not just democrats. you have governors in ohio like governor dewine. governors in maryland also doing a great job as well, and those governors, like governor whit mer, the democrat in michigan, and of course gavin newsom, those governors and those leaders, both republican and democratic alike, will be rewarded and those -- not only hurt her standing, but obviously puts iowa back in play. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> hi there. it is wednesday, april 29th here are the facts this hour. more than 1 million americans have been diagnosed with the coronavirus and more than 58,000 have died. americans are still dies at a

rate of more