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hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. donald trump pushing the public opinion equivalent of a bolder up a hill today with his cheerleading with nondata reopening in the face of shortage of testing. new poll of american public keeping the stay at home order in face. 85 pkts don't think it's wise to open schools without further testing. the president this week prodded governors to reopen this school year. 80% oppose dining in restaurants. yesterday, trump cheered texas on its reopening plan. 65% of americans oppose a return to the workplace without testing. while trump continues to spin and parse and outright lie about the country's testing capacity. the washington post reports,

quote, plan for a swift reopening of malls, factories and other businesses accelerated tuesday, but they quickly collided with the reality that persuading workers and consumers to overlook their coronavirus fears and resume their roles in powering the american economy may prove difficult.dictment fo pushed himself out of a leadership role that he craves by lying. the "the new york times" writes this, with more and more states ready to resume some semblance of normal life the messages from mr. trump and his administration at times has appeared confused. case in point, here's trump

contradicted by tony fauci almost in realtime. >> now that our experts believe the worst days of the pandemic are behind us, americans are looking forward to the safe and rapid reopening of our country. >> if we're unsuccessful or prematurely try to open up, and we have additional outbreaks that are out of control it could be a rebound to get us back in the same boat that we were in a few weeks ago. >> is this going to go away. whether it comes back in a modified form in the fall we'll be able to handle it. >> it's not going to disappear from the planet. which means, as we get into next season, in my mind, it's inevitable that we'll have a return of the virus or maybe it never went away. when it does, how we handle it

will determine our fate. if by that time we have put into place all of the counter measures that you need to address this we should do reasonably well. if we don't do that successfully, we could be in for a bad fall and a bad winter. >> stunning difference of perspectives. today, dr. fauci and donald trump putting the stark difference to the side for a few minutes coming together. saying a new drug called remsdevir. it doesn't necessarily mean that we declare victory against coronavirus any time soon. that study is yet to be peer reviewed. other studies of the same drug

found no benefits. the threat of the virus is diminished and our ability to test for the virus better than what trump has been able to produce so far. that's where we start with our friends. dr. peter hotez. white house reporter for the washington post, ashley parker. and ron klain is here. dr. hotez, can you take us through this new development? who is it for? and how do we know it will work for everything. >> the drug works by interfering with the production of rna. the covid-19 virus. the sars 2ally designed with the

viruses in mind. they released very exciting information that it seems to be shortening the length of illness in the u.s. it's tempered by a study published in lancelet saying it's not working, a slight difference in the number of days of hospitalizations. we have to iron out those differences. you have to compare the two studies. the drug was given later on in the course of the virus in china. earlier in u.s. most anti-viral drugs work better early on in the course of the virus. but so far, the data coming out of the u.s. looks promising. this is an intraven ooshous dru. >> fingers crossed on that.

ashley parker, it's the kind of news that a white house that didn't stand it 23% to 32% correct with the broader american public could really tout and create this moment of hope for the country but the president's conduct in the past weeks has him down at some of to lowest public trust numbers of his presidency. >> and that's one of the challenges for this president is combatting a pandemic is very much about the public health aspect but it's also about having credibility. it's about messaging. it's about if you're the president or a public health official and you step up to that lectern and you tell the public we recommend you wear masks. and here's why you social distance. conversely, it's safe to go back to your local restaurant and here's why, people have to trust you.

and the president in particular has lost a lot of that credibility because of things he has said from that white house briefing room. the charitable explanation for a bit of it is, he wants to give the nation hope. but when he touted hi hydroxychloroquine when there was no evidence that made people question if he knew what he was talking about. and when he goes out there and he says, you know, the recommendation is to wear a mask but i myself won't be wearing a mask, when the vice president goes on a tour of the mayo clinic when they asked him specifically to wear a mask and he doesn't wear a mask, it models bad behavior and it adds to this credibility gap. >> you know, ron, klain, it's also, when a white house has a major debacle as donald trump did, there will be forever

donald trump on camera recommend that doctors take a look at having patients inject bleach into their lungs. what happened afterwards, donald trump and anthony fauci could not have sounded more discordant on a second wave. donald trump saying, nothing to see here, it's behind us. >> i mean, nicolle, people are waiting for donald trump to change. he hasn't changed in three years. he hasn't changed over the course of this response. he tried to happy talk the thing away in january, in february, in march, trying to happy talk the thing away in april. the problem is, it's led to a lack of preparation. that's why we don't have the tests. to give people the confidence to go back to work, to go back to

school. why we don't have confidence with the medical information the white house is telling us. it's a consumer confidence economy. if they can open all the businesses they want to open, the consumers aren't going to show up unless they have confidence. >> well, ashley, to ron's point, i haven't seen the president's so at odds with public sentiment at any other point like this in his presidency, 58% of people who don't think it's a good idea of open schools. president trump said governors should look at that yesterday. donald trump was in the rose garden about how he talked

peopabout people play sports, that's what they do. i mean, he has opened up one of the widest gulfs between what he wants and what he says and what the public wants and is willing to do. >> one of the reasons you're seeing some of this whiplash from the white house because the president for instance will hear from his economic advisers, from some of his business executive friends, from socially conservative groups that we need to get the country back to work and the economy reopened and there's the hard truth of the public polling. the public is much as they are worried about the economic impacts of this pandemic and to be sure they are, they're more worried still about their own health and their own safety and they generally prefer a slower route to reopening. and so the president will say, one thing and he'll be shown, you know, public polling data,

private polling data, you know what they don't want to go back to nail and hair salons in georgia. he says things that seem cotra dictionariry because he's reacting minute to minute to polls. the polls matter to him. it's a political problem for him and he's counting on the economy starting to recover before election day, i think it's a pretty big open question if it will. when the public is not aligned with him, that for him is a political problem and he's acutely aware of that. >> dr. hotez, i want to ask you about testing. one of the ways he squandered his credibility. when he was at the cdc he said,

everyone who wants a test can have a test. that's not true. the head of the task force told time magazine, quote, there's absolutely no way on earth, on this planet, that we can do 20 million tests a day or even 5 million tests a day, quote, no way on earth that we can run 5 million tests a day, why not? >> well, remember, it's not only a problem of the testing, it's how we -- it's how we do the testing. it's not just the numbers. if a person is going to be returning to the workplace, that's what the economy is all about in the end, whether it's going back to work at target or a law firm, the person needs to know that the colleague next to him doesn't have covid-19 infection.

that requires a test that's easily done, such as a saliva-based test. you can't wait two, three days for the result. you have to have a pretty det l detailed system of contact tracing in place. then, you need a system of syndromic surveillance of areas where this virus is emerging in your city and a communication plan for it all. those are four elements that have to be in place in i every major metropolitan area. and we're just not close to that. what will happen, you'll open up the economy and have people going back to work and unless you have those things in place, can ramp up in the next few weeks, few months, lot of the models say this covid-19 will be back especially in densely populated areas in july and august according to the new

models out of children's hospital of philadelphia. i'm very concerned we're on a collision course in the nation and we need to figure this out very quickly. >> you know, ron, no doubt it's incredibly complicated but this country has done incredibly complicated before. i want to show you some tape of donald trump and his obsession and his association with the numbers in his view of his own conduct and ask you, if you think this has anything to do why there's not widespread testing. let's watch. >> i like the numbers being where they are. i don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship. that wasn't our fault. it wasn't the fault of the people on the ship, either. okay, it wasn't their fault either. they're mostly americans. i can live either way with it. i'd rather have them stay on,

personally. >> that was donald trump's explanation for not bringing a cruise ship with many infected passengers on to our shore because he doesn't want the numbers to go up. he doesn't invoke the defense production act. to get the testing, where he says he wants it because he doesn't want to know what the numbers are? >> nicolle, it's a combination of three things. that's the first thing, i think the president has undercounter, down play the disease and if you test and if you find it, we certainly have much more of it than the million cases we officially counted then that will drive the numbers up. i think the second thing is, just incompetence, a lot of incompetence around this. bad decisions, bad leadership, bad coordination that have plagued this problem. i think the third thing is ideology. i think the president doesn't want to use the full powers of

the office to command the private sector to produce these tests because how he thinks that's socialism or something crazy like this. you put these together, that has been a deadly combination for our country. >> ron klain, dr. peter hotez, ashley parker, thank you for starting us off. when we come back -- donald trump's pandemic failures fails to translate to the people he leads. the day after news broke about the president being warned in his pdb by the threat posed by coronavirus, nbc news is out with new reporting about the direction to intelligence community to investigate china. if you build it, will they still come? major league baseball looking for some way, some how to play

ball this year. all those stories coming up. the? with right at home, it doesn't. right at home's professional team thoughtfully selects caregivers to help with personal care, housekeeping, meals - and most of all, staying engaged - in life. oh, thank you, thank you. you're welcome. are you ready to go? oh, i sure am. we can provide the right care, right at home.

i was wondering if you had spoken to the families of anyone who else have lost loved ones to covid-19. any particular stories that having affected you? >> i know many stories. i have spoken to three, maybe four families. unrelated to me. i lost a very good friend. i also lost three other friends. people did i business with and probably almost everybody in the room did and it's -- it's a bad death. it's not -- it's a bad thing. we found out that young people do extraordinarily well. that's why i think that's why we can start thinking about

schools. computer learning is not the same thing as being in a classroom in a great college or a college of any kind. >> self-portrait of america. you know what it spells? it spells love. we received thousands of masks from all across america. a little bit more of this and a little bit less of the partisanship and the ugliness and this country would be a better place. >> two leaders, both given a chance, open questions about how they deal with the nation. governor cuomo's's case the state in mourning. those clips in the last 24 hours. they're symptomatic of how each have been handling this crisis for months.

joining our conversation democratic strategist smikel and a.b. any two minutes of donald trump and any two minutes of governor cuomo, anybody else who's dealing with people and states and economic despair and the loss of loved ones the contrast would have been just as stark. >> it's incredible to watch the president when he has those briefings because he's usually reads a really nice statement that somebody wrote for him on his staff and he often expresses some empathy for people who have lost loved ones. he said even one is too much. but as you were discussing before he's a numbers-focused person and he believes these numbers are some kind of sign of weakness, they make him

defensive. and pretending that we have tested everyone so much and that's why other countries don't test. but he directly aligns everything to ratings of his performance so he doesn't really do empathy. from that clip from yesterday, it's true he lost a good friend. it would be so remarkable for the president to talk about that. what it's like to die alone when nobody can be with you at the end for fear of exposure to covid-19. this is the kind of thing that andrew cuomo continues to do which is made people couldn't stand to listen to him before make him hang on his every word because he's talking so much about a journey it is, what it's like for the frontline workers. he often says things like, blame

me, i wish i could do better. i don't know. he's incredibly humbled and he's incredibly hurt. >> you know, it strikes me that you become president by simply doing better than your opponent on two metrics. strong leader. and do they think you understand their problems? donald trump's current standing as the leader of this country is i think in many polls the lowest of his presidency because of numbers and more nagging and harder to recover from is this inability to sort of see what we're seeing, to feel what we're seeing, i can barely read the

numbers of infections and deaths without getting a lump in our throat. we end every show by doing at couple of obituaries. i haven't heard him talk about a single life from that person's family because of this horrible disease. i mean, is it a capacity thing? is it the white house staff's ignorance? because this isn't just on him. it's on the white house staff to tell the president what they should do. what's your explanation or working theory? >> no, i think it's a combination of things. a president who's unable and incapable of understanding the human toll and a number of staffers who should be needling him and encouraging him to talk about it. either they're not doing that or they don't have the strength of -- within the office to push him to do it. in terms of my immediate family

and friends, everybody's okay. there are ten people who i know that lost their lives to this virus. they died within 2 1/2 week period. there's a -- there's a need for a leader to be able to tap into that. he's presiding over a country that's dejected and despirited and she should be able to be as a leader to understand what we're going through, what the students are going through who can't be in school right now, many of whom are homeless and don't have the right access to technology to engage in distant learning. there are so many ways that this virus has impacted communities that will never be the same afterwards that he fails to grasp. despite his penchant for capacity.

if he was able to come out and say, look, i really understand what's going on, start repeating those stories in the same way that andrew cuomo did, then i think it would go a long way for the american people. there's this inability to do this. as we go forward, as we choose our president this fall that we'll behold whoever we choose accountable not only for the behavior of themselves but the people around them that doesn't get the same level of attention. but it should particularly after this pandemic. >> i'm sorry for the loss of ten people they know. what would they like to hear? >> you know, i think they would just want some calming words about not just where we are but where we're going. what's your vision for the future? what can they hold on to give them the hope that we're going to be okay at the end of this.

you know, i was here duringable 9/11. rudy giuliani stepped up on the plate on that day through that crisis and i think people have this -- voters in america have this incredibly ability to forgive if you -- if you present yourself as a person who can transcend the past and give them a way forward. this president just has not done that. >> a.b., i want to ask you to pick up on this idea of this extraordinary sort of public support around doing the things that keep our communities safe at the cost of most of our economic security, you've got 85% of americans that say it's too soon to go back to school, that's the opposite of what the president is pushing, 91% say we shouldn't go back to large

events, sporting e.s, 65% don't want to go back into the workplace until there's testing. there's no testing. i mean, what do you make -- i mean the public at this point in the trump presidency has kind of gone rogue. >> it's so amazing that we're talking about empathy and how integral it is to leadership and he's not showing empathy through this worst crisis most of us have lived through in our lifetimes. but he also isn't telling the truth. those words of hope and a vision for something better down the road that basil is referring to, the president is always trying to will this quote, victory, unbelievable economic growth. we know it's not going to be

fantastic. his son said they reached every milestone, that this has been a great success, the data is on their side and everybody has tests. nobody has tests. i counted on monday. we were behind 40 other nations per capita. today we're behind 42. it doesn't matter how many tests you given, it matters testing the population. we barely tested 2%. we don't know where the disease is, we can't have a hopeful road in july, september, because we still have no idea what we're doing. we haven't begun to talk about tracing, which is going to be incredibly difficult to do. states can't do it on their own. he's not bridging into this medium space a real reckoning, a conversation with the american people about what's expected of us and you know people know he's

not listening to their fears. 80% know we're not safe to rush back out to restaurants. you can't be emphatic and you can't read the population you can't read your citizens, it's remarkable if you listen to what he and jared kushner, the second most powerful person in the government are telling people who are terrified. >> it's such an important point. empathy and dishonesty can't co-exist. one repels the other. a.b. and basil, thank you so much for baring your souls in this conversation. up next -- president trump ordering the intel community to investigate china. is there more to this story? that's our question next. at's ot

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the white house is ordering intelligence agencies to put a spotlight on china by combing through communications intercepts, satellite imagery and other data in order to establish whether they or the w.h.o. hid what they knew about the emerging coronavirus in its early stages. from nbc news exclusive report it, a specific tasking seeking information about the outbreak early days was sent last week to the national security agency. the cia has received similar instructions according to current and former officials familiar with the matter. critics wonder if this tasking of american intel agencies is fueled on part of president trump's desire to shift blame. he made a similar suggestion.

>> translator: those demands from china aren't reasonable and they have no legal basis. in fact, there's no difference between such demands and blackmail. the attempts to shift blame to china for some people's own inadequate response will find little support. >> let's bring in former chief of staff for the cia, jeremy bash. jeremy, i'm all for understanding what china did and i read the washington post reporting from greg miller and his colleagues saying that the intelligence community did just that as early as january and february. isn't that where we are? >> nicolle, two ways to view this. one, it's legitimate for a president to ask a question of his intelligence community, it's normally done through the pdb process, saying, hey, look, tomorrow or the next day, can you come in with a written document or briefer and answer

my questions, what did china know and when did they know? >> if on the other hand donald trump is trying to frame china by forcing the intelligence community to con contact false information that's not going to work. the intelligence community isn't going to play ball. i think it bears in mind of repeating a couple of things, multiple times during january and february donald trump praised china on january 22nd after he signed the trade deal, he hailed the trade deal on january 24th, he said i want to praise xi jinping, they're being transparent. here clearly i think this is 180 by the president because he's feeling the heat about the results here in the united states. >> i mean, that or the president was shown a copy of his pdb on january 24th, january 27th and february 7th, said all three are

likely to come out. i also understand from news organizations that the administration had employees, people who worked for the president imbedded at the world health organization, wouldn't they be sources of actually what was going on? >> i think that's a good point. even more broadly, nicolle, a program that president obama had put in place cdc program called predict, in which the cdc had people deployed all over the world including in china. this administration eviscerated that program. most of that information is going to come from open source information or from other relationships that we have with medical organizations on the ground or other health organizations, if we don't organizations like cdc providing our government with information, there's nothing for our

intelligence community to analyze. it's possible they could pick up sensitive intelligence about china trying to cover up what they did. it appears that had been part of the president's briefings all along. >> so here's a question for you, why today? i mean, if the president wanted to know what china did why did he wait until 56,000 americans died? >> that's just it, nicolle. the president is reacting here to the reporting, the fresh reporting that showed he was warned ample -- many times by the intelligence community. because, again, let's think about what donald trump said and did in january and february. not only did he praise china, in the middle of february, nicolle, he fired joe maguire the acting

dni, the deputy. and so he's clearly been trying to move aside career professionals who would give him just the facts he wants people in there who will tell him that he can use in a press conference to bolster his argument that it was china that created this whole mess and not taking responsibility for the problems he also created. >> unbelievable development. jeremy bash, we're so grateful to have you talk us through it. after the break, a nation starved for sports, some potentially good news this afternoon from major league baseball. our friend mike lupica joins us with that. s with that. when you shop for your home at wayfair

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fine, no one leaves the tablefine, we'll sleep here. ♪ it's the easiest because it's the cheesiest. kraft. for the win win. i hope that there's some form of baseball this summer even if it's just tv. and i do that for -- i feel that strongly, one, because i'm an avid baseball fan. but also, i mean, it's for the country's mental health to have, you know, the great american pastime be seen. >> dr. fauci giving all of sports fans a little bit of hope there. seeing our favorite baseball players back in game. usa today is reporting, quote, major league baseball officials have become cautiously optimistic this week that the season will start in late june,

no later than july 2nd. even though the games wouldn't have fans in the stadiums, it's a step and sports fans are clearly clamoring for new content. the first two episodes of the espn's michael jordan documentary "the last dance" averaged 5.9 million viewers. joining our conversation, columnist for mlb.com, mike lupica. first of all, do you think baseball's happening in some capacity? >> nicolle, if it got into the atmosphere today i think it's a serious story the most optimistic have been that we're going to see baseball in the summer, they're talking about 100-game season. games with no fans. florida, texas, arizona. but at this point it would be tremendously and profoundly worth it to sports fans.

you know, every time we talk about the new more manormal in sports, it's not going to cure anyone who's sick with this thing but it's going to create the oddest sense of community. it will make people feel a littleless alone and a little more glad that they can look at something that makes them remember what the old normal was like in this world. >> i mean the other side of it is, i agree with all that. there are a lot of people at home watching television. we benefit from that dynamic ourselves, i mean, there's a television audience for all the baseball that they can figure out how to play, have they taken a look at that? >> i think they have. again, i spoke to the commissioner a few weeks ago and

he said they have literally explored hundreds of possible scenarios to get the game back on the field and i think the endgame would be even if it does start in florida, texas and arizona, to get the game back to the home stadiums before the end of this shortened regular season. one of my favorite parts of this, i saw today they may reconfigure the divisions so the mets and yankees might be in the same division which would be kind of fun. >> i think everybody has a story like that depending on where you live. talk about -- you talked about a little bit, i worked in the white house on 9/11 when the country was brought back in large part what remain of that baseball season. talk about the history of sports bringing people back. >> first of all, one of the most exciting things that i have seen in sports was the first pitch by george w. bush a perfect throw.

everybody cheered that moment that he walked out on that mound, in that world series, being played in the shadow of 9/11, and what i have always said about those games after 9/11, they didn't change anything at the time, either, but for a few hours every night, whether it was the night mike piazza hit the home run at shea stadium, for just a little while they could pretend and trick themselves into thinking that time it was september 10th or september 9th. again, sports or baseball, for a few hours every night it will make people feel a little better about stuff. >> i mean, i think that's the

spirit. lot of people love michael jordan and the espn's the last dance is excellently do you th? >> i have watched every single minute of it. anybody who's ever read my column knows, michael jordan was the main event for me. i saw him make the shot to win his national championship for north carolina. i saw him all the way to the end when he was with the washington wizards at the age of 40. michael jordan was the main event. and nicole, people would have watched this anyway, okay? because it's michael. and michael is the most compelling, international athlete since mohammad ali. and you know what else was great about michael, until this thing? he might have been the last athlete who didn't think an unspoken thought was a felony. he actually kept stuff to himself. and that's why seeing him in this show, i assume that that might be an adult beverage next

to him, and hearing him say these things. and people say, is that him? i said, that's him, exactly. so this thing has been a riot to see how engaged people are by this documentary. >> it's really -- it's -- i think you're right. people would have watched it anyway. but i think the fact that it's got kind of a cult following, the way that tiger show does, which gave me nightmares, by the way. i'm glad "the last dance" came along. mike, always fun to talk to you. thanks for spending some time with us. after the break, doing our part to honor the victims of coronavirus. part to honor the victims of coronavirus. no uh uh, no way come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card.

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- [female vo] restaurants are facing a crisis. and they're counting on your takeout and delivery orders to make it through. grubhub. together we can help save the restaurants we love. it's been 99 days since the first confirmed case of coronavirus in the u.s. since then, it's killed more americans than died in the vietnam war. let's talk about a few of the victims. debora gatewood of detroit was close to retirement.

she'd worked at the same hospital for 31 years, so when she got sick, she went to her own hospital to get care. the coronavirus tests were scarce and gatewood tried and failed four times to get one from her own employer. in the photo you're seeing on screen, that's debora's daughter, kala. it's a small comfort, but kala was able to say good-bye to her mother at her bedside. brenda southern's family wasn't so lucky. her son was on the phone with a doctor trying to get an update on their health when a hospital attendant came in to say she had passed. out of the blue, two nurses commented on a facebook post, they were there, they said, and held her hand when it happened. so we'll remember brenda for the three-word phrase she repeated to her son in her final days, the only words she could get out over the phone, "hello, love you." and finally, love was a big theme for 90-year-oldgerta

gertagerbotski. she lost her mother to cancer and the rest of her family in the holocaust. she escaped to england without knowing any english, but the home she fled to was bombed. she ended up here in the u.s. and as if the world hadn't thrown enough at her, she got breast cancer and then she beat it. her grandson wants us all to know she loved her family, two daughters, four great grandchildren. she had an affinity for butterflies. if you see one today, think ofgerta and all the others victims lost to this pandemic. thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we're grateful. our coverage continues with chuck todd right after a quick break. ontinues with chuck todd right after a quick break. and we are here, actively supporting you and your community. every day, we're providing trusted information from top health experts...sharing tools to help protect families from fraud...

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in the midst of this national trauma, so must have our fellow americans are rising to the occasion. with their words and their deeds serving as a crucial reminder that in this time of stress and capacity, we really are all in this together. capacity, we realn this together. >> we see all of these people and they're broken and frankly, so are we. >> depression, exhaustion, and weariness on the part of the health care workers themselves. >> a friend of mine took his life because of some issues he was dealing with related to this whole viral pandemic. >> it's hard not to take every