national trauma, so must have our fellow americans are rising to the occasion. with their words and their deeds serving as a crucial reminder that in this time of stress and capacity, we really are all in this together. capacity, we realn this together. >> we see all of these people and they're broken and frankly, so are we. >> depression, exhaustion, and weariness on the part of the health care workers themselves. >> a friend of mine took his life because of some issues he was dealing with related to this whole viral pandemic. >> it's hard not to take every death personally.

as a sign of your failure. >> i know this is going to hurt a lot of nurses. we're going to need a lot of coaching and counseling after this is over. >> i've seen more death probably now than my entire life. it's been -- it's been really traumatizing. >> i am not able to mentally wrap my head around this, even though i'm on the front line. >> there will be, you know, a letdown phase, absolutely. that will be difficult. that will be difficult. >> we start the show tonight with a look at the psychological toll facing doctors and nurses on the front lines. it's an important and perhaps overlooked part of the story, and we're going to talk more about later in the show. in the same way we have pad ptsd issues with soldiers coming from the front lines of wars in iraq and afghanistan, we may be seeing some more issues here.

welcome to wednesday. it's "meet the press daily." we're going to begin tonight with a hopeful development. it's nice to start with some good news. in the oval office today, the nation's top infectious disease expert, dr. anthony fauci said there is now evidence that there is a drug that does help some patients recover from the virus. >> the data shows that remdesivir has a clear-cut, significant, positive effect in diminishing the time to recovery. it's highly significant. it is a very important proof of concept. because what it is proving is that a drug can block this virus. this is very optimistic. and all of the other trials that are taking place now have a new standard of care. >> but that piece of hopeful news is coming amid so many mixed messages and some unanswered questions about this virus and whether it will be safe to begin reopening the country. the death toll has now passed

60,000. more americans have now died due to the virus than died in the entire vietnam war, with more than a million confirmed cases. there is evidence the virus could be responsible for far more infections and far more deaths than we thought. experts agree, we far short of where we need to be on testing, of course. many of the states reopening do not appear to be following the white house's guidelines to safely do so. leaders in the senate are suggesting it's safe to go back to work, but leaders in the house are cautioning that it's too soon and too dangerous. and dr. fauci cautioned there is no firm timeline for when a potential treatment could be made available or if it will actually prove to be widely effective. so we are caught as a country right now in a patchwork of approaches and mixed messages about what is realistic and what might be reckless. and on the vitally important issue of testing, the white house is all over the place. president trump yesterday claimed we would be able to scale up testing to a level that some experts believe is necessary to reopen the economy. >> some health experts say the

u.s. needs 5 million tests per day by june in order to safely reopen. you unveiled a plan yesterday that will increase testing, but not that by that much. why not and can you get to that bench mark? >> well, it will increase and it will increase it in the very near future. >> you're confident you can get to 5 million tests per day? >> we're going to be there very soon. >> but the person overseeing testing on the white house task force told "time" magazine, quote, there's absolutely no way on earth, on this planet or any other planet, that we can do 5 million tests a day. then today, the president tried to claim he never said what you just heard him say. >> you said we will very soon be testing 5 million -- >> well, i don't know where it came up -- >> you said that. >> everyone kept saying, you said there would be 5. that was a study that came out. a study came out with 5 million. i think we will, but i never sate. i didn't say 5 million.

>> let's now turn to an expert on someone who can shed some light on remdesivir. associate professor of critical care medicine and emergency medicine at the university of pittsburgh. he's been involved in clinical trials to test coronavirus therapies. and folks who follow the medical community nope the university of pittsburgh is one of these leading research facilities there is around the world. so, doctor, let me start with, tell us the basics of remdesivir and who is is this drug for? and at what stage of the virus is it most useful? >> sure. and thanks for having me. so remdesivir is a broad spectrum antiviral medication. it impacts how the virus forms. and therefore, is thought to promote recovery of patients when administered to them. this drug is not for

inflammation or when the body's response to infection injures the host, but really, it tackles the virus itself. the data we learned about today was when remdesivir was given to patients in the hospital, not those who were at home. >> so who is the next step in understanding how effective -- i mean, i guess let me ask you this. this was done for people that were hospitalized. is the next step now using this to treat people when they're getting their symptoms earlier? >> yeah, i don't know that remdesivir is going to be used at home. i think it's probably a medication reserved for the sicker patients that are in the hospital. you know, and we saw from the results -- >> yeah, why -- go ahead, why wouldn't this be something -- why only in the hospital? i'm just curious of that. >> so remdesivir, it's given through a vein. it's called an intravenous medication. and we, you know, would probably

be given first to the sickest patients, and if it shows a benefit to patients with only moderate disease. >> so dr. fauci said the good news about this drug, it's not -- this is not a cure yet, but it creates a new baseline. so does that mean every vaccine tri trial, is there a baseline -- is there something in the drug itself that then could help with some of this vaccine research? >> well, it's a drug for treatment. and the data today is tantalizing that there may be a benefit, particularly for patients to recover faster. but it's just one trial. there are three or four other trials of remdesivir that are enrolling patients across the spectrum of covid-19 with moderate symptoms. and i think we need to wait and see what those results, if they corroborate, what we've been told so far about the data

today. >> what would another trial look like? is it just similar to one that was run? you just do more of them or would you do something different, something bigger? i assume now, any coronavirus patient that's hospitalized is going to get access to remdesivir, correct? >> well, that's certainly on the table. the drug needs to be discussed at the fda, and then we need to understand how much is available to be distributed to the country and to patients that are in need. there is some conflicting data about remdesivir that was released today, as well, from china. and so putting these studies together and really learning all the details will help us understand if this is right for all of our patients. >> i assume there's other therapeutics -- you know, we spend a lot of time talking about the search for a vaccine. we spend a little time talking about therapeutics. we spend a lot of time talking about hydroxychloroquine. what other therapeutic research is out there? because it does seem to me that that's -- that's the most likely

bridge to a vaccine, is it not? >> yeah, we definitely need to keep pursuing clinical trials. so the data from today is encouraging, about remdesivir. but by no means, is it the signal that we should stop testing other therapies. there are treatments such as corticostero corticosteroids, even those addressing how well our blood clots or does not clot, called anticoagulants, that address the entire spectrum of disease from covid-19. it's very unlikely there's a single magic bullet, but rather, a whole cocktail of medications will be required to really show a treatment benefit for these patients. >> well, you are describing, and i think that is why dr. fauci said it was kind of like finding out the first time they had some success with an aids drug. at first it was a cocktail and it was a complicated one. and then, research made it easier and easier to figure out. >> yeah.

i mean, not all covid-19 patients are the same. the time of lung injury they get is quite different. and of course, patients with -- of all different age and kor morbidity are also getting this disease. so we need to understand how well remdesivir or other drugs like it work for different populations and those different patients. >> dr. seymore from the university of pittsburgh, thank you for providing us with your expertise and your knowledge on this topic. you know, look, a green shoot of hopeful is something to cheer for these days. thank you. >> that's right. thanks for having me. >> you got it. so whether you're talking about vaccines, treatments, or anything else involving this virus, it all comes back down to the debate over reopening communities across this country. are we being too cautious or are we being too careless? joining me now is someone in the middle of this debate, st. louis missouri, county, executive, dr. sam page. dr. page, as the county

executive, st. louis county, you've got a situation where you have won experience with the coronavirus, sort of everything else in missouri, in between county city and st. louis is having another experience with it. kansas city has its own separate. the governor will be opening some parts of the state next week. you, unlikely, aren't. how concerned are you that some of your residents are going to say, the governor says one thing, president says one thing, you're telling me another? >> we're hearing that now, but the governor has said very clearly that st. louis is having a different experience than the rest of this state and that he would recognize and defer to local control and local health orders for some areas that are more importantly and more significant impacted. here in st. louis county, we have almost 40% of the cases of coronavirus in the state. we still have significant

hospitalization and significant impact in our icus. and we don't believe that we're ready to eliminate our stay-at-home orders. but we're watching these things very carefully. >> you have had trouble ramping up your testing in the county. if you could have unfettered access to the feds, what do you need right now to get you more comfortable to at least begin looking at a phase i reopening? >> what we really need is access to tests for the presence of the virus in an acute illness. we like to test everyone that is symptomatic and a population health study. we would like to test our community for the presence of antibodies to see how far this has impacted us. because we know that many of the coronavirus infections, 25, 30%, perhaps more, don't have any symptoms perhaps at all, but it still is able to spread through our community. we definitely need more testing,

especially for all symptomatic patients. >> let's talk about the issue of reopening the economy. what do you expect to be the last thing -- what is going to be the hardest part of the economy in your mind to reopen in the county? >> well, anything in our country that has large crowds will be very difficult until we have widespread munition, or we come up for some new technology or new technique that we don't currently use, to screen people going into a large type of gathering. we know that social distancing and limiting social mixing and limiting crowd sizes is really the only thing we can do to limit the spread of the virus in our community in the absence of a good treatment or the absence of a cure or the absence of a vaccine. some of the news we've heard today is very exciting and certainly will change our plans, if this new medication is widely available. but as of now, large gatherings are going to be very difficult.

>> i'm curious, how much did you go back into the history books of st. louis in 1918. there have been some great stories about comparing the leaders -- what the leaders in st. louis did in 1918, what philadelphia did in 1918, and st. louis came out in a lot better shape than philadelphia. have you leaned much on that history? >> sure, we're very familiar with the story of 1918. in fact, just a couple of years ago in our state medical association, medical journal, there was a nice article outlining the 100-year anniversary and how st. louis moved very quickly and how we fared much better than the rest of the country in 1918. and st. louis was one of the first jurisdictions in the country to issue a stay-at-home order, and we believe that's why we fared better than a lot of places in the country, but we've still been hit pretty hard in st. louis county and hospitals have been very busy. and we know that we're not quite ready just yet to eliminate our

stay-at-home orders. but we're starting to look at what kind of guidance we would give when we get there? >> what will that look like? social distancing from here on out, 25% for restaurants on occupancy. shifts for office workers? what are you warning businesses to start preparing for? >> we're looking at those guidelines now. our business community have been working with us very closely. we know social distancing is our new norm, that will be much different than we've had before and our residents are getting used to this new concept, but it is our new normal. we certainly need to make sure that there are barriers wherever possible, in any public-facing business, especially when there's close contact. and we really do need to respect these new guidelines for social distancing. but the goal will be limiting crowd sizes, limiting capacity

at least initially, until we have a robust testing environment, until we have a very robust contact tracing program here in st. louis county. and we're highering those contact tracers right now. >> st. louis county executive, the elected official oversees county government in st. louis, city of st. louis, within the county there, dr. sam page. thanks for coming on and sharing your views at what you're doing. much appreciated. >> thank you. up ahead, the house may be staying away, but the senate, they're coming back next week. delaware senator chris coons joins me next on that plus a whole lot more. and later, the coronavirus' toll on front line workers. we focus so much on their physical health. how's their mental health? much physical health. how's their mental health? here,! whoo! don't do it. don't you dare. i don't think so! [ sighs ] it's okay, big fella. we're gonna get through this together. [ baseball bat cracks ] nice rip, robbie. ♪

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manning their own duty stations, then my view and the view of my colleagues is, it's essential for senators to carefully man ours and support those folks who are out there on the front lines. >> welcome back. that was senate majority leader mitch mcconnell today defending his decision to bring the senate back in session next week, even as the halls on the other side of the capitol will remain empty as house leaders called off their return on the advice of a congressional doctor. joining me now, delaware senator chris coons, democrat from delaware. senator coons, let me just start there. what do you make of senator mcconnell's rationale? he's basically saying, look, he knows that there's some risk here, but that you guys have a duty to be on the front lines. >> well, three things, if i could, chuck. in addition, thanks for being on, again, with you. first, we are on the front lines in doing important work in our

home states. where every senator i know is working very long days, handling constituent questions and complaints and concerns, supporting our governors and our state governments, as they are finding their way through the maze of the different provisions in the cares act. i've been doing calls morning, new, and noon to try to help small businesses and nonprofits to sort through the small business administration programs, interacting with the department of treasury and the irs around stimulus checks and trying to help our state and our hospitals get access to the assistance that was promised in the c.a.r.e. arizos act, but sts some strings attached or limitations that make it difficult for them to exercise. so, first, i think we are doing our essential work here in our home states. second, senator mcconnell hasn't laid out what it is we'll be doing once we get back to washington. the only vote that he has scheduled, the only agenda item for next week is a confirmation

vote on and a nomination hearing for an acolyte of senator mcconnell. so if we're going to put the workers at who we rely on day in and day out for the capitol complex, the capitol police officers, the food service workers, the maintenance folks who keep capital going, we ought to have a plan for how they're going to be kept safe, which we don't, and we ought to have an agenda of oversight and engagement that is far more substantiative. last, one of the things i'm most concerned by is senator mcconnell's proposal that if we're going to get anymore assistance for our home states and counties and cities that are starting to have to lay off public employees we have been to giver a waiver to an employer.

i think i see a pattern here. it's important that we demand adequate protection for the workers in the capitol and in our home states. >> all right. speaking of the issue of aid to states, i want to play for you something the president just said about immigration regulations and how it may tie to aids to state. take a listen, sir. >> will you seek to prevent the next round of aid from going to sanctuary states and cities? >> well, number one, we shouldn't have to pay anything anyway, because all they do is make it very hard for law enforcement. so that's number one. but i think in the bigger picture, i don't see helping cities and states if they're going to be sanctuary, because all sanctuary means to me is they're protecting a lot of criminals. senator coons, is that legal?

can you condition aid on that or not? i can understand if you're against it, but i'm just curious if you think it's constitutional if he can condition the aid that wa way. >> you know, chuck, i don't have an answer i can give you off the top of my head that i'm certain of from a legal perspective. i can tell you without specific authorization from congress that says that you can condition this aid on full compliance with some of the very specific provisions that relate to a state or a city being considered a so-called sanctuary state, i'm not sure that this is legal. and frankly, as you know, the president and congress have gone back and forth over his attempts to, and ultimately, his success at diverting billions of dollars from vitally needed military construction projects to the building of his wall. so there's been some very recent legal opinions on this area.

we have, in past appropriations bills, constrained the president's ability to redirect funds mid-year in ways that congress didn't approve of and doesn't know of. but on this particular fight, i think, this is just off the top of my head, i think he could dont only do that if we appropriated funds with no restriction on there being limited, based on compliance with sanctuary cities. >> well, you are painting a picture of what's going to be a very, very, i think, partisan fight over the aid to states. i want to talk to you about another applying issue. you're probably as big of a supporter of your delaware, of your delaware friend in joe biden that there is. >> predecessor. >> i'm curious if you believe, and if you -- if you believe that the former vice president needs to address the sexual misconduct allegations against him? does he need to address these

directly? there's certainly some people that are concerned about them. >> chuck, i believe he has. i know joe. i know his life, his character, his record. and as you know well, he's someone who has spent -- he's dedicated decades of his life and his career in public service to advocated for women, for women's causes, and in particular, for the violence against women act. and he and his campaign urged that these allegations be fully investigated. they have been. "the new york times," "the washington post," the associated press, have dedicated weeks of reporters' time to digging in, callinging peopl in calling, contacting people, researching. and all three have concluded that there was no substance to these allegations. there was no pattern, there was no -- >> is that the conclusion -- that there's nothing -- i mean, senator, in fairness, those reports seem to -- there's -- basically, there's nothing --

you can't prove either -- you can't prove any of it. there's no facts. it does feel as if we're stuck in some sort of he said/she said. do you believe that's the situation we're in? >> well, let me try to be clear, if i could. first, the campaign and joe biden have said, please go look at these allegations. investigate them. they have been thoroughly investigated by the independent media. and they have reached the conclusion that there is no sound evidence. so, the campaign's put out a statement that i support, that these have been thoroughly investigated, as they should, as someone who respects the voice of women and victims, i think it important that they be thoroughly investigated. it has been. i'll also remind you that joe someone who has been voetted ovr and over for vice president hep stood for election. and there are months left to go

before the november election. so i think the general public has the opportunity to weigh in in the election in november. and i think the press has done their job, has dug into this in great detail, and i don't think it's just a he said/she said. i think it's a he said/she said/the press thoroughly investigated and found there's nothing there. >> senator chris coons, democrat from delaware, stay safe, stay healthy, and good luck next week, as you all come back to this part of the country and do keep your social distancing. that's for sure. thank you, sir. >> thanks, chuck. up ahead, president trump is forcing meat producers to keep their plants open. but can that be done safely? and what about workers in other essential industries? that's next. r essential industries that's next. dad, i'm scared. ♪

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welcome back. president trump has made clear that his captured keeping meat processing plants open was vital to protecting the nation's food supply. what's been less clear is how the president plans to protect the workers in those plants, especially in light of the recent surge in coronavirus hot spots in meat processing facilities nationwide. we've brought the stories directly from south dakota, iowa, and elsewhere. more than a dozen of those plants have had to close temporarily because of this virus. with me now was david michaels. he was head of osha, oshe's now

professor of occupational health at george washington university and an epidemiologist. there are lots of excellent credentials here. let me start with simply, i feel as if -- i get that the president -- why they feel like they had to do what they had to do with the meat processing plants, when you've got the issue of euthanizing pigs, things like this. but it came without a directive. what directive should it have come with when it comes to safety for these essential workers? >> chuck, thank you for having me on your show. very straightforward, osha, the agency i used to run, should be issuing requirements, saying, we know how this job can be done safe safely. you've got to provide social distance and hand-washing

facilities and sanitation fills, and you have to follow the rules. instead, the path we are on will guarantee more workers getting sick. becau because, it's just a suggestion. there's no enforcement. in fact, osha has said, it's not going to enforce. you know, we have 5,000 sick meat workers around the country, which are proof that these recommendations don't work. you have to have a requirement. and the president has done the opposite. he's said, you can't close these down, you can't even stop production enough so you can disinfect the plant. you must keep them going and he's made sit very clear that workers, their health, their lives, they're less important than making sure we have pork on the supermarket shelves. >> it did seem as if the head of tyson, when he went public with the food -- with the supply chain issues, it was intended, i guess, to send a message to the president, do something is the

benefit they get out of this a liability shield because the government's making them open? >> that's sure what he wants. look, you know, tyson food has had license to kill chickens for years. now they want a license to kill workers. if you give them a liability shie shield, all bets are off. they know they can run those lines as fast as they can, put those workers next to each other and they have nothing to fear as far as lawsuits. in fact, the chicken plants have asked the usda to let them speed up the line so they can turn out more chickens faster and that means more workers will get exposed and more workers are going to get hurt. >> it's pretty clear we've seen food processing, this is a type of job that has to drastically change in order to protect workers, how they do their business. what are some other parts of the

economy that under this new world that we're living in that you think is going to have a lot of struggles in terms of trying to reformat to keep their workplaces safe for workers? >> well, when we reopen the economy, any sort of assembly line is going to have to change. we can't just have people working so close to each other. that will mean auto plants will have to be refigured in some ways. there are lots of smaller assembly line operations throughout the country. that's certainly a very big one. retail is already changing. and a lot of the stores recognize that the cash years all need protection. and until we get a vaccine and until we get this under control, once we reopen the economy, unless we take these precautions, we're going to have a second wave, which will set the economy back, it will set the country back, and it's going to mean a lot more workers are sick. >> what do you say to someone

that are watching now and say, oh, osha, they just create red tape that makes it harder to do these things. >> you know, it's not red tape. it's just saying -- it's changing one word. it's changing from should to shall. these companies know what to do to make things safe, but they're not doing it. that's why all of these workers are getting sick. and osha, under secretary of labor, eugene scalia, are saying, you know, we're going to make recommendations, but we're not going to enforce. we're not going to make you do anything. it's not red tape. it's saying, follow some common sense rules that the rest of us -- look, many of us are at home either because we can telework or because our jobs are disappearing. but we're safe. these workers are going into work every day, they're risking their lives to keep the economy going. and they deserve the protection. >> david michaels, former head of osha during the obama administration, much appreciate you coming on and sharing your views on this issue. really helpful.

thank you, sir. >> great. thanks for having me on your show, chuck. >> you got it. still ahead, a former republican could be shaking up the 2020 race with a third party bid. we'll talk to the independent congressman, justin amash, who just announced an exploratory committee for president on the libertarian line. y committee for president on the libertarian line [squawks] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ [ aevery box has a mission: to protect everything inside from everything outside. that is where the true glory lies. when what's inside matters, [ doorbell rings ] ...count on boxes. paper and packaging. how life unfolds.

i do motivational speakingld. in addition to the substitute teaching. i honestly feel that that's my calling-- to give back to younger people. i think most adults will start realizing that they don't recall things as quickly as they used to or they don't remember things as vividly as they once did. i've been taking prevagen for about three years now. people say to me periodically, "man, you've got a memory like an elephant." it's really, really helped me tremendously. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. - veterans, in times of crisis, you've served our country. if you're a vet and you're experiencing any symptoms of the coronavirus, please contact your local va hospital. protecting your health is our greatest duty.

welcome back. let's turn now to a little bit more of 2020 politics, presidential election, which in any other time, would probably be the top story on this show most nights. well, today, the race for the white house could be getting a bit more crowded. michigan congressman justin amash, who left the republican party less than a year ago when he came out in support of president trump's impeachment, now says he's exploring a run for president on the libertarian party line and he joins me now. congressman amash, it's good to virtually see you and social distance with you. let me start with the basic question, why do you want to be president. >> well, thanks very having me

on, chuck. i think americans need honest, practical leadership. they need someone capable in the white house, and what they're getting right now from both trump and biden is the same old, same old. and on the republican side, you have an increasingly nationalist party. on the democratic side, you have a party that hasn't really reached out to a broader coalition of americans. i think they're reaching out to the same people on the coast and not identifying with most americans. and i think you need someone in there who's going to present an honest, practical approach to things, who's willing to trust the people, who respects our system of government, and will find a way to bring people together through that system of government. we have a system that's designed to moderate things and to bring people together and we don't use that system very well. >> yes, that is true, that the whole point of the system was to try to figure out a consensus, even when consensus isn't there. but let me ask you this. you say you're exploring right

now because you want to see if there's a path to victory. you're not -- this isn't supposed to be seen by -- as some vanity project. so what metrics are you looking for to prove your path to victory? because, look, i think in this day and age, it's easy to get the name recognition. i can picture that. but in a pandemic, you're asking the country a lot by electing somebody from a party that has never run the country before. >> yeah, well, the point is that parties aren't supposed to run the country, so we elect officials who are supposed to represent us. and the thing i'm going to do is represent the people. when you look at this pandemic, for example, you look at the type of relief that was offered by the two parties, it was the type of relief that went to people at the top and went to those who were most well-connected. and those people who are most struggling are actually being left behind. so you need a different approach to governance. you need an approach that respects the people, that

respects the process, and i believe that if i spent the next several months talking to the american people about my ideas, talking to the american people about the kind of principles that i would bring to the job and the kind of practical approach i would bring to the job, a lot of americans are going to be excited about this, and they're going to be excited, especially during this time when there's a lot of uncertainty, and they're looking for something to, for someone to operate differently, not for the same-old system that we've had before. >> you know, it's interesting, obviously, a pure libertarianism, you know, small government approach, we're in a tomb where there is some demand for a big government answer. maybe these are from the same people that claim sometimes they want a small government. how would you be using the levers of power -- you talked about this issue of the bailouts and so far, it's only seemed to help those with connections. there's some out there, an idea on the right and the left, of

the government picking up the tab of all payrolls for a period of time. what do you make of ideas like that? is that too intrusive of the government or in line with where your head is at? >> well, we know the government is going to be involved in this process. there's no doubt about that. there's going to be federal government relief. so the question is, how we structure that relief. and the way it was structured was the most big government way possible. which is to get a lot of people involved, a lot of bureaucracy involved, put the banks in the middle of it, put the federal reserve involved with big corporations, give the secretary of the treasury a lot of random power. these are exactly the kind of things that make the system difficult to operate and actually hinder economic recovery. so if you want to have stability and recovery in the future, you have to get people the freedom to make decisions for themselves. you have to give businesses the freedom to make decisions, of course. but most importantly, you have

to protect the individuals right now who are struggling. so what i would have done is offered direct cash payments to the people. instead of what we're doing now, i would have said, take this money and give a universal monthly cash payment to the people during the course of this pandemic. and you could have congress renew it every three months, for example. so it only lasts for three months and then it's renewed. this would have helped people immediately. they wouldn't have had to wait for unemployment to work out for them or for the ppp system to get up and running. and then on top of it with this convoluted system congress created, you have ppp cutting against the unemployment system. where the unemployment system is encouraging people not to work by enhancing it to the point where the benefits are more than the pay they get from work, and then you're telling employers at the same time, please rehire these employees, and it's created a clash where in some cases, employees aren't interested in coming back to work to a less-safe environment when they could be at home and getting unemployment in the meantime.

of course everyone in the long run wants to get back to work, but in the short run, you can see the problem. >> the philosophy of helping certain industries, on one hand, there's the -- your basic philosophy, hey, pure free market capitalism, hey, you're on your own. but this is a unique situation. where are you on helping the casino industry, helping the airline industry. some of these that are right now sort of, they can't run their busines business. >> well, if they can't run their business, then their biggest cost right now is that they've got some overhead and you can take care of their employees by offering direct payments. so what i would have said is, you guys limit your costs, also, big corporations have more access to capital. they have better relationships with banks and other people who can provide them the loans in the meantime. but we can take care of a big portion of your costs by covering for your employees. so if these employees aren't getting benefits, aren't getting

the same level of pay from your business, then we the government can pay them. then in the meantime, the -- we have to get through this crisis. when the crisis is over, demand will come back and these companies can get back up and running. but i don't think we should have the government selecting which industries are most important, which ones are taxpayers going to bail out? let's help out the people and not bail out the corporations. >> all right. two sort of hard/core political questions. number one, the libertarian party needs a petition to get on approximately 14 or 15 states, depending on whose site you believe about how many states you currently -- the libertarian has access to. this is not an environment where you can go and get petition signatures. can you get on all 50 state ballots? this seems to be a legitimate hurdle for you. >> well, it is a challenge. and especially during this

challenge, it's a challenge to go out and get the signatures and get on all the ballots. but there are cases pending out there, there is pressure on the state governments to make some changes. and the goal, of course, is to get on as many ballots as possible up to 50. and i think that the libertarian party can either get on 50 blas or get very close to getting on 50 ballots. and we intend to win this race. it's not a race for fun, as i've said many times. so we'll continue to push and get on as many ballots as possible, because we can win this. >> since you want to be a winner, if you thought you were going to be a spoiler and you thought you could -- you're not a fan of president trump, we know you're not a fan of joe biden, but you were such not a fan of president trump, you left the republican party and voted to impeach him. if your thought your presence made it easier for him to win a second term, but you couldn't win, what would you do? >> well, once i've got the nomination, if i earn the nomination, i'm running for the

white house. i'm going all the way. it's impossible to know how the addition of a candidate affects the race. and i think there's a lot of time being wasted by people on both side of the aisle trying to decide whether my candidacy we and aren't represented well by either party. and they want an alternative. they want someone to vote for. and i think that's actually the plurality of americans. it's kind of silly to say you might hurt one of the partisan candidates when i don't think they represent the largest group in the country. >> i'm sure you've already heard 17 different angles of how your candidacy helps in 17 different ways or hurts in 17 different ways. i can argue it from any side. i know exactly what you mean. congressman amash, good luck. stay safe out there, and we'll be watching. >> thanks, chuck. appreciate it.

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it's only human to find inspiration in nature. and also find answers. our search to transform... ...farm waste into renewable natural gas led chevron to partner with california bioenergy. working to provide an alternative source of power... ...for a cleaner way forward. welcome back. a few moments ago, the president just finished taking a few questions from some reporters after an event with business leaders. in addition to threatening withhold aid over sanctuary cities, he also said he would be traveling to arizona to meet with industry leaders there fairly soon, among some other headlines. so for these quick developments, it's not the coronavirus task

force briefing. they didn't do that. they just had a meeting with business leaders. let's check in with kristen welker. kristen, i was interested who was there. the head of the business round table josh bolton. the biggest disconnect wean the business community and the white house right now is yes, the business community wants to open up fast too, but it does seem if josh bolton is telling the president you only got one shot to do it right. >> that's right. that's what we heard coming out of that meeting with industry executives. and i thought the comments by josh bolton were notable. and the president got pressed on that bauder point, chuck, over and over again. that essentially you can open things up, but if people don't want to go back to work, if they're still afraid for their safety, if you do open things up and the virus cases start to surge again, that essentially this could backfire in a big way, not only in terms of people's health and fighting the

virus, but also in terms of the economy. so you really saw the high stakes that the administration is facing right now as they say they are going to lift those guidelines that were in place and now put it in the hands of the states to try to reopen in phases. it was notable president trump said he was going arizona, chuck. this is going to be his first trip since this crisis started, really, heading out to meet with industry executives. >> why arizona? >> well, great question. look, this is a state that he won in 2016, but he won it by a narrower margin than he was hoping for. he didn't win by the big margins that you saw with romney or even mccain. and remember kyrsten sinema won as a democrat, the first democrat to win a statewide race there in more than 20 years. so the president, i think he is eager to get out. this squares with our reporting that he wants to get back out. he knows he is going to be

talking to industry leader, executives. it's not going to be some big campaign rally. but he wants to start campaigning. he indicated this. he said it's going to be a little bit different because it's not going to be where everyone gets to stand next to each other. a sign he wants one of those big rallies as soon as possible. chuck? >> kristen, thank you. the first time he steps out of the white house, out of washington to arizona. actually, he did norfolk as well. >> that's true. >> i want to let folks know we had a technical issue that kept us from being able to bring you a segment that we had promoted throughout the show about mental health concerns of frontline workers. obviously we had a technical issue or we would have made time for it. we are going to make that happen. we'll bring the guests back later this week. my promise. msnbc's breaking news coverage of the pandemic continues with my friend and colleague ari melber, right after this break. k

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and we always will. good morning, mr. sun. good morning, blair. [ chuckles ] whoo. i'm gonna grow big and strong. yes, you are. i'm gonna get this place all clean. i'll give you a hand. and i'm gonna put lisa on crutches! wait, what? said she's gonna need crutches. she fell pretty hard. you might want to clean that up, girl. excuse us. when owning a small business gets real, progressive helps protect what you built with customizable coverage. -and i'm gonna -- -eh, eh, eh. -donny, no. -oh.

welcome back to "the beat." i am