hello, everyone. i'm alicia menendez. more and more states across america are opening for business, but the covid-19 crisis is far from over. the death toll in the u.s. continues to rise, passing 65,000. doctors have tested more than 6.5 million americans that they warn in a country of 330 million people, that is not enough. health officials say returning to public life will require much more testing, much better tracing and we are not there yet. at the same time, pressure is mounting on leaders across the country to reopen businesses. in california a large crowd ignored social distancing regulations and called for state officials to reopen the beaches. similar protests are scheduled across the country today. by monday, about two dozen states with a population of 145 million people will have lifted

restrictions. new jersey is one of the latest tot relax its orders, reopening state and county parks and golf courses today. but not everyone is in a rush to reopen. delivery workers are also protesting, saying they're risking their health by going back to work. in an executive order, the president deemed meat-packing workers essential, forcing them back on the job. but they say conditions in their plants are not up to par. >> i work around almost 1,700 people. >> it is essential that people have things to eat and food is still being processed. >> but we start with testing and treatment. the food and drug administration has issued an emergency approval for the antiviral drug remdesivir to treat severely ill covid-19 patients. for more, let's bring in a family medicine doctor and assistant professor at georgetown university school of medicine. doctor, thanks so much for being with us. tell me, what do we know about

remdesivir? >> thank you for having me, alicia. so remdesivir is an antiviral drug which basically means it can stop the replication or the coronavirus from multiplying. there's an nih trial that's been done between february and march that studied about 1,000 patients across the u.s. and some in europe. what the prelim results show is that it does -- it is statistically significant to reduce the time to recovery, which means time to hospital discharge or when patients are able to go back to normal functioning. so it was 11 days with the drug, remdesivir, and 15 days without the drug. so that was a 31% improvement. the one thing it did also show, but it was not significant, is an 8% mortality rate versus an 11% mortality rate without it. again, these are prelim results. the study has not been published. but based on these prelim results, the fda has authorized the emergency use of it.

>> to your point, this is all preliminary, the fda has said, quote, given there are no adequate approved or available alternative treatments, the known and potential benefits to treat this serious or life-threatening virus currently outweight the known and potential risks of the drug's use. is this standard protocol to continue using it even though there are only preliminary results? >> well, hospitals across the country are already using it in many instances. so i think in this case it's a unique circumstance. if it was in a pandemic, this wouldn't be the case. but right now i think that this is the best we have. there was a study that was done in china that was a pretty weak study, so we definitely need to continue studying it. but for right now it's being used, people are asking gilead for compassionate use, which takes longer. so i think given where we're at right now, this is the best that we have and it's a unique

circumstance. >> south korea reported its first day on thursday with no known new cases. people who are looking to south korea are lauding their tracing measures, their testing measures. what would it take to get america to the capacity that we're seeing out of south korea? >> there's a lot of things. we need more testing. we're not there. last week we tested about 200,000 people per day and we need to be testing millions here in the u.s. to be able to do the proper type of contact tracing, isolation, quarantining, to be able to identify the hot spots. we're not there yet to be able to reopen completely, the economy. there's other things that could be done. i know there are some democrats putting the health force bill to get the unemployed into the workforce to do some of these public health measures. i think we need more federal government leadership so that states aren't try to go outbid

each other or testing supplies or materials. we need more ppe for our health care workers and frontline workers and enough hospital capacity, so still a ways to go. >> we've talked about treatment, we've talked about tracking and tracing, testing and tracing. the final piece, of course, is a vaccine. you have dr. fauci saying this week it's possible for a vaccine to be ready by january. what are the risks of fast-tracking a vaccine? >> yeah, so right now there's about 102 different vaccines in development throughout the world and there's about eight of them that are in actual -- are enrolled in clinical trials. normally for vaccines it can take decades for a vaccine to be developed. they go through three very intense, three phases of trials. and what we need from that the mainly to show that the vaccine is safe, that you can mount an immune response in the body and

is it actually effective in providing immunity against the disease. so for example, the hpv vaccine took about 15 years to get something from the start to the actual vaccine in patients. other vaccines are taken up to 20 years. so the dangers are -- again, this is a unique situation. a vaccine is the one thing that we need most desperately to be able to reopen and go back to the way things were before. but realistically, there are dangers if we are not making sure that it's safe and it's not making sure it's effective. so there's different things that are being done right now to fast-track that and i think as long as we stick with the regulations, it can be done. but some are way too optimistic saying the fall. i think that's too optimistic. the 18 months is probably the earliest that we could possibly see one. >> doctor, thank you so much for your time and for your

expertise. in houston, texas, new focus is being put on the high number of cases impacting predominantly black neighborhoods. this week the city began to roll out mobile sites to residents can have easier access to testing. priscilla thomas is in houston. what is the city doing to determine where these mobile testing sites should go? >> reporter: so the city of houston is looking at a number of factors when it comes to figuring out where these sites are going to go, alicia. one of them being how far they are from the stationery sites that are set up around town, making sure they reach those communities that are furthest away, but also reaching the poorest communities and those that are at the highest risk given their underlying risk factors. so that is what is going to be key here as they move these mobile sites around. and i want to point out that it's not just about where these sites are but also the accessibility. so while the sites we're at today is a drive-up only, one of

the other sites does allow folks to walk up to get testing to ensure that even if someone doesn't have a car or doesn't have someone that can give them a ride, they're still able to get access to that testing. >> pa silhow were folks gettingd from the mobile testing sites and howe are they responding to these mobile testing sites? >> reporter: doctors tell me that there's a concern that those folks weren't being tested, and they were waiting until the symptoms got so bad that they were being tested at the hospital. and i think what we saw early on whenever houston released their demographic data about the coronavirus deaths, we saw a higher rate among african-americans and that has tapered out a bit. but it's very possible that folks weren't going to the hospital until they were already too sick. so that was an issue. but now folks are these sites in their neighborhoods. i actually spoke to a woman here who said this site was only about eight minutes away from her and she is an essential worker. and so between her work

schedule, she wasn't able to get to one of those further-out sites and she wanted to get her father tested because he lives with her. so she's coming home every day from work, being with him. he has heart disease and has been having trouble breathing. so she had waited a while to get him testing. but thankfully she was able to get that done today. she tells me she's not sure what took so long for the test sites to show up here. take a listen to what she told me. >> they did take longer to get on this side of town. but i don't know how they organize everything, so i'm like maybe we just had to wait. i was just scared of everything because i work in the pharmacy and i'm coming home. am i spreading it to him, you know. >> reporter: the good news is folks do seem to be utilizing these sites. they have around 150 tests that they can do per day at these mobile testing sites and they've been running out, usually in the early afternoon hours before they're set to close.

so that's very important in just getting the information out to folks so that they know they're here and they can come and guest tested. >> priscilla, thank you as always for your great reporting. this week president trump signed an executive order deeming workers at meat plants across the country essential. the order comes amid a spike in covid-19 cases. in a report from the cdc, nearly 5,000 members of the work force nationwide has tested positive for the virus and unions representing these workers argue the risk of contracting the virus is much higher. joining me is the president of the retail, wholesale and department more union. so good to see you, stewart. when you were talking to the workers in these plants, what are they telling you about their working conditions? >> good afternoon. the workers tell us that they are frightened, they are frightened to go to work and that not enough is being done and that they feel compelled to go to work because they need to

earn a living to survive. it's a terrible choice that they're making. and i just want to say i think the executive order itself was outrageous. it was the wrong thing to do. when plants close, they close for deep cleaning and to protect the safety and the lives of workers. i only wish this administration cared as much about working people as it does about the product. >> john tyson, the ceo of tyson foods, put out a full-page ad in the "new york times" and "washington post" warning of a meat shortage. the tyson plant in indiana has clearly 1900 cases of covid-19. 90% of cases in waterloo, iowa has been tied to tyson's plant there. is there a way to preserve america's food supply and at the same time keep these workers safe? >> well, i think the first thing you have to do is to protect the

safety of the workers. if you don't protect the safety, things are only going to get worse. the president did something else that was very bad, and that was talking about limiting the liability of employers. first of all, the cdc doesn't have any requirements for these plants. they're only voluntary guidelines. and the president is saying that we're going to limit liability, so even if you don't protect your workers adequately, you may not even have to worry about the consequences. that is wrong. if we want to protect the food chain, we have to protect the workers. >> stewart, thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. former vice president joe biden is responding to a claim of sexual assault from a former

staffer, tara reade. >> would you please go on the record with the american people. did you sexually assault tara reade? >> no, it is not true. i'm saying unequivocally, it never, never happened. look, from the very beginning i've said believing women means taking the woman's claims seriously when she steps forward and then vet it, look into it. that's true in this case as well. women have a right to be heard and the press should rigorously investigate claims they make. i'll always uphold that principle. but in the end in every case, the truth is what matters. in this case the truth is the claims are false. >> this was biden's first direct response to reade's allegation that she raised over a month ago about an alleged assault that took place in 1993. she said she originally filed a complaint of harassment but not of assault at the time. biden says there is no record of a complaint, but sent a letter to the secretary of the senate

friday asking for documents related to any record of a harassment complaint to be released. let bring in nbc's mike memoli. nbc reached out to five people that reade says she shared varying degrees of the alleged incident with. what did you find? >> reporter: alicia, ms. reade first came forward with this new allegation about sexual assault in late march and as part of nbc's reporting on this, reade told my colleague that there were five people who would corroborate her claim. of those five, three of them told us they had no recollection of reade sharing information with them about this at the time. a fourth individual did say that reade told them of an assault allegation and the fifth said that reade had only shared with her a general allegation of harassment, not necessarily of assault. now, since that time in our first story posted on april 12th, we had now heard from a sixth individual who was a neighbor of reade's in california who said that reade shared this allegation of assault with her several years

later. it's important to know, though also, we heard nbc news had been reaching out to a number of staff we could find that were also in biden's offices at the time. 14 people we've spoken with, several declined to comment, but almost every other one said basically that they don't remember any allegation of this at the time and that there was no reason for them to believe that it was true. >> what have we heard from vice president biden since the "morning joe" interview that we just aired? >> reporter: so the former vice president had a fundraiser last night actually with a large network of obama administration alumni and he repeated to that group that, one, he strenuously denied this allegation, but striking some balance, he said my knowledge that this claim is not true doesn't change his view that all women should have a right to come forward with allegations and have them be treated seriously. it's also interesting to note that we've now been hearing more from the team that was around joe biden and part of president obama's team that selected joe

biden for the ticket in 2008. william jeffers, one of the lawyers who was part of the vetting team that went through all aspects of biden's life told my colleague, droiandrea mitche said they found no allegations. and biden's chief of staff during the fall campaign in 2008 said when i was selected, no sexual assault or harassment allegation was made at that time. so a number of other prominent democrats are coming forward to put themselves on record here in casting doubt on the truth of this. >> mike, a lot of stories about records that could be released that had corroborate reade's claim or potentially help corroborate reade's claim, walk us through what those are. >> reporter: what we saw yesterday was initially in a statement the former vice president saying he was asking the secretary of the senate to go to the national archives and to say if reade had in fact

filed any complaint with the senate at the time in 1993, they should look for it and produce it if they are able to find it. there was some confusion because the national archives did come out initially with a statement saying they were not in control of such personnel records, but biden followed up with a letter to the secretary of the senate last night saying that basically help us find wherever such records would exist, look for them and if you find anything, produce it. but of course the contention of biden and his campaign is that no such record exists. there's a discussion of joe biden's personal senate archives that are still in the process of being curated at the university of delaware. he donated them in 2011, they arrived in 2012. the biden campaign is significant those records he donated of his own personal papers would not have included any personnel records, but you're seeing a number of calls, including today by "the new york times" editorial board for some sort of independent ar by tore loo look and see if that's the

case. >> mike, thanks so much. vice president joe biden sits down with reverend al sharpton to discuss the sexual assault claim, the presidential race and how he would handle the coronavirus pandemic. don't miss it 5:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. coming up, thousands of workers are going back on the job to keep food flowing to stores across the country, but is it safe and what is being done to keep those workers healthy. i'll talk with it with congresswoman joaquin castro next. plus later in the hour, the president at odds with the intelligence community. what we know about a chinese medical lab in wuhan and its connection to the coronavirus pandemic. emic no uh uh, no way come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card. so chantix can help you quit slow turkey. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit.

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they're the frontline workers who have helped put food on your table and kept stores stocked and now members of congress from both sides of the aisle are insisting on more protections for these essential workers. on friday, republican senator

mitt romney released a proposal to temporarily raise wages for grocery store workers, food processors and other frontline workers. the hispanic caucus is calling for the trump administration to investigate the meat processors work conditions and issue a temporary safety standard. i would like to bring in congresswoman joaquin castro. tell me about the measures that the caucus would like to see put into place for these workers. >> well, we would like to see, most avenof all, safety proet c mandated so when they go back to work they can be ensured as much as possible they're not going to be infected with the coronavirus. even several weeks into this whole pandemic there were meat-packing plants that were not providing masks or gloves or other safety equipment, protective equipment to their workers and that's part of the reason that you see these places with hundreds of people infected and then many small-town communities where the plants are

located having hundreds and hundreds more infections. >> when you talk about these essential workers there seems to be a lot of enthusiasm behind the idea of hazard pay. is hazard pay enough? >> well, that's one part of it. besides all of the protective gear and safety rules, i think these folks deserve hazard pay. i think the meat-packing plant workers, the farm workers out in the field, the grocery store clerks, the sanitation works and health care workers and others, the they should get hazard pay from their government or company or both. >> you and congresswoman sent a letter urging for child aides and caregivers to be considered essential workers and have access. why weren't they included in some of the first packages we saw? >> many of us believe they should have been included and i do think that was an oversight by congress, because they've always been essential workers, but especially now during this

pandemic, these home aelhealthc workers and nurses are even more important at this point. they're literally keeping people alive and we believe that our federal government, that the congress should acknowledge it, should recognize it and, as with other essential workers, that they should be given an extra stipend or some kind of hazard pay for putting their own lives at risk in going out and working, sometimes in places and in conditions where you have mass infection already. >> your state started loosening restrictions, reopening malls and restaurants. what is your reaction to those measures? when you talk to your constituents, do they feel like it is time to begin reopening? >> you talk to anybody and folks have been in their homes for seven weeks at this point, six weeks at this point, and so, you know, i think all of us, there's an urging to get back out there. but we have to do it when it's absolutely safe to get back out there and get the economy back

started up again. and it was interesting, because two days before the governor reopened the state, texas had one of its highest days with number of cases of new infections, and that curve was still going up or had barely plateaued and certainly had not gone down for 14 consecutive days, as is recommended by the experts, before you really start to open up the economy again. and so i think in texas the response has been lackluster, both the health response in terms of the number of tests that have been given to folks, and especially in the economic response. because there's so many people who have emailed me and so-callcalled me and said not only am i worried about getting sick, but i also have called the texas workforce commission 200, 300 times and i can't get through to anybody to get my unemployment benefits. so the response both in terms of

the public health and economic for families has been lackluster by the state government here. >> congresswoman castro, thank you so much. >> thanks. up next, the president has moved quickly to blame china for the outbreak and put the focus on a lab in wuhan. we'll show you what nbc news discovered about those claims. plus the surprising lessons from smokers and covid-19. why it's leading doctors in europe to consider some unique treatments. that's coming up on msnbc live. weeds are low down little scoundrels. with roundup sure shot wand you don't need to stoop to their level. draw the line. the sure shot wand extends with a protective shield to pinpoint those pesky bedfellows. it lets you kill what's bad right down to the root, while comfortably guarding the good. draw the line with the roundup sure shot wand. roundup brand. trusted for over 40 years.

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president trump is claiming that he has evidence the coronavirus pandemic began in a laboratory in wuhan, china. >> my question is, have you seen anything at this point that gives you a high degree of confidence that the wuhan institute of vierology was the origin of this virus. >> yes, i have. >> what gives you confidence that this originated in the

institute? >> i'm not allowed to tell you that. >> those comment contradict the u.s. intelligence community. the office of the director of national intelligence issued a very rare statement, saying, quote, the covid-19 virus was not man made or genetically modified. cal perry joins me now. you heard the president there. what is the latest? >> reporter: so there are really two narratives are hearing about where the virus may have originated. the first is that it came from the wet market in the city of wuhan and jumped to humans there. important to note two of the first few cases in a link to that market. the other theory is the one you're hearing from the president, that the virus may have escaped from a lab in wuhan. our verification unit has broken down that there are three separate labs in the city of wuhan, let's take a look at the geography and we'll bring up the first map. our team has verified and clarified that the wuhan

institute of virology is actually two sites. most people think it's one site. it's two sites. one inside the city, one outside the city. the one inside the city does not work with bat viruses. it works on insects, it's low security and it's the one you see eight miles from the wet market. very unlikely the virus would have gotten there. the second lab is a level four, and it works with dangerous viruses and bats. it is 17 miles from the city. the video you're looking at now was taken by our verification team from chinese state television. it is video from inside that facility and you can see the gear that they are wearing there. now, i spoke to a virologist who is a colleague of those who work inside the facility, he's traveled there frequently and worked with the folks inside there. he says the moment that the virus was detected in wuhan, they ran an investigation. >> first of all, the market is far away from the institute. that's one thing.

and so, physically that's something. but once the accusation was there, she rushed in her lab, got the people together and said we have to figure this out. so she went through all the logbooks and went through all the material she had to resequence everything that she could find and she could not find that this virus had come out of the hospitals was a virus that they were working with, okay. and so what more can you do? >> reporter: so that's the wuhan institute of virology that we've heard so much about and will continue to hear about. what else is in the city? how about the third lab? i'll talk a little bit about the chinese center for disease control. our verification team has placed that lab and we'll bring it up here, only 300 yards from that market. 300 yards. so just a couple minutes' walk. a bit about what the vir olts

do, they scout the bats in caves and they bring them back to the lab where they synthesize the virus. the video we're about to show you is somebody who worked inside the lab, the chinese cdc, in a cave looking for these bats. and again, when you look at this video you can see not only the work that's being done, but what's important is the equipment that's being worn, that's not being worn. here is the video there. this is somebody from the chinese cdc. we'll bring up the volume so you can listen to what he tells the viewer. take a listen.

>> reporter: it gives you an understand of the kind of work that's being done, how dangerous it is. i want to show you one more piece of video. this is the scientist. now, our experts have told our verification team that the ppe gear that he's not wearing here is a problem. he should have been wearing more gear than he is here. it gives you an idea of how complicated this is, what intelligence agencies around the world are going to be looking at, what the president is hearing about and what you can expect to hear a lot more about in the coming week. >> so where does all of this leave us? >> reporter: well, we need to know a lot more, certainly about the chinese cdc. and i think it will probably come up at this week's briefing. now, our verification team has actually found an academic paper that was deleted from the internet and it details an incident in which that bat collector that you saw in that video from the chinese cdc had to self-quarantine. quote, he was once attacked by bats and the blood of a bat shot on his skin. he knew the extreme danger of the infection so he quarantined

himself for 14 days. in another incident, he quarantined himself again because bats peeed on him. we don't know who took the paper down from the internet and we don't know why it was taken down. this account used to live online and it's now gone, a leash sha. >> cal perry, thank you so much for that great reporting. the world health organization convened this week and studied a study in france and smokers and it has made heads turn. tessa, what are scientists saying about nicotine and covid-19? >> reporter: well, scientists that i've spoken to, the ones involved in the research, said they are seeing a link. i also talked to a peer reviewer and this is essentially what they're telling me. they have found a lower infection rate for smokers among covid-19 patients, so 5% of the patients are smokers. now, compare that with 25% of the general population who

smoke. why is this? one possible explanation is that nicotine and the covid-19 virus bind to the same cell receptor and that nicotine possibly is blocking the virus from attaching itself to the cell. that's the hypothesis. they want to test it by using nicotine patches on health care workers and patients. since the study came out the french government has had to limit the sale of nicotine products to the general public and it's been such a controversial study and so counterintuitive the w.h.o. has been looking into this. they maintain that smokers belong to a high risk group but they're not discounting the french study just yet. they want to look at the methodology and sample size before coming to a conclusion. i've also been speaking to other public health experts, they say as controversial as it sounds, this is important and it's worth looking into. here's what one of them told me. >> researchers all over the world are trying to repurpose medicines and nicotine

replacement therapy is a medicine to treat covid. there's data from the u.s., china, france and other countries that suggest there are relatively few smokers who develop the disease if they come into contact with the virus. and we know there's a potential biological mechanism for that. so it's plausible, who knows, that nicotine might have a protective effect. but we certainly don't want to send a message that people should keep smoking. >> it's important to note that all the experts i spoke to say this is by no means an encouragement to smoke. smoking is a major global killer and they also said do not use those nicotine patches on your own. >> all right. thank you so much for that reporting. coming up, congress approved billions of dollars in loans, but some small businesses are still struggling to get the help they need. we'll explain why it's especially a problem for minority and women-owned businesses. here's a razor that works differently. the gillette skinguard it has a guard

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all without changing passwords and inputs. the most 4k content and movies and shows on any screen. the best entertainment experience all in one place. as lenders begin dispersing funds, many shuttered minority owned businesses are being left to drown in a growing pile of spences. according to the center for responsible lending, over 90% of black, latino or pacific islander owned businesses and 75% of asian businesses stand close to no chance of receiving a ppp loan through a mainstream bank. with me is ashley harrington, the director of advocacy and senior council for responsible lending. thanks so much for being with us. we've talked a lot on this show about the fact that

minority-owned businesses are often cut out from these bigger banks. at the same time, there's $60 billion set aside for community banks that serve minority businesses. why is that money not enough? >> thanks so much for having me. you're right, small businesses of color are important to this economy and their communities. there was $60 billion in the most recent ppp package that, unfortunately, still most of it will not get to communities of color. and that's because the best way to get funding to small businesses of color is through minority depository institutions called ndis and community development financial institutions, cdfis. these institutions are the ones that have the best track record of reaching communities of color, reach ing low and moderae income communities. and because of the way the funding is set up, they do not get their own reserve. so we called for $10 billion to

be specificallily allocated and without that reserve it's highly likely that they will still not get their fair share of the funding and then that that funding will then not get to businesses of color. >> center for responsible lending is calling for money to be allocated for small businesses that have just one employee. why is that so important? >> well, not just for one employee. we're calling for funding to get the businesses that are smaller. most small businesses of color are small businesses, sole proprietorships or businesses with ten or less employees. these are the businesses we're talking about. these are the businesses that need loans of $50,000, $30,000, $20,000 to stay in business. so these are actual small business. what we typically think of when we're thinking about a small business, right? and so we need a program that really targets the businesses of that size because that ensures that funding will get to them.

the current structure of the ppp program sets it up so that the origination fee that's paid to banks is based on the amount of the loan. so when you're a small business with a small payroll or a sole proprietorship, just a one-owner business, you have a smaller payroll so you need a smaller loan. therefore, the origination fee that's going to banks is going to be that much smaller. >> part of the challenge is that fee, but part of the challenge is also the requirements that are set up and baked into the ppp program, requiring from 75% of funds go toward employee's salaries and 25% toward rent and utilities. you have some businesses with high rents that are still closed because of these provisions. do they need to be rethought? >> absolutely. so we're thinking about businesses that right now the ppp structure is only going to cover two months of payroll expenses and you have to be in business now or be able to reopen. many businesses right now because the country was already struggling before the c.a.r.e.s.

act was implemented or because we're still on stay-at-home orders, these businesses can't readily reopen. so their loans may not even be forgivable if they take them out because they're not going to meet the requirements. so we need to think about what is an eligible expense to be forgiven and how we're ensuring that businesses that have already had to close or can't reopen right now will have the opportunity to do so in the future. a lot of these businesses are the very small businesses. >> ashley, thank you so much. >> thank you. up next, millions of parents are waiting to find out when their kids will be allowed back to class. but will american schools see a more permanent change after the pandemic? i'll talk about president obama's former education secretary about it next. - hey, can i... - safe drivers save 40%!!! guys! guys! safe drivers save 40%!!! safe drivers save 40%! safe drivers save 40%!!! that's safe drivers save 40%. it is, that's safe drivers save 40%.

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lots of questions surround the future of school in america. in many places, they're nowhere near being ready to open. whenever they do open, they may look very different. as "usa today" puts it, arrival, dismissal, and recess will need to happen on staggered schedules and through specific doors to promote physical distancindista. students eat lunch at their desks. those oldest students move with the same cohort every day. arne duncan was a former presidential education secretary

under president obama. placing desks six feet apart, having kids eat lunch in the classroom, closing playgrounds for vesrecess. what is the biggest challenge facing educators should they reopen schools in the fall? >> well, the biggest challenge is this isn't a school issue. this is a societal issue. it's not opening schools. we could open tomorrow. the issue is when can we do it safely. the hard answer to that question, the sobering answer, is we cannot open schools safely and assure the safety and health of our students, of staff, of faculty, lunchroom workers, principals, security guards. we can't do that until three things are in place. one, we have significant testing, which we don't have and the lack of federal leadership is stunning. secondly, we need contact tracing. we'd be able to track down people who have been exposed. third, we need a program to isolate or quarantine those who have been exposed.

states like massachusetts that are leading the way are further ahead of others and that's optimistic, but that's the route we have to go before we even talk about what a school day might look like within a physical building. >> so let's then follow that logic and if those things are not in place by the fall, when a lot of school kids would normally be going back to school, do you end up in a scenario where there's a continuation of remote learning? and if students are doing remote learning, what does that mean for the most underserved kids who might not have access to broadband, who might have a parent who is an essential worker and isn't able to sit with them and do their homework? what kind of inequities are those kids up against? >> well, there are three scenarios that superintendents across the country are planning for. i'm talking to them every week. they're doing an extraordinary job. one is a scenario we hope and wish for where everybody could go back to a physical building. a second scenario is when nobody can go back. the third scenario is a hybrid

solution where some students are going back on a staggered basis and a combination of going back physically and staying online. my personal opinion is that's the most likely scenario that we'll end up in the hybrid space. what does that mean? it means where we have tremendous inequities in learning opportunities, where we have a digital divide, where some students have access to devices and internet and wi-fi, and some don't, that's fundamentally unfair and we have to continue to close that gap. in chicago they're givingous 100,000 devices, miami has, boston, 30,000 devices, south bend are using buses to create hotspots. public and private sector have to come together to close that digital divide and get every single child and particularly we talked about, those most vulnerable, marginalized, disenfranchised, we have to give them a chance to learn anything they want anytime, anywhere and use this crisis as the reason to

close that digital divide once and for all. >> as you know, the president has a task force on reopening the economy. should there be an educator on that task force? >> i think yes, there should be an educator, but we need less politicians at the federal level spinning things. we need to listen to scientists, mayors, governors, superintendents. those are the people who have the well-being of their citizens and constituents at heart. that's who we need to listen to. >> when you look at this globally, denmark and parts of germany and china bringing students back to school. anything we can learn from that? >> we're all learning together just to be very honest and maybe a little sobering. i think we have to prepare for a second wave of this. it's not like at some point we'll beat this and it won't come back. that's not likely. you go back, and this is a tough analogy, but prior to 9/11, people may not remember, we could walk into an airport or onto an airplane. those days are gone. i think those days of just walking into a school might be

gone, that we may have to have tests for children and adults on a very, very frequent basis to sort of have a passport to go into school. if that doesn't work, then we have to continue obviously on the virtual, on the remote learning. we are not going back to where we were. i said repeatedly the past normal wasn't good enough anyway. we need to be reimagining a different, much better and fair and equitable and just education system. it will become more of a challenge, something we have to check on for adults and children to enter school every day for the foreseeable future. this is not a three-month or a five-month plan. honestly, this is a three- or four-year plan we have to be thinking through while we deal with this crisis at the same time. >> sobering indeed. secretary duncan, thanks so much for your time. >> thank you for the opportunity. >> that wraps it up for this hour. i will be back at 4:00 p.m. eastern. my colleague joshua johnson takes over at the top of the hour.

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yeah. this moving thing never gets any easier. well, xfinity makes moving super easy. i can transfer my internet and tv service in about a minute. wow, that is easy. almost as easy as having those guys help you move. we are those guys. that's you? the truck adds 10 pounds. in the arms. -okay... transfer your service online in a few easy steps. now that's simple, easy, awesome. transfer your service in minutes, making moving with xfinity a breeze. visit xfinity.com/moving today. hey, there. i'm joshua johnson in new york. it's good to be with you today nor anoth for another trip across america. the nation is opening for business, at least partly. more than 20 states have launched some form of a reopening strategy. some are moving quickly, others more deliberately. the u.s. has more than