hello, everyone. our definition of essential worker has expanded. empty expressions of gratitude are not enough. many protested unsafe work conditions and demanded hazard pay, sick leave and other protected measures. "new york" magazine highlights their plight writing, by going on strike, workers make the moral case for their own well-being. they aren't asking to be recognized for their heroism. they wanted to be compensated for their labor.

they want to live. this includes meat packing workers after president trump issued an executive order that plants reopen. they work in close quarters and have a lack of protective equipment that could lead to more outbreaks np in a survey conducted by the cdc of meat processing plants across the country, nearly 5,000 plant workers have tested positive for covid-19 and 20 have died from the virus. with me the co-founder of an advocacy organization for poultry workers in arkansas. thank you so much for joining me. talk to me a little bit about what these workers are up against, the choice that they are making every day when they choose whether or not to go into work. >> thank you for inviting me. what trump did to these workers,

they clearly prefer to sacrifice workers for the sake of the bottom line. let's remember that the majority of these workers are immigrants, are refugees, are blacks, and it's clearly an attack to these communities that are often lacking the basic human rights in this country. right now workers are terrified of going to work because they feel they are being led to the slaughter every day. and so we are fighting to protect the basic protections for these workers because we cannot secure a food supply without securing the safety of these workers. >> they're terrified of going to work. are they also terrified of not going to work? >> exactly. many of them are -- they need these jobs in order to feed their familiefamilies, so they terrified of going to work because tyson is not being clear about how many cases are in the plant.

the workers were shocked when it was announced there were cases of covid-19, and yet the company didn't shut down the lines, didn't deep clean those areas, so right now we as a nation really need to respect the humane working conditions of these workers. we really need to rethink the way we produce food in order for us to overcome this crisis together. workers' health is public health. >> tyson foods released a statement saying the health and well-being of our team members and their loved ones is and remains our priority. it's why we've put in place a host of safe guard and guidelines at all our facilities to protect our teams. we will not hesitate to idle any plant for deep cleaning when the need arises, and we're partnering with may ricks medical network, a leading provider of mobile health clinics, to give team members on-site access to testing for covid-19 and otherle withness services as we reopen idled

facilities. have these measures made a difference? >> well, let's remember that the first case of covid in the country was in january, and right now we have over 5,000 workers already sick and many are dying. these companies are acting too late, and as i said, these companies are not being transparent to how many cases of covid-19 there is in these plants. right now workers are not experiencing shutting down the lines, the production is going, and actually they are forced to work in a faster speed than before. so, yeah, we've seen like in early march we launched an online campaign, demanding these companies provide the basic protections, and we have seen how many, like, right now they are trying to improve that, and it wasn't early. it was late april when workers told me that finally tyson had provided them the right

protections right now. but right now, there is already cases in that plant, and we are seeing that the many companies are acting too late on this issue. >> all right. thank you so much for your time. >> thank you. >> these questions of what work is essential and how those workers are treated has implications that will outlast this current crisis. let's bring in the co-founder of super majority, director of the national worker's alliance and chair of the families together campaign. and hanna jones, a correspondent for "new york times" magazine. it is great to see you both. nicole, these questions of what is essential work and who is an essential worker predate this crisis. this crisis is simply bringing these questions into focus. is it in some ways giving the country an opportunity to have conversations that are long overdue? >> absolutely. i've been saying for weeks now

that these workers have always been essential. the same workers who we're depending on, the ones more advantaged can stay at home, those workers we're depending on to make the country go were always making the country go. and we have not treated these workers as essential, certainly not in how we pay them, certainly not in whether we've offered them health insurance or not, and the respect that we have given them for work they do. so i think now that we are seeing in a very crystal clear way how necessary these workers have always been, it should be extremely difficult for us to go back to the sense that these people should not be making a livable wage and should not have health insurance and the proper workplace protections. >> in an earlier show we were talking with representative castro about including this family caretakers, child care takers as essential workers, making sure they get ppe. when you talk about the full breadth of these workers, all

these workers that we're now deeming essential, what types of protections do you want to see in place to make sure that they can both do their jobs and be safe from this virus? >> well, i just got off the phone with a domestic worker and they care for their children, caring for aging parents, our loved ones, and it's essential. we have to recognize it. eldercare workers are providing lifesaving services to the most vulnerable population. and they are doing it without protective equipment, without -- for their own families. this is our chance to put into place -- of protections.

i'm hearing a little bit of -- >> yeah. i'm having a little trouble hearing you. we'll get you set. i want to jump over to nicole and bring nicole in on this. in south dakota, nicole, a state that is 90% white, 70% of covid cases are people of color. that's according to the covid tracking project. when you take the realities of who are members of this workforce and the disparities that we are seeing when it comes to care, what are these communities really up against? >> well, what we're seeing, you're seeing this in many other white states. my hometown of waterloo, iowa, is similarly a very white state, but when you look at who are working in the meat packing plants, which has become the hotspot in these pandemics, they are 70% black and latino workforce. this is very hard work even under the best circumstances. but to now be having to do this

grueling work in situation where is the workplace is not safe, where these communities are enduring the brunt of the outbreak, going out into their own communities where they are further spreading that i think shows how -- the reason we are seeing these numbers, the disproportionate impact in infection rates and death rates, particularly of black americans and also latinos, is these are the people who are working in the service industry. these are the folks who have not been able to shelter in place, w to work from home, and are working in places where they're not getting proper protection. >> nicole, i want to stick with you. the c.a.r.e.s. act includes a $600 boost to unemployment benefits, but this presents something of a dilemma. "the wall street journal" writes the $600 payment aligns with working full-time at $15 an hour. the minimum wage level many democrats in congress support. the federal minimum wage

followed by 21 states is $7.25 an hour and has been unchanged for a decade. is this a moment in which there is the momentum to build the case for a greater minimum wage? >> oh, god, i hope so. we should all frankly be appalled that an adult working full-time in this country can make $7.25 an hour. that is not a wage that anyone can support themselves or their family on. we should not have allowed that to remain the same for a decade. so i don't know how we then say that right now, when all of us need these workers so much, that we will pay them the $15 that these workers have been fighting for, for several years now, and then say after this pandemic we'll go back and make your poverty wages again. i hope that we are not the type of country that will be okay with that once this is all over

especially considering the sacrifice that these workers are making right now. >> a-jean, i think i have your audio back. final thoughts from you. >> well, i think that what we have right now is an incredible opportunity because we're finally seeing as a country just how essential so many segments of the workforce truly are, and we have the opportunity to make our policy treat them as essential as they are and as a huge part of not only this moment of crisis and how we're going to make it through but as a core part of how we're going to recover together as a country. and senator warren and representative qana have a proposal for an essential workers bill of rights that includes hazard pay, protective equipment, child independent care, health care, testing, all of the things that we need to keep our essential workforce strong and safe and to keep our country safe. and the least we can do given

what they're sacrificing to keep us safe is to call our members of congress to support the essential workers bill of rights in this movement. >> all right. thank you both so much. more and more states are lifting restrictions, but medical experts are warning america's testing systems are not ready. we'll talk about the challenges states are now struggling with. and thousands of immigrant families are not getting the stimulus they're entitled to. i just love hitting the open road and telling people that liberty mutual customizes your insurance, so you only pay for what you need! [squawks] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ no uh uh, no way come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card.

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as the number of confirmed cases passes the 1.1 million mark, the white house is not letting dr. anthony fauci from testifying before the house appropriations committee. the administration is allowing him to testify before the senate health committee on the same issue. with me now is nbc political reporter monica alba. monica, why is the white house blocking dr. fauci from testifying before the house but not the senate? >> reporter: alicia, we just heard from kayleigh mcenany who says this is purely political. she said because the democrats were going to be leading that house panel committee scheduled for may 6th, that they weren't sure of their intentions and how they were going to play that out the with dr. fauci, so they felt in their words it would be

counterproductive to have him appear in that setting whereas with the senate, where dr. fauci is slated to appear on may 12th, that would be controlled by republicans and they feel they have a good idea of how that meeting is going to go and they feel comfortable with dr. fauci spending his time in that manner. but kayleigh mcenany just told fox news in an interview she thinks this is a political play from the democrats. we have seen dr. fauci take questions not just from reporters but in tons of media interviews in the last few weeks as this infectious disease export pert who's had over 35 years of expertise when it comes to something like the coronavirus, but it matches with a new prift the white house and a new strategy where they've had him out in front a little less than they did at the beginning of this crisis. they have shifted to a different mechanism where the president himself and sometimes now the press secretary is taking more questions from the public.

it's -- >> testing capacity, president trump this week pushed inaccuratestatistics. >> we are way ahead on testing. we are the best in the world on testing. we've tested much more than anybody else times two. or every country combined, we've tested more than every country combined. >> number of people tested based op population size and the u.s. is definitely not testing more than every other country combined. they tested 6.8 million people and the world total is more than 36 million people. joining me now is an associate professor at oregon health and science university center for policy and research in emergency medicine and dr. paul offen is the director of the vaccine education center at the children's hospital of philadelphia and the author of "overkill: when modern medicine goes too far."

great to see you both. harvard university study says 20 million tests a day by july is what would be needed to return to normal life. we did less than 7 million tests total in two months. so what would it take to get to the point where the u.s. has capacity to do 20 million tests a day? >> i you can assume this that's never going to happen. the governors have been asking for 5 million tests a day, 30 million a week, and it's not happening. states and districts and counties are opening to go back to work. we're about to do a grand national experiment and see who should have gone back to work and who shouldn't have and i think there will be unfortunately a price to pay here. i think we'll learn this lesson the hard way. >> we're seeing inequities in testing, seeing inequities across the board. let's talk about testing specifically. according to an analysis, of the 63 p retail-based testing sites

across the country, only 8 of those 63 are in predominantly black neighborhoods. that is about 13%. new numbers from the cdc show that about 28% of coronavirus patients are black. what needs to be done to address that inequity in testing? >> yeah. there's no reason that inequities get better in times of crisis. every time we've large health events like this, previous pandemics, it is always worse for people of color, particularly for brown and black people, as well as indigenous peoples. this is something we don't need to learn newly this time in this pandemic. history has given us plenty of examples of how this can really go awry in deepening health inequities and what we need to do is be conscious. and at every step where there is any resource, starting with testing as you say, as we roll out treatments, as a vaccine becomes available, as we

distribute health resources like ppe or personal protective equipment, we need to do that from an equity lens and actually make sure that that is distributed equally. part of that is just having statistics like you mentioned that shows where things are going and to correct them as we go. this is where a strong centralized strategy would really be helpful because we could make sure that resources are going not just to where people have the ability to make lots of noise and pull political strings and get what they need, but that we are actually looking for need and matching need with the resource. i'm afraid that's not really happening as far as i can tell. but we need to be very sensitive to this and of course correct as needed from here on for the rest of this pandemic. >> doctor, the fda has issued an emergency approval for the antiviral drug remdesivir to treat severely ill covid-19 patients. how much of a role can that play

in mitigating the current crisis? >> well, so what we found from that nih study of more than 1,000 patients is that the drug decreased the length of illness from 15 days to 11 days. that's good but disappointing on the other hand was the fact that it didn't cause a statistically significant decrease in deaths, which really is what you want. you want that drug to keep you out of the intensive care unit, to keep you off of a ventilator and to keep dpryou from dying a there's no evidence from that initial study that it did that. of course all we've seen is a press release, haven't seen all the data yet, so we wait. >> the other question, of course, when a vaccine will be ready. you have pfizer saying this week a vaccine could be ready for emergency use by this fall. is that realistic? >> i mean, time will tell. there are -- there is some news -- i think the most optistic projection has been that something will be available to some degree by this fall.

i think that is if everything goes well through early human trials. but the question is what will that mean? will that be a million vaccines? you know, scaling it is a totally different question. so probably for general public use and availability we're going to get into 2021 and b probably deep into it before we see it really available globally for everybody. >> when you talk about a vaccine like this, what is the risks in fast tracking it? >> well, the average length of time it takes for a typical research and research and development program for a vaccine is about 20 years, so when you're trying to do it in 12 to 18 months, you can assume there are steps that are going to be skipped. we can make a successful vaccine. we might not know as much as we would normally know before this vaccine rolls out to the public as we would in a typical program. we're making this vaccine at some level at risk and i think that there are uncertainties.

on the other hand, what is certain is that this virus is killing 2,000 people a day, and i think people are willing to tolerate some level of uncertainty here whereas they wouldn't for a vaccine to prevent a virus that wasn't nearly this devastating. >> dr. choo, one of the lingering questions about this virus is whether or not someone who has already contracted the virus can become sick with it again. what is the latest thinking on the risk of that happening? >> yeah. still a lot of questions here. i mean, we are starting to do antibody tests where we can see what kind of response that people have to the virus. we see that there's a big range. some people have a low antibody response, some a high antibody response, and the kind of research we need to do is see how those things correlate with your risk for reinfection. so i think more questions than answers right now, but hopefully the current clinical research will give us a lot more information about reinfection

rates and what kind of antibody response you need to confirm immunity to reinfection. >> dr. choo and dr. offit, thank you both so much. up next, joe biden denies sexual assault allegations made by a former senate staffer. and there's a fight to release decades-old documents that may shed more light on the alleged incident. and nancy pelosi has a tough decision to make. when can the house of representatives get back to business as usual? i'm jo ann jenkins with aarp. in these challenging times, we need each other more than ever. we may be apart, but we're not alone. use aarp community connections to find or create a mutual aid group near you. stay connected and help those in need. so chantix can help you quit slow turkey. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye.

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obama administration and campaign officials are coming to former vice president joe biden's defense today after a former staffer accused him of sexual assault. political organizer patty solis doyle tweeted this morning, "i ran vp nominee operations for the obama campaign in '08. when biden was selected i served as his chief of staff. no sexual harassment or assault allegation ever came up against

him." back in march, tara reade accused biden of sexually assaulting her in 1993 when she worked in his office. she told nbc news she originally filed a complaint of harassment but not assault at the time. the former vice president responded to the claim yesterday on msnbc. >> would you please go on the record with the american people. did you sexually assault tara reade? >> no. it is not true. i'm saying unequivocally. it never, never happened. >> why not release any complaints that have been made against you during your senate career? >> i'm prepared to do that. to the best of my knowledge, there have been no complaints made against me in terms of my senate career. i don't know why after 27 years all of a sudden this gets raised. beyond it. but i'm not going to go in and question her motive. i'm not going to attack her. >> let's bring in nbc reporters josh letterman and ali vitali. ali, you just spoke with tara

reade. what did she tell you? >> reporter: yeah. alicia, this sort of brings up the latest occurrence in this story because there is a quest for a paper trail right now. tara reade has told us that she filed a complaint of sexual harassment back in 1993 with the senate personnel office. now the question is what's in that complaint and where it exist. we heard joe biden on friday morning with msnbc saying that the national archives would have that because it's a personnel-related file. last night he sent a letter to the secretary of the senate saying that he hopes if that paper, if it exists, can be located and released publicly. the national archives for their part now say that the senate would have control over those documents, which sort of leave us questioning where physically those documents may be if they can be found at all. then it brings me to what i heard from tara reade today, who, you know, has said to us in the past that this complaint was filed about harassment and not assault. i want to read to you a text

message she sent to me today, though. she said i filed a complaint re sexual harassment and retaliation, but i am not sure what explicit words on that intake form until we all see it again. and so of course alicia, if we are able to get our hands on what that paper complaint looks like, it's important to point out the expectation is that it's going to be talking about harassment, not about this alleged assault. >> josh, we heard that clip of biden's reaction. what else have you heard from him? >> reporter: well, the biden campaign in the last 24 hours or so has been really trying to show that the former vice president has nothing to hide, and that's why you've seen his campaign as ali and our colleague mike memoli have been reporting, trying to show they're willing and wanting all of this documentation, wherever it exists, to come out, even as this confusion has played out in the last 24 hours or so. is it at the university of delaware, the national archives,

or with the secretary of the senate? the strategy here from the biden campaign is to try to project the image they're being as transparent as possible about this, not holding anything back in hopes that that will starve this story line of too much more oxygen and hopefully for the vice president bring this to a conclusion sooner than later. >> what has been the reaction to the vice president's interview? >> reporter: yeah, alicia, democrats have been walking a really fine line on this because on the one hand they don't want to give more fodder to republicans to attack the vice president over an allegation that still has a lot of questions around it. on the other hand, they don't want to send the message that women should be believed when they come forward except if it's the democratic presidential nominee in 2020. so you've seen some democrats actually coming to the vice president's defense such as former michigan governor jennifer granholm who she says

she believes vice president bide and tweeted in story has been heard and vetted, no staffer remembers it, no complaint found, move on. we've seen other groups including a lot of democratic women's groups be much more cautious, not really weigh in either way on whether they believe miss reade's allegations at the end of the day but to try to say that it was a good first step for bide on the come forward and to start answering these questions. then alicia, on the other side, republicans, they have a fine line to walk on this too because of all of the questions about president trump and allegations that women have made against him. so we saw his campaign do something interesting, which is try to shift the focus to brett kavanagh and what they see as a double standard with what democrats did to him when he was accused of misconduct during his confirmation fight. we saw the trump campaign spokeswoman saying in a statement that during the justice's hearings, biden made clear that all women should be believed when they come forward. in a dramatic shift biden now

says believe women doesn't actually men believe women. trump himself taking a different tact than his advisers, seeming to be sympathetic to this idea that people in positions of power come under false accusations. he went on a radio show yesterday to say that joe biden should go ahead and fight this. >> all right. josh and ali, thank you both so much. today on the heels of his interview regarding the sexual assault claim, 2020 presidential candidate, former vice president joe biden sits down with al sharpt sharpton. watch "politics nation" today at 5:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. up next, american citizens married to undocumented immigrants maybe shut out from federal stimulus money.

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featuring the emmy award-winning voice remote. access to your favorite apps, including netflix, prime video, youtube and hulu. all without changing passwords and inputs. the most 4k content and movies and shows on any screen. the best entertainment experience all in one place. a class action lawsuit filed against the trump administration claims its unjust for those married to immigrants are not coming through. nancy pelosi says it's a monumental injustice as kochk ramps up for a battle in putting together the next coronavirus relief package. i'd like to bring in two guests. ali, a spokesman for the irs

told nbc news that americans in a mixed status marriage will still get a stimulus payment if they file tax returns separately. if they've already filed they won't be getting a payment this year and they'll have to wait until next year and submit their taxes individually. what does this mean practically for these families? >> it means practically we could see up to 1.2 million families go without much-needed financial assistance this year through the c.a.r.e.s. act. that's the estimate of the migration policy institute in terms of u.s. citizens married to undocumented immigrants. and if they are filing -- have filed or are filing their taxes together, the c.a.r.e.s. act -- they will not get financial assistance through the c.a.r.e.s. act. ultimately, that's going to affect families, the households and most importantly the children, should they have any, who are, you know, at most risk in this moment of time. >> dara, i always look to you for legal analysis.

what is the basis for this lawsuit? >> so, the lawsuit is arguing that it's unconstitutional for the c.a.r.e.s. act to treat u.s. citizens differently based on whether they are married to somebody who doesn't have a social security number. it's not actually a lawsuit of the kind that we typically have seen under the trump administration, which argues that something the executive branch is doing is contrary to what congress intended. this is a lawsuit against both the trump administration and senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. at the same time, democrats are also now arguing that the irs has a little bit of flexibility in how it interprets the law. that's kind of a newer argument that we're seeing ramp up as democrats come out more strongly against this provision which at the time was pretty clear they'd written out in the c.a.r.e.s. act which, when it was enacted, it was, you know, clearly all the analysis that happened at

that time, that it would not apply to these mixed-status families. >> ali, do you see this as something that will ultimately be resolved by the courts or something that is going to be resolved by congress? >> i mean, it's clear that the legal community is going to make the push through the courts, but it's also great to see that speaker pelosi is trying to figure out what's the solution that could be put in place for future stimulus packages. i think that this is another reason why when you have cities like minneapolis stepping up and saying, you know what, we are going to invest $5 million in our immigrant community so that the undocumented can pay their rent and pay their utility bills, there are important steps to be taken at the local level in places like minneapolis or california and elsewhere where you have local officials who truly understand the response and recovery to covid-19 is about all of us, regardless of the status, that those local elected officials are stepping up into this breach. >> dara, i want to get your take

on another immigration headline coming out this week. trump this week tying federal aid to state's cooperation with adjusting their sanctuary city policies. what is the white house's objective here? >> it's not -- it's never 100% clear whether when donald trump says things like this is going to become a priority for the white house in negotiations or whether it's just trump finding another way to get to his preferred immigration message, which isn't about taking jobs or welfare or any of that, it's about crime and how people are -- immigrants are very dangerous. talking about sanctuary city ace lous him to do that. however, given that there are still active lawsuits about whether they can even tie department of justice grants to sanctuary city status and in fact the administration got a couple of rulings this week in those cases, it is by no means clear that you can tie totally unrelated to law enforcement funding to whether local and state governments give up sanctuary policies.

>> ali, what do you see as the connective tissue between all of these stories? because you have the story about mixed status families not being able to access their stimulus checks. you have this story about sanctuary cities in the meanwhile in the background of all of this, daca recipients waiting for the supreme court ruling. what ties those stories together? >> what ties that is all together is the fact that the administration, the president, as he's going into his re-election campaign, is really trying to spike the energy within his base to come out against the idea of immigrants contributing to the response and recovery much less the future of immigration. that's what's behind the sanctuary city statements, what's behind the proclamation of last week, etc., et cetera. but what's being lost here is that for the majority of americans, particularly those who are living in the suburbs, particularry those who are living -- even in the rural

areas, they are coming to realize it is the immigrant in the meat processing plant, the immigrant at that community suburban hospital that's working shoulder to shoulder with the americans born here. so i think that the political strategy by the administration is obviously quite clear, just try to get energy within their base to get to the polls. but just like in 2018, we could see a real backlash from suburban moderate voters who are looking for a different way, who just have come to realize more clearly than ever that immigrants are working shoulder to shoulder we are the rest of us to get us through this crisis. >> dara, that is of course one of the underlying long-term questions of this moment, right, in this moment of crisis, do we expand or do we contract, looking forward to november, how do you think that all of this plays into this conversation and this debate over immigration reform in america? >> i think that it's going to be very interesting to see over the

next several months whether americans can mover out -- whether they end up moving out of a model where the immediate problem is kind of the pandemic response and the economic response and that is seen as the single issue and everything else kind of takes a back seat or whether efforts to connect this to the things that have been the key public policy issues of the trump administration -- immigration obviously foremost among those -- and retaining a little bit of national attention. because otherwise we do risk having a situation where an immensely powerful federal government is making very aggressive decisions on a lot of fronts, ends up getting evaluated based on its response to a fairly narrow facet just because it's happened in the last six months. >> dara and ali, thank you both so much. up next, there is no doubt that nancy pelosi is a towering figure in american politics. now for the first time, a new

biography is trying to define her place in history. we'll talk to the author about that and how pelosi is handling our current moment in time. >> reporter: how much do you miss watching your favorite sports teams? i'm chris jansing at progressive field where the indians were supposed to be playing the giants tonight. when will we see the indians, the browns, the cavs, any of the sports teams in stadiums like this with fans? we'll talk about it tonight at o'clock eastern in a special hour only on msnbc. nly on msnbc i'm your mother in law. and i like to question your every move. like this left turn. it's the next one. you always drive this slow? how did you make someone i love? that must be why you're always so late. i do not speed. and that's saving me cash with drivewise. [mayhem] you always drive like an old lady? [tina] you're an old lady.

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she is one of the most powerful women in america. and while much has been written about how speaker of the house nancy pelosi, molly ball is taking a look in her new book "pelosi." a joint statement coming out from nancy pelosi and mitch mcconnell and saying while they

were gritfateful for the rapid t made available to them they were going to stick to cdc guidelines on testing. i wonder having studied and written about nancy pelosi, how much of her rise has prepared her and informed her for this moment of crisis? >> yeah, i think you could ask pretty much anyone in her caucus and they would say they can't imagine anyone to be better suited at this moment. based on her history of doing quite similar things, including helping an unpopular republican president save the meamerican economy from collapses as she did back in 2008 in the financial crisis with george w. bush. i think from her perspective, she is willing to work in a bipartisan manner, whether it's with mitch mcconnell or with donald trump, but she demands to be part of that negotiation.

she feels like the american people put democrats in charge for a reason and they need to be at the table. she was saying you're not going to do this unilaterally, we're going to do this at the table this is the perils of writing a biography of someone who is still in leadership. i'm sure you pressed send long before the coronavirus was rocking america. when you think about it, how much will this piece come to define her ultimate legacy? >> it's a really good question. i don't think we know. no spoilers but, yes, the book does end before the current crisis. i really think that at peace with a lot that i write about in the book and hopefully readers will come away&ing better how she is approaching this moment. you ask her about her legacy, i remember asking her during

impeachment, which was also a quite significant episode at the time, whether she thought that would be her legacy. and she sort of grimaced and said she'd like the affordable care act to be her legacy. and she finally finished under very difficult circumstances. when she is asked why do you do what you do, she always says "the children, the children, the children." she feels her ultimate goal is improving the lives of the children. everything she does is geared at that in some way. she would look at something like the affordable care act and wes wished she had been able to tackle things like income

inequality and climate chamber of commerce. >> you write what is most striking about the moment in pelosi's career is that at the peak of power, she is not protecting her position but using it in risky ways. how so? >> i think impeachment was a big risk. i think though people felt she had to be forced to do it, pushed to do it, it was a big risk to take and she did ultimately take it. i think this is a side of her that a lot of people don't know or fully appreciate is how bold and aggressive she can be and has been flout hthroughout her . it particularly remarkable of a woman in her generation, a woman whose parents expected her to be a nun, to have had so many moments gone for something, whether it's challenging the male power structure of the house of representatives, coming out against the iraq war at a

time when many top democrats thought that was too politically risky to do because it was so popular and george w. bush was so popular. there are multiple moments in her career. there's an amazing episode where she went to tiananmen square and challenged chinese authorities back in 1991. she really is a risk taker. she's a gambler as i said in that risk i wrote for "time" and people who see her as a cautious and calculating politician don't necessarily understand that. >> the book is called "pelosi," thank you so much. >> thank you. >> that what happens it up for this hour. the reverend of a sharpton has joe biden on his show tonight. you can see that at the top of the hour coming you on "politics nation." coming you on "politics nation." hold my pouch. trust us. us kids are ready to take things into our own hands. don't think so? hold my pouch.

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good evening and welcome to "politics nation." we start tonight with the 2020 presidential race transformed by the coronavirus outbreak. in a moment you'll hear from apparent democratic nominee joe biden, who now leading president trump in polls both national and in key battleground states. despite the fact that the public health c