the stress through mail-in voting. we have the capacity. we need the funding. and the cares package, the next one passed needs to include those dollars. >> all right. stacey abrams, it is always great to get a chance to talk to you. thank you for making time tonight. >> thank you for having me. that is "all in" for this evening. the rachel maddow show starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris. thanks very much, my friend. much appreciated. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. happy to have you with us tonight. on april 10th, three and a half weeks ago, vice president mike pence spoke at the white house, about a worrying new situation that was emerging in northeastern colorado, a town called greeley, colorado, which is up sort of near ft. collins. >> i spoke today to the governor of colorado, we've been in contact with senator corey gardner, about an outbreak at a particular meat packing facility

in the colorado area. at this time, our team is working with the governor, and working with the senator, to ensure that we flow testing resources. at this point, there are some 14 people hospitalized, maybe two to 300 of the work force have been impacted, and we spoke about providing those resources this week. >> we will provide those resources this weekend. he spoke about providing those resources this weekend. this weekend. right away. vice president, right on it. right away. we're all working together on this. a serious situation. don't worry. we've got this. we're on it. as vice president pence said, there as he spoke, there were 14 people from that one workplace who already had been hospitalized. i should tell you, by that same night, the night that mike pence spoke about that plant in greeley, colorado, that evening, two people who worked at that

plant died. but if the white house is on it, the plant was working with the white house directly, i mean they're being talked about publicly by the vice president, about how they're going to surge testing resources there. the company who runs that plant in greeley put out a statement that same day. said quote, today, jbs usa announces it is working in partnership with the u.s. federal government, the colorado governor and the u.s. senator corey gardner to secure covid-19 tests for all of its team members, at the greeley, colorado, beef production facility. all right. everybody is singing from the same him nal. we're on it. we have a prop here. we're on it. we're going to guest get testing for all team members at the beef production facility in greeley. the company did not do that. despite those pronouncements from the without. despite that public promise from the company. they didn't test all their workers. they decided they would close for a while. and then reopen, and start running the plant again without

testing everybody who works there. and the local reporting from colorado on what happened there, in terms of that change in course, this is reporting that we have corroborated with one federal official, what apparently happened there is that the plant did initially start to do testing of everybody who worked in that plant. they started testing managers in greeley, and supervisors in greeley, first, and the results of those tests were reportedly over40% positive and when they got those results, then the company decided actually they weren't going to test all their workers after all. because imagine what they would find. and so they reopened, without testing everybody, but the day they reopened several days ago, six of their employees were dead, hundreds known to be positive, but the company deciding not to test everybody who works there, before they go back in. even though they publicly announced that's what they would do, and even though a public

order from the county health department in weld county, colorado, told them that they must do that testing. the company just didn't. and i should correct myself there. i said that the jbs plant in greeley colorado that has now reopened has had six of its employees die already, since we started our updating for the, the updated reporting on the story for tonight's show, i need to tell you that a seventh person who works at that plant has now died. seven people from the same workplace. we also got in touch with the daughter of a woman who has worked at that greeley plant for 11 years. the reason that we got in touch is because she wanted us to see, she wanted us to show you, a photo of her mom, from where she is today, because where her mom is today is in the intensive care unit at the university of

colorado hospital in aurora. her name is tin. she has worked at the jbs beef production facility in kbreelgr colorado, for 11 years, this is the plant that just reopened after seven of the employees died, and reopened without testing the rest of the people who worked there, and we spoke with tin's daughter and she told us that tin first went to her workplace, she went to what she described as the clinic at the jbs plant to tell them she felt ill and had difficulty breathing and ended up taking one day off because she felt bad and when she came back to work, she got worse, she was admitted to the hospital on march 29th and soon after her admission, she has been unconscious and as you can see, on a ventilator. again, at the university of colorado hospital in aurora. i should also tell you that tin's daughter who we spoke to

tonight, she just gave birth. she spent time with her mom, while her mom was feeling poorly. the day before her mother was admitted to the hospital, in aurora, her daughter, her 28-year-old daughter, started having contractions, she was pregnant, the hospital at that point was testing all pregnant women when they came in, and tin's 28-year-old daughter tested positive, and she was admitted, she had an emergency c-section, and now she and her baby are recovering. i should also tell you that tin's son is a u.s. marine who is currently deployed in the pacific, he has not been able to get leave to come home and to help while this is what's been happening back home in colorado. again, there are seven people dead. we don't know the total number of hospitalizations but we do know this is one of the workers at jbs greeley. tin is a member of the union that represents the workers at

the jbs beef plant in greeley, colorado. they told us that they have filed a family medical leave act claim on tin's behalf but it has been a couple of weeks since then, and they say so far they have heard nothing on that. here is kim cordova the head of the union for these workers at that plant. you might remember that we had her on the show about a week ago. >> they signed up for a job to, you know, process meat, protein for this country, they didn't sign up to die, you know, and we don't want a, this job to be a death sentence for workers. they're not fungible widgets. they are not disposable objects. >> i should tell you that we contacted jbs tonight, the company that owns this plant, that reopened this plant without testing all their workers, despite the fact that they had an agreement with the county health department that they would test all of the workers despite the fact that they said they were working with the white

house, to secure tests for all of their workers, despite their public statements, to that effect, they reopened without testing all of their workers, seven of their workers have died, we know at least one is hospitalized and on a ventilator. we don't know how many other ventilators there are hospitalized, more than 3,000 people who work in that plant and they have reopened it without testing everybody before they go in. and we asked jbs, i find this almost unbelievable, i'm just going to tell you what they said, we asked jbs tonight about tin, about this 60-year-old who has worked at that plant for 11 years, she's got a daughter who has just given birth, who the family believes she also is infected with coronavirus that she brought home from the plant, she's got a son in the marine corps who can't get home to see her, she has been in the hospital, she's on a ventilator, she's unconscious, she has been there for more than a month, we asked jbs tonight about this employee, the woman who you just saw the picture of, and this is how they responded. they took issue with the way

that the family characterized what happened here. this is their statement when we asked for comment. quote, we do not have a company-affiliated clinic in greeley. we do have an on-site health services team that is focused on diagnosing and treating occupational health injuries and illnesses only, because this isn't she got occupationally, and that clinic does not, or excuse me, this facility does not provide primary care medical services. the health services team directs team members to their primary care doctor for further evaluation, if situations are outside of their focus area. jbs also tells her, that her fmla claim will be processed consistent with our protocol. so they want you to know that when she was feeling shortness of breath, and having fever and sweating, she went to go talk to the on-site health team, at that plant, with 3,000 workers, they want you to know that we

shouldn't call that a clinic, because they're an on-site health services team focused on diagnosing and treating occupational health injuries and illnesses only, and they direct team members to their primary care doctor for further evaluation, so if she, you know, this is on her. she had been in the hospital on a ventilator for more than a month. today, the secretary of agriculture, in the trump administration, sonny perdue, sent a sort of bizarre letter to jbs and to the other major american meat processor companies in this country and his letter to them basically told them that they need to open up all of their plants right now or else. it actually says at one point in the letter, quote, i exhort you to do this. semi colin. further action under the defense's executive order in the

defense protection act is under consideration and will be taken if necessary. i exhort you to reopen these plants. you must. or else. i am threatening you. that's what the trump administration is doing at these plants where thousands of blue collar workers are being infected. the trump administration is exhorting them, threatening them, get back open, while they are not making it mandatory for those plants to follow rules on how to operate in the midst of the epidemic next certainly could. they decided not to make them mandatory. and what we're seeing is the companies don't even uniformly plan to test everyone so they know who is positive before they reopen the plants. some plants are testing everybody. but not all of them are. and nobody's making them. but the federal government is just ordering them reopened. and we are seeing, even in plants with hundreds of known positives, even in plants with

multiple known deaths among the people who work there, even in plants where they've got multiple workers in the hospital, and like tin, on ventilators fighting for their lives right now, some of these companies are very happy to reopen without testing people before they walk in the door. we'll screen them for fever. if they're asymptomatic and spreading it, can you hold us to account for that? we have liability protection thanks to the president's executive order so we know you can't sue us and there is the trump administration, i exhort you to reopen or else, because that's how we're handling this. this is distopic. today, the iowa governor, kim reynolds, was brought to the white house for a kind of show and tell session, so they put her in front of a placard that says what prlt has given to iowa. kind of a show and tell session where governor reynolds and secretary "i exhort you" perdue, president trump and vice president pence all talked about how great things are going in

iowa. >> we're still monitoring it. we turned a corner. >> you talk to a great heartland governor like governor kim reynolds one of the great stories of the coronavirus outbreak has been in our food supply, has continued to work every day. >> yeah, it has been a great story with the food supply, it has been fan-freaking-tastic, right? the white house and republican governors really want to sell the idea of how we've all turned the corner, right? things are all better now. when it comes to the meat plants shall the only problem is they're closed for some reason. well, we can fix that. tell them to open. everything's fine now. in fact, why is anything closed? everything is fine now. when governor reynolds talked about turning the corner, i'm not sure if this is what she meant but these are the corners that i am aware of right now in iowa. this is a look at the daily death toll in iowa. how the number of people dieing

from coronavirus every day in that state is relentlessly and pretty steeply rising. that's the line, the seven-day rolling average. it's really bad. this is a look at their new cases every day in iowa. and again, you've got the raw data there on the graph and then the darker line is the seven-day rolling average. that's really bad. that's bad. but that's kind of what's happening in almost all of the states that are reopening. states moving forward with reopening are seeing increases in new coronavirus cases. yes, right. because nobody based their reopening on the fact that they didn't have a problem and reopening creates a larger problem than you've already got. so we're seeing this dynamic at work, in states that are reopening and you're seeing it, especially in cases, in states, particularly like the big meat processing states, iowa, south dakota, nebraska, among them, the states where they didn't do much of anything in the way of

the stay-at-home order in the first place, you're seeing it particularly. and you're seeing it in some states that didn't put in some kind of stay-at-home orders reluctantly, and then they ripped them off like in georgia for example, the journal-constitution, reporting on hard-hit gainsville georgia, where case numbers rose exponentially every week in april but the governor still insisted on lifting all of the stay-at-home orders nationwide even where the numbers were taking off as a rocket. in gainesville, georgia, the last week in march they were at 12 new cases a day on average, the following week was 22 new cases a day, the following week, 47 new cases a day, the following week, 61 new cases a day, and now at 95 new cases a day, and let's see how high it can go. but they're removing all stay-at-home orders, everywhere in georgia, across the board, because why are we doing this anyway? who really cares? why are states like this, states with problems like this,

reopening? well, i mean in the case of iowa, you're seeing them get praised by the president. y-one of the great success stories. but also, you know, who is to tell them not to reopen? >> there are four criteria that states should meet in order to safely reopen. the first is to see the number of new cases decline for at least two weeks. the other is enough public health capacity to conduct contact tracing on all new cases. and the diagnostic testing to test everybody with covid-like symptoms, not just those with severe illness and enough health care system capacity to treat everyone safely. to my knowledge, there are no states that meet all four of those criteria. >> expert testimony today from johns hopkins in congress. there are no states that meet all four of those criteria. but go ahead, georgia. go ahead, iowa. whatever you want. call it whatever you want. however much governor kim reynolds of iowa may have

enjoyed her show and tell visit at the white house today, i should tell you that she began the week back in iowa apologizing for the continued delay in test results in her state. iowans have been waiting a week or longer to get their test results after they turned up to get tested for coronavirus. and that is days longer than what they were promised to show up for the test and those delays are not just for regular citizens, they're also health workers who lined up for governor reynolds new statewide testing program which she unveiled with great fanfare a couple of weeks ago, a program called test iowa. pay a lot of money for it. unveiled it with great fanfare. well, two days ago, governor reynolds apologized for the test iowa backlog, said she hoped to get the problem squared away soon. and you know, maybe it will just be a short-term issue that the iowa governor does seem to be working on it, talking about it publicly, the apology is a good thing but iowa has a really big problem. iowa has a big problem in the

way that all meat packing states have problems right now. iowa also has a problem in that their numbers are going like this and the governor seems to think that means things are getting better when they're not. lack of access to reliable testing in a state that's having those kinds of problems is bad. it is probably a little bit worse than it is just bad everywhere. but i have a story to tell you tonight, about the specific reason that iowa's testing sucks in particular. it turns out to be a really specific story. it applies to iowa and two other states that have screwed up testing. it's a bizarre story that comes out of a different state all together. i don't think you've heard. it and you are going to want to hear it next. it and you are going to want to hear it next give me your hand! i can save you... lots of money with liberty mutual! we customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need!

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help. you know how california has silicon valley. utah has what they like to call silicon slopes. which ends up being relevant to the story. i never heard that before. but that is a thing. silicon slopes, tech in utah. the ceo from one of those silicon slopes companies, a company called know me health, emailed colleagues in the tech industry on march 14th with his idea. first posted by the salt lake tribune. we have a solution that we want to put together with the silicon slopes community that provides free testing for up to 50,000 people, sponsored by all of us. let's solve it. we pay for it. we pay manufacturers of tests, labs, and pharmacies directly, for testing, and med packs for our employees and families. no noise. states already at this point, you know, struggling to get a hold of testing kits and supplies, and here is this utah tech ceo saying no noise, let's solve it, we'll pay for, it 50,000 test force the state of utah, we know how to do this.

right from the beginning, government officials in utah seemed both intrigued and perplexed by whatever this was. the chief of staff, for the lieu tenant governor wrote, quote, really interesting. quote, i mean we're working our dammedest to get access to reagent and other testing supplies and even swabs are scarce and right now the money is not an issue, we have a rainy day fund. i wonder what he knows that we don't. and if it turns out to be legit, i'm sure health care would be great. keep me posting. if it turns out to be legit, somebody is thinking ahead. the ceo it turns out was not shy about his own learning curve. if anything, the ceo sounded excited about his deeply sloped learning curve. here he is speaking about it on april 1st. >> it's been a really fantastic experience, a few weeks ago, if

none of us knew anything about lab testing, what we did know though is we had to do something if we banded together and could do something if we banded together to go pull this thing off and get people in utah back to work. the behind the scenes, how do i say this nicely, we aren't doctors, and so sometimes doctors don't always appreciate our opinion. as i say, the difference between god and doctors is that god doesn't generally think he's a doctor. >> we're not doctors, so you are not a doctor, so what, you knew you said nothing three weeks ago about lab testing, in any way, shape or form, on the very next day after that interview, the governor of utah held a press conference, with the tech ceos, to announce a big new partnership with the utah tech community, the guys who were

admitted they knew nothing about this stuff just a few weeks ago but they definitely now knew better than all the doctors. they seem so confident. what they announced the very next day is something that would be called test utah. the tech companies would be doing this service in utah, as a service, it wouldn't be for profit, and they were not going to just bend the curve of the infection rate in utah, they were going to crush the curve. that's what they called their web site. crush the curve. since then, there has been a cascade of local reporting and serious questions and qualms raised about the what the test utah program is actually doing. the salt lake tribune cited data showing at the times at test utah sites were showing up positive at less than half of the rate of all testing being done by all other entities in utah. one doctor on the state coronavirus task force expressed real concern about the disparity, saying, quote, what alarms me the most is that they are expanding collection and testing with these unknowns about how their tests perform. if correct, i urge you to halt

their testing, until we understand why their results differer so much from what other labs are reporting. this is a potential public health disaster. this is a doctor who is on the statewide coronavirus task force, writing to the head of that task force, because quote, a pandemic is not the time for amateurs to learn. the companies behind test utah told the salt lake tribune that the reason their tests were showing much lower rates of infection than all other tests in utah is just because they were testing a wider swab of utah's population than everybody else was, and so they were just testing more negative people. the tribune pointed out, rightfully, that even if you just look at the sub-set of people who were showing symptoms at the time they were testing, even the symptomatic people tested by test utah got positive results, from the test, rates far below than the rate reported at other test sites in the state. reporters then discovered that despite the idea of the tech companies solving utah's testing

program for free, 50,000 sponsored tests from the companies, the state of utah nevertheless somehow morphed this into a $5 million no bid contract, for the companies, along with 600,000 dollars a month for each testing site that test utah would set up across the state despite the concerns about the quality of their testing. reporters kept digging. the salt lake tribune found the ceo who first pitched the idea was also involved in the deal for the state of utah to purchase $800,000 from a stockpile of hydroxychloroquine. high drofrmy chloroquine is of course the untested malaria drug that the president promoted relentlessly without science to back it up right before the fda started warning it could have serious complications and the tech ceo that helped to arrange this $800,000 purchase of the drug by the state just also happened to sit on the board of a company that was manufacturing

hydroxychloroquine, a company that was manufacturing the version of that drug that was being purchased by the state. at a significant markup. it should be noted. salt lake tribune pointed out that one of the questions test utah asked potential test domestic violence ee e ee testees, whether they were allergic to hydroxychloroquine. and utah ended up canceling that $800,000 purchase, and now being looked at by the state auditor, and the governor is importantly denying that he had any idea that any of that happened, each though it was cleared by his office. the questions about test utah in utah have been sustained and considerable. i should tell you the principal company, the one that came up with the idea, depended their work today when we asked about, it they set out to provide free

testing at the community at fraction of the cost that states might otherwise pay. quote, we have succeeded on each front so far, but have taken an amazing number of attacks from health care incumbents, and others who are uncomfortable with a complete disruption of the status quo, and the loss of millions in revenue from testing and screening, this approach was necessary in light of the failed national promises for support. we raised our hand to help, which evolved from donating tests and covering costs for potential treatments that was being explored to manage the pandemic response too manage the volume of testing and asked to do so in other states like iowa and nebraska. and once the utah government gave its sort of seal approval to the test utah idea, it did get adopted by other states. it's not just utah anymore. that same collection of companies is now behind the test iowa program that has the iowa governor apologizing for the backlog and her state's

considerable outbreaks in meat packing plants. her services in iowa, test iowa, got a $26 million no bid contract with the state. same company also got a $27 million no bid contract with the state of nebraska. which sits right alongside iowa for coronavirus outbreaks in meat packing plants. the state of nebraska this week opened its first test nebraska site in grand island. nearly 600 meat packing workers from one plant have already tested positive. and they've got now a huge outbreak in that community. ahead of that opening, officials in nebraska were raising concerns about this program and why nebraska was going along with this utah consortium, that seemed to be causing so much consternation, and so many serious technical questions elsewhere. two weeks ago, nebraska state senator megan hunt told her constituents she was concerned about the privacy of the information of the testing program, she was using the freedom of information act to try to get a hold of state's

contract for test nebraska, since otherwise it wasn't public. and test nebraska cost taxpayers $27 million but the state has kept nebraskaens and the legislature totally in the dark about any contract signed. through her own foia request, and never ended up getting a copy of $27 million contract, she got a promise from the governor to not sell anyone's data, anybody who signed up for test nebraska, but given the way this has been playing out in her state, and in other state, senator hunt does not sound what you would want to call satisfied. she says quote, i appreciate that the state wanted to act fast but this absolutely could have been done in a transparent way with regard to taxpayer dollars. this is an irresponsible solution, that's convenient for several private utah-based corporations, and also coming a bit late. is this how we are going to fix the testing problem in this country? with a patch work of proposals from people who decide to learn this thing as they do and who

disdain the ideas of doctors who might actually know what they're doing? contracts that even elected officials have to fight to see. in the states that most desperately need to be testing everyone right now. is in the way forward? watch this. watch this my time is thin, but so is my lawn. now there's scotts thick'r lawn 3-in-1 solution. with a soil improver! seed! and fertilizer to feed! now yard time is our time. this is a scotts yard.

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it doesn't care whether you're located in your home, prison or on a cruise. it will face us all. this is a social issue. a health issue. that we're all facing. we're no different. they're no different. we all are trying to survive this pandemic. we're all trying to come out alive. and it shouldn't be any different for those who are behind bars. >> those women you see there are all criminal justice reform advocates and all ex-prisoners

as well all served time as the yooz correctional institute for women, also known as lciw, and now that they're on the outside working as advocate, they say they've been getting dozens of emails a day from women who are still inside that louisiana correctional institute for women, telling them about the very worrying situation inside that facility when it comes to coronavirus. >> so we would like to share some quotes from our sisters on the inside, because we receive emails daily from the women inside, and we just want to briefly share some of the quotes with you, so you can get an understanding of what their mentality, and what they're going through emotionally right now. and i quote, four buildings are crammed packed with people. 80 to 90 women in a closed-up

space. >> the bed areas are only about two to three feet apart. >> it's day 11 of the coronavirus lockout at, lockdown and we have 25 cases on the board. >> it what are they waiting for? >> they brought an older lady with chronic illness that tested negative for the virus, and placed her on our dorm to be quarantined for the next 24 days with us. >> but if she tested negative, why put her with us? couldn't that be placing her at risk? >> all those with the quarantine, come them to the dorm, where no one is sick, putting the healthy in harm's way. >> this is going to be rough before it gets better.

>> kitchen workers that stay here in autumn fear for their life. they don't want to go to work in the kitchen. they are being told that they will be locked up if they don't go to work. >> and i'm just trying to stay alive. >> we need a voice. thank you. >> please keep us in your prayers. pray for us. >> we need help and prayer. >> trusting in god to bring us through. >> as i said though, were some quotes from the women on the inside. >> and we end here by asking people to contact louisiana's governor, john bell edwards, to ask him to immediately sign the

pardons that are on his desk. they ask that he release more prisoners that are vulnerable or elderly and ask to implement proper oversight to ensure that people are safe inside of prisons. that last point, particularly important, because of something we have learned in the last 24 hours. again, what we're talking about there, that facility from which they were reading those email, is the louisiana correctional institute for women, lciw. as of this week, they tested and one entire dorm at lciw, 195 prisoners in that dorm, 192 of the 195 women in that dorm tested positive. it's the only place that i've actually seen in america that has produced virtually a 100% infection rate. you know, it is not a mystery where this virus is running amok. nursing homes. meat processing plants. prisons. it's not a secret. and regardless of how scary these big outbreaks, are you

need to know where the virus is. so that you can figure out who's going to need help, you can figure out how many people in your community are likely to get it and get sick and need care and potentially even die. you need the data. one of the things we're focusing on tonight is a state that has decided right as they are opening up in terms of social distancing, that actually they are going to shut off one of their main sources of data, about what's happening with the epidemic in their state. they're going to stand down on one of the most important sources of data about what's happening in their state, just as they're opening up. it is a truly weird story. and that is next. d story. and that is next okay, where were we? yeah, i'm done after this meeting. we're just going over how people who switch to progressive can save hundreds. hey mara! - yeah jamie's the guy running it. - mara, you're not on mute. i once had to fake jury duty to get out of talking about his yogurt preferences. mara, you know you're not on mute, right? oh, there's a mute button? yeah, that's flo! the one who looks like she'd smile while she sleeps.

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visit hope.tidecleaners.com to learn more. a week ago, arizona's governor told the people of his state that he was going to extend his stay-at-home order for arizona through mid may. he says the available data on the spread of the virus in arizona suggested it wouldn't be safe to reopen the economy there for at least a couple more weeks. the available data the governor and his team are looking at

included a predictive model being worked on by a couple of experts at two of arizona's top university, the state health department said they wanted a targeted arizona-specific model, and so professors at the university of arizona, and arizona state, they offered up their services to do that, as experts for free. and what they turned up was useful and specific, a mathematical epidemiologist leading the modeling told the arizona republic last month said that not reopening the state toward the end of may was the only scenario that didn't put us on an exponentially growth curve and i can say scientifically it is not safe to reopen unless you're planning to shut down again in a couple of weeks. that's how things stood in arizona. but then donald trump came to town. the president trump flew into arizona to make an unmasked visit to a mask fact ry

yesterday and the arizona governor announced as that was happening that he would in fact, accelerate the opening up of businesses in arizona, the president of course has been encouraging this sort of thing all over the country so forget the extension of the stay-at-home order, that's off. salons and barber shops in arizona, you're good to go, this friday, restaurants, customers can start dine-in service next monday, forget what they said before, apparently the data was suddenly looking much rosier than it had just days earlier. turns out, that's because the governor administration found a new model for the epidemic in their state that they decided they really like and tells them much happier thing and it is a model they say they got from the trump administration. arizona's health department says that this model they got from the trump administration shows that even if the governor lifted the stay at lome order right away, and things woepd all the way back up, the state would still be fine. i can only show you though what they say about it because we're

not allowed to see this supposed model. it's a secret model created by the federal government, maybe by fema, they say, it has not been released publicly. the governor of the state of arizona says we just have to trust them that it says what they say it says, and also that it is definitely the best, most realistic model, and we shouldn't look at any other data other than that anymore. just hours after the governor announced this new accelerated pace of reopening, based on the secret model they really liked that nobody else can see, the governor's administration contacted professors at the university of arizona and arizona state who had been doing the professional modeling for the state and told them they needed to stop their work. the state would no longer be sharing any data with them to assist them with their modeling efforts. a reporter for an arizona abc affiliate got a hold of the email that went out to those scientists and said in part, quoted quote, we've been asked by department leadership to pause all current work on

projections and modeling and we wanted to let you know as soon as possible so you wouldn't expend further time and effort needlessly. also, we've been asked to pull back the special data sets that have been shareed so give us all thanks for your service, now go home. phoenix congressman wrote to the university of arizona and asu today calling on them to ignore the governor's order and keep working on modelling for the state. a statement from asu says they will continue modelling work but will do so without further access to the internal data. one former director of arizona state health agency to stop doing this work quote astonishing. the action to disband the arizona covid-19 modelling working group begs the question whether the group was discontinued because they had been producing results inconsistent with messaging and decisions being made by the executive branch.

joining us now live is that former director of arizona state department of health services. he is will humble and executive director for the arizona public health association. thank you for your time tonight. appreciate you being here. >> good evening. thanks for the invitation. >> let me ask you if i described that in a way that is -- that makes sense and if there is anything that i'm sort of putting emphasis on there that is out of joint. >> no, that intro you just did was spot on. i was thinking what am i on here for? she hit the nail on the head. that's just like what happened. >> great. what i wanted to ask you about is your use of the word astonishing to describe this move by administration to shut down the modelling that these universities were doing. why do you find it astonishing. >> look at the situation. they have 20 of the best researchers that are super talented and really experienced at this modelling willing to volunteer their time, not get paid for it because they wanted to be part of the response and

provide valuable information for policy workers to make decisions and come up with a good product at the end of april that's super useful, has all kinds of scenarios to help decision making and then suddenly, they're asked to stop their work. i mean, i could see it if they were on a big contract and it would be expensive or something but these are folks that were providing a great product for free and by the way, the most talented people in the state. >> i will also say what we know, it doesn't seem like what they were proposing or saying about the course of the epidemic in arizona was particularly -- would lend itself to policy results. they didn't say arizona needs to lockdown and stay that way until 2021. they said if you get out before the end of may, we'll see exponential growth but if you can hold on until then, we can see the way that might go, which

might be an easing of the burden in the state. i'm not an expert but my impression is what they were proposing was not something that was -- that would make it r radically difficult for the governor to govern. >> it's a 23-page report and wrote in a way to help decision makers and policy makers think through what the options are and give them an idea about what results would come from different policy decisions. it wasn't advocacy piece in any way, shape or form. it was purely a document that would be really good for policy makers. if i was an elected official, i would love to have that information and makes zero sense to me they would stop that work and, you know, now they don't have it. i don't understand it. >> let me ask you about what the state is relying on instead. it relying on a model from the

federal government. they got it from fema. we don't know what that is and according to the state health department, they will saying this model shows arizona has plenty of resources. it will be absolutely fine even if the state opens back up entirely right now but we can't see the model and it will not be made publicly available. that seems like -- that seems like a series of statements visiting from another time and another crisis. i don't even understand the type of document they might be talking about. does that make any sense to you, what they are referring to? >> i don't know anybody outside of the state health department or maybe in state government that's actually seen this model. it's not publicly available. you can't go to the website and look at the model, nor if there are arizona specific data runs out of that model, it's not available. so i mean, it's totally non-transparent and i just -- you know, here is what it does. there is 7 million people in

arizona that are all part of this response. we're all responding to this epidemic personally and professionally and it's been really hard and we're entitled to see the kind of information our policy makers are using to make decisions on our behalf and we can't even look at the model? that doesn't -- it's astonishing like i said in the blog post. >> will humble, executive director of the arizona public health association and department of health services. mr. humble, thanks for helping us understand this. there is a lot of sort of unknowns and black boxes in this story. if they start to fill in and you can see it, you can see the explanations in arizona before nationally, will you call us and we'll get you back on here? >> sure, thank you. >> great. we will be right back. stay with us. >> great we will be right back. stay with us s of them. that's why centrum contains 14 key nutrients to help feed your cells, nourishing your body inside and out so you can focus on what matters most. centrum. feed your cells. fuel your life.

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last night america's collective heart wept into our collective throat with the announcement from the u.s. supreme court that justice ruth

gat gate beginni beginni ginsgurg was put in the hospital. she's been discharged from the hospital and doing well and glad to be home. the justice will return to the john hopkins hospital in baltimore, maryland for follow up outpatient visits over the next few weeks to eventually remove the gull stone non-surgically. justice ginsburg is 87 years young and survived pancreatic cancer and lung cancer despite her hospital visit yesterday and today, she participated in the court's teleconference oral arguments every single day this week. perfect attendance. god bless her. seriously. god bless and keep her. please. that does it for us tonight. we'll see you again tomorrow. now it's time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. >> good evening, rachel. she's just playing with us