with the u.s. death toll from coronavirus now topping 74,000, president trump is backtracking on his decision to wind down the white house task force. and around the world, more than 3.7 million people have been sickened by the virus. we'll get a live report from several hard-hit areas. also on capitol hill, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell and nancy pelosi issue a rare joint statement declining the white house's offer for coronavirus tests. but some lawmakers now say they want to be tested.

good morning, everybody. it is thursday, may 7th. i'm yasmin vossoughian. we have a lot to cover this morning. just a day after suggesting the white house coronavirus task force should start winding down, the president is now reversing course. in a series of tweets yesterday, the president said, quote, the task force will continue on indefinitely with its focus on safety and opening up our country again. we may add or subtract people to it as appropriate. the task force will be very focused on vaccines and therapeutics. here is what the president told reporters about his change of plans. >> could you explain the change you gave about winding down the task force and -- >> well, i guess if you think, we're always winding it down, but it's a question of what the endpoint is. i think it is a change a little bit. i thought we could wind it down

sooner, but i had no idea how popular the task force is until actually yesterday when i started talking about winding it down. i get calls from very respected people saying i think it would be better to keep it going. it's done such a good job. >> mr. president, on the task force, what was dr. fauci's role will be in the -- and same as it is. he's been doing a very good job. we're very happy with dr. fauci. he'll be doing the same and deborah will be doing the same. we're actually just adding some names. we may take off a couple that frankly, their expertise really no longer applies. but i think, mike, you'll announce your names monday maybe? >> yes. >> or sooner. >> so as the death toll from coronavirus nears 75,000, sources telling axios that president trump has complained to advisers about the way deaths are being calculated, suggesting the real numbers are lower and

that several senior aides do share this view. experts actually believe the death toll is higher than the official count because of inconsistent reporting and testing shortages. here is the president again. >> it is what it is. from you saying it's 70,000, it's approximately now 70,000. so do i believe them? yeah. i don't believe them for china and i don't believe them from other countries where i see, you know, a very tiny number of people died, but you're watching the news and you see what's going on. but our numbers are, you know, essentially certified numbers. they're individual hospitals. they're putting out the numbers. i don't imagine there would be a very big variation. no, it's a big number. but it's also a number that is at the lower scale. i think, deborah, you could say it's at the very lower scale of any number that was predicted. because if you look at the predictions, i guess they said from 100 to 220,000, that's if we did the big shut-ins and if

we went to the total shutdown. and now it's time to open up our country. >> let's be clear, we are at 75,000 deaths. let's not forget that number because it is a staggering number and we're not even into the summer yet. so when asked about reopening, the president said the american people have to be warriors. >> will the nation just have to accept the idea that by reopening, there will be more cases, there will be more deaths? >> so i called these people warriors. and i'm actually calling now, as you know, john, the nation warriors. we can't keep our country closed down for years. and we have to do something. >> and here is the white house press secretary giving her take on what the president actually meant. >> you used the phrase, warrior toes describe everyday americans and the president is using that

phrase, as well. what is the thinking behind using that description and is that basically asking americans to put themselves in harm's way? >> not in the slightest. it's actually the opposite. the president has been clear that we're at a wartime moment where we're fighting the invisible enemy. by that, i mean covid-19. on the contrary, the notion the american people are warriors, they're warriors because they stayed home. they're warriors because this mitigation effort is something that could only be done by the american people coming together and making hard sacrifices and the american public has done that. and we salute each of you around the country that have listened to these guys lines. it's because of you that we're at this place where we can reopen the country. >> so the number of recorded cases worldwide is over 3.7 million resulting in over 264,000 deaths. but in the fight against covid-19, some countries are turning a corner. and germany, chancellor angela

merkel says that the country can, quote, afford a little audacity in reopening its economy and society with some businesses and schools resuming. in new zealand, prime minister arden announced the country is halfway down everest with the plans to open up playgrounds, libraries, bars within a week. domestic gatherings of up to 100 people could be allowed to resume. in south korea, children are expected to return to school on monday in hong kong. there are plans to reopen schools, cinemas, bars and beauty parlors tomorrow. let's get into this. joining me now, janice mackey fair for us live in beijing. nbc news corespondent matt bradley and in london willem marx joining us. talk us through where we are currently in beijing, janet. >> every day, there seems to be

more signs of life. i look out on to the street here, there's more traffic every day. signs that people are returning to work. that the economy is buying revived, but there are still a lot of measures in place here to ensure there is no second wave of infection. we still have about 200 million kids who have not returned to school. there are still sections of cities that are closed off, even as our tourists sites have opened. even to buy a ticket, you need to produce that health code in your phone. that is your golden passport to do anything here. as we see signs of the country coming back on track, china's government is now doubling down on politics. and this spat that has been ramting up over the past week

with the u.s. that the coronavirus was linked to the lab in wuhan, this is the theory being peddled by the trump administration particularly secretary of state mike pompeo. china's government has come out saying the u.s. is on a smear campaign against china to bolster mr. trump's chances of election. and even intelligence shared among the five eyes network with the uk, australia, new zealand and canada, it suggests that -- it contradicts this assertion by the trump administration that the virus is linked to the lab in wuhan. why this matters, this flurry of conspiracy theories and accusations, even though there is a lot that we don't know about the pandemic and how it spread is that it's a sign that china is trying to fend off blame in every direction as these calls for investigations, inquiries and compensation are growing even louder.

now for more on what is happening in italy, let's go to matt bradley in rome. >> thanks, janice. i've been here for four days now with my crew in italy. there's quite a light, buoyant feeling in this city that we haven't felt since we got here more than eight weeks ago. it's beautiful seeing romans walking around in the park, taking advantage of this lifting of the lockdown. in many ways, this lockdown is lifting in name only. almost all businesses, restaurants, cafes, bars, museums, libraries, schools, they're all still closed. so when we talk about phase two, it is such a minor shift. we're not going to see retail shops opening until may 18th. we're not going to see the restaurants, bars and cafes opening until june 1st. that's when we're going to see italy coming back and trying to look a little bit more like italy. .but in the meantime, nobody

everybody is happy. some of the shop owners that we spoke with yesterday were saying that they're frustrated. they want to see what kind of relief the government is going to offer them, when they're really going to be able to open their doors, sell their wares and start making money. even those businesses who can reopen say they can't recoup their losses by opening businesses. there are no tourists, there are no businesses, people are office workers around to buy the take-out orders that are suddenly available for purchasing. so they're worried about the economy now that the virus seems to be going away. so for more, my colleague, willem marx in london. >> thanks, matt. here in the uk, we had boris johnson, the prime minister, struggling to answer questions in parliament yesterday about the country's testing capacity. those are numbers that have been under renewed focus here.

but the economy here, according to the bank of england this morning is going to shrink by a third over the first half of this year. we've seen business investment fall off by half, according to the report out this morning from the bank, and massive, massive drops in house hold spending and company sales. in terms of what's going to happen next, we're expecting to hear on sunday the latest details when it comes to the easing of lockdown measures here. but meanwhile, in brazil, where i have been talking about the lack of clarity in lockdown measures, they're saying the behavior of the president there is contributing to a massive spike that's continuing. we've had more than 650 deaths reported there yesterday. 8.500 total. they've been digging 800 graves a day for the last couple of weeks. doctors i'm talking to, intense i have care specialists are saying their wards are completely overwhelmed, yasmin. >> those images are incredible

to see. thank you to you all. this virus affecting every part of this world right now. nbc's janice mackey fair, matt bradley and willem marx, thank you. still ahead, the supreme court makes history with oral arguments over the phones. plus, lawmakers on both sides of the aisle are voicing frustration over president trump preventing dr. fauci from testifying. those stories plus a check on your weather when we come back. your weather when we come back

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welcome back, everybody. the supreme court heard arguments over the phone. >> we'll hear argument this morning in case 1946, united states patent and trademark office versus booking.com.

>> so began the historic first for the court which continued hearing arguments yesterday with a case on what kind of robo calls can be made to cell phones, if anything. a law that banned such calls but gave the u.s. government an exception for collecting deaths faced a first amendment challenge in barr versus the american association of political arguments. arguments in a case with implications for the political season were marked by another court first. what the fcc has said is when the subject matter of the call ranges to the topics, then the call is transformed and it's a call that would have been allowed and it's no longer allowed. >> so that was the sound of a toilet flushing. of course, there were some immediate jokes on twitter about the lack of decorum, but nobody on the call commented. joining me now, nbc legal

analyst danny sa volucevallos. i'm hear you vnts done that to us, danny. the problem here is we can actually see each other. >> you actually don't know where i'm sitting as you watch me here. >> i do not know where you are sitting. but that is a first. i think there's a lot of firsts right now when it comes to us living amid this pandemic, as we well know. that was one of them. but i do want to get to the actual case here, not get sidelined by the toilet flushing, although united states like to talk about it more. is the government here with regard to this case trying to keep us all from getting hit with just a ton of political robo calls on our cell phones in the upcoming months, as we well know happens in an election year? what is at the heart of this case, danny? >> both sides in this case are fighting for the right to annoy us on our cell phones. and by that, i mean the government is fighting for an exception to a law that says

basically no robo calls, except when we want to collects debts that are backed by the federal government. then we, the federal government, are totally fine with robo calls. the consultants, on the other hand, want to strike down the entire law so they can send us millions of politically based robo calls. and they're arguing the description, because it discriminates against the content of the speech, does not survive the strict scrutiny test of the court and it must be struck down. >> what is your prediction as to where this goes? because i would really not like to get consistent robo calls over the next eight months or so. >> this may be one of those cases where even lawyers and judges have to root for the nonlegal conclusion in this case, which is no matter what the law is, if this law is struck down, it could mean thousands if not millions of robo calls not just from political consultants and the federal government, but everyone.

and that is one of the key issues, whether or not the court should just receiver out the federal government's exception, which would be the best for us consumers, it would mean no robo calls at all. but if they strike down the rest of the entire statute, then it's open season on us and our cell phones. >> all right, danny cevallos, thank you as always and always appreciate you keeping it formal on these hits that we do with one another every morning. thank you, danny. still ahead, the president is pushing for schools to reopen, but suggests certain teachers stay home. his new comments on that, coming up next. his new comments on that, coming up next.

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teachers over the age of 60 years old. >> mr. president, you say you would like to see schools open and teachers not -- >> i would like to see schools open wherever possible, which i think is in much of the country, most of the country. no, i would say that until everything is perfect, i think teachers over a certain age, perhaps you say over 60, especially if they have a problem with heart or diabetes or any one of a number of things, i think they should not be teaching school for a while and everybody would understand that fully. that we understand. >> let's take a turn now and bring in nbc meteorologist bill karins who is standing by for us. good morning, bill. great to see you this morning. >> good morning. >> talk to us about the numbers as you're tracking them. >> the teachers union -- >> i know. you always need to be cautious about the teachers union because, obviously, they have

the mind of the teachers -- teachers are top of mind for them as always. >> yeah. so let me get into these numbers for you,a yasmin. we're slowly decreasing from this plateau that was about 30,000 new daily cases in april. so far in may, we're averaging around 25,000. when you do the math on that, our fatality rate is about 6%. so every single day like yesterday where we had 25,000 new cases, eventually that means 1,500 of those people will lose their battle with this disease. so just because the number is decreasing a little bit, that still means in a couple of weeks from now we're still going to have these horrific fatality numbers. we had a dip in testing yesterday. in the last four days, we had about 1 million american tests come back and right now we're about 7.8 million, about 2.3% of the population. today we'll go over 8 million.

that's roughly the population of new york city. that is what we've done so far to this point is the equivalent of testeding everyone in new york city for the whole country. let's get into the weather map. 6 million people are at risk for severe storms today. that will be late this evening. it looked like this storm system won't really have those severe storms until 7:00 to 10:00 p.m. and then this whole storm system heads to the east. we talked about this yesterday. a lot of rain for areas like the tennessee valley. for friday, it looks like rain is polled in the northeast. for friday night, we're still looking at that snow, yasmin. here is your snowfall forecast map. i can't believe i'm doing this for mother's day weekend. northern portions of new england will be shoveling and the leaves are on the trees. we could be dealing with power outages. >> wow. >> i know. ugly. >> that is not good. thank you, bill. appreciate it. still ahead, it was a testy

response to one health care worker in the oval office. president trump contradicted a nurse who said some parts of the country are still experience ago shortage of protective gear. that exchange is coming up. also, an update on the health of supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg after she was admitted to the hospital this week. we're back in a moment. e hospitl this week. we're back in a moment foods; you're constantly weakening that enamel structure. pronamel repair allows more minerals to penetrate deep into the enamel layer and it repairs it. it is pretty phenomenal. but if you look to the land, it's a whole different story. from farms to backyards, wheels are turning. seeds are being planted. animals are getting fed. and grass is growing. and families are giving their all to the soil because no matter how uncertain things get, the land never stops. so to all those linked to the land, we say thank you.

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featuring the emmy award-winning voice remote. access to your favorite apps, including netflix, prime video, youtube and hulu. all without changing passwords and inputs. the most 4k content and movies and shows on any screen. the best entertainment experience all in one place. welcome back, everybody. i'm yasmin vossoughian. we're going to begin this half hour with division among

lawmakers over how to return to capitol hill safely amid the covid-19 pandemic. ing several senators on both sides of the aisle are urging congress to accept a white house offer of rapid covid-19 tests to prevent spreading the disease. on saturday, nancy pelosi and mitch mcconnell issued a rare joint statement declining the offer, saying those tests are needed for front line workers fighting the virus. a lot are urging top lawmakers to rethink that decision or find another way to deploy testing for lawmakers. despite the emphasis on the need for testing here in the united states, the white house secretary dismissed that notion, calling it a, quote, myth. >> why shouldn't all americans who go back to work be able to get a test before they do to

feel comfortable in their own work environment to be able to interacting with other individuals? >> let's dismiss a myth about tests right now. if we tested every single american in this country at this moment, we would have to retest them an hour later and an hour later after that because at any moment, you could theoretically contract this virus. so the notion that everyone needs to be tested is simply nonsensical. so during an event honoring nurses at the white house yesterday, president trump contradicted a nurse practitioner who described her access, her own access to personal protective equipment as, quote, sporadic. >> you are seeing now that the supplies are what they need to be? >> yeah. >> yes. >> i think it's sporadic. i talk to my colleagues around the country, certainly there are pockets of area where ppe is not ideal. but this is an unprecedented time.

i've been reusing my n95 mask for a few weeks now. i just broke out a new one to come here in case i needed to wear it. so ppe has been sporadic, but it's been manageable. and we do what we have to do. we're nurses and he we learn to adapt and do whatever the best thing we can do for our patients to get the job done and get the care provided. that's what we're going to continue to do as covid-19 continues. >> sporadic for you, but not sporadic for a lot of other people. >> oh, no, mr. president. >> because i've heard the opposite. i've heard that they are loaded up with gowns now. initially, we had empty subboards, we had empty shelves, we had nothing because it wasn't put there by the last administration. and i've heard that we have -- i just saw it yesterday where they're making millions of masks a month in a factory from

arizona. that is great. we have other factories being built now for masks. for the most part, that was fine, but i've heard we have tremendous supply to almost all places. tremendous supply. to a point where we're going to start having some of our supply go to other countries which need it very badly. >> i'm going to go with the front line worker, the nurse practitioner who said that access to ppe is sporadic because she's seeing it firsthand and talking to her colleagues that are also seeing it firsthand. so while meeting at the oval office with iowa governor kim reynolds yesterday, the president made an unsolicited statement on the whistle-blower complaint of former top health and human services official dr. rick bright. watch this. >> i never met dr. bright. i don't know who he is. i didn't hear good things about him. i did not hear good things about him at all. is and to me, he seems like a

disgruntled employee that is trying to help the democrats win an election by getting out. he has a pretaped sermon about, you know what he thinks and i can tell you they didn't think he did a particularly good job, as i understand it. now, i just got in this morning because i'm saying, who is this guy? but i never met him, i know nothing about him, but he's a disgruntled guy and i don't think disgruntled people should be working for a certain administration. >> so the former director of the biomedical advanced research and development authority, dr. bright, has accused the administration of placing political considerations over the safety of the american people and removing him for pushing back on that. let's get into this a bit and get some clarity on all of it. anna, good morning to you. thanks so much for joining us on your debut on "morning joe's" first look. so we always appreciate people

getting up early for us. let's talk about dr. bright here. that was the whistle-blower mentioned by the president. you wrote a recent piece on his removal. what more can you tell us about why exactly he was pushed out? >> the complaint dr. bright filed was very long. he details many instances where he says he clashed with his superiors at the department of health and human services, a lot of times over contracts that he feels were given out more for political reasons than for actual scientific reasons. the sort of -- the issue that was the last straw that seems to have gotten him demoted to a position at the national institutes of health is over this drug that president trump had usupushed called

hydroxychloroquine that trump thought could be used for covid-19. dr. bright disagreed and thought they could be potentially dangerous drugs. >> let's expand on that a little bit. before i do, the president mentioned he spoke to some of his colleagues and felt he wasn't highly regarded. what does your reporting indicate as to how he was seen or viewed? >> i think, you know, there are two camps. there are those who he often had disagreements with who did not think that he was doing a great job, you know, that thought that he was maybe too pushy for certain funding for his agency and things like that. then there are others who were working with him to try to push back on some of these contracts who would probably say something different. >> let's talk quickly about

hydro hydroxychloroquine. there has been some negative results coming from testing phases with regard to hydroxychloroquine. have there been any advancements from what you have seen and what you've been following? >> so there have been some observational analysis showing that it doesn't help and may harm people. we're still waiting to see results from actual clinical trials which could come later this month. but the food and drug administration has put out a warning just a couple weeks ago on hydroxychloroquine and the potential of heart risks associated with it. and so, you know, even though trump mentioned this many, many times, people aren't really taking it any more given that warning. >> yeah. that is a fair way, i guess, of saying that he mentioned it many, many times, anna. i would go so far as to say he was pushing it on the american

public to try and get their hands on hydroxychloroquine. bloomberg's anna edny, thank you very much. good to talk to you this morning. appreciate it. so the supreme court announced yesterday that ruth bader begins fweginsburg was rem the hospital after being treated for gal stones. she underwent treatment for a benign gallbladder infection. she underwent surgery in late 2018 for lung cancer, as well. the 87-year-old justice, according to a spokesman, is doing well and is glad to be home. she is set to return to the hospital for follow-up outpatient visits for a few weeks to eventually remove the gal stone. still ahead, what house leaders are saying after being forced to hold a hearing on the coronavirus response without any key officials to testify. your first look at "morning joe"

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always go for 100. bring out the bold™ welcome back, everybody. the trump administration of barring of dr. fauci's testimony yesterday is bringing rebuke. here is what the top two leaders of the house appropriations labor and health subcommittee had to say. >> he has testified hundreds of times on capitol hill working with democratic and republican presidents. yet now the white house said no. there will be no doubt that he's just frightened of oversight. >> i want the report to show i joined the chairman urging that dr. fauci be allowed to testify here. i think it would have been good testimony useful to this committee i think useful to this

country. >> so after the president dubbed yesterday's house hearing as filled with, quote, trump haters, the white house press secretary blamed democrats for creating a publicity stunt surrounding dr. fauci's blocked testimony and acknowledged his senate appearance scheduled for next week. >> it's important to note that dr. fauci will be testifying before the senate, which means he will be fielding questions from both democrats and republicans. the house, however, and specifically chair woman nita allowy's committee did not act in good faith. >> let's be clear, throw, a republican-held senate, not a democratically held house, so let's be clear on that. with that, let's take a turn once again and get a check on your weather with nbc meteorologist bill karins examine also tracking that curve for us as you always do on these numbers. where are we today? >> we just finished up a 48-hour

period with almost 5,000 new deaths in this country. so here is where we're sitting now, a little over 74,000. it only took two weeks to go from 50,000 to roughly 75,000. and with the number of new cases not dropping that quickly, i can't see how we don't hit 100,000 by memorial day, if not sooner. and wednesday, by the way, was the fifth deadliest day we've had yet with 2,528 fatalities, again, almost 5,000 in the last two days alone. as far as the new cases went, we had about 25,000. if you want a silver lining on this, that was the lowest wednesday total since march. again, it's slowly going down, the new cases. not quickly enough. let's get to that forecast. no one is going to like me for this, either. some freezing low temperatures. if you're in that blue and you have plants outside, you need to protect them this weekend. that includes 75 million people with this rare late season arctic blast that's coming down. saturday morning will be the

coldest. windchills will be in the low 20s. the temperatures as far south as west virginia and virginia will be below freezing. even atlanta will feel like it's in the 30s. that's crazy for this time of year. and sunday will be cold, too. so as far as the forecast goes for your mother's day weekend, here is how it's going to go. friday, we watch that storm with the rain. we will get snow during the day friday. western new york, western pa, friday night we'll get that snow picking up through the northeast and into new england. you'll be shoveling in the higher terrain of vermont, new hampshire, maine and even up through the adirondacks. mother's day, we get rid of that storm in the northeast, chilly through the mid-atlantic, but at least it won't be wet. the worst forecast, by far, will be florida. we could get drenched, the heavy rain for our friends in miami, tampa and up through orlando. those fatality numbers, that's the problem, ear not dropping the new cases fast enough. >> yeah. you know, i just hope we never become numb to the huge loss of

life that we have seen in this country over the last eight weeks or so because we talk about these numbers every day. and every single number is a person, it is a family, it is a mother, a father, a sister, a brother. 75,000, bill, americans lost over eight weeks. that is unprecedented and unbelieverble a unbelievable. so i hope we understand the huge loss we have in this country right now and the mistakes that were made along the way and the things that could have been done to prevent that loss of life. still ahead, everybody, we're going to go live to cnbc for an early look at what is driving the day on wall street. back in a moment. reet back in a moment (j.k. vo) if you're off the roads for all of us,

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welcome back, everybody. over 30 million americans have lost their jobs in six weeks and that harrowing number is only expected to continue to grow.

cnbc's juliana tadlebaum is joining us live on this. what are we expecting from this week's jobs report? >> good morning, yasmin. another grim report expected tonight jobless claims front today. economists are expecting 3 million more americans filed for unemployment insurance in the week ending may 2nd. the relative good news is this would mark the fifth report in a row to show a decline in americans filing for unemployment. last week, it was 3.8 million. for context, before coronavirus, the worst week for job losses racked up to 665,000. we're talking about a substantial increase to anything we've seen in the past. avoverseas in europe, we ar facing what could be the worst recession ever. the european commission gave their new forecast for the european economy yesterday. they are expecting a more than 7% collapse in economic activity this year. before the pandemic hit, the

commission was expecting europe to grow by 1.2%. during the global financial crisis, the european economy contracted 4.5%. a significantly worse situation than anything we've seen before. they expect the recovery to start to take hold in the second half of the year, but it'll be uneven across different regions in europe. back to you. >> so we know the trump administration has made a turn now, accusing china of lying about the pandemic. the u.s. now pondering new drastic economic measures because of that against china. what can you tell us about what's actually being considered here? >> so washington is considering stepping up curbs to supply chains and investment flows, but it remains to be seen how far they're willing to go. right now, it is all rhetoric. definitely an area we need to watch between washington and beijing in the coming weeks. >> cnbc's julianna tatelbaum,

live from london. thank you so much. great to see you this morning. up next, axios' one big thing. coming up on "morning joe," we're going to speak with several leading health experts about where the country stands as states move forward with plans to reopen. also, will americans shrug off coronavirus deaths as we do with gun violence deaths? that conversation is ahead. "morning joe" is moments away. f. and if you're on the roads for us, well, we're here for you, too. get the perfectly grilled flavors of an outdoor grill indoors, and because it's a ninja foodi, it can do even more, like transform into an air fryer. the ninja foodi grill, the grill that sears, sizzles, and air fry crisps. you're constantly weakening that enamel structure.

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including netflix, prime video, youtube and hulu. all without changing passwords and inputs. the most 4k content and movies and shows on any screen. the best entertainment experience all in one place. welcome back, everybody. joining me now with a look at axios am, national political reporter for axios, jonathan swan. jonathan, good morning to you. great to see you today. >> you, too. >> talk to us about axios one big thing. >> president trump has been complaining to advisors about the way the death count has been calculated. he thinks it is being inflated. some of his senior advisors agree with him. this is basically something that is being discussed privately but

may bleed out publicly. that's why we're trying to get into their thinking right now. the reality is, experts say, to the extent we're not counting deaths accurately, it is likely to be an undercount, not an overcount, because there is excess death across the country. president trump has seized on two things in these conversations, and so have advisors. number one, the changing in -- because there wasn't adequate testing, there was a changing in the way they counted these deaths in mid-april, where they started to count probable deaths. the second is because of incentives, this is the way the trump -- some of the trump advisors describe it -- financial incentives, this is basically medicare assistance for counting covid deaths. they're trying to allege what would be fraud, again, which we've seen no evidence of.

this is two things they're seizing on. >> wait, wait, wait. this is astounding to me. in a sense, the trump administration and the people surrounding him are alleging there is a possible overcount because people want money? >> yes. >> because if they count more deaths, then you get more money? >> correct. >> that's unbelievable to me, considering what you brought up. when you have experts and scientists all across the board saying it is very likely the deaths we're reporting today, which is at 75,000, is being undercounted because of the lack of testing in this country. >> yeah. i should say, this is not a uniform view, but it's substantial enough that it is worth reporting. there's a number of his advisors that share this view. you know, it is something that i expect, as the death count

continues to mount, as we get close to 100,000, that we may start to see it bleed out into the public commentary. let's also talk about your reporting with regards to how this pandemic has been tearing the nation apart. what do you think the main cause, and what do you think the effects are that can be seen from this? >> it is shocking. far from being the unifying force that other catastrophes have been for this country, the covid-19 pandemic is bringing americans further apart. thanks to pre-existing political economic divisions, and the tech and media bubbles that allow us to choose our own reality, we're seeing just pretty striking polling. i want to bet the numbers right. we talked before about death a statist

statistics. axi axi axios poll released monday, most americans surveyed doubted one of the most fundamental facts, the death toll. whether they believe the reported deaths were too low or too high depended whether they were democrats or republicans. we saw a pew survey yesterday which found two-thirds of republicans thaug republicans thought the media was exaggerating the risks of covid, compared to three in ten democrats. you have stark divisions in the way the states are handling it. you have red states which are opening earlier and, you know, some of the protest that is you see and the energy there. you have blue states, particularly new york, which are still very much in shelter in place with a population that, you know, couldn't feel further from some of the sentiment you're seeing in these other states. >> you can't help but wonder who these individuals are actually listening to, right? are they listening to the governors in their state? are they listening to the president?

are they listening to the dr. birxs of the world and the dr. faucis of the world? if they're listening to the president, you assume they think that the media is over-selling this whole thing, right? if they're listening to their local governors and listening to the dr. faucis of the world, they understand the risks of the coronavirus. i think that's one of the major questions there. jonathan swan, thank you, as always. going to be reading axios am in a little bitme. sign up for the newsletter at signup.axios.com. that does it for me on this thursday morning. i'm yasmin vossoughian. "morning joe" starts right now. we've delivered millions and millions and tens of millions of masks all over. you don't hear about that anymore. you don't hear about hospital beds. when it first started, everybody was saying, hospital beds, hospital beds. i haven't heard about testing being a problem in weeks. you don't hear about ventilators and masks, and you shouldn't be hearing about testing. >> ppe has been sporadic, but it's bn