>> dr. jha, i am curious about the issue of whether it can travel in ventilation and the reason i'm asking this is it does seem as the hot spots have all one thing in common, a lot of people packed in, whether we are talking a senior facility, meat packing plants, prisons, but no matter how much you quarantine these folks it still gets to them. we have seen there really is no way of protecting these -- do we think it's traveling through ♪ ventilation? i know we have had some studies on that. what do we know? >> yeah, so first of all, i do good afternoon, i'm chuck think there is a way to protect todd, here are the facts as we these folks so i don't think its know them this hour. hopeless and i can talk more moments ago white house press about that in a second, but there is some evidence that it secretary caley mcen thenny just travels in ventilation, there's studies from china that shows it wrapped up a press briefing this might travel through air as another white house staffer conditioning, the previous sars has tested positive for virus from 2003 there was coronavirus. this time it's a member of vice president mike pence's staff, evidence that it traveled the news coming one day after through air conditioning systems and through vents and air. president trump's personal valet so i do think that's a real tested positive for the concern and we have to figure

coronavirus. out how to mitigate that. the president confirmed today that some white house staff will in terms of how we protect now start wearing masks. people in nursing homes, meat packing plants, you know, what the u.s. lost more than 20 we need is a really rigorous million jobs in the month of april as the country remained testing program. anybody who is in a nursing under lockdown. that's the biggest loss since home, any worker, any visitor, all the people who live there the great depression, since need to be tested on an ongoing we've been keeping these records. basis that's how you protect the unemployment rate is now a those folks. we haven't done that because we staggering 14.7%. don't have testing or not enough testing and that's why we jcpenney is the latest continue to see the massive outbreaks in these places that retail chain to announce that are killing unfortunately a lot of people. >> all right. they are preparing to file for very quickly, can this be bankruptcy protection as early as next week. according to reuters the formers sexually transmitted? there is a chinese study that maybe it can be? retail giant would be following >> yeah, so i'm pretty skeptical suit with similar filings from of that study. earlier this week of nieman mark again, i'm not skeptical of what they found, but they are very does and j. crew. for what it's worth jc pen kree sick patients, some virus in the was struggling before this pandemic just like those other seemen, probably worth holding two retail outlets as well, i on for sexual activity for 14 think. as we've listen saying, if you days after you recover but i don't think it's going to be a were fragile going into this major mode of transmission. thing you may be in a worse >> all right. shape now. joining me is my co-anchor for dr. jha with harvard, thanks for the next two hours, katy tur. coming on, answering some of our basic questions and providing we knew this day was coming with your expertise to our audience.

the unemployment report. >> always happy to. >> katy, over to you. it's here and yet it undersells chuck, i would imagine if you are having intercourse, though, you would be pretty close to the person regardless. how devastating this is. it is a reminder, sadly, that moving on. still ahead, what more could this number as high as it is, as congress do to help families record breaking as it is, will struggling right now? probably be a record for just we're going to ask independent senator angus king about that one month. >> absolutely. and the state of the economy the number that we got in april coming up next. you're watching msnbc. coming up next you're watching msnbc. to america's frontline responders, thank you. undercounts the number of unemployed there actually are because there are still so many people, chuck, out there who are trying to get through on those unemployment insurance lines to file for unemployment insurance and, remember, with the weekly jobs numbers we are up to over 33 million. the crisis is still unfolding in front of us and it's not quite clear where the bottom is going to be. can i just update us on a little bit of more news about the vice president's -- the member of his staff that tested positive for covid-19. >> yeah. >> i just want to say something about this. it seems -- and we have talked about this over and over again, chuck, the optics of how the

white house has dealt with it, crowding on the platform, having no people wear masks, although that seems to be that they're changing this. i'm just so surprised by it every single day because when you consider the measures taken to protect the president from a threat, he lives in a house guarded by gates and snipers on the roof, there areozens if not hundreds of secret service members guarding him every day, he travels in a car that is blast-proof and yet it doesn't seem like the whau has taken the threat of this virus as seriously as other threats. when this is something that could very possibly kill him if he contracted it. it's just not clear how it might affect his system. he is the president of the united states, why are they reacted to instead of preparing for the possibility that this virus might infect the white house. >> it does come across as a bit cavalier, but, look, we brought up the two biggest stories we're dealing with right now and let's stick with them for a few minutes. as we've been talking about

here, katy and i, the white house held its first press briefing since both of those two pieces of bombshell news dropped this morning, those two coronavirus cases inside the west wing and the release of tide cleaners is offering free laundry services that devastating april jobs to the family of frontline responders. report. hans nichols joins us from the visit hope.tidecleaners.com to learn more. white house with the latest. hans, correct me if i'm wrong, but did she really begin her press briefing today not with the jobs report but with the fbi -- >> correct, i think she wanted to talk about michael flynn just as i'm going to have to talk up loudly because he have the leaf blower making a pass at us here. the white house is using these briefings and trying to establish what they want the rhythm to be. what you heard there talking about the whole michael flynn issues clearly that's where they wanted the focus to be. they did send out economic officials earlier in the morning as soon as they are actually allowed torques an hour after the jobs report comes out, you heard from mr. kudlow, larry

kudlow as well as kevin hassett. both were strongly suggesting a case point that this is going to get worse before it gets better and in may and even june could have disastrous numbers. they are really starting to push out on when they think the economy is going to snap back. so the rhetoric seems to shift ever so slightly towards the back half of the third quarter, that's leading right up into the president's election and that you won't see the recovery until the fourth quarter or 2021 which is after the election. >> and that seems to be -- seems to be it's the calendar that's driving these decisions and not the virus, but once again, the virus does seem to be the dominant -- usually wins here if you are trying to fight the virus without a vaccine. hans nichols getting us started. katy, over to you. >> there is not an agreement that all of the jobs that have been lost, chuck, are going to bounce right back. let's turn now to california, one of the states that's been hit hardest by the economic crisis, the golden state has today senators kamala already borrowed $350 million in

harris, ed markey and bernie sanders introduced a monthly federal money in order to keep paying unemployment. economic crisis support act, it would send a monthly check to 3.7 million californians are now individuals and families making out of work since march. less than $120,000 until the joining us now is nbc's joe jo coronavirus pandemic subsides. that is just the latest plan floating around the capitol. for more on the federal kent from universal city, government's response to the california. what are the expectations on worst economic numbers since the whether those jobs are going to great depression we're joined by be there, still exist in a month, two months, three months independent senator from maine when we are able to reopen the angus king. senator, always great to have entire country? you. these numbers were awful today and when i talked to people >> reporter: katy, it's all about two things, it's about across the country, mostly whether or not the jobs will actually be there and then around the new york city area and outside the outskirts they whether or not customers, shoppers, consumers have the will tell me that the stimulus consumer confidence to return to checks were a good start, they will say the sba loans are a spend money because this is the first time we have seen in a good idea but they haven't quite worked the way that they need pandemic that the loss leader them to. here is the retail industry -- what is congress planning on doing next and how quickly do excuse me, the hospitality you guys need to act? industry. you saw in the jobs report 7.7 >> well, we ought to act soon million jobs lost in and we've been here for a week hospitality, right? now and done nothing in terms of that's a decrease by nearly 50% the covid response and i think

of that entire sector. that's a failing and apparently that is massive. and then if you take a look at next week there's nothing scheduled, either. there may be some discussions the breakdown, you also see a going on, there are discussions going on in the background. major job losses in education people are trying to put and construction, professional together what the next package business services here. should look like. one of the things, katy, that is and we also want to highlight something else. one thing that's pretty very important and somewhat contentious is help to the remarkable about every jobs report as i've covered them over states and we talk about the states as if it's some kind of the years is if you read all of the different tables you get big amorphous shape, but some very valuable information, actually it's people and most including on veteran states the money flows back to unemployment specifically here, communities so we're talking if katie. we took a look at it and now the states don't get help, we're veteran unemployment across the talking about layoffs and we're board is 12% here in the u.s. talking about layoffs of people like teachers and first that is six times what it was responders and people that are last year at this time. you have more than a million processing unemployment claims. i mean, it makes no sense. veterans who have applied for so that should be a part of the unemployment for those jobless claims that we've been covering next package. and if you take a look at women also some additional focus on veterans specifically, their testing. jobless rate, their unemployment katy, the numbers today are rate, is 14%. awful and the economic impact is you take that with the context awful. that this jobs report is the problem is it's going to underestimating the current continue to be awful until we realities of our economy right deal with this underlying health now and that's extremely problem.

painful. the best way to deal with that, another important number to look short of a vaccine or a cure, is at is people of color and their absolutely a massive increase in unemployment rates here. you see asian americans 14.5%, testing and for some reason the administration is resisting black americans 16.7, hispanic doing that. they've increased testing community 19% and if you dig somewhat with great pride they said last week it was 300,000 a even deeper into the report and take a look at why that's the day. it ought to be in the range of 2 to 3 million a day. case an economist i just talked so we're still off by a major to told me that a lot of these jobs in these communities are factor and until that starts to being lost because of education, happen all of the economic a distinct disadvantage from the things that we are talking about are just pasting it over. outset, and if you look at the what really bothers me is we had population with no college sort of a contract with the education, the employment rate administration, if you will. for that group is below 50%. the american people held up their end of the deal. so if you want jobs to come back we shut down. we took time off. and you're leading with all of we self-isolated. these retail and service sector we did all those things, but for jobs getting cut the most, i two months we haven't had a mean, that's really where the consistent plan, the only thing pain point is and that is the intersection of this giant consistent about the plan is catastrophe that we are in right it's inconsistent and we haven't now. had this expansion of testing >> and just so much uncertainty surrounding those jobs in the which everybody says is critical in order to bring this thing future, jo ling kent, thank you under control. so, yes, we're talking about

more, but a lot of the activity very much. this is round one, this is going to be sadly cascading. should be taking place at the among the millions of these april job losses that were white house and then i just read reported about 18 million of them were deemed temporary the cdc guidelines that were layoffs. okay. that could be good news, right? killed, somebody said that was that's how they would quickly be too prescriptive. whoever said that didn't know brought back, but economists what prescriptive meant. warn there is a risk that those prescriptive means they were jobs might not come back quickly rules. they weren't rules, they were or at all. recommendations, well written, so what happens to the economy if those temporary layoffs thoughtful, and this become permanent. administration is denying people joining are the chief economist advice about what the best at grant thornton, diane swank. practices are. i want to play something the >> the issue with the federal -- president said earlier today because it is -- he is voicing i don't know at what point that you sit there -- >> you look like you don't know what some, i would say, overly where to start, chuck. optimistic economists are saying >> right. about all of these temporary well, because i don't know what you guys can do, what any more layoffs. take a listen to what he said you can do to motivate the this morning. federal government to take over >> i created, as president, we testing. so i want to set that aside had the strongest economy in the because i don't know -- everybody has said and done history of the world, the everything possible to say, mr. strongest economy we've ever had president, you guys have to own and we had to close it which is testing and they have made the decision to do it the way they've done it. artificial. we artificially closed it. let's move to the economic those jobs will all be back and prescriptions. they will be back very soon and >> right. >> what is the best way to

next year we are going to have a handle this? phenomenal year. is it the aid to the states, people are ready to go. we have to get it open. people -- and safely. people are ready to go. industry by industry or is it taking over payrolls essentially? >> i think we all would like to where is your head on this? be as enthusiastic and as >> well, i'm listening and optimistic as that. is there any part of that that's interestingly you know there are people in other countries that reality according to this jobs have gone to the sort of direct report? >> well, the biggest problem is payroll support. interestingly josh holly it wasn't because of just the closing of the economy. republican senator from missouri is talking about that and you the economy pulled back because of the virus before we ever shut rarely hear bernie sanders and one school or closed one state josh holly used in the same down and that's really important sentence, but i think that's something we have to think in the largest losses we are n the leisure and hospitality about. but all of these things are sector back in march before we did any of this said the tiding us over kind of things behavioral response of consumers and they need to be done and the to the virus and to the threat of contagion was fairly c.a.r.e.s. act and the aid to the businesses, the ppp, significant before we ever got to this, which gets to the part unemployment insurance, all that this is first and foremost those things were and are a health crisis that doesn't go critically important, but it away and there is no field of mt just makes me mad at hell that we're doing these things in the or build it they will not meantime not doing the things that could actually get us out necessarily come. i think that's very important to of this mess. remember. >> all right. a lot of the temporary losses, >> which is to deal with the the furloughs out there are in health care part. the hardest hit industries and

>> very quickly you're somebody, yes, you caucus with the travel and leisure and tourism democrats but you break your that are going to be the hardest to come back and in a world with back trying to have relationships with republican social distancing through the senators. summer and into the fall many of can a group of them -- i mean, these companies cannot ramp up lamar alexander is one of the into any kind of a percentage of few who publicly has been saying economic activity or the number testing, testing, testing, this is the only answer to any of of workers they once had, many this is testing. can a group of republican restaurants can't afford to senators go over to the president and say, enough, mr. reopen and the overhead when president. you want to reopen the economy? they are having only 25% or 50% full all the time because of take over testing. >> well, interestingly enough social distancing they can't afford the overhead of that, let just this morning about half a dozen said just that. alone the wait staff to be open. so the fear is that on the other side of it not only that the job shelley moore capito, lamar alexander, dick shelby the losses are not just temporary, they're much more permanent, but venerable chair of the also many businesses will appropriations committee said it. so hopefully this message will shutter completely on the other go through. side of this if we don't get i sent the president a letter more relief out there to leave a almost two weeks ago as a member of his reopening task force that better foundation for the says make this a manhattan economy to recover from in 2021. >> you know, diane, you used project, put joe doneford in this great line on twitter charge, give him the defense earlier this morning, you said production act and let's make the economy cannot thaw as fast this happen. so far for some reason -- i as it froze as long as the water honestly don't understand it

is covid tainted. unless they don't want to see the numbers, but they just have the point being this, if you are going to open up the economy right now in the middle of this, resisted this when everybody on the only way you are going to the planet says this is the only give people some security to go thing that we can do effectively in the meantime to reopen out is to give them confidence there is some security out there. is there any way to bring confidence with the water safely. >> you know, if he pulls it off then he gets to be a hero. tainted? that's the other part of this. >> that's a great question and of course you don't want to it is politically beneficial to drink from a poisoned till. him, too, if he would do that, i think it's really important to think about what other countries but it is what it is. senator angus king, the that have done much better on independent who caucuses from testing and tracing and the democrats from maine, thank containing the virus, been much you. katy, over to you. more strategic on shutdowns like and coming up, could military recruits with a history south korea. even there the behavioral of coronavirus be banned from response has been sort of this serving? reluctance to return to public we have the latest guidance from spaces because the risk of the pentagon. you're watching msnbc. u're watc. contagion is still very high. no so even in the best of uh uh, no way circumstances there still is this incredibly suppressed level of economic activity as the come on, no no reopening begins. manufacturing plants are easier n-n-n-no-no to reopen and keep people safe only discover has no annual fee on any card. than many other industries, south korea is a very big manufacturing country, but the service sector where this is

driving our losses is very hard to ramp up when there is still this threat out there and we've reopened before we've bent the curve in many areas which makes it even more difficult, the risk of recurrences and repeated outbreaks, let alone the real threat of a second wave of infection at the onset of the flu season in the fall makes it very difficult. add yet another layer, many large companies have already decided reopening or not they are not returning their workers back to work and so they won't be in these places or traveling and doing the kind of business they once did. >> diane, without putting you on the spot for a number to predict, it sounds like you believe this april jobs report in six months is going to look rosy compared to what's coming. >> i'm not sure that we will see a lot worse reports than this because of the extraordinary impact the closing had and we will see some bounce back due to the temporary lift in jobs from the ppp, those payroll protection plan loans which

expire in eight weeks and my fear is we will have another round of layoffs with that. my concern is really at the state and local levels that you will be adding really draconian cuts starting in july as well if we don't get transfers for the state and there's no state that isn't affected. florida and texas are some of the most at risk over the long haul, so this idea that, you know, this has gotten politicized on transfers to the states is really nonsense and we know from the great recession one of the main reasons the employment recovery was not stronger was that state and local governments were cutting when the rest of the economy was trying to ramp up. >> excellent reminder. let's hope history doesn't repeat itself on that front. diane swank, thanks very much. chuck, let's going to a state trying to figure out a phased reopening, today 24 counties in western and central pennsylvania will be moving into what governor wolf deems the yellow phase but other parts will still practice what he

calls aggressive mitigation. i'm sorry, those yellow parts. they can begin putting some people back to work, the rest of pennsylvania remains under a stay-at-home order. joining us know is msnbc's chris jansing in lahosca, pennsylvania, which remains under lockdown. there are two portions of this, one is what's the difference between yellow and red and what stops the people in the red zones from going into the yellow zones, number one? and number two, i know lawmakers we're returning $2 billion dollars are in charge of the phased to our auto policyholders through may 31st. reopening, but people are the ones that are going to decide because now, more than ever, whether it is safe for themselves to go out. being a good neighbor means everything. so what are you hearing on both like a good neighbor, state farm is there. of those angles? >> reporter: so you've asked exactly the right questions. let me set the scene for you because i'm standing at a place that addresses exactly what diane swank was just talking about, all of these small businesses wondering when will they be able to reopen, when will they be able to put their workers back on the job and will they be able to survive long

enough, because the state as you saw on that map is divided into two parts, the yellow part some of the retail can open, but here where i am in peddler's village which is 65 shops, an inn, they are not allowed to reopen. they don't know when they're going to be able to reopen and exactly as you pointed out, katie, they're concerned that folks will go to other nearby counties if indeed they feel comfortable about going out. they may even go to other states if the beaches open up in places like new jersey, will they go there instead of coming here? next weekend was supposed to be the strawberry festival, they might get 15,000 or 20,000 people that will not come now. so i was talking to one of the shop owners, steven clemente, arbery. arbery and he was telling me he spent ten years building a $2 million a year business, he has ten military recruits with a employees and i asked him what covid-19 diagnosis in their medical histories might be the last couple of weeks have been like for him. permanently barred from service. here is what he told me. but a defense official says a >> i have to tell you it's been difficult. pentagon memo saying the we are coming off of ten years diagnosis is a permanent of growth with each exponential disqualifier is interim guidance

year. last year was a record-setting and affected recruits may still year for us, our business was up be able to get a waiver. joining me now is our pentagon 19% heading into this particular and national security year. january and february got off to a great start and then all of a correspondent. courtney, i have to say this one sudden march happened for all of was a head scratcher to me. us in the small business world. that this would become a it's been challenging. our business has been shut down permanent ban. for seven weeks, we are just now if the estimates are right, 77% in the process of getting our business back open, but to say of the population then may it's been difficult has been become ineligible over time to pretty much the understatement even serve in the military. how likely is this going to of the year. >> reporter: he's about the only one getting to reopen. he got a letter out of the blue stick? >> so i mean, as you said, saying actually you are an chuck, right now it's just essential business. interim. he sells raw honey which is i think that the department of defense is trying to figure out considered medicinal but how do one of the big questions about you reopen when you don't have coronavirus and that is are the foot traffic here that you need? so for a lot of people it's wait there any long term health implications? as the world is still learning and see and in that waiting is about coronavirus here, that's the future of their livelihoods one big question that we don't have the answer to. and those of the people who work but there's two other points about this story that we have to for them, katy. keep in mind. >> chris jansing in a very empty one is i think people would be shocked if they saw the number of disqualifying health issues hahaska, pennsylvania. thank you very much. that the department of defense chuck? >> thank you.

coming up, california lists. the document is about 50 pages governor gavin newsom singles out a hands-on business for long. it's everything from internal issues that you might have spreading coronavirus in his health issues to physical things state. the nation grapples with the unemployment crisis we will talk to senator angus king that can pro vent you from about what the federal government plans to do to help. that's ahead. he federal government plans to do to help wearing your mimelitary equipme that's ahead save hundreds on your wireless bill you need. while this interim guidance has been in effect, it does have a qualifier in it that there is the potential that people could get a waiver and still serve in the military. i think a lot of americans might be surprised by the number of waivers that are issued every single year for people to join the military. it's everything from health issues that they have to get a doctor's note and then be waived into to things like minor skirmishes with the law that an individual might have had in their past, chuck. >> well, it was quite the striking note and we saw it -- in fact, when i first saw it, i said that can't be right. here we are.

courtney, thank you for a little bit of reality of what is likely to come. katy, over to you. and, chuck, today marks the 75th anniversary of the end of world war ii in europe. commemorations have been scaled back. joining us now is our foreign correspondent from outside of buckingham palace. what does it look like out there? >> katy this is not the joyous celebration that many have planned. its very toneded down down as mentioned. the street parties, parades, none of that took place. ve day is hugely important to the queen herself. 75 years ago she stood on that balcony of buckle ham palace without even leaving your house. behind me and watched the just keep your phone and switch to xfinity mobile. celebrations unfold. and katy, you'll know from your time in london, on v.e. day, you can get it by ordering a free sim card online. it's traditional to go into the once you activate, you'll only have to pay streets and have a party. let me just show you what it for the data you need- saving you up to $400 a year. looks like today under coronavirus. normally this would be packed there are no term contracts, no activation fees,

with people shoulder to shoulder. and no credit check on the first two lines. there would be union jack flags in the flag poles. get a $50 prepaid card when you switch. people standing shoulder to it's the most reliable wireless network. shoulder and singing. and it could save you hundreds. instead, it is pretty much dead xfinity mobile. out here. europe, of course, fighting a second war, the uk, the epicenter of europe's coronavirus pandemic. katy, back to you. >> patriotism on full display during celebrations like this out there. thank you very much. coming up next hour, we're going to talk to two top white house economic advisors during the last financial crisis about what the government should be doing right now. plus, an update from georgia where two men have been arrested and charged in the shooting death of an unarmed black man in february. you're watching msnbc. are staying at home, many of life's moments are being put on hold. at carvana, we understand that, for some, getting a car just can't wait. to help, we're giving our customers up to 90 days to make their first payment. shop online from the comfort of your couch, and get your car with touchless delivery

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when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, >> this whole thing started in the state of california, the you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. first community spread, in a stop chantix and get help right away nail salon. i just want to remind you, if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, remind everybody, of that. i'm very worried about that. suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, >> despite that other governors or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions. seem undeterred. in arizona hair salons and decrease alcohol use. use caution driving or operating machinery. barber shops are open for business today and that is where tell your doctor if you've had mental health problems. we find nbc's von hillyard who the most common side effect is nausea. is live for us in phoenix talk to your doctor about chantix. outside one of those salons. the most common side effect is nausea. so salons, that's a when your v-neck looks more like a u-neck... close-proximity business, you have a lot of personal contact that's when you know, it's half-washed. with people. how do those owners say that they are going to keep not only downy helps prevent stretching by conditioning fibers, themselves safe, but their so clothes look newer, longer. downy and it's done. customers? >> reporter: katy, this is the hard part of this here. you were talking about the economics consequences, just in the state of arizona more than 500,000 arizonans have filed unemployment claims. so when you are talking about hairstylists and barber shops

they've been out of business for nearly two months here in the yothat's why kubota'sl. 1,100 dealers state of arizona. we were just inside before the are working to keep you working. first customers started coming call or email your kubota dealer about 0% financing. in here this morning. here in phoenix here at denmark no payments for 90 days offer expires 5/31. salon and i want to introduce you to one of the hairstylists together we do more. we were talking to, valerie, and she will outline she's eager, she said they're clearing away magazines, everybody is go going to be having masks, folks here before their appointment are waiting in their cars before going in. they are trying to do their best while also getting their business up and running. i want to let you hear directly from valerie on how she feels being back today. >> today we are coming out of hiding, we are opening the hair salons back in business for cutting, coloring hair and precautions we're talking about everything safetywise, you know, screening people before they come in, offering masks for them to wear, everyone is going to have to have a mask if they're going to sit in this chair. >> reporter: valerie said that she appreciated the governor's

decision to begin opening up retail and the hair salons here today, at the same time this is tough. in just the last four days the state of arizona, katy, has recorded its four highest single day death toll days of this entire process. while retail opens up in the state of arizona the state continues to get pummeled and continues to get hit. you see that curve and this is a challenging time where folks want business to get back open good afternoon. but the reality is despite this i'm chuck todd. it is 11:00 a.m. out west, 2:00 p.m. in the east and here are the facts as we know them at this hour. >> vaughn hillyard in phoenix. the president, vice president and members of the white house staff will now be tested daily thank you. chuck, this is a reality of our economic system. for the coronavirus. what we're doing right now is forcing people to decide between this comes after staffers in te their lives and their lively hoods. we're saying either you go back positive for covid-19 in the last 48 hours. to work and you can pay your bills or you don't have back to president also offered to provide the biden campaign with work and you can't pay your bills and that's forcing you to coronavirus testing if they ask say with a what do i value more? for it. if the biden campaign needed >> and the tests just keep coming up positive, though, rapid testing, would you make that's the other issue, the sure they got it? virus is not gone, suppressed, >> yes, 100%.

i'd love to see them get out of under control, nor have we gps'd the basement so he can speak. i'll give them the test it correctly in order to safely immediately. he would have it to them today. nobody's ever asked me for the do this and here we are. as we consider today's historic monthly job losses take a look at that right corner of your screen because it's a test. the state of california has begun to reopen the economy reminder of how odd things are today while bars and restaurants at times. here is a reminder of what remain closed with the exception of takeout orders. economic desperation looks like, sporting goods stores, music stores and florists are open for business just in time for the hundreds of cars lined up at a little rock, arkansas, food bank. the stark divide between the biggest floorest d wall street rosy outlook numbers like we're seeing today and the biggest florist day of the year, mother's day. somber reality many americans, the first at home saliva test at home, the kits developed frankly many people around the at rutgers university cost $100 world are facing during this pandemic. joining us now is the economics each. patients would have to order it through a physician. a loan program intended to editor of the economist, henry provide relief to small businesses has run out of kerr. funding. your cover spoke to me with that the economic injury disaster loan program is so overwhelmed gap because let's say you have a high school economics student and they say, hey, dad, there's with requests and will stop nothing but job losses, the taking applications. here with me is my co-anchor for economy is terrible, no money is being spent, why is the stock the hour and the last one, katy

market up? how would you explain it to that high school economics student? tur. >> well, i think you have to katy, we started with that start by saying that the federal economic story the last time. reserve has to take but i have to tell you, the extraordinary actions during virus continues to haunt all of this crisis in order to protect us. i think every time we think you're going to move past the the economy. now, that's the right thing for the central bank to do, but the virus, we can start with the economic cleanup. it's almost as if i grew up in effect of them, for instance, miami, you deal with the buying junk corporate bonds is hurricanes. and it's sort of like the first that investors take confidence part is dealing with the storm and not getting injured by it. in the economic rebound. of course, markets can be wrong, part two is the cleanup. and we've been in this, like, there's always the risk that hurry up we want to get to the they turn down, but at the cleanup, we want to get to the cleanup but the hurricane is striking thing is that the u.s. still here. and these tests of positive is in this exceptional position tests that show up at the white house is just proof positive of compared to the rest of the world where the markets really that. katy? rallied even as the labor market >> it's not saa singular event. looks worse than elsewhere, so it's a hurricane happening every that divergence, that contrast, day for months on end. you continue to prepare and then is particularly acute. weather it and then wait for the i think you have to start by cleanup that just never comes saying that it's the central because you're never quite bank, but also that markets are through the storm. forward looking. the jobs numbers today, chuck, they did take a big tumble at first of course. were utterly shattering. >> right. >> i'm curious about the

and it seems like congress has different responses between the united states and countries in lost the urgency of the moment. europe. what we saw in italy and other we're not seeing the bottom to places was a really strict france, a really strike lockdown that didn't let anybody out and this yet. in america it wasn't as strict the jobs are the tip of the iceberg. and governors are allowed to there is this idea out there decide when to reopen to we are seeing this phased reopening that maybe the demand is still because there is real concern there and a quick rebound. about our economy completely but a lot of the jobs might not shattering. come back as quickly as anybody what are other governments doing in order to prop up their wants them to. economies and how is it and when you look at congress, different than what we have you wonder why are they not here? >> well, i'd say the main moving to act more quickly to difference between america and certainly europe is the attitude to the labor market. undergerd the economic situation so the main program in america of millions and millions of americans. the same way that we're seeing has been to increase the overseas. but let's get into that during unemployment insurance available, as you know, by $600 this hour. and, again, by now we've all a week, whereas that is not true seen the april jobs numbers. 20.5 million people have lost their jobs. sending the unemployment rate to in many countries in europe and in the uk, the government is a sky high 14.7%. the highest since the great paying people's wages to stop depression. it is only the third time the them getting laid off. they're sitting furloughed at past 70 years that number has home and the government is either broken or touched 10%. paying their paycheck, but only but the jobs report only tells a

if they are not laid off. so that contains the rise in the partial story of the damage left in the wake of the coronavirus unemployment number. of course t doesn't contain the number of jobs in reality that have stopped, but it means that that contrast between the pandemic. markets and the real economy so, stephanie, what's going to isn't quite so stark. now, a lot of countries are happen next? asking how are we going to get >> i mean only time will tell. out of this extraordinary one thing, though, it's hard to economic support? how are we going to wind it back? it can't go on forever and when put this in historical perspective because you can't. they do that will the statistics remember, we turned our economy suddenly look a lot worse and off. it's not the demand you just that's the main challenge mentioned it disappeared. outside the u.s. i'd say. we said you're going to have to >> i was just going to say, turn the economy off in order to henry, forget just outside the address this health crisis. u.s., this is everywhere, and that's why we're seeing such whether it's the united states massive numbers. . so the issue is how big is the or what we're seeing with other demand on the other side? central banks. we are all printing a ton of and you said it a he moment ago -- we don't know yet. money, we are all sort of flooding the zone here once we reopen, are we going to need all those jobs? the fact you have 20 million understandably. people on unemployment, the good you just talked about the unwinding. the unintended consequences of thing is those people have that, i mean, how likely -- i financial security for the next few months. mean, it's just inevitable we but for those businesses out are going to see massive inflation over the next couple there and i have spent all this time, many of us have, with of years? >> so the immediate -- the small businesses, they're panic stricken. whether they got some government immediate risk that the world aid or not, they need to reopen.

faces is not inflation, it's and the interesting thing that i deflation. it's very clear that this has heard today because i spoke to the governor of new jersey, he been a shock, massively cut is saying we obviously have to consumer spending, all the put health first. with very to think about people out of work, once the business later. but with small businesses, support winds down will not have they're saying things aren't the money in their pockets they closed. just think about this for a moment, katy. need to go out and support the economy. so that's what central banks are what's open? fighting. walmart, target, lowe's. now, there are some people, they they're open because they're are a minority, but they do considered necessary stores exist saying that you could have because they sell essential a surge in inflation once all goods. they sell a lot more than that. you go to the stores, you can this stimulus next year runs up buy a beach chair, boogie board, against an economy that's still surfboard, board games. constrained, that still can't so for small businesses in fully open, you will have too much money chasing too few goods america that are our heart and and services. it is a view that's out there. it's not what markets expect and it's not what most people expect, but it could happen. soul tlaen and there are big box. >> henry kerr, i think you have the -- one of the great titles, you are to be the economics what is to come? we're going to recover out of editor at the economist, that comes with a lot of pressure as this because some demand is well. henry, thanks for coming on and there. the biggest businesses have the sharing your expertise with us. most financial cushion that are katy, over to you. able to pivot and create new >> thanks for having me. work space that's will enable coming up, new signs of hope them to be functioning in a post

in the fight against coronavirus world where small coronavirus. what a new study is revealing business is really a good chance they're not going to make it about survivors of the virus im. through. >> stephy, i thought thanie tha you're watching msnbc. i just love hitting the open road and telling people good point about walmart. i've been talking to restaurant owners, much as you have been, you folk used a lot on that. and there is this feeling that the ppp loans just don't work for them because when they reopen, they won't necessarily need to hire back their staff because they might not have the same customer traffic that they had before. what sort of pressure is being put right now on congress to extend the forgiveness aspect of the ppp loan and what would that mean for the restaurant industry? >> listen, they're trying to look at different options that aren't even ppp. the fact that the second round of ppp has still not run out shows you that this thing is not one size fits all and even though all this pressure is put back on some businesses, we said that liberty mutual customizes your insurance, that money wasn't intended for you. time to give it back. so you only pay for what you need!

[squawks] only pay for what you need. this thing is not going to work ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ for me. businesses can't keep 100% employment because it won't work for them in their new functioning environment. so the take away is the program that's have been put forward are big and bold but they're not fitting some of our most important businesses. >> such a good point. stephanie, thank you as always. chuck, over to you. yeah. that was -- plenty of small business owners have said did anybody talk to a small business owner when they designed this program? when asked about the april jobs report, president trump struck an optimistic tone vowing to get americans back to work. >> so the jobs will all be back and back very soon. and next year we're going to have a phenomenal year. people are ready to go. we have to get it open. safely. people are ready to go. >> and most people appear to

shart positi share the positive outlook right now. 77% of laid off workers believe that they would get their job woi felt completely helpless.hed online. back within the next six months, my entire career and business were in jeopardy. essentially, after the crisis. but according to "the washington i called reputation defender. post," many economists worry 40% vo: take control of your online reputation. of the temporary job looses are get your free reputation report card at reputationdefender.com. likely to become permanent. it could take years to return to find out your online reputation today the february 3.5% unemployment rate that we saw. and let the experts help you repair it. what can the federal government woman: they were able to restore my good name. do to minimize economic fallout? vo: visit reputationdefender.com or call 1-877-866-8555. joined now by chairman and ceo of willit advisors. you just heard katy and a new study by doctors at stephanie, steve, talking about, look, ppe looked like a big bold mount sinai hospital in new york city might offer some hope in the fight against the idea and now it looks like, boy, coronavirus, it finds nearly a, it wasn't big enough. everyone who recovered from the wasn't designed right. disease also has antibodies to and frankly, you can give congress a break, right? the virus, adding to the evidence of immunity. in that you tried something. so joining us now is the

it's not the way it should do. director of the harvard global so now what should we do. health institute dr. jaha. now this is a much longer i would like to begin with a unemployment run that we're going to hit here, what should straightforward question about the government package look like in your mind? the different testing people read and hear about right now or sometimes experience. you have diagnostic, you have the antibodies test and you have let me make a couple points. one, the 14.7% is awful as it is serology. so i guess the question i have for you is what is the test that really not understates the trun most people should want to have if they don't want symptoms, employment. there is another 6 million number one, and what is the test people who left their jobs and if in your mind that we should laid off temporarily, or so they be ramping up as a country to be think for six months. able to do as fast as possible they don't count. six million that left the labor and as constantly as possible? force. they don't count. >> right. if you put those all back into so, chuck, thanks so much for the job market, you get to more having me on. like 23%. so it's a huge number. i think of tests in two buckets, the poll a minute ago, you said 77% expected to be rehired. there is tests to diagnose if you have the disease and a test that means 23% who don't expect to diagnose or to determine to be rehired. and that is a huge number. whether you are immune from the disease. okay? so we need to do more. or you have antibodies which we think should confirm immunity. the pcr test, the naval swab, the one that the president and the rescue part is getting money

the vice president are getting into the hands of both consumers every day, all of that is and small business. looking for virus and is looking to see if you're actively so they can spend money and that will be like a fly wheel and infected. serology, antibody, immunity generate more economic activity testing, they all represent the on the small businesses survive. same thing, which is a blood i think restaurants are almost a draw which looks for antibodies unique and unusual anyway in your system to basically say problem. because we're talking about have you been previously capacity and 25% or 50%. infected and might you be immune now, those are the two buckets. restaurants are a tough business under the best of circumstances. the one we have to ramp up is the pcr virus testing because i don't think there are many restaurants in america that can that tells us who is infected an make money at 25 or 50%. who is not and that's how we st so i don't have a great keep our economy open because if solution to the restaurant we can tell who is infected we can separate them out and let everybody else go about their problem. we need to get to the building phase. we need to do things like instra business. structure. >> katy tur. >> dr. jha, when it comes to i think this is a whole new antibody testing what's the missing piece of the puzzle that situation has exposed the will tell us whether you are immune from this disease, if you weaknesses of the small business have the antibodies? administration. that should be beefeded up and >> yeah. provide more help to small so there have been two questions business to get back in that have been in front of us business. there is a good list of things. but economists as you suggest for a while, this new study that you mentioned helps us answer doesn't seem motivated. one of them.

the two questions were, one, is >> well, i think, frank lishly, if you get the virus and you recover, do you generate adequate amount of antibodies? does your body produce enough antibodies and the second is do think it's paralysis. there is some part that says, you no he what? those antibodies protect you we're trying to figure out the economic picture. from the virus in the future? unless you get the testing picture and the confidence picture fixed, it doesn't matter i think we now have very, very good evidence, again, this study how much money you throw at this still a pre print, that's been peer reviewed but it's very well problem. done by a great group seems to ima suggest that people do generate antibodies, almost everybody. so that's great news. the second part is does it you made a point about the restaurant industry. protect you from the virus in it's going to be impossible to bring a lot of the restaurants the future. back. you no he this going forward. we think it does, it should, but so does that mean there's got db we are going to have to much we might want to say, look, more carefully track these there's going to be a certain sector of businesses that are people, see what happens to them when they are exposed to the all going go under in the next virus again. 18 months under this obviously we can't reinfect them with the virus, so we are going circumstance? to have to see what happens in do you artificially prop them up their daily lives and see if any or do you artificially -- or do of them end up getting immune. you basically pay the employees of those businesses that are going away until they find a new job? >> fair question. on your first question, i think the government has to be able to

walk and chew gum at the same time. we can't say to ourselves we're going to worry only about the health side of this until we fix that problem. then we're going to turn to the economy. i think that's a little bit of how we got into the problem we have now. we're so far behind that testing and our contact tracing and things like that. we left that a little bit until we got past the first negotiation phase. and i think in retrospect was a mistake. i say the government should be working on it now. the idea you have mitch mcconnell saying we don't need anything. we need to get -- we need to get going on that. and then as far as your point about do you protect businessors do you try to ease the transition? i think history tells you that easing a transition is the better path. you can't protect industries that -- or business that's simply don't need -- don't have the demand for the services or else we would still be making buggy whips in this country he and out running around in

carriages pulled by horses. a lot of things would be different than they are. you have to embrace change. with he don't need so many restaurants in america given the social distancing that we're going to live with for a long time. but that's a -- the department of commerce, treasury, to ease the transition by facilitating the creation of new businesses. >> problem is no elected official, steve, wants to be the one that says, sorry. that favorite restaurant of yours, kint hei can't help you now. no one wants to say what is obviously staring us in the face. steve ratner, thank you for sharing your point of view with us. much appreciated. >> thanks, chuck. katy, over to you. and despite being one of the first hot spots for the coronavirus, washington state has not seen a dramatic spike in deaths like other states. that's been credited in part to washington's early stay at home order which remains in effect until may 31st. now some state republican law makers are fighting to lift that order. joining us now from olympia,

washington, is our nbc news reporter dasha burns. what do you got? >> well, katy, the lawsuit is really based on what you just said there. the fact that washington state has avoided the worst of the storm. even though that is partly to the stay at home order, the lawmakers say that that now is doing more harm than good. to extend that order. i spoke to two of the plaintiffs this morning. take a listen to what they told me. >> people have learned through this crisis that there is a way that we're going to have to adapt going forward. i trust the citizens of the state to make those healthy decisions. more than i do one person suspending civil liberties. there are thousands of washington citizens on the brink of economic ruin. >> and, katy, we reached out to the grofrnovernor's office. they said the lawsuit misunderstands basic aspects of public health and clear constitutional authority and

obligation the governor has to protect the public. the governor also called this b ignore anlt. chuk, over you to. a father and his adult son are both facing aggravated assault and murder charges in the state of georgia in a case that has prompted outrage around the country. these two men are accused of shooting and killing this young man, 25-year-old ahmaud arbery. his family says he was simply out for a jog. it happened back in february. but these arrests are happening now and only happening now because it is days after the release of a graphic video that appears to show these two gentlemen shooting the young man. gregory and travis mcmichael say they acted in self-defense. investigators talked about why

it took so long to make the arrest in a news conference earlier this morning. >> i will tell you that we base our decision onz two things, one are facts and the other is the law. whatever the facts are, we apply the law to it. if the law says what the facts are as a felony murder, then we take the warrants for it. i'm very comfortable in telling you there is more than sufficient probable cause in this case for felony murder. >> joining us now from brunswick, georgia, is our msnbc correspondent blaine alexander. blaine, this has been investigated twice, i guess, right? the first time and now they're investigating it i guess more thoroughly this time? >> yes. where it stands is the gbi has come in and taken over this investigation. pt before it was being handled locally by the local police department. but now the state investigative body has come in. here's what's interesting about. this the mcmichaels right now just wrapped up their first

appearance in the courtroom behind me. no bond set. still being held here in the detention center. but the timing of this is very interesting. you know, i spoke with family members of ahmaud arbery after the arrest came out last night. and they said essentially this is just the first step towards justice. what they want to see now is a conviction. but you're still seeing these munny protes mini froests around the country. this happened in february. people protesting are saying, look, it's been ten weeks before you saw any sort of arrest, any sort of movement. once the gbi got involved, however, they made an arrest within 36 hours. so a lot of people are looking at local officials to determine why exactly things weren't done sooner. here's a little bit of how i questioned the director of the gbi early today about that delay in arrest. take a look. are you frustrated by the delay, the ten week delay in when this happened and when an arrest was made here? >> the way we look at cases, if we can become involved in a case when there's still an active

crime scene, when something just happened, that's always better for my people. it always is. >> and, chuck, really the thing that set all of this into motion is the release of the video. that's what the attorney said, that's what the director of the gbi said when i questioned him how important that evidence was. he said it was certainly a very important piece of evidence. that video being made public and then that public outcry that you saw bouncing around the country over the past few days. i will say that the attorney says he is satisfied with the charges as they stand on the state level. but he says that there should be an investigation into possible federal hate crime charges. keep in mind, georgia is a state that does not have a hate crime statute. so those would be a federal charges that he believes are appropriate in this case. chuck? >> well, that will be something that will be up to the attorney general and the department of justice on that one. we shall see. blaine alexander, thank you for that report. katy, over to you. chuck, still to come, the future of the restaurant

industry is bleaker than many people initially thought even after today's jobs report. andrew zimmer, host of msnbc's what's eating america will join us. and which a higher risk in our new normal. first, how a llama may actually help us defeat the virus. you're watching msnbc. save hundreds on your wireless bill

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. now to a story you didn't

see coming in the search for a coronavirus treatment. a 4-year-old belgian llama named winter signed the antibodies might be the key to unlocking ways to find the virus. joining us now is nbc's tessa arsilla in belgium. can you explain how they believe this llama's antibodies can help people? >> such an interesting study. so basically, the gist of this joint u.s.-belgium study is that winter, the llama, is able to produce antibodies that blocks the covid-19 virus from attaching to a cell. now why llamas? scientists have longed look to them for antibody research. they've done so in the past with influenza and promising therapies. and also llamas produce two antibodies. one is produced by those like human beings and another is smaller. the key is this smaller version. it is able to attach to the crevasses, stopping the crown of

the virus from attaching to a cell. the scientists tell me it is much easier to manipulate in the lab. the plan is if this is effective, they can come up with an anti-viral drug of some sort that can stay in the human body for two months. one of the main scientists at the university of gent said when it comes to winter the llama and to us she is a super hero. and it's what we know. and we see whether we can find some additional and we'll be even more and another thing they told me, katy is they actually produce a similar antibodies. chuck now, i think i feel like i

must say i twhinter is coming. winter is coming. >> i was about to do it there. they can survive anything, of course sharks have antibodies. you know what elimination has antibodies, roaches for all we know. probably the cockroach at this point. right? exactly. they're going to be here. so maybe they have the antibodies too. anyway, all right. a dutch restaurant found a way to offer outdoor dining while keeping everyone socially distant. small glass green houses are built just for a few people. so waiters wear gloves and face shields and use a long board to serve food to the customers inside your personal bubble. so that there is minimal contact. so for now, the trial run with the staff's family and friends. in a beach bar on an island in greece is taking a similar measure with plexiglass screen between beach chairs.

you know, katy, i've actually, you know, we laugh. i started to see -- you're starting to see plexiglas is installed, i saw i think in german classrooms in front of the teacher's desks. i do think this could be a much of our new normal. we'll see plexiglas barriers everywhere in our lives. >> there is one at my local pharmacy when i have to go pick up a prescription. there is glass. the it may be the new normal for a little while. but this is not something that is going to be one size fits all. it's not necessarily solution that the restaurant industry would easily be able to adapt to. here in the united states, more than a quarter of the 20.5 million americans who lost their jobs in the last month, chuck, worked in restaurants. the most of any industry for the second consecutive month. so joining us now is the host of "what's eating america" on msnbc, andrew. it's good to see you.

we just had steve ratner on a moment ago. he said it's hard to bail out an industry that doesn't have demand. maybe that means we don't need so many restaurants in america. that's a whole lot of jobs. what say you? >> i would rather see the marketplace dictate the rate of attrition rather than us try to game plan that out now. when you look bake six months ago, you know, just pick any month last fall in the p precovid-19er rashgs you can see how important they are to our economy. take a look at the stats. independent restaurants alone are a trillion dollar industry with 11 million employees. you just cited the fact from today's bureau of labor statistics announcement. you know, a quarter of the job losses were in our industry. just flip that around. we're a necessary part of the

economy not only do we find a trillion dollars to the gdp, but, you know, look at what that money goes to. we're paying out to farmers and suppliers on the chain and 93, 94% of the money that comes into a restaurant goes out the backside. i can't think of another industry that is more vital to local economies. the trust taxes we pay to municipalities and states is absolutely staggering. you know, we're pleased that congress is proposing changes to the ppp now. we really need the stabilization fund that we called on congress to enact on an 29th to help backstop a vital part of our culture, our tourism, our main street america industry. and then let's have the marketplace and the people and

attrition sort out who manages their way through this crisis and who doesn't. >> let me ask you this. last week we showed how a single restaurant closing in new york city, just to underscore what you were saying, affected the economies of half a dozen states and a lot more if you follow each of the restaurant supply chains through the country. what do you need or what will the restaurant industry look like? is it possible to set up plexiglas partitions between booths? is that -- or between tables. is that going to mean that more restaurants will be able to reopen? will they still be able to make margins if they have 60% capacity or, god forbid 30% capacity? what's going to happen? >> great question. that's the key issue. that's why we're looking at an 18-month program instead of an eight week program to help restaurants.

sure. i think restaurant people ploest creative people on planet earth. we'll find the plexiglas booths and giant paddles. we need to reorganize the line, reorganize the way we receive goods in the back door, how we greet guests in the front door. that's going to cost real money. this is a penny's business for so many small operators and entrepreneurs around the country. they're going to need the dollars to retrofit the businesses. i think once we show the consumers what we're doing to ensure the safety of our employees in the restaurant and our guests, the consumer confidence will rise. people want to go out. they want to eat in restaurants. when you fly to another city, you i don't do so to go eat at chain restaurant. you go to eat at the restaurants that make that city or that town so vibrant. we necessarily and needfully need to be mindful of this very important part of our economy and that's why the

irssaverestaurants.com is in support of the stabilization fund. >> andrew, you've -- >> go ahead. >> quickly. as someone that's been recently binging all the weird food you've been eating around the world the last few years, i'm curious the more we learn about how this virus may have come from one of the open air meat markets, you've seen -- you've seen these. you've been to the open air meat markets around the globe. how much of a world movement do we need to sort of clean up these open air meat markets? do we need -- do we have a sort of a clean world environment when it comes to food? >> well, for 12 years i shoppeded bizarre foods on every continent on the planet. and i dare say i've been in more wet markets than anybody. the vast majority of them, especially over the last decade, have become regulated, clean establishments. i have been in the wet markets

in wuhan. i shot television there. i think this is a country by country regulation issue. but we need a clean food system no matter where on planet earth it exists. >> andrew, thank you very much. chuck, over to you. i still enjoy watching you eat the bizarre foods and not me these days. up next, the new normal at the office. how some workplaces are preparing for the eventual return of their employees. and it goes far beyond simply socially distanced cubicles. tany award-winning voice remote. access to your favorite apps, including netflix, prime video, youtube and hulu. all without changing passwords and inputs. the most 4k content and movies and shows on any screen. the best entertainment experience all in one place.

20.5 million people lost their jobs in april. as states begin to reopen, many hope that number will go down as businesses rehire. but what will the job market and those workplaces really look like? it's a question we have asked over and over again. joining us now is nbc news investigative and consumer correspondent. vicki, tell us what you saw. >> kat katy, you're looking at aspect of the future of jobs. working from home as employers take stock of what the employees are able to do and how effective they are from home. if you are one of the tens of millions of people who are side lined right now, it is tough. i get that. but it's also an opportunity to take stock of what you're good at to see who is hiring and to

use this time to get ready. >> monster.com says the jobs in highest demand now include front line health care workers, truck drivers, and software developers. of the top searches by job seekers are work from home, health care and warehouse worker. what can we be doing with our time now that can prepare us for the jobs of the future? >> right now, people can be learning. ramp up your skill set in terms of what you're learning online, what you're consuming. take an online class. >> monster career expert says take this time to make multiple resumes to showcase different skills and network. >> reach out to former boss, former colleagues, get in touch and maintain and build those relationships right now. >> if you are working from home, a recent survey shows more than half of employers are willing to re-examine their policies based on staff productivity during the pandemic. >> as of today, restaurants, retail and gyms have the ability

to open in limited capacity. >> those returning to work can expect new cleaning procedures, less business travel, and possibly even health scans before workers can enter a building. now we're going to calculate your body temperature. >> and check out the six feet office concept by kushman and wakefield, are carpet to designed the social distancing and desk pads to keep shared spaces clean. they call for barriers like these between employees at desks. and air rows on the floor directing people which way to walk to minimize chances to bump into each other. >> i can see after two weeks of testing that people really appreciate to feel safe and back at work and enjoy colleagues to just laugh and look at you in the eye. >> workers should also be prepared for health screenings, a new report from colombia university calls for health care, restaurants, aennd public transit workers to be rapid tested before each shift. >> you would be willing to

submit to a nasal swab before your shift? >> without question. i mean, it would be ridiculous if you didn't. >> dr. irwin redlener co-authored the report. >> we cannot undermine the necessary things that need to be in place in order to go back to work safely. >> also gaining new skills, there are online educating resources like skill share. they're offering free mini courses teaching from you software development to product and marketing. this is really a time to invest in yourself. one more thing, katy, for folks working from home enincurring additional costs, don't hesitate to ask your employer if they'll reimburse you for head phones and printer. you don't know unless you ask. >> it's a business expense. vicki, thank you very much. chuck, over to you. well for more on what to expect when americans start get back to work, we now want to

join gene sperlg, former economic adviser to presidents clinton and obama. "economic dignity" is out this week and considering what we have now in our society deemed as essential workers and not, the idea of economic dignity perhaps takes on a different meaning for some folks. but gene, let's start with you've been involved with rescue operations before. big government rescue operations back in '08 and '09. yet, it seems whatever did you then, you need to do it, what, a five x for what did you in '08 and '09? it is a ten x? considering what you were involved with in the last great recession, what do you think the size of the government bailout should be considering what is facing us? >> i think it needs to be enormous. you know, chuck, in some ways the financial crisis was, you know, was more complex, was about preventing a global

meltdown. this crisis has a deeper effect. the job numbers today are understated. we clearly have over 20% unemployment. we're going to lose millions of jobs next month. but on the other hand, there is a bit of common sense to what we need to do. you don't want to see small business as that could otherwise be viable closing down for no reason. you want to help keep people whole, meaning that they should be try to get them 100% of their paycheck through unemployment. or they're idle. this is the humane thing to do. part of having a dignified dignity economy. but it also is going to keep our economy stronger and that will lead to spending. the other thing you need to do is we've got to link our assistants not to some arbitrary amount or arbitrary day. we have to have that feeling of we're going to do what is necessary. so what we need to do is have a package that says we're going to give whatever state and local government relief is necessary. it looks like up to 500,000

teachers may have been laid off in the last month. so whatever is necessary including unemployment insurance, including the small business help. it doesn't mean it goes on forever. it's just you tie it to the actual pain in the economy, not an arbitrary amount or date. >> right. >> you know, katy, gene just used the word viable. and i know you and i were just having a conversation about small business viability and i know you had an interesting take on that, katy, take it away. >> so, jump into a debate we've been having, gene about, what industries might deserve a bailout and what industries might not deserve a bailout. we had steve ratner on a little while ago. maybe we just have too many restaurants. if there is not demand for all of those restaurants, well maybe then some of them will shudder and that's the way the economy works. there's also no demand on airlines right now. and airlines -- the airline industry got a giant bailout. how do you decide which industry

is more deserving of a bailout and another? especially when you consider how restaurants can have a ripple effect across the entire economy and across multiple states through the supply chains? zblfr zbl >> i guess i disagree with steve much it's about our working families, it's about letting people thrive and survive this time. i think the truth is that when we bring back all the jobs, if we can do the safe and smart testing and procedures we have seen and great trust in consumers to go back, we do have to confront that there are some jobs that are never coming back. i mean, i think you are saying, katy, there may be changes in the economy in terms of how much business travel is or working more from home. so there may be jobs that don't come back. but if you have a small business owner that has put together a restaurant that employs people and people are likely to want to come back and go to restaurants

once we have a vaccine to simply allow that person's hopes and dreams to be shuttered and destroys when they have done nothing wrong other than living through a 102-year pandemic and, you know, you were talking about in the previous segment about the ppp, the small business section. i mean, it's heartbreaking to me that those minority small businesses often restaurants, small business owners relied on their family and friends instead of banks to get their financing. the they're not getting their help. so they're losing everything. not because they're not viable. not because they don't have a product or a service that could still employ people and give them dignity and help with wealth inequality. it's our response failed. and our response has to be about keeping people whole. and when we're giving money to help people through an industry, you just have to make sure it's not going to executive bonuses. it's not going to stock dividends and buybacks. it's going to keep those workers

on the job. >> right. gene sperlg, sorry for cutting you off a little early here. we wanted to go a little longer. we have a little bit of breaking news. gene, thank you. economic dignity is his book. very smart guy. worth your time. gene, thank you. glad he was able to jump in on that. let's go to hans nichols at the white house with some breaking news. hans, what do you have? >> well, the president of united states has just identified by the first name only the member of the vice president's staff who tested positive for coronavirus and started off the contact tracing throughout the west wing. now here's what the president said and want to be very careful about this for privacy concerns. but he said it was a wonderful young woman, comma, katie. now he also suggested that this staff individual works in the vice president's press office. now nbc news policy is not to identify anyone until they self identify, however, the president of the united states has said that the individual who has

tested positive for coronavirus has the first name of katie. and when you look at how the morning played out, you initially had several staffers who were taken off the plane. the vice president's traveling to iowa. he's there right now. staffers were taken off the plane because they had been in contact with this individual. and then the contact tracing started throughout the administration, throughout the west wing. we'll get back to you more when we find out about more individuals that potentially had contact with this individual. but as for now, the president identifying at least by first name the name of this person. guys? >> and hans, i understand we have a little news on the doctor that was forced out of a position, wasn't fired technically from the government. he was essentially moved because he was not a political appointee. the president couldn't directly fire him. what have we learned? >> so it looks like interim ruling, first ruling on this is suggesting that he can go back to his old position. my colleague jeff bennett is reporting on this.

the way these complaints kind of percolate up the system is you have a series of steps. fwhut initi but this initial ruling is positive for dr. bright. this is looking favorably upon it. guys? >> hans nichols, thank you very much for that breaking news. up next, what is safer, a gym or a coffee shop and how questions like that can be the key to reopening the country. you're watching msnbc. ntry you're watching msnbc. our officd playgrounds. all those places out there are now in here. that's why we're still offering fast, free two day shipping on thousands of items. even the big stuff. and doing everything it takes to ensure your safety. so you can make your home... everything you need it to be. wayfair. way more than furniture. introducing ore-ida potato pay.

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is it safer to visit a coffee shop or a gym in our new reality an op-ed in "the new york times" asks just that as states start to open up in incremental phases. they tracked anonymous cellphone data from a year ago to see what type of businesses get the highest number of customers, places like walmart, starbucks, businesses with smaller square footage or where customers linger and interact like fast-food restaurants indoors, gyms and sitdown restaurants are at higher risk. joining us now is one of -- sorry about that, is one of the co-writers of that article is catherine baker. catherine, using this, it was interesting reading this because we were just having a gym

discussion inside our home office here and you guys seemed to determine that the gym is probably not the place to be, that if you have to pick one you'd pick the coffee shop. >> unfortunately that's probably right. lot of different dimensions of riskiness. people tend to stay longer at the gym and they touch common surfaces. whereas, in the gym, there's a lot of shared equipment. but as you point out, restaurants are also pretty variable, some restaurants people stay a long time, some restaurants are much bigger and less crowded and people come through more quickly so you want to consider all of those factors if you're a customer or if you're a policymaker trying to decide which businesses are safest to open first. >> so, the other part of this would be, i guess, it's to make folks feel comfortable, how often do you test employees, but

even in those things, is that -- how much expectation should we have that a starbucks is going to test every employee every day? >> i think that we should all be prepared for the world to look different for a long time. businesses usual as probably not the right way to do business anymore and there are a lot of different ways that businesses can make life safer for their employees as well as for their customers, spacing people out, changing cleaning protocols, going to curbside pickup instead of browsing in the store, lots of these changes people are already experimenting with and we hope providing the kind of data that we have would not only give policymakers some new policy but also would enable businesses to be creative so that you could open more and more of the economy undoing all of the gains in health from

social isolation. >> customers just want confidence. katy, what about stores where you touch a lot of stuff, bookstore or a can clothing store? >> that kind of common touching is very risky and we all know kids can be germ carriers even if they don't get the disease themselves. thinking about finding ways to browse without touching as many things, whether that's through the way that you can interact with the things in the store or just shopping on online and picking up in the store that kind of common touching is one of the major risk factors in the way we used to do business. >> so it sounds like a lot of this business is going to have to go, you know, ordering over the phone and ordering online, negate the need for the brick and mortar portion of many of these businesses out there?

>> well, there's huge variability in how much business can resume online versus in person and there's a big disparity in the kind of jobs that can be done from home versus one that have to be in the workplace. those working from home tend to be dispor portion ately at the high level. affect different neighborhoods, different demographic groups. the social safety net is really important. >> katherine baker from the university of chicago and that fun op-ed using cellphone da to tell us high risk, low risk and medium risk. that does it for us today. katy, i'd be remiss if i didn't wish you an early happy mother's day. your second one.

i'm keeping track. i thought maybe it was your first one and then i realized, nope. our first just had a birthday. >> squeezed in the last one. thank you, chuck. >> all right, you got it. nicolle wallace and brian williams pick things up after a quick break. we'll see you monday. smoothest fabric. she's confident, protected, her strength respected. depend. the only thing stronger than us, is you.

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♪ 3:00 p.m. in the east. 12 noon out west. first, the headlines and the facts as we know them at this hour. there are over one and quarter million confirmed cases of coronavirus in our country, with the death toll now approaching 77,000. actual numbers of course of cases are far higher as only about 2.5% of americans have by now been tested. unemployment in our country is at its greatest level since the

great depression. the labor department says over 20 million jobs were lost in just the month of april the largest one-month drop in u.s. history. the unemployment rate soared to 14.7%, its worse since 1933 when it reached almost 25%. it looks like the latest case of coronavirus within the white house is an aide to the vice president. who the president himself referred to as a wonderful young woman named katie. white house's working to find other staffers who have come into contact with this infected aide. prior to departure on a trip today, air force two was delayed on the tarmac at andrews while several staffers were walked off the plane. you may recall a separate pence staffer tested positive in march the news comes a day after the military steward the valet for president trump also tested positive for the virus. a federal watchdog agency says

it's found reasonable grounds to believe the trump administration retaliated against dr. rick bright by removing him from his role leading the agency searching for a vaccine. agency said it would ask the health and human services to temporarily block his transfer until a full investigation is completed, the move comes days after dr. bright filed an official whistle-blower complaint, saying he was removed for resistanting efforts on unproven means for the coronavirus. we're joined by nicolle wallace. nicolle, if you put aside the bright story and all of its implications, put aside yet another case of coronavirus in the west wing and the visual of aides who were seated and boarded air force two ready for a trip,aircraft,

one assumes because of contact tracing. there are three months in time, in recent decades, that americans will always define as the darkest. by my calculations they are december 1941, they are september 2001 and now that list includes april of 2020. we lost over 57,000 souls and now we learn 20 million jobs were lost in the space of that one month. >> listen, i'm praying for the recovery of the aides to the president and vice president. i'm praying they didn't spread the infection to anyone else, because when you look at the economic calamity and that's what it is, it's not about donald trump and it's not vice president pence but we need them to help fixong journey sitting

air force one, or air force two. you get a van to the helicopter. but there are so many other steps to take a temperature, do a swab test. the fact they got on the plane first, if they threw them off, you wonder if they cleansed the plane as well? the logistics of getting on the plane, you're deep inside the presidential or in this case vice presidential bubble a by that point, i'm praying that those people with covid infections didn't spread it to any of their colleagues, we need these people at work. today was the day when the president and vice president should have been on the phone with every employer in the country trying to figure out how to re-train the american work force. they're home and they're all scared. every american is dealing with

economic despair and insecurity today. the fact that today, we all know that donald trump woke up tweeting about, more threats, more vitriol at the leaders of the fbi. instead of dealing with what's on the minds of every american, whether they are a democratic voter or republican voter, or an old person, or a young person, every feels economic fear or terror in some way or another in their bones. if the white house spending its days not wearing masks, attacking political enemies is -- is the enduring slow-motion scandal of our times. >> yeah. >> i know you -- we talk about it every day. they're still not testing. they're testing their staff.

we're so thankful are. when they will take the pract e practices to keep our president of our country safe and share them with the rest of us? >> it's so true. there's a vehicle that takes you to the andrews, if you're traveling on air force one or two, normally your bags are open while dogs can sniff the contents during the pre-flight time but your name is checked off the base of the stairs. you touch all of the surfaces that people touch on the aircraft. that has my mind reeling. while for us, this economic story today started our day as the lead story. >> and you know, we're going to i think constantly for the rest of the donald trump's presidency be juggling multiple lead stories. we were dealing with news today,

that story continues, flynn and we're dealing with the economic news as well. luckily for us. we're joined by chris lu and eli stokols. eli, one of the trump tells that you see with these infections reaching deep inside the president's inner circle. >> he continues to spin the story, he's trying to convince himself but the nonchalance, the jobs numbers, brushing off 20 million lost jobs in april and saying, everyone knew this was going to happen. really, not expressing a whole lot of concern for all those workers who don't have paychecks at the moment, saying, they'll get their jobs back, we're going to have a robust third and fourth quarter, don't worry about it. he has paid lip service to the victims, too, but he continues

to kind of shift back -- we're seeing into campaign mode, more grievance, more attacks, he left the white house this week and is acting more like we're used to see him act. and we have known throughout this presidency, this is a person who just really struggles to convey empathy and we're seeing that again. >> you know, i guess, chris, it's not that he's reading his notes, the problem is he doesn't feel any. to point of empathy, if you couldn't muster anything for the death and the infection rate, it's expected to quadruple in this month as we head to june 1st, death rate expected to double by june 1st, how about the economic despair? his brand is more closely associated with prosperity really than anything else by his

own telling. >> nicolle, when i was in the white house during the first term of the obama administration the worst jobs numbers we got was 800,000 jobs were lost in 2009, more than the number of the people in charlotte, north carolina, and we understood that wasn't just a worker losing his job, it affected a community, a town, the numbers we saw today was 25-times worse and to have a president go on tv, on fox news, saying it wasn't a surprise, it was to be expected, even the democrats don't blame me. this is all about him. instead of those 20 million people who are out at work, the millions of others whose hours who have been cut, small business owners who can't reopen and continue to struggle to try to get their ppp lones and the communities being put hold on at the moment. the u.s. economy runs on confidence. people won't spend money, businesses won't reopen unless they're confident.

what the president is trying to do right now is to magically will away a pandemic and say everything is fine. everything is not fine. clearly people aren't believing him. >> eli arguing against the kind of frantic effort to reopen and the spirit of that being pushed out, are the maps that show the states where cases are rising, and any time you stop and concentrate on our daily death toll, we lost over 2100 people in this country yesterday. >> right, we're over 77,000 now in total deaths in the united states and that's just a staggering amount and you can see the president obviously eager to get back to the campaign trail, brian, these are sort of taking different, you know, arc in different places. new york may be going down, but places didn't get hit at the beginning are now starting to go

up. governors are starting to make decisions to open up, ease some of these guidelines. it remains to be seen how well this play. this president has tried to distance himself from these decisions about when to reopen putting the responsibility as best as he can on the governors. if it goes badly he has somebody else to point to, this is not my fault. this was the central pillar of his re-election strategy running on how great the economy, now they've revamped that, you remember how good that is, we got hit by a meteor as one trump campaign adviser put it to me today. they point to internal campaign polling, yes, they can see the president lost a lot of ground to joe biden in these swing states according to their own polling but they say the one place he continues to be ahead of biden by double-digits is on

the question who's the better job creator, so they believe voters are not blaming the president necessarily for the economy falling off a cliff, and that may be instructive to joe biden's campaign connecting these dots and explaining to the country the reason the economy of where it is has to a lot to do with the federal response to actual pandemic. >> chris, you can tell someone said to the president we should call the third quarter transitional because he said it about six times over six days, and not to be snarky, can you tell me where the spending is going to come from, which quadrant of american families is going to feel flush enough to go out and spend on travel, events, outings, restaurants, any place where two or more people are gathered? >> yeah, i mean, brian, even before we got into the pandemic,

consumer debt was at a pre-great recession high of $14 trillion. so it wasn't like americans were flushed with cash before this. now on top of that, 20 million people out of work, a lot of people with their hours cut, businesses not reopening, restaurants not being able to operate at full capacity, this is really a time for presidential leadership. you know, you started the program talking about 1941 and in 2001 and what i think about those moments i think about how the presidents stood up and took decisive action. i'd another moment of history, 1929 in the stock market crash, today as i was trying to find a historical analogy, all i could find is herbert hoover after the stock market crash, he said, i'm convinced we passed the worst. that sounds like the attitude of donald trump today. he's going magically make this all of this goes away, it's not

going to happen unless the federal government takes action. >> speaking of public health, eli, the story that we came on the air on, it was wednesday, the filing of a whistle-blower complaint by dr. bright, he was the one who said that he was being pressured to green light hydroxychloroquine, he was the country's top vaccine scientist, he claimed retaliation for failing to get onboard and tout hydroxychloroquine, a federal agency found grounds that the administration was retaliating against dr. bright and he should be reinstated for 45 days. that news was shared with us by his attorneys.

their orders aren't binding, any word on how the white house will respond? >> well, i haven't gotten any official word from any sources at the white house yet. i can tell you, if you look at past and how the president operates this is not going to really amount to a whole lot, this president has fired two igs in the last couple months. the intelligence community ig and the acting ig at the pentagon. firing comby, firing jeff sessions, anybody not on the team so to speak they eventually get run out. that appears to be what happened with dr. bright as well. unlike any ig or special you know recommendation is going to basically compel this president, this administration, to shift course here, but you know, if you go back to when bright was making these claims, this was late january, all of the people

have talked about secretary azar frantically trying to keep his hands on this effort to corral control of coronavirus at that time and to convince everybody, no one more than the president that he had it under control and so people who would raise concerns, bright found a navarr have credibility among other senior staff, it didn't rise up and azar understandably given our reporting, was just desperate to squelch a lot of that and that a i peers to have led to bright's dismissal. >> our thanks to chris lu joining us from washington. eli joining us from his home at the explorers club. as the economic damage in this country worsens, states are rushing to reopen as we established, often without adequate testing and in some cases as their own death tolls from this virus are on the rise. one day after the department

of justice dropped the case against michael flynn or tried to, president trump hints there's more to come. more to co. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood, suicidal thoughts or actions, seizures, new or worse heart or blood vessel problems, sleepwalking, or life-threatening allergic and skin reactions. decrease alcohol use. use caution driving or operating machinery. tell your doctor if you've had mental health problems. the most common side effect is nausea. talk to your doctor about chantix.

we have already broadcast a loft sad numbers today. but this might be the most surprising number especially looking a lot of the news coverage out there right now. brand-new polling shows that nearly two-thirds of americans do not support reopening the country at this time. it's an abc news/ipsos polls it

shows the risk to public health. viewpoints are sharply split right down party lines. 29% of democrats say reopening is simply not worth the public health cost right now. whereas only 35% of republicans agree. in arizona, the governor has pushed businesses to reopen even as the state has experienced its three deadliest days in a row, just this week, and this week the state's health department stopped the work of an expert panel that predicted the outbreak's peak was still weeks away only to reverse course when word of that story got out. it's a mess and joining us now from phoenix, nbc's von hilyard. we've been covering both of

these stories the expert panel that was temporarily sidelined and the numbers out of that state with we have to note that every time, a high population of seniors. >> reporter: yeah, this has been a difficult week here, brian. it started back on monday when governor doug ducey, the republican governor unexpectly announced that business retail locations would be able to open this friday, dine-in services would be able to begin services this upcoming monday. the following day is when president trump flew in on air force one on that business, around that time that the story started to become clear that the state of arizona, the arizona department of health services had actually corresponded with this group of 22 university professors, from arizona state university a and the university of arizona, day could pause their work. 222 professors had been building

up to modeling to see where the peak here in arizona was going to hit. that's high on monday night they were surprised to receive word that their work was no longer needed. after much blowback, just yesterday's afternoon, they say they were going to begin, quote, an ongoing partnership again with those university professors who said they were going to continue their work. their latest modeling had predicted that arizona wouldn't have hit its peak until the middle of may, or late may, conversations taking place like this around the country. here in arizona, the last four days have been the four single-highest death toll days that the state of arizona has accounted for. despite the temperature, the opening of businesses, now you're seeing the highest number of deaths here in arizona. we're here at this grand avenue records, i've been talking with store owners throughout the

week, we were with a hair stylist this morning, there's an acknowledgment that more than 500,000 arizonians have already filed for unemployment claims. the owner here was just telling me, he's really in a tough spot. he's only opening up his store by appointment only. an hour for folks one at a time to look at the albums. in the last two months, he's lost about $30,000, $40,000 worth of commitments, he's also a deejay, a merchandise salesman, this has been tough. he received about $400,000 federal money to support his business. these are the tough conversations, not only economically but arizona continues to see the death toll rise. brian and nicolle. >> vaughn hillyard, thank you for your reports.

joining us is medical contributor and internal medicine physician, dr. lippy roye, i have a question about the partnership believing staying home outweighs turning back the economy and other than climate change and what we should do to address climate change, can you think of another issue in the health and science space that has such a partisan divide. >> you know, nicolle and brian, so good to be with you again. i sometimes wonder, in the medical and public health fields, we always try to rely on evidence, on data in all of our clinical judgments and, you know, there are certain health issues unfortunately that i think have been politicized in the past, gun violence and safety, right, as doctors we're

seeing that as a health issue, and really now with this, i mean, the data that you just put up there is really stark in terms of the political party affiliation and my message and a message as medical professionals, this virus, the enemy is a virus right now, it does not care about political affiliation, race, gender, or religion. just doesn't care. if anything, we're creating the perfect environment for this virus to thrive, because the baseline is a human species that has zero immunity to this virus. in addition, we're making life easier for the virus because we congrega congregate, because we're still not universally practicing social distancing and as a result, we're just creating a perfect environment for this virus to thrive and make us sick and unfortunately kill many of

us dr. roy,rning about who's most susceptible? new york governor issued data at the beginning of the week about most of the people who are dying at least this week in new york, what an incredible sentence to utter, are not people that are frontline workers, that was surprising, they were either unemployed americans or older americans, what do we know now about who's getting sick and who's at risk of losing their life? >> you might be referring to the data that governor cuomo cited about 66% of the deaths were unfortunately from people who came from home, and so part of that is surprising, i guess a part of it is not. we need a lot more data to really understand the background of each of those individuals. a part of it might be is the fact that we as the healthcare professional, we were telling people don't come to the hospital. i think a lot of patients,

people who were having symptoms that warranted medical attention, these people were just so scared to go to the hospital, by the time they presented at the hospital they were already too sick. another explanation when they were at home, they weren't properly social distancing, and they could have been asymptomatic carriers, infecting others. but still, we're still seeing consistent results in terms of older people, homeless men and women, people in nursing homes, certain key people as well as people of racial ethnicities, african-americans, native americans who are vulnerable. that data has not sadly changed. >> the daughter of the man directing this very broadcast has just at least virtually graduated from college, has a degree in bieology, he's going o

work in this field, among the lucky ones entering the job market, talk to me about the tracking that you do about the trends in medicine, we talked about it before, strokes in young people, the rise of the medical dynamic of something called covid toes. the rise of the experimental use of blood thinners in hospitals where they're having some success with symptomatic covid patients. all of it hopefully toward effective treatment. >> first of all, my congratulations to that young lady, to enter this health and medicine and public health, she's going to be changing lives. i'm very proud of her. to your point, brian, stay tuned. as soon as i leave here, i'm going publish my next forbes article that will talking about blood thinners. some promising results about

anticoagulation medications, for people who are experiencing covid infection and clots. so that's going to be coming up. to your point, brian n the medical profession, we are quite literally learning something new every day, it's a challenge, also fascinating, you know, we're acting really, really fast, there are researchers right now, brian, all over the world working day and night to understand how this virus is impacting both adults and now children, and exactly what it's doing and how can we combat this, it's not going to be one treatment, by the way, it will be multiple treatments because it's affecting so many different organ systems. >> dr. roy, always a pleasure to