yorkers. we wanted to show you that because it is a reminder about some of the issues we've been thinking and whether there is very enforcement. that's all for us. thank you as always for watching "the beat." including our great time with fat joe. keep it right here on msnbc. ep . good evening, from new york. i'm steve kornacki. today, another devastating day for americans, with new numbers painting a dire picture of the toll that this pandemic has taken, and continues to take. on the health front, it was more of what we have been seeing for a while now. 1.2 million people. have now tested positive in the united states. and 77,000 have died. that number, continuing to rise. on the economic front, today, something that's been anticipated for a long time is, now, here. just absolutely, catastrophic

numbers. department of labor announced today that the unemployment rate shot up to 14.7% in april. that means that 20 million jobs vanished in what has become the worst monthly loss on record. this is something this country has not seen since the days of the great depression. president trump reacted to that news, this morning. >> know why? >> yeah, it's fully expected. there is no surprise. everybody knows that. somebody said, oh, look at this. well, even the democrats aren't blaming me for that. but what i can do is i'll bring it back. >> in that same interview, president trump said the death toll could reach up to 95,000. in the face of this, he and his team tried to remain positive. >> as awful and heartbreaking as the job losses for the month of april reported today, much of that, three-quarters of that, will be temporary layoffs. so that, you know, could be a glimmer of hope. i don't want to downplay the hardship. but it could be a glimmer. >> i can tell you there is a lot of pent-up demand in this

country. there is a lot of people who do want to go out to restaurants, who do want to go out to movies, who do want to go back to their jobs. we see and hear about it every day. i don't think that's a problem. i think people can trust that we have a president, who wants to reopen, and reopen safely. there's no reason to be concerned because we have a president who always looks at the data. >> and, according to ben white of "politico," who will join us momentarily, he says a person close to the president is reporting that the white house is in denial about the true sail of the damage the pandemic has done to the economy. trump's democratic challenger, former vice president joe biden, delivered his own economic message today and took a shot at the president's handling of the crisis. >> trump loves to crow about the great economy he built but when the crisis hit, it became clear who -- who the economy was built to serve. not the workers, not the middle class, not families. donald trump's main measure of

economic process is the state of the start market and is the only lens through which he sees our economy. he irresponsibly downplayed to protect the dow jones average. so far, has cost tens of thousands of american lives and millions of jobs. >> economists at stanford and university of chicago estimate that 42% of pandemic-induced layoffs will end up being permanent. meanwhile, as president trump told reporters today in his view, the virus would go away with or without a vaccine. we learn the coronavirus has, again, penetrated the white house. katy miller, who is a spokesperson for vice president mike pence and also wife of stephen miller, who is a top advisor to the president. she confirms that she tested positive for coronavirus today. and this is the second confirmed case in the white house this week. one of president trump's valets, who is a member of the military, had tested positive earlier in the week. joining me now, jonathan lemire.

white house reporter for the associated press. john, thank you for joining us. let me start on that. two positive cases now, coronavirus cases, sort of in the circle of the president within the white house. what do we know? are these related at all? what do we know about what is he happening within the white house in response to this? >> steve, it's unclear if they're related. but it just goes to show you the reach of this virus. the white house, right now, probably is the most protected place and fortified place in the nation from this virus. from positive cases getting around. remember, everyone there who -- the president and vice president are being tested every day. senior white house staff, tested every day. if you are coming in contact with the president, you're being tested. now, some of the vice president's staff who work elsewhere on the complex, at theiz theizen eisenhower. today, after ms. miller's positive test, she was scheduled to travel with the vice president to iowa today.

she was not on that plane. six people who had contact with her were also pulled from the plane. and it goes to show, in some ways, that the penetration of this virus can even burst the sort of buttal ecause they haves to tests frankly the rest of the country doesn't have. and the president is trying to instill this sense of confidence. right? he resumed travel. went to arizona earlier in the week. talkling about reopening the economy. trying to push states to ease their lockdowns, especially in light of today's terrible job numbers, and he is showing images of being safe. won't wear a mask. his senior aides don't wear masks. he is afraid how it will make him look. but, yet, not only do not -- americans don't have access to those tests and, therefore, it's harder for them to feel securement being osecure. being out in the world. but even in places where there are testing, we're still seeing

the virus penetrate. >> we also have new reporting tonight from the associated press and they are reporting on that cdc guidance that was shelved by the white house task force. this making news in the last 24 hours. ap now reporting -- they reported on thursday i should say the 17-page document had been put on hold. and, tonight, the ap is reporting on new e-mails that suggest the decision came from high levels of the white house. writing this. quote. the ap obtained a copy friday of the full document. white house spokeswoman kayleigh mcenany said the documents had not been approved by cdc director robert redfield. the e-mails show, however, redfield cleared the guidance. quote, we would not even be allowed to post the decision trees. we had the team, kpaukted exhau they are, stand down. the cdc's guidance was shelved until may 7th. to, jon, take us through this. what we are talking about here are cdc guidelines. specific guidelines for states

to begin phased reopenings. the sorry,tory a day ago had bee white house task force decided to send these back for revisions. so the new reporting is this came from high up in the white house. what does that mean? does that go all the way to the top? what is the reporting here? >> first, credit to my colleagues at the ap for a series of terrific stories bringing this to light. yes. the documents, they provide very detailed instructions to reopen everything from childcare centers to government offices to giving suggestions for schools. and the new white house press secretary, you may recall, in the last week or so, vowed to never lie from the podium. indeed, this document did reach the white house, the head of the cdc had a look at it. we know that at least -- though it's not clear who officially -- who, in the president's inner circle, decided to put this on the shelf. we know in the e-mails, some of the medical professionals like

dr. birx and dr. fauci were copied on it. we know that jared kushner, the president's influential son-in-law, who has played a large role in the task force. and who, in the president's inner circle, has been really pushing for the focus on the country reopening. we know he was involved. chief of staff, as well. so it -- it certainly defies belief that it was just sort of a happenstance that these things were not enacted. this appears to be effort to put them away. to put the onus on the states, not the federal government, not the cdc, on the states, to forge forward with the reopening plans, which is president is anxious for them to do as soon as possible. >> jonathan lemire from the associated press, thank you for joining us tonight. appreciate that. in anticipation of today's labor department report that we were talking about with all that bad news. in anticipation of it, president trump repeatedly argued that week that the economy will bounce back quickly from all of this economic devastation.

>> we're going to do it again, and that's what we're starting. and i view these last couple of days as the beginning. we are going to build the greatest economy in the world, again. and it's going to happen pretty fast. >> i created the greatest economy in history. the greatest employment numbers. the greatest success in history. and then, one day, we had to close it down. we are going to beat those numbers and i'm going to beat them soon. >> as i said, that will be a transition. i think you could almost say a transition into greatness because i think next year pheno. a phenomenal year economically. >> and joining me now, ben white, chief economic correspondent for "politico" and sarah eisen. ben, let me just start with you. the folks you are talking to her, this jobs report, this unemployment number, was anticipated for a long time. it was preceded by weeks of

record-shattering unemployment claims numbers. so we knew this was going to be bad. and this is grizzly. the folks you're talking to. do they think it's going to continue to get worse from here? and, if so, how much worse? or do they think this is as low as it gets? >> yeah. steve, this is probably the worst jobs report that we'll get. we're not going to get another one, hopefully god willing. we're still going to get another bad one next month. maybe another 10 million. there is still a lot of layoffs that didn't get captured by this report but it is historic and devastating and understates the true picture of unemployment. that 14.7 number we've referenced, really when you include people who were laid off but not counted as unemployed because they weren't looking for work because you can't look for work because of the virus. the number is closer to 23%. so we are in a massive hole here. we're going to dig a little bit deeper. and, then, it's going to take us a really long time to get out of it.

all trump's talk about rapid, quick rebounds, glorious years next year is essentially nonsense. >> let me ask you to pick up on that. so much talk here about the supposed -- the possibility of a v-shaped recovery. that is the dream scenario, right, where it goes down sharp sharply and then goes up sharply. let me ask you again, as somebody who knows a lot more than me what they're talking about this and talks to people very smart in this, what are the range of possibilities you're hearing from the experts here in terms of best case, how quickly could we rebound? and worst case? >> it's hard to find an economist, steve, that will tell you we are going to have a v-shaped recovery. i think the most common answer you're getting right now from those who have studied the data and looked at historical patterns is that it's going to be a partial recovery. and some sectors, some industries, are going to recover a lot faster than others. if you think about industries like travel, like the airlines, like the hotels.

that could take a lot longer to come back. even restaurants, right now, that are starting to reopen in a few states around the country are doing so at a much smaller capacity. where they are evenly allowing 20 to 30%, based on government rules, of people to be in their restaurants. by definition, that means it's going to be a slow recovery because they're just not separating at fu operating at full capacity. there would be other industries that could respond further -- faster than slower industries. for instance, construction and manufacturing. those are some industries where you can socially distance, where you can get those factories back up and running. the only question is, is there going to be demand for the products? this is a consumer-driven economy. and i think the biggest question mark out there as to the shape of this recovery is are consumers going to have this pent-up demand that we hear about from president trump and the white house to spend, when you have unemployment numbers rising, wages obviously falling,

people scared to go out to retail and restaurants. and that's going to be key. what kind of bounce are you going to get in terms of consumer appetite. so critical to answering what the recovery looks like, are we going to get a vaccine? and are we going to get a real treatment, that gives people confidence to come back, and gives businesses confidence to rehire? that's why the market, the stockmarket, has been so focused on these kind of developments. >> i want to ask you about that in a second. but, ben, i just want to follow up on something we mentioned, too, early in the show. your reporting here, saying you're hearing, inside the white house, that there is denial on what is actually happening here, economically. take us through what you're hearing there. >> yeah. this came from a former senior advisor to the president, who i was talking to about these numbers, both, before and after they came out. his words were, they're in denial about how awful the numbers are and how difficult it will be to come back. not everyone in the white house is in denial.

i don't think larry kudlow is or kevin hassett is. but the president and some people around him do have this idea that you can flip a switch, and that employers will rehire en masse, and that people will feel comfortable. as sarah very aptly pointed out, coming back to work and employers will be ready to bring them back. that's simply not the case, in a lot of areas. and all the polling data suggests that people don't feel safe, they don't feel comfortable. they are worried about getting their jobs back. but they are more worried about getting the virus and getting their friends and family members sick. some economists i've talked to have said, like, 25% of these jobs we've lost are simply never coming back. the businesses that have shut down and will not reopen. and other companies who have realized they can operate with fewer workers, as sarah said, don't know what demand is going to be. so will be very reluctant to hire. but there is a sense in the white house, boom, we're going to get good third quarter, fourth quarter numbers. we're back in business. technically, they're right the third and fourth quarter will look better than the second but

that's because they're coming back from a cataclysmic drop of 40%. we're still going to be shrinking overall. so there is a lack of understanding i think in the white house of just how giant and devastating a blow this is and how hard it will be to recover from. >> sara, you mentioned something there because there does seem to be this disconnect between jobs numbers, unemployment rate, and the stock market. because i look up and the stock maan i might expect it would. let me ask you. does -- does that indicate that wall street is more optimistic about, long-term, what's going to be happening here? or does that mean wall street is operating in almost a different wor world? >> well, there are few other factors impacting the markets and you can't just think the market is the economy. but you're right. there is a major disconnect. and that only grew more stark this week, where you had the nasdaq, which is the dindex tha closely tracks all the tech

stocks, actually go positive for the year this week in 2020. it's made up most of its losses. and there are a few key reasons why. number one, steve, so much of the market right now is dominated by mega cap technology stocks. i'm talking about amazon, facebook, google parent alphabet, netflix. these companies are weathering the storm pretty well, and they just actually posted their results, their earnings, for the period. which shows a lot of them -- microsoft i would include -- are immune from the crisis and economic pain that so many other businesses, most other businesses in this country are facing. so those stocks go up. and the entire market goes up because they're so heavily weighted. they're so ginormous in terms of the relative market. there is, also, the federal reserve. pumping trillions of dollars of stimulus into the system, to try to keep markets functioning. and to try to juice the economy when we do go back to work. we know the stock market loves

stimulus. so, oftentimes, when you see a disconnect, it means that the market is steering the stimulus we're seeing from the federal reserve but that's not actually being felt in the real economy at this point. and there's two other factors i just want to quickly mention. the reopening of states and the reopening of industries and companies has put the market in a better mood lately. there is a lot of investors who are looking at china, which has seen a rebound and its cases go down and a stronger economy. and they're thinking that could happen to the u.s. so that would be the optimistic case. and, then, as i mentioned before, every single day, there is a new potential treatment going into clinical trials or an update on how swift these vaccines are being made. the ingenuity of the american pharmaceutical giants right now and the resources they are putting to fighting this pandemic are certainly giving investors hope. >> sarah eisen, you have set up perfectly by the way our next

segment. thanks for your time right now. ben white as well. really appreciate both of you joining us. zblfrmg coming up, as sara was just saying, more states beginning partially reopening. some of them not meeting the guidelines trump had set forward. how great are the risks here? and what can we learn from other countries who have successfully fought back against the coronavirus? stay with us. ack against the coronavirus? stay with us ories from amazing people... it makes me want to be better. it changes your perspective. it makes you a different person. see what listening to audible can do for you. -excuse me. uh... do you mind...being a mo-tour? -what could be better than being a mo-tour? the real question is... do you mind not being a mo-tour?

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order xfi pods to your home in a snap. or change your xfinity services with just a touch. all in one place. you're only seconds away from all of that on xfinity.com. faster than a call. easy as a tap. now that's simple, easy, awesome. welcome back. the majority of states in the country have begun lifting at least some of their restrictions. and opened the process of gradually reopening their economy. over the next week, several more states, kentucky, oregon, rhode island, and virginia, are going to join their ranks. and, today, america's biggest state, california, has entered stage two of its phased reopening process. and that includes permitting some small retail businesses to open for curbside pick up. including florists, bookstores, and sporting good stores.

also comes as california had its largest number of new cases this week. however, california has, also, been conducting far more tests than before. which could help account for the rise in cases if you have more testing, you're probably going to find more cases. this is a very complicated issue. the white house has provided guidance to states, suggesting they hold off on beginning to reopen until there is a downward trajectory of cases, over a 14-day period. or a reduction in the rate of tests conducted, that come back positive. the math here is complicated. and the guidelines for exactly how to calculate these numbers are not specific. "the new york times" analyzed the numbers and, in its view, quote, in more than half of states easing restrictions, case counts are trending upward. positive test results are rising or, both, raising concerns among public health experts. and for more, i am joined by mayor of phoenix arizona, dr. nahid infectious diseases

physician and medical director of the special pathogens unit at boston university school of medicine. and noah roth, commentary editor. thanks for all of you to joining us. let me start with you, mayor, because your state, your city, in an interesting position here. arizona is among these states that is beginning to lift restrictions here. restrictions, today, going to retail businesses. retail businesses opening up restrictions. next week, on restaurants. on in-person dining at restaurants. no you're in an interesting position because i notice the case numbers are up over the last few weeks. but the testing numbers are always way up over the last couple weeks in arizona. so i'm curious how to you feel about these restrictions being lifted? do you think it's appropriate? do you think it's going well? do you think it's too much? >> i have called on our governor to follow the centers for disease control guidelines. we have not, yet, met what we call the gating guidelines. we have some statistics that are helpful. but we are, also, seeing rising

numbers of covid-19 cases, as well as, unfortunately, we are, for several days this week, reported record numbers of deaths. the governor previously, last thursday, had said give us more time. we have to err on the side of caution and invest in public health. i supported him in that. but later -- a few days later, on monday of this week, he went in a different direction. >> doctor, let me pick it up with you there. the argument is made, and i have a heard it made in the context of, hey, if you -- if you get rid of the restrictions, you're going to have a surge in cases. and i understand, if you -- if you just eased every restriction, flung the doors open to every restaurant and every store and everybody flooded in, i certainly see the logic of that. but i'm curious, when you look at the restrictions on these reopenings and they vary by state. but a lot of times, you are seeing restrictions that say six feet of social distancing is mandatory. everybody's wearing masks in indoor settings.

you can only have 25 or 50% capacity in the stores. do you think there is a responsible path there to getting some economic activity going, while minimizing the risk of a spread? or do you think that, alone, is irresponsible, too, in this climate? >> steve, i think you said it. any time you reopen in a setting where most of us are still vulnerable, it is a risk the fact that you will see more cases. but countries that have done this successfully, they have driven the cases down with the shutdowns. get to a point where, then, they can deploy a practice of testing, tracing people, and then isolating those they find that might be sick. or quarantining those that might be exposed to those who are sick. right? it gets to a point where it's so few people. and the way they've done this, they've built an infrastructure that allows them to limit the number of cases that are occurring. many of the cases, many of the states that are opening, may not

have that entire infrastructure in place. but here is the other thing they have done. they've actually driven home their point for the public that it is actually part of everybody's responsibility to follow the public health measures. hong kong, for example, handed out 1.5 million reusable masks. you know, that really -- and the government's really put out these guidelines, in which businesses and individuals could innovate. so they could return to some level of normalcy. and so we're seeing some states failing on the first part in some cases, in some states. but i think we have to then also present the public and businesses with guidelines that allow them to sort of safely reenter society. >> and, noah, i want to bring you in because you have made some arguments here about the willingness of people to live with all of these restrictions, in many of these states. i bring this up because i have seen some of the data out there. they have that mobility data from apple, from google, that's out there. and it is showing, in a lot of these places, even where there are restrictions, people are starting to move around more. i'm curious how you think about

that. the willingness of people to continue abiding by these restrictions, even when they're still in place. >> well, unfortunately, i think it was inevitable that the urgency of this crisis would fade. and that necessity would intervene. and you are likely seeing that. now, quite a few people, i'd say the majority, are still relatively scared of the outside world. and aren't going to interact with it. but this is not an up or down referendum in which 50% plus one get a say in this thing. everyone gets a say in whether or not these restrictions are maintained. i think, as an adult, we should all be able to have a rational conversation about the fact that there are no good options here. that we have a series of bad options and we have to make a bunch of bad choices, and we have to make them soon. the total deaths related to this epidemic are terrible. the fact that we're probably going to see about a third of the economy, wiped out. a third of gdp in the next quarter. is an existential crisis for millions. we are now, currently, awaiting scientific breakthroughs to relieve us.

perhaps a vaccine or therapeutics that will work or a contact tracing system. but when you look at what actually worked, in places like south korea, which has a much smaller population than us, you are talking about using banking guidelines or banking record. cctv camera, which we don't have. putting people with mild cases in hotels that you commandeer and use as essentially isolation centers. this is a logistical, technological, and legal set of logistics that are just nightmarish to consider. and if you are going to sit around and wait for those conditions to materialize, you're going to find a lot of people, more and more every week, simply ceasing to abide by these guidelines. >> mayor, let me ask you about that. what you would like to see in place to begin the reopening. when you talk about testing, contact tracing, getting these numbers down. to get the kind of program in place and case numbers you are a looking for, do you have a sense how long you think that would take? and if you could address noah's point there. what do you think of your own

z citizens' willingness to wait that period of time? >> we, here in arizona, are at the bottom for the number of tests that have been performed. i have had the chance to hear from the mayor of seoul, in south korea. and they, every day, were performing more tests than we have over significant periods of time. so we just don't have that data here. we have seen more and more protective equipment become available. but i live in a metro area where we have 500 long-term care facilities. what i'm hearing from them is that they do not, yet, have the protective equipment. we're seeing the supply chain improve. we are seeing advances in that area. so we are really making progress. testing is ramping up. it feels like it is weeks away but we are not there yet. >> okay. mayor kate, phoenix arizona. dr. bahid. noah rothman, thank you for joining us. >> still ahead, the president making predictions about the

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welcome back. despite the news today that the unemployment has soared to heights not seep since the great depression. president trump expressing optimism that there will be a swift rebound by next year. >> i created -- as president, we had the strongest economy in the history of the world. the strongest economy we have

ever had and we had to close it, which is artificial. we artificially closed it. those jobs will all be back, and they'll be back very soon. we're going to have a phenomenal year. people are ready to go. people are ready to go. >>-l "new york times" notes mos forecasters expect the unemployment rate to remain elevated at least through 2021 and probably longer. the president spriktpredicted a vaccine would be available later this year. now, he is saying he thinks the virus will go away without a vaccine. here's trump today. >> how important do you believe a vaccine is to getting out of this? and what do you say to those that -- that -- you know, this growing -- >> well, i feel about vaccines like i feel about tests. this is going to go away without a vaccine. it's going to go away and we're not going to see it again, hopefully, after a period of time. >> what evidence have you seen that this is going to go away without a vaccine? >> i just rely on what doctors say. they say it's going to go.

that doesn't mean this year. doesn't mean it's going to be gone, frankly, by the fall or after the fall. but eventually, it's going to go away. the question is we need a vaccine. at some point, it will probably go away by itself. >> dr. anthony fauci has said that a vaccine is needed to return completely to normal. i am joined now by democratic senator tammy baldwin of wisconsin. senator, thank you for joining us. let me ask you, first, about that economic news. the president, there, saying he thinks by next year, this economy's going to be -- by the end of this year, the economy's going to be firing again. we stipulate -- all the experts seem to agree the unemployment rate is going to be high here for a long time. i guess the question i have for you is, when do you think this th economy will start to have some positive momentum again? does it just depend on a vaccine, a treatment, for this? >> certainly, it depends on all sorts of factors and part of it is leadership on -- from the

president. you know, the president wants to reopen the economy. we all want to reopen the economy. the president calls himself -- we need a real leader right now. the senate returned to begin work on those things. but the president seems to be avoiding standing up to the occasion and getting those really hard things done. so whether that's a national testing strategy, that can be followed through and implemented. whether that is using the full powers of the defense-production act for ppe and medical equipment. and testing. this president needs to lead, not cheer lead. >> well, he used the powers of the defense production act to declare meatpacking facilities to be a critical industry in

this country and there have been a number of severe outbreaks at those meatpacking plants. some appear to be suggesting the lifestyles of employees may be involved in a spike in cases. health and human services secretary alex azar said that those infections were linked more to the home and social aspects of workers' lives, rather than the conditions inside the facilities. you -- you have been calling for osha, the occupational safety and health administration, to play a role here with these meatpacking facilities in setting safety guidelines, setting sanitary guidelines, and enforcing them. what specific guidelines do you want enacted for these plants? >> well, first of all, i want to call out, negatively, the d denigration of workers. meatpacking is sometimes

dangerous work. and certainly more so today. and instead of blaming these hard workers and essential workers, instead, these companies should be living up to their responsibilities to assist with making sure there is adequate protective equipment. that they have protocols in place that allow social distancing, not only on the book flo work floor but also break rooms and locker rooms. not blaming their workers. that said, i have put forth legislation that would require osha, our lead agency intended to protect workers' safety and health, to issue enforceable, mandatory, emergency-temporary standards. to help employers deal with this pandemic. that would apply, both, to the

essential workers in healthcare settings, in first responder settings, in meat tps packipack and other essential businesses. but, also, as we look to reopening the economy, it would apply to all workplaces so that employers have the guidance they need. and enforceable standards to get ready for that. and this administration has not stood up the very agency that should be providing this -- these standards. and protecting workers. >> let me ask you about what you're trying to do here to bring about the enforcement that you're seeking because you've -- you've sent a letter here, with a republican senator. i think this is a very unusual partnership. josh holly of missouri and you have both sent a letter here asking that these meatpacking companies be investigated for an anti-trust violation. now, i'm curious. is this a tool? the threat of an investigation and a bipartisan push here,

which we don't always see. is this a tool to try to bring about the kind of enforcement -- standards and enforcement that you're looking for? >> well, this is, i think, an accompanying or companion observation about what's happened in the meat industry. we used to have far more meatpacking companies. now, these are behemoth, multinational corporations. in many cases, they've made decisions because of their market power, that have led to less safe conditions. they've closed smaller plants, consolidated into large plants where hundreds upon hundreds of people work in close quarters, in difficult conditions. and -- and -- and that consolidation is a key part of this. when three or four companies control 80% of an industry, that is a problem. and it has many ramifications.

with that much market power, they have a lot of political power to lobby for things like -- like orders from the president of the united states. and they also have, you know, there's other concerns when they become that big and that powerful. but they ought to be stepping up to their own responsibilities of protecting their workers right now. >> senator tammy baldwin from wisconsin. thank you for joining us. still ahead, the woman who is accusing joe biden of sexual assault in 1993 is speaking out now in her first on-camera interview. calling on him to drop out of the presidential race. we are going to bring you the latest on what she is saying. that's next. latest on what she g that's next. heading in a new direction. but when you're with fidelity, a partner who makes sure every step is clear, there's nothing to stop you from moving forward. athat liberty mutualsure customizes your insurance,, i just love hitting the open road and telling people

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welcome back. tara reade the former joe biden staffer who accused him of sexually assaulting her 27 years ago is speaking out in her first on-camera interview since biden unequivocally denied her

allegation last week and she is calling for biden to trop odropf the 2020 race. this is a clip released just yesterday. >> you and i were there, joe biden. please, step forward and be held accountable. you should not be running on character for the president of the united states. >> you want him to withdraw? >> i wish he would. he won't but i wish he would. that's how i feel. >> do you want an apology? >> i think it's a little late. >> the former vice president responded calling her claims flatout false. >> well, look, nothing ever happened with tara reade. believing women means taking a woman's claim seriously when she steps forward, and then vetting it. looking into it. and that's true. that's true in this case, too. women have a right to be heard. and the press should rigorously investigate claims like these. i will always uphold that principle. but, in the end, in every case, the truth is what matters. and, in this case, the truth is,

these claims are flatout false. >> this comes as a local california newspaper reported yesterday on a 1996 court filing from reade's husband at the time in which he mentions reade telling him about sexual harassment she experienced working in biden's office. he told the court, quote, on several kwoekzs, reade related a problem she was having at work in u.s. senator joe biden's office. she told me she eventually struck a deal with the chief of staff of the senator's office and left her position. it was obvious that this event had a very traumatic event on her. now, the filing does not mention sexual assault. and biden's then chief of staff ted coughman said he does not remember her. just a moment ago, the full interview was posted online. i am joined by ali vitali, who has been covering joe biden and this case. ali, so we just mentioned, in the last few minutes, i don't know how much of this you have gotten a chance to see. but this full interview megan

kelly did with tara reade is now posted. tara reade speaking out for the first time on camera after joe biden made the denial. are we learning anything new here? >> steve, i haven't gotten a chance to watch the entire interview. it's just shy of an hour, about 40 minutes. but i was able to get through the first 10 to 12 minutes of it. the parts we haven't seen are a lot of setting up who tara reade is. how she game came to washington sexual harassment allegations she's talked about. and of course then detailing the sexual assault. so i think in the larger context of that interview, of course it's interesting to see her out there for the first time. those headlines that you mention are important. she is talking about how she thinks that joe biden should drop out of the race, although she doesn't think that he'll do so. she also says that she thinks it's too late for an apology at this point. but i have to say i was really struck in watching the interview. having interviewed her several times over the phone, myself, by

how defiant she sounded. those were things that i had never heard her call for in my interviews with her. so hearing her take that tone, i mean, that was really striking to me in watching the interview pieces that we've had coming out yesterday and now today. i also think it's important what you mention about the complaint that was first unearthed by the local paper out in california. and there is a few pieces of it that i want to highlight for our viewers because they're important in the larger scheme of this because this is the first real moment that we've seen a paper trail established that backs up what tara reade has been saying. and i don't want to confuse people because this is not the same paper trail you and i were talking about last week. whether or not that complaint that tara reade said she filed with the senate personnel office in 1993. we don't know if we are going to be able to see that complaint. we're still talking with the national archives and the senate secretary about if we'll ever be able to see if that exists. and again, that complaint, too, is about sexual harassment, not

sexual assault. but there is two pieces in this filing as i was going through it struck me. the first, and i am going to read in front of me. her ex-husband in 1996, in this filing, says that reade, quote, related problems that she was having at work regarding sexual harassment in u.s. senator joe biden's office. he adds that she said she eventually struck a deal with the chief of staff of the senator's office and left her position. now, the chief of staff at the time was ted coffman. my colleague who's been reporting this story with me talked with coffman, back in mid-april, when we first started rortdi ror reporting this. coffman said he doesn't remember having these conversations with her. something he reiterates now as well. but this is a moment where i think those denials from the biden campaign and former staffers are now coming up against a paper trail. and i would point out tara reade now has a lawyer. clearly, she is starting to go on camera. president donald trump himself asked about this as these interviews come out. clearly, not going away any time soon.

>> ali vitali. thank you very much appreciate that. >> up next, father and son charged in the murder of a black man shot while jogging in georgia. people want to know why it took three months and video of the shooting for police to act. stay with us. ice to act stay with us e wrong getaway dri. they're going to be paying for this for a long time. they will, but with accident forgiveness allstate won't raise your rates just because of an accident, even if it's your fault. cut! sonny. was that good? line! the desert never lies. isn't that what i said? i just... when i... let's try again. everybody back to one. accident forgiveness from allstate. click or call for a quote today. and sometimes, you can find yourself heading in a new direction. but when you're with fidelity, a partner who makes sure every step is clear, there's nothing to stop you from moving forward.

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arbery. gregory mcelderry michael and his son travis mcelderry michael were charged with aggravated assault 74 days after mcmic hrks ara el killed him. it came after a cell phone video sparked outrage nationwide leading many to ask why arrests were not made sooner. nbc news correspondent blayne alexander has the latest from georgia. >> reporter: steve, here is where things stand. both father and sonmcmichael we bond in the wake of public release of that video, which sparked national protests around the country. now, this shooting happened more than ten weeks ago, but it was just within the past three days or so the public outcry and

then after that, the gbi came in and of course, led to those arrests within 36 hours or so. so there is certainly a number of questions but the gbi says they are not done investigating yet. they are looking into other people they believe may be connected including the person that shot that video and not ruling out the possibility of more charges and more arrests. now, the family of arbery says that they're certainly relieved about this step but say this is the first step towards justice. what they are looking for, steve, is a conviction here and they say they are not quite confident they will get it but keep pushing for it. remember, the older mcmic arhae said this was self-defense. he shot when arbery was violently coming towards him according to a police report. you're seeing protests in georgia and around the country and also a hashtag making its

way around social media. i run with ahmaud. a number of people hitting the pavement or walking 2.23 miles to represent february 23rd, the day that arbery was killed. steve? >> thank you to nbc's blaine yn alexand alexander. up next, we have an inspiring story. a survivor of not one but two global pandemics. t one but two global pandemics usaa was made for right now. and right now, is a time for action. so, for a second time we're giving members a credit on their auto insurance.

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it was just a token of our appreciation. and because we know how tirelessly you work. it meant everything to have you stop by. for the past two weeks, our incredible crew proudly served more than 10 million thank you meals to first-responders and healthcare-workers. it was an honor to meet you. an honor to thank you. and it was our honor to serve you. the biggest week in television is almost here. starting may 11, enjoy free access to the best shows and movies from favorites like hbo, showtime, starz

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survivor of two global pandemics. she survived the 1918 spanish flu and now the coronavirus. the jewish telegraph agency reports the 107-year-old working artist was admitted to the hospital in mid april with the coronavirus and now been discharged and is back home. an amazing story. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" is up next. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. from day one the trump administration is attempting to create its own reality, deny what is right there in front of our faces and replace it with some story that makes trump look as good as possible. it started on former press secretary sean spicer's first day when he falsely claimed donald trump had the largest inauguration audience ever, ha, ha, and it's continued up until now. president has basically been parading