there's mourning in america. today more than 60,000 americans have died from a deadly virus donald trump ignored.

with the economy in shambles, more than 26 million americans are out of work. the worst economy in decades. trump bailed out wall street, but not main street. this afternoon, millions of americans will apply for unemployment and with their savings run out, many are giving up hope. millions worry that a loved one won't survive covid-19. there's mourning in america. and under the leadership of donald trump, our country is weaker and sicker and poorer. and now americans are asking if we have another four years like this, will there even be an america? >> good morning. and welcome to a.m. joy. that ad from the campaign group the lincoln project irked donald trump so much this week when it launched an social media and apparently ran on his personal state tv channel fox news that it sent him into twitter at 1:00

in the morning just rage tweeting everyone he could think of. how dare they? do they know what i am? that's before it has a chance to start its full tv run and before we find out if facebook is going to let it run. so why so mad, man? i guess what's just got to be eating away at donald trump are the truths in that ad. the things that he can't escape with trump being happy talk about the economy or the stock market. america is sicker and poorer under donald trump's watch. if you were to take the 1980 ronald reagan campaign test are you better off now than you were four years ago hardly anyone who's not a billionaire could honestly answer yes. as this mother's day weekend begins there are almost 1.3 million confirmed coronavirus infections in the united states. 1.3 million. and the death toll from covid-19 is approaching 80,000 americans.

that is roughly the capacity of met life stadium, the home of the new york giants. it's also comparable to the size of joe biden's hometown of scranton, pennsylvania. i'm sorry. that is just staggering. it is hard to wrap your head around that many americans dead in just a couple of months. just, poof, gone. and beyond the overwhelming mass death, the deaths in nursing homes and hospitals and the multiple family members and meatpackers and even nurses and doctors getting sick and dying. the horror of people losing kids and parents and siblings, we're also experiencing another kind of loss, massive, painful economic loss. the recent jobs report from april reveals that the u.s. has lost 20.5 million jobs in just the last month. the national unemployment rate has sky roktsed to 14.7%.

that's the highest it's been since the great depression in the 1930s. take a look at this chart showing the changes to monthly job totals for the last 12 years. the chart shows that up until april 1st there were overwhelming increases in total jobs in the american work force. that red line that you see at the end is the beginning of the pandemic in march which showed a similar loss in jobs as the beginning of 2009. a month -- a few months after the apex of the great job losse devastating that we needed a graph with a new grid to even show it. all the gains that the obama administration fought so hard for, gone. just for perspective my mother was born in 1929. she was one year old at the start of the great depression. she would be 91 if she were alive today. if you were 60 today your parents went through the great depression. donald trump is 73. he was born in 1946.

his parents went through the depression. that is how long it's been since we've been in this kind of national economic catastrophe. now imagine that that catastrophe was happening under your watch, that stadium or that city was just wiped out and then imagine that millions more outside the stadium or that city were negatively impacted too. you would probably lose a little sleep if you were president. right? well, not if you're donald trump. because it wasn't the staggering death toll or the rolling economic collapse of the united states under his leadership that kept donald trump up this week. no, no, no. it was that ad. that mean old never trumpers were just being mean to him again. here are the tweets. i won't bother to read them to you. i'm sure you can figure out what he said and he continued his tirade at an airport later this week because flying during a pandemic seems like a good idea. >> i guess they don't like me but let me just tell you, these

are losers from day one so they should not call it the lincoln project. it's not fair to abraham lincoln, a great president, they should call it the losers project. >> me, me, me, me, me. now, for what it's worth, the lincoln project boegsed their highest day of fund raising after that ad launched online. but it's not the only way to respond. enter the hand of the king, the apprentice, attorney general bill barr who used this moment of crisis to announce that the justice department will be dropping the criminal case against trump's 24 day national security risk/advisor, michael flynn. even though flynn already pleaded guilty, twice to lying to the fbi. perfect. the justice department of course

claims not to have briefed the white house beforehand but trump sure did seem pleased though. >> i'm very happy for general flynn. he was a great warrior and he still is a great warrior, now in my book he's an even greater warrior. >> are you going to reach out to general flynn? >> i will. i think at the appropriate time i think he's a hero. it's a scam. it was a scam and a hoax. >> joining me now is rick wilson, a republican media strategist and author of "running against the devil." a political analyst for msnbc and steve schmidt, a former republican strategist. both rick and steve are advisors to the lincoln project. and steve i'm going to go to you first. i personally every day am staggered again by the death toll. i personally can't fathom it. it's hard for me to process the number of americans dead all in

one go in a couple of short months. and i find it shocking whenever i watch donald trump talk because he seems so blase about it. can you tell me what it means to have a president who seems so indifferent to that staggering loss but who flips out when somebody puts that loss into an ad? >> good morning, joy. he is so overmatched for this moment of crisis. he's overmatched at an intellectual level, at a mental level and a moral level. he has an utter incapacity for leadership and we saw it this week. we saw it with the settings he visited. so the two great crisis in the country before this and i would argue this is the third greatest crisis in american history. first was the several war where 600,000 americans died and we

saw donald trump sitting in the shadow of abraham lincoln inside that hallowed space between the engravings on the walls flanking the lincoln memorial of the second inaugural and the gettiesburg address and we saw a man who looked so small, so insignificant next to the greatest president, the worst president in the american history and then we saw donald trump at the world war ii memorial at the memorial wall where there are 4,000 gold stars denoting 100 american combat at the times totaling 400,000 or the americans who lost their life to save the world from fascism and in the background was the lincoln memorial and we saw a man just so small, so outmatched, so in over his head, and so it is that at the beginning of the third decade of the 21st century, in a time of peace and prosperity generally

speaking, the united states elected very narrowly to the presidency a reality television costar, a failed businessman, a conman, really a carnival barker, we had a real lack of imagination in this country for the capacity for the possibility of real tragedy. and real tragedy has come. and we look at that ad, it was just days ago that it aired and yeah it talks about 60,000 dead americans and soon we'll be at 200,000. this is a man who promised to run saying, i can fix it alone. i will make america great again. and his legacy will be mass death, will be suffering at an epic level and economic collapse. that's the trump legacy and he has demonstrated through this

crisis, he has exactly zero capacity to lead this nation out of this mess. and it will not be the work of one presidential term. it will be the work of many presidential terms. for there to be a season of american recovery, and we see every day his incapacity to lead that and in shortly less than 6 months the american people are going to have to decide in the most important election this country's had since 1864, whether the united states will go into a steep descent of decline or we can possibly begin to recover from the trumpian disaster that the country faces. >> yeah, i agree with every word of it. rick, it strikes me that -- sometimes you sit back and you think donald trump has the same job that abraham lincoln had, you know, that eisenhower had, and that is shocking. right? i have tremendous critiques of

these past presidents. i think some of them were incredibly flawed particularly on matters of race. the president of ukraine was a standup comedian and he stood up to the pressure of the united states of america, the superpower left on earth and said no to attempting to reintroduce corruption into his country. so a standup comedian has the same job as the president and he managed -- he's managed to stand up to it, to live up to the role. something -- donald trump meanwhile can't even protect his own staff from covid-19. here's the list of people that we know of just in the white house that have it. katie miller, the vice presidential press secretary. steven miller's wife. donald trump's personal valet and 11 secret service members. he can't even protect his own team. your thoughts, rick?

>> well, joy, i think as the major factor here is donald trump as my friend steve just said was a reality tv star who sold a brand of competence and leadership that never existed. it was only created in a teleprompter by a writer for a reality show and we have seen, you know, he is overwhelmed. he is unable to process this mentally. he is a weak man. he is a man driven by his egoand his finality and not be a desire for the country. and the distance between every other president -- we can love or hate and we can agree or disagree on tlheir policies, an whether it was bill clinton, or richard nixon or jfk or lbj, they entered that oval office having taken an oath to serve this country and there is a -- there was always a magic about becoming the president of the united states and they honored

the history of the office, they honored the solemn responsibility. and again, you don't always have to agree with every policy decision, but those men all at a fundamental level were there to serve the people of this country and donald trump is in the white house to serve himself. that's why this ad hit him so hard because it peeled away the illusion of donald trump. it peeled away the reality happy talk. it peeled away the constant stream of reenforcement and it told the truth about what's happening in this country. when ronald reagan ran it it worked not because reagan convinced it it was great but they believed it and it amplified that t. we are in a crisis without a president who can manage to lead this country effectively and they are scared and they are angry and they are determined to do something different and donald trump's reaction is the kind of thing that -- the way a weak man reacts to a strong crisis.

>> yeah. you know, just to take a bit of a historic look here on this, this is a president whose policy has been no masks, no social distancing in his presence, at house meetings here's an nbc news headline. two dozen house republicans in state dining room on friday afternoon to discuss the country's economic recovery from the pandemic. none of them wore masks. telling reporters that the protocol is put in place put a stronger emphasis on making sure we do the mitigation that we need to do. this president met with 90 some odd year old military hero veterans and didn't think it was important to protect them. it was more important that he -- it's all about pictures. and ronald reagan was an actor. not all our presidents come from

the traditional line but they all try to be president. this guy isn't trying. he's just trying to get pictures of himself looking like the president. your thoughts? >> well, i mean, i think he's trying toe be what he thinks the president is. i think he believe it is presidency is no different than a kind of all powerful rome that's bestowed upon a person which is one of the reasons he had so much contempt for barack obama. a black man having that type of power. but i also think it explains why he has the kind of admiration he has for people like vladimir putin and kim jong un and so it wasn't just a matter of power, of service rather but a matter of power and two other quick things i want to say is rick may not remember this, but we did a panel together at the outset, not long after the election. >> oh, yeah. >> and we kind of gaming out how

this might turn out and most of the things we thought about were in terms of policy and in terms of the guardrails of democracy being demolished one by one and you know, what the kind of bigger philosophical implications of this might be, but one of the things we didn't focus on at the time was is sheer ineptitude, the sheer incompetence that had attended every other undertaking that had defined donald trump's life prior to the presidency and what the implications of that could be in the case of a disaster. and finally, steve made two good points. we talked about the civil war and the great depression as these trials that have kind of become benchmarks for american leadership and i think that's important. we should also think about the people who prefaced those trials. those are the best examples we can think of. so it's not abraham lincoln in

the civil war. it's james buchanan and that ended up leading us into the civil war. it's not fdr in the great depression, it's herbert hoover removing thousands of u.s. veterans who were on the mall in the bonus march asking for release from their government. asking for help from their government and him using troops to remove them out of there. so we have the precedent for this. we've seen this and it's exactly the kind of bumbling inept leadership that precedes crisis of this magnitude. >> absolutely. none of them managed to have 20 million people in one month lose their jobs. very quickly, facebook responded to this idea that they're not going to run the ad that our other two guests are behind or a part of. if they find a superer pack finds it's false or partly false

it can't run on facebook. just really quickly want to point out that among their fact checkers is the daily caller. the daily caller is one of the people who decides what is factual that can run on facebook. this ad will run on this show and we hope that others i know that morning joe is going to run it again. thank you all for being here. i'm sorry we're out of time. thank you. american carnage for real. coming up, state run tv encourages the herd to get on back out there. that's next. get on back out there that's next.

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there's a lot of anxiety, a lot of misinformation, the experts have been telling us hundreds of thousands of people are going to die. now that we're learning more, herd immunity is our friend, healthy people getting out there they're going to have to have some courage and we've seen courage. we've seen courage in texas where people are defying

ridiculous orders. that's not easy and so i think that spirit, the american spirit, frankly, is -- is in full supply and ready to go if some of our experts and some of our leaders will just get out of their way, they're drunk on power. it's time to open up. that's my sense. >> is he volunteering? despite there being no evidence that patients recovered from covid are immune some republicans are using the notion of herd immunity as part of their argument to reopen the economy. but just because businesses like nail salons are reopening in some states not everyone is itching to back into society. even significant shares of americans, 30 to 40% who say they oppose business closures and stay at home orders still report that they personally would not return to shopping malls restaurants or church just yet.

tara, you know, i think from the point of view of somebody like yourself that has a business, the calculation is you reopen the business and then there are no customers and so then you're paying for the electricity, you're paying all the bills associated with having your doors open but there's no one paying the bills to get you any income. this whole idea that herd immunity that people need to brave death to go get their nails done, this does not sound like it's logical even people who say they don't like the closures they're not going to personally do it. >> the most interesting thing about the herd immunity statement and that people need to have courage he seemed to be in an underground bunker in his home. why isn't he on set with lots of people around him, let's get that herd immunity going for him but instead he literally appeared to be in some sort of basement or underground stranger

things bunker. but here's the challenge. yes, there are small businesses who do want to reopen. i acknowledge that, they're suffering, i'm in a fortunate position in that everyone who works with me can work from home. but let me tell you part of why they are pushing so hard to reopen, those that are. they're pushing hard to reopen because they were locked out of the initial round ofppe money that went to trump when they first enacted the ppp program, there was massive -- major reporting about how much of those -- that funding went to trump donors. in fact, one trump donor, a hotel chain got $100 million. despite the chain having over by well over 500 employees. meanwhile, small and microbusinesses -- now, remember, the majority of small businesses are microbusinesses meaning they have one to five

employees. those businesses employ over 30 million people in this country. those businesses were locked out essentially. it wasn't until this second round that we started to see some movement and some did get some money in the first round but not in the way that the program was intended or envisioned because you had the corruption that took place and that and part of that is what is putting so much pressure on these businesses. >> yeah, you know, that is what it feels like to me too, ron. let me show this chart again. let's put it up again. this is the 20.5 million job loss in april. it makes the great recession look piddling. that tiny bump down there is the thing that president obama had to drag us out of in '08, '09. and this tanking is what we're seeing now. wall street is like well, this seems fine. wall street seems to respond positively to job layoffs. you've written a piece that the market is not out of touch with

reality. it's showing how the economy has changed. the market is suggesting that the next economic recovery would not only be abnormal but maybe at a faster pace than anticipated. can you explain to normal folks out there who don't follow the h and the big does feel like corporations are opening up all the money, we'll take everything and the little businesses are left with nothing. >> i think those are two separate issues, joy. you have to remember that the federal reserve is pumping trillions upon trillions of dollars to stabilize financial markets so the situation doesn't get any worse than it already is. we were down 37% in the s&p 500. took 21 days to go down that much and there was much concern with the markets falling, the credit markets, the ability of companies to borrow money back in march virtually drying up and

even the u.s. treasury bond market, the most liquid in the world was not functioning properly. the fed intervened and put a floor under the stock market and you can do this reversely or not but companies that are benefitting trump, the stay at home environment in which we find ourselves, the shelter in place, so the amazons of the world, the walmarts, the netflix, the zooms, all these companies either delivering services on a contact free basis, providing in-home entertainment, they're likely to benefit on a permanent basis. some of them are large companies. >> you know what bothers people about this, the way the market operates is that it's rewarding companies already rich. amazon doesn't even pay taxes and so the challenges when you look at the fact that people can't get unemployment benefits.

people can't get small business loans. nine states have sought $36 billion in federal advances for unemployment claims. illinois who had a fiscal problem before the crisis tops the list. california the first state to borrow, plans to seek 8 billion. texas will ask for 6.4 billion in june and july. regular people are starving and struggling and small businesses are struggling and it feels like the banks and these big corporations are just literally taking all the jewelry and running out the door. >> i wouldn't put the onuns on the banks. this is however a massive failure of the federal government to supply to individuals as opposed to corporations. we have antiquated systems that have not allowed people to file

for unemployment benefits. there are some states that have been overwhelmed. not just 20 million people lost their jobs last month but when you add all the weekly jobless claims together the current unemployment rate is probably closer to 25%. this is a government problem and it's divorced from what the market is sensing is a huge shift in the composition of the economy. this is a failure of government to provide for people who are hurt the most for a wide variety of reasons. >> absolutely. tara, go ahead. >> i want to jump in from a policy perspective. it's policy. when we had the great recession, the obama administration not only cut payroll taxes, not only increased the earned income tax credit which is a defacto minimum wage increase in you're a low income worker. he also sent money directly to the states and local governments. those states and local governments then were able to

plug holes in their economic -- in their economies and they were also able to give businesses like mine, i was able to receive a stimulus grant. despite being a very small business i was able to receive a significant stimulus grant and i was given government work to do that. so that is also -- this is a failure and one last thing. i know you have to go, joy. one last thing. there is no universe under which businesses that are 20 employees are fewer that should be competing against businesses that are hundreds of employees. any new program has to account for that. >> yeah. absolutely. 18.9 hispanic unemployment rate. 14.2% the white unplace of employment rate. this is a catastrophe. i will show you the historically great news that produced clinching in the midst of a pandemic. t produced clinching in the midst of a pandemic

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>> the prize is rewarded to nicole hannah jones for a sweeping essay for the ground breaking 1619 project that placed the enslavement of africans at the center of america's formation. the board is pleased to award a special citation to iida b. wels for her reporting on the african lynching. >> ida b. wells paved the way for so many black women in this plo fe profession and nicole hannah jones, and ida b. wells herself were both recognized with one of the highest honors in journalism. nicole hannah jones was awarded the pulitzer prize for the

powerful project. joining me now is pulitzer prize winner nicole hannah jones and the great granddaughter of ida b. wells herself, public historian, michelle duster. i am so excited about this blog. nicole, i'm going to read one of the tweets that you tweeted out about winning the pulitzer. you wrote i've been trying to come up with sentences worthy of how it felt to be awarded the pulitzer prize on the same day that ida b. wells. the newspaper called her a nasty minded. i would not be without her. she never got the recognition she deserved when she was living sometimes even from her own people. and this came at a time when you were messrs.ly castigated for

winning. ted cruz probably most exhibited the pearl just gripping that took place on the right. pulitzer clowns itself, adheres to the journalistic principles. how good did it feel to dunk on those haters this week? i guess that's the classy way for me to put it? >> i really tried to control my petty this week and just be grateful for receiving this tremendous honor. i mean, as you know, this was a project that really unsettled so many people who have wanted to downplay the role of racism and slavery in this country's founding and in its dna so of course it is every journalist's dream to win the highest honor in our profession and i just spent the week being extremely grateful but also taking heart

that the attacks against the project, the attacks against me personally, it's just part of a tradition and black women have done this before. ida b. wells set the example of how to handle it which was to keep doing the work and that's what i plan to do. >> ma'am, i have 20 copies of it sitting in a box for giveaways. i don't want to give them away but i have them to giveaway because it's so important that everybody read it. michelle, your great grandmother really did, you know, for all of us, you know, she is an iconic name that made what any of us are doing in journalism possible. how did it feel to have the pulitzer prize go to her in this moment and you're, working on a book about her too. >> it was interesting because i had just been talking to my editor about the book that i'm working on when i got the news about the award. so it was just a surreal moment to see how much interest there is and how much respect there is

for her work at this point. it is very gratifying and well deserved. >> yeah, what she did was dangerous. at a certain point, you know, white men in memphis threatened to burn down her and kill her in it. she took risks so can you talk about the part of her work that focused on lynching? i think we're really thinking about lynching in this moment when we're thinking about certain news stories that recall it. talk a little bit about that legacy. >> right. well, she started chronicling lynching after three of her friends were killed. they were grocery store owners and business owner, upstanding citizens in the community and they were literally killed to get rid of the competition from a competing grocery store owner, white owned grocery store and so when she figured out that lynchings were taking place to basically terrorize is black community and it was not about

crime, it was about keeping people in a situation where they felt like they couldn't go to certain places, or do certain things and dare to dream and participate fully in our -- in our country, so when she disspelled the myth that was the common narrative at that point which was black men rapes white women and exposed the truth that it was really domestic terrorism, then you know, her life was threatened and her printing press was burned and she was exiled from the south. >> yeah. and you know, nicole, we are in a place now where you have both people demanding that primarily black and brown people go back and work and get back on the wheel because privilege of the majority is being undermined because they can't get their hair done or whatever it is they want and at the same time people

denying that what you and your researchers and writers wrote is true, that as if to say there is no -- this country was not founded on this idea of anti blackness and slavery. that is wrong to say. how does that -- when you think about that, what is this disconnect? why can't people accept history as just being history? >> well, because we have engaged in a centuries long propaganda campaign to deny that we were a nation founded on slavery. and the way that you deny that then is to deny the ongoing impacts of slavery. so it becomes this thing where it just so happens that black people work in the service sector. it just so happens that black people are most likely to be poor or the example that we just saw in georgia, which is a direct lineage of the work that ida b. wells was doing which is white people kill black people in extra judicial killings and they said they did it because they say they were justified that black people were

committing crimes and we find out that it was a lie. so this is a very long strategy that white americans have used to deny the truth, to deny the ongoing legacy of racism and if you look at the response, you know, i've been writing about racial inequality for 20 years. i've never had the response from anything i've done until i got to the 1619 project. the negative response. and that's because the argument that you didn't defy our founding. most of the drafter of the declaration was an enslaifr, the drafter of the constitution was an enslaifzer and that actually matters to who we are? many americans can't handle the truth. >> history is truth, accept it and use it to grow. >> some breaks news unfortunately this morning. the music industry lost a giant today. the founding father of rock 'n

roll, little richard has passed away at the age of 87. little richard was a pioneer in rock music known for his bold on stage persona andsongs. good golly, ms. molly and send me some loving in the 1950s. in 1986 he was one of the first ten inductees into the rock and roll hall of fame. his career had an impact on the music industry. his style and artist trihas influenced countly musicians and his music has been covered by many. our deepest condolences go out to his loved ones. t condolencest to his loved ones. by many. our deepest condolences go out to his loved ones. by many. our deepest condolences go out to his loved ones. hey, can i... hold on one second... sure.

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this weekend is going to be extremely hard because hard. i had ahmad on mother's day. >> this would be a heartbreaking day for it arbury's mom. 74 days after he was fatally shot, his alleged killers were finally arrested. he we aren't for a jog frequently when armed men in a pickup truck approached him. gregory mcmichael said he and his son travis was an burglar suspect and travis mcmichael shot in the air inself defense. the video was caught by a second man. his attorney says he was just a witness and is cooperating. the arrest came asp outrage t.

give you a minute, the individually video is disturbing. here it is. despite that chilling video, one of the initial prosecutors in the case who later recused himself that no charges were warranted, because, quote, it appears their intent was to stop and hold this criminal suspect, but the georgia bureau of investigations, which has taken over the case disagrees. >> i'm very comfortable in telling you there's more than sufficient probable cause in this case for felony murder. joining me now is lee merritt an attorney for opts it

his family. i want to go through this step by step. you had what looked from the video and just from the fact that somebody is taping the whole thing, which is this third man, like a convoy of trucks chased this young man. the person in the second truck said he was just a witness. were they together or was this man just following the truck? >> so we're not clear yet, because there was never really a full investigation into what happened. the georgia bureau of investigation for the first time is sending out agents to gather this information. the video alone, though, establishing there was an ambush saidup for ahmad, they were blocking his points of ingress and egress, and they were tracking him and they eventually

killed him. as a result, anyone who participate indeed that coordinated ambush is a criminal suspect. >> when you say it was an ambush and they blocked his egress, does that mean both cars were blocking him, basically two cars made it impossible for him to get away? >> that's exactly it. we see the video from the perspective of the car in the black. if you hear -- you hear him coke a gun. that's an armed man recording this incident. he doesn't even flinch when ahmaud is killed. he doesn't say o. my god or anything, he's documenting his role in this ambush. >> how did the video come forth? it's ironic to how close it was when trayvon martin was killed.

how did this video come out. >> this family has been pushing for the video. it was described in the police reports. they knew it existed. the family deserved to have a chance to see it. they requested it from the police department, from the district attorney, from the county commissioners a chance to see this video. it was obscured. finally an attorney who was -- who likely received the video while giving legal advice to the men involved uploaded the video for the public. >> i think for a lot of particularly black people, the trayvon martin case taught that it's not just police that can -- it's basically any gunman in this associate of nra world, there's a lot of legal protection for a gunman who decides to takes police-like powers and then gets into a

confrontation with an unarmed person. do citizens have the right to arrest another civilian? >> in georgia, citizens do have the right to perform a citizen's arrest, but there are parameters by which they can do that. they need to eastbound a felony or be in the immediate knowledge of a felony. what they alleged to observe is ahmaud enter into a property that's under construction. people often went by this property. he did not take anything from that habitat that was under construction. so as a result, trying to apply a citizen's arrest to these facts doesn't fit, because there's no crime. >> you described this as a lynching. there's no hate crimes law in the state of georgia. so that won't be part of the prosecution, but i've had

described it as a lynching. >> this was a modern lynching. look, they men could have believed they were protecting their community from a criminal element, but they can impugned criminality on the first black man that they say. so when you impugn criminality, and then you unlawfully use deadly force in order to stop them, and then you film it, brag about it and go home, and there are no consequences, that's by definition a lynching. last thing, donald trump has said there could be more off tape. he said the governor's going to handle it. do you have confidence in the governor to handle it? >> the governor's office was well aware of this video two months ago, the attorney general met with barnhill, received several correspondsens, and he doesn't call in the gbi.

my client forced his hand, and he assigned it to frankly one of the worst prosecutors in the region. so no. please keep us posted. woe hope to have you back on. please give our condolences from the show to mr. arbury's mom and dad. thank you for your time. more after the break. thank you . more after the break neutralize harmful plaque bacteria and help reverse early gum damage. gum detoxify, from crest.

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[ chanting ] back to the city sidewalk. [ chanting ] welcome back to "am joy." there's so much that's disturbing about the antilockdown protesters rallies in their states. they wave confederate flags, sometimes heavily armed looking like a gun-toting militia sometimes. they scream into the faces of police officers, who are also often not wearing masks. these angry mostly men, mostly white, spewing indignation are becoming a thing. it begs the question -- what

would the outcome and widespread reaction if black people protested this way? just think about the absolute freakout by the right when black nfl players simply kneeled to call on police to, ply, stott killing us. there is a vibe about the astroturf protests that look rather like something else. these signs deplying wartime rhetoric, the give me liberty and give me covid-19 and let me give it to others, too, it's my right. it's just the latest example of the asterisk we so often see next to the word freedom, apparently reserved on this to some people. the piece "new york times" writing -- freedom from

domination and control is one aspect. the other aspect is the right to control the presence and the lives of nonwhites. it's this notion of every man a king that propelled european plen across the atlantic with the idea that their individual king dom liberated from the king came with the god-given right to seize land, to kidnapped and enslave people, to round up japanese-americans in internment camps, and apply the immigration laws that stephen miller, donald trump and others of their ilk would love to bring back. every man a king has never meant every man. so here we are again, with conservative, at least among a certain cohort of white guys rooting itself in the idea that even during a pandemic, these screaming men and women have the

god-given right to get their roots done and order a steak at the restaurant and hit the golf course and the bar, and that those rights, which they claim were conferred upon them by god require a disproportionately black and brown labor force to return to work, get back on the while and risk death in order to serve them and return them to their comfortable lives. as we talked about last week with brayian cooper, it's the necropolitics, who has to live and die to get mine. this week we remind of another consequence, that some take is giving them the literal power of life and death over any black person anywhere anytime. it comes courtesy of a video that just surfaced this week showing the last minutes of the short 25-year life of ahmau ahmaud arbury, in february, almost to the day it happened to

trayvon martin eight years ago, was chased down by white men, shot and killed on a residential street in georgia. according to the police report, the suspects say they thought he was a burglary suspect and they acted in self-defense, but ahmaud arbury was simply out jogging, according to his family. we're going to play that video one more time now, a warning again, it is graphic and disturbing. if you need to turn away and not look at it again, now would be the time to do that. okay. [ gunshot ] what you just saw is

oppression. having to wear a face mask so you don't die of coronavirus or give it to someone else is not. joining me now is jilani cobb of "the new yorker." nikoli hannah-jones, jonathan mets melzel, and our contributors. thank you all for being here. i want to start with you, jilani, you worked a piece entitled "we are living in the age of the black-panic defense." and this resembles a suburban game hunt. i think that term is one that a lot of people saw when they saw that video. i want you to expound on that. >> that's exactly what they did. they got in their vehicles. they were in pickup trucks, one person is driving, one person is in the bed of the truck. they're both armed. they're coordinating a strategy

as to how to trap their prey and they pursue this individual around until they have him boxed in, and then as he is fleeing, trying to get around the car, one of them confront him at the front of the car and that's where the first shot happens. so there's so much about this situation that's horrific, it's contradictory and questionable. you can't say this definitively, but what it looks like is an inept attempt to orchestrate a cover-up from people who don't seem particularly bright and are acting out the stereotypes of southerners you would imagine you would hear on an upper eastside dinner party. there's nobody here who seems to have given much thought to

actual constitutional rights of in ar bury were. >> there used to be a notorious term that used to circulate mythically called nhi, no humans involved, which was a castaway term when a black person was killed. and one of these men used to be law enforcement. they are not law enforcement now, but one used to be in law enforcement. i want to play what the father of ahmaud said. >> it's hard to believe -- he just loved people. he was a good youngman. they did a lynching like that, they should have been arrested on the spot. nikole, you won a pulitzer

for the 1619 project. that sort of must-do permeates a lot of american history. now we arrive in a moment where the father of this dead man is reinvoking the idea of lynching in a southern state in 2020. it's depressing to think about that. can you just lay out for us where you land on that notion? or whether -- does that term need to come back in the way we're talking about these kinds of killings? >> we've started to -- this is not one of those cases. this was an extra-judicial killing. when i think about kind of two things that i thought about when i saw that video. one was the slave patrols. this is a dreg legacy. the slave patrols depend advertised any white person to stop any black person at any time and question them about their right to be where they were. this was a way to control the

black population, and we still see that white people -- i mean every time you see a black person getting the please called on them in the coffee shop or for doing regular things, it's a linea lineage, and then the decision that by normal things -- you cannot imagine a whiteman running down the street and black people hunt them down the car and feel they have the right to accost them, kill them and able to walk the streets for two months after that, and a decision and hand-wringing has to be made whether or not they need to be arrested. this is the legacy of slavery in this country and i think the terminology of lynching in this case is apt. >> you know, brittani, you were an original member of the black

lives matter movement. this was the point, but people tend to think it started around michael brown and other case where is police were involved, but it actually started around trayvon martin, accosted by an armed civilian. these states that essential indemnify gun owners. in this case georgia is a guns everywhere state, guns in church, everywhere you want, you can take them. in a bar. the district attorney here acted on that law, that stand your ground type of law to say that, in his view, he did not see the grounds to arrest any of these three parties. the other sort of connection here similar to the trayvon case is they know this guy. this is a former member of the team, a former fellow member of law enforcement, so it feels like a rehash of so many years ago. your thoughts?

>> in that letter we heard the same justification, that somehow ahm. ud attacked the men in the truck, instead of being seen as the self-defense that it was. it's the same rhetoric we have heard throughout the existence of black people in america to nikole's incredible point. it occurred that media outlets spend a lot of time ensuring that they distinguish the black men who are unarmed when they are killed, whether by a vigilante or police. when we really think about it what advocates remind us of of all the time, what the lockdown protesters seem to be telling us, on its face carry a gun is not breaking the law in most places, certainly not in georgia, and certainly where it is breaking the law, it is not punishable by death.

similarly, stand your ground laws do not apply to black people in the same way they apply to white people. we have to reckon with the fact that not only are they laws 23409 equitably enforced, they were never written with black people in mind in the first place. >> jonathan, you have in the same sort of news cycle the shawn reed case, which i think the arbury case has taken over people's minds, but shawn reed was livestreaming as he was being pursued by police, and livestreamed through his death. afterwards you can hear on the video, one of the officers who in this case i believe is black, well, i guess it's going to be a closed casket, homie, this discarding of life, law enforcement is viewing black people in this way that's almost not the way you view a person,

right? it's -- it's a weird thing you contrast that with the way you're seeing thinks white protesters literally screaming in the faces of officers, some of them armed to the teeth like they're going to war, in the face of officers and officers are quite casual about that. they don't seem afraid of them. they're not afraid of them, but they're afraid of any black motorist. i don't know if you have anything to add as to why that would be. well, i agree completely. i think nikole and other panelists are exactly right, there are so many other contexts that are important. one context we just heard is the recent hess torrie of guns in the united states and the ways in which all the rhetoric out of the nra and gop has created terminology like stand your ground, or what i wry in my book, the castle doctrine, the ideas that the white home is a particular castle, and just look

at the ways that rhetoric has been deployed to give the idea that basically white americans can use their weapons to defend themselves i think it's important to also note there's many gun owners who don't fire their guns. these are the stories we don't hear about, but i would say that the bigger context here, about the way in which guns have been constructed as symbols of the white privilege in a way, the ways in which guns, particularly carrying guns in public like this, has been constructed as a way of kind of showing a particular form of white authority, i think provides a lot of the context for a lot of these shootings that we are seeing, particularly the arbury shooting. i think that you're exactly right, there's all these histories that play out that we need to think about, but also, this is a moment where there are a lot of guns in society, and

president trump on down is given message that the regular rules don't apply. i fear this is the one shooting caught on tape, but i think there's other things happening in the country right now. >> curt, you know, listen, the last time the nra was for gun patrol was when the black panthers were carrying guns, then they were like, wait a minute, we need gun control. so you have people who think it is a good idea to go in public shopping with a klan hood on. i don't know what kind of message that person was sending -- i don't know what the message is they think they were sending by doing this, and then you have the fact that -- i was not on a call, but a zoom sort of town hall with define america this week, talking about the fact that a lot of asian-americans where they have gone from being singled out as the model minority to finding out what black people's lives

are like in terms of harassment, the pain being inflected, but blamed for the pandemic, and facing harassment, violence. the fact that it isn't new, this country interned japanese-americans in this country, perfectly legally rounded them up, put them in lockdown. so it isn't new, but it is coming back as a thing. >> yeah, it is, joy, i think every time i've done your program, particularly since, you know, when i left working with breitbart, bannon, made that transition of becoming a democrat, how often i get directed at me from angry white men, sending me threats, yew racist language, and particular in the time of coronavirus, where trump started uses the chinese virus and even blamed

rhetoric that he is embracing now, how that has turned and inspired his legion of white followers, when they're on the subways, when they're at the grocery stores, that things are directed at them. again, it's like this odd pathology that oak to say these things to other human beings. it's okay to hop in the back up your pickup truck and hunt another human being down and execute him and film it for reasons that are beyond understanding. i think you and i both know if the situation were reversed, if a group of black people hopped in their suvs and trucks and shot a white guy, i don't think there would be people recusing them photographs from the case in georgia. there wouldn't be a wait of two months before action. we've seen this double standard play out. all of this is fueled by the rise of trumpism, fueled by the fact that the most powerful

person in the world views minorities and people of color as second-class citizens. every policy he has supported and imposed on the american people is designed to elevate white people and keep people of color down, you know, somewhere else. >> yeah. i will note that even some people like to pretend the black panthers were some bogeyman. we are out of time. we're up against a potential cuomo press conference, but one more time, i want to hold up this. "new york times" magazine piece, "the 1619 project." i also want to recommend something, adam serwith. wer piece in "the atlantic." and thank you all. more "am joy" after the break.

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hi, joy. how are you for. >> i amover jody s. overwhelmed. >> when it first happened, i was so concerned, i went to my school and volunteered the first two weeks passing out chromebooks. >> i've tried to transmit my classroom into the remote environment. >> you know, if i ever get too down and out, i'm going to have to tune in. following the covid-19 outbreak, teachers have been forced to turn to remote and online learning to safely teach their students.

they got a surprise from president barack obama on wednesday during teacher precious week. the current white house could help these very teachers the white house called contracts guidelines. and rejected the guidelines. wait for it. joining any is dr. richard besser, and former acting director of the cdc. dr. nadia, nursing professor at boston college, and dr. rob davidson, executive director of the committee to protect medicare. let's start with dr. besser. is it normal for an administration to oppose it's on cdc's guidelines?

>> there's nothing about going on what i would call normal. cdc's role as the nation's lead public health agency is to develop guidance. yes, guidance does get reviewed to make sure it's consist aren't with other policy. that's what states are looking for right now. . and the new york -- the guidelines that the white house has rejected -- separating children at school and camps into groups that should not mix

throughout the day, and the white house's, you know, sort of what they don't like, the revisions they want are saying guidance in rural tennessee shouldn't be the same as guidance in urban new york city. their objection is they need to be customized for how rural a community is? i don't get it. do you? >> right. one primary premise public health is one of the biggest predictors of your health is your zip code. local context certainly matters, but that local context lives inside a larger context. that's a national context. we definitely need national guidelines to help us understand how the we can reopen local context. i think it's short-sighted let

me play a bit of him. this is talking about the economy, the thing he cares about the most and more deaths. take a listen. >> will the nation just accept the idea that by reopening, there will be more cases? >> i call these people and i'm calling the nation warriors. hopefully that won't be the case, but it could well be the case. we can't have the country -- the country won't stand it. it's not sustainable. if somebody lost somebody, a parent, a wife, or a husband or, you know, any brother or sister, if you lost someone you can never make up for that by saying you're going to have a great year next year economically. so you can never do that, but i will say from an economic standpoint, i think next year will be a very big year. >> you can't make up for it by

saying there will be a great economy, but -- dr. davidson, do you think children should be considered warriors, and risk their teachers dies, so their parents can get a great economy back? >> frankly we cannot have an economic recovery pout truly addressing the health people. in michigan we have a governor who's put out a 17-page six-step plan people telling people to stay home and follow their governor's direction, and we need them to utilize the dpa to get the testing. that's all we need. other states might need more brau their governors aren't doing the great job that governor whit mer is, but we're

asking for minimal, and to sackries figh-- >> dr. besser, we have sort of on the screen the case with the most cases it makes spence people lynn in more confined circumstances. does it make sense that because of that the guideline should be different in every state? does the virus act differently in a rural state? should it be different in a state that's sparse? >> i work at cdc for 13 years and was involved in guidance. four of those years were for emergency preparedness and response, what you want to see

is an over-arching national strategy and plan, with very specification guidance so states will know what to do, but it's applied differently in states. in a state that's in phase one, which is just having 14 days of declining cases, they'll be doing something very differently than a state that hasn't seen any decline at all, or a state that's been seeing six or eight weeks of decline. no states are seeing that yet, but you have national guidelines, and -- i'm on the regional governor's group for seven states in the northeast, and we're working to coordinate, because things like mass transit cut across states, but what you would like to see is rather than things being decided regionally is a national plan that regions, and then individual states can apply. that's what this guidance from cdc is doing. it was something that states were looking for, and hopefully at some point it will see light of day so it can be used across the nation.

they could apply it to their own situation? >> exactly. new york city has seen this in a different trajectory than, saying, kansas city. it doesn't mean that at some point kansas city isn't going to be in the 15i78 predicament as new york city and will have to change. having the national guidelines -- the cdc guidelines break it down by phase, so it would be a very useful tool. doctor, we had on this mo a couple -- an american woman and her italian boyfriend from italy

early on. i will never forget her saying you guys are two weeks out from being where we are in italy. in italy at that point, the whole northern region was completely locked down, soon the whole country was locked down. now they have 217,185, we have 1.2 million -- are we heading out? well, we'll ask you that another time. here's cuomo. it means in new york, we've been following the facts, the data, the science we make our decision based on the facts. the total hospitalization rate has dropped. the sbub base rate has dropped.

or people who are in a hospital and test positive. that's down to 572. 2 hasn't been at that level since we started back march 20, march 21, so that is welcome news. this is not welcome news. this has been heartbreaking every day. 226 deaths, 226 families, and you see how that number has been infuriatingly constant, 226 is where we were five days ago so we would like to see that number drops at a far faster rate than

it has been dropping. despite everybody our health care system could do, right? the best nursing, the best doctors, the best equipment. so it's and to the extent there's some peace in that, then we're looking for peace wherever we can. that is the issue on how the covid virus may affect unions people, very young people.

we had thought initially, and again so many of what the initial information we had turned out not to be correct or turned out to be modified we were laboring under the impression that young people were not affected. that was actually good news, right? the vulnerable populations were older people, people with co-morbidi co-morbidities, but one of the good news is young people were not affected. we're not so sure that is the affect anymore. toddler, elementary school children are presenting symptoms similar to kawasaki disease or toxic shock-like syndrome. now, these are children who come in who don't present the

symptoms were normally family with with covid. they're not in respiratory on distress. i think this might be why this is getting discovered this far into the process. it's more of an inflammation of the blood vessels, which can then cause problems with their heart. there are 73 cases that the department of health dr. zucker is now studying, but the illness has taken the lives of three young new yorkers. so this is new and it's developing. the department of health has communicated with the federal officials, the cdc, and the cdc has asked new york to develop national criteria for this, so that other states, other

hospital systems, can also be checking into this and looking into this. again, as it turns out, these children happen to have the covid antibodies, or be positive for covid, but those were not the symptoms they showed when they came into the hospital system. so it's still very much a situation that is developing, but it is a serious situation. the department of health is also going to be working with the new york genome and rna sequencing study to see if there's something about the children that may present a definable situation, but rest assured the department of health is on top of it. this is the last thing that we need at this time, with all that's going on, with all the anxiety we have, now for parents

to have to worry about whether or not their youngster was infected, and again, symptoms that is don't even seem like the symptoms we associate with covid-19, so we still have a lot to learn about this virus, and every day is another eye-opening situation. rest assured the department of -- i think it's fair to say the new york department of health is the first one that's been on this situation. against working with the cdc, but we'll also share with other states and other hospital systems, because it is very possible that this is -- this has been going on for several weeks and it hasn't been diagnosed as related to covid. so again we'll keep you updated. i know many people are concerned

about that, as they should be. a priority we've been working on throughout has been protecting frontline workers. we're very aware of the sacrifices they are making so many of us can stay home and stay safe. in new york we have to keep the public transit system operating. that's how many essential workers, frontline workers get to work. if we got to a situation where we had to close down public transit, our hospital system would have suffered. that's how nurses get there. that's how the hospital staff gets there. but our transit workers had to operate that transit system right in the midst of this covid

vir virus, and it never stopped. while everyone was trying to get home, trying to stay safe, they were showing up for work every day to make sure the people who did need to go to work could get to work. we've conducted the largest antibody test in the country. what the antibody test tells you is who has been infected and has the antibodies as they recover. that gives us a baseline to compare other groups against so we floe what the average infection rate is. we can then compare groups to that baseline. we really tested transit workers who have been doing the operations. we tested 1300, so that's a

large-size sample. 14% was the transit rate. we'd like to see zero, but 14% is below the average infection raid. so it means the infection rate is below the norm for new york city. within the transit workers, it's a little higher. but all categories are below the new york city norm. so that is -- that also affirms the news we have had heard on the other essential frontline workers.

>> it turns out that that's not true. 12% was the infection rate. it shows that the ppe works when we talk about masks and gloves, et cetera. it's not that nurses and doctors in those emergency rooms have fancier equipment, a more sophisticated equipment. this is the same type of mask that is they wear, so it works. new york police department had an infection rate of 10%. fire department and emt had infection rate of 17%, which is the highest of all those groups. we think it's higher because of the emt workers, but again all below the new york city rate of 19.9.

are not nearly as bad as the disparity in any other states, but any disparity is bad. we did surveys and data that show if you look at the 21 zip codes with the highest number of hospitalizations for covid, 20 of 21 have greater than average african-american or latino populations. 20 of those 21 zip codes. no do you it's a problem. we've mapped this, and you can see where people are coming from as they're walking into hospitals. part of the new system that we have xlempted through this is hospitals report nightly and we can literally map the number of

people then when you look into that, especially brooklyn and the bronx, it's clear that the communities are heavier, and when you compare that with the overall city rate, it makes the same point, that hospitalization rate, infection rate among the community, among the lower income communities is higher than the average. unfortunately, in a cruel irony, this is often the case when you look at disasters, emergencies, whatever they are, cruel irony is the poorest people pay the highest price i'm seen this across the country when i was at hud. you're there to take care of a flood or a storm, it's the

poorer communities that get wiped out first, right? it's the lowland, it's the land that tends to flood that has the lower value, and that's where the lower income community tends to locate. we understand why, we understand the health disparities, co-more bidities, but we also under that it's just not right. it is just not right. we have to address it. we saw the same thing with hurricane katrina, those people who were on rooftops were not the wealthy, white part of the community. they were predominantly minority, predominantly low income. the rooftops very often were public housing, so this has been the pattern. flint, michigan, the people who were drinking water that was poisoned, they were low-income

minority populations. if you even go back to 1927, the great mississippi flood, it floods the lowlands. it floods lower-income communities we get it, but we have to break the cycle. new york, we're going right right at at finding the reasons for the disparities and resolving them. we're doing more testing in lower-income communities. we're doing testing in public housing aggressively. which is a group over 1 million hand sanitizers, and today we're launching a new initiatives to address exactly this, which is to expand access to xhuntsds of color. we're partnering with north well health they're going to said up

22 additional testing sites at churches. it's a creative, but it's necessary we're working with churches individually and association of churches. and northwell will provide the testing in churches and communities of color. the churches will help us outreach to the community to get people to come in and explain why it's important for people to come in and get tested. we have 24 sites, some will be

opening the week of may 12th, some will be opening the second week of may 19th, but you see the coverage, when we add the network of churches is very brought. again, focused on these communities that we want to reach out to. these 24 new sites will be working with the current network of sites, and we have already -- and low-income communities, but when you put the church-based sites together with the drive-thru sights together with the juan-in testing sites and sites at public housing the coverage will be extensive. so the sites will be there. we now need new yorkers to go get the tests i notice, you know, i do this with people all day long. i feel fine, i feel fine

everyone can you feel fine and test positive for covid. you can. you can be asymptomatic and still have the covid virus. well, if i feel fine, what is the difference? because you can give it to someone else who will not feel fine. you can give it to a person who is more in a vulnerable community, group, older person, a person with an underlying illness, and they could be in serious trouble. you want to know if you have it, but so you don't communicate it to anyone else. i want to thank our partners who have been working on this, it's exactly what we want to do all through this, we want we don't want to just deal with this virus. we actually want to make sure that we build back better than before. i understand this existed for

decades. i understand it exists all across the country but not new york. not new york. it shouldn't be here. i want to thank our congressional leaders who is partners in this effort, who have been very instrumental in organizing the churches and putting it together with northwell health, especially congresswoman vazquez, andie vet clark from brooklyn and congressman hakeem jeffries, who we will hear from in a moment. i also want to thank the church groups. this is not in the normal line of business but i think it is the mission of the churches. they're there to serve the community, they're there to work with the community and meet the needs at that time, and this is

the noo the need at that time. so they have been extraordinarily helpful and cooperative. i want to thank reverend rivera and brawley for coming up with the idea and working with the other groups to get them to all participate. there are a lot of firsts, for all of us in this situation. so i want to thank them very much for what they are doing here. it's my pleasure to announce we're being joined by congressman jeffries, who is a personal friend of mine. he's a great star for the state of new york in washington, his voice, his leadership has pivotal, not just for new york, but for the entire nation. this is a time when we need the federal government to actually work and work efficiently and

work for the people, which sometimes doesn't happen in washington the people, the police, the firefighters, the people of this state couldn't have a better, more powerful advocate than hakeem jeffries, and the congressman worked tirelessly to put together this arrangement that we're announcing today again, it is a different type of partnership but we do what we have to do in new york, and the congressman saw the need, and he reached out to the church groups and brought them together to be where we are today. congressman, thank you so much for everybody you do, but especially thank you for what you did to bring these troops together. good to be with you. >> good morning of course, thank you for the tremendous

leadership that you have provided to the people of the entire state and in fact the nation during this moment of trial and tribulation. i just appreciate the fact that your leadership has been evidence-based data-driven, compassionate and comprehensive. today's announcement is just another example of that. we know that this is an extraordinary pandemic and it required an extraordinary governmental response at all levels of government. it's all hands on deck at the city, the state and federal level. the new york delegation is committed to continue to work with you to drive the federal resources into new york state to match the level of infection, pain, suffering and death that we have all the had to endure it's an all of government

moment, and of course an all of america moment as you have earn countried all of us to dig deeper. in a that spirit, we know the houses of worship, the spiritual community has always been there to help the community to get through a storm. our churches have been there, for instance and we also know that these houses of work ship, or churches have been there to partner with the state and with law enforcement organizations look the brooklyn district attorney's office through begin against initiatives to address citations that can impact the ability of people from

communities of color to be able to to get all of the opportunities to benefit from our full economy. so now at this moment, thanks to their tinged engagement and your willingness and it leadership, with these houses of worship and religious leaders appeared it is capacity to reach those in the community who need to be tested, because at the end of the day, this is not over for any of of until it's over for all of us. we live in dense environments, and have historically been underresourced throughout the nation.

so this testing initiative will be incredibly essential to ensuring that, and so many others, so thank you, governor, i that i ebc and the other coalitions for their initiative and their willing any to do what is necessary, the scripture says we may endure during the long night, but joy will come in the morning. i'm thank you for your leadership and we're all going to be there with the community until it's morningtime once again in the united states. >> beautiful. so well said. thank you, congressman.

some say churches are closed, but churches never chloro. they're doing their work and performing their mission. congressman, a big week for you, what you're doing in washington is so important to all of us, this legislation getting this country the aid these knee, did great for small businesses, allegation, but i know your priority now is to bring funding for working new yorkers, working americans, the police, the firefighters, the health care that have gotten us through this, making sure the state governments can function so we can do the reopening, and that we could not have a better voigt, we couldn't have a stronger voice, a more capable voice than up your and you're delegation fighting for us and the nation. you're making the case for new

york, you're making the case for america. we are just a microcosm, new york. we did get hardest hit in the number of cases, but you addressed the need here, you address the need in america. we know you can do it. god bless you. thank for you being with us. thank you, congressman. >> thank you, god bless you. >> thank. that's our congressional del grace, representing all new yorkers who are tough, smart, united, disciplined and loving. questions? >> reporter: yes, question about you and your fulellow northern governors. does it change, and if in new jersey you have some of the beaches open. i know that's them or not us. how does it make you feel? >> there's a lot that doesn't make me feel fine, but that's

i'm fine with. we said from the get-go we all have slightly different situations we talk about the numbers. numbers are different from upstate, downstate, you have a strategy that works based on the facts in that area we have to coordinate states, because by definition one affects the other states. that doesn't mean we have to necessarily do the same thing, but we do need to know what the other is doing before we do it, so we can coordinate it and discuss it. i understand governor la monmon and governor murphy, those are the two closest states,