i'm joshua johnson in new york. good to be with you today as we hear more from states on rekindling their economies and as we hear from barack obama. if there was any doubt as to what the former president really thinks of president trump, we may have just heard those thoughts in obama's own words. we'll get to that later in the hour. we are focused on coronavirus across america. nearly every state is reopening for business this weekend in some way, easing their stay-at-home restrictions. many of us desperately need to get back to work. the labor department says unemployment is at nearly 15%. that is the highest level since world war ii. businesses are under tremendous pressure to reopen. workers are feeling the pressure too, especially with so many unanswered questions. will they be fired if they refuse to go back to work? will they lose their unemployment? if they do go back on the job, will they be safe?

our experts will help us think through the answers to those critical questions. our correspondents across the country have the latest on what is happening now. pennsylvania is working its way to reopen under a color-coded traffic light system, red, yellow, and green. no one is in the green just yet but this weekend some counties are out of the red. as pennsylvania begins to reopen today it reported a thousand new cases of covid-19. nbc's maura barrett join us us from the bureau of state college, the home of penn state university. welcome. tell us what's going on there in state college. that is a community that has moved from red to yellow, and it's also commencement day at penn state. right? >> reporter: yeah. it would have been the big day here at penn state, about 50,000 students usually live here, but they went home two months ago. so as center county and state college move from red to yellow, certain retail businesses can

reopen and the stay-at-home order is lifted. but as i spoke to local businesses, the streets are pretty quiet without the students here so it's kind of an eerie, quiet slow time after these businesses have lost a lot of revenue over the past two months, joshua. it's kind of a tricky period heading into their slow season. >> what have some of the workers you've spoken to told you about how they're dealing with this transition? >> reporter: so i spoke to a couple small business owners here who really welcome the community aspect. there actually aren't a lot of corporate big businesses in state college, so a lot of stores are closed with their customers as they welcome their customers coming back. i chatted with margaret miller, the owner of three little birds boutique. they just opened up here in state college back in october and were relying on the word of mouth to expand their business, but margaret talked me through kind of the difficult decision she had to make to lay off 13 of her workers. take a listen.

>> i hear companies saying, you know, they're getting ready of these positions, this position, we're cutting back here, but in small business you're not getting rid of positions. you're getting rid of people. so it's trying to figure out how i can get them back but also that there's a business for them to come back to. because in the end, i can't sacrifice the whole business of 16 girls if i can't afford to bring back that one girl but i just feel bad, so that guilt lies heavy. >> reporter: margaret talked about deciding between laying off a single mom with five kids or a college student who's supporting herself. so here it's really not much about the lost revenue but making sure they're building back the community where everyone has seen so much hurt over the past two months. other business owners telling me it's going to take many, many months if not a full year to work back out of the hole that has been dug because of the coronavirus. joshua? >> thank you, maura.

that's nbc's maura barrett in state college, pennsylvania, the home of penn state where a virtual commencement is under way. now let's head to washington state. at yet another protest against safety restrictions, demonstrations ramped up at the capitol building against governor jay inslee's state v stay-at-home order. that order bans gatherings of 50 or more people. protesters are clearly defying that ban as they demand the reopening of businesses. washington state has more than 16,000 confirmed coronavirus cases and just over 900 deaths. nbc's dasha burns is in the state capital, olympia, where the bulk of those protesters are. tell us what's going on right now. >> reporter: hey, joshua. we're at the sort of perimeter of the crowd here trying to maintain some safety and social distancing, though the crowd is spreading out a bit. if you take a look here, you can see there's several hundred people here, maybe approaching 1,000, a lot of signs, a lot of flags, and not a lot of social distancing, not a lot of masks,

and not a whole lot of concern about the spread of covid-19. now, i spoke to one protester earlier this morning. he's a local business owner. he told me he did not shut down his business despite the order and he's here, he says, fighting for his freedom. take a listen to what he told me this morning. >> the stay-at-home order and doing the social distancing and your due diligence is kind of common sense. i feel that the governor has definitely overstepped his bounds or his oath when he took political office to uphold our rights. what he should have done is recommended, highly recommended that we avoid or potentially think about closing our businesses, but to force us to not gather, to not practice religion, to not be able to engage in commerce is blatantly black and white against our constitutional rights. >> reporter: a lot of people here are very concerned about the economic toll and also about that infringement that they say this is infringing on their civil liberties. i talked to governor inslee yesterday.

he told me that this is not going to change his course of action. he says he's going to follow the science, the facts and the medical experts in how he moves forward with the state. he told me that actions like this are biologically ignorant, joshua. >> thank you, dasha. dasha burns reporting from washington state's capital of olympia. in california, a slow partial reopening is just beginning. governor gavin newsom says his state is in stage two of that process. newsome was the first governor who ordered residents to stay home back on march 19th. california has more than a 64,000 confirmed cases of coronavirus and more than 2,600 people have died. business is brisk at the california flower mall in los angeles just in time for mother's day. that's where we find nbc's reporter reporting live. talk about stage two. what does that mean especially as it relates to the vendors behind you at the flower mall?

>> reporter: it means that some businesses are allowed to reopen with a plimted capacity and some screening protocol. one of the main businesses we're seeing reopening is the flower industry, and that is coming at a time that is critical for them during the year. i'm going to show you a little bit about what's going on here. just a warning. this is something that would normally be pretty -- something you'd expect to see on a busy day but under these circumstances, it feels a little bit odd. so this is the flower mall right here. you can see this is a line that's forming. people coming to buy flowers for their mother. at the beginning of this line, you've got people that are trying to maintain a little bit of social distance inside and trying to limit the amount of people that are able to go inside. but out here, you can see social distancing becomes very, very difficult. in fact, we were talking a little while ago to some enforcement officers out here. they said really right now all they can do is ask people to wear masks because enforcing

social distancing in these crowded streets is extremely difficult. now i want to stop here real fast and show you some of these bare shelves here. this store, what we're seeing right now is the effect of the supply chain from flowers. this isn't something where all of a sudden you can say things are going to be open this weekend, lets get flowers out here immediately. this supply chain goes all the way to south america. many of the roses you see here were growing in colombia just a few days ago. they had to get out here on planes and they had to be refrigerated immediately, so some of the stores have been unable to get those flowers to be able to sell today. and this is where it becomes very, very stark. this place is about $10,000 of rent every single month. this place is about $8,000 of rent every single month. for two months, they were shut down, which means they were owing about $12,000 to $20,000 worth of rent.

then in addition to that, they had about $30,000 worth of flowers at each one of these stores that they had to throw away. that's about $50,000 they are in the hole right off the bat, starting from scratch, borrowing money to try to buy some of these flowers from anybody that's selling them. at this point, those flowers are double the normal price. so the economic effects out here have been very tremendous. you've got lapd out here. they're also staged across the street. they're trying to monitor, make sure people keep their social distance. and you can see it happening right here live. they're asking people to try to keep that six-foot social distance, try to keep these masks on, but you can tell it's very difficult. for the flower vendors out here, this is something that they have been looking forward to, that they were hoping would happen, be allowed to open up before mother's day to try to recoup some of their losses. this is the most important weekend of the entire year.

it is their black friday here in los angeles right now. and they say that they are hoping that they make up possibly a third of what they normally make up, but this year it has been absolutely devastating. even still, we do see some of these flower shops with a supply of flowers. people are coming down, trying to buy flowers for their families, buy flowers for their mothers and try to show they them during this horrible pk. back to you. >> showing love to some of those businesses who still have rent to pay. gadi schwartz in los angeles. thanks very much. in virginia, volunteers are rallying to help the commonwealth deal with rising rates of food insecurity. virginia has more than 23,000 cases of coronavirus. unemployment is also rising. nbc's amanda golden is in charlottesville with the latest. amanda, talk about the groups that are involved in this collaboration and what they are doing to try to help people put

food on the table. >> reporter: yeah, joshua. we're here at the new beginnings food pantry, one of the sites being highlighted by the cultivate charlottesville food justice network. it's a collective of over 35 organizations here in the charlottesville area, working to tackle food inequality. now, these groups have been working for a number of years already with existing relationships in the community, but amid the coronavirus pandemic are really trying to heighten that emergency food response, helping direct volunteers, allocate resources, and really work with local restaurants to help do food deliveries and have already served over tens of thousands of meals so far. i spoke with two of the program's directors to learn more about this response they've been tackling. take a listen. >> food insecurity is an issue that we've been working on for a number of years and so i would say something like covid-19 brings it to the forefront for many more people. charlottesville is very well-known as being a foodie

town. it is not very well-known as being a food insecure town. so people know us because we have these great restaurants, we have these great farms and wineries that a lot of people can access, but many more people cannot access the food that's here. >> reporter: so as you heard, joshua, charlottesville is not typically a place associated with food inequality, especially being so idyllic, being home to the university of virginia. one in six residents in charlottesville were already experiencing food insecurity ahead of the coronavirus pandemic. 1 in 4 were living below the poverty line. this was an existing issue being further exacerbated by the coronavirus pandemic and it's just elevating the work these groups are doing, becoming all the more important in charlottesville. >> amanda, we should be clear, by the way, we've been using that term food insecurity. that's what the usda measures, the ability of a person to put a nutritious diet on the table

basically without having to beg, borrow, or steal. they don't measure hunger. the technical term is food insecurity. amanda golden reporting for us in charlottesville, virginia. much more coming up on msnbc. people in many states are dealing with a common dilemma. should they return to work or not? we'll see how financial needs and health risks balance for one furloughed worker in texas. plus, what rights do you have as an employee? how can you keep yourself safe if you do have to go back on the job? our experts will provide some clarity as our trip across america continues. g cold turkey. so chantix can help you quit slow turkey. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye. when you try to quit smoking, with or without chantix, you may have nicotine withdrawal symptoms. stop chantix and get help right away if you have changes in behavior or thinking, aggression, hostility, depressed mood,

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but my grandfather, who works 12-hour days, sometimes more, comes home, brings home dinner or we cook, we clean, we do everything. and without his -- without a job, we wouldn't be able to

survive. >> hi. i'm nigel snellman. i've been an employee of caesars palace the last ten years, currently one of the approximately 350,000 workers in the state of nevada unemployed. unfortunately, vegas has really become the new ground zero for this american jobs crisis. unemployment here is about 25%, which are almost, you know, a great depression type numbers. myself and many colleagues feel that to rush to reopen and just throw the chips up in the air and see where they land is a really not a sound policy or a safe one. >> the fear of the unknown, the stress of we'd like to reopen, we want to get back to work or back to work safe. we want to make sure it's safe for us, our co-workers and customers. several of my co-workers said if it's not safe, they don't want to come back. they want to go back to work, but it needs to be in a safe environment. >> it's up with of coronavirus' greatest casualties -- confidence.

you used to know what your job was supposed to look like and how to complain if something was off. this economic revival might struggle not just with consumer confidence but with employee confidence. so at what point do the safety risks of going back to work give way to feeding your family? joining us now is one man facing these choices. devin is a furloughed server in san antonio, texas. welcome to the program. >> thank you, sir. good afternoon. >> how long have you been furloughed? nigh've been furloughed eight weeks now as of march 16th. >> what are your main concerns about going back to work? >> my main concern is the amount of testing that hasn't been done in texas and, you know, being that we're handling people's plates and glasses, you know, i think that every employee needs to be tested. and, you know, there's a lot of i remember travel where i work

and, you know, if they reopen the airports, you know, the contamination could go both ways. >> so you've kind of got a couple different parts of this. one is just your job in itself, and then the other is travel to and from san antonio that kind of feeds your job. is that it? >> yes, sir. >> now, you told us that you are receiving unemployment. how was the unemployment process for you? was it simple, complex, frustrating? how did that go? >> i actually kind of beat everybody to the punch. even though i was furloughed on march 16th, i saw it coming on march 12th and sure enough, it happened on march 16th and i kind of -- i got right on it and i didn't get the stimulus the first two times but after that it kicked in. i do have other roommates that

it took them a month to get through. so i think i beat it to the punch. >> how are you doing in terms of making ends meet with unemployment? a lot of people have said that they are getting a different amount of money now from their government assistance than they got from their job. how is it working out for you? >> this time -- my job is seasonal, so this time of the year, it's about on point. child support is getting a little bit and taxes are getting a little bit, but it's about on point of what i would be making. that's one of my main fears is going back to work and not having consumer turnout and be working and not making any money. that's another spin on things that i mean that -- i'm stressed about it, really.

consumer turnout in the restaurant industry. >> i'm glad you mentioned that. i'm curious to know based on the folks you know and have talked to whether or not people you know kind of share your concerns about reopening businesses. >> yeah. i talk to -- so they're rolling back out the furloughed employees in phases. i deferred to the second phase, and being i've been there a while, i think my boss gave me that luxury. i don't think everybody has that. but i've talked to a few employees, are you making any money. a little bit. and are you all wearing masks? and, you know, that's another thing. the whole hospitality -- even in an environment where people are masked and gloved up i think in my personal opinion would create a little bit of paranoia just by going out to eat. i think that's what's going to drive the consumers to not want

to go out to eat. >> davin from san antonio, texas, i really hope things work out for you, but we really appreciate you making time with us to share your story. thanks very much. >> thank you, mr. johnson. have a blessed day. >> you, too, my friend. thank you very much. maybe you're like davin and have similar concerns about your future in the workforce. he's definitely not alone in this. let's try to get a few answers with our panel. ann is the director of center for global and immigrant health at ucla's fielding school of public health. doctor, welcome. >> thank you. >> and katie fang is an attorney and an msnbc legal contributor. katie, hello. >> hi. thanks. >> doctor, i'd like to get reactions from both of you to davin's story, particularly the common bonds that he has with what other people in the country are dealing with. doctor, what stood out to you about his story? >> well, i think that it's clear

that everybody is ready to find solutions and really wants to be able to get to work. but everybody is also very concerned about their safety as they should be. you know, we still don't have in place the testing, widespread testing available to everybody that we need. we don't have the contact tracing capacity. and we really don't have the nitty-gritty of how we get people back to work worked out. so it's one thing to have general guidelines, but i think that what people are missing are real instructions about how are they going to proceed, how are they going to protect themselves, do they have access to the masks they will need, to the testing that they will need, the real guidelines? and i just think that these don't exist and it's very scary for everybody. these are the things that are needed. the devil is going to be in the details here. everybody has sacrificed so much at this point. you know, everybody has been bearing this burden. and so it's very, very difficult

to be opening up without all of these things in place because everyone's afraid that we will lose all of the hard, hard gains that we have made thus far in keeping us safe. >> katie feng, what about you? from a legal standpoint, what stood out to you about devin's story? >> well, devin articulated a concern about the furloughed workers coming back to work, and that's a really important point, because he's saying that he's collecting unemployment, so from a legal perspective -- and states deal with unemployment in different ways, but if you choose not to go back to work because you have a concern about your safety if you go back to the work environment, some employers may say that you have deemed yourself to refuse to return and that may affect your unemployment benefits. and so that's a very important consideration. but when you are thinking about as an employee should i go back to work, there is nothing wrong

for you to ask your employers what type of safeguards do you have in place? every state has different laws that governs their employer/employee relationships, but joshua, federal laws like osha, so osha actually says that if you have a serious legitimate fear of imminent harm because your workplace is dangerous, you can legally refuse to go back to work. but it has to be a reasonable fear. it has to be of imminent harm. and most employers these days are deploying things like personal protective equipment and masks, and so you really need to look at it on a case-by-case basis. >> you bring up some really good specific questions, katie, about the legality of all of this. we've gotten some great questions from some of our viewers. you two stick around. we'll answer questions about our rights and risks later on in the hour. but right now we're going to shift to politics with some comments from former president obama. he reportedly did not mince

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our continuing of reopening america. here are the facts. in iowa, the associated press is reporting that more than a thousand workers at a tyson foods processing plant have tested positive for covid-19. that would mean that the outbreak spread to more than a third of the plant's 2,800 workers. new york is keeping a closer eye on small children with coronavirus out of concern for a strange syndrome. today governor andrew cuomo said three children in new york have died by this illness that causes serious inflammation. 73 more children have gotten sick. the precise link between coronavirus and these inflammations remains unclear.

in flint, michigan, two fugitives are under arrest in connection with the shooting death of a security guard. authorities had been looking for them since may 1st following a dispute with the guard about a customer not wearing a facemask in a family dollar store. in california, all voters will be able to cast their ballots by mail this november. governor gavin newsom signed an executive order providing more than 19 million registered voters with mail-in ballots. in-person voting will still be available. we are following a story first reported by yahoo news about recent comments from barack obama. the former president reportedly made those comments on a private phone call with allies. it included an array of criticisms of the trump administration including of the justice department's decision to drop charges against michael flynn, the former national security adviser. back in 2017, flynn pled guilty to lying to the fbi about speaking with russia's ambassador to the u.s.

president obama apparently said that doj decision deserves much more attention. >> the news over the last 24 hours i think has been somewhat down played about the justice department dropping charges gwen michael flynn. and the fact that there is no precedent that anybody can find for someone who's been charged with perjury just getting off scot-free. that's the kind of stuff where you begin to get worried that basic not just institutional norms but our basic understanding of rule of law

is -- >> please do bear in mind that nbc news has not independently verified whose voice that was. and to be clear, flynn was charged with making false statements, not perjury as you just heard on that tape. let's pick up the story with nbc's mike memoli. what more can you tell us? >> reporter: joshua, we should start by noting that having covered the closing years of the obama white house nor the for "the los angeles times," one of the questions president obama was asked often, especially after donald trump was elected, was what and how often would he speak out about issues and politics and issues of just fundamental values of the country. and the president would often say that, you know, he was reluctant to speak out publicly. he wanted to respect the norms of former presidents not speaking out in order to distract from the current president. you called this a private call. there were 3,000 obama alumni a

part of this conference call. it was one of the regular calls this obama alumni network has. on that call, the president talked about, as you just heard him say, one of his concerns lately has been that there's just so much volume of information coming out and concerning information about the actions of this white house that it often gets lost. he also talked about the concerns he has about misinformation and the impact that it could have on the fall election. he said he's spending a lot of time at home as are his two young daughters. they've shown him tiktok videos that have gone viral trying to discourage people from voting for joe biden in november. he used this call i'm told from participants to try to rally this large obama alumni network on joe biden's behalf. he said he would be out there often for him in the fall and it was important for his network to be engaged not just in helping to support joe biden but also to make sure that democrats keep control of the house and win control of the senate. indicative of not necessarily

what obama wanted to be known for but when that many people are on a call, i think they had to expect some of this would get out. >> president obama also criticized the trump administration's handling of the coronavirus pandemic. what did he say about that? i'm wondering in particular if he brought up this claim that the president keeps making that the cupboards were bare as he puts it when the trump administration took office, something that i think has been debunked more than once. >> yeah. i haven't been told he responded to any of the specific criticism that president trump has made of him, but what he did say was that even a well-run presidential administration would have had its hands full in dealing with this coronavirus and the ensuing economic fallout. but he called the trump administration's response a chaotic disaster. he said that this notion that has crept into our politics of selfishness, of tribalism in our politics has certainly been playing out in terms of how this trump administration is

responding. i should note our colleague kelly o'donnell just sent some reaction we're getting now from the white house press secretary kaylee kaylee mcnanne. she says president trump's response has been unprus dented and saifd americans lives, that while democrats were pursuing a sam witch-hunt, president trump was deploying ppe, ventilators, and testing across the country. we haven't heard from president trump himself on twitter, which is obviously his chosen venue. he often does choose to invoke the name obama on his twitter feed. today we're seeing him refer to a california special congressional election coming up. he's raising concern about the decision by the governor to pursue an all-mail election, saying that special election is rigged. he's also tweeting a lot about baseball for some reason and hall of famer tony gwynn. not sure the reasons for that. but let's keep an eye on his twitter feed in case he does

engage with president obama, somebody who he's often chosen to spar with on twitter as well. >> that one may be apolitical because today would have been tony gwynn's 60th birthday, so he retweeted a sports story about that. >> there you go. >> maybe just a cultural reference. mike memoli with the latest. >> thank you. three groundbreakers in entertainment have died including one from covid-19. roy horn, one half of the renowned vegas duo siegfried & roy, died of covid-19 complications. he tested positive for coronavirus last month. his stage career ended back in 2003 when one of his white tigers attacked him during a show. his partner, siegfried, said in a statement that the world has lost a great magician but that he has lost his best friend. roy horn lived to be 75. the music world is also mourning two great losses, producer andre harrell died of heart failure at age 59. his name may be unfamiliar but you probably know some of the artists he launched including

mary j. blige, and sean combs. he gave combs his first break. the third artist we lost had such a huge impact, it's almost impossible to overstate. the flamboyant sexuality of little richard helped create rock 'n' roll. you may or may not know this, but the lyrics to one of his first hits originally said, tu teut ti fruity, good booty. but he went through changes of his own. here's mark barger. >> reporter: at the dawn of rock 'n' roll, little richard was the wake-up call. >> my friends thought i was crazy, and my cousins thought i was a kook. >> reporter: the flamboyant piano player brought a whaling energy that helped define a new sound for 1950s america, so

new -- one of his biggest hits was banned on many radio stations for its suggestive lyrics. >> they didn't want the white kids to listen to black music. >> reporter: little richard's popularity crossed racial lines, though, fuelling a string of hits in 1956. but just a year later, he abr t abruptly walked away, denouncing rock 'n' roll as the devil's tool. he became a preacher. but he changed his tune five years lateer, back with more hits, inspiring other artists, including one band called the beatles. >> he loves that. >> reporter: one of the original inductees into the rock and roll hall of fame, he earned a star on hollywood's walk of fame. >> i'm blessed. i've stood the test. >> reporter: that included cocaine addiction in the '70s and a near fatal car accident in the '80s, but he continued performing into his late 70s. embellishing a legacy that made little richard one of the

pioneers of rock 'n' roll. >> you can imagine how many tributes are pouring in for little richard. mick jagger called him the biggest influence he had. quincy jones called him my brother and my friend. michelle obama celebrated his exuberance and refusal to be in her words anything other than himself. little richard's family has not yet released a cause of death. he lived to be 87. we may not be able to gather together. but we can grill together. oscar mayer invites you to take your backyard cookouts to the front. join us for the oscar mayer front yard cookout. enjoy sharing a meal together but safely apart, while we share a million meals with feeding america. and everytime you use the #frontyardcookout,

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making commitments in the next few weeks. congress must act now to fund such voting and states do whatever it takes to make it happen because people should not have to choose between their health and participating in democracy. >> i have employees that, are, like, i'm not going to be able to eat if it's four or five weeks. >> i have delved into my savings account for my employees and will continue to do so. >> we're told put people on unemployment. half my people can't get paid from the state. we've done everything on our end but it's not working. >> business owners across the country say they are worried about when they can safely reopen and how they can bring back their employees. it's one of the biggest dilemmas right now in missouri. this week most businesses there were allowed to reopen for the first time in more than a month. from nbc affiliate ksdk in st. louis, a report on how some

business owners are facing this dilemma. >> reporter: a sign of the times, welcome back, greets customers at the front door of magpie's cafe. inside donna, the owner, wears a mask greeting customers after weeks of waiting. >> the customers had been begging me, when are you open? when are you open? >> reporter: one of those customers is rachel wisdom. >> i called some restaurants last week that i wanted to go to this week and they were one of the first ones and said they would be open 11:00 on monday so i said i'd be there. >> reporter: space is in short supply. the historic buildings aren't ideal for social distancing, but magpie's has a system, seating people outside when possible, using coverings to show which tables are spaced far enough apart. >> thank god i have a huge patio because it's outdoor, i can spread the tables out nicely. we can still, you know, have a pretty good business. inside, i probably can get about five tables spread out in there. so i'm not going to be able to do much on rainy days because i don't have the room. >> reporter: but not every business owner is as eager to

reopen. one shop after another, these closed signs fill the front window. another reads open by appointment only. at the flower peddler, they have the luxury of space. one of the biggest if not the biggest retail location on main street. >> we've had six customers. >> yes. ? and they all want something and we're so glad we were here. we're grateful. >> reporter: business owners say they'll keep their new services like curbside pickup and delivery as they find out how customers react to reopening. >> it's all a big mystery, but i'm optimistic because in this business, you don't have room to not be. >> before we go, we'll answer more of your questions about coronavirus and workplace safety from masks in the office to mandatory testing. our experts will sort through some of the confusion.

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we've been talking about the complicated questions that many americans are asking as their

states' economies reopen. let's try to get answers. bear in mind our guests answers are based on what we know right now, may be different from what we said in the past or will say in the future but you should seek specific advice for your particular situation. ann and katie, let's start with you. question from david. david asks can my employer force me to take a covid-19 test before returning to work? katie? >> great question. usually ada says you can't even take the temperature of an employee but because of the pandemic status announced by cdc and world health organization, taking temperatures of employees has been legally deemed to be okay. covid-19 test may be a step too far in constituting medical examination not permitted under the ada. but covid-19 tests are not

conclusive, maybe practicing medicine without a license here, but they're not conclusive in saying you have the coronavirus. there's no utility behind doing it, could be futile. >> there are number of things about what's accurate or not. ada is americans with disabilities act. rob asks i live in texas and office recently dropped requirement to wear masks in the workplace, i wear one still but forced to be in conference rooms with up to six other people not wearing masks. concerned if i complain i could risk my job. do i have any legal recourse here? before you answer, come back to you doctor with regard to masks and what katie alluded to in terms of effectiveness in close spaces. context. >> sure. masks are a very good idea. what we know about masks, they allow someone to keep their

droplets to themselves. that's the key here. masks available to the public, not the kind of masks for health care workers, n-95s, are helpful containing speech droplets, i protect you from me, you protect me from you. this is a very important strategy in reducing spread of disease. masks should be recommended in all cases. >> with regard to legal recourse, katie in. >> absolutely, speak to your employer, document everything because as we've mentioned before, osha allows you as an employee to be in a protected workplace unless there is a fear of serious, imminent harm and don't have to be in union, two or more employees can speak up and join together to protest work conditions in the

workplace. >> one last question from lauren, my questions and concerns are about the future of response in the workplace. after hiv/aids in the '80s, osha put out guidance for potentially infectious materials. will we do the same for communicable diseases? and how will paid sick leave, job security ensure others don't get sick. lauren is asking us to look into the future for the law. >> crystal ball answer, can't give it. but there have not been a lot of pandemics issued by the world health organization. i suspect a conscientious administration would issue new legislation speaking to the concerns lauren has. >> do you think that covid-19 rises to that level terms of what osha had to adapt to with

hiv/aids? >> covid is a major threat to everyone in the united states and should be issued accordingly. can't speak to the specifics of the guidelines but it's going to have to be considered in all regulation going forward. and has changed the face of how we think -- how we think about infectious disease in the workplace. >> dr. ann rimoin and katie feng, glad to have you with us. until we meet again, joshua johnson, meet back at 8:00 eastern. news continues with alicia me menendez on msnbc. me menendez on msnbc. [♪]

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we've implemented shorter hours, so we can sanitize our stores from top to bottom while also restocking our products. but if anything, these days have reminded us why we do what we do. because despite everything that's changed, one thing hasn't, and that's our devotion to you and our communities. we're working together, in-store and online, through pickup and delivery, to make sure you can still get the essentials you need. and as we move forward, know that our first priority will always be to keep you and our associates safe. ♪ the story where the chances are low, and the cost is high. the sacrifice is real. it's all around us. but this isn't a story about how tougher times beat us. this is our comeback story. the time when we rally and come from behind. the time when we defy the odds and get back to work

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hello, i'm alicia menendez. we're following breaking news this hour. there's new leaked audio of former president barack obama criticizing the trump administration over their handling of the coronavirus pandemic. the criticism came on a conference call held with former obama administration staffers. also expressed concern over doj's decision not to prosecute michael flynn for lying to the fbi. take a listen. >> the news over the last 24 hours i think has been somewhat downplayed about the justice department