hello, i'm alicia menendez. we're following breaking news this hour. there's new leaked audio of former president barack obama criticizing the trump administration over their handling of the coronavirus pandemic. the criticism came on a conference call held with former obama administration staffers. also expressed concern over doj's decision not to prosecute michael flynn for lying to the fbi. take a listen. >> the news over the last 24 hours i think has been somewhat downplayed about the justice

department dropping charges against michael flynn. and the fact there is no precedent that anybody can find for someone who has been charged with perjury just getting off scott free. that's the kind of stuff where you begin to get worried that basic -- not just institutional norms but our basic understanding of rule of law is -- is at risk. >> the leak comes after a week that saw the white house try to pivot towards the reopening of the economy but revealed that two white house staffers tested positive for the virus. and comes after the labor department announced record job

loss for month of april. joining me now is msnbc's mike memoli. you have been working on this story all afternoon. what can you tell us? what's the latest? >> you heard the former president right there talking about institutional norms. there are so many specific criticisms democrats have had of the trump administration over the three-plus years he's been in office. one of the norms that democrats especially have, former presidents don't normally criticize, want to give space to do what they want to do. he's becoming much more active about speaking out about news of the day and politics more broadly. there's former obama alumni, 3,000 of them joined this call last night. with a call that large would

think the president would know this with a get out. drop that flynn case saying that's how democracies become autocrassies. also talked about concerns with technology and spread of misinformation, concerned could hurt joe biden this fall. daughters have shown him tiktok videos designed to suppress support for joe biden in the fall. purpose was to have the former president rally large network, have them stay engaged in the process and not just do everything he can as he promised to do to help joe biden but also keep control of the house and win back the senate and win

downballot races as well. important moment as we begin to hear more from the former president, even if it's supposed to be private. >> in addition to the comments about flynn, president also made comments about democratic leader s ship, speaker pelosi and president trump's us versus them mentality. what can you tell us? >> if you go back to president obama's final year in office he talked a lot about concern about the tribalism in our politics, directed to trump campaign but also the democratic party. praised speaker pelosi for it keeping democrats organized but chaotic response of the trump administration is symbol of this us versus them mentality. >> thanks very much for your

time. turning to latest job numbers, unemployment we've not seen since the great depression, states are looking to reopen economies asap across the country concerns about reopening too soon. reopened salons and barber shops. dine-in restaurants to follow. >> everyone is so excited to come back to work, this is our income, way we support our families. >> but just yesterday the state reported daily highs in both deaths and cases. internally modeling showed that arizona's peak may not hit until late may or beyond. it is clear your state's

trajectory is still on the rise. is it too soon for these businesses to be opening? >> according to the cdc guidelines, established a couple weeks back, until they were junked by president trump, no, we haven't hit it. we have to have at least two weeks of declining infection rates in order for us to safely say we're in the zone to open up. right now we're answering to political pressures and not to science and data. and think it's going to end up having a very bad consequence. we will end up in a second shutdown which i think will be even more consequential to the economy. >> there was a back and forth this week i was following. arizona health department announcing it's going to continue virus monitoring project with the university of arizona. after an announcement earlier in week it planned to shut down that work. these models have shown that peak of the outbreak may not happen until late may or beyond.

before the reversal you tweeted out the professors should continue their work. what do you think happened there behind the scenes? >> i think what happened is governor of arizona and legislature didn't want to reopen at the same time as data was coming out and science was showing this is not appropriate time to reopen the economy and spread more of this virus. so the governor basically shut down the study, and there was a lot of public pressure, why are we trying to censor science and data at this point and we were able to turn it around. but there was a severe attack on science. and it's reminiscent of what's happening at national level with president trump. and we i guess tried to do that here. luckily citizens of arizona weighed in and at least we'll be a able to know what's happening in infection rates. question is will the governor follow the science and data, so far that's not the case.

>> you're proposing economic assistance program for small businesses to augment the ppp program. tell us what's in your proposal and why it's necessary. >> last time there were too many big businesses that received the ppp program and too many banks at first went after the big businesses to give them loans. smaller businesses, book store with two locations just got their check yesterday. what i propose is simple. less than 50 employees, you're not going to go to the bank but get money directly from the treasury to you, based on taxes. you don't have to compete against big banks, business, hire lawyers or being connected to anyone. goal is sustain the businesses long enough so when we can safely reopen the economy, they're going to be able to thrive and move fast and get momentum they need to stay open

and expand the economy. there's no reason why mom and pop restaurants should be competing against ruth chris steak houses. they don't have the same needs. if anything the smaller locations need the most help, but from the last program treasury did, did not work out. and there's still many businesses, especially black and latino-owned businesses are not receiving any of the pp program. this is my solution to that. >> all right, representative ruben gallego, thanks for your time. >> thanks for having me. coronavirus continues to be health crisis and economic one. april jobs report shows the country lost more than 20 million jobs. record in a month. unemployment spiked to 14.7%. jobs affected most, labor department found biggest hit

among leisure and hospitality, including the restaurant industry. latinos being impacted more than any other group, nearly 19% unemployment, followed by african-americans at nearly 17%. like to welcome julianne malveaux, thank you so much for your time. when you look at those numbers, specifically the breakdown by race, what do you make of those numbers? >> we already had inequalities before the coronavirus, and these inequalities are just amplified. one of the things that 's very interesting is usually unemployment is twice that of whites. this time's narrower, suggests to me several people aren't being counted. most recent report, alternative unemployment, 22.5%. when you look at that, may be about 40% for african-americans

and latinos. data gives us some information, not full information. we know the situation is a lot worse than the data are suggesting. we are hearing there's looming threat of second wave of this virus. what volatility does that add to the job market? >> enormous volatility. president keeps talking about u-shaped or v-shaped curve, bouncing right back up, there's no evidence whatsoever anything is going to bounce back up. can't turn on the economy like a light switch and say let's go for it. reverberations for what is happening now. many states have opened up hospitality center but who is going to go when they don't feel secure? to restaurant or movie? believe it's not going to be me and lot of other people because people are fighting. you can turn the economy on if you want to, that doesn't mean that consumers -- 75% of our

gdp, consumers are not going to flock back with doors opened back up. until we get a cure for coronavirus or vaccine or something, we're going to see lingering effects of what's just happened in april. say bounce back up -- i don't see a bounce. i see slow rise of people having more confidence what's happen withing t with the virus and how contagious it is. >> stay on that point for me, when you talk about a slow rise based on confidence, what will it take to reach a level of confidence where you start to see it impacted in the economy? >> i think people need to feel like they can spend their money. most spending is outside the home. people are buying more things on amazon and other internet sources but as we said,

hospitality streer hospitality industry, airline, tourism, travel, people are not going to travel any they feel secure. it's going to take is something, widespread testing. we could create employment opportunities with widespread testing, checking, contact checking, all of that. but we don't seem to have the imagination to figure out how to do what other countries have done -- move quickly, close down quickly, test widely, then reopen. we haven't been able to do that. >> julianne malveaux, thank you so much for your time. >> hi, sorry. coming up, house speaker nancy pelosi is pushing to finalize a relief package, will congress be able to ensure it

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as the unemployment numbers climb, tensions are growing on capitol hill over extending food stamp coverage. according to study by the brookings institution, rate of food insecurity in u.s. is three times higher than in the 2008 recession. debate is heating up between republicans and democrats as line in the sand is drawn between the parties for long-term program. donna shillelagh, florida's district and former secretary under president clinton. next relief package, what coudou want to see in it?

>> let's first take care of the food insecurity. quarter million children apparently not getting enough to eat. we're united states of america, it's immoral to be debating the s.n.a.p., the food benefits in this country. first thing you do is make sure everyone has enough to eat when in a fight like this with vicious virus. do that first. then give money to state and local governments. teachers, fire officers, police officers, health care workers. we can give money directly to the states and local governments. my local governments have put out a lot of money, going to be in financial trouble, they need to be reimbursed for much of this. they're carrying a lot of the load for all of us. but they're the ones that fund the police, fire and emergency workers. and the janitors and the other

property service workers, and therefore we have to get that money out. and finally, we've got to get more money to people. and i mean we've used all these vehicles, small business, unemployment, unemployment in florida is a disaster because we had a legacy system that just didn't work. so we're going to talk about direct payments to people. already sent out 1,2$1,200, may have to send out money every week. we're looking at all of that. finally, if we really care about the elections coming up, we've got to fund the post office but we've got to fund the post office service, founded in 1792, before we literally had a country put together, and we need the post office. and we're going to have to put money into vote by mail, basically vote by home so states can make the adjustment for the next election and people don't have to take risks.

but let's start with the kids. my heavens. >> i want to stick with you on this question of food security. republican representative michael conway who oversees the supplemental nutrition assistance program, s.n.a.p. quoted as saying last time we did this, changes were sold as temporary, when unemployment improved, rolled back. that didn't happen. response to that pushback? >> you mean we kept the program for people that didn't have enough to eat? what kind of a statement is that? >> it does seem to be one of the core tensions as this becomes a partisan volley. i wonder looking forward what you see as other sticking points in next round of debate. >> i think suddenly the republicans are getting cold feet about investing more in the

economy, and we really have to invest in people. we have to think about the workers in this country. and we have to make sure that we make them as whole as we possibly can so they can take care of their families as we go through this crisis. i'm on an oversight committee that's going to worry about big businesses. one of the things i'm going to look at, if we improve liquidity for big businesses, they take care of their workers. we start as americans taking care of people, people who got up every day and went to work, taking care of their families. to debate about food for people in our country, i can't remember last time we had a debate about that. i don't know of a taxpayer in this country that doesn't want to make sure their friends and neighbors have enough food on the table to take care of themselves and their children. >> all right, representative donna shalala, thanks so much

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the coronavirus outbreak is putting a spotlight on deeply embedded inequalities in american society. as the outbreak takes a disproportionate toll on people of color. higher rates of infections and death, record spike in unemployment, communities of color are bearing the brunt of the kries, what can be done? >> founder and president of media and anchor and executive producer for npr. black lives matter activist, campaign zero and former member of president obama's policing task force. we talked about the inequities a number of ways but story in "new york times" caught my attention. social distancing enforcement and disparities in it. highlighting example in brooklyn. in the bureau, police arrested

40 people for social distancing violations march 17th through may 4th, district attorneys said. 35 black, 4 hispanic, one white. what do local governments need to do to ensure the prfovisions put in place to protect us don't hurt minority communities? >> do the things we've been saying all along, ensure there are not continued disparities in law enforcement when it comes to people of color. this actually comes across so many different ways. in my home town of st. louis, the guidelines for ensuring not interrupted, followed for a time, then the mayor reversed that decision and kicked a lot of people out of the homeless encampments, unsurprisingly, number of those people were black and didn't have

alternative. hotel rooms they were told to get on the list for had long waiting list and shelters were overcrowd. we continue to see not only uneven enforcement of the rule but there's no alternative presented to black and brown folks when they're being pushed out. >> maria, as many states begin to reopen, the "washington post" highlights growing roster of states issuing ultimatums, accept old post given the opportunity or risk no unemployment aid whatsoever. what position does that put vulnerable, low-wage workers in? >> thing is, when you have to work in order to pay the bill and not receiving check in the mail or if you're immigrant or up documented but still essential worker, not going to receive a check in the mail from the government, it creates a huge problem.

i think that part of what we're not seeing is that here every night we applaud in new york city, open our windows and applaud. but i'm thinking so much about the essential workers, so many immigrants working in food processing plants. one of the last states i visited before this pandemic went loose was mississippi, reporting on chicken processing plants, and you think about these really vulnerable communities, alicia, it's not even spanish where they're speaking, they're speaking languages and dialects from guatemala in the highlands. and thinking about working conditions and access to information. these are people putting fod on the table that many of your viewers will be eating tonight. so we don't see them, and therefore we don't understand their direct needs. >> brittany, for many members of

these communities, inequities are not surprising or new, question now becomes how you have an even recovery such that communities that have been hit hardest by this also are able to recover in way that makes them full and whole. what would that look like? >> it would look like intersectional solutions coming from local, state and federal governments. we see the opposite happening all the time. as you stated, this is not a moment that existing inequities are erased. this is when they're heightened and felt even more. we need local governments in particular to ensure they're not acting equally but equitably. people that need things are getting what they need in such a way we're paying close attention to unique needs of each community. frankly we've seen a lot of people decide they were going to

save theirselves. b.e.t. hosted telethon raising money for majority black cities hit by the virus. so many networks, nonprofits, et cetera, deciding to take matters into their own hands because frankly if the inequities we're feeling right now were planned on being solved by local, state and federal governments, they would have been solved by now. >> maria, as veteran journalist who centered your community in your work, i know you know there is a double-edged sword positioning this as story that disproportionately affects people of color. how do you balance the numbers and the potential response if this is seen as not a mainstream story? >> we're seeing it and living through it right now. we're steps away from the south bronx, one of the epicenters of the epicenters.

much of mainstream media doesn't spend a lot of time covering the south bronx, don't realize there too people speaking indigenous languages, many from mexico. problem is when we see this as -- this is what i tweeted out earlier this week, the covid-19 story is a poc story, period, dot, end of story, that is the story now. when the states are demanding to be opened up, we know what it means, more people of color going to work to service your needs and go back to communities where they can't physically distance, potentially going to be infecting so many people. this is what hot spots look like. so i think the responsibility is that if this becomes a people of color story, mainstream will just be like it's happening to them. no, what we're trying to say is we are all tied together. and every moment that we can to bring this forward is how we can

help. maria, thank you so much. brittany, you're staying with me. unicef's first ever streaming event. won't stop, many joining forces in message of unity in the pandemic. unicef won't stop, streaming on nbc news now and social channels. you won't want to miss it. nt to. ♪ it's the easiest because it's the cheesiest. kraft. for the win win. which is why when it comes to his dentures only new poligrip cushion and comfort will do. the first and only formula with adaptagrip cushioning technology. choose new poligrip cushion and comfort. they will, but with accident forgiveness allstate won't raise your rates just because of an accident. cut!

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it. >> georgia father and adult son facing murder and assault charges in case sparking outrage across the country. accused of shooting and killing 25-year-old ahmaud arbery jogging through a neighborhood in brunswick according to his family. important to note deadly encounter happened more than two months but the mcmichaels were arrested this week after video went viral online. they say they thought he was burglar and acted in self-defense. judge denied them bond. joining me, president of color of change and brittany. here's what georgia bureau of investigations had to say about why the arrests took so long. take a listen. >> we base our decisions on two things, facts and law. whatever the facts are, we apply

the law to it. if the facts say it's felony murder, we take the law to it. there's more than sufficient probable cause in this case for felony murder. >> do you think the arrests would have been made if the video hadn't been shared online? >> with all due deference to what was showed on video, we know things to be true, georgia bureau of investigation was not brought in until there was massive outcry from people across the racial lines. that didn't happen until the video was leaked. charges were not brought because they saw the video, charges were brought because we saw the video. it's bee incredibly rough week for black people. already entered this week suffering from crisis within a crisis. as we continued to suffer more greatly due to coronavirus as we were talking about in last segment, then this week we lost

little richard, andre herel, a black trans woman assaulted in her home, and john reed killed by police in indianapolis and found out about the killing of ahmaud arbery because of the video of what happened over 74 day ago. once again faced with fact there's a callous disregard for black life and unless we take matters into our own hands, no one seems to care. >> color of change has online petition calling for the resignation of district attorneys. why? >> they didn't do their job. this case has shuffled from district attorney to district attorney, jackie johnson pushed back on police officers who

wanted to make an arrest. barnhill saw the video, decided nothing should be done. fact of the matter is there are 2,400 district attorneys around the country, most powerful actors in system. we've been engaging district attorneys and working to push out of office district attorneys who don't value our lives. end of the day, they had opportunity to do something here. and georgia bar needs to investigate and hold them accountable. over and over again, we recognize that unless these folks are held accountable, they won't be nervous about disappointing our community. they'll continue to ensure we have two sets of justice in this country. all around the country right now people are outraged and want to take action. we recognize that arrests are only the first step.

not only need to get a conviction but send a powerful message to those who did nothing when they should have. starts with district attorney and will end with full set of other folks that need to be held accountable. that's why we need to translate this awareness to action and we hope people will visit us at color of change, join the action and campaign and ensure that people hear from us and are held accountable. >> brittany, the video of the deadly shooting has been circulated so widely online, you call it double-edged sword, why? >> because unfortunately we continue to find it's one of the only ways we can see any action. it is sadly effective to see black death shared virally, easily and quickly and widely across the internet to make people pay attention. at the same time it is a retraumatization for black people who continue to

experience trauma in so many of the ways i laid out and more. we don't need to see our trauma playing out on screen for someone to care. if this country is going to truly care about black lives, means we shouldn't have to continue to suffer and watch our own people suffering just to see something happen and see people take action. >> here's how ahmaud's father described his son on msnbc, take a listen. >> heart was just bigger than life. just loved -- people thought he was good young man, and he just was outgoing to everybody. he just loved the people. he just didn't deserve to go out that day. >> this case is not the first of its kind, rashad you've talked about looking at those in charge of the justice system, what else will it take to correct this so these things stop happening? >> brittany and i as two black

activists who engage every day to raise our voices and work with local organizations are part of it. but i'm also appealing to non-black folks. we're heading into mother's day right now, i know people are outraged, it's not enough if you're not going to take action. have conversations with those in your family about their issues and where they're at on this. be sure you're pushing back when you hear racist things. we have all sorts of things that have continued to bubble up. every time we have these killings we watch as platforms online open themselves up to allow folks to fundraise for the killers. saw $200,000 being raised on go fundme by the killers of eric garner and we've had to stop a bunch of them on gofundme this time for these killers. and we've been successful.

fight for justice will involve at its center black and brown people but we need all of us having skin in the game to raise our voice and push back. we hope people will join us to take action, that's how we change what's happening and make justice real. >> thank you both so much. top of the hour, reverend sharpton will take a look at this case and coronavirus. "politics nation." white house bury cdc guidelines on how states with reopen from the pandemic, how the trump administration is responding. the trump administra responding (vo) at farmers we've seen a thing or two.

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support. once the decision was made public, the administration reversed its decision, calling the cdc and asking to fast track plans for release. the white house released this state from the cdc director saying "the reopening guidance shared prematurely was in draft form and had not been vetted through the interagency review process. i had not seen a version of the guidance incorporating interagency and task force input and was not yet comfortable releasing a final work product. eli, what is the white house saying about that report? >> well, you saw the statement that they put out. they're effectively trying to say that redfield wasn't saying what it looked like he was saving in the emails that the

a.p. obtained where redfield is e ma e-mailing the white house, have the top people at the white house, have the principals signed off on these guidelines because he said "we are ready to post." maybe they haven't got i don't kn know, the full signoff of the white house. they were looking to get those off on may 1st. it was the white house, the vice president perhaps, that sort of squashed it. and they had redfield put the statement out today, whether redfield actually wrote the statement or it came from the white house, that's anyone's guess. >> yamiche, we say the white house press secretary step up to the podium, lead a briefing for the first time. you had an exchange with her i want to play. take a listen. >> in 2015 the president said

some mexicans were criminals, you said that language was racist. to you still believe that today? >> for the first four weeks of the election, i was watching cnn and i was naively believing some of the headlines that i saw on cnn. >> i'm not asking for headlines. >> i'm actually not going to read the headlines. >> i wonder if you've gotten any further response to that question. >> i haven't gotten any further response to that question right now but what is clear is the current white house press secretary, she had real problems when it came to the president's language, when it came to him describing some mexican immigrants raised i

immigrants racists and criminals. she said it was racist and hateful. we all know what happened after that. the president kept up that language, even when he was president. it's very interesting to see now the white house press secretary saying actually, i came around to it. soon after that she was a very focal supporter of the president. she's also been a spokesperson for the trump campaign and the republican national committee. she didn't back down from those statements, which i think is interesting. instead she said i just supporter of the director. >> eli, the white house is rolling out new policies after aides testing positive for covid-19 -- >> my understanding. >> eli, go ahead. >> chief of staff mark meadows

said basically when they have new people coming into the white house, whether it's members of congress, ceos, they're doing a lot more tests of those people. we know that the president, the vice president and senior staff are being tested every day, but there's obviously growing concern given that this is maybe the one place in the country where the tests are readily available and you can get them day after day after day and now this week we've seen at least two cases of folks in the west wing testing positive in spite of the precautions. you heard the president yesterday going on expressing frustration, maybe confusing tests with what a vaccine would do. that's the problem with these tests. you can take the tests and still come up positive, you another, seemingly not appreciating that there's the public health precautions that a lot of people have to take given the seriousness of this virus. and there's been more scrutiny on the president and vice president as well for the fact

that they and a lot of their staff are not wearing face masks and adhering to the guidelines. >> do you have any reporting on why we're hearing from the former president obama on the timing of the remarks. >> there were remarks that were on a private call for alumni of the obama administration. he was talking for about 30 minutes and trying to get them excited about working and working for and to elect former vice president joe biden. in that regard, that's the vein within which he was making those comments. what he said was that the trump administration has essentially failed at its response to the coronavirus and covid-19. president obama has not been very vocal about attacking

president trump so these comments are very, very interesting to hear. >> thank you both so much. that wraps it up for this hour. i'm alicia menendez. i will be back tomorrow at 2 p.m. and 4 p.m. at the top of the hour reverend al sharpton takes over with "politics nation." harpton takes "politics nation." only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ with hepatitis c... ...i ...best for my family.my... in only 8 weeks with mavyret... ...i was cured. i faced reminders of my hep c every day. i worried about my hep c. but in only 8 weeks with mavyret... ...i was cured. mavyret is the only 8-week cure for all types of hep c. before starting mavyret your doctor will test...

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good evening and welcome to "politics nation." tonight's lead, another

underlying condition leading to