in rare leaked audio from a phone call with thousands of former staffers, president obama openly criticized president trump for his abysmal handling of the pandemic thus far. as he sit here on mother's day in this new and awful normal, it is almost hard to remember that under normal circumstances you would probably be getting the family together soon to take your mom or your children's mom out to a nice brunch or dinner and lavishing her with flowers or gifts like a little bear friend here. but in this new covid-19 reality, this new life as we know it, everything has drastically changed. everything has changed including how we traditionally celebrated holidays like this one. and it is also changed for america's businesses. business owners. bigley. mother's day is hugely profitable for multiple industries in this country. the single busiest day of the year for restaurants. on mother's day in 2019, the national retail federation

projected that americans would spend up to $25 billion on mother's day gifts and festivities including 5.2 billion in jewelry, $4.6 billion on restaurant meals and on special outings, and $2.6 billion on flowers. but due to the covid-19 outbreak, nearly every single one of these industries instead is facing unprecedented economic challenges and financial hardship. with many of them struggling just it keep their doors open and pay their employees. there are now more than 1.3 million confirmed cases of coronavirus nationwide. and more than 79,000 confirmed deaths. and the staggering tragic death toll has gone hand and hand, what can only be described as a rolling economic collapse. more than 3.2 million americans who lost their jobs, just in the last week, bringing the seven-week unemployment total to

more than $33 million. great depression era numbers. many small businesses have been forced to shut their doors, restaurants have turned to take-out and delivery service to tri and survive. and since the outbreak, the restaurant industry says that it suffered more than $80 billion in losses with a projected $240 billion in total losses by the end of the year. meanwhile, the program created for the sole purpose of helping these restaurants and other small businesses, paycheck protection program, has been under strain and scrutiny since its inception. the program's funding quickly ran out after the first coronavirus relief bill, many small business owners were left out due to built in hurdles and restrictions that were too often tied to existing disparities from minority owned firms, while big companies and big restaurant chains cashed out on the program and struggling small business owners often didn't see a dime. one of my next guests is proposing a new program to address those issues head on.

joining me now is congresswoman camilla paul of washington, treness woods black, and joseph stiglets, author of "people, power and profits." congresswoman, i'll start with you, the frustration that i hear from friends who -- from everyone who is in business is that the initial bills helped big, big, big companies and didn't help the small companies that are the backbone really of the economy and employ the most people. can you explain what you want to do differently in the next round? >> yes, absolutely. happy mother's day. this is not the circumstance we would normally be in, but it is mothers who lift up the sky. so thank you. joy, the reason we are in the situation that we're in is

because we have not thought about the strategic goal of stopping mass unemployment, keeping paychecks and workers' pockets and helping businesses survive this crisis without letting banks, for example, pick winners and losers. i read the stories of melba and treness and they reflect what i've been hearing from small businesses across the country and workers of any size businesses, which is that they really need relief to go directly from -- to workers, guaranteeing their paychecks up to a certain salary cap and allowing businesses to have a certain amount of money that can go into their fixed costs which have to continue no matter what. so our paycheck guarantee proposal would allow for any size business, no winners or losers here, any size business, but the people that benefit the most will be small businesses who don't have banking

relationships, who aren't banked already. they can go directly to the irs and using their previous tax filings, no additional paperwork needed, they can say, i okay, i got revenue lost of 70% and then a grant amount would be calculated, not a loan, not a maybe forgivable loan, but a grant amount would be calculated for a lump sum of three months of salary and benefits, plus times the revenue lost, plus an amount for operation. that would continue until unemployment reaches 7% for three months free. that's a level of certainty that businesses don't have. and when you think about who the ppp has left out, it is a lot of small businesses, 95% of black-owned businesses have not been able to get support and all of the structural flaws of the program have meant that relief is not going to where it should

go, not going to the hardest hit places that suffered coronavirus, and it is not going to the places where unemployment is the highest. so we desperately need another solution and we need it with urgency because 33 million unemployed is a stunning number. and we need to put certainty in businesses' pockets and preserve that relationship between businesses and their employees, and also help keep employees on healthcare when they already have it through their employer. we're very excited about the proposal, but we have to get it in now. >> well, just to read for the audience, in addition to what the congresswoman said, a few details of the plan that the congressman is talking about, this paycheck guarantee act would cover 100% of wages for workers earning salaries of up to $100,000 to ensure that employers can keep workers paid and out of unemployment line. that would also relieve unemployment insurance system in

the states, keeps workers enrolled in employer sponsored benefits including healthcare, encourages employers to hire furloughed workers. i'll start with melba, happy mother's day to all of you guys as well, melba, would that help you, would that kind of a program help you? >> happy mother's day to all of the mothers on the crew over there, and everyone -- all the mothers watching. the congresswoman's proposal would be a shot in the arm, not just for myself, but for so many of the million small business owners around the country. you look at what we have now, everyone is very upset about the ppp, especially small business owners, which was something designed to go to small businesses. 95% as we know of small businesses did not receive a dollar from this. we were fortunate because of our relationship with true fund, a

cdfi, that we were funded. however, if i'm funded, and 95% of my peers and my fellow restaurateurs and small businesses were not, it is a loss. it is not a win for me. it is not a win for our economy. >> yeah. and treness, same question to you. as we put up the u.s. unemployment numbers, if you break it down by industry, the bulk of it is in leisure and hospitality, right? you have education and health services next, professional businesses, retail manufacturing and all the way down. but obviously restaurants were hit hard while cruise ships, which a lot of times aren't even based in the united states, they ran away from the united states to get tax breaks, they're getting tons of money. would something like this program help you, help your business? >> absolutely. because the current ppp loan has so many flaws. number one, there is no way we

could meet the terms. prior to covid, we had over 100 employees on staff at the restaurant. we had to lay off 80 people. and that was really tough. now, according to the criteria of the loan, it is impossible to meet. they want us, the ppp restrictions say that we have to bring back the majority of our staff, which is the same amount of people that we had employed prior to covid in order for the loan to even be forgivable. now, in the restaurant industry we already work with very, very small margins. we were just coming out of slow season. so cash on hand, very, very hard. so can you imagine taking on more unforgivable debt on top of something that we don't know when we're going to come out of. what we need is for the ppp to

completely be overhauled. we need that forgiveness period to be longer. we need the rehiring period to be longer. >> yeah. go on, i'm sorry. >> right now we're getting calls from our community that they want to help, they want to help, but it is hard for us to get employees to come back. could you imagine taking on this loan and then not being able to meet the criteria for it? that means additional debt on top of what you're already -- the situation you're already in. >> and before i get -- very quickly, treness, first to you and then melba, how much of your business would be happening today, how big would mother's day be for you, for your -- >> mother's day is the biggest day of the year. for almost 60 years mother's day

has been our golden day. you know, it is the day where everyone comes out, whether it is take-out orders or bringing out their mothers and celebrating the women in their lives, and this is a day that our employees look forward to. this the day they know they are going to go home with a great amount of profit in their pocket and with us being closed, and only able to offer take-out and delivery, we're just operating at maybe 15% to 20%. >> yeah. and melba, i've been to both sylvia and melba's for mother's day. it is hard to get a seat. it is difficult to get a seat. you have to book in advance. this day would be huge for you normally. >> mother's day is by far the top grossing day at melba's. it is top grossing of course for the business, but also and more importantly for our staff. it is also a day where nurturing

takes place. you look at your restaurant and your restaurant is an extension of the community. it is a bond that is brought into the community and it is a place where people come to celebrate and not having our restaurant open today, this very special day, people want to pay homage to that special woman, those special ladies in their lives is very detrimental. and you're not just -- you know, you get a restaurant closing, you're not just hurting the restaurant, you're hurting -- it is a layered down effect, joy. it is the farmers. it is the purveyors. it is the bakers. so many people go out of work when a restaurant closes. so it is not just the person that you see there in the restaurant. it is definitely a layered down effect. >> yeah, and let me bring you in here, there are other parts to it too. you have this -- there is a thing that is called insurance.

there is an insurance that business can take out, business interruption insurance, that a lot of companies are finding actually doesn't actually cover this. no matter howing about ing abob company might pay, you have the question of how would these businesses pay back paycheck -- the loans, paycheck protection loans? a lot of people haven't gotten them and even if they got them, it is not clear how to pay them back, it is not sure if employers will show up. your thoughts? >> so, first, the point on the business interruption insurance, every insurance policy has this fine print that is often very hard to read. and the objective of the insurance company is not to pay. and so you're finding this experience that people are

discovering that just when they need the insurance the most, the insurance companies are questioning. i think this is an example where we should not allow the insurance companies to claim what they sometimes call force major, act of god, that they need to step up and it may be there will have to be a sharing of a cost between the government and the insurance company. >> would it have made more sense if in the beginning congress said we're going to pay every american worker, whatever your salary was, the federal government will pay it for four months and let businesses be eased off of that for four months. would that have made more -- would that have made more sense economically? >> this is basically what the representative bill's does. it pays for everybody whose salary is below a particular level in proportion to how the

company's revenues have gone down. so it is exactly the kind of program that not only protects workers and small businesses, but -- and the economy more broadly, but keeps the workers attached to the enterprise. and that's really important, both for restarting the economy when the pandemic is over, but also trying to avoid the excess burden under unemployment system and our medicaid system. most americans get their health insurance from employer-provided insurance. and if they're separated from their company, they're going to be on medicaid and our systems are not capable of doing it, particularly now with state revenues plummeting and the government -- the federal government not stepping up to help them. >> let me go back to this, i know you and other progressives in the house have been very much

for medicare for all, where if there is anything that has made the case for separating insurance from employment and making the two stand alone, so that business owners wouldn't have to worry about having to fund it, and people wouldn't have to worry about losing it when something like this happens, do you see movement? i don't know if you had conversations with joe biden about this, it feels like that case is being made every day. >> i think that case is being made every day for why we should not tie healthcare to any job, it should be guaranteed no matter who you work for, whether you get laid off or not. anybody who said employer sponsored healthcare offered you choice, i would say, i think i said it here on the show, joy, with you, that there is no choice when you get laid off, you don't have any choice at that point. so we do have a proposal to address healthcare specifically, but i would say that you know i'm pragmatic in how i think

about this. there is an immediate need to ensure workers keep their healthcare. in the paycheck guarantee, we keep workers on healthcare because it is far cheaper for us to do that than to use cobra or other mechanisms and then i have a proposal with joe kennedy called the medicare crisis act that would expand medicare for anybody who is still unemployed at that level, and expand medicaid for anybody who is uninsured. and then prohibit cost sharing for anybody in the midst of this global health pandemic. the first and foremost thing we have to do is the paycheck dparn t guarantee act. it is not just an economic recovery plan, which it is, it is also a public health plan. because if we want people to beat the virus, we need them to stay home. if we want people to stay home, then we have to relieve the economic pressure on businesses like melba's and trenness' and

others across the country and allow them to have some certainty that their business is going to survive, that their paycheck will pay for their rent and mortgage and i think that is how we should look at this whole thing. >> yeah. before we go. yes or no answer, i'm out of time, but, melba, if you reopened melba's, and people were too afraid to show up and come in and people weren't coming in, could you afford to keep paying utilities and rent and all you have to pay, could you afford that? >> absolutely no. >> trenness, could you afford it if you had to reopen and nobody came out to eat? >> absolutely not. absolutely not. our restaurants are the backbone of our community. >> yeah, all right. well, thank you all very much. happy mother's day to all. thank you for sharing some time with us this morning.

thank you very, very much. next up, president obama do not stop at the pandemic response. he also came for trump's hand. how about no no uh uh, no way come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card. theryou're not good enough. hard to control. n-n-n-no-no but i am enough. and i know what i'm made of. put your skin in the game. with a razor that puts your skin first. let's be honest. quitting smoking is hard. like, quitting every monday hard. quitting feels so big. so try making it smaller, and you'll be surprised at how easily starting small can lead to something big. start stopping with nicorette.

they did not have a basis for a counterintelligence investigation against flynn at that stage. >> does the fact remain that he lied? >> well, people sometimes plead to things that turn out not to be crimes. >> donald trump's senior henchman attorney general william barr has been trying to deconstruct the mueller report since he took over the department of justice early last year. on thursday, he was extra busy. first, he asked the supreme court to block the release of the full unredacted mueller report after a federal appeals court ordered the release in march. the supreme court did temporarily block the release, but that fight will resume in court very soon.

only a few hours later, barr outdid himself, he out and out dropped the criminal charges against trump's first 24-day national security adviser michael flynn whose early exit came shortly before pleading guilty twice to lying to the fbi about his contact with the russians. you might also recall that flynn was the one person president obama specifically warned trump to be wary of as trump prepared to take office. that warning came for a good reason. because pictures like these suggested that he could be vulnerable to compromise by the kremlin. news of flynn's get out of prosecution free card drew a scathing comment from the 44th president about the dangerous precedent that barr has said. >> the news over the last 24 hours i think has been somewhat downplayed about the justice department dropping charges against michael flynn.

and the fact that there is no precedent that anybody can find for someone who has been charged with perjury just getting off scot-free. that's the kind of stuff where you begin to get worried that basic, not just institutional norms, but our basic understanding of rule of law is at risk. >> that leaked audio is from a conference call president obama held on friday with former members of his administration. i cannot emphasize to you enough how unusual it is for president obama to speak out about the current administration. so to hear him say that, that is a really big deal. joining me is will winebanks,

assistant watergate special prosecutor and author of "the watergate girl," michael isikoff" for yahoo! news, and david corn and sarah keynesian, author of "hiding in plain sight." thank you all for being here. i want to go to you first, jill. to see if president obama is right. he is a constitutional lawyer. our a brilliant lawyer as well. is it unusual, have you heard of somebody play pleading guilty twice to perjury and then having their case expunged in this manner? >> it is even worse than what you're saying because he not only was charged, he pled guilty, the case is over. he was pending a sentencing that is all that remained. so dismissing at this point is really unusual and there is no

public interest in doing so. there is one case called kalyn where the department of justice tried to dismiss because they were transferring the case to another jurisdiction, it was actually a watergate case, against connolly and the witness who was going to testify against him in d.c. had a charge pending for the same kind of crime in texas federal court. and so as part of his plea gargan, that case was to be dismissed and the court said the public interest in having him testify justifies dismissing it. he hadn't pled guilty. it wasn't over. it wasn't pending sentencing. and there was a public interest in allowing him to be prosecuted somewhere else. this would be unheard of. this is a clear cover-up, it is because probably flynn knows

something that trump does not want revealed. and he's trying to protect him. this is a big cover-up. it should be one of the biggest scandals of this administration and because of covid-19, we're not hearing enough about it. >> yeah. and the new york times editorial board wrote that they called it a perversion of justice and said among the key reforms of watergate were stronger transparency and ethics rules. mr. trump has been firing inspectors generals he thinks are not loyal to him. and there are new limits on presidential power. trump broke that rule last year when he withheld hundreds of millions of dollars of military aid to ukraine. not like this is an administration that believes in the rule of law. i want to play for our -- all of our guests, william barr himself explaining himself in a way that i think might be one of the most

chilling things that i have ever personally heard from an attorney general of the united states. take a listen. >> when history looks back on this decision, how do you think it will be written. >> history is written by the winners. depends on who is writing the history. >> michael isikoff and david corn, you wrote "russian roulette," wrote this whole period and era in american history. this man william barr does not seem to care about history other than that he believes that the regime will be vindicated because the regime will write the history. that's how that sounded to me. >> well, it certainly is a power makes right argument. no concern for the greater issues at stake here. we have our history. paperback is coming out in a couple of weeks, and i think we'll keep fighting over this. what frustrating is we keep fighting over very basic

details. have you heard them say anything about the fact that the russians attacked the election in 2016 to help donald trump become president? that's what at the core of this. that's the history that donald trump wants rewritten because it taints his presidency. and it is not just history. in february, the fbi director chris ray and john ratcliffe, the congressman, artive trump defender both said the russians are still intervening in auntth ongoing 2020 election. we're fighting over fundamentals about american democracy and barr has shown he's on the side of whatever works for trump and not in the interest of american democracy. >> yeah, he's the hand of the king. michael isikoff, abid jamali wrote the following about him. he said the threat has been

neutralized. it is not about justice, it is about neutralizing a threat. getting rid of him, having him plead, he won't be able to serve in another administration, the warnings about him are on the table as to the threat of him n your view and your investigation what threat did he pose to u.s. national security if any? >> well, couple of points. one of the extraordinary things about the decision to drop the charges against michael flynn is not a single career prosecutor at the justice department signed that motion to the judge asking that the charges be dismissed. it was signed by one man, home to timothy shay, the political appointee who is the u.s. attorney, in the district of

columbia, based on the recommendation of jeff jensen, the u.s. attorney, the political appointee in st. louis and approved by barr, a political appointee. it is in my many years of reading justice department filings, i cannot remember seeing one in which not a single career prosecutor puts his name to it. so that gives you an idea of how unusual this was. but just to get the larger context here, remember what this case was all about. it was flynn lying about his conversations with the russian ambassador, which were directly after obama had imposed sanctions on russia for its attack on the 2016 election and announced they were -- that the obama administration would be kicking out multiple russian diplomats as punishment. flynn then tells kislyak don't

worry about that, don't revisit it, we will respond. what leaps out to me about this is that was the first indication, first real sign that the new trump administration was going to start undoing everything obama had done. it started with that. it continued through the affordable care act, through the climate deal, through the iran nuclear deal, one by one trump was un -- seemed determined to undo everything that obama had done, which is why i think these comments from obama, which i should point out we published exclusively on yahoo! news friday night, were so, you know, leap out because clearly obama is speaking to legitimate policy reasons about the rule of law. there is also sort of a larger context of him watching trump undoing everything that he had

done as president. >> including turfing flynn himself out at the defense -- let's not forget it was president obama that got rid of him in the first place. >> he had gone to trump during the transition and the one personnel recommendation he made was don't hire flynn. and -- >> correct. correct. we have seen william barr's monar monarch, his belief in absolute power, in the hands of the president. sarah, that president, the king to whom he is the hand, always just says he blurts out the truth, he says it out loud, here he is doing it on fox about barr. >> if bill barr was your first attorney general, would there have been a mueller probe and a russia hoax? >> no. there wouldn't be. he would have stopped it immediately. >> in other words, they would

have gotten away with it if it hasn't been for the dastardly actual real investigators, if he had had this guy, he could have covered it all up. this is regimish behavior, one of the reasons i wanted to talk to you about it. your thoughts. >> yeah, of course he said that out loud. they haven't been trying to hide it and they did get away with it. we're not dealing with a question of law, so much as raw power. we're not dealing with questions of democracy, so much as aing o autocracy. he said he was going to prosecute any enemy of trump, even if they're innocent and e preemptively exonerate trump of everything. william sapphire back in 1992 called bill barr the iran/contra cleanup guy and if you look at trump's own history, he has always surrounded himself with

shady lawyers, and now bill barr who do his dirty business who have that understanding of bureaucracy and how to manipulate it, that trump himself lacks. so he has always been extremely dangerous and never should have been confirmed in the first place. >> yeah, they called him the cover-up general, i believe. here is adam schiff on thursday on all in on thursday talking about this. >> what this will mean as a practical matter is in courtrooms all across the country, where prosecutors are bringing legitimate cases, juries will wonder is this really a valid case or is this bill barr's justice department once again acting politically not in the interest of justice? so he's undermining his own people around the country, and at the same time it is a continuation of the same kind of political patronage now in the justice department that donald trump has brought about.

>> and speaker pelosi issued a statement saying that barr's politization of the justice department knows no bounds, michael flynn pleaded guilty, now attorney general barr's justice department is dropping the case to continue the cover-up for the president. are you surprised there have not been massive number of resignations from the department of justice? >> i am not surprised that there aren't more. i am proud there are so many. no prosecutor who is a career prosecutor has been involved in this. both in terms of the stone sentencing, prosecutors withdrew, in terms of this, prosecutors withdrew. i think something that both david and michael said is really true, this is an attempt to dismantle the institutions of our government, it is to dismantle the department of justice, the fbi, it is dismantling anything that had to do with the russia investigation, the mueller probe. that's what this is really all

about. it is not just about doing injustice by getting one particular defendant off. but it does send a message that no one should trust the department of justice and the fbi. and those are serious long lasting threats to our democracy. so it is really terrible. i think you're going to be seeing former members of the department of justice speaking out on this once again because we see so many times that barr has really endangered democracy and justice. so watch for that to come. >> absolutely. they will all live in infamy and you cannot unimpeach the president. he was -- he will remain impeached throughout history. >> the supreme court on the top and on the bottom is a justice gavel or gavel for a judge because what i think is happening here is justices supposed to be blind, not

supposed to be doing favors for members of your family. i think judge sullivan has a big task ahead of him, that he's up to, that he can speak out on why it is improper. there is no basis for getting rid of this case, no grounds for dismissal. and he can -- he used to do that or do it without prejudice, which means it could be brought again after the election. so let's hope that -- >> we shall see. >> let's hope. let's kristi noem issues a warning to the tribes in her state, that was just so steeped in irony. keep it there. you've got to see this story next. at farmers we've seen a thing or two. especially lately. we've seen you become sweat-pant executives, cat coworkers and pillow-fort architects. we've seen you doing your part. so, farmers will keep seeing you through. with fifteen-percent-reduced personal auto premiums

and immediate savings through our signal app, which gives a discount for safe driving. and then we'll do the next thing, and the thing after that, until this is another thing we've seen and done. ♪ ♪all strength ♪we ain't stoppin' believe me♪ ♪go straight till the morning look like we♪ ♪won't wait♪ ♪we're taking everything we wanted♪ ♪we can do it ♪all strength, no sweat

i believe in our freedoms and liberties. so many people give up their liberties for a little bit of security. and they don't have to do that. if a leader will take too much power in a time of crisis, that is how we lose our country. >> south dakota governor kristi noem who seems to think a deadly and highly contagious virus is really no big deal opposed stay-at-home orders for her state even as the pork factory in sioux falls became the biggest coronavirus hot spot in the nation last month. now the republican governor is challenging native american tribes that are working to prevent the virus from spreading on their reservation.

threatening legal action unless both the cheyenne river sioux tribe remove the checkpoints they set up to lock down their communities. both pushed back on noem's threats. writing in a scathing statement, we will not apologize for being an island of safety in a sea of uncertainty and death. joining me is harold frazier, thank you for being here today. there is a piece i noted yesterday and sent to the team from the independent that it really spoke to me to the irony of all of this. it says, you know, native americans have a difficult history with deadly viruses. an estimated 90% of tribal people were wiped out by smallpox and other viruses brought to the americas by european settlers. native americans being hit four times harder than the general

public during the 1918 spanish flu. how did it hit for you to have this governor essentially demand that the tribes allow nonmembers on to their territory? even if it could make them sick. >> well, you know, i just felt we have every legal right to do what we're doing. because in the past history and time after time the lack of adequate healthcare for our people, you know, we're just -- don't really have the resources to combat this virus once it gets into our lands and right now the main tool we have at this point is prevention. and we feel that, you know, by monitoring our borders, and just tracking everybody that is going

through or attempting to go through will help us once this -- if this virus ever comes here. so we're just trying to be -- doing preventive action, nothing to try to hinder people, you know, and when we talk about rights, you know, one of the greatest rights is the right to live. and that's all we're trying to do is provide that right for our residents of this reservation to live. and to live a good healthy life. >> yeah, and there are 3,393 known cases of coronavirus in south dakota. 34 deaths thus far. here is the press statement and there is no -- i don't know if she has a -- she is against stay-at-home orders. here is the press statement from her office, that was issued on friday. she said, tribes must consult with the state of north dakota and enter into an agreement

before restricting travel. i think for a lot of people, that's incredibly ironic that she seems to be trying to establish sovereignty over the land to which the united states has left your tribes. your thoughts on that? >> you know, we have been conup sult consulted years and years by the government and -- processes and throughout our history, every time the government has consulted with the tribes, not once did they ever ask for our permission. they have come and informed us what they were doing, got advice, sometimes they listen, but very seldom and then move on to what they're doing.

and we, you know, we have done the same. we consulted the south dakota department of transportation, on april 8th, issued us a letter, some recommendations of how to set up checkpoints, et cetera. we read the letter and seemed good, we have taken it. but we had people too within our tribe that are trained on checkpoints. we have veterans amongst our people and law enforcement personnel. so, you know, we thank them for the advice, it is polite to respect everybody's comments, but, you know, i feel that, you know, and too, why do we need to ask somebody for something that they don't know? this is our land. these are, you know, and so

forth, so, you know, i don't tell other governments what to do. so why should they tell us what to do? you know? >> yeah. indeed. i want to bring in for a moment, stay with me, i want to bring many brian dorgan, he's on the phone, former senator from north dakota, the author of the -- in the photograph. this is an outrage on so many levels, senator. for this governor to try to dictate to this tribe, given what the united states has done to and the way they devastated native populations all the way up until today, hundreds and hundreds of years, what are your thoughts on the nerve that she has shown in trying to essentially order these tribes to let them -- to let nontribal members make them sick if that's what they want to do. >> mm-hmm. well, the native american communities had a belly full of being told how things are going to work by others outside of the indian reservations. there is -- there is a long and

sordid history here of broken promises with respect to indian healthcare. the fact is this say very deadly virus, native american communities are a vulnerable population. they have high rates of diabetes and asthma and so on. i don't think it's unreasonable at all for them to want to protect their population. nobody else is going to protect them. there's this long history of the indian health service has done a miserable job. only about half. th of the health care that was promised for native americans has been made available to them. so i understand exactly what the chairman is saying. he's talking about checkpoints, trying to understand who's coming onto the reservation. you know, 200 years ago, you know, the non-indians brought smallpox to the indian population, which was devastating. so, there's a long history here. and i -- i think it's perfectly understandable if native american communities want to do checkpoints to understand who's coming on and off the reservation. >> yeah.

and, you know, chairman, you've had voter suppression against your community in recent elections. you've had pipelines forced onto your land. this seems like the ultimate outrage here because this is trying to force disease into your community. what is the next step here in trying to fight back against this governor? >> well, you know, i've been telling our people, we just -- we need to remain focused, keep doing what we're doing because, you know, wire trying to do this for the good. it's not like we're trying to destroy anything. you know, we're just trying to save lives and like the senator mentionsed, you know, here on our reservation, we have an eight-bed facility. and it's almost ambulatory care facility, really. our nearest hospital where we

would get critical care is -- it's a three-hour drive, which is in rapid city, south dakota. we know what we're up against. so we're just going to keep moving and keep going and whatever happens happens, whether it's in a court or -- you know, i think it's just kind of unreal of what they're trying to do. >> absolutely. well, a lot of us are out here rooting for you. thank you very much. please stay safe. harold frazier as well as former snore byron dorgan. coming up, legendary newsman dan rather joins "am joy." kraft. for the win win. which is why when it comes to his dentures

only new poligrip cushion and comfort will do. the first and only formula with adaptagrip cushioning technology. choose new poligrip cushion and comfort. but when allergies and congestion strike, take allegra-d... a non-drowsy antihistamine plus a powerful decongestant. so you can always say "yes" to putting your true colors on display. say "yes" to allegra-d. to putting your true colors on display. my time is thin, but so is my lawn. now there's scotts thick'r lawn 3-in-1 solution. with a soil improver! seed! and fertilizer to feed! now yard time is our time. this is a scotts yard.

because i trust their quality they were the first to have a vitamin verified by usp... ...an independent organization that sets strict quality and purity standards nature made, the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand new tide power pods one up the cleaning power of liquid. can it one up whatever they're doing? for sure. seriously? one up the power of liquid, one up the toughest stains. any further questions? uh uh! one up the power of liquid with new tide power pods. "show me what you're made of." so we showed it our people, sourcing and distributing more fresh food than anyone... our drivers helping grocers restock their shelves. how we're helping restaurants open pop-up markets. and encouraging all americans to take out to give back. adversity came to town.

so we looked it in the eye. and it won't be us... that blinks first.

positive thinking works wonders. >> i would go so far as to say that if you are a complete, dedicated follower of jesus christ, you can do anything you really want to do with your life. >> good morning. welcome back to "am joy." for those of you who are not familiar with norman vincent peele, he was precursor to the gospel preachers of today. he got famous by writing a self-help book in 1952 called "the power of positive thinking." as you heard this that clip, he

taught his afollowers they could achieve anything they want by thinking positively, anything you want by projecting positive thoughts in the universe. you say things are great, great things will appear. now, if you think about it, it is kind of similar to the whiz. two of his most devoted followers were donald trump and his father fred. in many ways to understand trump and understand the way that he has spent his entire adult life portraying an almost cartoonish level of self-confidence and spinning the most bizarre realities into happy talk, you have to understand norm an vincent peele. "people" magazine published this piece explaining how much of an impact he had on the dot donald. quote, peele then 80 years old officiated at trump's wedding in 1977. in 1983 shortly after opening trump tower, trump credited him

for instilling in him a can-do ethos. i never think of the negative. the piece described trump's affinity as the closest thing he's ever had to a religious belief. it's not surprising he would use the same life hack he's used to carry himself from failure to failure to respond to this pandemic. there are now 1.3 million cases of covid-19 here in the united states. a profound and tragic failure of this administration. and yet since the very first confirmed case, trump has insisted on putting a positive spin on a pandemic that has now led to a painful and lonely death for 80,000 americans. and unemployment for more than 30 million more. even as those working close to him in the white house have tested positive, everything is still great. just couldn't be better. economy in freefall, no biggy. here's what he said on "fox &

friends" friday moments after his own administration released those damning april jobs numbers. >> i created as president we had the strongest economy in the history of the world, the strongest economy we've ever had and we had a closure which was artificial. we artificially closed it. all those jobs will be back and very soon and next year we'll have a phenomenal year. people are ready to go. >> yeah, everything's great. towards the end of that interview trump was tossed a softball question, of course, about his mother's day plans. but apparently the notion of showing admiration or gratitude to his third wife and mother of his fifth child strains even his capacity for happy talk. >> what are your plans for melania and do you have a message for all the moms watching this morning? >> well, we'll be together. i'm going to camp david, meeting, a big meeting with the

joint chiefs of staff and we're going to have meetings on different things and our military has never looked better. it's never been better. we never had the kind of equipment we have now. >> that made no sense at all. joining me now, legendary journalist dan rather. he covered historic moments including jfk's assassination and watergate. dan rather is the host of "the big interview" on axis tv. he's perhaps the most coveted guest on this show, other than president obama, that i have been eager to talk to. dan rather, thank you so much for being here this morning. >> thank you very much for having me, joy. good to be with you. >> great to be with you as well. so, you know, jay rosen this week wrote a piece that gives this alternate -- gives it an at nat way of describing the another man vincent peale-esque philosophy of handling a pandemic.

not how to handle a pandemic but talk himself through it. the plan is to have no plan, to wing it without a plan is merely the best this government can do given who heads the table. the manufacturer of confusion is just the ruins of trump's personality meeting the powers of the presidency. there is no genius there, only a damaged human being playing havb havoc with our lives. the overall point he wrote is the plan really is to talk americans into thinking that it's okay. that it's okay that 80,000 people or 100,000 people are dead, that the 33 million unemployed is all fine and just get people to believe that with happy talk rather than actually solve the problem. what do you make of that? >> well, that's exactly what it is. it's a full power effort using the pomp and circumstance of the presidency to accentuate the positive and try to eliminate the negative or at least to diminish the negative. this is right out of the dr. another man vincent peale

playbook, for those who remember dr. norman vincent peale and trump and his father were followers of his. the belief is if he keeps saying positive things, people will at least begin to believe that things are positive, whether they are or not, and the deepest of that is to actually believe that by saying things or how you imagine them to be, that you can make them to be. i'm not saying i subscribe to any of this. i'm saying in short what dr dr. norman vincent peale to believe. it's pretty hard to argue right now but argue, i would say, every decent person regardless of their political affiliation has to do because we must not normalize thousands of deaths, which is what the president is attempting to do for his own political purpose. he's accentuating the politics,

diminishing the science for his own political benefit. at the same time preaching, i'm saying everything is all right, folks. don't worry about all these deaths. joy, i think it's important to point out that this has developed as it became increasingly clear that those who are suffering the most from the coronavirus are people above a certain age and people below a certain level on the economic scale. and once the president became convinced, okay, it's those people at the bottom end of the economic scale and some people above, say, age 70 or 80, then he took this strategy, this tactic saying, i'm just going to talk about positive things and let the devil take the high note with the deaths. that's the way of normalizing the deaths. >> yeah. it's very -- it's hard to ignore the fact, as you said, as it has emerged also that it's

disproportionately killing people who are black and brown, which is not his base. you know, so he has sort of moved in a direction that can keep his base thinking, those are the ones at risk. it doesn't matter to me. that is very difficult to miss as well. you know, you've covered a lot of presidents. as i'm thinking about this, you know, this isn't a war. this is a war against a virus, which isn't a real war, even though trump tried to make himself a wartime president in the very beginning of it. but i think about lbj, you know, lyndon johnson's torment over the deaths in vietnam, which we've now surpassed, you know, that was a thing you know about in history because you can read about it and see video of it and see -- he didn't run for president again. he didn't run for re-election. is a huge contrast with this president, who doesn't seem to feel anything about these deaths, because that is weird. do you find that odd in covering a lot of presidents?

>> i find it odd to the extent of being weird and bizarre and almost total lack of empathy or almost total lack of expressing empathy. i can't think of another american president, modern president or before the modern presidency, who went through his whole presidency with such a lack of expression of empathy. it's very well strange, indeed. >> you know, even george w. bush, i was very personally against the iraq war, for a while got out of the news business because of it. but i would even say that with him, whether it was 9/11 or whether it was the result of the war that he let dick cheney and others talk him into, you could see there was an compression of emotion towards the dead, a feeling toward the dead, even in the situation where he had launched this war. this was a thing he did, similar to lbj. whether you're a fan of george

w. bush, he did do that. so it's weird to see a president not do that. when you've covered presidents who have been in crisis in the past -- the great depression was 29.4% unemployment rate. the great recession in 1982, the first great recession, 10.8% it maxed out. the 2009 great recession, 10% unemployment. we're now in between those two numbers so far at 14.47%. it's thought we might be heading towards another great depression. what is the normal sort of process of going through crisis and talking americans through crisis that is different now? >> well, the first thing, presidents who have successfully dealt with crises have first and foremost leveled with the american people. the american people long demonstrated, if you level with them, if you tell them what the situation is, no matter how dark

it may appear, that they will respond. i would suggest to you that those who study leadership always point out one of the most important form of leadership, military or otherwise, is to have that trust, that leadership between trust and led. past presidents in times of crisis, loss of lives or times which cut deep, you have presidents leveling with the american public, empathy for those suffering the most and move from there. we haven't had that with this presidency. that's why this is an important subject, and i know something people want to move along, but we have to realize, it isn't just a war against the coronavirus. we have a health crisis. we have an economic crisis at the same time caused partly by the health crisis. we have a political crisis and

we also are being attacked by cyclops by both the russians and the chinese. a psychological warfare to unfable the country. we have all this coming together at one time. this is a situation that just cries out for the kind of leadership that says, folks, let me tell you what we're facing here and the situation is dark. it is not good. it's not going to turn around tomorrow. it requires the best. until and unless we get that kind of talk and that kind of action of establishing trust, we're going to be in an extremely dangerous situation as a people. >> yeah. and we are post-nixon, post-watergate levels of distrust in the government. there's a poll out that shows -- the question was asked, is the government reporting accurate numbers of covid-19 deaths. 47% of republicans don't believe the numbers but they think fewer people have died. so, almost half of republicans

in this economist poll think the number of deaths is being fal i falsely inflated. inflated by whom, i wonder. what do you make of that dichotomy of the parties about what they think about this virus? >> i think president trump thinks he has done well in his argument by being divisive. president trump has helped fuel the belief that, well, the deaths are far overstated and even buying into a degree to of these conspiracy theories. this is what has fueled this. instead, top leadership, real leadership of integrity would be saying, look, nobody really knows how many deaths there are, but if anything, the deaths we've been reporting have been underreported because a lot of people die at home and so forth. we are going to get that other, but we do have to face as long as this country is divided,

we'll remain in a very dangerous situation. >> very quickly, i want to play you -- this is the white houses, two white house advisers, hasett and larry kudlow and steve mnuchin. this was just this morning. >> you are correct, the reported numbers are probably going to get worse before they get better, but that's why we're focused on rebuilding this economy. we'll have a better third quarter. we'll have a better fourth quarter. next year is going to be a great year. >> policies that were in place on lower taxes and lower regulations are still in place. we may expand on those policies with the congress. next year 2021 could be a tremendous snap back in the u.s. economy. >> kevin, how high do you think unemployment is going to get this year? >> you know, i think just looking at the flow of initial claims, that it looks like we're probably going to get close to 20% in the next report. if you remember, we basically stopped the greatest economy on earth to save lives.

and i think we're very glad. we've saved lots of lives. we're glad we've done that. now we're gradually turning the economy back on. >> dan rather, if you could ask anyone in this administration a question, if you could get one question with them, what would you want to know? >> well, if we're setting aside the president, the question to the president is, what is he afraid of? but set that aside, i think the question is, do you believe -- do you honestly believe that there can be a sustained economic turn-around before we get the health crisis under control? i think that's the gut question. some form of that question is what i would ask anybody who's speaking out and making all these very positive statements about where the economy is and where it's about to go. >> dan rather. my mother is no longer here, but if she was, she would be very, very proud i'm sitting here

asking you questions because we watched you five nights a week on the news. you were our news choice. i really appreciate it. it's fun talking with you. have a great day. >> joy, thanks a lot for having me. thanks a lot. >> thank you. up next, amaud arbery that, unfortunately, feels like history repeating itself. open road and telling peoplene that liberty mutual customizes your insurance, so you only pay for what you need! [squawks] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ around here, nobody ever does it. i didn't do it. so when i heard they added ultra oxi to the cleaning power of tide, it was just what we needed. dad?

i didn't do it. #1 stain and odor fighter, #1 trusted. it's got to be tide.

i think about my own kids. if i had a son, he would look like trayvon. a and, you know, i think they are right to expect that all of us, as americans, are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves. >> when trayvon martin was killed by a neighborhood watch volunteer and his story came to national attention, there was at first agreement that his

shooting was an outrage that demanded justice. even well-known conservatives agreed. . >> the shooting of trayvon is a terrible tragedy. unnecessary, uncalled for. >> i expect justice will be done. it's a tragedy and in that sense you have to understand how much of a tragedy it is for the family and for the young man involved. >> the same week that president obama spoke so movingly about trayvon martin, a poll found only 15% of adults thought that the man who shot him, george zimmerman, acted in self-defense. but as time wore on, things changed. zimmerman was arrested and charged with second-degree murder. he maintained he acted in self-defense. and martin's death became more and more politicized by the right wing, glenn beck and others. the same polling found zimmerman acted in self-defense, a

25-point increase in people who believed the shooting was, therefore, justified. eight years later the reaction to the killing of ahmaud arbery in georgia is proceeding along a frighteningly familiar course. for now even donald trump has called the video of the killing very, very disturbing, even heartbreaking. but how long will that last? joining me now is jean pierre, current public affairs senior for moveon.org and the author of the great book "moving forward," jonathan capehart, opinion columnist for "the washington post" and msnbc contributor and midwin charles, a civil trial attorney. having covered this case, i was at the grio at the time, covered it, and went down to sanford, and the atmosphere in the early days of the coverage definitely shifted to where there was mass

sympathy, broad sympathy and shock there had not been arrests. over time, once president obama, specifically, spoke out about it, it was like a switch was flipped in this country where the right said, no, if he says "a," we say "x." i wonder if with donald trump in the white house, how does that switch work, in your view? >> well, first off, let me just give my heartfelt condolences to the ahmaud arbery family, especially to his mother, wanda cooper jones, on mother's day. her son is not here because he was murdered because of the color of his skin. no mother should have to go through that. their grief is also our grief, clearly. here's the thing, joy, and i've been thinking about this. you know, we've been talking about the coronavirus and how it is an epidemic in this country, which is true, but another epidemic in this country is

racismism and it's something we do not talk a lot about in the mainstream media. it's the deep-rooted systematic racism we see in this country over and over and over again. i mean, if you think about the last couple of years, the amount of innocent black people who have been gunned down, killed, murdered, because they were buying skittles, because they were in their own home, because they were at church, because they had a toy gun and playing cops and robbers, because they were selling cds, you name it and this is what's going on in this country for a very long time. what makes this even more painful, ahmaud arbery's death, is at the same time what we're seeing is seeing white people armed with rifles, assault rifles, who are standing in front of state capitols saying violently that they are going to take over the government and police are just standing there. they're just standing there watching. and so this is what makes this

so hard to watch. when you go back to president barack obama, what he did is he acknowledged the pain, he acknowledged the racism, he put a national spotlight of what happened to trayvon martin, he put hisself in the shoes of the parents understanding that could have been his son if he had one. what you have with donald trump is he's using his megaphone, as he always does, to stoke racism. it's a wink and a nod -- it's not even a wink and a nod because it's so bold, to his base. this is where we are with the partisan and division and racism in this country, the history of racism in this country being used by donald trump. >> midwin, you're our lawyer on set today. the facts of the case are still open. they have not been adjudicated

yet. the conversation that we're having, i think, is because there are so many similarities in the sense that the timing, this happened in february, it's taken months for anything to happen. there had to be national outrage and people going on social media and really crying out for there to be arrests at all. and then you have this back and forth over blame and you're starting to see a little bit on the right, the creeping in of blaming ahmaud arbery for his own death. you're seeing that in twitter sphere, which is not real life but it's happening. what do you make of this as a lawyer watching this play outer? >> well, you know, as an attorney who has practiced for 20 years, the one thing that jumps out at me about this case, and like karine, i want to extend my deepest condolences to the family. but the one thing that jumps out at me about this case in particular is the criminalization of black skin. it's why, and i think karine expertly pointed out, you could

have majority of white men showing up on the capitol steps with guns, with ak-47s and rifles we all know can do mass destruction as we know from a variety of school shootings and so forth, and yet those men can be seen as peaceful. they can be seen as not trying to do anything that's harmful. whereas a black man just walking down the street is de facto in the midst of committing a crime. as you know, these two men said in their defense they were making a citizen's arrest. however, if anyone takes time and looks at georgia's law of citizen arrest, it's rarely used and it does not contemplate chasing down someone in a pickup truck with guns saying, stop, stop, stop, i want to talk to you. i did some digging and took a look at the law. the law was basically put into place for retailers. retailers who wanted to sort of hold someone who was caught

shoplifting for the police to arrive and for the police to take over and do their jobs. racism is the underpinning of this. but as someone who's been practicing law for 20 years, it has to be said that we have a problem with criminal justice in this country in the sense where crimes that are committed by blacks versus crimes committed by whites are treated differently. and also victims of crime are treated differently based upon their race. as you said in your intro, it took 74 days for these two men to be arrested. we know in america that if ahmaud arbery was a white man, a white woman, a white child, it would not take 74 days for there to be an arrest for their murder, regardless of who committed the murder, of who is alleged to have committed the murder. it's important to constantly be talking about the why, the back drop and the framing of these cases because we have seen far

too many over the past few years. they've been more public thanks to video. >> you know, jonathan, you and i both covered this case, the trayvon martin case, and president obama said first, you know, if he had a son, he would look like trayvon martin, which is self-evident and then he said he could be trayvon martin. people found that to be completely unacceptable. ahmaud arbery, as a mom with black children, you understand that any of your children could be either of them. black lives matter didn't start with the police incidents of killing blacks, it started with trayvon. it started with any civilian. white civilians have this power still over black life they can act almost like a cop. they can have this police-like power.

this is back again with that. the idea of not just having to fear police encounters but encounters with anyone. this is two trucks full of armed men chasing one guy, right, and you just think about the fear that he must have felt, that trayvon must have felt being pursued by someone with a gun. i people don't think about that as either. it's as if young black men don't feel fear? your thoughts. >> yeah. the burden of being black in this country, particularly of being a black man in this country is bearing the weight of other people people's suspicions. no matter what we're doing. we've gone through barbecue becky and black people doing everyday things and then being harassed for it. minimum, killed for it at the maximum. with trayvon martin, it was drizzling, he was talking on the phone, he was wearing a hoodie, he had just come back from getting skittles and iced tea and a so-called volunteer

neighborhood watch guy decided that he looked suspicious. he was a suspicious character. against the advice of police, pursued trayvon and trayvon ended up dead. as a result of that, there was no video. as a result of that, a lot of people started realizing and started hearing from people like us, people who live in fear and with the fear about what -- why trayvon's killing was something that was so important and something that rippled throughout the african-american community, the country. here we are eight years later and you point out the pattern we're seeing is so eerily familiar, so eerie similar. difference though, trayvon martin had only turned 17 a couple weeks before. arbery was just about to turn 26 years old. both instances, the criminal

justice system did not pursue justice for them. so, you know, as a runner myself, although at my advanced stage i walk more, i walk more briskly than i do run, i never leave home ever leaf home without three things -- driver's license, my insurance card, business card written on, in case of emergency call this cell phone number, and it's my husband's cell phone number because i could be in a traffic accident, but i also could find myself in a situation that trayvon martin found himself in or walter scott found himself in or ahmaud arbery found himself in or jordan davis found himself in. that is the fear that i live with and that african-americans live with broadly and african-american men in particular live with every day. >> yeah. and it's bad enough to have to

fear the police who are supposed to protect and serve, just the thought of being confronted by police feels like people with fear. i can't imagine anything more terrifying than being pursued by somebody with a gun. sorry. it is terrifying. just the thought of it. i feel so badly for ahmaud arbery's parents, his mom on mother's day, you know, trayvon martin's mom, sabriybrina fulto. it's difficult to put into words how horrifying that has to be as a mom to know that kind of fear was visited upon your child. it's horrifying. i want to thank karine jean-pierre, jonathan capehart. they'll join us later in the show. no uh uh, no way come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card. from anyone else. so why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase relieves your worst symptoms

which most pills don't. get all-in-one allergy relief for 24 hours, with flonase. yeah, i'm done after this meeting. which most pills don't. we're just going over how people who switch to progressive can save hundreds. hey mara! - yeah jamie's the guy running it. - mara, you're not on mute. i once had to fake jury duty to get out of talking about his yogurt preferences. mara, you know you're not on mute, right? oh, there's a mute button? yeah, that's flo! the one who looks like she'd smile while she sleeps. flo: i always smile. mara: that's why i said that. did you know prilosec otc can stobefore it begins?urn heartburn happens when stomach acid refluxes into the esophagus. prilosec otc uses a unique delayed-release formula that helps it pass through the tough stomach acid. it then works to turn down acid production, blocking heartburn at the source. with just one pill a day, you get 24-hour heartburn protection.

prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn.

so, this week many of us were glued to the set watching the debut of "becoming," the netflix documentary that trac

tracestraces michelle obama's book tour. we even hear from her daughters, her brother and even more rarely from her mom. but not everyone was excited about "becoming." instead, some were just becoming mad. allow me to read from one particularly sad piece of haterism, from the very angry, angry, national review. the cult of michelle obama is a puzzler. thousands of strong, smart, independent women flock to every public appearance and hang on every platitude of a woman whose sole notable accomplishment is her marriage. looking up on marrying a celebrity is not usually posited to be named afeminism. none can name another exceptional or even unusual achievement. yeah, fellas, graduating from princeton and harvard law school and being an associate at a top

chicago law firm, and executive director of community of affairs for the university of chicago hospitals earning more than any united states senator and as first lady launching the let's move campaign with partners like nike and walmart and serena williams to fight childhood obesity, particularly for working class and poor kids, and calling men to be better and for her anti-bullying campaign and named it be best, which is correct, after plagiarizing michelle's convention speech, and $60 million netflix deal. no, accomplishments at all. she was a first lady icon who launched designers to fame just by wearing their clothes but she is just the first wife and not the wife of a reality star. we'll be back. ♪all strength,

♪we ain't stoppin' believe me♪ ♪go straight till the morning look like we♪ ♪won't wait,♪ ♪we're taking everything we wanted♪ ♪we can do it ♪all strength, no sweat right now, there's over a million walmart associates doing their best to keep our nation going, while keeping us safe. we've given masks to all our people and we're helping our customers practice social distancing in stores. we've implemented shorter hours, so we can sanitize our stores from top to bottom while also restocking our products. but if anything, these days have reminded us why we do what we do. because despite everything that's changed, one thing hasn't, and that's our devotion to you and our communities. we're working together, in-store and online, through pickup and delivery,

to make sure you can still get the essentials you need. and as we move forward, know that our first priority will always be to keep you and our associates safe. ♪ ...little things... ...can become your big moment. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla,

75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines, and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you. while most of the world is being asked to stay inside, there are people out there giving it their all. so, to everyone who is helping keep us safe against covid-19 day in and day out, all of us at amgen say... thank you. all of us at amgen say... featuring the emmy award-winning voice remote. all the apps you love, including netflix, prime video, youtube and hulu. and the most 4k content.

the best entertainment experience all in one place. there's one thing i can tell you about this, it is much more aggressive in its transmission than anything we have seen in recent history. it's probably more akin to the 1918 pandemic. >> republican senator richard burr issued that dire warning to a private audience back in february. weeks after dumping up to $1.7 million in stock. the prelockdown selloff has raised questions over whether the intelligence community chairman had intel of his own about how the virus would tank the market. now turns out he wasn't the only one in his family to benefit from a well-timed stock sale.

pro publica reports, a chairman also sold tens of thousands of shares before the market crashed. joining me is attorney midwin and robert from propublica. explain how this went down. this does sound like they and maybe some other senators as well traded on inside information. >> like you mentioned, and as we reported a few weeks ago, senator burr sold a significant portion of his stock holdings on february 13th. what we discovered last week, and that was about a week before the market crashed. what we discovered last week is that his brother-in-law, who is on the national mediation board and, therefore, needs to disclose his securities trading

as well, sold on the exact same day, between 97,000 and $280,000 worth of stock. we reached out. i gave gerald a call. i called him on his cell phone. i asked him if he and senator burr coordinated, and he immediately hung up on me. >> interesting. fyi for the audience, donald trump appointed mr. fauf to the national mediation board back in 2017. and that is a federal agency that facilitates labor management relations within the nations railroad and airlines industry. here's the statement mr. burr issued about his stock sales. he said, i relied solely on public news reports to guide my decision regarding sale of stocks on february 13th, specifically i closely followed cnbc's daet daily health reportings out of asia.

i spoke with the chairman of the senate ethics committee and asked him to open a complete review of the matter. he unloaded between $628,000 and $1.72 million of his holdings in 33 transactions. kelley luffler, dianne feinstein also had stock sales as well. there was a major briefing on the intelligence -- in the senate intelligence committee in january about this. you did have senators going back and telling their constituents, hey, something's going down. at least their donors. is this a crime? is this a potential crime? what kind of legal liability could they be facing? >> well, i think it's important to first go over what is insider trading? insider trading is trading on stock to your own advantage on the basis of confidential information.

in other words, the information is not publicly available. as you mentioned, senator burr is chairman of the senate intelligence committee. he also hits on the health committee. so, it's incredibly likely, it's incredibly possible that he had access to confidential information about what was going on with the ensuing pandemic, but also with respect to whether or not the united states was prepared to meet this impending pandemic. he penned an op-ed piece in early february. i'm talking about senator burr inspe, in which he said america was prepared to meet this pandemic. we had everything in place and everything is going to be fine. and yet it appears as though he was also saying something completely different. so, insider trading is a very serious crime. the maximum fine to be paid is $5 million for individuals, $25 million for an entity. a maximum penalty of 20 years in jail.

a lot of people almost never get these maximums. we know, for example, with martha stewart, she did five months in jail for something similar, proven by trial she did this. so, as someone who did securities litigation at my old firm 13, 14 years ago, i can tell you insider trading is a very, very serious crime. this looks bad and it smells bad. so, i think investigators are going to do a good job looking into who knew what when and whether or not the trades were based on confidential information. not public information, but confidential information. >> right. robert, when you have mr. burr, the chairman, as you said, as midwin just said, of senate intelligence committee, telling a closed door audience of high ranking the high wealth donors, this is more like the 1918 pandemic not long after he sold stock, it seems other than

coincidental his brother-in-law also sells a lot of stock. have you been able to find any evidence that they connected with each other and discussed these stock sales or that they were completely separate in their actions? >> we reached out to senator burr's attorney. what we got back was a very carefully worded statement. what she said was that senator burr did not coordinate his decision to trade on february 13th with mr. fauff. the more i think about the statement, the more i realize it's saying very little. she didn't respond on our primary question, which was, did senator burr share any information he learned as a senator with any of his relatives? she declined to answer that question. so, what's interesting to me about this development is, you know, we know that the fbi was poking around about these trades. there's now a new front,

potentially, in their investigation. they can go to senator burr's brother-in-law and ask him what, if anything, did the senator tell you. now it's no longer simply in senator burr's mind what his motivations were when he's trading. they have someone to ask who may be able to shed some light on what his mindset was. >> yep. midwin charles, robert, thank you both very much. stay safe out there. coming up at noon, reverend al sharpton talk to alex witt about veepstakes and joe biden's plan for black america. first, more "am joy."

if you have a garden you know, weeds are low down little scoundrels. draw the line with roundup.

the sure shot wand extends with a protective shield to target weeds precisely and kill them right down to the root. roundup brand. trusted for over 40 years. hold on one second... sure. okay... okay! safe drivers save 40%!!! guys! guys! check it out. safe drivers save 40%!!! safe drivers save 40%! safe drivers save 40%!!! that's safe drivers save 40%. it is, that's safe drivers save 40%. - he's right there. - it's him! he's here. he's right here. - hi! - hi. hey! - that's totally him. - it's him! that's totally the guy. safe drivers do save 40%. click or call for a quote today.

that family doesn't have to take out of their house. it relieves stress off of me to let me know i'm doing something good for the community, not just papa john's. i'm doing something good for the community, alice loves the scent of gain so much, she wished there was a way to make it last longer. say hello to your fairy godmother alice. and long-lasting gain scent beads. part of the irresistible scent collection from gain! the economic impact is felt in every corner of this country. as more than 33 million americans filed for unemployment in just the last seven weeks. among the hardest hit is michigan. received nearly $1.2 initial

unemployment applications over five weeks. fourth moment in the u.s. michigan is no stranger to job loss since the auto industry began to head to exits to overseas production and lower wage non-union states. a lot of the economic pain was built-in. doesn't seem as if the white house plans to do any of the job loss and suggesting governors should just reopen their states. why it's taking house member whose hold the purse strings in congress to pick up the slack. joining me now, congressman dan kildee of michigan. good morning, and -- >> good morning. >> and happy mother's day to all the moms in your life, and what is the plan? because states like michigan, you know, just yelling, "reopen" and protesting the governor is not a plan. that is astroturf. from congress, what can be done for these very, very hard-hit states like yours? what should be done? >> well, i think we have to start with the idea this is a

health and an economic crisis and one we have to address on both fronts. significantly increasing amount of testing available would actually help the governor reopen aspects of the economy in a way that's safe, has eyes on the problem, but i think from congress' standpoint we've supplied a lot of resource. it's up to the administration to have a strategy, so far seems to be lacking. in terms of next steps for us, people are hurting. they're hurting economically. they're afraid to re-enter the economy, many of them. people aren't staying home assome suggested because they'd rather collect an unemployment check. they're staying home because they're afraid of getting coronavirus. we need to understand that. my hope is, in the next week or so, we'll have robust support to fill the budget holes in the states, especially michigan where we've been hit very hard, extend unemployment to the end

of the year until this certainty and help to the small businesses. >> kicked in the teeth, many, times over those decades. obviously people aren't out buying cars. what can be done, because, you know, drops in car sales, doesn't seem that's going to change anytime soon. >> no. we have to -- reopening the factories, we need to do that in a way that is supported by testing and new methods in the factory to keep people safe. ultimately, we are going to need more stimulus in the economy. this is a huge economic hit. unfortunately, the economy won't recover, even if we have a vaccine in three or four months, it's going to take many more months for the economy to recover. we'll have to help those industries get back on their feet. >> before i let you go, you represent flynt among other places. give us a status check on how things are going there.

>> tough. one of the hardest doctor h-hit. genesee, just lost one of my high school classmates yesterday to this. we have a crisis on top of a crisis. now this pandemic, a water crisis. flint needs help. economic help, help on the health care floront and realize these are getting hit hard again and focus resources where the need is. >> indeed. sorry to hear that. condolences on th the loss of y friend. appreciate you spending time with us. before we go i want to give a special mother's day shout-out to all of the super moms here at "a.m. joy" for a hard turn, called it a hard turn. natalie and jenny, new moms. their adorable children you see there.

congratulations, ladies, and happy mother's day to all of you and to all the moms in our lives. sorry, the kids are the cutest. thank you for watching "a.m. joy." alex witt pits up coverage after the break and happy fourth anniversary to "a.m. joy." see you. bye! ill going for my best, even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin... i want that too. eliquis. eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. what's next? reeling in a nice one. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care

for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. eliquis, the number one cardiologist-prescribed blood thinner. ask your doctor if eliquis is what's next for you. when taking a break from everyday life is critical to everyone's health, there is one thing we can all do together: complete the 2020 census. your responses are critical to plan for the next 10 years of health care, infrastructure, and education. let's make a difference, together, by taking a few minutes to go online to 2020census.gov. it's for the well-being of your community and will help shape america's future. ♪ and will help shape america's future. around here, nobody ever does it. i didn't do it. so when i heard they added ultra oxi to the cleaning power of tide, it was just what we needed. dad? i didn't do it. #1 stain and odor fighter, #1 trusted. it's got to be tide.

good day, everyone. rapidly approaching high noon in the east. 9:00 a.m.ous west.

welcome, everyone to "weekends with alex witt." waiting on new york governor andrew cuomo to begin his coronavirus briefing. when he gets started speaking we'll bring it to you. a pretty empty times square here in new york city. check out the facts at this hour. 1.3 million confirmed cases of coronavirus across this country. more than 79,000 people have died as the economy is still reeling from its worst jobs report since the great depression. today members of the administration warning it may get worse. >> just looking at the flow of official claims that it looks like we're probably going to get close to 20% in the next report. >> aren't we talking close to 235 percen 25% at this point? which is great depression. >> we could be, chris. >> more states across the country gearing to reopen starting tomorrow. kentucky and new hampshire begin easing lockdowns. restaurants in arkansas, arizona and indiana will be open for

business with new restrictions, while mississippi and most of florida will be reopening their salons and barb shops. also starting tomorrow, passengers on amtrak along with american, south west and alaska airlines required to wear face masks. the airlines say they will provide passengers with masks if they don't have one. and at the white house, three members of the task force are self-quarantining after possible exposure to coronavirus. dr. anthony fauci, cdc director dr. robert red field and head of the fda stephen hahn quarantined 14 days after a staffer tested positive for the virus last week. speaking of the white house, we go to nbc's monica alba with more details on that and more. so as i say, good sunday to you. let's start with the economic outlook that is coming out of the white house today. what's that message from the administration, monica? >> reporter: alex, for weeks we've heard the president say the cure cannot be worse than the di