contact tracie ining program. a big part of this is we have this issue of not trusting the centralized authority, not trusting the government, and not wanting to hand over public health information. but to the extent that people are willing to trust the government, they're much more willing to trust the cdc and the public health officials than they are the politicians and when you put it to the federal government more generally. that kind of gets to the point you were just talking about. to the extent that people are willing to put their data in people's hands, they're much more willing to give it to the likes of dr. fauci and dr. birx than they are the political figures that they see. >> yeah, and you bring up a good point there, as i was going to make. americans do share everything on facebook, on twitter, on instagram, despite all of that. >> it is remarkable, isn't it? >> it is so remarkable. thank you, jonathan. i'm guilty of it, as well, by

the way. we'll be reading axios am in a little bit. signup.axios.com. that does it for me on this tuesday morning. i'm yasmin vossoughian. "morning joe" starts right now. this judge is giving us unfair laws. now i say why. well, i'm building a wall, okay? it's a wall between mexico, not another country. >> he's not from mexico. he's from indiana. >> in my opinion -- mexican heritage, and he is very proud of it. maybe that's a question you should ask china. don't ask me, ask china that question, okay? when you ask them that question, you may get a very unusual answer. behind you, please. >> sir, why are you saying that to me, specifically? >> donald trump in 2016 and yesterday from the white house podium. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, may 12th. what a moment that was. along with joe, willie, and me,

we have pulitzer prize-winning columnist and associate editor of "washington post" and msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. we'll have more on trump's 2020 version of his judge curiel moment just ahead. first, when the president wasn't brushing back reporter questions with extremely racist responses, he was telling more lies about a number of coronavirus issues. he said that the numbers are coming down very rapidly all throughout the country, by the way. >> that's a lie. >> white house data contradicts that. we'll have the new numbers for you in a moment. they do not reflect what the president said. he has suggested repeatedly that children are in the clear, yet the cdc's own findings prove otherwise. he said that america leads the world in testing. false. iceland, italy, germany, and canada all test more per person. he echoed his favorite false claim, continuing to repeat his

infamous march 6th statement. that anyone who wants a test can get one. >> anybody, right now and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. they're there. they have the tests. the tests are beautiful. anybody that needs a test gets a test. if people want to get tested, they get tested. we have the greatest capacity in the world. not even close. if people want to get tested, they get tested. for the most part, they shouldn't want to get tested. >> it's not true. and his claim on the u.s. death rate from the virus was wildly off base. >> i think one of the things we're most proud of is -- this just came in -- deaths per 100,000 people. deaths per 100,000 people. germany and the united states are at the lowest wrung of that

ladder, meaning, low is a positive, not a negative. germany and the united states are the two best in deaths per 100,000 people. which, frankly, to me, that's perhaps the most important number there is. >> except it's wrong. >> okay. i just want to connect on just the last thing the president said here. willie, he said, "that's, perhaps, the most important stat that we have." and i guess i'd agree with him. his only problem is, he said we're tied for first with germany. close. okay, not that close. if you actually look at the johns hopkins information here, we -- these are the worst mortality rates in the world, willie, out of 140 countries. i'm not good in math, okay?

i'm not a harvard boy. i went to alabama. i think 140 minus 9 still is 131. we're not first in the world. out of the 140 countries that johns hopkins university is following, we rank 131 in mortality rates. you combine that with what he said about this mysterious childhood illness, and says, "well, at least they're all recovering." his own testing director had to say, "no, mr. president, that's wrong." you get what he said about testing. they had signs, the best in the world. we're not. we're still behind. as mika said, we're like fifth in the world on that. making some progress, but still far behind. you look at all these claims. it was another afternoon press conference -- >> it was awful. >> -- and another pack of lies

from a man who told 18,000 lies. it's interesting, willie, that you have all these anti, anti-trump posers, who pull out their fainting couches any time anyone in the media makes a mistake.fainting couches are not used, certainly don't worry about the president's 18,000 lies. or these lies during the worst crisis the united states has faced since world war ii. yesterday was an astounding blizzard of lies from the president of the united states. >> yeah. easily demonstrable lies, too. the president, yesterday, showed he is living in a parallel universe, where he is trying to wish away, again, a global pandemic. you can't do it. we have the numbers. we can show you that we're not first in the world in death rate. we're 131st in death rate. he said on testing, we have met the moment, and we have prevailed. if that doesn't say to you, "i

want to turn the corner on this and pretend it's not happening," nothing else does. he's wrong on the facts. he was wrong on almost everything he said yesterday, including on testing, including the death rates, and including on the number of cases in this country, which is really important. he wants it to appear, by the words he expresses, that this thing is going away, that we have it under control. case, cases, as we said many times, are down in coastal places and new york city, but we're showing new evidence from his own task force that shows it is popping up across the country, just as many people predicted. again, data from his own task force showing that, not us. >> willie, that's the astounding thing here. h when we talk about, on this show, the need for america to reopen, but reopen safely, as i say all the time, i'm not talking about nancy pelosi's

standards she put out there. >> not politics. >> i'm not talking about the "nation" magazine's standards. i'm not talking about the young marxist league of greater manhattan's standards for reopening the government. i'm talking about donald trump's own standards that donald trump set out a couple of weeks ago. it's his own standards we're going by. these numbers, for the most part, are usually his own numbers. yet, time and time again, he's wildly off base. time and time again, he is wrong. as you say, time and time again, he's wishing this away. i wrote a column in the "washington post" a couple weeks ago, talking about the year of magical thinking. borrowed that from a joan di din memoir. he also said this isn't coming back in the fall, when just

about every person of science, just about every doctor that knows what they're talking about, health care experts say this fall will likely be the worst wave. in some models, the fall will actually be worse than what we've just endured. >> yeah, there's optimism, which you want from a leader and from a president, and then there's lying about the data to try to project something that's not there. that's what the president was doing up there yesterday. because the nation's top infectious disease expert intends to warn the senate that americans would experience needless suffering and death if the country opens up too quickly. dr. anthony fauci expected to make his first appearance before congress since president trump declared a national emergency in march, when he testifies remotely at a high-profile hearing before the committee today. dr. fauci, according to the "times," plans to warn against the extreme dangers if the

country opens too quickly. fauci previewed his message to senators. quote, if we skip over the checkpoints and the guidelines to open america again, then we risk the danger of multiple outbreaks throughout the country. this will not only result in needless suffering and death, but would actually set us back on our quest to return to normal. again, that is dr. anthony fauci of the president's white house task force in this pandemic. let's bring in former white house adviser for health policy, professor and part of the global initiatives at university of pennsylvania, zeke emanuel, senior and medical contributor. good to see you. we can get into what dr. fauci will say today. first, what you heard from the president yesterday on testing, on the number of cases, and on the death rate, what did you make of his view of this pandemic? >> well, you know, i think as you guys accurately said, it is not clear where he is getting his data.

just on the testing, i think there are 25 countries that have tested on the per capita basis more than we have. you listed some of them, germany, iceland, israel. he's not engaging with the data, and he is not even attempting to engage with the data. i mean, if you get one piece of data wrong, we understand. when you -- it's a whole series of things, you're just trying to imagine something different than reality. the fact about science is, you can't deny it. it comes back and will bite you because it's reality. i would also say one thing. we now have 30 states that are opening up. almost all of them have failed president trump's task force criteria for opening. either their number of cases are going up rather than having the week decline as required, or their percentage of positive

cases are going up, indicating they're actually finding more cases in the population. so these are very pbad indicators. i think it is what is making tony fauci very nervous about opening these states up. because you have a few cases, and then we get into the exponential growth. it's the few cases you need to pay attention to, not wait for your exponential growth before you take action. unfortunately, i think politicians are very eager to open up and not waiting for -- >> so, zeke, you're exactly right. you have to weigh -- the president is the best example of this, how you need to focus on a few cases. it was the president who still goes around yelling, going, "i was supposed to shut down the economy when there were no cases? there were no cases and no deaths." yes, exactly. when you see the storm coming,

you prepare for it. gene robinson, it's like when a hurricane is coming, you don't wait for the deaths on shore to start planning. if you know the hurricane is coming, you start boarding up a week ahead of time. donald trump still doesn't understand this about the pandemic. >> by the way, hurricane is here. >> let me say this again. the trump liars got out their fainting couches when i said that everybody knew in early january. it's all i said to zeke emanuel one time. everybody said i was a liar, a sociopath. the fainting couches for the trump apologists and russian idiots and bots, all shocked. in early january, the warnings began going through the trump administration, the state department, cdc, fda, the hhs. i could continue from early january. yet, the president is still

claiming he shouldn't have done anything because there were no deaths yet in the united states. you plan for the hurricane when it is offshore, not after everybody is dying. but, you know, gene, these lies one after another after another after another yesterday. again, the fainting couches for people upset about jimmy kimmel videos. they were shocked about that, which i actually, being dad, i was running around and saw it retweeted. i un-retweeted and apologized. that was the end of the republic. how can we survive from the lies of late night shows being retweeted by the cable news hosts? how can the republic go on? yet, donald trump lied repeatedly. >> lied about lies. >> said the most important

matrix we have were the number of deaths per 100,000, and in that, we're number one. except, no. as johns hopkins says, we're 131 out of 140. if that's the most important matrix, gene, we're doing a pretty bad job. one other thing. i know you're saying, "joe has to have at least one more thing to say." gene, you're right, i do. >> i knew it. >> dr. fauci, he's coming forward with guidelines today. >> yeah. >> and he's coming forward with donald trump's guidelines. he's coming forward with the white house guidelines. we had zeke talk about it. let me just share really quickly, and then i promise, i'm going to throw the football to you and let you run as long as you want. dr. fauci, among his recommendations, and among donald trump -- these are donald trump's recommendations, by the

way, conspiracy therapists out there, who think that dr. fauci is somehow profiting off of this or bill gates is profiting off of this, and libtards want to keep the government in charge. this, donald trump's plans to reopen america. what's one of donald trump's guidelines to reopen america? states should have a downward trajectory of positive tests or a downward trajectory of documented cases of coronavirus over two weeks, says donald trump. while conducting robust contact tracing and seurveillance testing, says donald trump, especially in vulnerable populations like nursing homes, says donald trump. libtard, donald trump is the one that is putting these

recommendations out that dr. fauci going to talk about today, that trumpists on their fainting couches across america are freaking out about. they're donald trump's own guidelines. let's see this, the white house plan for opening up america. you can almost -- with that title, the former republican in me can almost hear lee greenwood singing in the background. opening up america. i love lee greenwood, by the way. but, gene, these are the president's own guidelines. people are freaking out, taking military style weapons to state legislators, screaming and threatening and attacking police officers, yelling in their face, threatening their lives. because these states actually took the president at his word,

and they're trying to follow the white house guidelines. gene, i toss the football to you. >> okay. >> this is a year of magical thinking continued, isn't it? >> it is magical thinking. it is continuing. so let's -- you talk about the president's own guidelines. let's talk about the president's own house. the coronavirus has entered the president's own house. katie miller, vice president pence's spokeswoman. one of the president's valets. it is, of course, necessary to keep the white house functioning in this time. al bee albeit, with a president isn't live all the time. but you have to keep the white house going. they've engineered a way to do it, right? everybody is going to get tested every day.

they have very quick, rapid contact tracing, so people who are in contact with katie miller, deborah booth from vice president pence's plane. now, the president is encouraging governors to open up workplaces across the country that have no such security measures, safety measures. they don't have, you know, tracing, enough testing, enough contact tracing. so let's ask the president about that. of course, he would probably just lie. i mean, i like your hurricane metaphor. what we have been doing, essentially, we did not board up the windows before the hurricane hit. we should have. you know, the first stirrings of wind.

south korea, for example, boarded up the windows haand ha had a much better outcome than we did. we didn't board up the windows when the wind was blowing 100 miles an hour. that's what we've been trying to do. as a result, we sustained a lot of damage. and, so now, we're supposed to -- as the hurricane continues to rage, we're supposed to just stop. we finally maybe started, maybe we're starting to bend the curve some. maybe, we can hope. then we're supposed to give up and let the roof be blown off, i guess. it is astoundingly stupid. as dr. fauci is expected to say, it is going the lead to needless death and suffering. >> well, you know, willie, continuing this wonderful hurricane metaphor, the president was warned. the president was showing the hurricane was coming, and the

president was warned repeatedly, "hurricane is coming." state department warned him. pentagon warned him. intel community warned him. hhs director warned him. >> so many warnings. >> national security counskurec warned him. repeatedly warned throughout january. i don't know if you knew this or not, willie, but january 22nd, the president said in davos, "we only have one person. they came in from china. and, well, it's going away. we're going to be fine. we got it completely under control." then right after that, he talked about how great president xi was. i don't know if you knew that. there's a lot of talk about china right now. the president, of course, making a racist comment to an american reporter, trying to somehow insult her payobecause of her heritage, just like judge curiel.

he said this on the 22nd. couple days later, president trump thanked president xi, sort of bent over backwards, in fact, thanking president xi. saying that he was completely transparent, and thichina, completely transparent. he said, "china has been working very hard to contain the virus." donald trump says, "the united states greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency." >> donald trump said, it'll all work out well. in particular, on behalf of the american people, i want to thank president xi. that didn't happened. at the time he was ckowtowing president xi, people in his administration were trying to get president xi's people to work with them so we could prepare for the hurricane. they refused to do it. president trump kept saying for

another month, "it is only 11 cases. soon, it'll be down to zero." the hurricane is coming closer to shore. he told african-american leaders, "this is going to go away like magic. nothing to worry about." >> it is a hoax. >> asked in march about it, at the same time people on another network were saying this is the media's latest hoax to try to bring down donald trump. donald trump was saying, at the same time, "i'm not worried about it at all." he said that in march. as the hurricane got closer and closer to shore, willie. everybody was warning him that this hurricane was going to hit. even navarro said 500,000 souls might be lost. >> yeah. to go back to january, the president was closing his eyes and wishing this away, and he's still doing it as of last night, as of yesterday at the press briefing. he also, by the way, was left by the obama administration, written in 2016, a playbook for exactly what to do when this

hit, paced on their experience with h1n1 and others. despite what mitch mcconnell said yesterday, there was, in fact, a playbook, so when the first signs came from china and south korea, the government would know where to begin. meanwhile, new data shows coronavirus infection rates are spiking to new highs in several metropolitan areas and smaller communities across the country. that's according to undisclosed data from the white house pandemic task force, that it is using to track rates of infection, and which nbc news now has obtained. the numbers contradict president trump, who claimed yesterday infection rates are coming town rapidly nationwide. according to last week's report, the heartland recorded surges of nearly 75% over a seven-d hfsev period. it includes nashville, amarillo, texas. on top of the list with a 650% increase, central city kentucky. joining us from the white house, senior white house reporter for

n bc news digital, shannon pet y pettypiece. you watched the briefing yesterday. i know the president wishing this away with statistics not based in reality. in fact, it contradicts the data from his own white house task force. not outside data, not some model he can push to the side, but the white house data that shows cases are spiking across the country, not going away, as he said yesterday. >> reporter: i asked the president in that briefing yesterday, "what are you going to do to get cases and deaths down?" again, he said, "they are going down. we had one of our best weekends yet." oftentimes, you see numbers go down over the weekend only to come back up during the week when reporting picks up. another big development at the white house yesterday that conflicts this message that the president is trying to give, of a country ready to reopen, of a crisis that is moving behind us, is the fact that the white house is now requiring all staffers to wear masks when they enter the

we west wing. a memo was sent out to employees yesterday afternoon, telling them, first, to stay home if they don't have to come to the white house to conduct business. if they do come in, they're required to wear a mask when they can't socially distance. we will see if the president, who is not a staffer, is going to follow that recommendation. that's still to be seen. we haven't seen him in any public meetings or travel yet. hopefully we'll get a sense of that later on this week. many americans have already opinion wearing masks. this will be a change in the west wing. despite how cramped the quarters are there, narrow hallways and small working spaces, very few staffers have been wearing masks so far. that definitely changed yesterday in the rose garden. i saw every staffer, including jared kushner and the head of hhs, were all wearing masks yesterday. >> shannon, what is the level of concern? there's been some reporting that people at the white house, some people are scared to go to work

because of vice president pence's spokesperson attracting the virus. military valet for president trump contracting the virus. president trump believes he is projecting strength by not wearing a mask. what about everyone else? >> reporter: kevin hassett, his economic adviser, said he was essentially scared to come to the office. he said that over the weekend. one staffer yesterday said things were quiet around the white house. it wasn't people running around with their hair on fire like it is sometimes at the white house, but just very quiet and somber. yes, the irony was felt, that they were now in the white house grappling with this issue, trying to tell the country this is something we can move past and something behind us. a lot of people are going to continue to come to work here, i am told. access is power here. one staffer told me a long time ago, if you can't hear the president yell, you're not in the inner circle. in order for people to run

interference, make sure their issues and agenda stay on the front burner, they'll continue coming to the white house, even if they are concerned or have questions about the safety and level of cleanliness that's going on. the administration has stepped up cleaning. i will say that, as well. >> shannon pettypiece outside the white house, thank you so much. dr. emmanuel, we will hear from dr. fauci at a senate hearing over teleconference that he is concerned of the country skipping over the white house guidelines, opening too quickly, and leading to an outbreak across the country. then we'd have to shut things down again. you mentioned some 30 states will be opening in some form slowly, most of them. what is a safe way? what number should we be looking at, where we can start to say, "all right, yes, it is safe to open up"? what would dr. fauci say about that? >> the white house guidelines have three criteria.

the main criteria is the number of new cases which are happening, going down over a two-week period, or the percentage of people tested declining. we've been having a very high percentage, which indicates we're only testing the most severely ill people. you want to see that decline. you also want to see hospital capacity, so you can deal with a surge if you get into the exponential increase. you want to see the number of people in the hospital with covid going down, again, over a two-week period. what we are seeing is that most states that are opening actually don't have -- meet these criteria. there's a handful of states. i think you mentioned, you know, we're seeing a decline in new york. there are other places that you just listed that are actually having rapid increases in states that are planning to reopen or actually, in the case of iowa, it never really shut down.

these are all indications that people actually aren't adhering to the president's own guidelines. you are getting a contradictory message. the president, on the one hand, issuing this, you know, plan to reopen america with strict dating criteria. then himself encouraging opening. i've talked to a number of economists, i might add, about reopening. they, too, want to open the economy up and get it going. no one wants a terrible recession or depression. to a person, they say that the main inter vengs vention to ope is the public health crisis. you have to have consumers confident to go out and shop. if you think you're going to get sick and die by shopping, you're not going to do it. we've seen that in the data.i p in place issues, americans were cutting back. there's contradictory talk coming out of the white house, and it is hard for people to

sort it through. >> dr. zeke emanuel, thank you very much for being on this morning. a final note from this crazy news conference with, as you pointed out, joe, the blizzard of lies put out by the president. he seemed to sort of melt down and lose his pebearings upon questioning by two women reporters. they happened to be women. >> rattled by that. >> super rattled. had this weird, racist response to a cbs reporter, weijia jiang. "ask china," looking straight at her. she was like, "what is wrong with you, seriously? why would you say that?" he said it in a leering, ugly, nasty way. he accused her of being nasty. kaitlin collins tried to ask her question, and he literally left and retreated back into the white house. he seemed to crumble under it all. he didn't like the way it was going, so he stormed off. i mean, he focuses on women reporters a lot. >> he really does. >> these women are great reporters. they're strong. they're fine. the question is, what's going on

with him? >> yeah. >> we're talking about lives. >> it's not good. >> there's suffering, and there's death across the country. the president seems so consumed with how women, apparently, frame how he looks to the american public. he seems to sort of lose it in real time. >> boy. >> it's very disturbing. it's freaking nuts. >> he sure looked weak. also, of course -- >> really weird. >> -- what a racist response to a cbs reporter. i think she's from west virginia, if i'm not mistaken. do a fact-check on that, if you will, alex. i don't want any fainting couches to be trotted out at pro-trump, anti anti-trump websites. maybe she's from virginia, maybe west virginia. >> he loses it, especially with the women. >> if you can find out which side of the virginia/west virginia border it is. i don't want people to freak

out. they're not going to talk about all of donald trump's lies yesterday, which have an impact on the health of americans. gene robinson, i couldn't help but when i heard him say, "ask china" to a cbs news reporter -- >> it was so weird. >> -- it reminded me so much of judge curiel. he said, "i can't trust him. he's from mexico." well, no, he's from indiana. his parents were from mexico. but he was an american. right? but, gene, here's what's so interesting. when donald trump made what paul ryan called the epitome of a racist comment about judge curiel -- and, of course, he endorsed him before that, i guess -- but you had republicans actually speaking out against said racist comment. we know where the republican party has gone the last three

and a half years. the reason why republicans look like they'll be trounced in the senate in arizona, colorado, maine, north carolina, and a lot of other states that republicans should win. it's because nobody is saying anything now. trump's racism is now baked into the cake for these republican senators. none of them spoke out yesterday. i mean, we can check and see if they did. i'd love to know. again, i don't want the anti anti-trumpers to go on their fainting couches there, if i got that one wrong. but not the protest we heard on judge curiel which shows, again, just how used to the racism the republican party has gotten. >> yeah. the party is completely on the trump train. i mean, it really is shocking. we can't become immune to this level of abrasiveness coming from the president of the united states. >> no. >> it's just blatant.

it is right out there. he keeps doing it over and over and over again. that's clearly what he really thinks. now, it's clearly what the republican party thinks. i mean, if the republican party gets the trouncing that polls suggest it is going to get in november, it will be so richly deserved. it is basically abdicated any sense of responsibility, sense of community, any sense of duty to donald trumpism, which is a toxic political philosophy, if you can call it that. and just deserves to be beaten into submission at the polls on -- in november. it really does. it's stunning. we should -- we should not just

sort of flit past these moments, when the quiet part gets said out loud. >> let's take a look right now at that moment that we were talking about. here's the president. >> -- many times that the u.s. is doing far better than any other country when it comes to testing. >> yes. >> why does that matter? why is this a global competition to you, if every day, a americans are still losing their lives and we're still seeing more cases every day? >> well, they're losing their lives everywhere in the world. maybe that's a question you should ask china. don't ask me, ask china that question, okay? when you ask them that question, you may get a very unusual answer. yes, behind you, please. >> sir, why are you saying that to me, specifically? >> i'm telling you. >> that i should ask china. >> i'm not saying it specifically to anybody. i'm saying it to anybody that would ask a nasty question. >> that's not a nasty question.

>> please go ahead. >> why does it matter? >> anybody else? please, go ahead. >> i have two questions. >> no, it's okay. >> you pointed to me. i have two questions, mr. president. >> next, please. >> but you called on me. >> i did, and you didn't respond. now, i'm calling on -- >> i wanted to -- >> -- the young lady in the back. >> i wanted to let my colleague finish. >> ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much. appreciate it. >> but you called on me. >> he literally can't take it. >> he got chased off. he got chased off by two reporters. kaitlin collins, actually, asked him a question -- >> and he ran away. >> like he'd say, like a little baby. unbelievable. >> didn't like how it was going. >> again, i just -- i know, donald, you watch the show a lot. >> it'd be funny if it wasn't so sad. >> poor thing. i keep asking you to stop watching our show. >> stop tweeting. stop watching. >> it'd really help. >> go away. please go away. >> i've been asking for years.

it is best for america that you don't watch our show. >> please leave us alone. >> please, stop. but, again, it was just such an un-american thing to say. because a reporter was born in china, came here when she was -- immigrated here, just like donald trump's family immigrated from germany here. donald trump's mom immigrated here when she was young. but you have a reporter from west virginia, an american, and donald trump is going after her and saying, "why don't you ask chi china?" it is a judge curiel moment. not one republican senator that i know of yet -- please let me know if that changes -- has spoken out on this. i don't know if republican house members have. we have to check and see. let's look at this clip again and see where the republican party has gotten, and then we'll kind of figure out why asian-americans, who used to

like voting republican, have moved so quickly away from donald trump over the past several years. because of this and other things, going to keep moving away from donald trump. let's take a look at this racist clip again. >> him running away. >> in the the president of the united states. >> like a little baby. >> the president of the united states, republicans, said this. this is your president. this is your party. you're taking him into november with you. >> you said many times that the u.s. is doing far better than any other country when it comes to testing. >> yes. >> why does that matter? why is this a global competition to you, if every day, americans are still losing their lives and we're still seeing more cases every day? >> well, they're losing their lives everywhere in the world. maybe that's a question you should ask china. don't ask me. ask china that question, okay? when you ask them that question, you may get a very unusual answer. yes, behind you, please.

>> sir, why are you saying that to me, specifically? >> i'm telling you. >> that i should ask china. >> i'm not saying it specifically to anybody. i'm saying it to anybody that would ask a nasty question like this. >> it's not a nasty question. why does it matter when -- >> anybody else. >> please, go ahead in the back. >> i have two questions. >> no, that's okay. >> you pointed to me. i have two questions, mr. president. >> next, please. >> but you called on me. >> i did. you didn't respond. now i'm calling on the young lady in the back. please? >> i wanted to let me colleague finish. >> okay. ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much. appreciate it. >> but you called on me. >> thank you very much. >> what a weak, weak man. such weakness. i've never seen. >> running off. joining us now, nbc news and capitol hill correspondent, host of "kasie d.c." on msnbc on sunday nights, kasie hunt. and opinion columnist and former senior adviser for the house oversight and government reform committee, kurt var delbardella.

he is a "morning joe" contributor. >> kasie hunt, the news keeps getting worse for senate and house republicans, who see their numbers going down the drain. certainly in a lot of the key senate races, in arizona, in colorado, in montana, in maine, in north carolina, in states across the country. i mean, you have two races in georgia where donald trump right now is tied with joe biden. same with texas, tied with joe biden in a dallas morning news poll i saw. the president comes out yesterday insulting an asian-american reporter, an american, an american, and says she should ask china. by the way, it was a -- that had nothing to do with the question she asked anyway. just hurled out something he considered to be a racist insult. first of all, fact-check me. have any republicans come out and condemned the president like they did with judge curiel, with his racist judge curiel

comments, or are they all staying silent? >> reporter: so far, joe, i haven't seen anything. i mean, i haven't spoken to all 535 members of congress about this yet. you know, nothing has stood out. i mean, would you be surprised to learn they didn't say much? i mean, that's sort of been the m.o. for most of them. >> well, what surprises me though, kasie, is they're bleeding support across the porpor board. we've seen one story after another. we've seen internal polls, even at the white house, showing he is bleeding support. he is thinking about firing his campaign manager according to some reports. he's angry inside the white house. we're hearing the same on capitol hill. these republicans are starting to really worry that they're going to go down the drain with donald trump. the question is, why don't they separate themselves from a president who proved to be toxic in 2018 and who obviously is going to be toxic in 2020?

i don't understand the holdup still. some of these people are past their primaries. >> reporter: yeah, joe, i saw the report, too. one of the things that sort of piqued my interest is the white house, that report suggests the white house is concerned that they might lose this universal support they've had from senate republicans. you know what? i'm going to believe it when i see it. they're in the same position they've been all the way along, which is, they're dammed if they do, damm nedamned if they don't. the more the questions around whether you wear a mask or not, and the protests we're seeing, the cultural divisions getting more and more intense, more and more partisan, more questions about whether you support the president or you don't, the more that phenomenon will continue to be the case. the base of the republican party still remains with donald trump. republicans' problem is that,

you know, this pandemic has the entire country across the borden gauged and concerned and worried about the decisions that their leaders are making every day. they can no longer afford to ignore what has been a partisan and difficult, you know, period for our country. if they tuned this out, they no longer have that luxury. they are losing members of their families. this is a real dilemma for republicans on the hill. if you told me a few months ago -- obviously, many things have changed in the light of this pandemic -- but republicans were not significantly concerned about losing control of the senate. mitch mcconnell was not concerned about losing his job asth majority leader, becoming e minority leader. he was probably less worried about his own re-election chances in kentucky back home. that reality is completely different now. there is a real chance that, you know, we wake up on election day, and not only do we

potentially have a tircdifferen president, but we have a different majority party in the senate. that really is saying a lot. you know, a lot of these races, these are not states that are -- they're swing states. arizona, maine, montana. normally, you'd think incumbents in those states would be relatively states, especially when you have an incumbent president on the ballot. it says a lot that that's not the case anymore. >> yeah. it does -- the president makes it worse. it's not the pandemic. it is the president's terrible response to the pandemic. kurt, asian-american voters used to actually like voting for the republican party. they were one demographic group, other than white people, who liked voting for republicans. some areas, actually reliable republican votes.

in 2014, 49% of asian-american voters backed democratic house candidates. a little under the majority. after two years of donald trump's presidency, that number jumped up to 77%. after yesterday's display, i wonder how much high ther it go kurt. this is a self-inflicted wound by republicans that is going to have terrible consequences for them across the country. >> well, hey, joe, i used to be one of those republican asian-americans who voted republican. i certainly am not anymore. here's the thing that the republican party is missing, the asian-american community is the fastest growing racial group in america. from 2000 to 2015, they grew by 72%. the fact that -- and you pointed

this out -- with republicans standing by letting this happen, not speaking out about it, not condemning donald trump's racism and cowardice, they are leaving the asian-american community, along with all people of color, no alternative at all but to vote democratic. there is no motivation, no reason, no realistic way that any minority voter in this country could, in good conscious, vote for donald trump and anybody with an "r" next to their name who, in their silence, condones this racism. they are complicit in it by not standing up and saying that this is wrong. when you don't do that, you're saying you agree with it. you support it. as we get closer to november, and as joe biden's poll numbers continue to grow, and donald trump looks worse and worse, i think what we saw yesterday in the rose garden is just going to be fodder for what we're going to see going forward from donald

trump and the republican party. the only message they have now is blame and fear. they can't talk about successes. they can't talk about accomplishment. they can't talk about anything as the death toll rises and their pure incompetence makes this pandemic worse. the only thing they can do is resort to a playbook they tried in 2016, of blame and fear. of using racial divisions and prejudice and xenophobia to try to distract away from their unbelievable failures that are costing people lives. i don't think it'll work in 2020. donald trump likes to talk so much about the 2016 election. you never hear him talk about the 2018 election, when 40 republicans lost their seats to democrats. voting populations came out in record numbers. people of color and minorities and asian-american community went, as you pointed out, so far for the democratic party. as they keep this up, they'll put themselves in the permanent minority status. >> as we spent the last hour or so fact checking the charade of a press conference yesterday, where the president was wrong about cases, about death rates,

and about testing, top of mind for the president right now, he's up tweeting about bill maher's ratings, saying, quote, show sucks. president of the united states tweeting about bill maher's ratings and what he thinks of that particular show. kasie, meanwhile, dr. anthony fauci who, again, sits next to the president on the task force -- he is the white house task force doctor -- is going to be testifying before a senate committee via teleconference today about his concerns about reopening the economy. within the space of about 12, 18 hours, you'll have the president giving that prsz cess conferenc giving bad information, "we can prevailed on testing," and dr. fauci will slam on the brakes and say, "not so fast." >> willie, the reason that dr. fauci wasn't available to be in the rose garden is because the white house hasn't been

following the same set of precautions that they have been telling the rest of america to follow. i mean, dr. fauci and his colleagues, dr. redfield and others, are not going to be able to appear in person because they are in a form, and each have a different situation, but they're self-quarantining. they'll appear via videoconference, as the chairman of the health committee because one of his aides tested positive. the message that the president was sending from the podium yesterday to americans is very different from the reality that's even being experienced inside the west wing. this is not dr. fauci's first rodeo, by the way. he's testified before congress dozens of times. he has a reputation for not being provocative toward his bosses in the administration but for being very straight forward.

i think he emailed the reporter at the "new york times" directly, to say this was going to be his message. that kind of tells you how used to operating in this kind of an environment dr. fauci is. i think the question is going to be, are americans going to be tuning into this hearing to listen to that advice? that's where they'll have to go for it right now. they're not getting it from the white house. i think for the senators who are having to answer for their constituents, who are fielding calls from hospitals short on ppe, who are from across the country, from places where the rates of infection are going up, deaths are going up, the curve is going in the wrong direction, there's so much at stake here. i think fauci, in the brief email, underscored, without being sharply critical of the president, without engaging in the politics, really underscored the health realities here.

>> he's gotten good at that diplomacy. not criticizing the president but being persistent with what he says. kurt bardella, you've prepared for the congressional hearings. what kind of questioning do you expect not just from democrats but from republicans on the senate committee of dr. fauci? do you expect them to push him and say, "wait a minute, yes, we ought to reopen," as the president says? >> no doubt, republicans are going to try to make every case they can. it is not an en vviable frankly, to find any encouraging data points to suggest things are getting better and the president's, quote, unquote, leadership is the result of that. dr. fauci has been doing, i think, a very good job of the diplomatic balance he has to make. if i were democratic senators, my strategy would be to read direct quotes from president trump and ask dr. fauci, yes or no, is the president right or wrong? is the president being truthful when he says x, y, or z?

the president tells so many lie on a daily basis, especially during the so-called press briefings, that it creates an army of information. democratic senators will have to replay and repeat his own words and dare the experts, dr. fauci, the head of the cdc, head of the fda, to either stand by those statements or say that they aren't true. it is possible at the end of the hearing a lot of the headlines will be dr. fauci contradicts trump, which frankly might mean by the end of the week, dr. fauci might not have a job, the way donald trump operates. >> the thing is, what republicans need to be careful about, is that before they start attacking the libtards, start attacking with conspiracy theories, dr. fauci payoff his testimo testimony, they need to understand this. the white house plan, quote, opening up america. states should, quote, have a downward trajectory of positive

tests or a downward trajectory of documented cases of coronavirus over two weeks. while conducting the robust contact tracing and surveillance testing of asymptomatic people. asymptomatic people, not what donald trump said yesterday. asymptomatic people in vulnerable populations, such as nursing homes. again, who was the libtard that wrote up these guidelines, that approved these guy pidelines an announced them to america? donald j. trump. the guy that's chased off the stage by women reporters. i mean, he gets upset, makes racist comments to american reporters who grew up in west virginia. >> such a collapse. >> he sure looked tweet. >> he just tweeted about you, joe. >> donald, i'm going to ask you

one more time. if you could, donald -- >> please leave us alone, for yourself. >> for your sake, donald, as i've been saying for years, for your sake and the sake of america, you need to stop watching our show. okay? it's not good for you. i think that might be why you go out and you're distracted. you're tweeting so much. you should maybe read the johns hopkins study on deaths per 100,000. donald, you said yourself that was the most important matrix. well, the most important measurement. you said, that's the most important measurement, to see how you're doing. well, according to johns hopkins, you read it wrong, actually. you read that chart wrong. johns hopkins says we're 131 out of 140 countries measured.

not ltied with germany for firs. 131 out of 140 countries in deaths per 100,000. the matrix, the measurement that you say is the most important measurement. why don't you stop tweeting? why don't you turn off the television, and why don't you start working, okay? you do your job, we'll do ours. america will be much better off for that. just go. turn off the tv, donald. >> he can't do it. >> km come on. we'll be right back. turn it off. that's why, at cancer treatment centers of america, we aren't waiting. we're right here, still focused on the only thing we do, providing world-class cancer care, all under one roof.

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♪ live pictures of the white house, where the president is up and -- >> melting down. >> -- tweeting ferociously this morning. welcome back to "morning joe."

it's tuesday, may 12th. kasie hunt is still with us, nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of "kasie d.c." sunday morning. we have national affairs analyst, co-host of "the circus" on showtime, and editor in chief of "the recount," john heilemann. from the fletcher school of law and diplomacy at tufts university, daniel drezner. author of "the toddler in chief: what donald trump teaches us about the modern presidency." what a great day to have dan on. it is matching the cover of his book. >> it is. he is throwing out conspiracy theories. i'm sort of honored to be in the same place where barack obama is. he is throwing out conspiracy theories, lying about people. he's desperate to distract from the fact that he got caught in lie after lie after lie yesterday. of course, bragged about the most important measurement being deaths per 100,000.

said we were tied with germany at the top. instead, we're 131 out of 140 countries, according to johns hopkins. willie, new cnn poll just came out that show only 36% of americans believe what donald trump tells them about the coronavirus. this is why donald trump's numbers are going down. this is why his swing state numbers are collapsing. this is why he's tied with biden in georgia. this is why he's tied with biden in texas. nobody, except for his most hard core 36%, believe what he is saying about the most important crisis, the biggest crisis we've faced since world war ii. >> well, that new cnn poll you're talking about gives him a 45% approval rating, which is strong for him. only 36% of americans believe what he's saying. that means there's a significant chunk of people who approve of the job he's doing but don't

believe anything he is saying about the coronavirus. the poll shows, like many other polls show, too, that people's lives have been touched by this. they know someone who has coronavirus. it also shows that they're not quite ready to leap back in. they want to go back to work, of course, and frequent their favorite restaurants. they understand what dr. fauci has been saying and will say again in the senate hearing, that it is not safe to fully reopen our society. why don't americans believe what he is saying, joe? because of yesterday. play the tape, start to finish, of yesterday. wrong on just about everything he said, as we tries to wish this away. this morning, as we're in the middle of a crisis, he's tweeting about you and bill maher. that's where his head is right now. joe scarborough and bill maher, as veteran facilities are wiped out. we don't have a national testing program. we've got nothing that we need to beat this pandemic. his head is on cable news right now. >> how sad. >> okay. the biden campaign is out

with a new ad that lays out how donald trump downplayed the covid-19 crisis in the early months of the year. the new digital ad is powerful. it'll run statewide on facebook, instagram, and youtube in pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, florida, north carolina, and arizona. it maps out the truth. take a look. >> early january, donald trump is first warned of the virus. he ignores it. >> we have it totally under control. it's going to be just fine. >> defends the chinese government instead. january 30th, trump's own cabinet secretary warns of a pandemic, raising concerns that the chinese government isn't being transparent. trump calls him an alarmist. >> we think we have it very well under control. we're working very closely with china and other countries. we think it is going to have a very good ending for us. >> the next day, the dow

plummets 600 points. desperate to protect the stock market from sliding further, trump continues to deny the threat and praised the chinese government. >> we're doing great in our country. china, i spoke with president xi, and they're working very, very hard. i think it is all going to work out fine. looks like by april, in theory, when it comes a little warmer, it miraculously goes away. >> but global cases more than doubled, spreading to over 24 countries. february 25th, one of the cdc's top experts, nancy messonnior speaks out, it could be a pandemic. >> disruption to everyday life could be severe. i told my children, while i didn't think they were at risk right now. we as a family need to be preparing for significant disruption of our lives. >> mr. trump was , quote, furious, as he watched the stock market crash after her comments. trump didn't with a toup sant t

markets. the trump administration took to the airwaves to deny the truth. >> we have contained this, i won't say airtight, but pretty close to airtight. >> thanks to the president and this team's aggressive containment efforts, this disease is contained. >> february 27th, the market sees through the denials. the dow continuing to plunge. trump keeps up the false message. >> it will go away. just stay calm. it will go away. i think we're going to get through it very well. >> april turns into may. the virus doesn't disappear. there is no miracle. the cases mount. the death toll grows. more than 33 million americans lose their jobs to the pandemic. unemployment reaches great depression era levels. donald trump doesn't understand. we have an economic crisis because we have a public health crisis. we have a public health crisis because he refused to act. donald trump didn't build a great economy.

his failure to lead destroyed one. >> john heilemann, we saw the "recount" put together donald trump's own words. we see the joe biden campaign putting together donald trump's own words. usually, an old saying goes, if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. you would think that, after all of the president's misstatements and lies in january and february and the beginning of march, he'd stop digging. yet, he comes out again yesterday, digs himself a deeper hole. now only about one in three americans believe what he says about the worst crisis in american history since world war ii. which means about two-thirds of americans think he is lying. that's not a very strong way to go into a presidential election campaign. >> yeah. to willie's point, it is amazing that even -- you have this ten-point delta in the poll, the cnn poll between, you know, where he is with his approval

rating, which has been kind of in the general range of where trump has been for all his time in office, and the number of people who believe him on this issue. i think, you know, that, to me, is a leading indicator of where his polling is going to be going in the weeks ahead, right? there's not a question, i don't think, in anyone's mind. you see trump accepts this premise explicitly and has been asked to address it. is this election a referendum on your leadership, the fight against coronavirus? he's hemmed and hawed at various times, but more or less said, i hope it's not just on that. he said to david muir last week, "we've done a great job. it is amorphous." he doesn't have a decent answer to that. it is like kennedy and mudd. you ask someone running for president why they want to be president. ask a president what he wants to be judged on. you hear him, he gets that this is -- even though he won't acknowledge it or own up to it, he gets this is the federal issue of the campaign coming forward. to have on the central issue

this ten-point delta between his approval rating and what people think about him on that central issue suggests a lot of peril for donald trump going forward. that's where the erosion is going to come. if this crisis continues to worsen, as every indication suggests it will under his current policies, is erosion is right there, waiting for tim. the en-point drop from the mid-40s to the mid-30s, many think he's not telling the truth about the central issue of the election. support is not solid, and it puts him in jeopardy heading to november. >> dan drezner, my gosh, you could write another book about the "toddler in chief," just based on donald trump's tweets, not just this morning but over the weekend. here we are, again, and we talked about it. this weekend, he was attacking brian stelter. now, he's attacking me and bill

maher. in the middle of this pandemic. you just -- it's like fdr deciding he was going to go after newspaper writers in the middle of -- on the day after pearl harbor. we're in the middle of this crisis. it may be getting worse. donald trump keeps holding press conferences, spreading misinformation and lies that are easily disproven. he's just not learning from his mistakes. every day is a new opportunity to spread new lies and give joe biden and his campaign more fodder for the fall. >> one of the chapters i have in the "toddler in chief" is about poor impulse control. let's face it, that's how we're seeing the president behave over the last, well, three years, but in particular, the last week. you brought up fdr.

fdr, to be fair, did hate the conservative press when he was president. what fdr was able to do was keep his lip zipped in moments in which he knew that there were bigger issues out there. what is striking about trump is that you combine poor impulse control with a twitter account, and you get what you're seeing right now. which is, despite the fact we are experiencing, you know, a worse economic shock, which you could argue since the stages of the great depression, he is tweeting about cable news, obamagate. he is lashing out in any way he possibly can. he's doing this mostly because he's angry. he is like a toddler throwing a tantrum, in which things aren't going his way. his usual playbook won't work in this instance. if you flash back to last summer, when there were signs that the economy might be buckling, there was that moment where trump really did seem to think that, you know, if he

projected confidence, the stock market would return. he could browbeat the fed into cutting interest rates, and everything would turn out well. to be fair to him, there was a grain of truth to that. the fed started cutting rates. the economy did improve, relatively speaking. but you can't use truthful high person h hyperbole to get out of a pan tell me pandemic. people don't believe him. they don't think he is telling the truth when it comes to the coronavirus. there is this myth, that if governors or presidents lift stay at home requirements or other official edicts about whether or not businesses can open again, people will come back. they're not going to come back. in fact, we've seen the data from states like tennessee or texas or georgia, where restaurants have reopened. you know, you're seeing capacity still 80% or 90% below what it was prior to the pandemic.

that's not dpogoing to be enougf a boost for donald trump or the economy. we go back to the same point we keep having to say over and over and over again since february, which is, the way you get the u.s. economy back is to solve the public health crisis. there's zero evidence that the trump administration has anything in place to solve that public health crisis. >> willie? this "washington post" column about how governors' approval ratings are higher than the president's, it shows mike dewine in ohio doing great. 86% approve. in new york, cuomo, 81% approve. only 18% disapprove. in california, 79% approve. only 20% disapprove. in michigan, 72% approve gretchen whitmer, who donald trump wouldn't mention her name. 72% approve. disa approve, 25%.

pennsylvania's governor yesterday, 72%. 72% after pennsylvanians approve the job he is doing. only 27% disapprove. here's an interesting number. in georgia, kemp, only 39% approve. 61% disapprove. brian kemp, like donald trump, is just winging it. americans know it. >> americans are smart. americans are listening to the doctors. they'll probably listen to dr. fauci today when he testifies before the senate, katie hu kas. when you look inside the cnn poll that came out this morning, that shows the president with a 45% approval rating, only 36% of americans believing what he says, you are seeing, again now, this partisan divide. republicans overwhelmingly support the president.

now, overwhelmingly believe what he says, despite the lies we cataloged in the press conference. data that's just not true. it looks from this poll, and some polls we've seen lately, that merepublicans are drifting back to the president, despite the fact he's not telling truth. >> reporter: well, willie, i think the very unfortunate reality here, and there were republican pollsters that were warning about this in march, is if, in fact, people are taking this advice, and the cases are getting worse, the consequences of believing the president in this case are particularly high and awful. i don't think any of us wants the see that unfold. i think that is a question we're going to have to pay attention to and follow through this. to pick up on what joe was saying about governors and, you know, if you're president trump in a crisis, what i struggle to

wrap my head around is that, ununyoif you're a politician, a leader, a crisis is obviously a challenge, but it is also a huge opportunity to be a leader. you're seeing these governors in these states that have these sky high approval ratings. people are saying that because, yes, their lives are very hard. they are having to grapple with the effects of the pandemic. maybe they lost loved ones. they're stuck in homes taking care of their kids. they're looking at governors and saying, "this person leading my state, doesn't matter if they're a republican or democrat, they're doing the best they can to help me. i see that in my day-to-day life." if you're the president of the united states in a crisis like this, it is an incredible opportunity you have to step and you happen to be able to lead. if you're an incumbent, why is it hard to beat incumbent

presidents? it wasn't happen often. they have the powers of the office at their disposal. they have the ability to step up and lead in a way that any opposing candidate simply doesn't possess. it is very clear from these numbers, when you compare where the president stands to have the governors stand, he has squandered that opportunity in this crisis, joe. >> yeah. he really has. john heilemann, in every major crisis, a president usually sees his numbers go up. donald trump had a slight bump at the beginning of this crisis. with every lie, every misstatement, it's collapsed. i want to physicfollow up with kasie said. mike dewine is at 86% approval rating for the handling of this crisis. cuomo, 81%. gavin newsom, 79%. northam in virginia, 78%. new jersey, 77%. north carolina, 74%. michigan, 72%.

pennsylvania, 72%. i mean, of course, brian kemp in georgia sitting at 39%. only 36% of americans trust what donald trump says about this. there will be a postscript, if donald trump loses in the fall. alex burns with the "times" said this yesterday, "oh, he would have won, but for the coronavirus." there's no reason why this had to have a negative impact on his polling numbers. if you look at the governors' sky high ratings, those that handled this in a way that voters thought inspired confidence, and seemed like even if they made mistakes early on, worked toward a goal of keeping people in those states safe, they were rewarded. donald trump, kemp, some other governors, not rewarded. >> right. i think that's right, joe.

you make the relevant points. number one, historically, the country wants to rally around the president in a crisis. it wants to. it desperately wants to. with the exception of this instance, any time we've faced a severe crisis, presidents have been able to, not in a manipulative way, but they've capitalized on the rally around the white house, rally around the flag, rally around the president impulse americans have. they want even opponents of the president, people who think the president is unfit for office, dangerous, whatever, everyone is rooting for the president to succeed in a scenario like this. we saw a brief moment when trump in the middle of march said, "this is a war. i'm not going to downplay this. we're on war footing. i'm a general in the war." you saw his numbers bounce a little bit for a week or so. then the toll of the lies has been seen ever since. i think, you know, what are the couple of things most people want? you see this in the polling in state after state.

what do they want from the people leading them? they want facts. their families' lives are on the line. they want facts, even if they're inconvenient. even if they're painful facts. even if they are difficult facts to deal with, they want facts, right? the president has avoided facts and misled people. they hear them from governors and authority figures on television. people can tell the difference. they know the president is lying. they don't get the facts they want. the other thing they want is to be brought together in a way that shoes away the normal partisanship and divisions. this is a problem. let's get to work, fix this problem, and keep my kids and me safe, right? the president both lies to them and goes back to his per sepetu playpook of ad playbook of division. he tears people apart, not brings them together.

he is ill-suited for this moment. he lies to people and divides people. those thingings s do not work i face of a kind of life-threatening pandemic. that's what we're seeing right now. >> again, we've said it here before, you can lie about mueller. you can lie about flynn. you can try to pretend that you didn't say that flynn deserved to be fired because he lied to the fbi, and vice president, the vice president. donald trump can do all of that stuff. can't lie about a pandemic. the pandemic doesn't care. the pandemic keeps coming at you until you figure out a way to manage it or cure it. dan drezner, donald trump yesterday, the lies just kept spewing out. he talked about how the most important measurement were deaths by 100,000. claimed that, you know, we were

tied with germany for the best. ends up, as the "washington post" pointed out, we're 131st out of 140 countries. then he made the racist comment towards the asian-american reporter at the end, underlying the fact that he can't quite figure out how to handle this crisis and thinks he can keep insulting people. i'm curious what you think about china, the united states' relationship with china. whether we like it or not, we'll be on the world stage with them for the next 20, 30 years at least. how do we manage that crisis? let's say donald trump weren't in there. let's say it was joe biden or somebody else today. how do you manage this crisis, deal with china, understanding they continue to lack transparency? >> i think the moest telling

thing about the biden ad you ran earlier was the fact that, essenti essentially, biden was trying to out-flank trump in terms of being hawkish on china. it demonstrates the shift in the country's mood. we've seen that in terms of public opinion polling. we've also seen that in the rhetoric coming from washington, not just from republicans but also from democrats. clearly, china is viewed as a hostile threat, in a way that wasn't necessarily the case a year ago. let's face it, the coronavirus originated from there, and they were less than fully transparent in terms of what was going on. that said, you can agree that china poses a challenge to u.s. interests and u.s. national security. then ask, okay, what is the best way to cope with this? what's weird about this is the trump administration's response to this seems to be, we will take our football and go home. we won't engage with china at the united nations. we will not fund the world

health organization. we will not engage in other international organizations where china is exercising or throwing more weight. the way -- the inevitable outcome of that is that china exercises even greater influence on the national stage. the united states looks more and more isolationist. so even if you diagnose the problem, which is, we need to figure out how to deal with the rise in china, again, it's like the trump administration has decided you have the common cold and, therefore, we need to amputate your arm. the cure is far wars than the disease in this case, in terms of the trump administration's strategy. it'll be interesting to see, as the campaign goes forward, what the biden campaign says about the appropriate way to deal with china, in which you do have to cooperate with them in areas like the pandemic. nonetheless, also want to deal with things like the diversification of the supply chain. >> dan drezner, thank you very much. we want to turn no "morning joe" chief medical correspondent dr. dave campbell.

dr. dave, a lot of different questions are emerging as we sort of navigate through this crisis, this pandemic, this specific virus. there's this one area of multi-system inflammatory states affecting children that is linked to the coronavirus. the president seemed a bit confused about it, but we did get clarity from his team. this is leading to deaths in some children. can you tell us about it? >> this is an unfortunate, new condition that we're noticing. it's been seen over in europe and china for the last few months. it affects young kids. it is an inflammatory disease of the blood vessels. rather than what we're used to, which is the respiratory component of this. normally, when a kid has covid-19, they have a cough, a fever, they have a sore, red throat. with this new syndrome, which is the pediatric, multi-system

inflammatory syndrome associated with covid-19 -- clearly, the name is too long, and they're working on that -- but it, unfortunately, has been associated with some kids dying, although that is rare. it is also an acute, quick illness, but it is much different than the normal type of symptom manifestation for covid-19. it's very concerning. it has even gotten the mayor of new york city to recommend that children in certain day care situations start wearing a mask, mika. >> it is a rash, a fever, red eyes, red lips, a swollen tongue. it's very specific symptoms? >> yeah. it's affecting the blood vessels. it is a vasculitis. mucous membranes. anything that would be responsive to inflammation of blood vessels is being affected by this. in distinction to the lung

effect that you normally would see in the kid with covid-19. they get a fever, a cough, and they get a sore throat. >> also, there's confusion about antibodies. i know there was a study out of new york city that shows that most people who had coronavirus produced the antibodies. is that true? what does it mean? >> it moan means a lot. this is the first time, believe it or not, that we see that, essentially, everybody, or the majority of people, who have covid-19, who have been infected with the virus, actually make antibodies. that's good, good news. it doesn't mean we know whether everybody is conferred immunity, or for how long. concerning, in that same study, is that the virus is actually present in the back of the nose and the back of the throat for weeks after you get rid of the symptoms of the disease. that study was great and bad at

the same time. these are building blocks of information that we're all learning as we move forward, in how to stay safe, how to get back to work, and how to manage this condition, mika. >> dr. dave campbell, thank you very, very much. still ahead on "morning joe," nearly 2,000 former doj employees are calling on attorney general william barr to resign. following his decision to drop the charges against michael flynn. we'll talk to nbc news law analyst ben wittes about what he calls an ugly day for the justice department. jour wat you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. i've been taking prevagen on a regular basis for at least eight years. for me, the greatest benefit over the years has been that prevagen seems to help me recall things and also think more clearly. and i enthusiastically recommend prevagen.

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welcome back to "morning joe." more devastating news out of a veterans home in new jersey. the new jersey department of military and veterans affairs, public affairs office, confirmed yesterday 72 people have now died as a result of the

coronavirus at the memorial veterans home in progrnew jerse. there are seven test results still pending. ten residents currently are hospitalized. mitchell haber, whose 91-year-old father, arnold, an army veteran, died last month at the home, told the "new york times" yesterday, "the whole place is sick now. what they should really do is raise it and put a park there. it's like a mass shooting." the new jersey veterans home is a state-run home for former members of the united states military. the surge in cases has prompted a federal investigation by the state's attorney general, who has warned criminal charges could result. so, joe, this is just a snapshot. this is one gutting example of what's happening in long-term care facilities across the country. not just veterans homes but homes for the elderly, as well. this disease spreads through

rapid adly and wipes out men an women, here, who served in korea, men and women who served in vietnam, who have given their lives to us. now, we're breaking the compact. we're not taking care of them. this is a deal we made when they signed up, that we'd take care of them, and we're not doing it as the disease absolutely guts these vets homes. >> and this is the latest example. also, we've seen terrible examples in massachusetts. we've seen terrible examples across the country. in a lot of the vets' homes,bar. there's not separate rooms. it devastates the vets who have given their all to this country. be it in world war ii or, like you said, korea, or vietnam. we just, once again, the white

house, not keeping their word to the men and women who gave their lives to this country. >> let's remember -- >> sorry, mika. in kirkland, washington, this started at a nursing home. we knew this was going to be a problem, and it continues to get worse. in the state of new jersey alone, where this paramus veterans home is, in the state, the overall deaths, more than half of them, the total deaths in the state of new jersey, have taken place in long-term care facilities. the government, state and federal, have to do better. >> this as he is tweeting away this morning about what he's been calling obamagate. yesterday, the president was asked what he means by his claims about former president obama. take a listen. >> what crime exactly are you accusing president obama of committing, and do you believe the justice department should prosecute him? >> obamagate. it's been going on for a long time. it's been going on from before i even got i elected.

it's a disgrace that it happened. if you look at what's gone on, and if you look at now, all the information being released, and from what i understand, that's only the beginning. some terrible things happened. it should never be allowed to happen in our country again. you'll be seeing what's going on over the next -- over the coming weeks. i wish you'd write honestly about it. unfortunately, you choose not to do so. john, please? >> what is the crime, exactly, what you're accusing him of? >> you know what the crime is. the crime is obvious to everybody. >> so much to unpack there. >> it's not. >> whoa. >> not obvious to everybody. >> joining us, msnbc law analyst and editor in chief of "law fair," benjamin wittes. aside from the fact he was runoff the stage by two women reporters, one in which he was extremely race iist toward, ande other he just ran off. not to get distracted by that, but to get back to this, there is so much to unpack in the one

sound bite. "you'll see what it is. it is coming out in the next few weeks. you know what it is." i don't. can you tell us? >> i can't, actually. you know, obamagate is a phrase that seems to have no meaning, exceptecessor with some nebulous scandal. the information that has been released that he refers to relates to general flynn, of course. it does not, in any sense, establish that there was any great misconduct on the part of the justice department or the fbi. much less, president obama, who was not in office anymore by the time general flynn was interviewed by the fbi. so i think this is, you know, really an effort to distract and mobilize his base and to kind of keep this sense of conspiracy

that animates so much of his response to criticisms and allegations against him, going and fevered up. beyond that, i have no sense of what he's talking about. >> well, i mean, and he is spewing conspiracy theories left and right. conspiracy theories about barack obama. this morning, more conspiracy theories about me. not understanding, it doesn't hurt my family or me. it hurts other people. just like his conspiracy theories or other people's conspiracy theories about seth rich. it hurt seth hitrich's family. the conspiracy theories fly left and right. let's get the facts. you know, this past week, some of barr's defenders, the anti anti-trump squad went out there with their fainting

couches. were talking about how barr was attacked unfairly for what he did. yet, you said that barr's actions were exceptional i rare. why? >> i'm unaware of another case, and no one cited me one, in which the justice department, without acknowledging that there's either newly discovered evidence of innocence, or discovering that there was some depravation of legal or constitutional right or behalf of the defendant, moves to dismiss a plea. it's not like it's a case that hasn't gone to trial yet. this is a case where the man has been convicted by his own plea that was entered voluntarily. i just don't know of the justice

department doing that. now, it's pretty -- it's not common, but it does happen, that sometimes you get a plea deal, and then there's evidence that emerges that the person was innocent. well, that's not what happened here. sometimes, you find out that there is egregious government conduct that, you know, you don't want the government to obtain a conviction by that means. it violates somebody's constitutional rights. that, i understand. but that's not what happened here. the government does not allege in bill barr's new brief that the government abridged general flynn's conscientitutional righ. the idea that the government would basically throw its own case in a situation like this is, to my knowledge, unprecedented. you know, i have asked a bunch of people whether they can cite me a case in which the government behaves this way, and people can't. that's what i was referring to

when we said it was exceptionally rare. >> of course, general flynn admitted to it. he pled guilty to it. donald trump said he lied to the vice president and the fbi. donald trump said he had to fire general flynn. you had mike -- >> and -- >> hold on. you had mike pence saying that general flynn lied to him and had to be fired. so the question, peben, is this why in the world would judge sullivan let the prosecution basically throw this case out for clearly political reasons? could the judge still make this case move forward? >> so it is very difficult under precedent in the d.c. circuit, where this court is -- where judge sullivan sits, to not accept the government's move to

dismiss. i think at the end of the day, judge sullivan may well be bound by precedent to grant the government's motion. that said, he can ask questions. you know, the government has a motion before him to dismiss. that requires leave of the court, in the language of the rule. before he grants his leave, he can hold their feet to the fire about this. he can ask about, as you point out, the role of politics. he can ask about why not a single career justice department official was willing to sign this extraordinary brief that they filed. he can ask about whether the justice department has ever taken a position like this in the history of the republic. he can ask about whether the justice department is willing to be bound by this precedent in the future and behave this way

in future cases. so judge sullivan can make things very uncomfortable for them. i don't know if, at the end of the day, he can force them to continue litigating a case that they don't want to litigate. but he can certainly raise questions in the meantime. >> john heilemann is with us and has a question. john? >> hey, ben. i was really struck yesterday by this letter. 2,000 former doj employees, prosecutors, mostly career officials, former officials, who wrote this letter and said that bill barr should resign. you were just talking about a number of things that have no precedent in the justice department in terms of how this case has been handled. have you ever seen anything like this, with that kind of

bipartisan, large scale outcry from the career officials who make up basically the alumni of the justice department, coming out and taking a stand that strikes me as totally extraordinary? i'm curious as to whether there's precedent for that and i'm ignorant of it. >> the only precedent of it that i'm aware of is that a -- the same group of former doj officials released an earlier letter about bill barr's conduct. you know, if you take those two statements together as kind of one, the former alums of the department, of both parties, some at extremely senior levels, you know, denouncing the attorney general's behavior, i am unaware of a precedent for that either.

>> all right. willie geist? >> so, ben, i want to ask you about the judgment by justice barr -- excuse me -- attorney general barr, that the lies told by michael flynn, again, the lies that he pleaded to lying to the fbi investigators, were not material. this was withdrawn, the prosecution was withdrawing because it was not material. how did they arrive at that conclusion? what does that mean in this case? >> this is the core dishonesty of the brief. the basic theory of it runs like this. let me sketch out the theory and then, like, with an example, show you why it is so ridiculous. the theory goes, there was no legitimate basis on which to be investigating general flynn. the fbi had considered, and even moved towards, closing the

counterintelligence case against him when they suddenly renewed it because of this information about his conversations with the russian ambassador coming to their attention. so there was no proper basis for them to be investigating him, therefore, there was no proper basis to interview him. if there's no basis to interview him, then the answers that he gave in the interviews, even if they're lies, cannot be material, which is a requirement of the statute. so, therefore, he couldn't have committed a crime. now, if that's right, imagine that instead of flynn being interviewed, you had made a malicious complaint against him to the fbi. and the fbi, you had said, you

know, "general palestinian flyn russian agent. by the way, he is a child molester," and you made up false things about him. the fbi had come to interview you about your allegations. now, there's no open investigation at that point. they're just interviewing you about your allegations. you've now lied and committed and submitted a false report against somebody, a maliciously false report. according to this theory, you couldn't be charged for that. there was no open, validly predicated information when you submitted that false report. that cannot be right. >> benjamin willis, thank ytteso much. as president trump calls americans to start returning to work, the white house is looking to other countries for ideas. white house economic adviser, kevin hassett, and secretary of

state mike pompeo have cited south korea and austria as models to look toward. nbc news senior international correspondent keir simmons spoke to the leader of austria. keir joins us now. what did you learn, keir? >> reporter: mika, austria's population is around the same size as new york city. get this, austria has had just over 600 deaths from the coronavirus. it's not that, of course, the austrian alps are different, very much, from manhattan. they have had real challenges. they had a ski resort where the coronavirus earlier on was being passed around, infecting people, and then sent those infected people heading off around the world. they locked down very, very heavily, including having medical teams able to come in and test people straightaway. they made people wear face masks. now, as they unlock, as i spoke to the leader of austria, what i

was really struck by is how, in a sense, respectful of the virus they are being. unlocking a little bit, waiting two weeks on the virus' timeline, unlocking a bit more, and once again, mika and joe, you won't be surprised to hear, central to the whole thing, testing. >> the white house is watching austria to see how you're opening up. austria is about the same size as new york in population. what's the key thing that you have done that america could learn from? >> well, i don't think that somebody has to learn from us. what we tried is to react very tough and earlier than others. i think this lockdown worked. the numbers decreased in our country. beside that, we have three quite important things.

first is that people respect our social distancing rules. second point is that people have to wear masks in shops, for example, or a public transportation system. and, of course, we avoid big gatherings. >> you're hoping to reopen tourism. that is going to be a challenge, isn't it? >> well, it is a challenge, but we are well prepared. we will do a lot of testing. we start to open the hotels in austria at the end of may. >> is there a possibility that a number of countries around the world, who have low infection rates, might agree, travel between those countries, but the other countries might not be able to travel to those countries? >> well, i hope that we will be able to open our borders to all countries when the situation is under control. >> reporter: where the situation is under control, guys.

i think that prompts a conversation that maybe we haven't been having so far but that we need to. that is about how you get world travel reopened, which is crucial to the world economy, of course. what countries will agree to have people from other countries come to their countries, and where will they keep up the borders because they're worried about what's happening domestically? that is a big question for america, of course. because if america doesn't handle this in a way that controls infections, what will the rest of the world's approach be to opening up to america? it is incredibly difficult. america being the most powerful economy in the world. it gives you a picture of the diplomatic, political tensions that this coronavirus is going to foster and that we are yet to see, but which are coming down the tracks. >> nbc's keir simmons, thank you very much. up next, president trump said last week that he's learned a lot from richard nixon. we'll talk to presidential

historian next. uh uh, no way come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card.

i learned a lot from richard nixon. don't fire people. i learned a lot. i studied history. and the firing of everybody, i should have in one way but i'm glad i didn't. look at the way it turned out. they're all a bunch of crooks and they got caught. but i learned a lot by watching richard nixon. there's one difference, number one he may have been guilty and number two he had tapes all over the place. i wasn't guilty. there were no tapes. i wish there were tapes in my case. >> oh, there are tapes. it's video actually have it on the internet. >> that's the thing. it's fascinating.

>> there are tapes anymore per se. >> he says outloud what richard nixon said in the privacy of the oval office. so we don't need a white house taping system to know. >> exactly. but you know what, americans have learned a lot from richard nixon as well. and it helps us today. joining us now nbc news presidential historian michael beschloss. he's the author of several books including his latest "presidents of war". >> so michael, so much to talk about. i want to talk about this president using the weekend attacking brian stelter at cnn, of course, attacks on me, attacking bill marr's sew. attacking bill marr's ratings. tweeting out one conspiracy theory after another about barack obama. this is -- are we not in the worst crisis since world war ii? and would this not be like fdr

going after a rural newspaper columnist the day after pearl harbor? it just seems oddly unpresidential. >> you're right. you know, i think both our generation, americans after both us and also future historians will have to look at donald trump. he said yesterday that nine words, we have met the moment and we have prevailed. i think historians are going to look at that very hard decades from now and actually that comes from richard nixon in august of 1968 when he was nominated for president. he said, in terms of his own situation, this is a time when the man and the moment have come together. so, nixon/trump, it's very much on his mind. but what historians are going to ask and also american voters this fall, did donald trump do everything he could to anticipate and keep from happening this worst crisis

perhaps since world war ii? i think you're absolutely right. number two, is this someone who did -- fulfilled the most basic responsibility of a president, which is to keep americans safe, to defend their lives, to make sure that they survive. right now as of this moment if we got more than 80,000 dead, that's almost one fifth of the american military dead in world war ii. that's how large a number that is. and the other thing, i'm sure it will be asked this fall and also in the future, what reagan said in 1980 in the debate with jimmy carter, franklin roosevelt said the same thing in a fireside chat in 1934. they said, are you better off than you were before? and reagan's case he said are you better off than you were four years ago? people will ask that of donald trump this fall and they're going to have to assess his leadership. >> and of course that leadership is not just what he did after being surprised. it was -- it's just a rolling number of mistakes that continue

even through today. kasie hunt is with us. she has a question. kasie? >> michael, it's great to see you. just -- >> hi, kasie, same. >> just to continue the nixon analogy and thinking. one thing that drove nixon's ultimate resignation and his decision making about how to conclude this was that his own party in congress turned on him and essentially went to him and said -- >> right. >> -- we can't defend you anymore. there are some suggestions that the white house is concerned about the senate republicans in particular breaking away. how do you think history is going to judge the senate republicans that have so far stuck with this president to the end? >> i think history will say that senate republicans who have turned the other way when people asked them to speak out against things that donald trump that were particularly wrong and perhaps particularly in the last

couple months, they will say they did not fulfill their constitutional responsibility. when the constitution says that congress is supposed to check a president, that doesn't mean the opposition party in congress. lyndon johnson had to deal with the democrat iic majority leade mike mansfield who hated his vietnam war and talk to him all the time, said you should get out of there, you're not doing it right. it was only good for the country for johnson's own party to come out against him both in public and in private. and republican leaders in the senate have not done that. >> hey, michael, it's willie geist. i'm curious if there's any way to track over history whether it's fdr or churchill or come more recently when we had accurate polling, but did any of them consider their own political futures as they managed these crises? because it appears that president trump knows, yes, he has an election in six months. he needs to get re-elected. he wants to get re-elected.

he's looking at polling that shows him cratering, that shows him losing the trust of the american people. >> right. >> i think he believes by painting a rosy picture, not telling hard truths, he can sort of talk his way out of this snch what was the historical precedent for that kind of talk during a crisis in. >> first of all, every great leader makes sure that he or she tells americans what the worst case could be. that's what franklin roosevelt did after pearl harbor, john kennedy did in the cuban missile crisis when he gave his speech. he said this could go on for months. if you don't do that and people begin to mistrust you, you never get the trust back. that happened with lyndon johnson and richard nixon on vietnam. and your other point you took the words right out of my mouth. you look at these presidents in crisis, lincoln in 1862 and 1864, franklin roosevelt in 1942 at the beginning of america's involvement in world 2. kennedy in the missile crisis. johnson at the time of civil

rights. yes, they were aware of the domestic political situation, but they never let that rule what they did. and so often you would see in the white house a case where president says, you know, here to do the right thing may cost me my re-election. it's more important for me to do the right thing and protect american lives and protect the american people than to get re-elected. if historians conclude that donald trump's actions during this period were above all ruled by calculation of what would help him get re-elected in the fall of 2020, that's going to be extremely bad for the way that future americans look at him. >> michael beschloss, thank you very, very much. still ahead, president trump claims anyone who wants a test can get one. he says coronavirus numbers are going down almost everywhere. and he claims the u.s. leads the world in testing. none of that is true. we'll have the fact check. plus, dr. anthony fauci prepares to testify before

congress today. and will reportedly warn about reopening the economy too soon. you're watching "morning joe." we are back in 90 seconds. the united states postal service is here to deliver your mail and packages and the peace of mind of knowing that essentials like prescriptions are on their way. every day, all across america, we deliver for you. and we always will. when i get my teeth cleaned, my hsomething like this. she cleans with something like this. it's got a round head. and it's got power. go pro with oral-b. power one on for oral-b's best clean ever. inspired by dentists. oral-b's round brush head surrounds each tooth to remove more plaque along the gum line. for cleaner teeth and healthier gums. i'll only use the one that's round. oral-b. brush like a pro. that family doesn't have to take out of their house.

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heritage. he's very proud of it. >> maybe that's a question you should ask china. don't ask me. ask china that question, okay. when you ask them that question you may get a very unusual answer. yes, behind you, please. >> sir, why are you saying that to me specifically? >> donald trump in 2016 and yesterday from the white house podium. good morning. and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, may 12th, what a moment that was. along with joe, willie and me, we have pulitzer prize winning columnest and associate editor of the washington post and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson and more on trump's 2020 version of the judge moment just ahead. first, when the president wasn't brushing back reporter questions with extremely racist responses, he was telling more lies about a number of coronavirus issues. he said that the numbers are

coming down very rapidly all throughout the country by the way. >> that's a lie. >> white house data contradicts that? we'll have the new numbers for you in a moment they do not reflect what the president said. he has suggested repeatedly that children are in the clear. yet the cdc's own findings prove otherwise. he said that america leads the world in testing. false. iceland, italy, germany and canada all test more per person. and he echoed his favorite false claim continuing to repeat his infamous march 6th statement that anyone who wants a test can get one. >> anybody right now and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. they're there. they have the tests. and the tests are beautiful. anybody that needs a test gets a test. >> if people want to get tested, they get tested. we have the greatest capacity in

the world. not even close. if people want to get tested, they get tested. but for the most part, they shouldn't want to get tested. >> that's not true. and his claim on the u.s. death rate from the virus was wildly off base. >> i think one of the things we're most proud of is -- this just came in -- deaths per 100,000 people, death. so deaths per 100,000 people germany and the united states are at the lowest rung of that ladder, meaning low is a positive not a negative. germany and the united states are the two best in deaths per 100,000 people. which frankly to me that's perhaps the most important number there is. >> except it's wrong. >> okay. so, i just want to connect on just the last thing the president said here. willie, he said that's perhaps

the most important stat that we have. and i guess i would agree with him. his only problem is he said we're tied for first with germany. close. okay. not that close. if you actually look at the johns hopkins information here, we -- these are the worst mortality rates in the world, willie, out of 140 countries. i'm not good in math, okay? i'm not a harvard boy. i went to alabama. but i think 140 minus 9 still is 131. so, we're not first in the world. out of the 140 countries that johns hopkins university is following, we rank 131 in

mortality rates. and you combine that with what he said about this mysterious childhood illness and says, at least they're all recovering. his own testing director had to say, no mr. president, that's wrong. you get what he said about testing and they had signs, the best in the world. we're not. we're still behind. again, as mika said, we're like fifth in the world on that. making some progress, but still far behind. you look at all these claims. it was another afternoon press conference -- >> just awful. >> another pack of lies from a man who told 18,000 lies. and it's so interesting, willie, that you have all of these anti-anti--trump posers who pull out their fainting couches any time anybody in the media makes a mistake. and yet those fainting couches are not used. >> they don't apply. >> certainly don't worry about the president's 18,000 lies. are these lies during the worst

crisis the united states has faced since world war ii? yesterday an astounding blizzard of lies from the president of the united states. >> yeah. easily demonstrable lies, too. the president yesterday showed he's living in a parallel universe where he is trying to wish away again a global pandemic. you can't do it. we have the numbers. we can show you that we're not first in the world in death rate. we're 131st in death rate. he said on testing, we have met the moment and we have prevailed. if that doesn't say to you, i want to just turn the corner on this and pretend it's not happening, nothing else does. he's wrong on the facts. he was wrong on almost everything he said yesterday, including on testing, including on the death rates and including on the number of cases in this country, which i think is really important because he wants it to appear by the words he expresses that this thing is going away, that we've got it under control. cases, as we said many times, are down in coastal cities in

places like new york city. but we're showing new evidence from his own task force that shows it's popping up across the country just as many people predicted. again, data from his own task force showing that, not us. >> well, willie, that's the astounding thing here is that when we talk about on this show the need for america to reopen but reopen safely, as i say all the time, i'm not talking about nancy pelosi's standards that she put out there. >> not politics. >> i'm not talking about the nation magazines standards. i'm not talking about the young mark is lead for reopening the government. i'm talking about donald trump's own standards that donald trump set out a couple of weeks ago. it's his own standards we're going by. these numbers, for the most part, are usually his own

numbers. and yet time and time again he's wildly off base. time and time again he's wrong. and as you say, time and time again he's wishing this away. it's -- you know, i wrote a column in the washington post a couple weeks ago talking about the year of magical thinking. borrowed that from joan didian memoir. he continues this year of magical thinking even saying that this isn't going to come back in the fall when, in fact, just about every person of science, just about every doctor that knows what they're talking about, health care experts say this fall will likely be the worst wave and in some models the fall will actually be worse than what we just endured. >> yeah. there's optimism, which you want from a leader, which you want from a president. and then there's lying about the data to try to project something that's not there. and that's what the president was doing up there yesterday because the nation's top

infectious disease expert intends to warn the senate that americans would experience needless suffering and death if the country opens up too quickly. dr. anthony fauci expected to make his first appearance before congress since president trump declared a national emergency in march when he testifies remotely at a high profile hearing before the senate health education labor and pensions committee today. according to "the new york times," dr. fauci intends to warn the senate against the extreme dangers if the u.s. opens up too quickly. in an email to a new york times reporter, fauci previewed his message to senators. it reads this way, quote, if we skip over the check points and the guidelines to open america again, then we risk the danger of multiple outbreaks throughout the country. this will not only result in needless suffering and death, but would actually set us back on our quest to return to normal. again, that is dr. anthony fauci of the president's white house task force in this pandemic. let's bring in former white

house adviser for health policy, professor and vice provost for global initiatives a the university of pennsylvania dr. ezekiel emmanuel senior medical contributor. dr. emmanuel, good to see you. we can get into what dr. fauci will say today. but first what you heard from the president yesterday on testing, on the number of cases and on the death rate. what do you make of his view of this pandemic? >> well, you know, it's -- i think as you guys accurately said, it's not clear where he's getting his data. just on the testing, i think there are 25 countries that have tested on the per capita basis more than we have. you listed some of them, germany, iceland, israel. there are just -- he's not actually engaging with the data. he's not even attempting to engage with the data. if you get one piece of data wrong, we understand. but when you -- it's a whole series of things you're just trying to imagine something

different than reality. and the fact about science is you can't deny it. it comes back and will bite you because it's reality. coming up, senator mazie hirono of hawaii join us. first, the information publicly pushed by the administration looks different from the info kept under wraps. to that point, this unreleased white house report that shows coronavirus rates spiking in the heartland. "morning joe" is back in a moment. some companies still have hr stuck between employees and their data. entering data. changing data. more and more sensitive, personal data. and it doesn't just drag hr down. it drags the entire business down -- with inefficiency, errors and waste. it's ridiculous. so ridiculous. with paycom, employees enter and manage their own data in a single, easy to use software. visit paycom.com, and schedule your demo today.

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you can count on us. new data shows new coronavirus rates are spiking to new highs in several metropolitan areas and smaller communities across the country, according to undisclosed data from the white house pandemic task force that it's using to track rates of infection and which nbc news now has obtained. the numbers contradict president trump who claimed yesterday

infection rates are coming down rapidly nationwide. according to last week's report, the heartland reported surges of nearly 75% over a seven day period compared to the previous week. cities on that list include gnash will, des moines, iowa, amarillo, texas and on top of the list with 650% increase, central city, kentucky. joining us now from the white house, senior white house reporter for nbc news digital, shannon petty. you watched that briefing yesterday outside the building bind you very closely. i know the president again wishing this away with statistics that are not based in reality, and, in fact, as we just showed there, contradict the data from his own white house task force. not outside data. not some model that he can push to the side. but the white house data that shows cases are spiking across the country, not going away as he said yesterday. >> reporter: well, i asked the president in that briefing yesterday, what are you going to do to start getting cases down

to get deaths down. again he said they are going down. we had one of our best weekends yet. of course often times you see numbers go down over the weekend only to come back up during the week when reporting picks up. another big development at the white house yesterday that conflicts this message that the president is trying to give of a country that's ready to reopen of a crisis that is moving behind us is the fact that the white house is now requiring all staffers to wear masks when they enter the west wing. we were told that a memo was sent out to employees yesterday afternoon telling them first to stay home if they don't have to come into the white house to conduct business. if they do come in, they are now required to wear a mask when they can't socially distance. we will see if the president, who is not a staffer, is going to follow that recommendation. that's still to be seen. we haven't seen any public meetings or any travel yet. hopefully we'll get a sense of that later on this week. but many americans have already been wearing masks, but this will be a big change in the west wing because despite how cramped

the quarters are there, narrow hallways and small working spaces very few staffers have been wearing masks so far that definitely changed yesterday in the rose garden. i saw every staffer i saw including jared kushner and the head of hhs were all wearing masks yesterday. >> so shannon, what is the level of concern? there's been reporting that some people at the white house are scared to go into work because vice president pence's spokesperson contracting the virus, military valet for president trump contracting the virus. what is the level of concern? obviously the president believes he's projecting strength by not wearing a mask, but what about everyone else? >> reporter: well, kevin hasset, his own economic adviser said he was scared to come into the office. he said that over the weekend. one staffer i talked to yesterday said things are really quiet around the white house and wasn't people running around with their hair on fire like it sometimes at the white house, just very quiet and somber and

that, yes the irony was felt that they were now in the white house grappling with this issue as they were trying to tell the country that this is something we can move past and something behind us. but, you know a lot of people are going to continue to come into work here, i am told, because access is power here. and you know, one staffer told me a long time ago, if you can't hear the president yell, you're not in the inner circle. in order for people to run interference their issue and agenda stay on the front burner, they'll continue to come into the white house even if they are concerned or even if they have questions about the safety and the level of cleanliness that's going on. but the administration has stepped up cleaning i will say that as well. >> all right, shannon pettypiece outside the white house for us. thank you so much. dr. emmanuel, so we will hear today from dr. fauci over teleconference at this senate hearing that he's concerned about america's skipping over the white house's own guidelines and moving too quickly and leading to an outbreak across the country that we then may

have to go back and shut things down again. so as you watch this play out, you mentioned some 30 states are going to be opening in some form slowly most of them. what is a safe way? what number should we be looking at where we can say, yes, it is safe to open up? what would dr. fauci say about that? >> well, the white house guidelines have three dating criteria. the main gating criteria that everyone has looked at is the number of new cases that you're having going down over a two-week period or the percentage of people tested declining. we've been having very high percentage, which indicates that we're only testing the most severely ill people. and you want to see that decline. you also want to see hospital capacity so that you can deal with a surge if you get into the exponential increase, so you want to see the number of people in the hospital with covid going down. again, over a two-week period. and what we are seeing is that

most states that are opening actually don't have -- meet these criteria. and there's only a very handful of states i think you mentioned we're seeing a decline in new york. but there are other places that you just listed that are actually having rapid increases in states that are planning to reopen or actually in the case of iowa never really shut down. so these are all indications that people actually aren't adhering to the president's own guidelines. and you are getting a contradictory message. the president on the one hand issuing this plan to reopen america with strict dating criteria and himself encouraging opening. i talked to a number of economists, i might add, about reopening because they, too, want to open the economy up and get it going. no one wants a terrible recession or depression, and to a person, they say that the main intervention to opening up the economy, public health measures because that's the only thing that will give the american

consumer confidence that they can go out, shop and not get sick. and if you don't -- if you feel like you might get sick and might die by going out and shopping, you're not going to do it. and we've seen that in the data before most places issued shelter in place orders, americans were cutting back. so i think there's a lot of contradictory talk coming out of the white house, and it's hard for people to sort it through. >> dr. ezekiel emmanuel, thank you very much for being on this morning. coming up, the white house has a funny way of adding things up. our next guest is looking at how the administration calculates its figures when it comes to the pandemic. "morning joe" is back in a moment. i just love hitting the open road and telling people

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an update now on new york where nearly two months since the state went into lockdown mode parts are beginning to reopen in carefully-planned phases. governor andrew cuomo announced yesterday that three regions of the empire state have met strict guidelines, including increased testing and steady declines in virus cases to begin reopening this weekend. limited construction, manufacturing and curb side retail will be allowed to resume in the finger lakes, southern tier and mohawk valley areas. certain low-risk businesses and activities including landscaping and gardening work, outdoor

sports like tennis and drive-in movie theaters can reopen friday as new york's shelter in place order expires. while parts of the state look to open up, new york city has only met four of the seven criteria to begin that process. willie? meanwhile, major league baseball owners gave the go ahead yesterday for a proposal to the player's union that would start the baseball season around the weekend of july 4th with every team playing an 82-game schedule. following a second spring training that would start in mid-june the plan includes playing regular season games without fans in home stadiums that have local and state government approval as well as schedules where teams play only in-division opponents and interleague opponents from a similar area to limit travel. the proposal would expand the designated hitter to the national league, expand rosters to around 30 players and double the number of wild card teams to create a 14-team playoff at the

end of the season. money likely will be at the heart of the return as lack of revenue from the absence of fans would, of course, change the economic landscape for owners who want players to have to share in the financial burden. "the new york times" reports the league has proposed paying players based on how much money is earned during the shortened season with teams splitting revenues 50/50 with athletes. many players believe they already gave up enough when they agreed in march to not take their salaries unless games were played. league officials are expected to present the proposal to the union today. a little bit of hope but obviously the union will have quite a bit to say about that idea. let's turn now and joining us the president of the council on foreign relations richard haase, the author of the new book officially out today entitled "the world, a brief introduction" richard. congratulations on book publication day this is richard haass week on "morning joe." i assume umt to talk about, first, the new york yankees new

proposed schedule comes out. do we go all the day and win the title, richard? >> i'm sitting here digesting your news, willie, and whether an 82-game season is good for the yankees or not. and, i'm kind of stuck. but let me put it this way, if they win, no asterisk. if they lose, big asterisk. >> spoken like a true yankee fan. i love it, richard. let's talk about your book as i said out today. this morning we want to focus appropriately on china, the president yesterday telling reporter ask china when talking about testing rates across the world and who is doing better where. what have we learned, richard, or what was, i guess, affirmed and what were we reminded of about china since this outbreak began on new year's eve in wuhan and the way it has handled this crisis. how has it affected our relationship with china going forward? >> what we have learned about china is what we should have

known all along. this is a closed authoritarian system where the phrase shoot the messenger can be taken literally to criticize or point out problems is to invite retributi retribution. china has not acted responsibly here, however, this outbreak began, they covered it up. they silenced public health experts. they then didn't stop people from leaving wuhan. so the spread essentially got under way. they have not cooperated fully with the world. now they're blocking investigations into what actually happened. this is a reminder that china is anything but a full-fledged international -- >> and so richard, how does that affect the american relationship with china, president trump started out, of course, praising president xi, saying china had been transparent when of course it hadn't been. he's trying to maintain some relationship but now has turned the corner to pointing the

finger at china for the outbreak that has hit america so hard. >> well, a couple of things, willie. this is the most important bilateral relationship of this era in history as does this relationship, so will go the 2 1st rentry. we can cooperate with china with nuclear proliferation, preventing or coping with future pandemics, dealing with climate change, it will be a much better era of history than if all the opposite is true. so the question is, can we find areas of our relationship where we can cooperate? at the same time, we recognize full well the differences over human rights. we look what's going on in hong kong, we look what's going on with the muslim minority in china. and i think that will be a real challenge to american foreign policy. i want to say a big debate going on, being anti-china is not enough. just imagine we're successful at pushing back against china in

asia and the south china sea and other places, that still won't help us cope with these big global challenges. and ultimately we actually need china's participation if we're going to deal with these global challenges. so i think we've got to adjust our policy. we've also got to work much more closely with our allies. you can't say you're tough on china on one hand and then bash south korea and japan on the other or not doing regional economic political grouping. so the administration is talking tough against china but in many ways they're not walking the walk to match their talk. >> richard, what would be the best way, most productive way, to outwardly communicate and message to china. i say this given the president's ever so simplified ugly answer to the reporter yesterday about china. >> well, that's clearly not the way. and actually one can go back to

your dad. what we need to do is have a high level serious dialogue to instead of the secretary of state picking fights with china publicly, calling it the wuhan virus, why don't we invest the time and sit down with the chinese and see if we can't come up with some areas of at least cooperation, recognizing full well that we're competitive and recognizing in some areas we're going to disagree. but we have to invest in this relationship. 40 years ago, 50 years ago, 40 years ago we invested in it because then we had the shared opposition to the soviet union. that was the common glue. we've lost that now. so the question is, how do we build a relationship where we're not mutually against something but can we find some things that we are for where we're willing to work together? that is the challenge for this administration. i would actually say for future administrations. >> you mentioned my dad, the work he did bridging relations with china, the dinner at our

house. where does the work that he did into that partnership, that gio-strategic relationship, where does that stand now? has it been undone? >> i think it's in more jeopardy now than it's ever been. we're in a phase of u.s./chinese relations where the last few decades once the cold war ended the glue was greater economic interaction. but trade and investment rather than being a source of glue has actually become a major source of friction. so the question is, can we restructure our economic relationship? that's really up to both sides but particularly to china in a way, for example, the chinese don't steal intellectual properties. we may have to become less dependent on china in some areas. then again, can we carve out other areas of the relationship, dealing with the north korea, dealing with climate or strengthening world health arrangements where we actually have some common interests.

so i actually think there's a chance to work this out, put this relationship on a new footing, but quite honestly, the relationship that was deteriorating before the pandemic and now it's worse. what it tells me, mika, like most good things in the world, it doesn't just happen. it's going to take serious diplomacy, serious foreign policy by americans and by chinese. and right now it's not clear to me that either side is up to that challenge. >> the book is "the world:brief introduction" richard ha a ass. thank you. we'll see you again tomorrow. up next, conspiracy theories over 5g vaccines and bill gates merge as the world fights the coronavirus pandemic. why times of crises arrive for the spread of disinformation and what can be done about it. that's ahead on "morning joe."

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we've been saying what seems to be an inordinate amount of conspiracy theories popping up during this pandemic. viral videos created by doctors using dubious and misleading data, claims that bill gates engineered the pandemic, the notion that 5g towers spreads the virus, which actually caused

protests worldwide. our next guest studies misperceptions about politics and health care, professor of government at dartmouth college, brendon nyan joins us now. also with us dr. van gupta a pull mnologyist and also an nbc news medical contributor. professor nyan, i guess the difference here is that a lot of theories and concepts being put out by the president of the united states himself could be deadly. tell us what you're seeing and hearing and what disturbs you the most about it. >> i'm very worried. we always had conspiracy theories but to see them amplified at such a high level at precisely at a time we need everyone to take actions to protect each other, it's very dangerous. we need a consensus message that counters these conspiracy theories not elites amplifying

them. that's especially important now because pandemics and other disasters and tragedies create conditions where people are looking for information. they like an explanation. there's an informational vacuum out there that's hard to know where covid-19 came from. we're still working that out. and it's very scary to think it could happen to any of us. and these conspiracy theories provide a simple reassuring story that people latch on to. i think understandably. and that's why it's especially important for doctors and scientists to provide that information and then for everyone across society to reaffirm what's true and to counter those conspiracy theories which could be so dangerous. >> what seems unprecedented to me here is that the conspiracy theories are coming from the president of the united states, someone who is has a platform bigger than most and all. and how do you counter that? i understand the importance of countering it, but have we seen

anything like this before? >> i don't think there's a contemporary precedent. it's very unusual circumstance for the president of the united states to take actions like this, which so directly endanger public health if they cause people to not adhere by social distancing guidelines or cause people to not take steps to protect others around them, like wearing a mask. and you know, that's contrary to his own political interests. he needs to beat this virus if he's going to get re-elected, right? it's actually counterproductive to his own interests and yet he's still doing it. and i do think that is very dangerous and kind of degradation of our political discourse that i find really worriso worrisome. if he were to take a strong stand in favor of the accurate scientific information in a consistent way, that could be very powerful for the people who do listen to him and do trust him and maybe aren't as trusting of the other sources that are out there that are providing

accurate information. >> dr. gupta, it's willie. it's great to see you today. let me just ask you as someone who not only studies public health and expert on the matter, but more importantly somebody who has been in these emergency rooms treating patients with coronavirus. how frustrating is it to you to hear conspiracy theories that claim the problem is not as bad as it really looks, that doctors are inflating numbers, that bill gates is behind it. i won't repeat a lot of the garbage that's on the internet. but when you hear these things, what's your visceral reaction to it? >> willie, good to see you. thanks for having me. willie, there's an abstract consequence and there's concrete consequences. on the abstract side, to your point, it's demoralizing. it's demoralizing to see that people would think health care professionals tasks to do no harm would misdiagnose the common cold as covid for financial reasons, which is now gaining currency. just fundamentally astonishing

conspiracy theories on the willingness of a health care system to do what's right for their people, that's being questioned. and that's being promoted in some cases at the highest levels of government. that's demoralizing for not just doctors but for nurses, for our respiratory therapists for every cad ray. so that's the abtract. on the concrete side, we've talked about this. if we have dr. fauci and dr. birx trying to countermessages on hydroxychloroquine, you name it, they have less time to talk about what really matters. listen, here in washington state and every state house, we're trying to figure out what's the repeat testing cadence that essential workers need to be going through? we have no idea. the cdc guidelines don't speak it to. we have no idea. this notion that every american get a test, it's not true. cdc guidelines go to the website right now, you have to be symptomatic. so everything you heard yesterday in the press conference we're not -- it's -- there's no reality to it because

the guidelines are not keeping up and that's partly because for giving a platform to conspiracy theories, to things that are not true. we don't have enough time to talk about that are evidence based. >> so dr. gupta, you mentioned the president's comments yesterday and talked a lot as we had you on over the weeks and months the importance of testing. the president said yesterday, quote, we have prevailed on the matter of testing. no matter how you look at it, america is leading the world in testing. that's a quote from the president of the united states. he often, dr. gup ta, sites the absolute number. the raw number. we've tested more people than any one in the world. that's true. but on a per capita basis we fall down the list. how should we be thinking as americans about testing? >> so two quick things there. i'm going to first say on testing, it's not about absolute numbers. it never should be. it should be about, as you said, relative numbers. and in this case, it should be about the number of tests per confirmed case of covid-19.

if that number is low, that means countries like us are looking for covid in very episodic ways. we're only looking for it where we think the test is going to be positive. our rate of testing per confirmed case is zen times lower than the czech republic and estonia. serbia has twice higher rate than we do. it means that we're only looking for it among symptomatic group or high risk groups. go to the cdc website and you'll see why because that's the guidelines. that's number one. number two, i would really encourage all your viewers to go to covid act now.org. that's where you get truth. only montana and vermont based on testing, icu bed availability and a few other metrics are ready to open up every other state in the union is not ready to open up. dr. fauci i'm sure will elaborate on it later today. >> professor, finally, if you agree, is the president

endangering lives with the disinformation that he spreads at these news conferences and elsewhere on twitter? and also, what is the tent pole for truth in the united states of america? what's our best hope at standing up for truth? >> that's a great question. i think the tent pole is actually the american people who very sensibly there's a widespread consensus across partisan lines in favor of taking appropriate social distancing measures and in otherwise protecting our public health actually. it's quite a small number of people, the president is speaking to, when he promotes these more fringe views. you know, what i worry about is going forward that the problem could become worse, not better. if the situation becomes worse, if people start to deny the toll that the pandemic is taking. if it starts to impact our elections. there are a lot of reasons to worry going forward that this problem could become more severe and that's why it's so important for people to come together across partisan lines to protect public health in a responsible manner. the president of the united

states is not anthony fauci and shouldn't be. and that's why it's so important for other voices to be part of this conversation and not to let the president dominate in the way that he often does. >> professor of government at dartmouth college, brendan nyhan, go big green and pull manologyist dr. vin gupta. up next, the testing exchange, an asian american journalist questioned president trump and he lashes out at her. we'll talk with senator mazie hirono about that moment and her proposal on federal action on anti-asian coronavirus racism. keep it right here on "morning joe." (music)

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the u.s. is doing far better than any other country when it comes to testing. >> yes. >> why does that matter? why is this a global competition to you if every day americans are still losing their lives and

we're still seeing more cases every day? >> well, they're losing their lives everywhere in the world and maybe that's a question you should ask china. don't ask me, ask china that question, okay? when you ask them that question, you may get a very unusual answer. yes, behind you, please. >> sir, why are you saying that to me specifically? >> i'm telling you, i'm not saying it specifically to anybody. i'm saying it to anybody that would ask a nasty question like that. please go ahead. >> why does it matter? >> anybody else? please, go ahead in the back, please. >> i have two questions. >> we'll go over here. >> i have two questions, mr. president. >> next, please. >> you called on me. >> i did, and you didn't respond and now i'm calling on the young lady in the back, please. >> can i ask you a question? >> ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much. appreciate it. thank you so much. >> just a complete collapse. joining us now, democratic

senator mazie hirono of hawaii, a member of the armed services and judiciary committees. we'll start right there. what the heck happened? what's your response to that exchange between the president and the two women reporters, one of them obviously an asian-american? >> he sees an asian person who asks a question that he doesn't want to answer and the true xenophobic trump comes out and he calls it a nasty question. he's called me nasty. he's called me various kinds of names. he can't handle women, particularly strong women, and we know that trump is xenophobic and it comes out time and again. >> what is your concern about behavior like this, especially when it comes to the president of the united states, and racism in this country, drumming it up? >> we all know that racism against raise yeasian-americans

the rise. when you have a president who calls it the chinese virus and members of his administration calling it the kung flu and the president has not made it plain that we condemn racist attacks, but he doesn't do that strongly enough, so we have seen a rise in hate crimes against asians. you have total strangers knifing people because they think that they brought the virus into our country. and you have all kinds of actions in this way. and the president knows this. he knows that what he says matters, it provokes these kinds of responses. and people who think that they can act on the kinds of words that the president uses, it's very divisive. i have been called tokyo rose, for example. now, that's racist. but the president does this all the time. he is a divider, he is not a unifier. and in the time of this pandemic he's doing the same thing that

he's done from the very beginning of his presidency. >> and tell us about what you're proposing, especially in light of this pandemic and the sort of surge in racism that you believe you might be seeing. >> in light of the increased numbers of anti-asian racism in our country, kamala harris and i and others have put together a resolution condemning these kinds of racist acts and calling on the administration, all of the administrative agencies, to be much more proactive in combatting racism in investigating racism, and especially for the doj to prosecute hate crimes. and this is why i have written to the department of justice, to the cdc, to the civil rights commission, because we're not asking these agencies to do anything different than what they did, for example, during the sars time when the cdc put together a multi-disciplinary

group, team, to reach out to communities who were being targeted. same thing after 9/11, you had the doj coming forward to say that they're not going to condone attacks against muslims. you had the president of the united states, george bush, stepping up and saying that we are not going to be -- we will not condone attacking muslims. none of those kinds of actions em nature from this administration, and certainly not from this president who is the guy who gives out these kinds of xenophobic cues to his agency, as well as to the entire country. >> senator hirona, great to have you. you've bbeen a member of the veterans affairs committee. we've been reporting at what's happening at the long-term facilities, specifically in new jersey, where 72 veterans, most vietnam and korean war veterans

have died, another in massachusetts. the number is 80 there. you can go all over the country and find devastation. what can we do, what can the government do better to stop something that is already out of control, but to at least slow it down and stop it where it is now? >> it's such a tragedy with regard to the veterans because they've already given so much to this country. but in any facility such as a veterans home or long-term care facilities where we have seen an inordinate number of these deaths, and clearly we need to do a lot more to provide resources so that there can be protective gear. we still don't have enough ppe. we do not have a national testing program. we don't have a national program to make sure that supplies are adequately distributed. it all starts with the president saying this is not my responsibility. and so all the governors in our states, including my own governor, have had to vie with each other for ppes and other

resources. there should be a national program. there should be resources, more resources to these entities, to these facilities, as well as to our health care providers, by the way. they need more support to be prepared and to be ready, because this pandemic is not over. just listen to dr. fauci. in spite of all the lies being spewed by the president so that he can protect his own team, we need to listen to the doctors and professionals that are telling us that the shelter in place -- which again, the president encourages people to come out and fight against those kinds of requirements being imposed by their governors. but we need to liston the medical professionals and we need to understand what we need to do. and that is -- by the way, when we put on masks, that is to protect others mainly from being infected by us. that is a kind of america that i want to live in where we actually care about each other, not just our own selfish selves.

>> all right. senator mazie hirono, thank you. and on the issue of masks, willie, i don't know if you noticed but everyone in the white house and the reporters, they're all wearing masks now. for some reason it took a number of people actually getting the coronavirus in the white house for the president to understand that actually masks need to be worn, but yet he doesn't wear them. >> yeah, he didn't wear one yesterday. and as shannon pettypiece and others noted, secretary service agents, staffers, most other people at the white house now wearing it. because as i pointed out, coronavirus has hopped the white house fence, two infections there. white house on high alert for that. but the president, as we know through reporting, views wearing a mask as a sign of weakness and running counter to the narrative that i wants to get out there, the wishful narrative that this is behind us and we can move on

and open the country. >> yep. the president flauts his own rules and endaners the people working in his white house. good luck to them. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle. it is tuesday, may 12th, and we have a huge day ahead. here are the facts this hour. this morning, dr. anthony fauci will testify via videoconference in front of a senate committee. he'll be joined remotely by the head of the cdc, robert redfield, and the head of the fda, stephen han. dr. fauci told "the new york times" reporter his main message is that opening the country too quickly risks needless suffering and death. in fact, the united states is still facing a staggering number of fatalities every