thanks for watching, we will be back at 6:00 eastern tomorrow. keep it here on msnbc. good evening, from new york, doctor anthony fauci delivered a grim warning. among the country's top officials who testified by video conference before members of the senate. most states have begun reopening and easing restrictions, something on fauci's mind as he warned of going too fast. >> some areas, cities, states or

what have you, jump over the various check points and prematurely open up, without having the capability of being able to respond effectively and efficient, me concern is that we will start to see little spikes that may turn into outbreaks f that occurs, there is a real risk that you will trigger an outbreak you may not be able to control. >> the overall national picture does contain encouraging sign, testing has rizzen significantly. and the percentage of tests coming back positive has fallen. key statistics. there is worrisome signs, according to an internal document, the white house is tracking spikes in the south and midwest. the documents obtained from the coronavirus task force show that top 10 years, surges of 72% or

greater over a seven-day period compared to the previous week. testing rates increased dramatically, too, that can be a factor when the number of cases rise. dr. fauci said it stands in contract in bigger cities like new york. >> if you think we have it completely under control, we don't. the dynamics of the outbreak, we are seeing a demnugz in some places, new york city. which has started to come down. new orleans, in other parts of the country, we are seeing spikes, i think we are going in the right direction, the right direction doesn't mean that we have total control of this outbreak. >> 83,000 americans have lost their lyle, 1.4 million who contracted the virus in this country to date. as terrible as the numbers rfauci said the reality may be

worse. >> 80,000 americans have died, from the pandemic, there are some epidemiologist who suggest 50% higher than that. what do you think? >> there may have been people who died at home who did have covid, who were not counted as covid, they never got to the hospital. in direct answer to your question, i think you are correct. that number is likely higher. i don't know what percent higher, almost certainly, it is higher. >> while the president said he thinks that virus will go away without a vaccine, dr. fauci made clear, we shouldn't count on this. >> when you talk about, will this virus going to just disappear? that is not going to happen. it is high lie transmissible virus, as we get better control, it is likely there will be virus somewhere on this planet that

will eventually get back to us. >> i am joined bye-bye senator smith, who participated in the hearing today. there was a lot of ground covered, health expert, not just anthony fauci, part of the virtual hearing, however you want to describe it in terms of the information that you took in, what did you leave that hearing saying that is the most important thing you heard today? >> sure, i think dr. fauci was honest, direct, i think the american people can take the truth here. hope isn't a strategic. what is a strategic, how do you get your testing done, build up ppe. i thought it was important and powerful that those of us in the senate committee, and the american people could hear the direct facts from the horse's mouth. >> how does that intersect with, in terms of the warnings, hard

truths there for folks, with what is happening on the ground in this country. the clear majority of states have begun reopening, it varies widely state to state. within states, do you think that today's testimony should be the brakes on that reverse some of what happened? how do you think of it in terms of what is happening on the ground in this country? >> i think dr. fauci reminded us, you can't wish it away, you have to follow the facts, science and data. i worry about some states lifting almost all restrikes right away. as he said, the risk of that, the risk of the resurgeance that would maybe move us backwards is great. i think that every state is a bit different. you can look on maps, see where you have up surges, where things are starting to peak, we have to be aware of that here is the big problem they have right now

around us not having a national strategic. this virus doesn't recognize state boundaries, take southern minnesota, we are seeing an upsurge in cases. we are doing a lot more testing because of that we have people who work in southern minnesota, who live in south dakota, people who live in south dakota who work in minnesota. because we don't have a national strategy, we can't accommodate that it makes it difficult to have the data, and know how to get a handle on this. >> you mentioned that. i wanted to ask you fw that, the rising number of cases in your state. southern minnesota. we should say, many of the states doing reopening, met criteria, a downward trajectory, in positive tests, there are only six states as of this week, seeing an increase in positive test rates, your state, minnesota is one of them.

15% of the tests in minnesota came back positive, two weeks earlier, 9%, are you seeing cases in southern minnesota, are you seeing an uptick, your state is one of those, some of these restrictions on nonessential business have been eased. some have gone back to work. based on what you heard today, is minnesota moving too fast here? >> here is the couple of things to remember about this. states like minnesota are seeing a surge and growth a bit later than in new jersey and new york. thank god we don't have the same level in minnesota, than we have seen, we are on a different trajectory. our governor, i think it is the right thing to do. he talks about turning the dial. we are seeing significant upsurges around meat and poultry

processing plants, we have to go in there and get the testing. the surveillance and the tracking that we need. what my governor is doing, i think it is right. what do we do next? is it okay for people to be socially distant and go out golfing? yes, that is probably okay? is it okay to re-open restaurants and hair salons like in georgia? no, that is not okay. >> tina smith, senator from minnesota. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> yesterday, the report, the white house wanted to focus the public's attention on preparedness and confidence. today's hearing may have put that messaging to the test. >> my concern is that states, cities, regions, their attempt,

understandable to get to some sort of nomality. disregard, the check points we put in the guidelines, about when it is safe to proceed, in pulling back on mitigation. >> if we don't do better on testing, on contact and on social distancing, will deaths from coronavirus necessarily increase? >> of course, if you don't do an adequate response, we will have the consequence of more infeces and deaths. >> the white house testing czar suggesting he was misrepresenting the data. >> i understand that politicians are going to frame data in a way that is most advantageous, yesterday, you celebrated we had done more tests per capita in

than south korea, but they accomplished theirs at the beginning, we treaded water during february and march. >> doctor patele, and julia marcus, professor of population medicine at the har vard. >> let me start with you in the difference of tone in what we heard from dr. fauci, today, and what we have been hearing from the president. you wrote, what the hearing presented today from fauci under cuts what the president and the white house is trying to achieve. i think that was notable to everybody watching. how is the white house reacting to this? >> you need to understand, the white house conceived of this, built this week around the idea of trying to put out the message

to the public that it is -- there is a safe way of getting back to work. that we will be ready for it. there will be testing. all the things you need to get back to work. you have seen president trump publicly chiding the blue state governors who have been more cautious. they have gone full throttle into the pivot away from the experts to an economic message. part of the reasons they stopped doing the daily briefings, it was politically damaging to the president, they wanted to present fauci, and the doctors less to the public, and have the public hearing more from business people, more of the positive talk about reopening. fauci comes in today, the first time he speaks to the senate without the president by his side and delivers a stark message of the dangers of

reemerging. i will tell you honestly. there are a number of people at the senior level of the white house who roll their eyes when they hear fauci, view him as an alarmist. that is a fact. i am not presenting it as my opinion, i tell you what i hear, day in, day out, when i talk to people in the white house. dr. patel, bring you in on the specifics of what dr. fauci was saying, when we were talking to senator smith from minnesota, she seemed to be making the case that easing of restrikes in her state of minnesota, seemed to be saying, that were done responsibly, even though minnesota, does not meet this the cases are up in minnesota, she was saying, it could be done

in a limited special responsible basis. nauci's warning today, about the reopenings that states have done, like minnesota, or what they might do next? >> i think dr. fauci was trying to allude to both scenarios, most of the country has issued reopening guidance, even if they haven't implemented it i think what dr. fauci, based on the dat aas you point out, there has to be a responsible mechanism potentially turn back the dial. i think that american public has seen it as an off/on switch. science versus the economy. i think what fauci and smith are struggling with, data tells us one thing, we have to turn the

dial back. in another word, we have to have as much public health infrastructure to deal with the effects of reopening. that is what fauci is pointing out. >> you have a interesting new article. you argue that americans are suffering from quarantine fatigue. risk is not bindery, all or nothing approach to disease prevention, trying to shame people into 100% risk reduction is counter productive. they have to learn how to have a life in a pandemic. each of us will have to figure out our own. >> i am curious, this state is allowing this. this state is allowing that the

big picture argument that you are making here seems to be that in most states, that successfully flattened the curve, by doing that, should be entering a new phase, explain what you would like to see people doing here? >> my argument was less about if states should be opening right now. we need to acknowledge, individuals are making choices every day about risk. they are doing that now, without public health guidance what activities and settings are lower risk and higher risk. the unintended consequence is that as they are experiencing quarantine fatigue, perfectly legitimate, some will say, i will throw it to the wind, go back to business as usual. we know from dr. fauci, that

would be disguastrous. >> dr. patel, let me ask that in regard to one of the items that came up at the hearing today, there were exchanges about schools, whether or not schools should open in the fall. in terms of what we know from a public health standpoint. it seems to me, looking at the data on this, very few for school age children, there seems to be an issue in new york, that maybe an added variable. is it on the question of schools and reopening in the fall, is it about trying to pin down information on kids transmitting it potentially to parents, to adults? >> i will repeat it, we keep coming back to testing,

returning to daycare, or school, the reason we need more wide spread testing is because of that statistic that we see such quote few cases. membership of us in health care believe it is because we haven't been testing children in terms of surveillance enough. i completely agree, with senator paul's thinking, how can we return children to school safely? we cited sweden, they have a more universal health system, and in other countries, more aggressive about surveillance and testing. until the united states has a more national strategic. before returning to school, we can't do that safely. asymptomatic, as they travel into the workplace and homes, in

other countries, we have super spreaders, one person who can infect a large group of people. that is all the more reason, you have have that in a school, in a smaller space. >> you are lrg from folks in the white house, they look at fauci as an alarmist. the president has not been seen with dr. fauci, are those trump/fauci things of the past? >> they are today. high has stopped them. i hesitate to say, they could bring him back for part-time appearances, where they are heading is, you need to pivot of

talking about the question. it is heading away from dr. fauci. >> thank you all for joining us. coming up. more governors are partial ly yu will hear some of the supreme court and president trump's tax returns.

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welcome back, well over half of all states right now, under some partial reopening plan, that includes colorado. now, in the third week of a fades reopening under the governor's safer at home plan. some retail stores opened for pick up and delivery, and elective procedures were allowed

to resume. and strict social distancing in place. businesses were allowed to open at half capacity. governor powellos allowed camp grounds, reopened today, and summer camps, decision on the 25th. castle rock went viral, after he opened for dine-in seating on mother's day. it was packed. with few customers wearing masks in deif iance of a direct order. it was ordered closed. as of today, the state surpassed 1,000 death, the governor of colorado joins us now. thank you, i will ask you now,

about the national news made out of your state with this restaurant that opened on mother's day, all of those scenes, the owner of the restaurant saying he wanted it be an empattic statement. local officials closed it down. pending a review of it here. a business that does that in your state. what do you think the punishment should be for them? what happens in your view? >> first of all, we are not proud of it coloradoans are better than that like every state, we have a big diverse population, including folks who break laws. it is what it is. they are losing their license to operate a restaurant indefinitely because of the public health hazard, at least 30 days, suspended. there is a court ordered closure. we hope others act safely, the more that follow the law, the more restaurants will be able to open in safe perimeters, and precautions taken. >> you say a decision is coming,

you indicated publicly, you like to see restaurants be able to reopen some time this month? in the next few weeks? with the data that you are seeing right now, do you think that is a reasonable target? >> we have some areas, where restaurants are open. messa county, the grand juction area, they are have a lower viral count. as long as the numbers hold up, we don't have tomorrow's information today. i want optimistic we will be able to meet the goal of opening restaurants in late may. >> dr. fauci had stark words over states like yours, warning about going too fast, warning of deadly consequences, rising case numbers, if they do, did his warning today affect your

thinking about what you are doing in colorado? >> well i think every state is engaged in an opening, beaches or certain kinds of businesses, allowing camping, colorado is doing, we are trying to do it in a thoughtful way that monitors the data in real time. we have the goal of not overwhelming our health care system. we did a great job doing that keep up social distancing, we will have more normalcy to live in the months ahead. >> again, this was a point of emphasis, he wants states to adhere to the re-opening guidelines out of the white house. is that, i understand that in the current phase, looking at the data, you have a decline in the positive rate in colorado, to enter this phase, you meet the initial guidelines, the subsequence guideline, do you plan to follow those? >> we have a decline in the last

three, four weeks, our positiveivity 5 to 10%, well under the 10%, the bench mark, the virus will be with us steve. we will look at all the thoughtful, world health, cdc, or epidemiologists in colorado. make sure we don't overwhelm overwhelm our hospital, have a way to get through this until there is a vaccine or cure. >> something that has gotten attention, there is an argument out there, some of the states in the reopening process may have the order of operations wrong. what i mean by that, the argument is that when you look at schools, we mentioned this summer camps, places where children congregate, that maybe these should be upped in terms of priority for reopening because of that low rate of serious illness among children that we have seen, in terms of

taking a burden off parents, allowing parents to go back to work, allowing schools and summer camps, that should be considered in the reopening. >> countries like denmark went back to school, before parents went back to work. we would be looking at schools, other than they are nearing the end of the school year. most have one, two weeks. summer camps, we have daycare back in colorado. groups of 10 or less. not every daycare center is open, they can't meet the perimeters, many of them are. we want to make sure kids are ready to go back to school in the fall. it is a valid, not soy much for the kids, there are less risk, it is more about the teachers, parent, and remember, some kids live with their grandparents as well. we are concerned about the older

generations. >> the white house, testing will rise dramatically over the next few weeks, announcing $11 billion, according to the white house, they say they will send your state 200,000 testing swabs, 156 million, from this 11 billion pool. is this a sense, is this what will happen in colorado, if so, what will it mean? >> we have that oral commitment at the staff letter, reiterated from the white house. we need is on the ground to count it. we don't have the delivery dates, at this point, i am cautiously optimistic, we have learned in this complex world, never count it until it is here, we inventoried it and tested it. >> jared po limpt -- s, thank

you. >> thank you. >> when it comes to the pandemic, all the states trying to open. head over to the big board, show you the numbers, it may have gotten under the president's skin.

what are we looking at here, a map of the country with 12 states, the 12 biggest states in the country, these are their

governors, blue for the states with the democrats governor, and red for the states the republicans are governors. and a public, the "washington post" commissioned, looked at theitudes in the 12 biggest states towards their governors and how they handled the coronavirus pandemic. how each state has handled the coronavirus, has varied widely. the initial response from the states, some different than others, what they are allowing in terms of reopening, georgia, has taken aggressive reopening steps, new york, not at the reopening stage yet. that is the other issue. the outbreak can look different in these states, which governors are getting high marks from their constituents, which aren't. that is what they found out. show you. they didn't ask the governor's name, they asked, are you happy

with your state's governor. by state here, what the approval. 71% of people said they are happy with their governor performance. ohio, mine dewine, the highest marks, 86% approval rating on his handling of coronavirus. if you remember, dewine in ohio, one of the earlier governors to react to this. back in early march. putting down restrictions, shutting down schools, he did it earlier than other governors, ohio has begun the reopening, he took early and dramatic action. at the other end of the scale here. you look at the governor with the lowest marks here in the states is brian kemp in georgia.

reopening is dramatic and aggressive. there is broad apprehension about moving too fast, maybe something. it is reflected in numbers like this. one thing to keep in mind they think is interesting, the responses, in these states, what is actually happened on the ground in terms of results, ohio, compared to georgia. take a look at this. first of all, here, there are more cases per 1,000 in georgia than ohio, more causes, there is more testing in georgia than ohio. more tests, the more cases you find. not a huge difference there. the death rate. basically, the same. the picture looks similar in georgia and ohio. what about the trajectory, georgia doing more reopening early than ohio. in the last two weeks, the case count declined. the testing per day, soared in each state.

a comparable rate. 7%, 9%, you want to be 10% or less. about equal there. big difference in how the public treats the governors, reacts to the governors, feels about the steps they have taken, the facts on the ground right now, not that different. up next, supreme court justice the, weigh if president trump will be forced to how do your teeth get a dentist-clean feeling?

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. >> here is part of an exchange between the president's attorneys and justice ruth badder ginsberg. >> before these cases no court upheld the use of congress's

subpeonas. >> tax returns, every president voluntarily turned over his tax returns. so, it gets to be a pitch battle here, president trump is the first one to refuse to do that. >> the president's legal teams say subpoenas are politically motivated. call it an unprecedented attack on the presidency. the records are needed to alleged hush money payments, illegal involvement in campaign, money laundering and ethics rules. a ruling could come late next month. >> david, thank you for being with us. two major things happening

today, the senate hearing, and a hearing on trump's taxes, take us through the arguments today. was your sense in listening to the arguments made, how the justices are responding. which was the stronger hand here? >> a mixed bag. two -- there the case where congress is asking for trump's financial records to help with investigations of trump. the case where the manhattan da is looking to pursue a criminal investigation. it went poorly for congress, well for trump. the justices kept saying, you want the financial records is there a limit to this power? could you ask for his medical records? congress, couldn't articulate. we can investigate anything any time, any where.

the justices seem too rejeblth that trump's attorneys on the case of the district attorney. while, he is president, he is immune to prosecution, but investigation by prosecutor. the justices seemed to think that was too extreme. one good for trump, one pretty poor. >> we, there is ti leaf reading after a supreme court meeting, the prosecutors have the better of it here in terms of the justices, what would it mean? if the justices rule in favor of the manhattan district attorney? >> he would be compelled to release records, accountants, others who are not him, could be compelled to release him. it wouldn't be released to you

and i. it would go to a grand jury, the secrecy of the grand jury. the public may see it later, if it came out as evidence in a criminal trial. it is not releasing it, and the manhattan district attorney puts in in the public's eye. the way congress would. >> the president, seeking to withhold evidence. in 1974, the justices acted unanimously in requiring richard nixon to turn over white house tapes to the special prosecutor. another allowed a sexual harassment lawsuit to go on against clinton. after that president chose them for the supreme court.

>> that leading to bill clinton's impeachment. because it was allowed to go forward. what you were saying, these cases may weigh more, the precedence way weigh more because of what they are asking for. >> you could tell, they were proprietarying in the shadow of those two unanimous decisions, twice in the recent past, the president is not a king, not above the law. he has to complea with requests from others. the justices, struggling, if they are not going to be unanimous, give trump more power. >> listening to the questions today. anthony kennedy was the swing vote on the supreme court, if you could see where kennedy was going, you could see, anthony kennedy is not on the court anymore, is there a swing zoet in any sense how the sides may

be drawn on this? >> if it is not unanimous, the people who i would think, would be john roberts, both seem -- roberts, he leads the questioning on the conference call. it is more his baby, than i think in a normal situation. if he was dmiszive of the house council. it gives you too much power, can you think of another way. on the flip side, questioning trump's lawyer with the broad immunity. what direction roberts is going to go. maybe we are looking at a split decision trump beats back congress, but can't win against the da.

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how grave is the threat to the airline industry? >> well, it is grave, there's no question about it. and apocalyptic does actually accurately describe the moment. as people begin to relive their lives, we expect that they will also get back to traveling. as long as we can demonstrate the safety of our industry and our airplane experience, we believe we will return to a growth rate similar to the past, but it might take us three, five years to get there. >> welcome back. when we talk about the cascading impact of the shutdown of the economy, that was the ceo of boeing calling the situation in his industry apocalyptic. >> reporter: so these comments coming from the ceo of boeing, saying he expects a big airline in the united states could go

you believed as a result of the turmoil caused by covid-19. those comments rolled across wall street today. and i can assure you they landed like a thud in airline offices all over the country. the big question everybody has is, which airline may be more vulnerable? let me set the stage for you. airlines are flying planes that are about 10% full. you see a few occasional pictures of planes more full than that. that's the exception, not the norm. airlines are burning through hundreds of millions of dollars every single day in this country, and under the guidelines, or under the law which gave them the federal bailout money, they are required to keep their employees through september 30th. but every airline has already warned they will very likely have to lay off people come fall. and we could have 100,000 airline employees out of a job come october 1st. the airlines are really on their knees, and some of them are more in trouble than others, specifically the airlines with a lot of debt. and so the concern is, those

airlines may be more vulnerable if passenger traffic doesn't pick up and in a dramatic way. nobody expects that to be honest with you. there is a hope we may have modest pickup over the summer, but nothing that would allow them to retain all of those employees in the fall. especially if we have another surge of the virus and more death across the country. so could an airline go under or more? yes. most analysts believe the boeing ceo was simply speaking the truth. it is possible. which one will it be? we'll have to see. maybe air travel will return, but in the meantime, another headline from the aviation world. the department of transportation says it has been inundated with complaints from people saying that the airlines are giving them vouchers, not refunds when they try to change or cancel their reservations because of covid-19. and the d.o.t. is asking the

airlines, please, try to play along with people, try to be flexible with your customers, because a lot of people are facing real financial hardship. so a lot of moving pieces here in the airline world and among the regulators essentially trying to keep the pieces moving, even though it is a very, very, very slow and quiet place at airports nationwide. steve, back to you. >> yeah, the picture behind tom tells it all. amazing, 10% on these flights in terms of folks who are on them. up next, some big news from the sports world, maybe. stay with us. e big news from the sports world, maybe. stay with us

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well, there was some big news in the world of sports today. major league baseball is in discussions with its players union about starting the season july 4th weekend. the associated press reports the league has proposed an 82-game regular season. that would be almost exactly half the normal length of 162 games. the season would begin with no fans in the seats and limited travel for teams. if this is approved, it would be the shortest season in major league history. meanwhile, overseas, some incredible scenes in paris after france eased some of its lockdown restrictions on monday. for the first time in 55 days, people in paris were able to leave their homes for reasons other than grocery shopping. some businesses have reopened, but restaurants and bars remain closed.

back in new york, broadway theaters announced it would be a long time before shows resume there. owners announcing that the theaters will remain closed through the summer at least and they'll re-evaluate things after labor day. some of the biggest stars took part in the last night's rise up telethon which raised $115 million. as broadway stars joined together to sing "new york, new york." ♪ start spreading the news i'm leaving today ♪ ♪ i want to be a part of it new york, new york ♪ ♪ i'll make a brand new start of

it ♪ >> nice to see and nice to hear. that is the song they play at yankees stadium at the conclusion of every yankees game. so we'll see if they're also playing that in new york at a baseball game this summer. we'll find out. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" is up next. tonight on "all in" -- this is america 2020. videoconference hearings in the united states senate, teleconference hearness the supreme court. trump's taxes, his job performance and kamala harris is here. plus, eric holder will join me as bill barr and president trump work to corrupt the department of justice. and the new biden ad that hits trump with his own words. new polling that says trump is on the wrong side of most americans. "all in" starts right now.