lose his newly adopted home state and those 29 electoral votes because i think that's check mate. >> you know, it is striking right now there's a little getting high on your own supply situation happening with trump on the right. they think there's more clamoring for the kind of thing they're calling for than there is and they're locked in the echo chamber which can happen to politicians. that's where they are right now. david plouffe who is a clear eyed observer, thank you for being with me tonight. >> of course chris, thanks. all right. that is "all in" for this evening. "rachel maddow" starts right now. much appreciated. thanks for joining us this hour. happy to have you here. in the early morning rush hour this morning, this was the view from the steps of the state capitol in florida, looking down over the capitol grounds. as you can see,s that the grim

reaper in the foreground and people dropping body bags on the front steps of the capitol at his feet. the body bags are stamped county coroner. again, this is tallahassee. florida state capitol building this morning. we've seen similar protests like this outside the president's hotel in downtown washington, d.c. but at the florida state capitol today, i think this happened -- i think we've also got shots of the signs that they held as well after they dropped the body bags on the steps. you can see them there. there you go. one of these signs was actually echoed at the trump hotel body bag protest, trump lies, people die. you can see a corpse is not a customer. mourning in america. also one of the signs there, we are better than this. florida has more than 41,000 cases of coronavirus now, over 1,700 people in florida dead.

there's also similar scene today outside the governor's mansion in austin, texas. people dumping body bags outside that building today too in texas, people holding signs showing the climbing case load and the mounting death toll in texas. we also just got in some photos of something similar today that happened in phoenix at the state capitol in arizona. body bags arrayed there too, propped up, you see the grim reaper figure again propped up along with the body bags was this sign that said truth is 80,000 plus dead americans because the coronavirus did not magically disappear. these protests are becoming sort of a hallmark, a visual hallmark of this moment, this epidemic. the epidemic has really only been killing americans in huge numbers for two months. but with over 83,000 dead

americans now in two months and 1.3 million cases, by far the largest epidemic on earth, and with no sign that decisions about opening things up have anything to do with the actual pace and toll of the virus as it continues to rip through this country, i think this imagery, these kinds of protests, are not -- not going away. again, that was tallahassee and austin and phoenix all today. in the past 24 hours, nbc news obtained these documents that were apparently not intended for public release. they were prepared by and for the white house coronavirus task force a few days ago, late last week, while the president said publicly yesterday that, quote, all throughout the country, the numbers are coming down rapidly. it turns out his coronavirus task force knows that is not true. honestly as does anybody looking at the data.

but these documents from the coronavirus task force at the white house single out in very stark terms top ten metropolitan areas in the country in terms of their growth and case numbers over the past week. the top ten areas in the country all with case numbers growing by 72% or more over the previous week include amarillo, texas, rockford, illinois, des moines, iowa, garden city, kansas, wisconsin, gainesville, georgia, nashville, tennessee, st. cloud, minnesota. the top two are st. joseph, missouri, and central city, kentucky where according to the white house coronavirus task force the percentage rise in coronavirus cases in both of those places, the percentage rise in both of those places over the past week is over 600%. over 650%. i mean, meanwhile the president

is saying publicly the numbers are going down everywhere rapidly. all throughout the countries, the numbers are coming down rapidly, the president says. but internally, the white house is grappling with these places having case numbers rising 75%, 100%, 400%, 650% in a week. and this is not like one difficult epidemic in one corner of the country. this is not one state where things are bad. this is all over. on the watch list, according to these documents, internally at the white house coronavirus task force. this is a document that was not supposed to be shown to the public. there's other metro areas that have horrific numbers of their own. charlotte, north carolina, up 250% in case numbers in the past week. kansas city, missouri, over 220% rise in a week. lincoln, nebraska, minneapolis, montgomery, alabama, all with case numbers up over 100% over

the course of 7 days, over the course of one week. and meanwhile, the places it is rampaging through are not getting any better, still getting worse. bloomberg news is out with a disturbing report on what happened ep deem i don't logically after president trump issued his recent executive order telling meat processing plants they had to be open despite the huge number of people working in those plants testing positive for the virus. in the first week after president donald trump issued an executive order directing that meat processing plants be reopened, confirmed covid-19 cases in counties with major beef or pork slaughter houses jumped 40% in their case loads compared with a 19% rise nationally. that means a 19% rise in cases nationally over the course of a week is bad enough. 19% in a week. that's terrible. but in meat packing counties, it

was more than double that in the week after trump ordered all those meat plants reopened. the associated press reported today that when they crunched the numbers nationwide, they came to the stark conclusion that, quote, of the 15 u.s. counties with the highest per capita infection rates between april 28th and may 5th, all of those 15 counties are homes to either meat packing and poultry processing plants or state prisons. and i think some of that persistent fact -- some of these used to be interesting things about how to track where it looked like the epidemic was going. but as this stuff persists and gets worse and digs in and is not made better by federal policy and is made worse by actions of the federal government, i think some of this is starting to resonate in the states, especially as it becomes clear, more and more over time, that if you've got outbreaks in

your prisons or if you've got outbreaks in meat packing plants or even in your nursing homes, those outbreaks are not going to stay inside your facilities. you cannot just write off the populations inside those facilities and assume for one those aren't outbreaks that affect real americans and for two that they're going to stay there. with a highly contagious communicable disease, outbreaks anywhere can quickly become outbreaks everywhere near there. and so we are not fixing the nursing home problem. we are not fixing the meat processing plant problem. we are not fixing the prisons and jails problem. so, all of these places all over the country, red states, blue states, rural states, urban areas, everywhere, all sorts of places all over the country with all sorts of different type of leadership that have these persistent outbreaks that are not being addressed and are getting worse as the national response to the crisis continues to flounder, all over the country people are realizing these outbreaks that we've got,

these are our outbreaks. this is where our case numbers are coming from. this is where our case load is coming from. this is where our viral load is coming from. this is where our people are getting sick and where the virus will spread into the community, into our population, ultimately into our hospitals, into our icu wards and into our morgues. these little ep deem logical outbreaks are now places with huge numbers in cases are growing all over the country, not just in new york, right? not just in the tristate area. all over the country. and so you're starting to see localities and states that may not have wanted to deal with this before starting to figure out they're going to have to deal with this. today, for example, the governor of the great state of mississippi, tate reeves who has been as much a head in the sand about any other governor in the country about opening things up

because he wants to open things up regardless of the epidemic. he announced 7 counties in mississippi won't open up as much as everything else despite his previous plans and his previous announcements because it turns out they really do have raging numbers, particularly in poultry processing plants now in mississippi. and you can't just ignore that and write off those workers and assume the rest of your state will be fine. so, adjustments are being made in mississippi. adjustments also being made today in iowa which has some of the fastest growing outbreaks in the country right now. the iowa governor you will recall is in isolation after spending time with vice president mike pence and his staff. today governor reynolds delayed what had been expected to be a wider opening things up announcement for iowa after "the des moines register" ran a blistering long fact check pointing out her repeated claims

that iowa has flattened the curve don't appear to be true. they at least do not appear to be based on the real metrics of the really quite large and growing epidemic in that state. again, iowa has some of the fastest growing outbreaks in the country. in weld county, colorado where there has been a huge outbreak with hundreds of positive cases that appears to have incubated at a beef plant in colorado, the rural county health director just quit his job. this is the director that told the plant they needed to test their employees before they reopened. jbs said publicly they would do that but then they didn't. the plant just then didn't test anybody and they reopened anyway. and how the weld county, colorado health director has decided to quit his job after 20 years there. today in connecticut, the democratic governor there ned lamont fired the state commissioner blaming her for

connecticut being too slow to address the virus in nursing homes in that state. in connecticut, nearly 60% of the coronavirus deaths in the case happened in nursing homes. connecticut is not alone there. they're one of more than a dozen states where a majority of deaths have been nursing home deaths. but this is the first state that i know of where they fired the state health director for it. the governor says he wants every nursing home resident tested. they're also moving to set up covid only nursing homes in connecticut, presumably to move positive patients so they can more easily separate nursing home residents with the virus from nursing home residents who don't have to try to get a late handle on what has been a very, very deadly epidemic in that part of connecticut. wait too late. hundreds of nursing home deaths in that state already. but as we say basically every day in the failed response to this epidemic in this country, yesterday would have been better than today, but today is better

than never. federally, things are as weird as ever. we're going to talk in just a moment with massachusetts senator elizabeth warren about the truly surreal senate hearing today with dr. tony fauci and the head of the cdc dr. redfield and the head of the fda dr. h hahn. it was interesting to have dr. fauci while the president is not standing behind him breathing down his neck talking about things. the white house confirmed that the president and the vice president will be keeping their distance from one another for a little while. again, both the president and vice president have had a close staffer test positive in the past few days. the president's personal valet and the vice president's press secretary both tested positive within the last few days. now the president and vice president are going to keep apart from one another. does that mean in practical

terms? presumably they'll still only sometimes wear masks even at meetings if you're the vice president and never if you're the president. they'll presumably continue to sometimes social distance at official events except when they don't want to. but at least they will do those things apart from one another for the time being so we don't, i guess, pose the immediate risk of ripping right through the line of succession if they both come down with it at the same time and do equally poorly. the president spent the morning tweeting and retweeting other people dozens of times in an almost frenzied pace, opining, you know, in fairly typical for him fashion on how he wants to prosecute president obama or obama officials or something and opining on the free press being the enemy of the people and how terrible msnbc is and how governors who have better approval ratings from him right now, they stole their approval

ratings from him. it was more than his usual level of petty and out of control i would say, just in terms of average census of how he behaves in public. but today it did take on slightly more weight than usual because while the president literally had only two things on his schedule today -- he had an intelligence brief at noon which is the thing he is often said to skip, and he had a meeting with republican senators at 4:00. other than that, he had nothing else on his schedule today. we know from his public online pronouncements what he did all day was tweet including tweeting about stuff he saw and liked while he was watching cable tv. the president manifestly not busy today. but while he was showing us that, today his lawyers at the same time were at the united states supreme court arguing that the president should be immune from any form of investigation, not just immune from prosecution, but immune from investigation in part because responding to requests

for information in any sort of investigation is such a hassle. the president responding to any effort to get evidence from him would take up his very, very, very valuable time which as we saw today he always spends in very valuable ways. >> why isn't it sufficient just to apply ordinary standards? i gather ordinarily any person who gets a subpoena can come in and say it's unduly burdensome. and what counts as unduly burdensome for a doctor who's in the middle of an operation might be very different from a person who's a salesman and similar for the president, all the factors you raise could come in under the title unduly burdensome. so why not just go back? let the president say i'll show you precisely how this is burdensome. i'm going to spend time, effort

working all these things out, figuring out what they mean, et cetera. and if he shows undue burden and lack of connection, he wins and otherwise not. that's true of every person. that's clinton v jones. why not the same here? >> justice briar, the hypothetical you just gave proves the point. by the time you were to prepare, review, analyze the various requests just in these three cases that we have today shows the burdensome nature. and then to require the president of the united states as you raised in your opinion in clinton versus jones, that burden is being met just by us being here. but to require the president to have to respond to each and every state district attorney that would -- >> no, he would hire you and he would hire a lawyer to list what the burdens are. that wouldn't take a lot of time. and then he wouldn't be burdened because you would go in and say what the burdens are.

and if you're right, you win that case. they're saying the other side, there are no burdens here? >> well -- >> you say there are. send it back and let them figure out what they are. >> i think doing that establishes the problem with analysis of case by case analysis. for instance, in this very case in this subpoena found on page 118a and 119 of the petition appendix, there's a list of documents that are extensive. you would have to meet with the president of the united states. could you imagine, justice briar, if the president were to hire me, i'm going to call the president of the united states today and say i know you're handling a pandemic right now for the united states, but i need to spend a couple or three hours with you going over a subpoena of documents that are wanted by the new york county district attorney. i know you're busy, but can you carve me out two hours. >> can you carve me out two

hours? that would be a very good argument with many presidents. but with this president, you getting two hours with him to organize evidence related to what this subpoena about, money laundering, bank fraud, insurance fraud, campaign finance felonies, you need two hours? this president could probably afford to give you that time to help organize evidence about serious investigations like that given what we know about how he spends his time including what he put on display about how he spends his time today. yeah, he probably could spare two hours with his lawyer to provide evidence. we're going to speak with one of the best court watchers in the country, one of the best legal journalists our country has ever had in just a moment about today's historic supreme court arguments about whether the president is immune from being investigated, whether the president is effectively impervious to the law by virtue

of being president. but hearing them fight it out today was fascinating including the inadvertently funny back and forth between justice stephen breyer and the president's lawyer about whether or not this president has two hours to provide evidence to various areas of investigations. but there's also today -- you should hear this -- some surprising lines of questions from justices you might not expect them from including this from chief justice john roberts. >> counsel, for all that, you don't argue that the grand jury cannot investigate the president, do you? >> we did not seek to have an injunction as was the case involving vice president agnew and in joining the grand jury. we have targeted the utilization of the temporary immunity here to the subpoena. that's correct. >> in other words it's okay for the grand jury to investigate except it can't use the traditional and most effective device that grand juries have typically used which is the

subpoena. >> you can't use a subpoena targeting the president. under his article two responsibilities and the supremacy clause, that, as our view, would be inappropriate and unconstitutional. >> i don't understand if your theory in terms of distraction and all that would seem to go much farther than resisting the subpoena, i don't know why you don't resist the investigation in its entirety or why your theory wouldn't lead to that. >> well, our position is that criminal process against the president. that's what we're talking about. that's before the court. criminal process targeting the president is a violation of the constitution. we did not seek to enforce an injunction or seek an injunction against the grand jury investigating the situation the president. >> you focused on the distraction to the president, but i don't know why in clinton versus jones we were not

persuaded that the distraction in that case meant the discovery could not proceed. and, you know, there are different things that distract different people, but i would have thought the discovery in a case like clinton versus jones, even though civil, would be distracting as you argue the grand jury proceedings are here. >> well, clinton versus jones of course was in federal court. this is in state court. clinton versus jones was a civil case. this is a criminal case. and as this court noted on page 691 of its opin youn, if in fact the clinton versus jones case had originated in a state court proceeding, it would raise different issues than separation of powers concerns over local prejudice and in footnote 13, this court said that any direct control by a state court over the president may implicate concerns that are different than disputes under separation of

powers. >> cuts him off. justice thomas, you go now. lawyer, stop talking. now justice thomas. he goes next. the telephonic format of these supreme court hearings now where the justices all ask their questions in turn, it's awkward. it's brusque. it's a very different thing than i think supreme court advocates are used to. for us the public so few of us get to hear live supreme court arguments, being able to dial in and listen in on them is a bit of a revelation even in a case that's not this historic. but that's chief justice roberts saying to the president's lawyer today, are you saying the president can't even be investigated? you're saying it's okay to investigate him but they can't collect any evidence for their investigation? is that what you're saying? no evidence about potential crimes by a president can even be collected? i sort of expected to hear that line today. i didn't expect to hear it from the chief justice. but it was fascinating on a bunch of different levels,

fascinating day today. more ahead. stay with us.

at fisher investments, we do things differently and other money managers don't understand why. because our way works great for us! but not for your clients. that's why we're a fiduciary, obligated to put clients first. so, what do you provide? cookie cutter portfolios? nope. we tailor portfolios to our client's needs. but you do sell investments that earn you high commissions, right? we don't have those. so, what's in it for you? our fees are structured so we do better when you do better. at fisher investments we're clearly different.

swithout even on yoleaving your house. our fees are structured so we do better when you do better. just keep your phone and switch to xfinity mobile. you can get it by ordering a free sim card online. once you activate, you'll only have to pay for the data you need- saving you up to $400 a year. there are no term contracts, no activation fees, and no credit check on the first two lines. get a $50 prepaid card when you switch. it's the most reliable wireless network. and it could save you hundreds. xfinity mobile.

. good morning. i think what strikes me about this case is this isn't the first conflict between congress and the president as many of my colleagues have pointed out. we've never had to address this issue. and the reason is because congress and the president have reach reached accommodations with each other and sometimes one has gotten more and sometimes the other has gotten more. but there's always been this accommodation-seeking. and what it seems to me you're asking us to do is to put a kind of ten-ton weight on the scales between the president and congress. and essentially to make it impossible for congress to perform oversight and to carry out its functions where the president is concerned. >> justice elena kagan not wasting time this morning.

aren't you asking us to put a ten-ton weight on the scales to make it possible for us to do our job. president trump is trying to block two banks and an accounting firm for handing over information that pertains to him in response to subpoenas from congress and the manhattan district attorney. the investigations that led to those subpoenas include things like money laundering, foreign influence over the president, potential bank and insurance fraud, the question of whether or not the president's business was used as a vehicle to facilitate the campaign finance felonies that put the president's lawyer in federal prison. the president has been litigating these cases for months. he has lost in multiple federal trial courts and two federal courts of appeal so far. but today he was at the supreme court hoping that the supreme court unlike every other court that has heard these arguments thus far will agree with him, block the enforcements of those subpoenas, and hopefully, i'm assuming, they want the court to side with the president in what appears at least to me to be a

truly novel argument that he is not only immune from prosecution, he is immune from being investigated. a supreme court ruling against the president would mean that the financial information he's been fighting so hard to keep secret could be turned over to congress as soon as this summer. but it seems like anything including a black and white yes or no decision and a lot of gray areas in between is possible at this point. boy is this a moment where i would like somebody to explain to me what we can glean from today's hearings, someone who has, say, decades of experience dissecting supreme court oral arguments. thankfully joining me is nina toten berg, npr's correspondent. thanks for making the time. >> and it's a pleasure to be here and to actually be able to have put on a little bit of make up. >> well, for me, you never have to although i appreciate it. >> the radio i definitely don't

have to. >> that is fair enough. this is what attracted me to radio in the first place. let me just ask you as i just set up what i saw today in those hearings and what i think is at stake in these cases, let me just ask you to steer me right and correct me if i laid that out in a way that's naive or wrong. >> i think you basically have it right. the two things that are missing from what you said is that they didn't subpoena the president. neither congress nor the grand jury in manhattan subpoenaed the president. they subpoenaed the accounting firm and deutsche bank and the capital one bank, i think, all of which have information that they think is relevant to their investigations. now, normally this is a pretty straightforward thing. when you subpoena a third party, they just turn it over and they've got it all packaged up and there's no burden to the

president about that because they have it packaged up and ready to go. what's to burden is for him to figure out what are my objections? do i have reasonable objections? what are my lawyers telling me? and what do i do about it? and what he's done about it is to intervene to try to block all of these subpoenas and take the case all the way up to the supreme court which frankly today i thought seemed unpredictably divided i would say. and oddly enough, maybe because these are not people who have generally worked in politics. oddly th oddly enough they were much more comfortable talking about the grand jury subpoena where they clearly thought that you can't just say you're temporarily immune. we've already said you can't be temporarily immune in the clinton versus jones case in 1997 where president clinton was forced to give a deposition in a

sexual harassment civil lawsuit which ultimately led to his impeachment and interestingly enough, justice alito, one of the court's conservatives said to the lawyer for this county of new york, he said, you know, we in the court said there was really not going to be any problem with clinton giving a deposition. and has history bourn that out? after all, parentheses, it will lead to his impeachment. and carrie dunn who was the lawyer said it wasn't the problem he gave the deposition. it was that he lied under oath. that's what led to his impeachment. he got very interestingly around that question, very amusingly in some ways around that question. but i thought the justices were more befuddled in a way about

the congressional subpoenas. >> do you think that it is fair to put these arguments, particularly the way they played out today in court on a continuum with the paula jones case and with u.s. phoenix and these other sort of -- we think of these generational tests of presidential powers and these incredibly dramatic moments where two presidents come to the supreme court complaining that too much is being demanded of them and in both of those cases we get decisions by the court telling the presidents that too much has not been asked from you, you are not above the law, you have legal obligations as well. is it fair to put this case today on the continuum with those other two? >> i think it is because, you know, if the president wins slam dunk in the congressional subpoenas, it'll make it very hard in the future for the

congressional committees to do effective oversight of the president's activities before he was in office, that's what all these involve, matters that occurred before he became president or certainly when he is president. and what i thought the court was looking for was some sort of middle ground that wouldn't just spear the president's heart. at the same time, that it wouldn't spear the heart of congressional oversight and legislative powers. and i'll be very curious to see how they thread that needle, if they try to thread that needle. >> nina totenburg, npr affairs continue correspondent. thank you so much for making time. it was a fascinating day to listen to the live arguments in my sweat pants. but i thank you for dressing up and joining us tonight to talk about it here. >> it was a fascinating day,

you're right, and a little bit the perls of pauline when you're filing on deadline. >> i know that myself. thank you nina. great to see you. >> thank you. we're going to be joined in just a moment live by senator elizabeth warren. stay with us. to severe psoriasis, ...little things... ...can become your big moment. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur. tell your doctor about your medicines, and if you're pregnant or planning to be. otezla. show more of you. while most of the world is being asked to stay inside,

there are people out there giving it their all. so, to everyone who is helping keep us safe against covid-19 day in and day out, all of us at amgen say... thank you. all of us at amgen say... roundup for lawns is here to put unwelcome lawn weeds to rest. so, draw the line. roundup for lawns is formulated to kill lawn weeds to the root without harming your grass. roundup brand. trusted for over 40 years.

when your v-neck looks more like a u-neck... that's when you know, it's half-washed. downy helps prevent stretching by conditioning fibers, so clothes look newer, longer. downy and it's done. ♪ ambient sound fades in and plays throughout. ♪ ♪ ambient sound begins to rise. ♪

♪ ambient crescendos and then goes silent for the tagline. ♪ ♪ ambient swho've got their beczema under control.rs, with less eczema, you can show more skin. so roll up those sleeves. and help heal your skin from within with dupixent. dupixent is the first treatment of its kind that continuously treats moderate-to-severe eczema, or atopic dermatitis, even between flare ups. dupixent is a biologic, and not a cream or steroid. many people taking dupixent saw clear or almost clear skin, and, had significantly less itch. that's a difference you can feel. don't use if you're allergic to dupixent. serious allergic reactions can occur, including anaphylaxis, which is severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems, such as eye pain or vision changes,

or a parasitic infection. if you take asthma medicines, don't change or stop them without talking to your doctor. so help heal your skin from within. and talk to your eczema specialist about dupixent. >> obviously the plan to reopen america was meant to be followed by more detailed nuanced guidance. so my specific question is why didn't this plan get released? and if it is just being reviewed, when is it going to be released? because states are reopening right now, and we need this additional guidance to make those decisions. >> the guidances that you've talked about have gone through that review, they've come back to cdc, and i anticipate they'll go back up into the task force for final review. >> but we're reopening in connecticut in five days, in ten

days. this guidance isn't going to be useful to us in two weeks. is it this week? is it next week? when are we going to get this expertise from the federal government? >> i anticipate this guidance to be posted on the cdc website soon. i can't tell you -- >> soon. >> soon. >> soon isn't terribly helpful. thank you, mr. chairman. >> soon isn't terribly helpful. senator chris murphy of connecticut today grilling robert redfield on why his agency's detailed guidelines for how various entities and businesses and organizations should reopen remains stuck somewhere inside the administration even as states are starting to reopen and they can really use that guidance. the guidelines will be posted soon. some of them have already been leaked to the press. we know they exist. soon. today the senate health committee got its first socially distanced teleconference crack.

dr. redfield and top health experts that have been charged with carrying out the president's rather calamitous response including dr. anthony fauci. >> dr. fauci, you have advised six presidents, you have battled deadly viruses for your career, so i would just like to hear your honest opinion. do we have the coronavirus contained? >> senator, thank you for the question. right now, it depends on what you mean by containment. if you think we have it completely under control, we don't. i think we're going in the right direction, but the right direction does not mean we have by any means total control of this outbreak. >> that exchange between senator elizabeth warren and dr. tony fauci made headlines around the country. fauci says, quote, we don't have virus completely uncontrol, quote, pressed by warren, fauci says coronavirus is not

contained. joining us live is senator elizabeth warren of massachusetts. senator, it's great to see you tonight. thank you so much for making time to be here. >> thank you. it's good to be with you. >> let me first just ask you whether or not you think the senate is able to effectively do its job in the way the sort of partially socially distant, partially remote, partially isolated, partially in person way that we saw you all sort of struggle through this hearing today? >> look, it's not ideal, but we should be doing all of this remotely. it makes absolutely no sense. we had a hearing today in which none of the witnesses appeared because at least some of them are under social isolation because they've been exposed to the virus the from being in places presumably where people were not wearing masks and not distancing. the chairman of the committee was not there because he's in isolation because he has been

exposed. none of the democrats came because it basically is a violation of the cdc guidelines. i'm still looking for the health guideline that says hey, if you could do this remotely or you could all get together in person and breathe on each other, pick the one where you all get together in person and breathe on each other. there's no health guideline that says that. we can do this remotely. most of this was done remotely. why it is that a handful of republicans had to show up and ask questions and not wear masks and show how tough they were. it just makes no sense. and it's just putting politics ahead of good practices. everybody else can manage to do this online. we can too. >> let me ask you about chairman alexander who you mentioned is also socially isolating right now because of his exposure to a staffer who tested positive. i was really struck by it. a bunch of people on my staff are struck by the way he opened

up the hearing today. he kicked off the day's hearing by saying he wanted this hearing to be about being well-prepared for the next pandemic. which is definitely laudable. i mean, the next pandemic is something we should worry about, but it just struck a very discordant note for me and at least for others that i work with in terms of whether or not he thinks we're done with this one. do you think there is a sort of earth one, earth two divide where some of your senate colleagues really think that this is handled, this is dusted, and we should start thinking down the road. >> look, they can say that's what they think, but they have to confront reality every single day. when the chairman said that today, i genuinely thought he meant how we handle the next wave in this pandemic because what i heard from this more than anything else was dr. fauci ringing an alarm bell. i mean loud and clear. saying that if we don't ramp up

testing, if we don't get a national program on contact tracing, and if we don't follow appropriate social distancing guidelines, then the next wave of this thing is going to cause many, many unnecessary deaths. he's making it clear, as he said, it's going to be a really bad fall if we don't get the preparations in place now. >> let me ask you a little bit about that specifically because what dr. fauci is describing about that potentially catastrophic second wave in the fall, while we are still in the middle of the first wave, is that we really do need as a country to get really good and really big and really expert at contact tracing and testing in order to try to head off the second wave. and that is something that takes skill and good governance and good administration. it's just a technocattic thing that we really haven't developed

nationally at all. do you feel that is going to have to happen state by state or even city by city. have you given up on the prospect that we might be able to do that nationally at the kind of scale dr. fauci was talking about today. >> they're saying we need competence and leadership, and that's what's missing at the federal level. and the problem is there are many things the states can do by themselves, and god bless them. they're out there trying to do it every day, to open more emergency hospitals and to do all kinds of work to try to keep their citizens safe. but contact tracing, we move. we move from place to place and state to state. this is something that needs national leadership. same thing is true on testing. we need for the test kits to be produced nationally. we need for all of the support materials that you need, whether it's swabs or tubes, test tubes, or whatever it is to be produced nationally, to be distributed

nationally. the notion of saying to the 50 states and to washington and to puerto rico, hey, you all are on your own, good luck to you, and try outbidding each other for what is necessary, that is -- that is not only wasteful, it costs people lives. it wastes dollars, and it puts us further and further behind in responding to this crisis. that's why i said what i heard from dr. fauci is saying in effect we all know over the past, it's roughly about 16 weeks that we've been at this since the first case appeared here in america. and in that period of time, there's been no real planning, no real organization, just as you say, just good technocattic government, government that functions, government that works. we've now got roughly about 16 weeks to when the next big crash could hit us, when the next big

wave could be upon us. we need to use that time to plan, to get organized, and to be ready for it and to have the measures in place so that we can really do national contact tracing. i've got this right now in the plan that speaker pelosi put out today. i've been pushing for this for a long time. we've got some money in it. you know rachel, what we're suffering from is without federal leadership, it is really hard to get this stuff done. and human beings across this country and our economy are paying a terrible price for the lack of leadership. >> senator warren, if you can stick with us for just a moment, you just mentioned the plan described today by speaker pelosi, that's exactly what i want to ask you about. if you can stick with us, i'll be right back on the other side of the break. stay with us. feel the cool rush of new claritin cool mint chewables. powerful 24-hour, non-drowsy, allergy relief

plus an immediate cooling sensation for your throat. feel the clarity and live claritin clear. woke-up-like-this migraine medicine. the 3:40 mid-shift migraine medicine. introducing ubrelvy™. it's the migraine medicine for anytime, anywhere a migraine attacks without worrying if it's too late or where you happen to be. one dose of ubrelvy™ can quickly stop a migraine in its tracks within two hours. many had pain relief in one hour. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. few people had side effects, most common were nausea and tiredness. ask your provider about ubrelvy™ or access doctors from home with telemedicine. migraines can strike anytime, anywhere. ubrelvy™. the anytime, anywhere migraine medicine. because i trust their quality they were the first to have a vitamin verified by usp... ...an independent organization

that sets strict quality and purity standards nature made, the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand there he is. oh, wow. you're doing, uh, you're doing really great with the twirling. dad, if you want to talk, i have a break at 3:00. okay, okay. i'm going. i'm gone. like -- like i wasn't here. [ horn honks ] keep -- keep doing it, buddy. switch to progressive and you can save hundreds. you know, like the sign says. switch to progressive and you can save hundreds. [anthony] hey mama, what's up? [mama] i'm confused. confused about what, everything ok? yeah, i only see one price on my phone bill. that doesn't sound confusing mama. you're on t-mobile, taxes and fees are included. oh come on, there's always extra fees! not on t-mobile mama. why can't all my bills be like this? i don't know mama. bye mama, love you. anthony? umph! at t-mobile, taxes and fees are included.

and right now, when you switch your family, get 4 lines of unlimited for just $35 a line. a lot of folks ask me why their dishwasher doesn't get everything clean. i tell them, it may be your detergent... that's why more dishwasher brands recommend cascade platinum... ...with the soaking, scrubbing and rinsing built right in. for sparkling-clean dishes, the first time. cascade platinum.

joining us once again is senator elizabeth warren. thank you for sticking with us. i wanted to ask you about the plan that was rolled out today by house democrats announced by speaker pelosi, which would be about a $3 trillion relief effort. it would be the largest relief effort thus far, even though it would not be the first. what do you make about what the house democrats are proposing? >> so look, there's some really important pieces in this. think of it this way. we have to think about health first, and how we protect americans and help restore health. and as we restore health, we need to be thinking about the economic issues and how we make sure there's enough economic security. one of the keys to that is making sure there's enough money for state and local government. they need to provide those essential services and we need them to have enough money that they're not laying people off. so that's critical. i've been pushing hard for the central worker's bill of rights,

so our frontline workers, doctors and nurses, and the people who mop the floors in the hospitals, the people stocking the shelves at the grocery stores, people making deliveries, the people who are picking up the garbage, that all of those folks have got appropriate protective equipment and health care coverage. but also that they're getting hazardous duty pay and getting enough support, and they have whistleblower protections. so that they are fully protected. and we've got a lot of that in the bill. the bill also has in it one of the big pieces -- it's got student loan debt forgiveness in it, which i'm really excited about. $10,000 for each person who has outstanding student loan debt. it will be canceled from the principal and a delay on payments. that's going to be really stimulative to the economy. help relieve a lot of burdens for a lot of young people.

so these are good pieces in there. it's also got a piece in it to protect voting. on the other hand, there's still work to be done in this bill. there's not nearly enough money for child care. and child care has become like basic infrastructure. if we want parents to be able to go back to work and reopen the economy, if we want people out on the front lines, we have to support the child care centers, so they've got the resources they need to be able to operate safely, and be financially secure. absolutely critical to what we're doing. we also need oversight in this bill. oversight on how the president and steve mnuchin dole out money from what is effectively a $450 billion slush fund for giant corporations. we need to put some curbs on that and some essential oversight. and we need to make sure that everyone in this crisis has full

health care coverage. you're in the middle of a pandemic, and yet with 20 million people just last month losing their employment, they've also lost their insurance. and we've got to make sure that everybody stays covered. we're in this together and we need to have a good bill all together. and the democrats, we started in the right direction, but there's still a lot of work to be done on it. >> senator elizabeth warren of massachusetts, great to see you, senator. thanks for making time to be with us tonight. i appreciate seeing you. >> good to see you. >> we'll be right back. stay with us. you too, thanks. emiums. we're also offering flexible payment options for those who've been financially affected by the crisis. we look forward to returning to something that feels a little closer to life as we knew it, but until then you can see how we're here to help at libertymutual.com/covid-19. [ piano playing ]

and ask your doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable can no longer transmit h-i-v through sex. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a buildup of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take, if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b, do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your doctor. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. if you're living with hiv, keep loving who you are. and ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you.

if you're living with hiv, keep loving who you are. ibut nothing makes me feel like pnew always discreet boutique. outside, it's soft like underwear. inside, it turns liquid to gel. for incredible protection, that feels like nothing but my underwear. new always discreet boutique.

thank you for being with us tonight. that is going to do it for us for now. i'll see you again tomorrow. now time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." good evening, lawrence. >> good evening, rachel. so 10:00 a.m., you had to make a choice. you listened to the senate hearing with the coronavirus task force witnesses, or you listened to the supreme court. what did rachel maddow choose? >> it was a very easy choice. being able to listen in live to the supreme court is such an amazing novelty to me. so, yeah, i like built a whole