welcome back. i'm ali velshi. after years of relative silence president obama is speaking out about the current administration. during a virtual commencement address he delivered yesterday to graduates at his tore click black clnlgs and universities without naming names obama took aim at the white house. >> more than anything, this pandemic has fully finally torn back the curtain on the idea of folks in charge know what they're doing. a lot of them aren't even pretepiding to be in charge. if the world is getting better, it is up to you. >> those comments come on the heels of some leaked remarks obama made to former aides in a call to support joe biden that the trump administration's pandemic response is a chaotic disaster. in a statement responding to the address, the white house says in

part, quote, president trump's coronavirus response has saved lives and doesn't appear to hold up against trump's own words. he said that the number of deaths of covid-19 in the united states would be less than 60,000. right now almost 90,000 americans have died. and counting. this all comes, of course, as more areas around the country are reopening in some capacity but some state that is reopened weeks ago are not painting a perfect picture. texas continued to set daily death toll records as recently as thursday and friday. look at this massive lean at a food bank in dallas planning to hand out 10,000 boxes of food, an increase of 2,500 over last month. some in line said they got there at 2:00 in the morning. >> this is my third attempt at this location. of course i'm unemployed. i have two out of five of my

kids home. one is -- has a diagnosis because of covid. thankful for whatever i can get, it's within of those situations. >> economic security is tied to food security so we're going to see demand like this for years. >> meanwhile, you may not realize it both the democratic and republican national conventions are now less than 100 days away. the gop says it's still planning to hold the convention as scheduled at the spectrum center in north carolina with 50,000 people in attendance. the city of charlotte remains under a modified stay-at-home orders and limited gatherings to no more than ten people. the democrats delayed the convention scheduled for mid-july in milwaukee, wisconsin. now unclear in what capacity. joining me is chairman of the democratic national convention

tom perez. thank you for being with us. what is your guess, what is your sense right now of what happens on august 17th? is there an in-person gathering? is there a modified in-person gathering where delegates are not there? what are you thinking snabtd. >> well, we have given our committee the maximum flexibility to make that judgment. we will have a safe and exciting convention. the reason i can't answer that question with precision is we are going to follow the public health scientists. we are working with city of milwaukee, milwaukee county, state of wisconsin, federal officials because we want to make sure that we don't put people in harm's way. this isn't a convention of joe biden's ego. this is a convention about our values and about what we stand for so we may end up having less people than we would have otherwise had in a nonpandemic moment but we're going to make sure it's exciting however it

is. this is about leading and, you know, ali, the thing about it is whether we have everybody there or some percentage there, here's the deal. the american people want to know that they have a leader who can get things done. we have 36 million people out of a job. we have had this chaotic, incompetent response. that's what the american people care about. they want a leader like joe biden to get us back on track, who's going to help get the jobs back, who's going to have a response to the pandemic that's rational, science driven and we are going to have a convention what's science driven. >> is there some way in which you can conceive of a convention that's mostly virtual? in other words, maybe some people are at a convention in a large hall spaced out but that the participants are virtual, that might be beneficial? is that a way to get more people

involved on a platform on the computer from the comfort of their home? is there a world in which that might even be better? >> we don't know the precise formoofo format of the convention and the chairman of the convention produced the super bowl halftime show, the academy awards, the convention multiple times, we have a remarkable creative team and before this pandemic hit we said we want to reimagine our convention, we want to reimagine how we talk to the american people. we are going to be using so many different platforms because different people consume their news on different platforms so i'm excited about what we are going to be doing and regardless of how the format ends up being, how many people we get in the arena, what i know for sure is it is going to be very, very robust, we will be talking about the heroes, talking about the

vision for getting america back on track. we need a bold leader who has competence, demonstrated competence and that's what joe biden is about and making history with the first female vice president of the united states and we're not going to put the residents of milwaukee in harm's way. we are working very closely with the city of milwaukee and they've been wonderful, ali. whatever the format ends up being i'm confident it's going to be exciting and what the american people want is who can i trust to dig my way out of the worst economic mess of my lifetime? who can i trust to help keep me safe? this president has been an abject failure, chronically incompetent as you have pointed out and we talk monthly about the jobs reports. we never had a job -- >> so let's talk about that. let's talk about that.

i want to talk to you about that right now because you were the secretary of labor. you understand this -- these numbers in greater clarity than a lot of people do. at this point, we are looking probably and saying currently, these are numbers to get in june, we are probably getting very close to 17%, 18% unemployment. there are some projections to go as high as we were in the great depression. what do you think happens? how many bounces back when we reopen versus a year from now in terms of people out of the workforce entirely? what's the labor secretary tom perez thinking about right now? >> we are in a huge ditch. when we left the administration in 2017, hispanic unemployment was 5.9%. now it's over triple like 18.7%. african-american unemployment rate over double what it was at

the end of the obama administration. we had the longest uninterrupted streak of private sector job growth in our nation's history and wiped out in six weeks because of this president's incompetent response and what i see moves forward because this president doesn't understand until we have testing and tracing at scale we can't get the economy back at scale. and so, his continued incompetence is making it harder for our economy to come back and so there's so many small businesses who are under capitalized on a good day and the notion to bons back right away is really i think fanciful at the moment. when you don't have the leadership here in the white house, when you don't have a plan for getting people back, we have to fix the public health in order to fix the economy. and what has happened with this president is he's created a

false choice. i either open the economy or i fix the public health problem. you fix -- >> tom, let me ask you a question. you and i have had this conversation a lot. we are both descendants of impants. i'm an immigrant to the united states. i was talking of meat packing earlier. the number of people and part of the reason the hispanic unemployment rate is up is because of the low-wage jobs they're in. we have cut out so many low-wage workers from the economy. some of them are stuck working. looking out the window it is delivery people earning the lowest of wages. meatpackers earn $13.68 an hour on average. we are seeing that our immigrant labor force or our immigrant descendant labor force at the front lines of this thing,

becoming the essential workers and they are horribly paid. >> you look at iowa and what they didn't do there, shame on the companies that were withholding information of how many people had been in harm's way. i think there was, you know, within meat packing plant like 45% of the workforce was infected and they didn't tell people about that for a long time. and to make matters worse, i was watching your whole show, the department of labor enforces occupational safety and health laws and effectively abdicated responsibility for that. there's no accountability for the failures to keep workers sif right now. the occupational safety and health administration's job is to keep workers safe and what this president has done through executive action is emasculate the critical work of career

professionals there and immigrants are at harm's way. this president said in 2016 in detroit to african-americans, what do you have to lose? well, you know what? we know the answer to that. your job, your life and your livelihood. look at the racial disparities for african-americans, latinos and native americans in covid-19. look at the abject job loss for these communities. the abject job loss for everyone. i wish we could get back on track fast but i have seen as your labor secretary that it doesn't happen that fast. and unfortunately when you don't have a plan moving forward it gives me no optimism. this president has been chronically incompetent and what we know, ali, about a moment like this is that when you have massive job losses it exacerbates job losses and so folks who were living on the

edge on a good day have fallen off the edge and your reporting there about texas, food banks. and to add insult to injury, this administration's incompetent response at the agricultural department, there was a lot of food that could have been marshalled to give to people but they didn't have a delivery system in place to capture that. >> yeah. >> it is one bumbling mistake -- >> got rid of that food, threw it away. tom, good to see you as always. former secretary of labor tom perez. remember yesterday i was talking to you about the space force? that launch didn't happen because of the weather. the space force is giving it another shot. yesterday they attempted a launch of this secretive x-37-b space plane. they will try again today. the launch is scheduled, it should be -- going to put up the screen but i think t-minus two

minutes. let me just see it to see the countdown, please. nbc news national news correspondent is standing by. there we go. t-minus 1:38. courtney is this going to happen? >> reporter: i mean, it looks a little bit better. getting closer than we were yesterday for launch. conditions with favorable. this time before yesterday's launch window they had a 40% chance of go. right now it is closer to an 80% so the cloud cover isn't as bad. there's not rain. there is a little bit of wind but remember this atlas rocket with the payload can sustain a little bit of wind because it is heavier. it can sustain some wind before it gets out of the bad weather so right now we are closer. >> let's take a look at this. they have taken the countdown

down. they have released hold. they're ready for liftoff. they have closed all the approvals. everybody's there. the payload is ready to jettison. we are within 15 -- let's listen to the countdown. >> six, five, four, three, two, one. there's ignition. and liftoff of the united launch alliance atlas rocket for the united states space force on a mission dedicated to america strong. >> good? party 180 has gone to close loop control. >> you're hearing the voice of rob kessleman. >> looks good. now 35 seconds into flight. atlas is now just under 1 mile

in altitude. traveling at 900 miles per hour. engine pump speeds and injector families are in for this thrust level. the vehicle has now completed the pitch roll program. now 70 seconds into flight. atlas is now four miles inality lewd. .4 miles down range distance traveling at 1,200 miles per hour. past mach-1. passing through maximum atmospheric pressure. max q.

now throttling down slightly as commanded. pump speed response looks good. now 115 seconds into flight. 14 miles in altitude. 5.6 miles down range distance traveling at 2,000 miles per hour. >> that is absolutely incredible. keep that picture up. 2,000 miles per hour. there's some tough times in america right now but when you look at that you realize there's really nothing that we can't do. that is a rocket ship, that is a camera from a rocket ship looking back down at earth. a ship going 2,000 miles per hour right now. that launch finally made it 24 hours after it was supposed to. i want to bring in courtney. i will never ever, ever, ever,

ever get tired of watching a rocket launch. it is as symbolic as it gets of the innovation we have been talking about, i was talking to thomas piketty about and american innovation and tom perez. in the end when you look at what america's able to do with this you get a real sense about the fact when we come together and put the capabilities and minds together we can do amazing things. what happens now that this thing has launched? >> reporter: so the -- it'll go up into orbit and basically an unmanned space plane. that is what they put up into orbit. it will go up, we don't know how long it is going to stay up there. usually months. the last mission 700 days so it can stay up for months or years and will conduct a number of experiments. one thing we know, there's many classified experts on the mission and one is the air force academy, a number of cadets spent several years building a

satellite. once it's up in orbit it will release that satellite and that will be able to gather more information and conduct some more experiments for the cadets back here in colorado springs. they will gather information back in colorado springs and learn from it. they're doing a number -- the tests are pretty intricate and for space geeks like you and i are interesting. testing semiconductors and new innovative ways for engineering but the cadets and then the air force learn so much from the experiments. we don't know how long the satellite will stay up in orbit but it will crash down and the space plane is a reusable platform and will come back down and land back on earth assuming there's no damage or anything. theoretically it could be back up in space again in a matter of a couple of years, ali. >> i'm glad to share this moment with you.

i love when rockets launch while i'm on tv. thank you for being with me and maybe if i do the rest of the show okay the executive producer will allow us to take 30 seconds at the end of the show to listen to the last ten seconds of the countdown and watch that rocket launch again because i would like that. joining me now the mayor of charlotte, north carolina, and former reasons chairman michael steele, also the host of the michael steele podcast. thank you for being with us. mayor lyles, great to see you again. >> thank you. >> what do you think about the convention? you are not supposed to have gatherings more than ten people but in a couple of months you will have 50,000 people in the same place. what are you thinking about? >> i'm thinking about in 2018 we were going to showcase our community and 1 in 9 works in hospitality and something we thought to say we did the 2012 convention for the democrats and

we would do the 2020 convention for republicans. but we now are really in a position where we have to put the science and the health and well-being of our community first and foremost. so as we're planning this, i'm sure there are a number of scenarios to be worked through and over and over again. the one thing that's consistent for me is we have a contract with the rnc to host this convention. but we also have a commitment to our community that we will keep them safe and well and that's where we're focused and will be our focus no matter what time of the year it is. you know? our community thought that we would be talking about protests and security and keeping people safe that way. and here we are fighting the unknown, covid-19. and so we have to win that fight first. >> michael, good to see you, my friend. talk to me about what you think the rnc needs to be thinking about. you heard my conversation with tom perez.

what do you think should be happening? >> well, i think they should be in conversation with the mayor obviously and coordinating and sort of beginning to put in place a plan b, c, d with respect to where we may or may not be come august and convention time. that's the reality of it. as much as the president and the rnc want to have a convention, they also have to be aware that the state and the city have some say about how that's going to play out. and if there are, you know, some form of stay in place or smaller venue, you know, gathering kind of a restriction in place that's going to have to be accommodated. where you may, for example, not have 50,000 people there, only the delegates will be able to allow to attend and spread out around the arena, and that's

really at the end of the day all that matters. the delegates are there. you don't need the extra, you know, 45,000 people who will show up. you can get the 5,000 delegates in the arena, spread them out accordingly and still have your convention and then all kind of other virtues things to do. there are options here for the rnc, a lot of which will be dictated by the president, but the reality of it is that coordination has to be right now with the mayor, her team, and understanding exactly what the city is going to allow because just because you want to have a convention doesn't mean the city there allow you to have the convention the way you want to have it, particularly at a time of pandemic. >> mayor, what -- to what extent are you having conversations with the rnc about this? is it too early to do that? have you given them a drop dead date where you have to make a decision? question two is, regardless of

how they organize the convention, can you accommodate the people necessary? because even your hotels and everything to do with charlotte is going to have to be -- everything is working on a modified basis later this summer. talk to me about the logistics. >> it is important. michael great a point. 50,000 people means the media, corporations that would come down and support and having a presence in charlotte at the time. i would expect that those things will be very different now. so i believe that working with the local host committee, with marsha lee kelly, we will have a number of scenarios and each includes something that's safe. we can't do it if it's not safe and we have to follow the directions of our scientists to do that. where we work on a regular basis, we meet often and we're going to meet more often because we are getting close. where that 100-day mark and what does it really look like? i know they want a convention.

the democrats in milwaukee, we are not different than they are. when we talk about what we do to keep people safe, we have to follow the lead and fortunately now the democrats are right before the republican convention. i think that we'll see some that will help us be better but no matter what it is, no matter what, it hads to be about keeping people safe, that means following the science. we have vulnerable populations in charlotte. we have people that have chronic diseases. we have our elderly. we need more testing. we need to trace people wherever they are but we can't go into this with just we agreed to something in 2018 and we are going to continue to do it. that is not the world today. >> i mean this with the deepest of gratitude and admiration, mayor, but, michael, what the mayor is saying sounds so reasonable, such as to be boring because that's what you have to do. you have to follow the evidence. you have to speak to public

health officials, make your decision. that's not how the president's talking about this. >> yeah, yeah. he's -- it's typical trump. big, brash, bold. we'll do the biggest, the greatest. a million people there. but all of that is contingent on the sobering reality that the mayor laid out. look, at the end of the day charlotte, you know, existed before the rnc show up, charlotte has to exist after the rnc leaves. in other words, you know, it can't be sicker once we leave charlotte than we were before we arrived and that's the concern that the mayor has. you don't know how this virus is going to be tracking in august. you don't know what lead times they're going to be in terms of the kinds of preparations that you need to do then versus what

you are doing now so this is why the conversation, i'm sure the rnc team will be if they haven't been in touch with the mayor talking through all of these various steps. the mayor is right. what was negotiated in 2018 is not necessarily what you are doi going to do, probably not at all for 2020. when we started negotiations in 2010 for the 2012 election there was, you know, certain realities that the city of tampa put before us and said, look, you know, it is going to be a little bit different because summers, storm patterns, the variables that you don't know come into play so now you have the biggest variable of them all, ali, and that's coronavirus. and mayor has to be sensitive to that. >> thank you to both of you. mayor lyles, you know i'm a great admirer of yours and mean no harm of saying that it's boring and sometimes doing the

right thing for those that are at home and would rather be outside is boring but the right thing to do. good to see you as always, mayor lyles of charlotte, north carolina, and my friend, michael steele. >> hey, ali, i hope they show that rocket again! >> thank you. i appreciate it. >> that shows you what we can do. thank you. that is a great -- >> we should all be rocket geeks. that is the one thing that we can all come together as americans about. we love that progress. thank you. my executive producer i hope is listening to that. i'm going to talk some attorneys general of reopening states next but before we go to break, i no ed to show you this. when the humans are away, the penguins will play. take a look. the kansas city zoo let their penguins have free rein over the nelson-atkins museum. the trip called an enrichment experience by the zoo and it was for the penguins to stimulate their minds.

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we're in the wild west, ali. there are no restrictions at all across the state of wisconsin. the cavern league in the state sent messages, emails to their members saying we are open tonight. so at this point in time, there is no, no orders.

there's nothing that's compelling people to do anything other than having chaos here. >> wisconsin democratic governor tony evers reacting to the state supreme court decision to overrule his request to extend stay-at-home orders to limit the spread of the coronavirus. in a 4-3 vote the court siding with the gop lawmakers in a challenge of the order in the pandemic leading to scenes like these at local bars at patrons packed establishments that had been shuttered for weeks due to lockdowns. many not wearing masks or practicing any form of social distancing but not everyone in wisconsin is following that ruling. the mayor of madison, state capital, calling the court's decision to overturn wisconsin stay-at-home order outrageous. the mayor con way tweeting safer at home guidelines in effect in madison and dane county until may 26th. setting up a divide that might

play out in other states, as well, leaving questions on whose guidance you are supposed the follow. joining me are some folks in the thick of the questions. dana nestle is michigan's attorney general, carl racine, district of columbia attorney general. thank you for being with us. attorney general nestle, you've got a similar situation in michigan in which there's a challenge to the governor's stay-at-home order, in fact r, fact, it gets weird in michigan with armed protesters going to the state house but the wisconsin supreme court judgment was interesting. it says that because the pandemic spreads over a larger span of time the emergency orders cannot be affected by a statewide ruling. how do you read that ruling and how does it apply to michigan? >> obviously we have different laws in place in michigan and the courts are different, as well, in terms of the makeup of the court so we'll see what happens.

it was the republican legislature who filed a case against our governor and heard on friday. the court has indicated they'll likely have a decision this week but the funny thing about it was in terms of the challenge against the governor what the republicans never said that our policies were bad. and they never said why shouldn't have those actual regulations in place and there was almost a con essential that they were important policies and saved the lives of countless people in our state and in the vent that it's turned over and struck down all you are doing is costing the lives of countless, thousands and thousands of people that live in our state. >> attorney general racine, you have an unusual situation in the district of columbia of a mayor,

the federal government with authority over some of the district and then you have got really the governors of maryland and virginia because so many of the people who work in the district live in those places and then you have got their competing interest with local authorities and very hard. you are the great example of whose rules exactly are we following here? >> well, thank you, ali. i'm happy to say that the district of columbia has been entirely cooperative with maryland and virginia from the beginning of the pandemic. while maryland and virginia may decide to reopen sooner than the distri district of columbia based on the science and the medical data, the district of columbia and mayor and council decided to keep -- remaining at home for another couple of weeks.

our guidance has been clear. >> attorney general nessel, let's tack about the other responsibilities, you have been talking to a lot of of attorneys general around the country about the things you have had to do to step in because of all the things that coronavirus has caused, including the breaking of laws, some of the breaking of laws in protest, of the rules that are put in, some of the gouging that's going on. tell me about some of the things that you have had to do. >> well, as soon as this crisis began, we saw, you know, price gouging really at numbers we have never seen before in our state and just to give you an idea of how bad it is, in typical year here in michigan we see 80 complaints of price gouging. within the first couple of months of this epidemic we have seen over 4,000 complaints and we have had to investigate hundreds and hundreds of those complaints so we don't have a

situation where people can't afford to buy the products they need, the hand sanitizers and the masks to keep their families and households safe not to mention it's so expensive now to buy staples that you need, eggs and bread and meat. so we have had to be very active in that and also the scams. dozens and dozens of covid-19 related scams, whether it's fake testing or, you know, so-called inoculations or vaccines or cures for covid-19. we have had to step up our game with our consumer protection division to combat the scams because they're afraid for their lives. >> thank you for the both of you for the work you oar doing and joining me this morning. we'll talk again soon. the airline industry has been hard hit during this

pandemic as we know and according to ceo dave calhoun of boeing getting back to normal may take three to five years. >> how grave is the threat to the airline industry? >> well, it is grave. there's no question about it. and apocalyptic does accurately describe the moment. as people begin to relive their lives, we expect that they will also get back to traveling. we believe we will return to a growth rate similar to the past but it might take us three, five years to get there. >> all right. what's the likelihood of that if passengers don't feel safe? major airlines have mask requirements for all flight attendants and passengers to enter the plane but if a passenger takes off the mask on the airline employees do not have the authority to force them to put it back on. there are also no government rules for social distancing on

flights leaving each airline to determine its own policy. there's outage after pictures showed what passengers showed relaxed social distancing policies on united, delta and american airlines but because there's no regulations of the administration flying is a health hazard. something our next guest is working hard to change. at least flight atn dants died the virus and more than 250 within the association of flight attendants tested positive and many more not members of the association who have tested positive. joining me now is president of that association, sarah nelson, a co-chair of the biden/sanders economic task force. you and i have spoken several times over the last few months of larger economic issues having to do with workers and relief plans but i want to speak specifically of airline workers right now. the images of passengers not wearing masks and passengers

crammed together on flights a endangers passengers and flight crews. what do we do about this? >> this is a huge problem and this has to come from a coordinated response from the government. air travel is way down and we need our airlines and we are continuing that essential service but air travel down to 10% of what it was before an enwhat that is going to do is create full aircraft so during this time when we have this federal funding we were always supposed to be putting in place safety policies that would help to regain the confidence of the traveling public and be able to lift our economy again. we are right in the middle of the problem right now. and what we did, i want to remind people what we did is we got federal funding that said that the airlines cannot lay off anyone before september 30th. but what the gop senate members did in the process of writing that bill was they decreased the amount needed to get that done and then further secretary mnuchin further degraded that

amount of money so we have got incredible financial strains here that are colliding with making good safety decisions. >> let's talk about what the boeing ceo calhoun said that one airline, one american airline may go bankrupt. airlines are sometimes in tenuous situations. where do the protections come in for flight attendants if an airline goes bankrupt? >> there are no protections for flight attendants or consumers in bankruptcy and what mr. calhoun said is incredibly callous as we try to make it work for ourselves and the american public but we have to realize this is a crisis that we have not seen during the entire history of the aviation industry. and the other thing that we did through this federal funding was we made sure there's no stock buybacks. people talk about the airlines shouldn't have been pumping money into stock buybacks but the reality to fix a problem you have to define it and the fact

of the matter is that coming out of the bankruptcies after 9/11 and then the mergers, the airlines had to build confidence in investors so people like warren buffett invested again in the airlines when they said we'll give you all the stock buybacks. it is the system. it is not just the airlines but i'll tell you something else. as soon as we passed that legislation warren buffett did you evered the airline stock and an unpatriotic thing to do and shows that the system in place right now is not set up to make good business decisions, it is not set up for flight atn dants and workers and consumers because if an airline goes bankrupt what will happen is a bigger squeeze on the airline employees, on the consumers. the seats close together, the fees, the conditions on board the aircraft. that is all due to bankruptcies and consolidation of the industry so we are fighting hard to make sure that that doesn't happen because it's not the way

to protect the industry we all need. >> the idea of that money that went to the airlines to keep as much staff as possible on payroll until september 30th was a very good one and one that hadn't been tried as much in america in the past. it is mmp more as we discussed something that europeans do but to go to september 30th and the part that works until september 30th what we are realizing is we don't be anywhere near a new normal at september 30th. does that need to be extended? >> that is going to have to be extended because as you saw and reported today on twitter ali, the united airlines saying they need 3,000 of 25,000 flight attendants for june and should help peoplens t understand the gravity of the situation but we saw funding for corporations through december 31st and already a roecognition it is

going on longer than expected and hopeful that they'll take the airline plan for that federal money is targeted right at front line workers, tell the corporations how to spend the money and you put restrictions on them that they cannot lay anyone off. we have got to reverse those unemployment numbers and stop them and frankly when we talk to flight attendants and the plan we put forward we recognize in a good economy flight attendants need other industries to have those same protections to buy tickets on the other side of this. we need safety measures if place. we need the government working on this right now. there's no way to properly social distance on the aircraft and we need a task force and the people on the front lines putting together a plan that can keep people safe, regain confidence and on the other side of this struggle with the coronavirus we can invite people back to air travel with confidence and restart our economy. >> sara, good to have you here.

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i want to see the ban of no knock warrants and body cams in this situation like this because brianna should still be here. she loved life, loved to help

people. brianna loved family. she just was -- she was a very sweet person and she went out of her way for anybody. >> that was tamika palmer, the mother of bring and yeah taylor calling for a ban on no-knock swarpts allowing law enforcement to enter a private residence without identifying themselves. brianna taylor was shot and killed in early march in her home by what a law enforcement filed by the family said is police executing a botched late night drug raid add her home despite it being the wrong house. she was shot eight times. the three officers involved have been reassigned pending investigation and another controversial shooting the death of unarmed ahmaud arbery renewed calls and the video of the death was made public, according to police reports the two suspects

charged with the murder gregory and travis mcmichael say travis shot him in self defense and now we know that gregory played a role in leaking a copy of the video of the video to a local station. gregory wanted the public to know the truth, that's a quote. i want to bring in derama kasa. this thing is weird. the guy, one of the two people charged for the death of ahmaud arbery wanted the video of arbery being shot released because he thought that would be exculpatory. that's just weird. it actually -- it is the thing that proved that they killed him. >> it makes no sense. makes no sense. but it is a reminder of the arrogance of people who have been involved with law enforcement before, the arrogance of this community, that thought, like, they could kill somebody, they put the video out, they would be exonerated and you have to

remember the police didn't arrest them at all initially, there were no charges filed n their mind, they were, like, we're going to get off scot free and that's not the case. there have been renewed calls to disband that police department because of a whole string of egregious things they have done in the past. hopefully that happens and that goes through. >> will that matter? because in this day and age, they had video, the police had video in february of the killing of this man, and they had -- all manner of excuses about why they didn't arrest these guys, all the way to the fact that because of the pandemic, they couldn't get a grand jury convened, and they would have to wait until after that. there is nobody in america who actually believes that's a credible excuse. as soon as the georgia bureau of investigation got that video, they saw just cause to arrest these two men instantly. >> yes, i think it might matter if the police department gets disbanded, it could be -- could

set a model for people across the country. this will go to voters. the way the law is proposed in the state is go to voters to decide whether they want to disband the police department and that's a powerful thing. it shows the power rests in community and community should set the standards of what makes them safe, who keeps them safe and how to enforce safety. it is not lost on me that one of the two men involved lost his certification repeatedly to make any arrests because he wouldn't even go to training. and when we look at the documents on that, it is clear that he just didn't care at all. so, you know, we think about these things as mixed and think about briana taylor too and the police inflicting harm on people or just not doing their jobs. >> the reason people have invoked the term lynching, i'm careful not to do that because lynching was a horrible thing, but that that video and, again, we're waiting to see what the

evidence demonstrates, but the video shows a guy running away, and two other people cutting him off, stopping him, accosting him, and then he's dead. and their excuse was that they thought he seemed like someone who might have been robbing houses in the neighborhood. that's generally not the standard we use to kill people. >> it is not. it is interesting about it is that there are use of force laws and policies across the country that do protect officers in similar situations. so it makes sense to me that people who are involved in law enforcement would use such a wild standard to make decisions. you think about oregon, in oregon, today, the law literally says if an officer thinks you just committed a felony or if they think you're about to commit a felony, they can use deadly force. and, you know, the bar for what a felony is really low, like people have no conception of how simple a felony is, it is not what we see in movies. so it seems like he just extended that same logic here. if he thought something wrong

happened, he could initiate an arrest. if he can initiate an arrest, he can use force. it is a very law enforcement way to think about this. so i'm not surprised. i'm disheartened, ahmaud should be alive today and that's very clear. >> do you think -- do you feel better now that that video got out there, there was a little bit of noise about it and finally an arrest was made, does it tell you that at least when things appear on video, we might ultimately do the right thing? >> that's what is actually really hard about it. is that video, i want video more than i don't want video. we know that there is not even a conversation in the absence of video this is what happens to black and brown people. we need proof over and over they got harmed. we got to see it, we got to share it. the need to consume the destruction of black bodies is intense and it has been this way for a long time. we see in so many cases even with video, it doesn't work in our favor. you see, they release that

video, they lease another video, we think he was roaming around in the neighborhood and that this house that was undone, even though we saw him get killed on tv, on film, we see a smear campaign that is started very quickly soon there after. so i'm hopeful the charges stick. i'm hopeful there is accountability. we pushed people about the difference between accountability and justice. accountability comes after the trauma. justice is the idea there is no trauma in the first place. >> good to see you. black lives matter organizer. thank you for watching. coming up next, stacey abrams will join joy reid to discuss her fight to protect voting rights and whether she's the right pick to be the former veep's veep. that's next on "am joy." first, one more look at that incredible rocket launch. >> t minus 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4,

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the curtain on the idea that so many of the folks in charge know what they're doing. a lot of them aren't even pretending to be in charge. all those adults you used to think were in charge and knew what they were doing, turns out they don't have all the answers. a lot of them aren't even asking the right questions. >> good morning. and welcome to "am joy." it is amazing to think that poised measured man who effectively handled the ebola crisis without an overwhelming loss of life was our president just four short years ago. if anything, the juxtaposition highlights the importance of what is coming up in november. with almost 1.5 million confirmed cases of covid-19 in the united states, and nearly 90,000 fatalities as a result, it is easy to forget what would otherwise be dominating the news cycle right about now, the presidential election. of all the ways that