i'm joshua johnson good to be with you tonight from nbc news in new york. it is getting more and more likely that tomorrow will be your first day back at work since the coronavirus closures began. but the pandemic is far from over. by our count, the known death toll, from covid-19, just passed 90,000 people. nearly every state has partially reopened. this week, some states will ease restrictions further. tomorrow, minnesota will resume retail shopping with social distancing. in south florida, many businesses in miami-dade and broward counties will begin reopening. in west virginia, gyms will reopen. health officials continue to

warn that this is all quite risky. the cdc director, dr. robert redfield says his agency is tracking 12 different forecast models, for coronavirus deaths. as of last monday, all the models predict a rising death toll, topping 100,000, by june. meanwhile, president trump faces more criticism for his handling of the pandemic. this time, from his predecessor. former president obama slid a not at all thinly veiled critique in a virtual high school commencement speech that aired here last night. >> more than anything, this pandemic is fully finally torn back the curtain on the idea that so many of the folks in charge know what they're doing. a lot of them aren't even pretending to be in charge. all those adults who we used to think were in charge and knew what they were doing, turns out they don't have all the answers. a lot of them aren't even asking the right questions.

>> president trump's response today was succinct. >> he was an incompetent president. that's all i can say. grossly incompetent. >> later, president trump tweeted, quote, the obama administration is turning out to be one of the most corrupt and incompetent in u.s. history. remember, he and sleepy joe are the reasons i am in the white house. unquote. and last night, eric trump claimed that democrats are criticizing his father over coronavirus to hurt the re-election campaign. that includes the big acceptance speech planned at the republican national convention. the gop says that has been, and is still on, with an expected crowd of 15,000 people. >> they think they're taking away donald trump's greatest tool which is to be able to go into an arena and fill it with 50,000 people every single time, right? so they will. and you watch. they will milk it every single day between now and november 3rd and guess what, after november 3rd, coronavirus will magically

all of a sudden go away and disappear and everybody will be able to reopen. they're trying to deprive him of his greatest asset, which is the fact that the american people love him. >> let's begin with nbc political reporter monica alba. what's the latest in this? has there been any more back and forth? >> yes, this is a significant ongoing conversation between the obama and trump campaigns. you've seen here the president go after his predecessor repeatedly in recent months, largely with barack obama not responding. not taking the bait, if you will. but in the last week, we did see a shift, with former president barack obama releasing privately in a conversation with alumni what he thought of the administration's handling of the pandemic, and then yesterday, very publicly coming out with that pointed criticism, though something that barack obama has continually done, as we know unmistakably what he is talking about, he doesn't directly

mention donald trump by name, and that has been something they will do, on the flip side, the trump campaign, as they are now nearing five and a half months away from the election in november, they are going full out with this strategy. they have been amplifying it. all over on tweets. and you can see that in all of their strategy. and what's unique here is that of course, they are going after the obama administration, and they face joe biden in that general election, the former vice president, and now opponent in that race, and they are trying to frame this as using the 2016 playbook to see if it will be effective for 2020, but eric trump though was echoing what so many of the president's supporters told me when i was on the campaign trail a few months ago, when those thousand people rallies were still being held, which is what, they didn't necessarily believe that this virus would come to the extent that it clearly has now. the question now, will the president be return together campaign trail, and what will he be saying?

we're told by advisers he will absolutely continue to amplify anything that attacks the obama regulation and by extension biden. joshua? >> i'm guessing we are expecting, monica, that the tone of what we hear from president obama may evolve as we get closer to november. i mean this was kind of a sideways reference to the president and we know exactly who he was talking about, a sideways reference during a commencement address, that came as kind of a surprise. no one knew that he was going to mention donald trump at all. even obliquely, during last night's program. is the strategy to kind of ramp up as we get closer to november? i mean if he wanted to come out swinging, he could have just called him for an interview. by the way my number is -- sorry, go ahead. why do it this way? >> i'm sure he knows how to get in touch with you for that, j h joshua. i think what is really remarkable the way president obama decided to deliver the remarks, it was absolutely calculated and they knew that an

inspirational venue, like a commencement special, they could have the young people taking away whatever message they wanted to and speaking to a larger audience at a time when former president barack obama can't be on the campaign trail in the traditional sense. would very heard from the biden campaign that he of course will be out and stumping for his former vice president when he can, ejust don't know how close to november that will be. but he will continue to support that message and support for biden in any way he can. we're told. >> and you can dm me, @nbc joshua. just saying. >> thank you, monica. the window is closing to address this pandemic. that's is a quote from dr. rick bright. he is a former leader in the federal search for vaccines and he just filed a whistle-blower complaint after losing that job. dr. bright was shifted to another job last month. he testified thursday, before a senate committee, examining our response to covid-19.

dr. bright said that we lacked a centralized coordinated plan to prevent this pandemic from getting worse. his dire predictions for the future raised some eyebrows. so did his testimony about federal officials ignoring the coronavirus threat, costing us time that might have saved lives. >> you first had concerns about the potential impact of covid-19 on the united states. >> in early january. >> bright was answering questions from massachusetts congressman joe kennedy, and the congressman joins us now. congressman, what did you make of dr. bright testifying that he was concerned about coronavirus way back in early january? >> what we've heard now for weeks, is that the devastation of this virus, that this virus has caused across our country, well perhaps, it was always going to be difficult, did not need to be nearly as deadly or as devastating and great as it has been, that this administration, not only took

steps before it arrived on our shores, to minimize our preparedness, and our ability to respond, but on multiple other occasions they were warned, they were told, and there were people out there screaming, and the trump administration didn't do anything about it, and now we are now past, the cumulative death toll of vietnam that we got in three and a half month with the virus, it is absolutely devastating and you can see the clip that you showed earlier, eric trump saying that this is somehow a mirage, it isn't a real thing, come to one of our hospitals here in massachusetts, talk to something who has seen, who has been on the ventilator for a month. talk to any one of the e.r. doctors, first responders who have given everything they got and to have somebody like that minimize their contributions and their sack figss, it is insulting to the first degree. >> let me play another clip. you also asked whether the

administration is prepared to administer a vaccine once we have it presuming of course that the vaccine comes to be ready during this administration. here is how dr. bright answered that. >> can we possibly say that this administration has prepared our country for the moment that we are in, and how we could possibly be prepared for the distribution, the development, the manufacturing and distribution of a vaccine to try to address 330 million americans over the course of the months ahead? >> i think we have a lot of work to do to be prepared, sir. >> congressman, what do you think that work looks like? whether it's under this administration or if there is a new administration in 2021, how do we make that happen? >> i think this begins with, in close coordination, with the operatives we have in government working with the private sector and it means starting to scale up a couple of different options now understanding that maybe some of these tracts that we're pursuing with regard to the vaccine will be successful, and

joshua, there is no way to manufacture hundreds of millions of doses and try to distribute them in any way that is fast or equitable, if we wait to the last second to see which one is actually successful. and think about that. notice the challenge that we have had with the distribution of ppe, across our country, and around the world. those are manufacturing lines that already existed and industries where people were cranking out those masks and gloves out beforehand. not so with this vaccine. with billions of doses on day one. and we have to get ready for it right now. and the one thing with dr. bright, it is one thing to play quarterback with all of the ways the administration has dropped the ball but china learned those lessons so we are in fact prepared for what comes next and he showed, he said, he didn't give us any reassurance that we're actually ready to do that. >> in ternal terms of how we do get performed the house had another coronavirus relief bill worth $3 trillion, senate

republicans and the white house said they have zero intention of passing, this and partly because it is expensive and measures unrelated to the core fight of saving lives, was that a smart move on the part of house democrats passing a bill that you must have known senate republicans would we ject out of hand? >> i would hope our senate colleagues would not reject it out of hand and i would hope they would look at the bill. is it expensive? of course. but the cost of not doing something is absolutely devastating. nearly a trillion in there for state and local aid. massachusetts alone is facing a deficit not only for our fiscal year that ends in june but the next one, combined in the tens of billions of dollars to. say nothing of texas or florida or california. and that local aid, that's health care, that's education, that's local law enforcement, that's parks, that's adoption services, these are critical services that our community needs. >> they are indeed and you got

to work with the republicans to get something done, otherwise you're not passing a stimulus, you're passing a statement. >> true, joshua, but the process by which we've been engaged here, as look what happened in the last, that last round of bill, mitch mcconnell came out and said this is what we're going to do and we said no, this is what we're going to do and that back and forth is how that process has actually been engaged in, we've been engaged in it over the course of the past several months and we have come to a house where we largely agree. not everybody but give how polarized washington is, the fact that you have had broad-based agreement on spending as of now, nearly there are 3 trillion, is a testament to the moment we're in and when we start talking about federal and state, or state, or excuse me, aid to states and municipalities and talk about hazard pay for essential workers and start talking about things for funding for testing so we can be certain we can in fact, open up our economy, we start talking about things like ppe,

for paramedics, and first responder, and firefighters, and this stuff is not, that is not controversial. and if there are parts that they don't like, then engage us in conversation. the part that i wish we did more on. but you know, this was a bill that i think is a critical first step. and it's an open bid for our senate colleagues. i sure hope that they understand, and we hear what mitch mcconnell has said, he doesn't see the urgency to this moment. how many more people have to die before we see the urgency of this moment? >> right, right. congressman joe kennedy of massachusetts. appreciate your time. thank you so much. >> thank you. stay well. up next, the view from puerto rico. add coronavirus to the list of natural disasters the island is recovering from. the mayor of san juan joins us just ahead. >> and the later, why did richard burr temporarily step down as chairman of the senate intelligence committee? we may be a bit closer to the full answer.

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puerto rico keeps getting forgotten. the damage from hurricane maria is still not fully resolved, it's also rebuilding from two earthquakes this year, and now, there's covid-19. this week, puerto rico's governor, juan divas quez specified how the island would allocate more than $2.2 billion in federal relief and trying to catch up for demand for testing and thousands of residents are still waiting for unemployment assistance two months into the puerto rico shutdown. that might explain why a controversial move is going to make puerto rico harder to forget. there will be another nonbinding referendum on becoming a state. the party supports statehood to give the territory more political party in washington. puerto rico has voted on this before. repeatedly. what will be different this time? joining us now is carmen yulin

cruz, the mayor of puerto rico's capital san juan. good evening. >> thank you very much. >> how is it going with everything going on, we often hear about the problems in puerto rico. are things getting better at all? >> things are not getting better. as you mentioned there are about 100,000 people who have not received any unemployment because of the efficiency of the local government. it took the local government about almost a month to start handing out the $1200 federal assistance. and now, it's almost like deja vu all over again. there is not enough contact tracing for people. there is not enough testing. and the municipalities have had to pick up the slack. in san juan, we have the only continuous drive-through testing system on the molecular testing in all of puerto rico and we are getting closer to testing 4,000 people not only from the san

juan area, but all of puerto ricos area, but the money doesn't come into people's hands and that is really devastating the economy at this point. >> well, i wanted to ask you about that very thing, regarding that federal relief funding more than $2 billion worth, some of that will go to disaster cleanup, some will go to unemployment, what do you think both of the amount and of the spending plan? >> well, there's never enough money when you have to come up with helping a crisis, and we have two hurricanes, category four, two earthquakes, this year, and then this devastation that is currently. it is like one crisis after the other, and the federal government, under president trump, continues to just not do what they're supposed to do. the sergeant general marswell put out a warning saying that president trump and this administration are hazardous to your health. the money has too many restrictions. but that also has to do with the

current government of puerto rico has had its scandals of corruption, and that we have to own up to that. it is very difficult to deal with what we are having to deal with, but it is important to know that municipalities need more resources. we have a republican governor, with puerto rico, given only 100 million of that 2.2 billion, just 100 million, to 78 municipalities. i'll give you an idea of what is happening in san juan. the daily basis we are giving people about 5,000 people, food, whether it's hot meals, or whether it is meals that you just take home and make. that's 30,000 people that are receiving on a weekly basis, and we expect that to go to 50,000 people. six out of every ten children in san juan are underneath the poverty level.

which is why it is so important, and we support a plan, with the representative of the virgin islands, to allow territory, and allow puerto rico, to insert itself in the supply chain of medical manufacturing. which would be very important for the united states at this point to be ready for the vaccine, and to be ready to take on all of the risks that have to be taken on going forward. >> i can't let you go without asking about this referendum on statehood. there has been other referendum on statehood including during the administration of the previous governor, and there was a referendum am 2012, where a majority voted for the status quo but statehood was the preferred alternative. there was a referendum in 2017 where the pro-status quo party boycotted the referendum. no surprise. it was unanimous for statehood. these vote, at least to me as an outsider seem to have been more heat than light. before i let you go, mayor cruz, is this referendum going to change anything?

>> it's a waste of time. it is something that velasquez is doing to try to get his party, the party to go and vote. it is a waste of time. it is a waste of $3.5 million that we could be using in order to get food, medication, and aid to the people that really need it. >> governor carmen cruz, the mayor of san juan, thank you for your time. >> thank you very much. an insider trading investigation that has unseated the chair of the senate intelligence committee, but he is not the only lawmaker under scrutiny. the latest just ahead. stay close. d to vision loss. so today i made a plan with my doctor, which includes preservision... because he said a multi- vitamin alone may not be enough. and it's my vision, my morning walk, my sunday drive, my grandson's beautiful face. only preservision areds2 contains the exact nutrient formula recommended by the national eye institute

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people don't want to so i share it. song by song. the dark and the light. the struggle and the joy with my mental health. what's your mission? use godaddy to help make it happen. this is a distraction to the hard work of the committee and the members and i think the security of the country is too important to have a distraction. >> north carolina senator richard burr has resolved that distraction, by temporarily

stepping down as chairman of the senate intelligence committee. the reason being, an fbi probe into possible insider trading. agents seized senator burr's cell phone, as part of the investigation. he is one of four senators under scrutiny for selling stocks after a january briefing on covid-19. burr says he's asked the ethics committee to open a complete review of the matter. joining us now, are "new york times" justice department reporter katie benner and msnbc contributor chuck rosenberg, a former u.s. attorney and senior fbi official. his podcast "the oath" begins the third season on june 3rd. thank you both for making time for us. katie, let me start with you. senator burr released a statement emphasizing the importance of the intel committee. how will this investigation into rim affect the committee's work? >> taking a step back, keep in mind the senate intelligence committee has had a lot of reporting on its own in the

russia investigation and verified what the intelligence community has said about russia's attempt to interfere in the election and burr has been a big part of that and it is interesting to see who will be chosen to chair that committee next going into the 2020 election given the issues of the russian election interference and election sbfrps by many other countries, it is going to be front and center. >> chuck, i want you to have to, i don't want you to have to stair into the crystal ball too much but i wonder what your sense of this where it will be going, is stepping down enough, is his senate seat on the line, might this blow over? what are you keeping an eye out for? >> i believe the amounts that were retired in 2022, but there is an interesting thing that happened, in order to get the contents of his cell phone, in order to get the contents of anyone's cell phone, the fbi needed to get a search warrant, and in order to get a search warrant, they had to go to a federal judge, and they had to demonstrate two things, that they had probable cause of the crime had been committed, and

that they had probable cause of evidence of that crime would be found on that phone. and so while a federal prosecutor, and i was one for many years, can say that a grand jury subpoena, really just on mere suspicion, or to confirm that nothing in fact, bad happened, in order to get a search warrant, you do need to show probable cause. that tells you, josh was, that this investigation is a bit more advanced and that mr. burr, to answer your question, while he's not guilty of anything, he hasn't been charged with anything and we need to keep that in mind and be fair to him, we need to keep in mind, too, that this is a serious matter at a more advanced stage now. >> and richard, you are correct, richard burr said in 2016 he would not be running for another term, so 2022 is when he will step down. >> katie, when senator burr stepped down from this committee, as you mentioned, he has requested that the committee declassify that report on russia's interference in the 2016 election.

what's his rationale for that request? >> i think that right now, the rationale behind any request for more transparency is just that. we need to know more information. what we're seeing is basically a battle happening right now between the justice department and the president on one side, or sorry, the leadership of the justice department on one side, and then on the other side, former just at this time 'tis department officials and people who worked on the original investigation. basically arguing about whether or not the decision to investigate the trump campaign's ties to russia were valid as well and arguing whether that investigation should have happened and arguing about whether or not russia wanted trump to succeed. a lot of things rit now are in dispute in the court of public opinion as much as they are in dispute in the intelligence community possibly more so, and the rationale is let's give the american public what we have found in order for them to make an informed decision on a decision that has not gone away. it is very much a front and center issue for this election. >> chuck, how do you see that,

in terms. the impact of the declassification of the upcoming election? we know, everybody may not want to admit this, but we know that russia screwed with us last time, and screwing with us ever since and tighten the screws right up to election day. does releasing this report really make that much of a difference? do you get a sense that a significant number of the american people still don't believe that russia did this? >> well, positions have hardened and they have been hardened for some time now. what i do want to give mr. burr, and the democratic leader on that committee, from virginia, some credit because they have functioned through all of this, and mostly a bipartisan thoughtful manner. and so will it add anything really to the debate? i don't think so. people who believe the russians have massively interfered in our election, and i'm one of them, will continue to believe, that and those that think it's a hoax, then president trump apparently thinks it's a hoax, will continue to believe that.

so i'm glad that at least one of the intelligence committees on capitol hill, in this case, in the senate, is functioning well, and professionally, but i don't think it's going to change very many mind, joshua. >> we should also just note, katie, before i come back to you that if you watched the robert mueller hearing, the only time he perked up in that whole process, was when he was being asked about russian interference. and he said, we need to spend more time talking about this. that was the one thing in the whole hearing that made him actually lean forward and kind of engage, like he really wanted to discuss that. katie, before i have to let you go, let's zoom out in this fbi probe, beyond senator burr, georgia senator kelly laufler sold a lot of state after the classified briefings and turned over documents and says she followed the law, does she merit more, or is richard burr the main character here? >> the persons i have spoken with inside the justice

department, the burr investigation is most advanced and to chuck's point they needed probable cause to get the warrants and i'm told they have not gotten such warrants on other senators. certainly senator finestein and her husband. and they are all people who they are looking at, whose trades they are curious about. but the most advanced investigation, the focus of investigation, is senator burr. >> katie benner of th"the new yk times" and chuck rosenberg host of the podcast "the oath" thank you both for talking to us. there are some disturbing discrepancies in a reported number of coronavirus tests dmi administered across this country. that is next. this is my body of proof. proof i can fight moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. proof i can fight psoriatic arthritis... ...with humira. proof of less joint pain... ...and clearer skin in psa. humira targets and blocks a source of inflammation that contributes to joint pain and irreversible damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections.

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you heard it from expert, after expert, after expert, testing is indispensable to fully, confidently rekindle america's economy but how many tests have we actually done? the answer is complicated. last week, the cdc launched a web site to provide regular testing data. according to the atlantic, there have been discrepancies between what states and the federal government are reporting. the two data sets vary by more than 10%. in more than half the country. in 13 states, they vary by more than 25%.

now, these figures are inherently complex. some variance is probably inevitable. but why are the data sets so different? and how does that affect our fight to save lives? joins us now is alexis madrigal, a staff righter for "the atlantic," why is there so much discrepancy in the data sets? >> i think there are a few known sources of discrepancy, states tend to report the number of people tested and the federal government the number of specimens tested and beyond that we're not sure. the truth is we've been collecting and compiling the data for weeks and weeks and when the cdc put out numbers, we expect it to be quite close to what the states had and in fact, they are not and the discrepancies actually run in both directions, in some case, the federal government reports many more test, and in some case, the states do. and there is no simple way of explaining these discrepancies. >> is there any evidence that somebody is either messing up

their job, messing around with the numbers, intentionally playing fast and loose with the numbers, there is no evidence of some kind of intentional human rationale -- >> well, there isn't like an obvious political bias, for example, we don't see that, maybe a tiny bit of a touch and see, republican governor numbers looking a little bit more like the federal governments, but by and large, it doesn't look like a political thing, it looks more like a product of two different systems. you know, we know that the federal government builds quasi-independent system that sort of takes data from the states but also gets data directly from test providers. that was initiated by vice president pence and the coronavirus task force march 29. as we see, quasi-independent looking data set. it doesn't look like the numbers are fully confident. and there's one type of problem that we really would like to call attention, to and you take

a look at a state like florida, where the federal government is reporting 200,000 more specimens tested for the state of florida itself. this is a real question, because the state of florida issued an emergency order that required that all tests be reported to the state. so for some reason, the federal government and hhs have 200,000 more tests, that really poses more problems, either some companies and hospitals are not reporting what they should be to the state of florida, or there's a problem with the federal data set. >> this morning, we heard two conflicting accounts from administration officials about how well or poorly the cdc is doing. listen. >> early on, in this crisis, the cdc, which really had the most trust around the world, in this space, really let the country down, with the testing. >> i don't believe the cdc let this country down.

i believe the cdc serves an important public health role. >> so alexis, based on your reporting, what do you think is right? >> well, you know, both things can be right, actually. i think the cdc does serve a very important public health role and we think it would be best for account uninterest i if the numbers that the cdc has, and it became the standard data set for all of america. at the same time, the cdc clearly has had major problems. they've been defunded over the years. and there's a lot of questions about the leadership of the cdc. it makes for a very difficult situation. because the truth is, we need the cdc. we need the experts there. we need the people who have been dealing with outbreak after outbreak. we need their expertise. and they do need to be unleashed to do the very best job they can and the problem is right now, we're not sure why that is not happening. is it because of interference from the administration? is it because of problems in the leadership of the cdc? is it because they've been

gutted by the rounds of budget cuts over the decades? it's hard to know why kpajtly this particul, exactly this particular part of the cdc, that deals with pandemics around infectious disease does not show up around the world that people are expecting them to. >> and it is reported by "washington post," that at least a dozen states have more testing capacity than patients, and governor cuomo had the nasal swab, the one that goes all the way up the nose, and he didn't flinch, tough guy but i asked my doctor about getting the antibody test, not the nasal swab, the blood draw and they told me i could probably hold off if for no other reason than the antibody tests may not be accurate. is the issue that we don't have enough tests or that not enough people want to get tested? >> i think it's a combination. it's a great question. the truth is, that the nation's testing capacity has come up

enormously. just today, the states reported over 400,000 tests completed. that's an enormous increase over a month ago. and we do know that many states have more testing capacity than demand. the question is why is that? is the reason that we really don't need to test more people? or is that we have told people that tests are painful, that they're difficult to get? right now, we have someone we want to have tested in my own household and it is not as easy to get a test as it seems it should be given the macro importance, testing as many people as we can. i think there are a couple of things that will help with that. i think employers will come in and ask people to be tested. i think the nasal swabs will largely go away and you'll have people using saliva, and there will be more group testing, there is a whole bunch of different things. the point is, we're needing to make testing easier and more accessible and cheaper and more people to do it and that's the basic and just about everybody that i have talked to, believes that we need to increase the amount of testing, even from the much higher numbers that we have

now, a lot. and some of that is going to be making sure that the tests are available. and the other part is going to be making sure that people want to get tested and they're supported after they've received their results, whether they're positive or negative. >> easier, cheaper, more accessible, and accurate. reliable and accurate. and precise. think of all of those things were true, i definitely would have gotten the test by now. alexis madrigal of "the atlantic" thanks for talking to us. >> thanks. before we go, the president and the postal service. mr. trump is threatening to withhold funding in the next stimulus package. what would be the post office do? and why is it in trouble anyway? it's best we stay apart for a bit, but you're not alone. we're automatically refunding our customers a portion of their personal auto premiums. learn more at libertymutual.com/covid-19. [ piano playing ] our bargain detergent couldn't keep up. with us... turns out it's mostly water. so, we switched back to tide. one wash, stains are gone. daughter: slurping

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only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ if i gave you 55 cents and asked you to walk a letter from new york to california, you would give me, well, a dirty look, at least. but the u.s. postal service does it every day.

it's a good deal. from a struggling business, one that is struggling even more because of coronavirus. before the outbreak, the usps had already said it was in financial trouble. congress put money aside for it in the stimulus package. but last month, president trump balked at helping the post office. he said essentially that it would be throwing good money after bad. >> the postal service is a joke. because they are handing out packages for amazon and other internet companies and every time they bring a package, there's money on it. >> that same day house speaker nancy pelosi fired back at the president. >> for him to be toying with this notion that they have, that they are going to privatize the post office, the postal system, is something the public should be aware of, and should be concerned. >> joining me is mark, the president of the american postal

workers union. mark, good to have you with us today. this afternoon, the associated press quoted you, saying that union members fear the trump administration wants to destabilize the agency and then sell it off, unquote. but the president's argument, in terms of the way that the post office does business, do you see any merit in that? is there any room for critiquing the way that usps manages its money these days? >> well, joshua, first thanks so much for having me on. look, there is always room for improvement in any institution. we believe the post office that provides all sorts of expanded services, and that would bring in some revenue as well. but overall, we do not think that there is anything to the president's argument. in fact, what he's raising would destabilize the postal service. he is calling for the raising of packages four or five times.

the postal service, right, goes to every address, six days a week, sometimes seven, no matter who we are, where we live, it is a universal service, mandated, standard, that we all believe, and if package rates were artificially raised, one, there is the customer would be hurt, the post office would be hurt, it is 30% of the revenue comes from packages, and artificially raising rates would drive the postal service out of that business. but some people would be helped. a few private companies. a few mega donors would be helped along the way. so what's happening now, look, there are some long arm challenges, changing mail habits and soen and so forth, but the reality is that the crisis that the post office is facing now, the public post office is really directly due to this covid pandemic. so while we're as essential workers, are proud to be on the front lines working under difficult circumstances, binding

the country together which is our mission, the pandemic, economically, has had a huge economic impact on all of us, on the whole country and really on the world, but the post office is in dire straits, strictly because of this pandemic. remember, and a lot of us may not know, but the post office does not receive taxpayer dollars to run. it runs off the service. postage. and postal services. that has to be there to enable the postal service to go to every address every day. 160 million addresses a year. and right now, there's a precipitous drop in mail. a precipitous drop therefore in revenue. due to covid-19. and congress needs to act with some real relief. and when the president talks about raising prices in order to get relief, he didn't to that for $500 billion of grants and other kinds of relief, for private corporations. >> let me ask you this.

let me ask you about part of the public mandate of the post office. this morning stacey abrams spoke to msnbc's joy reid about the postal service's role in rural areas. here's part of what she said. >> the postal service a lifeline in communities. i grew up in mississippi. we have a lot of places that are urban but most of the state is rural. the same is true here in georgia. where we have between 24 and 40% of our people who do not have access to the internet. and eliminating or limiting access to the postal service, not only will justify the diminution of the community, but it will block their votes now but to harm their lives going forward. >> before i let you go, hate to ask this, but wouldn't it be more efficient, more effective, to use more tech alternatives like wiring rural areas for broadband to use email and online services more easily? do we now in the year 2020 still need the post office in every corner of the country? >> well, i think that we

absolutely need the post office. think about the changing habits of the e-commerce revolution. that's not going to work either. if everybody's tied into broadband, you still need a public infrastructure. and on a uniform and low cost, reasonable cost basis, it goes to every address in the country. medicines. 90% of v.a. medicines to our veterans go through the post office. 1.2 billion packages of medicine a year. retirement checks. stimulus checks. census information. voting information. exchange of ideas. greeting cards. all of those things, however people find that are needed, and important to them. it goes through the post office. and that's why it is no joke, for the customers of this country, and the people of this country. so the more people tied into broadband, great, more people will use e-commerce, and if e-commerce is going to work for small business, for e tailors

and the people of this country, they have to have a brie have, public infrastructure and no one would want voting to be done by internet because it could be so easily hacked but millions and millions of people who want to vote by mail, have generations voted by mail and with the pandemic that is obviously becoming a huge issue in this upcoming, in the whole primary season, and in november election coming up. >> mark, president of the american postal workers union, thank you very much for making time for us. and thank you for watching us here on msnbc. let's meet back again here this weekend. but until we meet again, next weekend, i'm joshua johnson. stay safe. stay sharp. we'll get through this. good night. guys, figuring out who counts

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