good afternoon. i'm chuck todd. here are the facts as we know them this hour. it is day two of the world health organization's virtual world assembly. the u.s. supported an audit of the response to this pandemic, but criticized a provision that would allow multiple companies, not just the patent holder, to produce a vaccine. last hour, new york governor andrew cuomo proposed a new law requiring companies that receive a government bailout to rehire the same number of employees they had prior to the pandemic.

the "uss roosevelt" will return to action this week. the ship has been sidelined in guam for over a month following a major outbreak of covid-19. it infected more than 1,000 sailors. they've had quite a few sailors continue to test positive but they have yet been able to get back on the ship. the globe theater, a reoccasion of one of shakespeare's theaters, may close for good. joining me now is my co-anchor for the next two hours, katy tur. happy tuesday to you. >> happy tuesday to you as well, chuck. let's take a look at the numbers this hour. more than 1.5 million confirmed cases of covid-19 across the united states. more than 91,000 people have died in this country alone. and as always, we must caution that the real number is likely much higher than that because these are simply the results of

our current testing. last week, the u.s. tested an average of 341,000 people per day. that is a big increase from about 268,000 the week before. but another reminder, an estimate from harvard says we should now be testing 900,000 people every day in order to reopen safely. another number for you that only stands to get worse this week is the unemployment number. 36 million last week. and something that came up today in both the banking hearing and in governor cuomo's news conference was this money that's going out in the c.a.r.e.s. act to these big businesses, cuomo said there should be a law that mandates if you'll take federal money that you need to maintain all of your employees. elizabeth warren brought this up as well and pressed secretary mnuchin on whether he would add that to the terms of the loans that the treasury department is writing. and he would not commit to that. and as we're looking at ppe,

looking at the smaller ppp loans, the smaller businesses, that is a contingency for the forgiveness for their loans. there are questions of why would you make that a mandate for the small businesses and not for the larger businesses? >> you know, my frustration on this topic, though, is the following. which is, look, i think we all agree we want to get everybody back to work, and this was an outsized natural disaster. but how do you bring back demand, and i think if the federal government, if i were a business owner, let me put it this way. i'm fine with that provision, but are you giving me all the tools i can to bring demand back? are you giving me all the tests that we need and the contact tracing? are you doing everything you can to make people feel safe to participate in the economy? it's sort of like -- i think that's all part of the deal, but if i was a small business owner or big business owner, either way, i need demand to come back,

too. i want to hire everybody. what are you doing to bring demand back other than just saying, please reopen? obviously, the biggest demand issue is people feeling safe. >>. >> i think part of the argument, though, is, if you aren't -- nobody can predict what demand is going to be, and we don't have those provisions in place as of now. and a lot of small business owners i talk to say, if you can't promise the things that you just said, then you need to extend the period for when we can rehire back these employees. if you give us more time to get back online, to get business back up and running, to see what demand is out there, then it will be easier for us to figure out what portion of the loans we're going to be able to pay back and what portion we're not going to be able to pay back. >> you know, you just created an interesting idea which is, give these companies a time horizon. they will bring back all these people but you've got to give them some breathing space to do it because we don't know what

you, the united states government are going to do to inspire and instill confidence in order to create the demand for it to come back. well, speaking of that topic, let's stick with it. president trump is meeting with republicans on capitol hill this hour. the lunch follows an earlier meeting between vice president pence and the republican leadership. the president's treasury secretary made an appearance on the hill today, albeit remotely. secretary mnuchin testified alongside federal reserve chair jerome powell. let's check in with garrett haake, our capitol hill correspondent who is live forrofor us on capitol hill. secretary mnuchin testified remotely. the president of the united states is physically going there. have you -- were there any special -- did you see anything special that the capitol did in order to deal with this today? >> chuck, as best i and the team can tell, no special preparations were made here. senators found out about the president's visit midmorning this morning.

as best we can tell, no testing for coronavirus was added here on capitol hill. there have been no temperature checks, as best we can tell, that was not added and mask wearing on capitol hill has been spotty, at best. republican senators have been meeting since they came back into session a few weeks ago in hart 216. it will be familiar to our viewers who watched the james comey hearings. one of the biggest hearing rooms on the senate side. they did that to allow for more social distancing. it's as if the fact the president is coming here, without at least -- again, with any notice to anyone covering it or anyone else including senators participating in it, taking any of the precautions we're all taking and a reminder, in washington, d.c., you can't go to lunch at a restaurant, but the president is coming here and going to lunch in this hearing room with all these senators. his security detail, staffs and so forth. that may very well be part of the message that he's attempting to deliver here. >> let's go to the hearing

earlier today, garrett, where sort of -- i think the first time members of congress, particularly on the senate side, felt fas if they get to publicl critique and/or recommend ideas for this economic recovery. what have we learned today? >> of the two witnesses it was secretary mnuchin who took most of the critiques. he was treated by democrats as something of a hostile witness. and federal reserve chairman powell got the suggestions. got a lot of democrats, essentially, prodding powell to get him to sign on to various policy proposals or to expand upon remarks made last week suggesting that more -- some kind of fiscal relief would be necessary from congress going forward. he was pretty careful not to endorse any specific policy, leaving that to the senators themselves. mnuchin got some rough questioning, though. several democratic senators wanted to make a point of essentially blistering the treasury secretary for the handling of ppp loans and the

larger $500 billion fund at his disposal as well. >> well, the lack of internal conversations sometimes means you're going to get -- sometimes you wonder, should there be more openness between the administration and rank and file democrats. maybe public events like this wouldn't be so hard for them. garrett haake with our report kicking us off from capitol hill. thank you, sir. katy, over to you. just last hour, vice president pence told fox news he is not taking hydroxychloroquine and this follows the president's revelation -- president trump, that he is taking the anti-malarial drug as a preventative measure. >> the frontline workers, many, many are taking it. i happen to be taking it. i happen to be taking it. >> hydroxychloroquine? >> i'm taking it. hydroxychloroquine. >> when? >> right now, yeah. a couple of weeks ago i started taking it. >> why, sir? >> because i think it's good. i've heard a lot of good

stories. if it's not good, i'll tell you right. i'm not going to get hurt by it. >> today, fda commissioner stephen hahn responded saying the question to take any drug is ultimately a decision between a patient and their doctor. hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine are already fda approved for treating malaria, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. joining us is nbc medical contributor dr. kavita patel from the brookings institution and a former senior aides on health policy in the obama white house. let's be clear. the fda advised against using this to treat coronavirus unless you were in a clinical trial at a hospital and under very strict supervision. but i want to be clear about the negative effects of this drug and the positive effects of this drug and where the president's taking it falls into that category. he says he is doing it for preventative measures. are there any studies out there,

doctor, that show that this drug can prevent catching coronavirus? >> no, katy. as of today, there are no studies that illustrate that taking this medication to prevent coronavirus or even to be frank, even in mild cases of coronavirus, that this could have a significant benefit. in fact, quite the opposite. we now have mounting evidence that taking this drug can actually cause increased fatality. and that's largely linked to a cardiac arrhythmia, an electrical disturbance of the heart. there are, as the president mentioned, there are health care frontline workers taking this drug but they're doing it as part of clinical trials to see if, as a physician or a therapist or a nurse, that taking this under a trial supervision could actually prevent exposure that a health care worker might have. i would put health care workers at some of the highest risk of

exposure. so the president doesn't meet that criteria. he's not a health care worker and certainly doesn't meet any of the criteria of the clinical st studies out there to take this drug. >> let me put the president's latest numbers in terms of his health on this screen. 73 years old. 6'3", weight, 243 pounds. resting heart rate, 70 beats per minute, 118/80 blood pressure. nonclinical coronary atherrosclerosis and he's taking a statin drug to lower cle eer cholesterol. under what circumstances can you see a doctor prescribing this to someone with those stats? >> sure. and certainly you flagged a couple of important statistics. age, weight, background of any sort of risk factors for coronary artery disease which is what a statin drug indicates. and honestly, i can't think of a

single doctor who, under those circumstances, along with the current conditions of taking it to prevent coronavirus, that would do that under responsible medicine. having said that, there had been a spike, even after the president made a first comment about hydroxychloroquine. there was about a 50-fold spike in prescription for hydroxychloroquine. it's very clear we have the science telling us one thing and then our country's leaders saying another and it's having an influence on americans, including prescribers. >> doctor, i want to bring in chuck. he's got a question. >> dr. patel, what is your line on when a patient asks for a prescription drug? it's interesting to see the fda's response that at the end of the day, this is an approved drug for these three things. ultimately this is between a doctor and the patient. this is no ordinary patient, right? it's the president of the united

states. when you have felt pressure to prescribe something from a patient and you're not convinced of the science, i have got to think that's a tough situation for any medical doctor. >> i'm a primary care physician. so i actually have been in this situation in many, many circumstances, largely after the president made that first announcement, and here's exactly what i say. this is a drug that's been around for decades for certain things. malaria, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus. this is not something that's ever been shown to be helpful in coronavirus. i also have a frank discussion about the anxiety they are feeling, chuck, because the reason they're asking for it is because we're all looking for some hope. and what i remind them is that this has a large side effect profile that is actually death. i mean, that's -- and then i try just to make it a little more personal and say, if it were me, my family, or my loved ones, i

would not take this risk. that helps to defuse it a little bit. >> i think this is just another example of that ongoing battle between the president and experts. he hears anecdotal evidence and he wants to go with what he's hearing out there from people over what the people who are trained in the medical field or trained in research have to say counter to that. dr. patel, thank you very much for joining us. chuck, over to you. let's move to brazil. it is the world's fastest growing coronavirus hot spot and they have a lot of interesting, similar situations politically as we do. the country has the third highest number of cases in the world, passing the uk with more than 250,000 people infected. as cases overwhelm hospitals, the mayor of sao paulo says the health system could soon collapse. bill neely joins us from sao

paolo. the reason there's similarities. there's a disconnect between the national government and what mayors and their versions of governors are seeing on the ground. >> you're absolutely right, chuck. i think the divide is even bigger. here you've got a president, president bolsonaro who, remember, was elected as an anti-establishment candidate with anti-establishment rhetoric. he's even more of a covid-19 denier than president trump. and he's been doing everything he can right from the beginning to play down the virus. he's against testing, against social distancing. we saw him just on sunday at a rally with his supporters hugging people. he did wear a mask which for bolsonaro say huge leap forward. but he wants brazilians to get back to work. he doesn't want the lockdown. he doesn't like the lockdown and he's been in huge conflict with the governors here.

the governor of sao paulo who, in fact, i'm going to see in a couple of hours' time says there are two viruses in brazil. one is coronavirus. and the other one is bolsonaro virus because he, just like in the u.s., has been forced along with the other governors to bargain, to scramble for ventilators, for personal protection equipment. there is no agreed, united national strategy to try to stop this spread of the virus and indeed brazil has lost three health ministers in as many months. two of them forced out by the president they just didn't like their ideas about social distancing. so, yes, big problems here, chuck. >> bill neely, one quick follow-up. that's amazing. three health ministers in three months. that's extraordinary on that front. says a lot. the rest of south america, how concerned are they that basically the country that borders more -- basically

everybody is this erratic? >> it's interesting how this has come in global waves. it was china and south korea and the epicenter was europe. then it's shifted to the united states. now if you look at the top ten countries for infections, brazil is number three. but you've also got mexico, chile and peru. so it isn't just, you know, a north american problem. this is beginning to sweep through south america and experts here are fearful that brazil could end up with anywhere between 80,000 and 100,000 deaths by the end of the summer. it's pretty serious. >> bill neely with a grim report from sao paulo. thanks very much. katy, over to you. coming up -- it is primary day in oregon. much of the state is voting by mail, but not everyone. what election officials are doing to protect voters and poll

workers. plus, is the coronavirus pandemic causing older voters to grow wary of president trump? he won those voters big in 2016. steve kornacki will walk us through the numbers after a really quick break. you're watching msnbc. and get . so you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one. for small prices, you can build big dreams. spend less, get way more. shop everything home at wayfair today. confident financial plans, calming financial plans, complete financial plans. they're all possible with a cfp® professional. find yours at letsmakeaplan.org.

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some breaking election news. a federal court ruling says new york's democratic presidential primary must be held five weeks from today. the state had canceled the primary due to coronavirus

safety risks for thousands of poll workers and hundreds of thousands of voters. but the 2nd circuit court of appeals upheld a lower court ruling that there is enough time before the election to ensure measures to carry it out safely. meanwhile, oregon holds its primary election today. while many are voting by mail, the state is taking additional steps to keep people safe. msnbc correspondent steve patterson is live at a polling location in portland, oregon. so, steve, what are you seeing there today? >> katy, many changes to cover the fact that covid is impacted so many communities. this is multinomah county, the elections board here. a lot of the changes start here. they had to bring in so many temporary workers. a lot of them were laid off from libraries and different county buildings because they wanted to bring in a workforce that wasn't 65-plus. a lot of election workers are more experienced, a lot older,

have been doing elections for a while. so they're dealing with a temporary workforce that has less experience and they brought in less workers this year to space them out better to keep with social distancing. if you notice down here below my feet, you see these green dots. this is normally where people may be standing if they were in line to drop off their ballots. this is a mail-in state but, of course, they predict about 40% of the votes come in, in the last two days. a lot of people come in to drop off. as you see, i mean, it's pretty empty here. usually we try to find the biggest, fullest polling place we can to talk to as many people as possible. this speaks to how well they're doing. they got out the word early. send in your mail-in ballots. they also attached a new thing this year for the first time ever. prepaid postage on ballots. as soon as you get your envelope, send it on in. a lot of people did that. in speaking to the county elections here, they say they got most of their ballots back, or a large amount back almost

right away. so the last sort of people coming in today is where they'll have that big bottleneck of people less experienced trying to sort through the ballots. so it may take a little bit longer on the back end, but overall, they're happy with how the voter turnout has responded so far. polls close at 8:00 and they expect almost 50% to 60% of the votes to be tallied almost right away. it's those back end, the delay on that moving forward that they're a little bit worried about. but they've had people pretty solidly checking the ballots. it's something they can be doing for a week since those mail-ins came in. hopefully they can get everything together. looking at the operation in here, some of the people looking at us. a camera phone in there. hi there. you can see the masks on. gloves on when handling ballots keeping a social distance, giving us the thumbs up here, but they're ready to go. back to you, katy. >> smile, you're on candid camera. steve patterson, thank you. chuck, over to you. >> should be worth noting there

really is only one big race perhaps driving some turnout in oregon. and it's really a one competitive congressional primary with a retiring member. the presidential campaigns are trying to figure out how the pandemic will impact the general election. one key voting bloc is elderly voters who are particularly sussepsu susceptible to the coronavirus. where does the president stand with these voters in florida? let's bring in steve kornacki. the senior vote is one that is interesting. it's sort of lagging indicators of where our politics was like two generations ago at times or whatever it is. but when i first got started, the senior vote was all roosevelt, you know, roosevelt era folks and it was a very democratic leaning group. then it became swing. then it was republican leaning. are we about to see another shift? >> yeah, might be back to the future here, chuck. that's what some of the polling

right now is suggesting to us. take a look here. the exit poll from 2016, trump versus hillary clinton. this is specifically senior citizens. this is 65-plus. there was a clear majority for trump. a seven-point advantage over hillary clinton. this is a big group of voters, too. this is a big reason donald trump was able to get those -- get past that 270 electoral vote count. this was 2016. if you look at the big brand name national polls that have come out in the last month and look at the same group of voters, 65-plus, how are they saying they'll vote right now? basically it's a complete reversal. biden at 52% and trump at 44%. we've been seeing this. it's not just one or two polls now. that caught our attention initially. this is being replicated in a lot of polls. at this point you're seeing biden with a steady advantage in the senior citizen category over donald trump. big reversal there. again, this extends not just to the presidential race. this is trump's handling of the coronavirus. does that have something to do with this? obviously, senior citizens impa

that. it's 47% approval rating on trump for handling that among senior citizens. and then you mention florida here. you don't have a 65-plus in the most recent florida poll. they broke it down 45-plus. but trump did well in florida, 45-plus in 2016. here he's in a tie with joe biden. a lot of senior citizens in that group. again, overall in florida, this is the fox news poll, biden leading. so trump not getting the bang he usually gets from older voters. biden able to get younger voters. it looks like potentially in florida, too. >> it's fascinating. and it is a voter group, you know, joe biden, everybody has been talking about the young voters. his young voter problem is young voter, but if he makes it up by overperforming among older voters, some may forget the younger voter issue. katy, one wonders if older

voters have been paying attention to the conversation among some, i think the lieutenant governor of texas. you have had others who are saying, you know, hey, it's -- you know, we've got to open up the economy. we know we have an older generation at risk but, boy, we've got to be warriors here. i wonder if many seniors are wondering if they're being a lit overlooked by some of the elected officials and some of the rhetoric. >> and 65, honestly, today, it's not that old. my mother is around that age and she doesn't feel old to me at all. and she says she doesn't want to be the sacrificial lamb as she's being, you know, in this current crisis. another interesting category of people that came out big for trump in 2016 that might not come out for him again are the haters. the people who didn't like either trump or clinton. they broke sharply for trump in 2016. there's a recent monmouth poll that showed they'll break

sharply potentially for joe biden. he was leading the haters group by 40%. and that was a pretty significant factor. we're going to get into all of that, of course, in the coming weeks and months because 2020 is here and november is fast approaching. coming up in this show, new details related to the ahmaud arbery case. video surfaced of an incident a few years ago involving arbery and georgia police. we'll have the latest after the break. you're watching msnbc. i just love hitting the open road and telling people

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new video has surfaced of ahmaud arbery, the young black man shot to death in georgia. the video obtained by nbc news through an open records request shows a different altercation involving arbery from 2017. we don't know the full context of the video, but it does show police questioning arbery and then attempting to tase him. nbc's blayne alexander has been tracking this story for weeks and has the latest. a warning, though, some may find the video distressing. >> get your hands out of your pocket. >> reporter: overnight, new police body cam video shows an altercation between ahmaud arbery and two police officers back in 2017. in the video obtained by an open records request, an officer patrolling the area questions arbery about why he was sitting alone in his car in a park telling him that he was in an area known for drug activity. the incident quickly escalates

when arbery asks the officer why he's being questioned. >> turn around and put your hands on the car. >> why? >> turn around and put your hands on the car. >> i'm checking for weapons. >> you got no reason to check me. >> i'm not searching you. i'm checking you for weapons. >> you have any warrants? you're coming up on me and making me nervous, okay. >> you bothering me for nothing. i work at blue beacon. >> where is that? >> off exit 29 man. >> okay. listen -- >> i'm not here to ruin your day. i'm here to look for any kind of criminal activity. that's all -- >> criminal activity? i'm in a park. i work. >> reporter: when a second officer arrives he tries to use a taser on arbery but the device appears to malfunction. >> hands out of your pocket. >> down. warning, down. >> stay on the ground. stay on the ground, okay? >> reporter: the officers eventually let arbery go with no arrest or citation. arbery was fatally shot in february after being pursued by

gregory and trf travis mcmichae father and son. arbery was unarmed and his family says the 25-year-old was just out for a jog. according to the police report, gregory mcmichael told officers he and son travis grabbed their guns and followed arbery because they thought he was a burglary suspect. mcmichael told police travis fired when arbery violently attacked and the two started fighting over the shotgun. earlier this month, videos were released showing the moments just before arbery's encounter with the mcmichaels where he's seen walking into a construction site and looking around. now, through his attorney, the owner of that property shared these videos with nbc news showing multiple people, including children, walking through that same property over the course of several months. >> there's no record of the community or law enforcement targeting any of the other suspects specifically any of the white trespassers on that property, but when a black male suspect entered the property, suddenly, he was criminalized to

the point that deadly force was used to capture him. >> blayne alexander, thank you for that reporting. nbc news has reached out to the glynn county police department for a statement on the new video, but we have not yet heard back. chuck? >> thank you, katy. coming up, live in a town in germany that's been forced to impose a new round of lockdowns after it saw a spike in coronavirus infections. plus, how president trump's messaging around this pandemic, including announcing he's now taking hydroxychloroquine measures up to his predecessors during times of global crisis. you're watching msnbc. and longer on pain than tylenol. when pain happens, aleve it. all day strong.

germany, considered one of the models for containing the spread of coronavirus, is facing a second wave of outbreaks in some regions as the country continues to do its version of a phased reopening. two hard-hit regions puttingy in country's so-called emergency brake system to the test meant to trigger new lockdowns if there's a spike in infections. nbc's carl nasman joins us from greitz, germany. okay. so they kicked in the emergency brake. what does that look like, carl? >> i'm standing in one of those epicenters that you mentioned. the new coronavirus hot spots popping up. this is greiz, the center of germany and, you know, you walk

along the streets. it doesn't look a whole lot different but even though germany, considered a success story overall, that success is being tested by regions like this one. the numbers actually ten times higher than the national average in terms of new daily infections. so high that actually the german military, chuck, was called in to help with a medical response here testing thousands of people in the hospitals and nursing homes in the region. the first big test, the first time the emergency break has been triggered here in germany. that's in place in case a region were to spike in terms of infections. new lockdown restrictions put into place. restaurants supposed to open last week, that's being delayed by two more weeks. visitations in hospitals canceled. what about life under this new lockdown? i spoke with the head of the german military response here. here's what he told me. >> my feeling is the people understand quite well that if

you have a hot spot of this epidemic situation, then you have of course, other rules, then perhaps 50, 60 or 100 kilometers away where there are no new cases. >> of course, this is something that the united states and other countries will be having to deal with. how do you continue to open up a state or country when you still have these hot spots to deal with? how do you get the people that live there to buy into new lockdowns, even as everyone is enjoying their new freedoms. chuck, katy? >> carl, thank you. katy, over to you. >> chuck, here in the united states, president trump's mixed messaging is still creating confusion. the president said he's self-medicating with hydroxychloroquine, contradicting advice from medical experts working in his own administration. he also threatened to cut off funding to the world health organization if the group does not, quote, commit to substantial improvements in the

next 30 days. so to give us a bit of perspective on this, let's bring in nbc news presidential historian michael beschloss. it's great to see you. i was just trying to figure out how woodrow wilson was leading in 1918 during the spanish flu. and in my reading, i found out that he himself came down with the flu, according to this "washington post" report. is there any historical precedent for a president saying, hey, i'm going to take this drug. what do you have to lose? >> nothing like that in american history. not even close where a president says that he's taking a drug like hydroxychloroquine and, you know, he would probably argue that he's not saying to people that they should get it, although that's the suggestion he's making by asking what he would have to lose. the problem is that there are an awful lot of scared and suffering people in this country who will do something that the

president suggests. they might think this is something they should do. if it goes bad with him, he's got great medical support. a lot of the people in the country do not. >> how have past presidents wielded their outsized influence during times of crisis. >> usually in a positive way. you were talking about woodrow wilson. that's the negative example for presidents at the time of a pandemic. 670,000 americans died because of the influenza pandemic of 1918, 1919. and it was not 1917 as president trump for some reasons keeps on saying. and wilson -- it was wartime. he was worried about becoming unpopular himself. he did not tell americans how to protect themselves. he never gave a single speech on this terrible calamity that was afflicting so many americans. the better choice is someone like fdr during world war ii or jfk during the cold war who were

saying, if there's an attack, look at civil defense. in kennedy's case, kennedy said build fallout shelters, get food and water and first aid kits. may not have worked, but they knew what donald trump does not seem to know which is the most fundamental job of an american president is to keep every american safe. >> michael, you know, there's a lot of conversation in some corners of the internet about the founding fathers wouldn't have done this or the founding fathers wouldn't have done that. >> right. >> my understanding is the founders were very concerned about public health and very concerned about it to the point, i guess -- what would the -- what do you sense the balance that they would be advising be struck? >> they would be advising that the government should take every measure to impose a quarantine, if necessary. in philadelphia, as i think you

know, chuck, at the time the constitution was written, there would be waves of yellow fever that would basically shut down the city and everyone would leave so that there would be no spread. they didn't have very much doubt about that, and so if you have the idea that america should have limited government, absolutely, but one of the most fundamental purposes of limited government is to make sure people don't get sick and they're not in danger. one of the purposes of government is to orchestrate americans and the activities of government and the private sector to make sure there are no needless deaths. >> and i guess one quick follow-up is, what are some examples where -- has there ever been an example where there's concern the president's behavior, if copied, would do damage to the public? >> oftentimes presidents have used nostroms. andrew jackson caused mercury.

we now know that leads to really bad mercury poisoning, not something you want a president doing. john kennedy had back problems. he was concealing the fact he had addison's disease. he was taking all sorts of drugs and medicines. oftentimes from different doctors that intersected with one another. americans didn't know about that, but it was a dangerous thing for him to do. richard nixon is said to have taken a drug called dilantin, an anti-seize your medicine. he felt it calmed him. that was not known at the time if americans had known it, a lot of people would have been concerned because they would have worried what nixon would do under its influence, but i guarantee you, a lot of nixon supporters would have said, let's go buy some dilantin, if we can. >> so interesting. michael beschloss, thanks for coming on and giving us some historical perspective. always good to have in times like these. coming up -- >> thanks so much. >> measures the nfl is exploring

to help stop the spread of the coronavirus and keep players safe when football starts up again. plus, the world's largest high school science fair is under way just not quite as planned. how it looks different. that's right after this quick break. you're watching msnbc. ld ...of people ...adventurous people... and survivors. it was interesting to think about their lives... their successes... and...their hardships. i think that's part of what i want my kids to know. they come from people who... were brave. and took risks. big risks. no pressure. [short laugh] bring your family history to life, like never before. get started for free at ancestry.com i but what i do count on...ts anis boost high protein...rs, and now, there's boost mobility... ...with key nutrients to help support... joints, muscles, and bones. try boost mobility, with added collagen.

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as the u.s. waits for professional sports to return, the nfl is testing out a new option. the league is teaming up with oakley to try to develop new face masks for helmets that may contain either surgical material or n95 coverings to protect its players from the coronavirus when they return to the field. the nfl recently released a schedule with plans to return in september. it is unclear, though, if that will actually happen. chuck, i'm wondering, if the -- is it going to be like maybe a transparent brick covering over the entire helmet? would that work? goggles underneath the helmet, i

feel like would make it hard to see, a screen would make it hard to see. >> oh, i think you could make the face mask a little more solid and visit feel like ventilator. i mean, i will say this. it's going to feel a little bit like "star wars." i think there's going to be this idea that you have a helmet with a breathing apparatus in some form and it may, you know -- maybe we'll still be able to see their eyes through vision. so maybe it's combination mandalorian meets a face mask or something like that. >> with the darth vader voice. >> you know who they could get to figure this out? i've got an idea of who could figure this out. there's a whole bunch of students at a science fair, who they'll be figuring this out. there's never been a stronger need for fact-based information backed by science than right now. but even scientists have to make adjustments. even future scientists. the international science and engineering fair underway and it's the first time the event

will be held virtually in its 70-year history. the organization, society for science, posting this video featuring the 2020 finalists dancing from around the world. a bit of much-needed light in our current raeeality. joining me now is the person behind the event, maya omara, president and ceo behind the organization, science for the public. so first let's start with, give me the participation rate this year of what kind of participation have you had and what's it going to look like for the individuals participating? >> first of all, thank you so much for having me. it is -- it's been extraordinary. we were planning to have the regeneron international science and engineering fair, but we had to pivot very quickly when we had to cancel the in-person fair. we created a virtual fair. and we have over 13,000 participants this week. and it keeps growing. it's free, but we have over

1,255 finalists showcasing 1,003 projects from 55 countries, regions, and territories. and we take great pride in the fact that 48% of the finalists are young women. 52% are young men. >> what would you say -- has there been one subject area within the sciences that has been the most prominent -- the most prominently featured, or is it really an array? >> it's an array. they compete over 21 judging categories. and that, you know, ranges from computational biology to robo c robotics and intelligent machines to translational medical sciences. it's a whole range from environmental science. these young people are the next generation of innovators. and they're going to be on the

front lines of solving the world's most intractable problems. and i feel very, very hopeful of what this generation is going to do for us. >> yeah. very quickly, is it college scholarship? what's the -- is there prizes that are associated with success in this fair? >> well, for the past 70 years, it has. this year, it is just a showcase, because many fairs had to be canceled. so we decided just to make it a showcase, but next year we're going to be back and we'll provide nearly $5 million in awards and scholarships. >> and we hope to see more and more of that participation in the coming years. maya omara, thank you for coming on and telling us about this. and we look forward to virtually seeing these amazing scientists in the future. thanks very much. katy, over to you.

>> yes, we do. and coming up in our next hour, we'll be joined by one of the doctors leading a trial to determine if hydroxychloroquine, the malarial drug that the president says he's now taking to fend off the coronavirus, is actually effective. you're watching msnbc. ve you're watching msnbc. wayfair has way more ways to renovate your home, from inspiration to installation. like way more vanities perfect for you. nice. way more unique fixtures and tiles. pairing. ♪ nice. way more top brands in sinks and faucets. way more ways to rule your renovation. nice! on any budget, with free shipping. wayfair. way more than furniture.

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good afternoon. i'm chuck todd. it's 11:00 a.m. out west, 2:00

p.m. here in the east. still a good morning to my friends in the west. here are the facts as we know them h hour. mike pence said he was not taking hydroxychloroquine, following the announcement by president trump that he is taking it as a prevent i have measure against coronavirus. the president is currently on capitol hill this afternoon for a lunch meeting with senate republicans. his visit, somewhat of a surprise, comes as the house and senate debate the next round of coronavirus relief. the 152nd belmont stakes will now be run on june 20th without an audience and before the kentucky derby. it will be the first time the belmont ends up kicking off the triple koun. both the kentucky derby and preakness stakes were moved to the fall due to the pandemic. and while other businesses are closed or struggling, walmart is reporting a surge in sales during the pandemic. sales are up a whopping 74% for the big box giant. they were number one in the fortune 500 list, and that

earnings report gives them more reinforcement for that number one ranking. joining me now, my co-anchor for the hour, katy tur. >> cand chuck, let's go through the numbers. by memorial day weekend, nearly every state in the united states will have lifted restrictions by some degree. though according to data, only 17 states have seen a downward trend in new infections in the past week. six of the country's most pop list states continue to see new cases, including illinois, new jersey, california, new york, massachusetts, and texas. and that's due in part to expanded testing, because with more testing comes more confirmed cases. and chuck, i think we're just about to enter into the greatest variable we've seen so far in this crisis. the weather is warming all around the country. and people are not going to want to stay inside. so we're going to have a realtime test of whether being socially distant while outside,

taking precautions while outside is still enough to mitigate the danger of this virus. and there are a lot of experts out there who point to the climbing infection rate, even with people that are staying inside, and saying, hey, listen, if we get people outside, if we do -- if we eat outside, if we have meetings outside, if we exercise outside, as long as we maintain the distance, it might be better overall for the spread of this virus, to tamp down on it. but we're going to find out. >> we are. look, memorial day weekend, you're going to have more people probably driving more than 100 miles away from home than you've had in some time, right? and all of that increased amount of that kind of travel outside of your normal location that we've been all huddling in, it's going to be an interesting test. my guess is, somewhere between the fourth of july, we'll have

an idea of whether this -- what kind of impact memorial day weekend had on the virus itself. but let's focus on what's going on here in washington right now, where president trump is on capitol hill this afternoon. he's there to meet with republican senators over lunch. the visit comes with the house and senate at odds over the next round of coronavirus relief and it comes on the same day that the treasury secretary and the federal reserve chairman were testifying before the senate banking committee. joining us now from the white house is nbc news correspondent, carol lee. and carol, do we have an idea of what the president's agenda is with senate republicans? is this a pep talk? is this to see if they're going to be on the -- you know, get on the same page on what a relief package looks like? is this all coronavirus-related? >> i think it's -- >> actually it, looks like -- i'm going to halt you there, carol, because the president's speaking right now on capitol hill. >> -- in terms of the country, in terms of the election that's

coming up, we're doing very well in every way. do you have any questions? >> last night, nancy -- speaker of the house, nancy pelosi, called you morbidly obese. i want to know what you had to say in response -- >> i don't respond to her, i think she's a waste of time. >> mr. president, what are your priorities. what do you tell the -- >> we have a lot of priorities. the priority we have is a priority for the country and bringing it back. i use the compression, transition to greatness. we're going to have a really good third quarter. it's already happening. you see what's going on. we're opening up. the states are opening up. numbers are going down, as they open. look at georgia, look at florida, look at others. we have states that are opening up and the numbers are going down, but it's a transition to greatness. it's the third quarter that it's going into the fourth quarter. i think the fourth quarter is going to be really good, but i think above all, next year you'll have a tremendous year. with all of that being said, to lose lives over this that should have been stopped by china, it should have been stopped by

china is terrible. that a thing like this could have happened to the world, long beyond us, you're going to lose millions of people -- we're talking about the world. the whole world is being affected by this. it's a terrible, terrible thing. >> mr. president, what's your timeline -- >> the fda warned that hydroxychloroquine could cause serious side effects, especially with -- >> yeah, yeah. >> why is it okay for you to promote the use of this drug when you're not a doctor -- >> well, i've worked with doctors. and if you look at the one survey, the only bad survey, they were giving it to people that were in var bery bad shape. they were very old, almost dead. it was a trump enemy statement. now, if you look at some of the reports that came out from italy, that came out from france, that came out from other -- a lot of our front line workers take it, because it possibly -- and i think it does, but, you know, people are going to have to make up their own

mind. plus, it doesn't hurt people. it's been out on the market for 60 or 65 years for malaria, lupus and other things. i think it gives you an additional level of safety, but you can ask many doctors who are in favor of it. many front line workers won't go there unless they have the hydroxy. so, again, this is an individual decision to make. but it's had a great representatireputation. and if it was somebody else other than me, people would say, gee, isn't that smart? but we're working on a lot of other things. i'll tell you what, the great medical companies that we have, if you're looking at what they're doing therapeutically, cure wise, and the vaccine itself, and the vaccine, i think, is less important than some of the things that they're working on. they're working on a cure. and we have more than one doing it. and very advanced. they're working on therapeutics. and they're working on vaccines. there's been tremendous -- there's been tremendous -- really, tremendous progress made. >> president trump, have you talked to senators much about the reports that you would like to see, the fisa, so americans

aren't surveilled? >> yeah, they have a lot of views on fisa. i didn't get involved. i purposefully said to mitch, you go do what you want. we'll take a look. we're going to take a look at fisa. but nobody has been abused by fisa like the president of the united states. because what the democrats did and the dirty cops -- they're dirty cops. the fbi people are great. i bet you go in there, they like donald trump. but the top of the fbi -- they were dirty cops. they were crooked. bad people. and nobody has been abused more than trump. but you look at general flynn, you look at so many others, not just us. take a look at so many others. look at what they've done, how they've abused fisa. so i'm going to be studying it very much. but the fisa process has gone awry. it was used by very dishonest people. it was used illegally. and frankly, the judges on the fisa court should do something about it. and maybe they will. >> mr. president -- >> senators have responded on

the flynn case and the origin of the -- >> on the swing states, you said? >> on the flynn case? >> oh, general flynn is a man of great respect. i was with general millie, the general of the joint heads of staff. i said, do you know general flynn? i said, yes, i've known him for 25 years. he's a fine man and a great soldier. general flynn was treated horribly. general flynn was treated illegally. these people, they broke the law. what they've done to general flynn should never happen. what they've done to the presidency and what they've done to this country can never be allowed to happen again to our country. and despite all of that has been done, everything that's been done, we've had one of the greatest presidencies ever ever -- i don't think anybody -- mitch, i think we can say it with assurety, nobody has accomplished what we've accomplished in a relatively short period of time, a three-year period of time. nobody has been able to do it. when you look at rebuilding our military, regulations at a level

that nobody's come close to, we've cut regulations, the biggest tax decrease in history. you look at all of the things that we've done, all of the things that we've done on health care, with the individual mandate, with pre-existing conditions, nobody has done anywhere close to what we've done. but despite that, if you look, despite an illegal witch hunt, and that's what it was. it was a hoax, it was that witch hunt. the russian thing was a made-up, fabricated story. just like they went to congresswoman kels congresswoman kelsey gabbard. i don't know her at all. they said, you're a russian agent. i don't know her. but they said she's a russian agent. then jill stein, they said she's a russian agent. i don't know her at all, i know she's not a russian agent. these people are sick. pelosi is a sick woman. she's got a lot of problems, a lot of mental problems. we're dealing with people that have to get their act together for the good of the country.

okay, thank you very much. >> the president answering a few questions there. i don't think, katy, we really have a good sense of actually what was discussed at the senate meeting, to be honest. it didn't sound like -- in fact win thought some of the questions by the press corps there, at least some of the questions that the president chose to answer were questions that the president preferred to answer, shall we say. and turn it into -- and go in a certain direction. anyway, that was not the most helpful q&a. >> well, listen, i think put his words aside right now and look at his actions just then. he's not wearing a mask. i know he doesn't want to wear a mask. there was very little social distancing. you could see between him and those around him, walking up to the podium, it seemed like a couple of senators were involved there. some senators not wearing masks. according to our capitol hill reporters, people were not -- their temperatures were not taken before they went into this

meeting with the president. so this is a heightened exposure for him, and there's also news, this was just tweeted by our colleague, jeff bennett, that the ford plant that the president is going to be visiting in the coming days is going to require him to wear a mask. they say it's their policy, the ip ipsalani plant to wear a mask at that ford plant. i think it will be interesting to see whether he abides by those rules or if something else happens altogether. but again, this is a president of the united states. and his actions matter even more than his words, especially in a scenario like this. and what he's doing is he's showing the american public that he doesn't think that there's a risk. he's showing the american public that he doesn't think you should have to wear masks. he's showing the american public that he doesn't necessarily think that social distancing is all that important. and that is a -- that's a dangerous message to send in the middle of a pandemic that has so far killed more than 90,000 people.

90,000 americans. >> you know, katy, he would probably concur with 90% of what you said. i mean, that is exactly -- in his belief, i think he -- that is, we keep hearing this. that he's afraid that if he wears a mask, it will somehow make it seem as if he's not focused on the economic recovery and that that will slow down the economy from coming back. i mean, he's got some built-in beliefs here that not everybody follow the logic that he follows. but that is the logic hole -- the rabbit hole that he goes down in justifying some of his public pictures, if you will, when it comes to this virus. still with us, by the way, katy, at the white house, is our own carol lee. and carol, let's go back to the question i asked you, because i don't really feel like we got a good sense from that q&a of what really happened in there. does the president have much of a position on what this relief package looks like next? i mean, he's actually -- he and mnuchin have been somewhat mute about this, other than you hear,

well, he does think there has to be some aid to states. he's for liability. he's still for his payrolled tax cut that nobody quite understands how that would work in this package. but he's been relatively quiet about this deal. >> yeah, chuck, you're right. and if you talk to anyone in the white house, you'll hear from them that the message is essentially, you know, let's wait and see. no one's in a huge rush to try to do anything. there is a little spending fatigue, i think, among some republicans and certainly among some people who are advising the president. the consistent things we've heard from the president is that he wants this payroll tax cut, but as you know, that's a real tough sell on capitol hill. we heard from kevin hassett, one of the president's economic advisers a little while ago, saying that they're essentially waiting and seeing. seeing how the recovery or the reopenings start to happen, how the economy picks up, whether there's a new outbreak. essentially, he said, they're looking at two potential paths.

so plan for if the virus, if we get past it more quickly or if it hangs around for a little bit longer. but the things that we've heard from the white house about what they want are, like i said, the payroll tax cut. they're looking at things like extending tax day, filing decli deadlines to maybe december or september, and the liability waiver. that's another tough one, because then you get into states issues and it's not clear exactly how they would do that. and we know from our own reporting that that's currently still very much under debate here. so, it's all -- there's definitely a pump the brakes after the first few phases of this. and there's not a real desire to get out and try to do something really quickly. at least, that's not the posture that you're seeing here at the white house. >> yeah, i wonder what the friday unemployment numbers are going to do to them. i believe it's this friday that we get our -- or maybe it's the friday after that, whether that serves as a sense of urgency or not. i've been surprised that last week didn't serve as that

urgency. carol lee at the white house, thank you. katy, over to you. >> thanks, chuck. and chuck, vice president announced today that he is not taking the drug hydroxychloroquine. that follows the revelation from the president, though, that he is taking it. >> the front line workers, many, many are taking it. i happen to be taking it. i happen to be taking it. >> did the white house doctor recommend that you take that? is that why you're -- >> yeah, the white house doctor -- didn't recommend it -- i said, what do you think? he said, yeah, if you would like it. i said, i would like it. a lot of people are taking it. i've taken it for a week and a half here and i'm still here. >> can you explain, though, sir, what is the evidence that it has as a preventative effect. >> here we go, you ready? here's my evidence. i get a lot of positive calls about it. >> the president has repeatedly promoted hydroxychloroquine as a preventative treatment for covid-19. it is still unclear, though, whether it actually is a preventative treatment. joining me now is dr. ana

bernstein, an assistant professor at the nyu grossman school of medicine. she's co-leading a study with the university of washington, looking at whether hydroxychloroquine can prevent coronavirus after exposure. doctor, thank you very much for joining us. how are you conducting this study? >> this is a post-exposure prophylactic study. that means it's for people who have had brief stints of exposure through a close contact, so maybe someone who lives in their home or somebody who has been within six feet of them for an extended period of time, recently. you can think of it a bit like somebody who had a needle stick and the person who had used -- had that needle previously had hiv or hepatitis, they might take hiv or hepatitis drugs, just for a short period of time. and sometimes that can prevent infection altogether. our question is could hydroxychloroquine possibly work in that way for coronavirus? >> what have you found so far?

>> the study is still in early days and right now, we're trying to enroll people who are willing to volunteer to get a 50/50 chance of getting hydroxychloroquine or a placebo. and based on the different rates of infection in people who have had exposure, we'll find out whether there's a difference with hydroxychloroquine. >> so some of the side effects that we are hearing about from other research for hydroxychloroquine is trouble with breathing, speaking, or swallowing, chest discomfort, pain, or tightness, fast, pounding, uneven heartbeat, severe mood or mental changes. feeling that others are watching you or controlling your behavior, can hear your thoughts, or seeing/hearing things that are not there. would the president of the united states be qualified to take part in your study if he were exposed?

>> so anybody who has had a recent exposure could take part in the study, but we would look very carefully to make sure that they don't have medical conditions that might make this drug unsafe, that they aren't taking other drugs that shouldn't be combined with it. and to make sure they're able to safely participate in the study. and that's something critical will hydroxychloroquine, that a doctor should help make sure that a dose is correct and it's safe for that individual. the good news is that this drug is a known entity. it's been fda approved since 1955, so we know a lot about who can safely take it and not take it. rheumatologists prescribe it routinely. so that really helps -- it's a known entity in terms of the side effects, but any potential benefits in terms of coronavirus are not known right now. >> doctor, i want to bring in chuck.

he has a quick question. >> given the fact that it looks like a large portion of covid-19 patients are asymptomatic, that strikes me that it makes this trial even more difficult. >> the great thing about really rigorous science is that we can get at these questions in spite of the challenges. so so far, what we have is observational evidence. where all we know is somebody took the drug and they did or didn't get infected, but we don't know what would have happened otherwise. with a controlled trial, it's like flipping a coin. you can get the drug or a placebo, 50/50, and that helps us get a definitive answer. what's a bit challenging in these types, hydroxychloroquine is becoming a bit polarized, where we have people in the public who believe that it works, so they don't want that 50/50. and we have people in the public who believe that it is unsafe and it doesn't work, so they don't want the 50/50. but for this study, to get an answer quickly, what we hope is that there are people who are

with us, as scientists, who really understand that it's not an answered question and are willing to volunteer. >> doctor, when do you expect to have results? >> it really depends on how quickly we can find people who are with us in the middle. people who are willing to enroll in these studies, so that we can quickly arrive at an answer. right now, we have a study that's going on across the united states with seven different u.s. metro areas recruiting. and unfortunately, enrollment really slowed down when this drug did become such a polarized issue. because it became more difficult to find people who said, i want to contribute to finding the answer. i'm willing to really believe that this is an unanswered question. and so what we hope is that the pendulum -- it's swung a bit, but we hope the pendulum will end up somewhere in the middle, where the public is with us as medical scientists to say, we want to be part of answering this. and i dedeally, we want to answ this by fall, because if there

is this tool that might work, we want to know before that fall pandemic wave hits. we really hope the pendulum will come to the middle and volunteers will start coming to these studies again. >> dr. ana bernstein, doctor, thank you very much for joining us and good luck with your study. quh chuck, over to you. >> what great way for her to put it about what happens when you politicize science. this is what happens when you politicize science. you actually can halt the ability of doing better science. hello! lesson. i hope people grab it. when we return, montana senator jon tester. you're watching msnbc. a senator jon tester you're watching msnbc. but you can still screen for colon cancer. because when caught in early stages, it's more treatable. so, don't wait. cologuard is colon cancer screening done at home. you can request it from home too. ask your prescriber if cologuard is right for you... or learn more about online prescribers at requestcologuard.com. it's for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur.

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earlier today, the treasury secretary and federal reserve chairman appeared before the senate banking committee. steven mnuchin and jay powell were pressed on coronavirus relief for america's businesses and specifically who is getting that money. >> you're saying that the information about who's getting

the dollars and who's getting the money is already posted on your website? >> again, what i've said is every single commitment we've made is listed on the website. >> i look forward to seeing that list, by the way, secretary mnuchin. i'm going to go online and search it, because i'm going to tell you, as much transparency as you've said are with this program, as a senator from montana, as a member of the banking committee, i'm not seeing any of it. >> yoing joining us now is mont democratic senator, jon tester, and senator tester, i think that's the longest i've ever seen your hair, proof that you have also had to delay seeing a barber every now and then. >> yeah, for like two months, yeah, for sure. >> i'm thinking about going buzz, because it may be the only way i know how to cut it, so we'll see. let me start with what you heard

today. one of the questions that a lot of people had is the treasury subsidiary is sitting on a big chunk of money that hasn't been spent yet, and even some of your republican colleagues are concerned that he's being a bit too conservative with lending that money out. what kind of answers did you get on this? >> we didn't get many answers. in fact, secretary mnuchin said that they've put all of this transparency forward on the $2.2 trillion package, and it looked online and there were term sheets, which basically tell you lengths and interest rates, nothing else. and i would like a little more information than that. i would like to know where it's going out to, i would like to know how much has gone out. and not for any other reason, but the fact that the economy is not in very good shape right now and we've appropriated a lot of borrowed money to turn the economy around. and if we don't have some oversight, this money could be wasted. and that's the last thing we need to do at this moment in

time. and so as secretary mnuchin said one thing, i will tell you that the facts do not bear out what he said. that information might be there from his perspective, but it's certainly not there to any sort of level that would give you an explanation of how the money is being spent. >> senator, are you concerned during this attempt at figuring out how to heal this economy that it is going to become this sort of competition tureen industries, competition between businesses. look, on one hand, i get others being offended when they see big brand names saying, what are you doing taking that money. on the other hand, you know, a job -- a job, no matter how superficial it may look to somebody, puts a meal on the table of somebody who really needs it. i fear we're going down an uncomfortable road here if we're not careful. >> well, look, i think the goal here is to get the economy back on track. and big business will play a

role in that. i come from a small business state, that we don't have many big businesses. you're right, a job's a job. but the bottom line is that if the money is only going to the business businesses and not not going to the small businesses, we're making a mistake. and the only way i can hold the administrative branch accountable is if i have access to that information on a timely level. and so far, it hasn't been so good. and with the firing of all the inspector generals and all the changes that are being done there, it does not give me a good feeling about how these dollars are going out. >> senator tester, katy tur here. one of your colleagues brought th this up, and i'm wondering what your position is on it. and that is not just mortgage and rent forbearance, but mortgage and rent relief. there are a lot of people out there that aren't paying their rent right now, haven't paid from april, aren't paying for

may. and it's unclear if they're going to be able to, having lost their job, make up that rent in the future, which is going to put a lot of landlords that are individual landlords, not big landlords in a really difficult position to pay their mortgages. is that something that the senate is going to take up? >> well, i would like to. i think we should take up something that has to do with the pandemic right now, and we're not. senator mcconnell is not allowing anything to come to the floor. and i think there are plenty of things to debate. whether it's that issue that deals with rent and landlords. whether it's energy and how we're going to pay for electricity and sewer and water and those kind of things, or whether it's municipalities getting dollars or municipalities getting dollars or small businesses or large businesses, look, the list so long, katy, you know that. but the bottom line is that we need to debate this stuff on the floor. the senate is supposed to be the greatest deliberative body on

earth. we are a skeleton of our former itself and if we could debate this and have a straight-up debate about where the money needs to go, it would give opportunity for people to give us information so we can take those ideas to the floor and react appropriately. look, the economy is not in good shape. that is not breaking news. how we get this economy back on track is going to be key and the quicker we can communicate and the quicker we can take good ideas from the states, whether they're in government or in the private sector and implement them here in washington, d.c., the better off we're going to b be. >> so republicans and democrats differ on what needs to happen right now. republicans are saying that we need to wait and see what our first few packages of aid, what they do for the economy, let them take effect before we work anymore. that seems to be what mnuchin was arguing today, but democrats and it seems like jerome powell was supporting them, saying we need to pump more money into the

economy. why do you think it's not a good idea to wait and see how this money gets disbursed? >> well, look, i think we need to check to see how the money is disbursed, but we need to know how that money is being disbursed in order to evaluate that and we don't know that information. that's number one. we don't even know how much money is still left out there to spend or to allow people to borrow. so that's one issue. the second issue is that i'm hearing a lot from folks in montana that need additional help and i think it doesn't hurt a thing to take a bill that came over from the house, for example, and take it to the floor of the senate and debate it and change it and make it work for the country. look, chairman powell is correct, in times of economic disaster, you have to pump money into the economy and the key is that we do it in a right way so

it doesn't waste taxpayer dollars. in order to do that, we need to know know how the money that's been appropriated is being spent and talk to the folks on the ground to make sure if there are places we've missed, we can allocate further money or appropriate further money to meet the needs of this country and this economy. >> senator, you represent a state that is having more of an economic crisis than a health crisis, right? every state and region, and that doesn't mean you may not have a health crisis on your hands in six months. we're well aware of the dangers of that. but i imagine it's created a bit of a political challenge for you and for elected leaders in general. you've had to shut down and tighten things up. the economy has taken a hit, and there's a lot of people in montana going, yeah, my pocketbook's taken a hit and everybody's healthy. >> yeah, i will tell you, the governor's done a great job. he's jumped on this early and put some measures forth at the time i thought, wow, but the

truth is, it's paid off. now, he's opening the economy up. he's moving to the second stage here, and i think it's being done in an appropriate way, as they monitor the science behind this virus, which is tough to get our arms around, the economy is starting to open up in montana, and i think it's because the governor took steps early on and was able to move forward with it. and today, opening up. i think the economy in montana is going to get back, as long as people still socially distance and still use good high geygien common sense, i think we'll see the economy come back in montana, probably as quick as anywhere in the country. but it's because steps were taken that were appropriate early on, and steps were taken, starting about two weeks ago to reopen the economy. and i think they're appropriate, too. >> montana senator, jon tester, democrat from montana, and i guess you're using a comb. you have to use a comb every now and then. come on, man! >> yeah, i know. i'm going to have a part here

pretty soon. >> well, welcome to my world, gentlemen. stop complaining about a comb. >> nobody wears the buzz cut than senator tester. >> put it up in rollers. >> look, trust me, many of us are very jealous of your hair style, senator tester. thanks for coming out. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> and coming up, why experts say our response to this pandemic has exposed a dire risk to our national security. plus, just one republican voted for the house's latest coronavirus relief bill. the hero's act. that republican is with us when we're back in 90 seconds. ith us we're back in 90 seconds at leaf blowers. you should be mad your neighbor always wants to hang out. and you should be mad your smart fridge is unnecessarily complicated. make ice. making ice. but you're not mad because you have e*trade which isn't complicated. their tools make trading quicker and simpler so you can take on the markets with confidence.

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experts believe the coronavirus has exposed a vulnerability in western nations to possible biological attacks. the pandemic has revealed difficulties in testing, tracking, and treatment. and now former officials in the u.s. and uk are warning that terrorists may look to take advantage of those vulnerabilities. joining me now with more is nbc

news global correspondent, wilhelm marks. so the idea that we're creating the blueprint for terrorists to follow is a little scary here, wilhelm. >> reporter: yeah, that's absolutely right. and that's one of the challenges, of course, even talking about this subject, chuck. the officials i've spoken to the last few weeks or so on three administrations, both sides of the atlantic, telling me that there are major concerns. not just in terms of stockpiling equipment, not just in terms of vaccine development and testing capacity, but also that actual biodefense architecture developed after the 2001 anthrax attacks known as biowatch, they say they're not to serve a purpose and are desperately in need of an upgrade. i had a chance to the former deputy national security adviser under the george w. bush administration and i asked him what he thought were the long-term implications of this pandemic. >> our homeland security posture and even our counterterrorism approach will be fundamentally

altered by this crisis. the reality is that the outbreak, as we've experienced it, and experienced it directly and nationwide, has, i think, brought home not only the realities of our vulnerabilities, but the potential risk of this kind of a pandemic in a context, genetically modified, that is targeted in ways that are intended to undermine or attack our systems and our health. and i think this crises is exposing our vulnerabilities across the world, in the health system, our ability to prepare, our ability to respond, in a fundamental way. >> reporter: chuck, i'm actually outside mi5. there's a specialized police

unit that houses these dangerous pathog pathogens. the former director of that police unit told me he was most worried that a dedicated insider would be able to walk out of those labs and potentially release harmful pathogens. big concerns, also, about the technology developing around gene editing. the ability of people outside of those environments to develop these kind of weapons. and a massive concern going forward about quite how much this pandemic would be for potential bad actors, chuck. >> look at how it shut down the world economy. and that's what they're looking for, some kind of crazy action like that, no doubt. i get that. wilhelm marks with that report, thank you. >> katy, as if we didn't have more to worry about. and he's right about always worrying about the government labs. remember what happened, who we found out were behind those anthrax attacks back in the day. it turned out to be a disgruntled government employee. so you just don't know.

>> it's something definitely to keep an eye on. and you hope that stricter measures get put in place. chuck, let's go back to the house. it passed another $3 trillion relief package. it includes nearly $1 trillion for state and local governments. another round of direct aid for americans and support for homeowners and renters. but the legislation is not expected to make it out of the senate. joining us now is the only house republican to vote yes on the heroes act, new york congressman, peter king. congressman, always good to see you. why did you break ranks? >> very simply because i wanted a bill on the table in the senate, which included funding for state and local governments and hazardous pay for first responders and nonessential workers. almost everything else that's in the bill i would strongly oppose it in ordinary times, but the fact that mitch mcconnell was refusing to even consider any type of aid to state and local governments at a time when new york state, nasr county, where i live, suffolk county, which i

also represent, they have incredible budget problems and these are directly traceable to the coronavirus. and that's what this is all about. so i -- i'm hoping when i go to the senate, they can strip out a lot of the other issues, but have this funding on the table, because it's absolutely essential and all of this talk of bankruptcy and all of that by mitch mcconnell is just shameful. >> what other issues do you think that they can strip out, in your opinion? >> well, if it were up to me, i would strip out anything involving immigration, absentee ballots, early voting. those are all issues that don't belong in a pandemic legislation. they can be debated in another quarter, but the fact is right now, we should be dealing just with the pandemic, just with what's essential for governments to survive. my district alone, i have over 20,000 positive cases. over a thousand fatalities. on long island, we have, i guess, about 70, almost 80,000

positive cases now. so we are being hit hard by this and there's a tremendous amount of funding required to combat it. both at the hospital level, at the police level, the firefighter level, the health care workers level, the transit worker. just transit workers alone have lost over a hundred human beings as a result of the pandemic. so we need that funding. it's all required. it's the same funding we would give to states like kentucky if they had tornadoes or floods or hurricanes. and that's really all we're asking for. and unfortunately, i didn't want stre to vote for this. if i could have any other vehicle to get the funding on the senate table, i would have done that. but mcconnell wouldn't allow that. i'm not going to stand on ceremony whether it's a nancy pelosi bill or a kevin mccarthy bill. i have lives at stake here in my district. over 20,000 positive cases in my district. there's death all around us. >> congressman, you mentioned not wanting funding for absentee ballots or early voting.

isn't that central, though, to the coronavirus response? what we saw in wisconsin for the primary voting was that the virus, according to officials there, may have spread among those who left their house and waited to vote in person. don't you see that as a way to mitigate the spread of the virus, to have more people voting by mail. >> i think it's a bit of a stretch. i think we knew that separately. let's get the funding done and have that separately. don't try to come in through the back door. there's a lot of things we can tie to -- >> how is that a stretch? >> because the county governments and city governments are going broke. if we want to have a debate on what's necessary, when that would be triggered, let's visit. not as part of this. let's get this over and done with and move on. it should not take that long to debate funding. that should be done in a number of days and then we can move on to other issues. >> but with all due respect, i

mean, states need time to ramp up their ability to -- and they need money in order to ramp up their ability for mail-in ballots. tha that's not something you can do down the line. we are just over a hundred days out before the election, or a little bit more than that. >> yeah, again, i say, we can get the fund doeing done in a mr of days if they want to do it. let's get what should be non-controversial. and that's funding for governments that needed the money to survive, to take care of people who are sick and dying, and to prevent others from getting it. that's what i'm saying. i think that's a very legitimate position. and don't get far down in issues that would slow down that debate. let's get the debate going, that we know the money is needed and we can go on to other issues. >> new york congressman peter king, always good to see you, sir. thanks so much for giving us your time. >> thank you, katy. appreciate it. thank you. coming up, we take you to detroit where public mass is allowed to resume starting today.

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special delivery ♪ well, colleges across the country are trying to figure out what the fall semester is going to look like and whether it will be in person or online or a combination of the two. university of notre dame announced this week that the campus will open up to students in august, but there won't be a fall break and the semester is going end to by thanksgiving. the university's president

joined nbc's savanna guthrie earlier on the "today" show. >> if you can get them here, test them, you know, have a healthy community, and then don't send them away until the semester is over, you're much more likely to have -- to control the spread of any infections. >> does that mean weekend road trips or visits home to the folks are going to be banned during the semester? >> i don't think we've gone that far. >> obviously, among the lingering questions, katy, in the world of colleges is athletics, football is one thing, there's a lot of money behind that. there's a lot of economic, big economic engine and a lot of college towns have to do with that. just probably ask the president of notre dame on there. but it is interesting, katy, that we're starting to see soft an agreed upon idea of what the fall semester could look like. get to classes a little bit earlier. get to fall semester over before

thanksgiving. some even think maybe do it before halloween. create a winter online semester, maybe. that's what howard university is thinking of doing and then have your spring semester just after those tough flu months. >> going to a trimester scenario. i was talking to the chancellor of caal state. he was not yet ready to say definitively that there would be no college sports or college football. that decision is still coming soon, and it is one that is so much more complicated than just canceling the season when you car all of the scholarships involved and everything like that. let's go to another big sports area for colleges, at least. two regions in michigan are set to reopen this friday. bars, restaurants, and stores can open in northern michigan

and the u.p., the upper peninsula. and today in detroit, some churches opened their doors for the first time in two months under new safety guidelines. nbc's cal per ry joins us from one of those churches in downtown detroit. so, cal, you're on this road trip across america. this, i believe, is your first or second stop. and what are you finding? >> reporter: it was really nice, actually, on the street here, because it kind of filled up. even though people were socially distant, they had come for mass and now we're back into that md, day after tomorrow type thing. here's the church, there was a mass at 12:30. and when you walk in, you're immediately greeted by those hand sanitizing stations. you notice there are pews. the regulations are up to 25% capacity can come into the church. that's what we saw today at 12:30. people coming in. they still gave communion. and if there's ever a contact between the priest and the

parishioners, he then goes and hand sanitizes, as well. one of the things that was really important, beyond just the moral boost it gives people to come and worship as a group is, there's a pantry here that the church runs. and folks from around the neighborhood who are in need of supplies, and those can be covid supplies, can come here and get those supplies. and when the church is up and running and more people are able to come to mass, more people give to the pantry, which helps people out. it's one of those good news stories. and even though we're talking about 25% capacity, it's one of those small steps of people getting back to normal. >> small steps are the beginning. cal perry, thank you very much. chuck, a moment ago, i think i was trying to say a big ten state, but then i second guessed myself on michigan and whether that was a big ten state because i'm not really a college sports fan. we didn't have a football team at uc santa barbara.

>> one thing with michigan, you've got the hands. that's how you do it. michigan and wisconsin, you know, you can do the hand thing. that can help sometimes, better than trying to -- >> got it zplp get in trouble over big ten or get that wrong, on that front. >> after the break, some important news that impacts anybody who regularly travels across the u.s./canadian border. across the u.s./canadian border. when it comes to longevity, who has the highest percentage of its vehicles still on the road today? subaru. when it comes to best overall value, who does intellichoice rank number one? subaru. and when it comes to safety, who has more 2020 iihs top safety pick+ winning vehicles? more than toyota, honda, and hyundai-combined? subaru. it's easy to love a car you can trust. it's easy to love a subaru. get 0% apr financing for 63 months on select subaru models now through june 1st.

canada's prime minister, justin trudeau, announced this afternoon that the border between the united states and canada will remain closed to non-essential travel for an additional month. that is until june 21st. the border between the u.s. and canada has been closed since march. and according to johns hopkins university, canada has more than 80,000 confirmed cases of the coronavirus and at least 6,000 deaths. chuck, still a lot less than us.

>> it is. look, the thing though that everybody has to be careful of is don't assume everything. there's a second and a third wave, you know, just read up on the pandemic of the flu back in 19 sl and you'll see that even places that were rescued the first type maybe got walloped the second time. so i think that's one of those cases, everybody should be careful not to spike the football, as they say. katy, i think that does it for our two hours today. we appreciate you tuning in. thank you for trusting us. nicole wallace will pick up our coverage right after this quick break. l pickp uour coverage right after this quick break. woke-up-like-this migraine medicine. the 3:40 mid-shift migraine medicine. introducing ubrelvy™. it's the migraine medicine for anytime, anywhere a migraine attacks without worrying if it's too late or where you happen to be. one dose of ubrelvy™ can quickly stop a migraine in its tracks within two hours. many had pain relief in one hour. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors.

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hi, everyone. i'm nicole wallace. it's 3:00 p.m. in the east, 12:00 noon out west. we hope to have brian williams along momentarily. he's temporarily sidelined by some technological issues, but we're hoping he'll be with us quickly. first, a look at the headlines and facts as we know them this hour. more than 91,000 americans have now died from coronavirus. over 1,200 more than when we came on the air at this very hour yesterday. at this rate, the death toll could reach the 100,000 mark as soon as the end of this week. almost every state has now taken some steps towards reopening, but many of the states that have reopened early either have a steady number of cases or have seen an increasing number of cases. and not the two weeks of decline

that the cdc guidelines called for on reopening. president trump is set to meet with his cabinet this hour after making a quick trip to capitol hill to meet with republican senators. we are watching that for you and we'll bring you any news that is made. meanwhile, vice president mike pence told fox news that unlike his boss, he is not taking the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine, even though he was potentially exposed to coronavirus from an aide who tested positive. yesterday, the president said he is taking the drug, which has not been shown to be effective in treating the virus and could cause complications for people with heart problems. within the past hour, the president spoke about his use of hydroxychloroquine. here is some of what he said up on capitol hill. >> i've worked with doctors. and if you look at the one survey, the only bad survey, they were giving it to people that were in very bad shape. they were very old, almost dead.

it was a trump enemy statement. a lot of our front line workers take it, because it possibly and, i think it does, but, you know, people are going to have to make up their own mind. plus, it doesn't hurt people. it's been out on the market for 60 or 65 years for malaria, lupus, and other things. i think it gives you an additional level of safety. >> today, the medical community is reminding all americans that hydroxychloroquine has not been shown to be safe or effective for treating coronavirus or to prevent it. and minutes after trump announced he was taking it yesterday, viewers on fox news heard these warnings. >> that you are in a risky population here and you are taking this as a preventative treatment to ward off the virus or in a worst-case scenario, you are dealing with the virus. and you are in this vulnerable population, it will kill you. i cannot stress enough. this will kill you. >> these drugs can be very dangerous.

and if they don't have any effect, there's no reason to take them. >> that might have prompted president trump to tweet last night that he was, quote, looking for a new outlet and missed roger ailes. house speaker nancy pelosi used the news to take a shot at the president's health. >> he's our president and i would rather he not be taking something that has not been approved by the scientists, especially in his age group and in his, shall we say, weight group, who is morbidly obese, they say. so i think that it's not a good idea. >> speaker pelosi will join me on "deadline white house" in exactly one hour. joining our conversation, though, "los angeles times" white house reporter eli stokols and dr. erwin redlener, an nbc health analyst. eli stokols, the president is on the move today, out and about,

talking about his use of a drug that the fda warned was lethal when taken outside of a hospital. when president trump said, take it, what do you have to lose, the american medical association answered him directly by saying, your life. is the president trying to convince anyone else to take it or simply defending himself from criticism that he takes it. >> i think most likely the latter, nicole. it's hard to know given this transparency and the lack of transparency we've seen from him over the years related to health questions, not to mention other topics. it's hard to know or at least not be a little skeptical of his claim that he is taking, and certainly the vice president today said that he is not taking it and obviously, we have to take him at his word for that. so you can look at this two different ways. you can look at this as a president who may be feeling especially vulnerable. the statement from the white house basically attributed or linked him taking this with the

positive test by a military valet, who is very close to the president a week or so ago and so you can understand, fthe president said today, he's looking for an extra layer of protection, maybe that's why he's taking this, although we certainly don't know that he is and what dosage he's taking it in. but the point you made that the president going to great lengths to prove that he is right. to prove that he did not make a mistake in contradicting his own fda, which has warned people not to take this, that it doesn't -- that there aren't benefits and there are great risks to taking this for coronavirus symptoms without consulting a doctor. this is a president who in an interview with fox news recently said that the central takeaway from the last couple of months was that he was right all along. and that's really a central operating principle for him and a lot of his behaviors so i think part of this, you can see

the eagerness he showed yesterday to tell this to the reporters. he knew he would get a reaction. he was eager to put this out there. i think this is obviously a president who will go to great lengths to avoid admitting that he could have been wrong about something. that his position is contradicted by experts, and you heard it again this afternoon, when he attributed all of the health warnings to trump enemies. >> so i guess dr. redlener, the fda falls in the category of a trump enemy, because this is what the fda says about hydroxychloroquine. >> hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine have not been shown to be safe and effective for treating a preventing covid-19. they are being study in clinical trials for covid-19, and we authorize their temporary use during the covid-19 pandemic for treatment of the virus and hospitalized patients when clinical trials are not available or participation is not feasible.

for anyone out there, and it really is a sort of 1% thing, people who can go get their hands on drugs outside of a hospital, but there are people who support donald trump, who might try some of what he's tried, which i went through today to see if there's any of the health advice for fighting coronavirus that he's following. he's not wearing a mask. he's not practicing much social distancing, at least when we see him in public. he is taking hydroxychloroquine. his plan for getting a safe vaccine to market is called operation warp speed and the only public health measure that he's embraced is hand washing. >> yeah, nicole, it's hard to understand what's going through his mind, of course. but is it possible that he's completely oblivious to the fact when he says and does things that it's going to be emulated by so many people in america, part of his cult -- i mean, part of his following. i guess it's possible, but i don't think the history of his

actions and statements as president really supports that. i think everything is calculated, everything is intentional. he is defiant as an m.o. of his personality and what he's attempting to do and show himself as a leader, but the fact that he's doing and saying these things, as you just recounted, nicole, that are just -- they're just preposterous. and it's dangerous -- it's okay, if i want to do something outside the ordinary or you do and maybe i'll have a handful of people that might pay attention, but he's president of the united states. his words have impact across the entire world. so when he says something that's dangerous or when he ponders out loud at a briefing about the use of bleach and isopropyl alcohol or use of uv lights in your body

to prevent or treat covid-19, people pay attention to those things. and he himself has become a personal health hazard to citizens of this country. it's just astounding. and i'm hoping that somebody can talk some sense into him. by the way, he did say he was taking it daily for more than a week, and that's not even the dose you would use to prevent malaria. that's a weekly dose. this is a dose that you would take daily if you're very, very sick with malaria or lupus. but to even suggest that, as a potential option for treating or preventing covid-19 is so far out of bounds from the medical point of view that it's just astonishing, nicole. >> let me ask you about the two pieces of tape we played. neal cavuto, who's my neighbor in cable television over on fox news at 4:00 p.m., there was some fear in his voice, urging his viewers with any risk factors not to take it.

can you address the dangers in taking it if it's not been described -- it doesn't recommend that anyone take it, unless you're in the on the in some sort of critical care situation and your doctor thinks that it might have a positive impact, but even news reporting suggests that's not always the case. and nancy pelosi describing donald trump as morbidly obese. a lot of people are reading into the state of their relationship, but that is his health report, as put out by the white house doctor, the last time we had any sort of public release about his health. his weight was technically morbidly obese. >> that's true, nicole. and the other thing is -- the problem with this drug, first of all, it's not proven to be effective. so we don't even know yet what works, what will take a chance. it's not proven yet to be effective with covid. and number two, it is not safe. we already know that, that there are people with risk factors that actually die from the

cardiac complications of taking hydroxychloroquine. so to say that, you know, why not give it a try, which is basically trump's mantra on this, is not appropriate. it is hazardous to do what he's saying. and the people that are getting it are getting it in what's called protocols. they're given the drug as last-ditch efforts, hoping that something might happen. but sort of, the thing that happens is nothing to help covid and potentially -- and people getting heart disease or some deaths associated with it. so there's nothing okay about trump reemcommendations or his cavalier attitude like, why not give it a try? there are a lot of why notes that i just recounted and people should really, really ignore this advice or this implications of advice that are coming from the oval office and that incredibly powerful bully pulpit

that he occupies, nicole. >> powerful, but with diminishing approval for the job he's doing. eli, i want you to take us through your reporting, but i also want to throw in the backdrop against which you report, that trump lashes out with distractions and disinformation. there's some cause and effect here afoot, one can safely assume. the governor of maryland, a republican, larry hogan, has an 85% approval rate. the republican governor of massachusetts has an 82% approval rating. the ohio republican governor, mark dewine, one of the earliest states to shut down, a devout mask wearer and advocate of social distancing, not pushing hydroxychloroquine on the good people of ohio, an 80% approval rating. new york governor andrew cuomo, our country's epicenter of covid-19, a 75% approval rating. new jersey's democratic governor, phil murphy, a 74% approval rating. california democratic governor,

gavin newsom, a 72% approval rating. republican governor brian kemp is down at 43%. he got a disapproving nod from the president and vice president for his early and aggressive reopening, but he's the only one that sits down where trump is, in terms of how he's viewed by the public at 43%. tell us what -- what you have observed to be the impact of his political standing. >> well, the political standing does have something to do with it. and this is a president that has been confronted in recent weeks with dismal public and private campaign polling, showing that he has lost a lot of ground. especially in april, and that now he is struggling to make up that ground. i would hesitate to say that's what explains all of these news stories, all of the chum the president throws into the water, because he has always been doing that. if anything, it's probably more likely that the polling is a

reflection of the chaos that we see every day from this president and the way that looks differently to people in the middle of a pandemic, where at this point, more than 91,000 americans have already perished and close to 40 million americans have lost their jobs in just a couple of months. obviously, you know, this serves as a distraction. whether it's intentional and the president is just trying to talk about and focus the country on something other than the death toll and the job situation, that's a matter for debate, but we talk to a lot of experts in putting this story together and trying to assess, you know, some context for the president using the oval office to disseminate so much misinformation and people who study the american presidency, people who study political science generally across the world, they cannot think of another situation when someone has used so powerful an office to -- so brazenly to disseminate so many falsehoods

and conspiracy theories at one time, but conspiracy theories, grievance, this is something that the president politically cannot really function without. so even in a pandemic, he's talking about himself as a victim of the deep state. he's talking about himself as a victim of the media. and we're seeing that in a lot of these stories and in a lot of the things that the president is putting out there when he comes in front of the news cameras, the white house press pool a couple of times a day. >> an unbelievable state of affairs at that building that you cover, eli stokols. thank you very much for sharing your reporting with us and dr. erwin redlener, thank you for sharing your expertise with us. when we return, the governor of michigan vows to stick to the science as parts of her state reopen today, while the mayor of hard-hit detroit says his city is ready for business and is awaiting the green light to reopen. he'll join us, next. later, the health official in florida who says she was removed from her job because she

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i'm not going to succumb to political pressure or political demonstrations or social media pressure. the fact of the matter is, we have to listen to our epidemiologists. we have to listen to our experts and our phenomenal research universities in michigan. we are talking with international experts, as well.

we're going to stay tethered to the data. we're going to follow the science. and we've got to get this right. and anything else is -- puts people in jeopardy, and i'm not willing to do that. >> that was michigan's democratic governor, gretchen whitmer, standing her ground, insisting that monday's decision to reopen the northern part of michigan was data driven, now that the state has seen a steady decline of new cases of covid. you'll recall the city of detroit in the southern part of the state was a hot spot. today, catholic churches in detroit are opening their doors and holding in-person mass for the very first time since the state shut down. the move comes as mayor mike duggen announced that once governor whitmer gives him the green light, he plans to take the next restaurants and retailers with social distancing measures in place. joining us now is the mayor of detroit, mike duggen. mayor, how is your state of readiness in terms of making

this move from stay-at-home orders to a safe roeeopening? and what have you learned from watching some of the states that have gone first? >> it's been an amazing four weeks. father weeks ago, we were losing 40 or 50 people a day, the hospitals were overwhelmed, we had people on gurneys in the hallway. a quarter of the police department was off on quarantine. but detroit hit it hard. we set up a huge testing site that tested 2,000 people a day. the governor did a fine job with the social distancing orders and detroiters complied. everybody has masks. the people have embraced it, now we're down to two or three deaths a day, two-thirds of our hospital beds are empty. our construction is back open, our auto plants are back open. but we've done it on science. everything that we did, i spent nine years running the hospital system here in the detroit medical center. everything that we reopened is, you test your employees. you take the temperatures every morning, as i get my temperature

taken, we're wearing masks. here at city hall, all day long, we've got the appropriate distancing requirements, we've got the appropriate inspections. and i think we're not ready to open restaurants yet. we're not that far along. but bookstores, art stores, clothing stores. i think we're ready to open in the city of detroit and ready to take that next step. >> what is the mood of the business community? is there confidence that the consumers will come back? that they feel safe enough, doing all the things that you just described, wearing masks and having the capacity in your hospitals, should there be a flare-up? >> so i think everybody was reassured. yesterday, people went back to the assembly plants. and as the tv stations interviewed the employees coming out, the universally positive reaction that the companies had taken, i think, reassured everybody. now, even if you open a clothing store tomorrow and you do everything right, doesn't mean

your commerce are going to be ready to come back right away. you're going to have to show them that there's going to be masks there. if you go inside as a customer, you'll be wearing a mask. you'll have to show them what your cleaning protocols are. but i think people will venture out based on their experience. and i think we will reopen cautiously and appropriately. customers will come back, and as they feel more confident, we'll get a few weeks down the road and maybe restaurants will open partway. but that kind of approach, which is what the governor has done, i think the people of this state overwhelmingly support. >> do you have a position or you leading conversations about school in the fall and tell me how this new syndrome, this inflammatory syndrome in children, which is very rare, but very serious and scary for parents and for everybody, plays into or will play into your conversations about the school year in the fall.

>> well, we're all looking at the science on it, and it's certainly a concern for the children, but when the schools were shut down by the governor, the teachers and school administrators were pretty much not showing up for work. because certainly what was happening in march was that it was being spread to the adults and we lost some teachers in this state. so it's too early in my mind to make a judgment now. but talking about a lot of different things. do you have half the kids go one day and half the kids go the next day in order to create spacing? if you do that, as a parent, how do you deal with the fact that your child goes to school every other day. i think we're probably three to four weeks away from being able make a decision. >> because your city has been following the science and because you have, as you just described, benched your curve in terms of hospitalizations and

hospital capacity, talk about what -- i live in new york city, what might we learn from your reopening? what have you done to make public transportation safer? what are you doing? because bringing some of these things back requires people to have confidence in some of the infrastructure that -- at least in my city, is approving some of the most vexing things to reassure the public that they can be made safe. >> well, my daughter works and lives in new york city and just came home to michigan and i was pleased that she felt that we were safer. but these are the questions that you have to ask. and we don't have the density that new york has. but the other thing is, i haven't had the problems that mayor de blasio has had. i haven't had to close parks or put out curfews, because the african-american community have no trouble understanding that if you are black and get covid-19, you're two to three times more

likely to die than a caucasian. so what you have seen in the city of detroit is enormous cooperation. our police department, when they run across groups, they break up in fairly friendly fashion, at times our police give masks to people they see in the groups, who thank them and disperse. and so you've seen the rate of infectio infections decline here faster than probably anywhere else in the country. but it isn't what government has done, it's the residents that live here. i've been lucky to be mayor of a city that embraced social distancing right from the very beginning. >> mayor duggan w, i hope your daughter returns to new york when new york reopens back up again, but i'm glad she's there with you. keep coming back. let's keep this conversation going. reopening probably won't be a straight line for any of us and we love to hear how it goes for you. so thank you for spending some time with us today. >> thanks for having me on,

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in florida, a slew of covid-19-related data has suddenly gone missing in what researchers say is part of a government effort to censor scientific information and keep it from going publ