♪ welcome to tuesday. it is "meet the press daily." i'm chuck todd continuing msnbc's special coverage of the coronavirus pandemic. by tomorrow every state on this map will be green. all 50 states will have partial reopenings officially under way. just in time, of course, for memorial day weekend. more than 91,000 americans have died so far. more are expected as we reopen. job losses are at great depression levels, which are expected to get worse before they get better. and the country remains sorely

politically divided. but even during these unprecedented times the president's playbook doesn't really seem to change. he lashes out in response to scrutiny. he undermines institutions. and he defies experts. the president made more comments today touting the safety and effectiveness of a coronavirus treatment that the fda specifically says has not been shown to be safe and effective for treating or preventing covid-19. in fact, the agency warned of heart rhythm problems. in contrast here's the president this afternoon further explaining why he says he personally is taking the drug. >> i think it gives you an additional level of safety. but you can ask many doctors are in favor of it. many front line workers won't go there unless they have the hydroxy. so again, this is an individual decision to make. but it's had a great reputation. and if it was somebody else other than me people would say gee, isn't that smart? >> moments ago while addressing reporters after a cabinet meeting the president characterized one of his own administration's studies on hydroxychloroquine as phony.

it was a v.a. study. he hs tried to paint rising case numbers as a positive development because of the increasing testing. covid numbers a badge of honor. in addition to touting unproven treatments and defiance of scientific experts, the president has also pushed timelines for reopening that experts have cautioned were unrealistic. and if followed potentially dangerous. he's claimed the u.s. has prevailed on testing when experts have cautioned otherwise. he's claimed the u.s. will not see a resurgence of the virus in the fall. again, contradicting the experts. he publicly asked his advisers to investigate whether injecting household disinfectants like bleach could treat the virus, which his public experts had to correct. and the defiance of experts is just one part of the trump playbook. he also lashes out at any scrutiny that comes his way. he's been repeated i. at times, viciously maligning the free press. he's also removed four government watchdogs just in the last month. he's also undermining institutions. in this case he's now threatening to pull funding and withdraw the u.s.'s membership from the world health organization.

we've seen the consequences of the trump playbook before. so what happens now as we look to confidently reopen amid this pandemic? joining me now with the latest from both industry of pennsylvania avenue are nbc's carol lee at the white house, garrett haake on capitol hill, also with us robert costa national political reporter for the "washington post" and an msnbc political analyst. and finally with us from a medical perspective is have vin gupta, pull monologist, pandemics consultant and an msnbc medical contributor. i want to start down in congress today earlier today garrett haake, the president traveled to capitol hill and i thought i saw in one of your notes, and correct me if i'm wrong, that they had lunch together with the senate republicans and it was a buffet lunch? first of all, what have you learned from the lunch and was it really a buffet lunch in this atmosphere? >> that's how it was described to the senators on the way in, chuck. on the way out i was more interested in hearing what the president said. it sounded like another of these

visits the president makes to the capitol and they all tend to be the same. they're very free associative. he comes into these gop lunches and just sort of riffs on the things that he's interested in. he told senators that they need to be tougher, that they need to stick together, that they need to stay on his side. i wouldn't call it quite a pep rally but it was an attempt to rallit party around him as he faces all of this criticism that comes with the reopening of the economy. essentially also asking senators to stay with him on issues around investigating the president -- former president obama, michael flynn, all of those issues, essentially just trying to draw the party back in toward him. these hearings -- these hearings. these lunches tend to be relatively light on policy specifics. he sometimes takes questions from senators. but it won't surprise anybody for me to say the president is not the most detailed policy person. and so you end up having after these lunches senators come out and say he agreed with me on policy x. and in fact i asked him about

policy y and we're not doing that. there's this whole ritual that goes to these lunches. we saw it today in a time of coronavirus some things are still the same. >> so garrett, did the president have an agenda or was this mitch mcconnell wanting to present a public face of unity for purposes of congressional negotiations? >> reporter: i get the sense this was the president's show. senators were only told this morning a few hours beforehand that the president would be coming to capitol hill. he controls the agenda here. there is increasing pressure on senate republicans to put forward some kind of new aid bill, some kind of new relief bill. and so there had been discussion about that. in fact, as early as this morning when the vice president and treasury secretary came to the hill to discuss that more specifically with mitch mcconnell and kevin mccarthy. but as with the president always, it's hard to celebrate the policy and the what about me part of it. and it sounds like from the

senators i've spoken to, more than half a dozen, this was more about the what about me part of it in terms of what was on his mind today at this lunch. >> well, that brings us to another meeting he had today. let's go down pennsylvania avenue. carol lee, the cabinet meeting. did it have an agenda per se or was this more of the president just trying to get his cabinet on the same page? >> yeah, well, the centerpiece of it essentially was the president signing an executive order that gave -- it gives federal agencies broad authority to put a delay on any new regulations. there was that piece. but it really turned into the president defending his decision to take hydroxychloroquine. he bashed china for a time. some of his cabinet members jumped in to also defend his decision to take hydroxychloroquine. but to me one of the most interest things the president said, which i go to garrett's

point about how the president views the next phase of recovery package or the effort to get the economy going, is he was asked, you know, what are you going to do? what's your plan for the millions of americans who are out of work? and he said, my plan is opening up the country. and that's it. and he didn't elaborate from there. so you know, i think what you see from garrett's reporting, based on what lawmakers heard from the president, in that lunch, he's where he wants to be. he wanted -- he wants to talk about the justice department and the obama administration officials and that fight. and it was an interesting contrast to what when you talk to people at the white house want him to be talking about. they said he was going over there to talk about the economy, to talk about the coronavirus response, and that's really where they want him to be. but he keeps going back to where he wants to be, which is in these very aggressive battles with the former administration. >> i do want to bring one thing he did bring up on the virus is

testing. i want to play the sound bite on what he said, that the uptick in cases is a good thing. take a listen to how he put it. >> when we have a lot of cases, i don't look at that as a bad thing. i look at that as in a certain respect as being a good thing. because it means our testing is much better. so if we were testing a million people instead of 14 million people, we would have far fewer cases. right? so i view it as a badge of honor. really it's a badge of honor. it's a great tribute to the testing and all of the work that a lot of professionals have done. >> robert costa, the president doesn't view testing it seems as if part of the reopening strategy. he sees testing as somehow -- on the economy. it does seem as if he keeps putting it in almost the health category that he's yet to connect it with confidence in order to get consumers to show

up. why is that? >> the "washington post" is reporting in recent days that testing is more widely available in some states that are reopening and the president has looked to that headline, tweeted about it, but the story's much more complicated in the states because many businesses are not comfortable about reopening unless they have the swabs, the reagents, the tests to make sure their customer base, their employees all feel comfortable about showing up at the office or at the restaurant and sustaining that business over time. so governors at the highest levels of these states feel confident. it's the bitzs who are still struggling with the details of testing and how to move forward with all the knowledge they have and the supplies. >> you know, robert, i'm curious. we know the president loves it when he talks ceo to ceo in his mind, right? i'm surprised some ceos haven't gotten in his ear directly on this testing issue to make him understand it's about -- that if you want a faster economic

recovery this is how you get confidence. are there ceos ready to make that direct case to him? >> they're making a direct case to him, chuck, but it's a little bit of a different kind of direct case. in fact, this visit to the capitol today answers your question. the president and the white house, you don't see them pushing a deal yet with democrats. they know secretary mnuchin, chairman powell all testifying about the economic tragedy in this country, but they're holding back on any kind of deal until they secure liability protections for corporations. that's the republican line at this point. that's why the republican was there, hearing from his members, hearing from leader mcconnell. are they really going to dig in now on this liability question? because they're not talking so much about what you're talking about, chuck, which is the testing component. >> yeah. no, it is. and we know a lot of liability issues there. dr. gupta, you're here because i do feel as if viewers need to have a clear picture of the medical perspective on hydroxychloroquine. but before you respond, the

president responded today to a reminder that his own administration has studied this and has put up a few yellow flags. take a listen. >> if you look at the one survey, the only bad survey, they were giving it to people that were in very bad shape. they were very old, almost dead. it was a trump enemy statement. >> there was a false study done where they gave it to very sick people. extremely sick people. people that were ready to die. it was given by obviously not friends of the administration. >> so dr. gupta, he's referring to the one survey that the va put out when they started using it. let's clear the decks here. hydroxychloroquine. facts versus myths. go. >> thanks, chuck. good to see you. so this was -- first of all, this wasn't a survey, as the

president calls it. this was a rigorous, multiarmed trial at a va facility here in the united states. and people weren't dying. i take offense to even that definition. i was just in an icu caring for a really packed covid -- lots of covid critically ill patients here in seattle just last night, and a lot of folks do actually survive. and it's important to talk with sensitivity about this. the president needs to temper his tones. what that study showed was that those individuals on a ventilator who got hydroxychloroquine did worse than those individuals who got hydroxychloroquine plus an antibiotic, azith roh misin, otherwise known as z-pak, or those that didn't get either. there was no therapeutic benefit. you didn't get out of an icu more quickly if you got hydroxychloroquine. that's what the president, if he goes back to mid march, that's what he was claiming. what have you got to lose? maybe you're on death's door what have you got to lose?

these are verbatim essentially quotes of what he was saying in mid march. when then subsequently people said hey, let me go out and get some hydroxychloroquine. he needs to be careful. number two, there was a study out of france that was not funded by the government that said -- that looked at those who got hydroxychloroquine versus those who did not. again, hospitalized patients. what they found was those that got it, 10% of the individuals that got it got nearly fatal cardiac airrith mias. basically disruption of the electrical conduction system in your heart. that can cause people to die. that's what we're dealing with here. somebody who has cardiovascular risk factors like the president, who's obese, he needs to be extra careful. so if he's messaging or if he's lying about taking hydro hydroxychloroqui hydroxychloroquine, doesn't matter. he should not be propagating this myth that this is something that you should be taking because people can get harmed. and that's the pob herroblem he. and some people listen to the president. >> it's my understanding -- we

talked with a doctor earlier who's working on a current clinical trial, and she was saying she is on hydroxychloroquine and unfortunately it's become so polarized she's having a hard time recruiting people, either people believe the president and they don't want a risk of 50-50 they may not get it, or people don't believe the president and they are afraid of the risk. his voice in this has polarized the scientific research. this scientist's ability to do the research. >> i think that's right. some people just will not believe anything that the president says. others will take it as gospel. and that is impacting clinical trials that are under way, chuck. to answer the question that you just posed. which is does this provide some protection to frontline workers? >> what would you tell somebody that wants to take it? what would you tell a colleague who says man, i get, it i know

we're still trying to figure this out, but boy, i'd rather take something than nothing? what would you tell that person? >> i'd tell that person equivocally there is no demonstrated benefit to prevent and/or treat covid-19 but there's a ton of potential harm and we can't predict who is and who is not at risk for a bad outcome from hydroxychloroquine, so don't take it. >> is there any preventative -- are you on the z-pak? would you prescribe a z-pak to somebody without hydro hydroxychloroquine as a way of trying to either slow down or prevent covid? >> chuck, so there's no therapeutic that can prevent covid-19. but you know what could potentially mitigate it? is a simple thing. it's a mask. and we need to move toward mandatory masks in public when we can't institute social distancing. and that's the one policy that

the president, his vice president, senator rand paul, others seem to not want to get their head around even though more and more science says that's the one thing we can do to relate mitigate the sxreeftd itd 19 as we zblooingtz zblooirnlth wearing societies. mask wearing societies. that's the key piece. that's the only thing we can do to prevent that we know of at the moment. >> and just look at all the different styles of mask. you can keep your personality. lots of ways you can show your mask. and it is the simplest way to help everybody. carol lee, garrett haake, robert costa, and dr. vin gupta, thank you for getting us started this tuesday afternoon. up ahead, ready or not, most of america is reopening. at least in some way. we're going to check in with reporters covering some of these reopenings as some of the states with the earliest shutdowns and the strictest rul esest rules ag

to loosen the reins. check out last night's democratic senate primary debate in iowa. where each candidate tried to distance themselves from the pack with the help of some plex bl plexiglas barriers. perhaps that helped a little bit. we'll be right back 379 ack 37 ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ truly transformative sleep. so, no more tossing and turning. because only tempur-pedic adapts and responds to your body... ...so you get deep, uninterrupted sleep. during the tempur-pedic summer of sleep, all tempur-pedic mattresses are on sale! during the tempur-pedic summer of sleep, you should be mad at tech that makes things worse.

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welcome back. most of the country is starting to reopen for business, and that includes two of the earliest states to shut down. california and ohio. in california local governments are about to get more say in how and when they reopen. as long as counties follow state-issued guidelines, they can't go beyond what the state's doing. they can be tighter but they can't go beyond. in ohio governor mike dewine says his state has successfully slowed the spread of the virus and is moving forward with a plan. he calls ohioans helping ohioans. >> it's now time for our orders to reflect the reality of where we are today. ohioans through social distancing have avoided overwhelming our hospitals.

and we have flattened the curve. and that has been great work by all of you. >> take another look at this map we showed you at the top of the show. only connecticut and d.c. have not eased their stay-at-home orders yet. and connecticut is planning to open some businesses starting tomorrow, which is why we said tomorrow that map will be all green. joining me now is nbc's jo ling kent, who lives in california where parts of the state are speeding up their reopening. and ellison barber is in north carolina where the governor's considering scaling back restrictions even as though case numbers are rising. jo ling kent, let's start with you out in california. it's been interesting to watch governor newsom on one hand about two weeks ago it was clear he said i'm moving at my pace, i'm not going to feel the pressure. but as soon as other places have started to open up and he started to get a little bit of heat from some of the smaller rural counties in california, he seems to try to -- to be trying to stay a step ahead so that none of those annoyances

percolate into a full-fledged political battle. >> yeah. certainly politics has something to do with this. but if you look at what he said yesterday in his address, he was really focused on citing the data and he says the hospitalizations, the cases, the icu hospitalizations specifically appear to be steadying. and that is why he is changing the restrictions. and i want to read you what that new threshold here is. the counties can reopen if they show fewer than 25 coronavirus cases per 100,000 residents over the past two weeks, or no higher than 8%, chuck. in terms of a positive rate for people testing for the virus. so they've taken away the governor's taken away that threshold of no new deaths for counties, which means 53 out of your 58 counties here in california can reopen up. and if you meet it as a county that means you can start to possibly reopen your dining rooms and your malls. that would be good news for so many of those small and large

businesses especially as they're hit so badly on the retail sales front. he also hinted, governor newsom did, about sports, potentially by june 1st hair salons and sports games without attendees, without fans in the stands could possibly take place here. but certainly california one of the earliest states to close up. and what's interesting here is newsom now is saying that he is trying to "empower local health officials" to make their own decisions. but certainly a lot of antsy people here in california. chuck? >> jo ling kent, is there an emergency brake that newsom would pull and what is the metric that he would pull that brake on a specific county? is it hospitalizations? is it icu beds? what is his -- that number one metric he's most concerned about when pulling the brake? >> when you look at what he said yesterday, it looks like everything is based on hospitalization rates here and making sure that there's enough testing. so testing has become much more

common here. the protective gear for health care workers. also more prevalent, more available according to the governor's office. so when you look at what he's saying, it's basically on those rates of hospitalization and icu and cases overall. and so that percentage rate no higher than 8% of a positive rate among people who test for the virus appears to be that threshold. >> well, let's move to the other side, other coast here. ellison barber, you're in north carolina. you have a governor moving from his version of phase one to phase two. so let's fast-forward to this weekend. what does that mean, if you're traveling to north carolina, if you're driving to the outer banks or somewhere else in north carolina, what should you expect is open, what should you expect is closed? >> well, potentially on friday you could see the stay-at-home order lift for the majority of residents in north carolina. we could see bars, churches, entertainment venues,

restaurants open up with some restrictions. but the thing to remember is that that date is not yet set in stone. the governor has said that they are still evaluating the data, a key number that they are watching, which they seem optimistic when looking at is the total percent of positive covid-19 tests within the number of tests they have administered. they say right now that number is stable at about 7%. but here's a little bit of what governor cooper had to say yesterday when he talked about the idea of things reopening on the 22nd -- or on the 22nd, which is this friday. and again, he said that there's still going to be monitoring the data. listen here. >> we'll ease restrictions and move to phase two only if we're headed in the right direction with our data. as we watch and examine the trends, we're working with public health and the private sector to determine how we can reduce the spread in the next phase. >> so state parks in north carolina, they've been open for about two weeks now, and 15 of

those out of 41 hit their maximum capacity saturday and sunday within hours of opening. this park was one of them. there had been some concerns we've heard about in terms of people social distancing when they're at the park. we talked to the governor's office and they say they want people to come out, they want people to get some exercise and enjoy the parks. but even when they're outside of the parks they still want them social distancing, they still want them wearing face masks. chuck? >> jo ling kent on the west coast. ellison barber on the east coast. thank you both for that reporting. it's going to be interesting to watch as the week progresses. up ahead, states may be reopening, but there's still plenty of apprehension. what will it take to get america's economy truly going again? two top experts join me with an economic reality check. that's next. economic reality check that's next. ok everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy.

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welcome back. even as more businesses in more states are reopening, treasury secretary steve mnuchin and fed chair jerome powell told the senate banking committee today that the short-term pain caused by this pandemic will get worse before it gets better. >> let me just comment. i have said publicly and i'll say again, i think the job numbers will get worse before they get better. so i just want to be very clear that i think that june will be a very difficult quarter. >> and powell reiterated that the economy won't recover until people feel confident that they're safe. >> but you know, the number one thing of course is people believing that it's safe to go back to work.

and that's about having a sensible, thoughtful reopening of the country, something we all want. and something that we're in the early stages of now. >> with me now are jason fuhrman, former chair of the white house council of advisers under president obama currently professor of economics at harvard. douglas eakin, former chief economist of president bush's council of economic advisers. good to see you. jason, i tend to think that we know see what the divide is on capitol hill right now. you have a chunk of folks, mostly democrats, who believe there's got to be more urgency, more money pumped in here and we can debate how you do it. and there's a growing consensus among some republicans orrin capitol hill. not everybody. we know some believe there needs to be more action too. who are in a bit of a wait and see mode. i think i have an idea of where you are. do you at all have any empathy

toward the wait and see mode? >> we've done quite a lot. i think that's really true. i don't think we need to layer trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions on top of this. but what we're done comes to an end on july 31st for unemployed workers. something needs to be continued after that. and what we've done has been woefully insufficient for states and localities. they're going to start cutting their budgets, laying people off, and making our economic problems worse come the fall. that also needs to be dealt with. >> douglas, do you concur on the issue of state and local governments? should this be considered more of a priority than some see it? >> i think it's quite clear that lots of states and localities have undertaken the burden of the public health mission. it's in the national interest for them to do that. there's no reason why we

shouldn't as federal taxpayers pick up that tab in whole or in part. i think the real tough issue is that the cares act, the previous action of congress, gave the treasury a half a trillion dollars and that has essentially not been deployed by the federal reserve. and the potential to leverage that into another 2 1/2 trillion dollars worth of help, to all parts of the economy but especially to the states and localities which have their own dedicated facility at the fed which has not been opened to be used. if that works effectively, the bill you have to pay in other places goes down. it's not crazy to collect? data on that front before you go forward with the next step. regardless of the needs on the ground. that's important. >> well, let me follow up on that point, though, with you, douglas holtz eakin. even pat toomey, who is somebody that doesn't like to spend a lot of money, believes that steve mnuchin's being too conservative with this -- with control of this half a trillion dollars you're talking about.

and that he has said that treasury might make money off of this and there's a concern that that's why he's being so careful and he only wants to try to make investments that make money. is that a mistake? >> yes. that is a mistake. the congress voted and the president signed a bill that said go lose half a trillion dollars. and when the congressional budget office looked at this, it said they're not going to lose any money, they're going to charge so much for the loans they'll get the money back. and that's not the right strategy. the whole idea was to get the money out the door to broad swathsz of the economy. we've asked the larger businesses to take loans, not get grants as other places did. we're essentially asking states and localities to do that because when the revenue went away for the businesses the sales taxes went away for the states. so that's what this was supposed to do. and to do it quickly. and that meant taking risks that lost money. the secretary basically said today that he's willing to take risks but there's no evidence

the treasury's being aggressive enough. i think that's an unforced error by the treasury. that's been true for a while. and hopefully today's hearing will get them to move more quickly on that front. >> jason furman, there's also a bit of 'geographic challenge for opening up the economy. the fact of the matter is many of the metro areas can't be opened up as fast as non-metro areas. and for most states the metro areas account for 60% to 70% of the entire economic output of a sta state. how should that be factored in into this rescue as we rescue the economy? unfortunately, i think we're getting into a red-blue divide on this stuff rather than realizing the two need each other if you want this economy to recover. >> yeah. a lot of what matters for the economy isn't what governors say about what's open or not open. it's what people are willing to

do and feel safe doing. you could open up all the restaurants in my neighborhood tomorrow, and i wouldn't go into any of them. to sit and dine there. that's why when you look at the consumption data in georgia and you look at the consumption data in new york state day by day they've gone up and down in almost exactly the same manner even though they had very different epidemics, very different policies from their governors. so if you want to have a successful reopening strategy, that has to be how you're successfully controlling the virus, controlling the spread of the virus. and absent that, whether it's face masks, testing and tracing, what have you, you're not going to get very much economic activity back. >> let me ask you, this jason furman. is that -- you're being asked how do you get demand back. right? this to me is the biggest unknown here. you can't open demand. you can open a store, but you

can't open demand. how would you expedite demand? is it all testing and tracing at this point? >> there's not a lot economic policy can do in that regard for households. through the end of july. there's an issue that things expire at end of then 37 but right now unemployment insurance is essentially replacing lost earnings. a family of four has gotten a check for $3,400. there are definitely people hurting in the economy. there are too many that have fallen through the cracks. certain immigrants, certain people on nutritional assistance without health care. but for the bulk of people the issue is they can't spend money, not that they don't have the money to spend. so i think we've done mostly the right thing on fiscal policy. we've left out some people. we've left out states and localities. but for most households we've done the right thing. it's health care that we need to get right to really fix the

economy from here. >> i saw cory gardner endorse the josh hawley payroll -- his version of how to protect the payroll. it's slightly different than what we've seen a progressive version of it. but there's a lot of resistance inside the republican community. do you think that's going to get more traction or not? >> i don't think so. it has a real problem at this point in the nation with dealing with the pandemic fallout. we've done an extraordinary amount as jason has said to support the amount and take on the need to put the economy in suspended animation through the worst of the pandemic. we're now trying to figure out step by step where we will be able to reopen. it's never been fully closed. so where can we open more and what does it take to eliminate the fear that is at the core of stopping people from going forward to work and for businesses to open their shops because of liability concerns? you know, what all that means is the economy's going to come back

in some new form. it'll look different because we have a virus, we have to face every day. and we have to adjust and modify to that. what the hawley approach does is say we want to lock the economy in the way it looked in january. and that's just a bad idea. we need to allow the economy to do what it typically does, which is adjust to conditions. we've been paying people to not adjust. that was a strategy. do nothing for 2 1/2 months. now we have to give incentives to adjust to what we have, make people feel safe at work, make people feel safe in commerce, and build the economy for the remainder of 2020 and beyond. >> jason furman and douglas holtz-eakin, thank you both for sharing your expertise and your points of view with our viewers. it's nice to hear from a couple of experts rather than politicians sometimes. so thank you both. and we're going to talk to one of the senators in the midst of this stark divide over what the government should do to help the economy and the american people. we'll be right back. the america. we'll be right back. effortless is the lincoln way.

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if you don't fund new york state government, you know what that means? that means i have to cut aid to northwell, to hospitals, to nurses, to doctors. it means i have to cut aid to local governments that fund police and firefighters. i have to fund funding to schools. teachers. who also have been heroes doing remote learning, et cetera. it's about priorities. it's about values. >> welcome back. that was new york governor andrew cuomo earlier today. his warning about the potential dire economic consequences for states was echoed by senator bob menendez in today's senate hearing. menendez is one a bipartisan group of senators proposing a $500 billion funding bill to target the hits to state budgets. and new jersey democratic senator bob menendez joins me now. senator menendez, i get the feeling there is going to be momentum here for aid to states.

i guess the question i have is what is that aid going to look like? how many parameters on it are acceptable to you? and is there a parameter to state aid that republicans might tack on that you would find is a non-starter? >> well, chuck, i think we've got a good beginning in the smart legislation that senator bill cassidy of louisiana, republican, senator hyde-smith of mississippi, sturn susan collins of maine, joe manchin of west virginia. it's an ideological and diversified geographic reach that i think speaks to the challenge ahead. and we have made some concessions. for example, there's language in our legislation that says that smart money can't be used for pensions. we've lowered the threshold as to making sure smaller communities get access. we've made a series of concessions in the spirit of bipartisanship. and i would think that that's

ultimately what we need to see. and at the end of the day i hope we don't harness this with id l ideological issues that have nothing to do with what we heard chairman powell in response to my question say today that in fact it can be an even more significant drag on the economy if we continue to see the type of layoffs that the department -- the bureau of labor statistics noted, that in april over a million public employees across the country were let go. if that continues, we're only going to see more consequences. >> do you think this opposition to aid to states that's supposedly out there, do you think it's real or it's a negotiating tactic? for the liability -- for the liability issue. >> i think it started off as a real element of, you know, don't help blue states. but it's become crystal clear. moody's just put out a study that said ohio, arizona is

seeing a fiscal shot of 20% in their budget. west virginia, 40%. this is not a blue state red state issue. so i think it started off like that. but i think it may be more of a negotiating tactic as it relates to the liability question. >> hey, i want to switch gears to this i.g. situation, particularly at the state department. i know you and your counter -- one of your counterparts on the house side on foreign relations, you're the ranking member, eliot eng engel's obviously chairman on the house side of things, looking into this. i'm curious, what is a better way to protect i.g.s in the executive branch regardless of who the president is? clearly this doesn't work, the system that we have. what do you any would be a better way to protect i.g.s? >> i agree with you, chuck, that this system doesn't work.

there has to be a better way. that's why i'm introducing legislation that does a couple of things. number one, insist that an inspector general can only be removed for cause. number two, give the congress in that 30-day period the ability to reject the president's dismissal of an inspector general. three, have a detailed reasoning that the president would have to give congress for the dismissal of an inspector general. these are all safeguards that don't exist today that i think are critical to keep inspector generals and their independence, which is critical to the checks and balances of our government, critical for transparency and honesty for the american taxpayer. >> i have to say, i'm mildly surprised that we publicly know that it was the secretary of state who asked the president to do this. what does that tell you? >> well, it tells you a couple

things. number one is the president was happy to throw the secretary of state under the bus in terms of why he did it. number two is it tells you a lot about that whatever the inspector general was pursuing the secretary of state did not want to see happen. i mean, this is an inspector general that's been tough on the previous administration, under the obama administration, tough in this administration. already 3 1/2 years into this administration. at this late stage to seek to dismiss him must only mean that you really had a problem with what he was coming up with. and the commentaries i've heard the secretary of state say, that he wasn't meaning the inspector general working in a way that they wanted him to, well, that's the whole purpose of inspector generals. they're independent. they work their way to provide the truth and transparency, not the way you'd like it to. >> i saw that statement too, and i thought, yeah, i don't think it's supposed to act like a

member of your staff. anyway, senator menendez, democrat from new jersey, the ranking member on foreign relations, thanks for coming on and sharing your views. i appreciate it. >> thank you. up next, we're going to take you to mexico city, where coronavirus cases are spiking and the numbers may be even worse than we know. these are extraordinary times, and we want to thank the extraordinary people in the healthcare community, working to care for all of us. at novartis, we promise to do our part. as always, we're doing everything we can

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welcome back. covid-19 cases in south america are rising rapidly and brazil is

emerging as the world's fastest growing coronavirus hot spot. it now has the third number cases globally, taking over the uk. the country reporting over 250,000 cases as the president, bolsonaro continues to ignore warnings of the health officials in other parts the situation isn't any better. chile, peru and mexico are seeing a huge spice. in mexico city, a new investigation reports that the actual number of coronavirus cases is much higher than the official toll. with me now our chief foreign correspondent richard engel is in mexico city. the president was not a big social distance guy. he wanted to project an image of strength in all of this and being a man of the people. and now mexico city is in a tough spot. and it appears to be tougher

than we see. >> the president is saying guidelines are really recommendations and it's up to the different regions to decide what pace they're going to open. i was at one of the most crowded markets in the world, really in mexico city. it's about 800 acres of stall after stall after stall. and it gets about a half million visitors every dayle day. it is never closed. inside it is impossible to have any kind of social distancing. it's open 24/7, and the people i spoke to said they really have no choice. not because the government is telling them they should open, not because the government is telling them they should close, but if they don't work, they're not going to be able to survive. they're not going to be able to feed their families. so they've been facing this very

difficult sophie's choice, stay open and potentially go hungry, or gamble and run the risks of dealing with covid-19. now the president -- the president here did in fact regret some of those earlier statements. he said that in the very early days he went out. he was mingling with the crowds. he was trying to downplay it. now he is acknowledging it that it is very, very serious, but the country is acknowledging that the causes of deaths not written down on death certificates, and it found that most likely according to the study, the death toll is about three times the official count here in mexico city. but at the official level, they are not exactly sure what they are supposed to do with it. so many people in this country, about half the population live in poverty and have no choice but to go to work.

working from home is not really an option. >> well, the way this has ravaged cities, i think we're all thinking about mexico city, and it's a little bit of white knuckles. you hope it doesn't end up in the situation we saw in new york city. richard engel on the ground for us in mexico city. you'll see more of richard's reporting on "nightly news" for some you have in about a half hour. that's all we have tonight. we'll be back tomorrow with more "meet the press daily." "the beat" with ari melber begins right after this short break. right after this short break. [squawks] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ if you have a garden you know, weeds are low down little scoundrels. with roundup sure shot wand you don't need to stoop to their level. draw the line. the sure shot wand extends with a protective shield to pinpoint those pesky bedfellows.

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welcome to "the beat." i am ari melber. we have a busy show tonight. top trump officials grilled on this ongoing economy. some calling it a trump recession. tonight we have a special report on how to grieve during crisis. why president trump has many disappointed. some are longing for president obama right now. later, dr. zeke emanuel is here on the reported censoring of the scientists collecting covid-19 data. and tonight an exclusive interview on "the beat" from a volunteer from that early vaccine trial that is showing some promising results. we can all use good news like that. but we begin with something that affects every american's life right now, this troubled economy and a clash over where to go from here with 36 million people without jobs. today for the first time since this pandemic began, we actually saw two top trump economic officials being pressed, testifying before congress. treasury secretary steve mnuchin