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president trump's tour of these battleground states,

again, all of them official presidential visits, come as new national polling and so that brings an asterisk from quinnipiac university shows his presumptive democratic opponent, joe biden, leading him by 11 points. the former vp has expanded his criticism of the white house to another front, trump's attacks on inspectors general. here's some of what he said last night. >> you know that used to be a hobby horse for republican senators. republican senators joined democrats. they were strongly, strongly supportive of these independent inspector generals starting with chairman grassley and others. where are they? why aren't they speaking up about this? it really bothers me. >> we are so happy to be reunited with lexi mccammond who has been reporting on the 2020 presidential election for axios for what seems like several years already. i mentioned the asterisk.

it's a national poll. as we always try to point out, we have 50 state elections. here's asterisk number two. by the way, joe biden is in his basement in wilmington, delaware. the president at least cloaked in a presidential visit travel package is in michigan just as he was in pennsylvania days ago, so where do you see this thing right now? >> i would add a third asterisk if i can, brian, and it's so good to see you. that goes without saying. but the third asterisk is that the top line of that poll you just showed is good news for the biden campaign, 11 points ahead of trump. that's great, but they will point you to two other numbers within that poll. biden is leading trump by 16 to 1 on who voters think can better handle the coronavirus and by 20 on who voters think could better handle health care for the

country. those three things combined with the top line suggests to me that voters are increasingly souring on president trump and moving to biden because of this unique moment that we're in. president trump of course can do what he's doing today, visit a ford plant in michigan, continue doing his presidential duties as he sees fit, but the key difference here that i think is working in biden's favor is that instead of tweets and reading about the president's thoughts via tweet, reading it in your own mind when whatever voice you think he's saying it in, now you're seeing it on your tv. it's interrupting your dinner at home with your family after you've been at home all day stuck watching tv or video conferencing for work and helping your kids learn and you're hearing the words from the president's mouth, seeing his behavior play out as a person, not just via tweet. i think that's really showing voters, bringing home to voters this idea that we're in a global pandemic and we need a leader in this moment. >> and it gets more complicated

as the pressure will increase as we get close to whatever these conventions are going to look like, some combination of virtual and actual, and there will be pressure on joe biden to get out and try to find a safe way to campaign other than purely by video. >> that's the interesting thing that we're all trying to figure out now, if and when trump moves to some sort of in-person rally, how will democrats and particularly joe biden feel pressure, if at all, to respond. i think the one thing we know by now is that joe biden is not taking any ques from president trump. the other thing we know is that joe biden has been listening to a lot of health experts just as president trump has, but joe biden has come to the conclusion that he doesn't need to get out and do in-person rallies and put people at risk because he's still generating a lot of support, interest, and raising a lot of money by doing all this from his basement in delaware.

president trump we know thrives in in-person rallies. he needs the energy from other people to be his fullest self. we see who he can be when he's standing up giving these daily coronavirus briefings, and that's not what voters want. they like the rally president more than they like the briefing president, but the question of course is what happens if president trump does this, starts holding in-person rallies. that's a huge liability not just for him on a personal level but especially on a political level. >> alexei, you make such an interesting point about the president's response shows up now in the top line of all of these polls. it sort of replays the economy as the issue on which people are judging him. i want to ask one more thing to this picture. i worked for politicians like sarah palin who, when her own words were turned against her by tina fey on "snl" it had a devastating impact. i wonder if you think the

president's own words, saying, well, people could inject bleach, some of the other just ridiculous things that he's said in the context of the pandemic and dispensing health advice, telling people what do you have to lose about taking hydroxychloroquine, then admitting he's taking it himself. if you think some of these statements may chip away at whatever narrative it is he's trying to sell to his own voters. >> the short answer is yes, nicolle. i think that's exactly right. i hear from voters who say as much. they don't say things -- before the coronavirus people would say i wish someone would take away his blackberry. i can't deal with the tweets. i don't want him to tweet anymore. you never hear about the tweets anymore. you hear about the words he uses at the coronavirus briefings. you hear about the behavior he's exhibiting at the coronavirus briefings, attacking reporters, especially female reporters for nurses. people are seeing this across the country, women, moms, voters of all stripes who have friends

or family members on the front lines are seeing the ways in which president trump is belittling those folks on the front line. so it is his exact words coming back to bite him because they can see right through it. you know, we did a focus group with voters in eastern iowa a couple of weeks ago. something one woman said to me i haven't stopped thinking about that is so simple but it's really telling because this sentiment is finally breaking through. she said when i listen to president trump at these coronavirus briefings, i always feel like i'm never getting a straight answer. that uncertainty on top of all the other uncertainty that comes with living in the middle of a global pandemic is not something voters want from their sitting president and it's not something they're going to reward him with or for at the ballot box in november. >> unbelievable times and it's wonderful to talk to you about them alexei mccammond. thank you so much for spending a

little bit of your afternoon with us. we're grateful. brian, this is the point in the hour when we say thank you and bid you farewell. what a day though. what an incredible -- i'm still -- how about congresswoman debbie dingell and her answer to you. i still have -- i mean, just to be reminded that she's heading to a memorial service and a funeral tomorrow, it really is -- i know you spend time on your broadcast every night at 11 talking about it and we do too but these are life or death decisions people have to make about going woback to work and leaving their homes. >> as chilling as not being able to answer all your questions about how to behave and what to plan for. it's an unknown. thanks for having me. i'll be watching. >> thank you, my friend. thank you. when we come back, the coronavirus disinformation campaign on social media and the

staggering number of accounts tweeting about the virus that are actually bots. that's next. that are actually bots. that's next. at leaf blowers.

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to close, twist until it clicks. tide pods child-guard packaging. war against coronavirus, the fight against disinformation about the deadly disease. researchers at carnegie mellon university found nearly half of the accounts tweeting about the virus are likely bots and identified more than 100 false narratives. among them, hospitals being filled with mannequins and

tweets that connected 5g wireless towers to the spread of the disease. both are false narratives, researchers say, are aimed at dividing americans. meanwhile, china has recently launched new twitter accounts to strengthen its offensive to control the narrative and spread the false conspiracy theory that the virus started in a u.s. government lab. joining our conversation, msnbc political analyst and former undersecretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs rick stengel. he's also former managing editor for "time" magazine and the author of "information wars: how we lost the global battle against disinformation and what we can do about it." rick, it's in the capacity of that last role, the author of information wars, that i want to ask you about disinformation about coronavirus. i know we shouldn't be surprised at this point, but it's deeply disturbing. >> yes. the funny thing is, nicolle -- it's actually not funny at

all -- is that a pandemic is the perfect petri dish for disinformation where people feel secure, powerless, where they don't have the knowledge that they need, that's a ripe situation for conspiracy theories. that carnegie mellon study shows that people are receptive to this stuff because they don't know about it, and that's one of the things that's so pernicious about donald trump whom i call the disinformationist in chief in the book. he is echoing these things, so he's not only echoing conspiracy theories but then the conspiracy theorists and the bots echo the disinformation and misinformation that he's giving out there. it's kind of a terrible combination of things and it makes people even more insecure. >> you know, i want to ask you why the social media companies don't have more power and authority at a time when it's a

health crisis. i understand in the context of an american political election you've got free speech to navigate, but what is the right to spread lies about a deadly pandemic? where is that? >> i think it's a much easier call, as you suggest. political speech is complicated. the first amendment protects it. the first amendment doesn't protect false speech about a virus or false speech that endangers the health of your users. by the way, facebook and twitter have been taking things down, but they need to be even more vigilant about it and google needs to be even more vigilant about what they prioritize in their search results. they need to prioritize factual information in their search results rather than emotional and inflammatory conspiracy theories that get people's eyes. part of the problem as some people have noted is that while the russians and the chinese and others are good at creating emotional speech that people will follow, the cdc is not good at that.

the world health organization is not good at that. they're still putting out press releases for doctors and reporters. they need to get better at it. as you say, the social media companies need to become much more vigilant about taking the bad stuff down and prioritizing the correct and informative stuff. >> you could already see just listening to you talk, what would you do with donald trump's recommendation that we look at having people inject bleach into their veins? what would you do with him recommending something our own government's fda calls deadly, taking hydroxychloroquine outside of a hospital. you've got, as you said, our president falling in the category of the kinds of things we would want them to take down. that seems to be setting up a showdown now. >> we've been talking about this for a long time, obviously since he's been in office, and i'm not an editor anymore but i think all the time about what i would do if i was an editor. certainly when the president of the united states makes a statement, even a false one,

that is news. what's not news is to repeat it over and over. it might be like, okay, i'm going to put on msnbc, yes, the president said to use this drug that is not verified and that might be dangerous, but then i'm not going to repeat it over and over. i'm not going to put it on again at every news cycle and put it out there in a way that people hear it. i've cited before the thorson t repeat false information, it embeds it in the person's ear so that even by saying trump said this and it's false, they're learning about something that they didn't know already. i think as journalists we have to be super, super careful about that, about not repeating the disinformation. >> it's such a good point and it's your own version of a tease. i feel like this is a conversation you and i could have had for the whole hour. let's try to do that one of these days, rick stengel. >> absolutely.

>> thanks for spending time with us today. when we return, new developments in the race of a vaccine and new concerns about the push by the white house to find one. house to find one was that your grandfather,

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we switched to new tide plus downy free. it's gentle on her skin, and dermatologist recommended. new tide pods plus downy free. safe for sensitive skin with eczema and psoriasis. the u.s. government announced an investment today of $1 billion for a coronavirus vaccine that has shown promise in small studies. swedish drug maker astrazeneca in collaboration with the university of oxford is accelerating manufacturing to deliver a vaccine by october and initially supply at least 400 million doses. experts say the race for a vaccine politicized by donald trump's operation warp speed and calls for 300 million doses by january is cause for concern, and vaccine mistakes of the past should be taken more seriously. nbc news senior international correspondent, keir simmons, speak with a researcher behind the oxford vaccine and he joins

us now from london. keir, i've been waiting all hour for something good. tell me the good and tell me the tricky and complicated side of this story. >> reporter: it's kind of good and bad, nicolle, really. this is professor adrian hill, one of the lead researchers at oxford university where they've been developing this promising vaccine. i would think it's fair to say just having spoken to him, i would describe him as both stunned and elated because this tie-up with astrazeneca and this investment from the american government, a billion dollars, a billion vaccines planned to be made before the end of 2021, 400 million by the end of this year, and that is exactly what he wanted. i've been speaking to him, nicolle, over a period of months and he was saying again and again, even though we don't know whether this vaccine is going to work yet, we need to get the manufacturing going because that takes so long if you do get the tests right.

but that's the question, will it really work. there have been these trials with monkeys that have had positive results but not completely positive. now they're testing in around 1,000 people here in the uk. i think you can expect those tests to be expanded, but he himself says that while they are very hopeful for this vaccine which attaches itself to the common cold and enters the body that way, they change, manipulate the common cold virus, even though that's true, he says, look, vaccines are a tricky thing to try to develop and you've got to be cautious. just one example, nicolle, what they are doing is testing and seeing what the effect is of this vaccine on people here in the uk, but of course as the amount of virus here goes down, they're less likely to get infected. you can imagine that lengthens the timeline, makes it more questionable how soon they'll be able to deliver this. >> what role does politics play?

at least in our debate here the president has made a push for accelerating the pace of testing so fast that a doctor i talked to yesterday, dr. hotes, said there is a pretty noisy and vibrant anti-vax coalition in america and he worries that will bring them out and make them advocates against the vaccine. >> reporter: yeah, warp speed is not a description that necessarily sounds very scientific. it definitely sounds political, but of course the problem is this is science. just to give you an example, if you're going to give this vaccine to billions of people, then the risks of the vaccine that it might have adverse effects increase, so you've got to make sure you absolutely get that right and there have been examples in the past of that having been gotten wrong. i'll tell you something, just talking to professor hill, he said to me nobody should relax the safety precautions that they're taking, the social

distance. don't risk getting this virus because you think there might be a vaccine coming down the line. be safe and wait for the science to get there. the truth is -- and everyone i speak to will accept this -- that there may never be a vaccine. that is the truth. it's just science. they may not manage to reach that point where they get the science right. so in the end what we have now is the social distancing approach, and that is what even somebody who is leading an this vaccine research says we need to stick to. >> it is so interesting. we're all learning about the limits of science and the importance of the low tech things that we can do. you're right, social distancing and masks are here to stay. keir simmons, it's always great to see you. thank you for spending some time with us, my friend. >> you bet. coming up, donald trump continues to reject science as

well as local health regulations. "deadline: white house," next. lh regulations. "deadline: white house," next.

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hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. donald trump in michigan at this hour refusing to wear a mask, openly defying public pleas from that state's elected leaders, rebuffing the policy of the ford plant he's visiting which says everyone there should wear a mask. trump's rejection of science and local public health regulations,

a microcosm of the confusion and defiance gripping our country today as fears rise over emerging hot spots and a second wave of infections as states move to lift restrictions and open their economies ahead of meeting public health benchmarks. t"the washington post" today reports on new warnings of an imminent wave in the south and writes, dallas, houston, southeast florida's gold coast, the entire state of alabama and several other places in the south that have been rapidly re-opening their economies are in danger of a second wave of coronavirus infections over the next four weeks. that reporting comes from a research team that uses cell phone data to track the trajectory of the outbreak, but the "post" also describes dire warnings from within trump's own administration. dr. anthony fauci weighing in, saying he has, quote, no doubt there will be new waves of cases. quote, the virus is not going to disappear, he said in an interview, referencing trump's repeated claims that it will.

and a presentation prepared by the department of health and human services and fema, trump's own agencies, suggest new waves could be steep enough in some places to overwhelm ventilator capacity. those warnings come on the heels of a sobering new report from columbia university which underscores the stakes of every move and decision made by state and federal leaders during this historic, once in a century pandemic. that report says 36,000 lives would have been saved if the u.s. had started social distancing just one week sooner. of course, hindsight is always 20/20, and many state leaders struggled at the time with uncertainty about how and when to close their states down, especially without detailed guidance coming from the federal government or reliable information coming from the president. but trump isn't taking responsibility for any of it or showing any signs ha he hthat h anything differently even with the benefit of hindsight. here's his response this

afternoon. >> columbia university put out a report in "the new york times" today that 36,000 people would have been saved if you guys did social distancing measures just one week earlier. do you believe that? what's your reaction to that? >> i was so early, earlier than anybody thought. i put on a ban on people coming from china. everybody fought me on that. they didn't want it. nancy pelosi a month later was dancing in the streets of san francisco in china town so that people wouldn't believe what's happening. i don't even blame that, but i was way early. columbia's an institution that's very liberal. i think it's just a political hit job if you want to know the truth. >> and it's those kinds of misleading statements about early steps to contain the virus and those kinds of attacks, repeated attacks, on science that have created the chaos and confusion and inconsistency that's now come to define donald trump's response and that's now in real time risking even more

unnecessary loss of life. the devastation doesn't stop there. today the economic toll on full display with 2.4 million new jobless claims added last week bringing the total during covid to nearly 40 million. on the cover of today's "new york post," a desperate plea, the president sowing division and confusion as the country grapples with twin calamities of covid and economic despair is where we start today. dr. leana wen who previously served as baltimore's health commissioner is here with us, plus from "the washington post," white house reporter ashley parker, and pulitzer prize winning columnist, eugene robinson. dr. wen, let me start with you. i live in new york and that columbia study just landed like a punch in the gut that so many thousands of lives could have been spared if social distancing had been put in place earlier. plenty of blame to go around and less interest in that than i am in how you think it should

inform our decisions moving forward. >> nicolle, so often we talk about the cost of our actions as in the cost of our actions on unemployment, on job loss, and of course we should be aware of that, but we also have to be aware of the cost of inaction, of waiting. we know that social distancing works when it's applied early, consistently, aggressively. we also know that it's worked in other countries to rein in the infection, and now we're seeing through the study what happens as a result of our waiting, of our having this piecemeal approach. to your point, nicolle, i want us to look forward and say what can we learn from this. what we can learn is that when we relax these guidelines again and start to re-open, that as dr. fauci has been saying, we are going to see a new wave, a resurgence even before the fall. the question is, do we have the early warning systems in play so that we can know when it is that this is occurring that requires

of course for us to have adequate testing but also, can we prepare now. this is not the time for us to be complacent or let down our guard. shame on us that we didn't know before, but really shame on us now if we know that the second wave is going to come and we do not have the supplies in place. we need to be preparing our hospitals for a potential surge again. we need to get ventilator capacity. we need to make sure we do not run out of masks and personal equipment, and we have to be preparing the american people to that if there is a second wave we need to dial back and reimpose these shelter in place orders because they do, in fact, save lives. >> do you worry, dr. wen, that people won't heed a second stay-at-home order, that they'll say, forget it, i did that once and this thing is back, i'm not going home this time? >> yeah, i do, especially because our messaging to date has not been consistent about this. people already are misunderstanding what re-opening means.

it sounds like, oh, we're re-opening, everything is fine, we can go about life as normal, when, in fact, nothing has changed about this virus. this is still just as contagious as ever. i do worry that the first time around we did waste a lot of time. we did not get the testing, tracing, isolation capacities that we should have by now, and as a result of waiting, there will not be the appetite to do all of this all over, and people will, i think rightfully, wonder did all the sacrifices that we made before, was that all in vain and why should we be doing this again? >> ashley parker, i quoted from your newspaper's reporting about what you guys describe as a, quote, imminent second wave in the south. dallas, houston, southeast florida's gold coast, the entire state of alabama, they are all the places that we've covered day after day. we've had live shots from those states as they re-open in-person

dining, indoor dining rooms. i think it's georgia that opened tattoo parlors, barber shops. where is the conversation or is there a conversation at the white house about how to support -- we know the president is often more focused or more intent on supporting places where he views them to be his people. is the president at all renewed in his attention toward this imminent place of possible new spikes or hot spots? >> the president in general does not like to focus on the potential second wave outbreaks and the negativity. you've heard some of that magical thinking from him. there are people in his administration who are talking about -- they're not looking at -- we know the president has been particularly amenable to red state governors for instance, states that have voted for him, but in his orbit people aren't dividing it up like that but they are talking about that

they are hoping that they would be better prepared if there is an outbreak. i was talking to someone just yesterday who was saying, look, we're not wildly optimistic or im practically optimistic. we understand that as we start to re-open there will be surges and flare-ups. they think a lot of the country is ready and they claim that they will be better prepared this time to handle those flare-ups. they will have the ppe and the contact tracing and the national testing. that said, there is no evidence that that is what they have in place on a national scale. they did not have this when the outbreak started. they're certainly working towards getting better prepared. the president always like to site that nobody died for a lack of a ventilator, but if something were to flare up and they did not have the ability -- and again, we've seen no indication that they have this ability, nor frankly, indication that they wouldn't necessarily succeed, but it could spread like wildfire again and we could be, as the president's own public health officials have

warned, back in the exact same situation, but as you were saying, even worse because a second freeze of the economy would be far worse than this for consumer confidence, for the way the public will behave for a second set of stay-at-home orders and that's the real challenge as we find ourselves at this tippingeugene, we put u picture of donald trump at this ford plant. everyone has a mask on as far as i can see. yes, every person wearing a mask except donald trump. i think it's "the washington post" that's reported that he said that he would, quote, look ridiculous in one. can you weigh in on dr. fauci saying he has, quote, no doubt of a new wave of cases, also saying the virus is not going to disappear, and donald trump describing the death toll as a badge of honor. where are we, eugene, with this president? >> we're in a lot of trouble,

nicolle. we've been in trouble for some time, but we're in a lot of trouble. look, you know, it struck me the president's reaction to that columbia university study about the extra deaths that were caused and the fact that -- i thought back. there was once upon a time a republican president, no flaming liberal, dwight eisenhower, who actually served for a time as president of columbia university. it was back when the republican party believed in science and did not believe in stupid. right now it's the reverse. we have a republican president who thinks that science that he finds inconvenient or counter to his political aims is not real science and he doesn't believe in it and he rejects it so he

rejects the scientists from one of the nation's great universities. he's going to continue to do this, so once again, despite warnings, despite pleas, he goes into a ford plant without a mask, unaware or uncaring that it's not so much that he might get the disease or catch the virus while he's there, it's that he might spread it and give it to others. that's why you wear a mask. you wear a mask to protect the community. he cares nothing about protecting the community. he cares nothing about protecting the workers in that plant. i hope they sanitize all the areas that he walks through after he's come through because he's talking and breathing and spreading droplets and we have no way of knowing if he's spreading the virus. it's just -- it's astounding, and so as these inevitable

flare-ups occur and let's hope it doesn't turn into a whole second wave but as these flare-ups occur and governors have to try to put restrictions back on and i think even governors like kemp and desantis might find themselves in that position, they'll be working against the model that's being given to the nation and to their political supporters by the president of the united states. it's shocking. it's unacceptable. but this is where we are. >> dr. wen, can you pick up a thread that eugene just raised, that a doctor on in the last hour said that the tests being used at the white house isn't 100% reliable, that there are some false negatives and donald trump made a big to do, a little bit of a word salad in calling his negative positive but i think the news out of that was that he had tested negative for

covid-19 again today before he departed for the ford plant. pick up on eugene's thread. is it possible that that's wrong? is it possible that having been exposed to someone -- and we haven't heard much lately about whether or not there are any additional infections inside the west wing or inside the residence of the white house. we certainly hope there are not, but do you think the president could have a false sense of security from that rapid test? >> absolutely. and actually, i think the president needs to be following better public health protocols all around and not even better health protocols but the public health protocols as recommended by the cdc. if somebody has a known exposure to an individual who has close contact with them, they should be not only wearing a mask and practicing good hand hygiene, they should actually be in quarantine until such a time that it's not just until they test negative.

it's until a certain amount of time passes. so in case they did actually get the virus, they will not then infect others. i don't know the level of exposure that president trump had to his personal aid, to others around him who tested positive, but it seems that if he is so concerned that he's now taking daily tests, that that level of exposure is probably substantial enough that he should actually have been in self-quarantine. that's what we would offer -- that's the same advice we would give and the same guidance that we actually would require for all other americans, so why shouldn't the president be ab e abiding by this as well. this brings up the point that no one is immune from covid-19. this is a highly contagious disease. the nature of the disease has not changed and we each need to do our part to abide by good public health principles ourselves but we need the president to do that too. >> ashley, i've read some of the quotes in "the washington post" with dr. fauci.

he also expressed real concern with how donald trump has branded the hunt for a vaccine and obviously everybody is on the same side of the vaccine question. we all hope that there is a vaccine developed. this country contributed a billion dollars to the pursuit at oxford university. there's some concern from doctors and i first heard this from dr. peter hotes yesterday and i saw it in dr. fauci comments in "the washington post" where he says people don't understand that because when they hear operation warp speed they think, oh, my god, they're jumping over all these steps and they're going to put us at risk, fauci said. some real concern that even if they do develop a vaccine which would be a miracle, that people might be reluctant to take it because of concerns that maybe some of the safety concerns were skipped is what fauci seems to be saying.

>> that's compact exactly right. this is a potential misfire. operation warp speed, he meant it to imply that they're trying to get a vaccine as fast as humanly possible which is what they're doing but it's already taken hold within the anti-vaxer, anti-vaccine movement in the country that the speed sort of means that corners will be cut, safety precautions and all necessary health steps will not be taken and that sense of fear is magnified by the fact of what we see in public polling which is that the public does not believe they can trust the president on his handling of the coronavirus or on the information sharing. it's a striking number because there are some polls, even polls where people approve of the president at a higher rate, about 10% or so less trust his handling of the virus so you have a president who you don't trust. you don't trust what's coming out of the white house. you don't trust the federal government's handling and then there's this name that seems to

imply we're racing so fast that maybe we're going to fumble this. i want to follow up on that other thread too very briefly. in addition to the wearing the masks and the social distancing on the part of the president, it's so important because he is modeling poor public behavior. even if you believe that he knows he is negative and he can't pass it on, experts and modelers have been saying we're at this critical point where they don't know what to put in the equation because it depends on how people behave. when i leave my house and go into a restaurant or grocery store, do i wear a mask, do i make sure not to go out if i have a cough or a sniffle. do i stay six feet away. when you have a president who's not doing that it's reasonable to assume that his supporters, we'll see more people like those scenes in costco where someone said i'm not going to wear a mask and that will increase the chances of more outbreaks. >> it is such an interesting point, and ashley, the sort of

faith in those public health measures you can see. when he moved towards people, they moved away from him, i'm not sure not a personal sleight at all but trying to keep what we've all learned that six feet between the two of them. i think i can close my eyes and actually map out six feet these days. ashley parker, dr. lien eana we eugene robinson, thanks for starting us off. when we come back, a familiar theme has emerged. faking official government business for 2020 campaign rallies. we'll look at the political landscape with our panel. plus a new head of intelligence confirmed today by the senate but does it matter? new reporting today on how trump relies on gossip from the likes of golf players and casino owners instead of his briefings. and our friend donnie deutsch is back. we have missed him. we'll look at a new ad from a conservative group hoping to hit trump where it really hurts. all those stories coming up. rts. all those stories coming up. you truly transformative sleep.

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what do we know works from

other countries at this point if anything. what could we change now to emulate other countries best practices. are there things that we've got wrong? . a day after attacking michigan with a false claim that that state was illegally sending mail-in ballots to every voter, trump is there now and talked about whether he was wearing a mask or not. >> i had one on before. i wore one in this back area, but i didn't want to give the press the pleasure of seeing it. but i had it in the back. i did put a mask on. >> did you have goggles on as well, too, sir? >> i did. goggles and a mask. here's another one. >> why would you not be wearing it -- >> because in this area -- >> why would you not be wearing it in this area, sir? >> not necessary here. >> let that sink in. didn't want the press and the public to see him wearing a mask. always more obsessed with the press than his own voters who might have seen the president

they still support wearing a mask just like him. today's stop in michigan is the latest in a string of visits to battleground states for donald trump. in the last two weeks he's also traveled to plants in arizona and pennsylvania. "the washington post" reports it this way, quote, the president's trips in particular have taken on clear campaign overtones as he pushes for states to move yo beyond the pandemic and restart their economies despite continuing public health concerns and the rising death toll. supporters have lined the streets to greet his motorcade as they hold american flags and trump campaign signs, disregarding social distancing rules and outnumbering a smaller set of protestors. if there's any doubt he's using these visits to his political advantage, the music that played through the p.a. system at the medical equipment facility he visited in allentown last week gives the clue it was the trump campaign soundtrack. joining our conversation, "new york times" political reporter nick confessore and former aid in the george w. bush house and state department elise jordan is

back. nick, the president coming out and saying i didn't want to wear my mask in front of these gentlemen because i didn't want the press to see me in it seems to have the opposite understanding of the value of modeling good public health behavior. for the 23% of americans who still trust him for public health information. >> it's a very bad sign, nicolle, of how even this basic question of wearing a mask, a simple and painless thing we can all do to slow the risk of this pandemic spreading further, has become kind of wrapped up in a culture war. then in the president's mind it's a game between him and the media where he can't afford to give or be seen as weak if he capitulates. it would be better for him and the whole country if he showed what a strong leader can do and would just wear the mask. look, i wear a mask when i go outside. i hate wearing the mask. it's annoying. it stinks, but it's one of the simple things the whole country

can do or most of the country can do that doesn't require shutting down a business. so again, i think the bigger question is putting somebody at risk in the factory, but is he fanning this culture war over something that shouldn't be a culture war and doesn't need to be. >> elise, the bananas thing about it all is that if trump's goal is for everything to open up, the fastest way for everything to open up is for everybody to wear a mask and social distance, two things he doesn't seem willing to do. >> it's really just mind blowing and it's such a slap in the face to medical professionals across this country that are working night at day at great risk trying to thwart the pandemic and save lives and donald trump won't make a simple concession. cranes of detroit had an interesting poll towards wearing a mask and around 80% of

michiganders polled said let's do it. the only group not into it, older republican men, so donald trump is really living up to his demo right now by his defiance of not wearing a mask. i just really wish that for the sake of the country and setting an example, donald trump could step up and lead. but good lord, we just know that's not going to happen. >> nick, i want to ask you about some reporting that nbc has done about these factory tours actually putting some workers in some local areas at risk. i know and elise knows and anyone that's covered any white house knows that to move a president thousands of people are in motion. i've said this before, air force one moves, a back-up plane moves. marine one moves and a back-up helicopter moves. the motorcade that you see going through a town moves but there's a back-up motorcade and driving every car are local volunteers

and vans full of white house staff. nbc has reported that even though additional precautions have been undertaken by the white house, public health experts and aides in previous administrations warn that it's nearly impossible to eliminate all risk of exposure detour these trips. those who have planned similar trips for past presidents warn the massive footprints and the huge burden they place on local governments, many of which are already stretched thin because of the pandemic. nick? >> i think it's important to distinguish between these two questions of the immediate risk the president creates of furthering the spread of the virus and that question of displaced resources. every single president in the modern age has paired official trips as campaign events. that's part of the advantage of being the incumbent president. president trump is the first president to do so in a pandemic where there's actually a chance that the travel and organizing could create some additional risks. i think the smart thing for the

president is to think carefully about where he is going and hope flee flee he's not going to plan trips to hot spots where local governments and law enforcement are already strained. >> elise, he's also in a state that he accused yesterday of doing something that was such a big whopper of a lie that even the president took it down. he accused them of mailing out ballots. what they mailed out were applications for absentee ballots. our friend amy walter had a tweet saying he's not against all mail-in voting, just trying to call into question six months out the legitimacy of the result in november by questioning mail-in ballots from places where he doesn't think he's going to do very well. >> nicolle, i think you really point out what a big lie it is, the fact that he actually took a tweet down is just, wow, that's quite an accomplishment and something that does not happen too often. really, if i'm donald trump, i wouldn't want to antagonize the

state of michigan right now. he only won by a teeny, teeny margin of around 10,000 votes, and he's attacking the state officials that are popular right now. is that really the way to go, threatening the vote of citizens in the state that had 5,000 deaths from coronavirus and voters might be legitimately scared to go to the polls and want to exercise their right to vote by mail. is that really the best way to go to win over the state of michigan? i don't think so. let's watch donald trump and see if he can repeat his narrow victory again. >> it would be hard, you would think, for him to go to a state like michigan, as you said, that he woonly won by 10,000 votes a try to discourage anyone from voting. you would think he would want all the people that voted for him last time to be able to vote

for him again no matter how. so it doesn't add up in any plane. nick, elise, thank you both for spending some time with us. after the break, the lengths to which donald trump's intelligence team must go just to get him to pay attention to his intel briefings. new reporting from "the new york times" provides a very rare look behind those closed doors, next. . our homes. overnight, they became our offices, schools and playgrounds. all those places out there

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donald trump rarely lets facts get in the way of what he considers truthy enough. he seems to live in his own reality where true and false are products of his personal world view. it's a phenomenon that presents an added degree of difficulty to his intelligence briefers. remember trump has attempted to deflect blame over his lackluster coronavirus response by throwing the entire intelligence community under the bus, insisting that his daily briefings failed to properly sound the alarm. today brand new reporting in

"the new york times" sheds new light onto what exactly trump is like in those sessions. quote, mr. trump rarely absorbs information that he disagrees with or that runs counter to his world view, the official said. briefing him to be so great a challenge compared to his predecessors that the intelligence agencies have hired outside consultants to better study how to bring information to him. let's bring in adam goldman. this is a fascinating account and you and your colleague, julian barnes, have had previous glimpses into how different intelligence officials and leaders have tried to get him to pay attention and/or believe what the intelligence community is communicating. this is the story of him blaming one specific individual for what she did not tell him. tell us about that and the gentle effort to push back. >> well, i think my colleague,

julian barnes and i, had been working on a story about donald trump and his briefings with the intelligence community, specifically the president's daily briefing he gets when trump himself and when his administration through this analyst, this woman under the bus saying that she underplayed this in this january 23 briefing. that struck us as extraordinary because on the one hand he's saying the intel community doesn't sound the alarm soon enough but on the other hand we're being told that the national security staff and others and the reporting done by "the washington post" and "new york times" and everybody else, "the wall street journal," that that reporting itself had sounded the alarm. so these are two incon grewous

things. how can you blame the intelligence community when there's all this reporting about how bad this could be. that was a vehicle to let us explore how, in fact, he receives his briefings. >> i want you to take us inside this reporting. her name is beth saner, and you guys detail how exactly she gets him to pay attention and i don't mean this in a snarky way but she's relying on the same things that i as a home school second grade picture teacher uses. pictures, graphs, photos just to get him to pay attention? >> what the intelligence community has understood is the way trump likes to receive briefings as through verbal briefing. he's the opposite of obama. obama used to read the pdb, the president's daily brief, and if he had questions he would bring the briefer in or others. trump, he doesn't read so they

needed to figure out a way to get him to take this information seriously and to keep him on point and let him understand that there are some things he needs to know even though you really don't care about them. i think that beth and her predecessor, ted, have gone to great lengths to establish a rapport with the president and build trust with them. i think -- my understanding, i think it's been sincere and beth, the woman who currently provides the president his brief now, is charming and very expressive and is willing to engage in back and forth with the president and i think he likes that. they have worked incredibly hard to try to keep the president's attention because this is extraordinarily important to the

country what the president knows and how he receives his information. >> adam, can you just, for our viewers who don't follow the intelligence community as closely as you do, what is the truth? the intelligence community did warn the president both about the lethal nature of covid-19 and that it was coming for the u.s. as early as january, right? >> well, we haven't seen the exact language that was used in that january 23 briefing. what we know and what we reported is that trump says it was downplayed, it was downplayed by his briefer who represents the ic, the intelligence community. so whatever is being funneled up through the intelligence community reaches beth and beth decides how to communicate that to the president. it will be interesting to see if we're able to see a record of what beth -- eventually will we be able to see what beth told

the president and how she conveyed that. there must be notes to that effect. >> i worked in the white house obviously on 9/11 and the pdb was of great interest to democrats in congress and to the public, what did the president know and when did he know about bin laden. do you think it will be similar to find out what the president knew and when he knew about covid? >> i think so. you would like to think, hopefully it won't be 50 years from now when it's been declassified. i think, listen, i think the public deserves to know what happened here and whether it had been a republican or democrat in the white house who was overseeing this effort, the public would want to know. we could only hope either through additional reporting by

"the new york times" or other reputable news outlets, we will get to the truth. >> we're hoping to. adam goldman, to you and your colleague, great reporting. thank you for talking about it. after the break, the bold new strategy for some of donald trump's political opponents giving him a taste of his own medicine. that's next. a taste of his own medicine that's next. (soft music)

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that was another ad by the republican-led super pac, the lincoln project, hitting trump where they're pretty sure it will hurt. one, putting the spotlight on someone else, and two, capitalizing on the already tense relationship between donald trump and his campaign

manager. the details of a meeting where trump reportedly yelled at brad par chal over poll numbers during the pandemic were leak to everybody. james carville called him a grifter and it hit a nerve with the president. joining us, our friend, donnie deutsch, but most importantly, one of the dearest friends of the show. donnie, i miss you. how are you, my friend? we'll talk about the ad in a second. >> good, darling. i'm quarantined here in new york, hunkered down. you know, it's surreal what's going on here. we're doing good. my family is good. thank you for asking. you and liam and everybody good over there? >> everybody's good. we're all mask wearers. nick confessore was talking about the culture war that donald trump is trying to stoke with his base, but it's funny in new york people want to get out of their houses, they want to go

back to work, back to the park, back to gyms and restaurants and back on the subway so everybody i see is wearing a mask. what are you seeing over there? >> 100% in masks which makes it even more reprehensible that donald trump doesn't care about any other human being other than himself. the other piece you did, i just was throwing things at the tv. >> i'm glad it's not just me. i want to ask you about michael cohen because he just got out of jail but i want to ask you about this ad he played. brad parscale is not a household name and our friends are not trying to make him one. i want to ask you about an ad strategy designed by one human being which is my sense of what this ad is. this is made for donald trump. explain that. >> you nailed it. this is an audience of one. look, there's two kinds of political advertising. you see what the lincoln group did a few weeks back, brilliant,

"good morning america," that's an overarching theme and then there's political warfare. steve madden was on the cover of "time" magazine and he was gone a week later. we all know donald trump does not like anybody in his circle that gets attention. so it's fascinating. what the lincoln group is trying to do is do an internal campaign kind of like let's mess their stuff up. parscale was very good in 2018 so let's do everything we can and throw a molotov cocktail in there. all the president's men, parscale looks sinister. put mcconnell in there, jared kushner in there, these unappealing human beings and saying beyond four more years of trump, you want four more years

of this cast of nefarious characters? >> that's such a good point. they don't look better the wider the curtain is drawn. i want to ask you about your friend michael cohen though. you've been in contact with him. he's recently released from prison. what's his state of mind about donald trump? things have gotten worse. many of his predictions when he testified before congress have more than come true. they've been proven over and over again in all the patterns of trump's presidency. >> the scariest prediction has not happened yet but every bone in my body tells me that's going to come election time. even before the pandemic, if he loses, he is going to destroy the credibility of this election. you see him doing it with mail-in ballots already. i spoke to michael a few minutes after he got home this morning. his words were, i'm hurting. in the last 35 days he was actually in solitary confinement, in his cell for 23 hours and 45 minutes a day, most

of this time because of covid. he is a shaken, shaken man but thrilled to be home. his wife read about it yesterday. they did not know this was happening obviously in the way that the department of work. but michael wanted me to say he's doing fine, in a few days he'll have something to say, but it was a rough, rough go for that young man. >> do you expect him to be a voice warning people not to vote for four more years of donald trump in november? >> yeah, you know, michael has got to be -- if i was advising michael, i would say a little less is more. right now, the boogie man, the thing to take donald trump down is stunningly poor performance of the virus. and by the way, he cost lives. where you started the show as far as the columbia study that showed had he acted a week earlier would save 33,000 lives. donald trump's absolute failure protecting the country is the

message. michael cohen will be side noise. we have heard michael cohen's story, you'll hear more of it, but we're past that. he is the least of donald trump's problems right now. >> so i think you're absolutely right, but i think the idea that knowing him as well as you do, understanding the tectonic plates underneath our politics, this will be a referendum. incumbent presidents are always running against this, but it is a referendum on your presidency. you're right. great to see you, my friend. thanks for coming back in rotation. >> good to see you. thank you. >> i miss you. after the break, a white house butler, bakery owner celebrating lives well lived next. celebrating lives well lived next ♪ y'all know what this is ♪ good lovin', no questions ♪

♪ reach out and you'll touch me ♪ ♪ bad habits, don't judge me ♪ just don't waste my time ♪ ♪ good lovin', no questions, baby ♪ ♪ reach out and you'll touch me ♪ ♪ bad habits, don't judge me ♪ just don't waste my time ♪

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in all of american history, how many people can say they worked for a president? what about more than one president? how about 11 american presidents, with uncanny grace and supreme kindness, wilson roosevelt german did just that. we're celebrating his life today. he died last weekend from coronavirus. hired into the eisenhower administration as a cleaner in 1957, he was promoted to butler under john f. kennedy, thanks to a personal recommendation from jackie o herself. then the rest is history. german's position at the white house stretched across seven different decades. his granddaughter says it is all because of the kind of person he was. wilson was authentic. he was himself. president george w. bush and laura bush had another word for him. said this. quote. he was a lovely man, they told nbc news. he was the first person we saw in the morning when we left the residence and the last person we

saw each night when we returned. he leaves behind five children, 12 grandchildren, 18 great grandchildren. we also want to remember hat see i can't say coach a. another unfortunate victim of coronavirus. she and her husband opened a bakery in san francisco in 1974. for so long, the sweetest thing wasn't on the menu, it was her heartwarming smile welcoming customers, many she knew by name. she overcame internment camp as a child in world war ii and lung cancer more recently but her strength and courage kept her going. her daughters told nbc station in the san francisco bay area the sweet shop was a way to give back to those she cared about most. like so many other businesses, the family's bakery had to close down when the shelter at home orders first went into effect. here's good news. as of today, they're back open,

now under management of one of her grandchildren. that does it for our hour. thank you so much for letting us in your homes during these extraordinary times. our coverage continues with my colleague, chuck todd, right after a quick break. chuck toddt after a quick break. like way more vanities perfect for you. nice. way more unique fixtures and tiles. pairing. ♪ nice. way more top brands in sinks and faucets. way more ways to rule your renovation. nice! on any budget, with free shipping. wayfair. way more than furniture.

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♪ welcome to thursday. it is "mtp daily." i am chuck todd, continuing nbc's coverage of the coronavirus pandemic. as we mentioned top of the show yesterday, over the last month all 50 states have officially begun to ease restrictions, some more quickly than others. every state is vowing to open to some degree. the biggest question hanging over every one of them, over the governor and the federal government, is whether or not it is safe to open the valve from a public health standpoint