of what people are searching, it's moved on from questions of, how do i get sick, what are the symptoms, to the economic fallout. where do i get a job? how long will this last? what's going to be the effect on my retirement plan that i have? that's natural, right? you see unemployment now looking like it is going to hit 20% to 25%. you see lots of people who had jobs who don't have jobs. you see a lot of households, you know, almost half saying they have less income today than they did three months ago. very natural. i think it is also confusing for your average person, who is not marinating in the news, when they see the stock market continuing to go up and, yet, they see their friends out of work. they see restaurants closed. they're trying to make sense of it, so they're searching for answers. >> all right. jim vandehei, stand by. we're going to see you at the top of "morning joe." appreciate it, my friend. i'll be reading axios am in a little while.

si signup.axios.com. that does it for me on this friday morning. i'm yasmin vossoughian. "morning joe" starts right now. i had a two-week regimen of hydroxychloroquine. i've taken it, i think, about two weeks, i think another day, and i'm still here. i'm still here. >> are you taking -- >> and i tested very positively in another sense this morning. i tested positively toward negative, right? no, i tested perfectly this morning, meaning i tested negative. >> have you taken the antibody test yet? >> that's a way of saying it, positively toward the negative. >> all right. good morning -- >> i tested positive in a negative -- >> right. >> -- sense. >> welcome to "morning joe." >> he got there. >> right, it took a little while. >> along with joe, willie, and me, we start things off with the co founder and ceo of "axios,"

jim vandehei. >> can we also say about that, so he stopped the hydroxychloroquine. he's, you know -- willie, he is keeping up with the latest medical trends here. word is, by memorial day, he'll stop having the doctors apply the leeches, as well. >> oh. >> moving from the dark ages. >> you swear by those, joe. >> into the age of enlightenment. >> still. >> i still swear by them. still do. exactly. >> wearing them as we speak. >> also, asbestos baths. they clear the system. >> okay. coming up, we're going to be talking about some developments, joe, pertaining to china, that don't bode well to our relationship with china. >> well, you know, it is bad news for just about everybody. of course, it's bad news for the people of hong kong, who are watching their democracy, not chipped away bit by bit, but

what xi did yesterday was basically dee declare by fiat they can go in and crush protesters. all the promises of 1999 have been swept away. you know, willie, richard haass is going to be with us in a few minutes, but what's so confounding here, and we'll get to a new fox news poll, by the way, on the president. i want to talk about this off the top because we'll be talking about this much longer than polls in the coming six months to a year. but this is, yes, bad news for hong kong. it is very bad news for president trump, who has said very kind things about president xi through the years. and desperately wants his trade deal with president xi to work. but it's also bad for china. yesterday, you know, they, for the first time, refused to project forward their gdp for the next year.

they have the worst economic downturn since the 1970s. hong kong was a bright spot. as you know, we all know, a global economic center. now, even that is risked. xi, again, his totalitarian instincts have been wrong every step of the way. certainly since this virus began. now, he uses the heavy hand once again. stocks tumble 6% overnight in asia. you just wonder what hong kong's future is going to be as a global trading center. if china is -- imposes its totalitarian rules there, then kiss hong kong good-bye, as well. >> yeah. we saw over the last year those inspiring pro-democracy protests, those marches, by the millions through the streets of hong kong. what happened yesterday was, president xi came out publicly

and explicitly and said, no more. they're cracking down. they are going to go in in a way they didn't. they were careful on the world stage not to fight against the p protesters. president xi said, the days are over. we put the virus behind us, the one that originated in our country, and we are ready to move on. this is an america and world's problem now. we're past the virus, he declared, and we're ready to step back into the fight against hong kong, make sure it doesn't succeed. >>minutes, richard haass will join us to discuss this issue. now to politics. joe biden leading president trump in the latest fox news poll. biden sits at 48%, up six points since last month. trump is at 40%, down two. >> wow. >> there is a 27-point gender gap between the two, with trump leading by seven points among

men, while biden is up 20 points among women. widen also has a 64-point lead among african-american voters, and trump trails biden by 15 points among voters under 45 and by three among voters 45 and older. biden is also up 17 points among voters 65 and older, a group the president won by seven points in 2016. now, when voters were asked who would do a better job handling the economy, trump narrowly leads biden, 45% to 42%. biden leads the president on the question of who would better handle relations with china, the coronavirus, health care, and women's rights. >> you know, jim vandehei, you look at all these numbers. first of all, this poll seems a little more in line with where things are than the q poll. 8 points instead of 11 points. regardless, in all of these

polls, of course, we look at trends. we don't look at individual polls. certainly, the trend line is very bad for donald trump, and very good for joe biden. this poll, like yesterday's poll, three things actually stick out to me. one, over 65 voters who went for donald trump, joe biden winning them in a landslide right now. again, this is all very predictable. we've all been predicting it because donald trump has basically dismissed health care concerns of senior citizens with a lot of his pronouncements. also, you look at the handling of the coronavirus. it is going to be with us through the fall. that's still going to be extraordinarily relevant. donald trump has gotten just about everything wrong on it, if you look at his statements going back to january. joe biden has been right. the one i want to circle is, for me, it's health care. this is the issue, as you know, that drove voters in 2018.

donald trump is talking about abolishing the affordable care act. he has nothing to replace it. health care, especially in the age of a pandemic, is so important. biden wins easily in poll after poll after poll on health care. so you add up health care, coronavirus, and seniors, man, it's a pretty big hill for donald trump to climb, even though we're only in may. >> it is. i'll sort of put an asterisk on it. the biden campaign would say, who cares what a national poll shows. what matters is what's happening in wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, arizona, texas, georgia, florida, the states that are potentially winnable by either side. even there, there's problems for donald trump. when you see places like georgia and texas and florida, being closer than they probably should be, given the demographics of those states and given the economy heading into the coronavirus, i think that's

probably what should worry the trump campaign the most. and you nailed it on the numbers. if it were him, i'd be worried about, and health care is under that, people think you're doing a lousy job dealing with the coronavirus, which is the epic topic of our generation. like, that's a killer for him. you go back a month or two, and most people had a favorable view of how he was handling it. the reason that that matters is that's where swing voters, that's where suburban moms who voted for him last time, where he could lose them. if they feel it is hurting their health, they feel it is hurting their health care, that's where people who voted for him last time tip against him. >> yeah, the suburban moms, the higher educated voters, all the people that, willie, may have been split more in the suburbs and other demographic groups in 2016, now moving against donald trump aggressively in 2017 in virginia, 2018 in the off year congressional elections, 2019 in

governors' races, where democrats are winning in the deep south. and you look. i'll give you four states right now. if i'm in the trump campaign, i'm petrified by pennsylvania. i'm sorry, joe biden on the strength of -- i mean, i'm not saying it is over, but you look at scranton media market, one of the bigger media markets, republican media market, but it is breaking hard for joe biden. you combine that with the philly suburbs, i don't see donald trump winning pennsylvania this year. i just don't see it happening. save the tape. i could be wrong. michigan, many people think that michigan, in trump's own campaign, they fear it is close to being gone. he goes there yesterday. he can't do anything straight. he doesn't wear a mask. all right. yeah, the guys riding around with, you know, ar-15s think he is really cool. all the suburban, like, women, higher educated people that voted republican before break.

that hurts there. then you look at the seniors. florida and arizona, those states are so much -- trending so much better for biden than they should be at this point because of 65 and olders. up north, pennsylvania and michigan. in the sunbelt, florida and arizona. again, only may. it's not like this guy is getting better by the day. he keeps getting worse politically. >> yeah. as you've rightly said, it is a national poll. we don't vote in a national referend referendum, and it is only may. anything the last three months have taught us, everything can change in a short time. this fox news poll, a poll he used to lean on, not so much anymore, tells the story of a president in trouble, today. approaching memorial day weekend. another piece of think thought was interesting in the fox news poll, the president reluctant to wear a mask.

he wore it briefly yesterday at the ford plant. the people carrying ar-15s are a small group, we know, protesting around michigan and the capitol. 84% of americans in this poll say they wear the mask, either all time or most of the time or usually. it is a small percentage, 6%, 6% say they never wear the mask. 8% say rarely they wear the mask. why do i bring that up? the reason is, he is leaning into a very small demographic that is fighting and saying, "i will never wear a mask." people in viral videos are not representative of where the country is on these questions. as you say, suburban voters, people across michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, who he desperately needs to win, are still following the cdc rules. they're listening to people like dr. fauci, who this poll shows is vastly more popular than donald trump in the country still, despite the protests we see. the country is in one place, and the president of the united states keeps drilling down

further into another place where the voters are much smaller in numbers. >> i i couldn't sayed eused tog too much on a third of the electorate, the hard-core 33%. he moved that up to about 40% through economic success. now, he's drilling down to the 10%. the 10% who share dr. fauci conspiracy theories on facebook, and how disgusting that facebook allows those conspiracy theories to continue to churn. how disgusting. "new york times" article a couple days ago, going off a sidebar here, how disgusting that facebook allows those lies to circulate and have so many more people see those lies than -- see, like, even new taylor swift videos, just to talk about how big the lies

facebook allows donald trump to spread. then they take down a commercial because it offends him? why don't they just put trump 2020 on the front page of facebook? truly disgusting, despicable stuff that's happening. it is all on zuckerberg and sandberg's resume. they're allowing these lies, these vile lies to be spread. but, anyway, i digress. >> yeah. >> so those are the people, though, that donald trump is going for, the 10%, the 12%. the guys with ar-15s that go into the michigan state legislatu legislature. he is proud that those people are wearing trump signs. they're attacking and insulting law enforcement officers, screaming in their face. it's disgusting. but donald trump is looking at those people and focusing on them for some really bizarre

reason. when he does it, what's he doing? he's turning off so many voters that said, "what do i have to lose" in 2016. they listened to donald trump. he may be right, what do i have to learn? now, every day during this pandemic, donald trump has shown them, day in and day out, what they have to lose. as willie brought up yesterday in the ford plant, which we're going to talk about in a second, he did it again. he showed, he doesn't think the rules apply to him. he's going to be as arrogant as he wants to be. every doctor, every epidemiologist, every medical professional in america says to wear a mask. if not to protect yourself, to protect others. when he doesn't do that, because he doesn't think it is manly, or because he doesn't want the press -- i guess he said he didn't want the press to get a picture of him wearing a mask --

he sends a message to voters in michigan and across the country, "i don't give a dam about you." >> that's right. >> in fact, donald trump says he doesn't give a damn about anybody but himself. >> you saw the secretary of state, mike pompeo wearing a mask. i know he likes to create distractions with these small controversies, but this is a much bigger one that i think he's given credit for. when he doesn't wear a mask, there are going to be people, there are going to be people even who are trump people and republicans, who believe it is important to wear a mask. president trump is exposed to people all day long. the tests that are taken at the white house sometimes don't work. there are going to be people who don't want to be near him because he won't wear a mask and, therefore, his germs and his droplets could impact them and give them the coronavirus. that is a real possibility. >> by the way it shall. >> that's a reality.

>> that's science. >> saying, i won't wear a mask, i won't wear a mask, well, at some point, he'll have to wear one. at some point, someone is not going to be around him. here he is without the mask. the ford people, bill ford personally asked him to wear one. he wore it privately and refused to wear it publicly. really childish. like, afraid to show this, president trump wearing a mask. is this weakness? no. this is president trump, for the first time in his life, being polite and responsible and keeping his droplets to himself. >> all right. >> this is the issue. >> let's -- >> this is not 6 feet. this is the problem. >> yeah. >> but here we go. let's move to china, which we had significant developments in the past 24 hours. china moved to exert stronger control over hong kong yesterday by imposing national security laws on the semi-independent

territory, after waiting nearly two decades for hong kong's government to enact them. according to the "new york times," hong kong's pro democracy movement was taken by surprise as they question how to take on the chinese communist party directly. bloomberg news framed china's move as a direct challenge to president trump. joining us is the president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. he is the author of the new book entitled "the world: a brief introduction." also with us for this, nbc news correspondent carol lee, live for us at the white house. >> richard, the "financial times" this morning called this the latest in a long series of setbacks for the rule of law and democratic development in the city. it's already dismal governments can only deteriorate further. hong kong's constitutional framework has collapsed. what do you say? >> when the british returned

hong kong, joe, in 1997, the idea was for half a century, 50 years, hong kong was to enjoy a special status. the whole theme was one country, two systems. what's happened dprgradually an with increasing acceleration the last few years s the special status of hong kong has been eroded and, effectively, has disappeared. the interesting question is why and why now? here, my own sense is a couple things are driving this. one is the economy in china has slowed down dramatically. for decades, the economy has been the principle source of political legitimacy by the communist par thinty there. i think they're nervous. there's criticism in china, sometimes open, about xi jinping's handling of the coronavirus outbreak. what does hong kong represent? hong kong represents, if you will, a different kind of virus to the chinese authorities. it's the virus of liberal

democracy. so my guess is they're cracking down. there's one more thing. the united states and the world are distracted, and the united states is increasingly seen by many in china as having switched its policy to becoming much more hostile toward china. my guess is the chinese figured this would send a shot across our bow. we're distracted. might send a message to taiwan. for any number of reasons, the chinese have essentially grown impatient on hong kong and are cracking down hard. >> so what should donald trump do at this point? he has a complicated relationship with president xi, obviously. he has praised him time and again over the past several years. in january, he praised him for his openness and transparency in the coronavirus pandemic. said the people of the united states thanked him. then he would, for a week, rail

on about the wuhan virus. then the next week, he would start praising president xi again. he seems to actually have a positive relationship. he's had a positive relationship with him over the past, but that's turned hostile of late. what's the next step for the president? what's the next step for the united states? what do we need to do as a country? >> publicly, we need to be critical of china on two themes. one is, obviously, what they're doing to human rights and political rights. the other is that this raises fundamental questions about china's willingness to keep its international agreements. why should we expect them to keep their agreements on trade? by the way, they often don't. congress will also act. hong kong enjoys a special economic and trade status. the whole idea is that we have unique ties to hong kong because it is independent, at least

separate from china. there is a distinction. if that distinction has been removed, i think you'll see the speaker, nancy pelosi, very quickly move to end hong kong's special economic status, which is not just an impact on hong kong but for the mainland, since hong kong is an important gateway to the rest of the country. then, what i would do if i were advising, is i would say, we need to take a step back. to use a phrase by a previous secretary of state, have something of an agonizing reappraisal of our policy toward china, and basically say, we're going to assess the trade relationship. we'll welcome at military and arms control questions and so forth. what i would not do though, and i would be a little careful, is i wouldn't use -- i wouldn't overreact in the sense of causing an all-out crisis, changing our relations, say, with taiwan. i would be forceful, but i would still be measured, i guess is

the way i'd put it. >> carol lee at the white house, the president, of course, bent over becomewarackwards in the e months of the pandemic to praise president xi. talked about his transparency and lauded china for the way they handled this. he's turned, obviously, in the last month or so and put the blame squarely on china, which, obviously, it deserves quite a bit of blame for what's happening around the world. how does the president now grapple with these announcements from president xi, this new posture out of china? >> reporter: well, he had a rather muted response to this yesterday, willie. he was asked about it, and he said, "we'll see what happens," which is a typical line that he throws out. he'll have a statement at the appropriate time. last night, the national security adviser was at the white house, speaking to reporters, and we asked him about this. he said that if china moves forward with this, america will respond. not only just america, but in concert with u.s. allies. now, he didn't go into detail on

exactly what that would mean, but he had a stronger position on this than the president so far. you know, one thing that you've hear in my conversations with the administration officials over the last couple of months is this concern that, while the u.s. is focused so intently on coronavirus, that america's adversaries, like russia and others like china, would try to take advantage of that time and do things like this. this is clearly -- as harshly and critical of china pause he was trying to do a trade deal at that time.

so he wants an arms treaty. he wants to criticize china, particularly on a campaign trail for its handling of coronavirus and shift the blame there. now, he has this to contend with. you can guarantee he'll be asked about this again today. >> carol, his singular obsession has seemed to be, over the past several months, getting that trade deal with china. he sees that as a real panacea, for all things related to china. is there a feeling among white house advisers that he may go easier on xi and that, in fact, he praised xi before during the coronavirus outbreak because of the trade deal? >> reporter: yeah. what you heard, joe, this week from the president is that the trade deal is not working out the way that he wanted it to. he said he is unhappy with the way china is behaving. he doesn't have as much confidence in that trade deal. so, you know, i think the way

that the president is so back and forth, in terms of where his public position is on china, whether he is embracing china or slapping china around, and at the same time, what we've seen is his advisers will be much more consistent and take a sort of different approach than he does, and put forward a policy that sometimes he even undermines. what i'm looking for is whether the national security council, national security advisers, what they say, what the state department says, and then what the president says. a lot of times he will praise china at times when his administration is not. this is a situation where we haven't seen him really want to hit china on hong kong in the past. >> all right. carol lee at the white house, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> jim vandehei, there are a few issues the trump campaign team have desperately tried to use. they were talking about hunter biden a couple months ago.

that appeared to be a desperate swing. it still is. now, they're trying to go after barack obama. that's not going to help him with black voters and a lot of other voters. china, they've talked about china but, again, it's just like suggesting that biden is old and doddering. you bring china up, and there are all of these quotes and all of these tweets, where donald trump is ahead of president xi's fan club. when you look at the fox news poll, joe biden is leading in just about every category, including he's got a comfortable six-point margin with relations with china. if donald trump is concerned about the trade deal, how aggressively does he go after china over hong kong?

>> he's always been kortu tureo this. internally, most people around him fear china and want to fight china. i think that's usually where his instinct is. he also loves his relationship with the head of china. it's always been contradictory because he is worried about the economic consequences. what richard haass said, this is our life for the next 20 years. there's probably no bigger topic. global warming right be. china will dominate our lives the next 20 years. they are a fast, fast, rising power, economically and in their reach around the world. this is not a one-off. they have been mischievous on many fronts for many years, whether it is trying to steal our technologies, bully u.s. companies, have trade deals that favor them and not us, take military action that is meant to provoke. whether it is biden or trump, this is a real deal. the consequences are super high because of the population size, because of their reach, because of the size of their economy.

you talk to a lot of people who spend time in china and come back here, they fear that we're like a stagnating world power, or even some would argue a declining world power, and china, even with the recent setbacks, is rapidly rising. so i do think this will define the next generation the way sort of our showdown with russia defined a lot of sort of my childhood and my early adulthood. so i don't know what trump will do in the short term. i don't think trump knows what trump will do in the short term. look what happened with the stock prices overnight. look how european allies are reacting. this is a really, really big story. >> all right. thank you so much, jim vandehei. >> thank you. >> greatly appreciate it. richard haass, we talked about china a couple weeks ago. let's just take a step back this morning. the reality is that whether we are friends or whether we are

enemies or whether it is a little bit of both, china and the united states are going to share the global stage together and rule the global stage together. dominate, not rule, but dominate the global stage together economically and militarily for the next 30 to 40 years. david ignatius this morning wrote a piece saying, "a move away from china means a move toward russia." but you look at gdp, you look at trade, you look at the economy. we are now connected with china in such a way that a separation from china not only damages china economically and in significant ways, it damages the united states economically. so what are we left with this morning? >> you're exactly right. look, china is now ten times, ten times the population of russia. china is a global economy.

china is a rising country. russia is none of those things. russia was a 20th century power. the only reason russia is still significant now, quite honestly, is because of its nuclear weapons, its military force, its cyber things. it's all they can do that's negative. china is a major feature in asia and the world. you're right, this is the defining relationship of this era. our ability to deal with the north korean nuclear capability, with climate change, with future pandemics, all of this depends on china. the challenge for poboth chines and american figures is how are we going to basically manage our competition, which is inevitable, over hong kong, over any number of other issues? how are we going to manage that competition in a way that still allows us, selectively, to cooperate where it is in our mutual interest? 21st century will not simply be about this bilateral competition. it is also going to be about

dealing with global challenges and regional challenges and the ability of these two countries to work it out is going to be central. i think what this administration has to learn is you can't succeed just by personalizing the policy. it's not simply about this president and this chinese leader. it is about these two countries, with two different systems, with different values and goals. this is the foreign policy challenge, in some ways, the diplomatic challenge of our era. right now, joe, what's worrying is neither country, neither side seems up to meeting this challenge, about how to deal with one another. >> well, last year, didn't donald trump somewhat, if not assure and promise china, silence on hong kong, as trade talks stalled, didn't donald trump suggest he would be muted? >> well, the united states has been muted on hong kong, in part

because we've been muted about democracy and human rights everywhere and anywhere in the world. it hasn't figured in this administration's foreign policy. this is a foreign policy for the trump administration that, more than anything, is about trade and about narrow economic interest. what seems to have happened, in listening to what carol lee was saying before, is that the administration can no longer emphasize the economic record. i think it is looking for other issues to essentially explain itself on, to justify itself. it is quite possible now, we are going to see a pivot towards a much rougher policy towards china across the board. because the kind of trade relationship we had is really quite irrelevant right now to the american economy. >> richard haass, thank you so much. we yanked you out of bed this morning. we really appreciate you coming on the show this morning to talk about this. have a great weekend. again, the book is "the world: a brief introduction."

just out. >> we're going to be spending our memorial day weekend reading it for the fourth time. >> i actually am. >> great book. >> richard, thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," we will check in with former fda commissioner dr. scott gottlieb about where the country stands, as states reopen for business. and why states reopening might give a little help to the crippled economy. steve rattner -- give little help to the crippled economy, or no help at all. steve rattner is going to tell us the most important factor that's not in the government's hands. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. effortless is the lincoln way. so as you head back out on the road, we'll be doing what we do best. providing some calm amidst the chaos. with virtual, real-time tours of our vehicles as well as remote purchasing. for a little help, on and off the road.

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my first week in office, i withdrew from the job-wrecking transpacific partnership, which would have destroyed the auto industry. bill, i never asked you about that. you do. would you stand up and nod that you agree? your industry, bill, would have

been destroyed, had that deal gone through. not only yours, by the way, but other countries would have been very happy. so, i don't know. i don't know how the hell the unions aren't endorsing trump instead of the standard democrat. a democrat that doesn't even know where he is. >> do we have -- doesn't know where he is. he knows where he is. >> he knows. >> eight percentage points ahead of you in a fox news poll. he is way ahead of you with senior citizens. >> he doesn't see you behind him. >> yeah. >> you know, what's happens. >> the thing is, boy -- >> when you're in front. >> this is the thing, so this is the problem for the trump campaign. it's a real problem. if he tries to say something like that, that biden doesn't know where he is, well, there are hours of video clips of donald trump walking around confused. >> right. >> just wandering around,

looking every bit as baffled as -- and confused as joe biden on his worst days. >> well, a lot of people see the response to the coronavirus as completely baffling. >> well, the thing is, if you want to talk about the coronavirus -- >> just lost. >> -- the time donald trump was saying it was one person coming in from china and it'd go away, joe biden was writing op-eds in the "usa today" saying, "we are not prepared for this. donald trump is not prepared for this pandemic. he needs to listen to his doctors. he needs to listen to his scientists. he needs to let them speak and help us in this crisis." donald trump, even a month later, was saying, "it is only 11 people. soon, it'll be down to zero." we're moving to 100,000 dead. he can't talk about joe biden not knowing where he is. we're bringing up china here, and people will say, oh, maybe we'll say china is too soft on china. here's a guy -- >> yeah. >> -- and i just saw this tweet.

donald trump's repeated fulsome praise of mr. xi as a, quote, brilliant leader and a, quote, great man came in 2018 and 2019. of course, in 2020, in january, around the same time, joe biden was saying we weren't prepared for the coming pandemic. that's when donald trump was praising president xi, saying what a great job he had been doing handling this coronavirus. the people of the united states thanked him for his, quote, transparency. again, another problem. they're going to have to find another tact, other than the doddering tact. that goes back at them. can't attack him on china because that goes back on him. they're going to have to work a little harder. these polls won't get better if he doesn't figure out a better

way to contrast himself with the democratic candidate. elections are all about contrast, and he can't contrast on being doddering, a doddering guy in his 70s. doesn't work for donald trump. too many clips out there. >> they happen every day. >> and can't actually use it on china either. >> we'll talk about not knowing where he is. that, what you just saw, was president donald trump during his speech yesterday at a ford plant in michigan, slamming the united auto workers union for its endorsement of joe biden. last month, the uaw's board announced its endorsement of the former vice president. joining us now, former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner. good to have you on board, steve. >> steve, thanks so much. what do you have for us today? >> i have some news about what's happening in early opening states like georgia, which we've talked a lot about on this show.

what's interesting there is, notwithstanding the fact the governor has opened the state, the rate of infections has not actually increased. it's been an interesting reason, which is, georgians decided they're not all that interested in going out. they want to stay home and stay safe. that has some economic implications that we'll talk about. first, this chart you're looking at here shows what's happened both to georgia and the country, in terms of time spent away from home since the beginning of the year. you can see that from a baseline of zero, the amount of time that both georgians and americans across the country have spent away from home dropped precipitously after the virus started, got down to almost 30% below normal. u.s. and georgia followed a similar pat ternpattern. georgia starts to reopen the 24th of april, and people trickle out a little bit. here's the important point on this chart. the patterns of georgians and the patterns of americans, in terms of how much time they

spent away from home, didn't change all that much. georgians are down 16%. the u.s. is down 18%. regardless of what the governor says, georgians don't seem to want to go out until it is safe. >> you know what -- >> it has implications economically and for their pocketbook. >> one second -- >> for the -- >> steve, hold on. we have a delay. then we can move on to the next chart. what is fascinating about that chart is it is showing georgians are reacting in a way, similar to how floridians reacted at the beginning of this crisis, when ron desantis was still being reckless as governor. he was refusing to close the state. when we saw those pictures of spring breakers. when we saw all that other -- and ron desantis refused to move. the studies have shown that floridians took it pop

themselv upon themselves to shelter in place and socially distance. they made the decision, even though by overwhelming number, they believed their governor was acting recklessly. the same thing now is happening at the other end of the first phase of this crisis in georgia, where people aren't listening to their governor. they're listening to their doctors. they're listening to medical advisers. they're doing what they think is best to protest themselves. go ahead. i'm sorry. >> no, i'm sorry. i didn't hear. no, that's exactly right. georgians have decided that until they feel it is safe to leave their homes and resume they're lives, they're not going to. you can see this in all kinds of data. if you look at the next chart, you'll see in terms of spending, the aga again, there was an enormous drop-off in spending across the country in early to mid march, when this hit. it dropped as low as 30%, a drop

in spending from where it had been before the crisis. coincidentally, the bottom, or not, was exactly when the $1,200 stimulus checks started to go out. americans started to spend more money, and georgians began to spend more money. almost exactly at the same rate. mid-may, georgians were spending 15% less than they had been at the beginning of the year. the u.s. had been spending about 16%. the important point about this is that until the economy recovers, until georgians start going out, it is very, very hard for the economy to recover. until americans start going out. i'm not telling them to go out when it is not safe. i'm simply saying that as people follow their public health instincts and public health guidance, it has significant economic impact. if you look at the last chart, you can see, again, what's happened to jobs in georgia. this tracks job openings in the u.s. versus job openings in georgia. see the same pattern. you had a high level the early part of the year.

drops off precipitously. there's been no increase in the number of job postings in georgia or the united states, down about 36%. again, because georgians are staying home. so what do we learn from this? what we learn is that to get the economy back, it's not simply a question of a governor saying, "i'm going to reopen restaurants, this or that." to get the economy back, with eh to solve the public health crisis in a way people feel comfortable and safe leaving their homes. this is the fundamental tension we're dealing with. we're facing a huge economic downturn, and we have to find a way, if we want that to be rever reversed, to get americans comfortable to resume their previous lives in some form of fashion. >> steve, what impact are you seeing of the government stimulus that's been poured in here? we throw these numbers around, but $3 trillion so far. democrats, last friday, passed through $3 trillion more. won't make it out of the senate, but massive amounts of

government stimulus into the economy. are you seeing impact of that, or is it helping some small businesses ride this out until the economy can fully reopen again? >> i think it is having a noticeable impact. the second chart, the downturn in spending ended exactly when the stimulus checks first went out. spending has come partway back to where it was before. i think people do feel more comfortable having some money in their pockets. i think the liquidity that has been put into the economy has helped. it's helped businesses get credit. it's helped businesses rehire employees. it's absolutely helped. i don't want to, in any way, suggest that's some substitute for a more fundamental return to work, return to normal, in order to get the economy back. this is a bit like putting a little bit of antiseptic and a band aid on a cut, when you need stitches or more fundamental help. as you know, the debate in washington at the moment is,

should there be a phase four? yes, of course there should be. the white house doesn't seem to completely understand that. we have to con to tinue to do m if we want the economy to fully recover. >> steve rattner, thank you very much. we'll be talking to you again very soon. as the u.s. continues to reopen, virus hot spots are resurging in the south. according to doctors in montgomery, alabama, hospitals are feeling the strain and starting to run low on intensive care beds. a.l..reports that four counties in the metro area have seen a combined 721 new con fefirmed coronavirus cases since may 4th. that's an increase of 110%. meanwhile, cases in houston are projected to increase over the next month. according to new research that uses cell phone data to track how well people are social distancing, the southern texas city is one of the areas that

could see spikes in covid-19 cases, as restrictions are eased. the report by policy lab at children's hospital of philadelphia found that traffic to non-essential businesses has jumped, especially in texas and florida, which have moved aggressively to reopen. joining us now, "morning joe" chief medical correspondent dr. dave campbell. i guess if you can first comment on that, especially what's going on in these hot spots, florida, as well. are they called hot spots at this point? are we just concerned they may become hot spots? >> well, there's certainly a ramping up of the numbers. we now know that the importance of aggressively acting on such data comes from even the studies that came out of columbia university, where they proved, in a mathematical model, that if we had shut down and started our

social distancing even a week earlier, in march, we would have saved 36,000 deaths in the united states. so i think we can take that information and learn from it. go now into may and june and realize we can lead by example as individuals, as doctors, as dentists, as people who are out in the public, by very aggre aggressi aggressively, and individually, using social distancing and physical distancing, face masks, gloves, hand washing, and start using the cdc metrics, guidelines that are out there. so that we don't become a hot spot. south florida, i'm in that right now. other parts of the country. we don't want to overwhelm the health care system. we almost did it already. we want to respect the fact that this virus is highly transmissable and is not gone. now, the entire country is covered in individuals that have

been symptomatic or asymptomatic, may still be infected, are still infected, and can transmit this disease to everybody else. >> so the cdc released a report this week way covid is spread. we're learning. can you get it from surfaces? how does it transmit? we can't talk about it enough, because knowing this will help people protect themselves. >> i think this is at least a glimmer of good hope and good information that came out. we've always known that person to person transmission is the way this particular new dro coronavirus likes to spread. we thought for a while that the virus can be spread on surfaces and be a source of transmission also. apparently, that's not quite as important. it doesn't mean you should willy-nilly touch things and touch your face, touch your

eyes. we now know that wearing a face mask, washing your hands, keeping your distance from other people is critically important, more so than worrying about the doorknob or the surface. but you can't let your guard down either, mika. all of those things are important. as the summer comes, we all start thinking that it is warm out, all of the myths we have about the virus dying in the summer, you can't assume that. you can't let that drive your pe ha behaviors. we, across the country, have to be on a heightened alert, so that we don't start seeing second waves and outbreaks and hot spots, mika. >> all right. dr. dave campbell, thank you very, very much. willie? also joining our conversation, section chief of infectious diseases at providence regional medical center in everett, washington, dr. diaz. he helped treat the first confirmed coronavirus patient in the u.s.

dr. diaz, thanks for being with us. we're going back now, in your case, to january, to m mid-january. obviously, the first time most americans heard about coronavirus was when there was an outbreak in that long-term care facility in kirkland, washington. what can you tell us about that first case? you are in a unique position to look at the long arc now over the last five months, four months, where this has ended up. are you surprised it's gotten as bad as it has, and what do you make of the response nationally do it? >> boy, we've seen a lot of changes since the first case that we had in the u.s. with our patient, we treated him with remdesivir, which was an experimental agent to treat covid. because he got pneumonia. he thankfully recovered. over the last few months, we've seen bits of data come out from the nih, as well as gilead, indicating that it appears to have at least some activity and may be effective in treating

this disease. the treatment has changed a bit over the last few months. fda has authorized it for emergency use, and we've been using it with our health system for a number of months. we've seen definite improvements in our hands. that's been sort of a good piece of the story, that we appear to have some treatment and more americans will have access to the drug now. the response, this is -- >> we -- >> -- sort of what we expected in terms of the spread of the disease. it was a novel virus. no one has immunity to it, so we expected that there would be a surge of patients, which we saw ourselves in late february to early march. thankfully, within our state, we had a robust response, with some social distancing, closing businesses and non-essential services. it's helped flatten the curve in our area. we've seen the good effects of the policy by the governor of our state. as we reopen, we're watching very carefully we don't see an increase in cases. we haven't so nfar in our area.

it depends on how people in the public socially distance, wear masks, wash their hands. it will be critically important as we move forward. >> since you treated that first patient, dr. diaz, we have 1.6 million cases in the united states, pushing toward 100,000 dead in the four months since you treated the first patient. as you look at the national response right now, and you see states now, all 50 of them in some manner, beginning to reopen for business in some way, with rules in effect, as you mentioned, social distancing, masks, things like that, do you think we are in the right place in terms of government response? is it okay now to send people back out into society? >> overall, i think it is. i would say we really rely on our local and state government to make sure they are following the cdc guidelines, as well as recommendations from the infectious disease center of america.

i think those recommendations we're seeing from the two bodies are sound in terms of scientific data. i think that, hopefully, the state governors are following those recommendations in terms of contact tracing and testing, that will make a difference in making sure there's not substantial spikes in cases nationwide, where governors may not be following that advice carefully, those areas may see higher cases than other parts of the country. >> all right. section chief of infectious diseases at providence regional medical center in washington, who treated the first patient with coronavirus. dr. diaz, thank you for your time this morning. we appreciate it. all right. still ahead, few people know more about medicines than one of our next guests. former fda commissioner dr. scott gottlieb joins us with his take on the timeline for finding a vaccine. plus, president trump is looking for a new fall guy to

blame for his botched response to the pandemic. the latest target, his own intel community. we'll talk to a former cia official about that, and how the michael flynn unmasking bombshell, and we put unmasking in quotes, seems to be more of a bud. we're back in 90 seconds. incomplete job from anyone else. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist. nothing stronger. nothing gentler. nothing lasts longer. flonase sensimist. 24 hour non-drowsy allergy relief

i did wear -- i had one on before. i wore one in this back area. i didn't want to give the press the pleasure of seeing it. i had it in the back area. i did put a mask on. >> did you have the goggles on, too, as well, sir? >> i did. i had goggles and a magssk. >> why would you not be wearing it -- >> in this area -- >> why would you not be wearing it here, sir? >> not necessary here. everybody has been tested. i've been tested. in fact, i was tested this morning. it is not necessary. >> the executives are wearing them. >> what about -- >> that's their choice. i was given a choice. i had one on in an area where they preferred it. i put it on, and it was very nice. looked very nice. but they said they're not necessary. yeah, please? >> what about the example that it would set for other americans? >> i think it sets an example --

>> to see you wearing a mask. >> it sets an example both ways. i did have it on. hey, you need to be staying 6 feet away from me. haven't i told you, you have to wear a mask when you're in the building. >> come on, big al. we're supposed to be practicing social distancing, which means we have to be 6 feet away from each other. don't worry, big al. we've all been there before, buddy. let's get you a mask. >> all of us want to make sure we play football this fall. to make that happen, we must be sure we stay at home if we have symptoms, wash your hands often, follow all social distancing guidelines, and please wear a mask any time you're around other people. >> roll tide, my friends. >> that is great. >> roll tide. >> thank you, nick saban. >> thank you, nick saban. >> okay. so the president did finally wear a mask in private at this plant yesterday. >> right. >> what he is doing to himself, instead of creating a

distraction, is he is showing us, he is letting us know that he is very embarrassed to be seen this way. >> what's interesting -- >> he doesn't like us to see him this way. it humiliates him. i'm not sure why. >> i don't know. >> he is very embarrassed, apparently, in this moment. >> nick saban doesn't have a problem with it, and most americans don't either, if you lack at the polls. majority of them. >> it is not a big deal. >> willie, what is interesting, the president said he didn't wear a mask, not for medical reasons, but because he didn't want the press to see him. >> embarrassed? >> in a mask? boy, in the middle of a pandemic, he, once again, says the thing that he should keep in his head, out loud, admits he is not wearing a mask because he doesn't want the press to see him in the mask. then he said, i just had a test and everything is fine. of course, when vice president pence's secretary caught the

coronavirus, got the coronavirus, he said, see, this is why testing doesn't count. you have tests every day, and she still ended up getting it. again, once again, the president contradicting himself and going against what the overwhelming majority of americans would want him to do. >> yeah. i mean, the american people, actually, don't agree with his view. we cited the fox news poll that came out last night. shows only 8%, eight, single digits, of americans don't wear a mask, they won't wear a mask when they go out. 92% who always wear one, sometimes do, usually do, or occasionally do. 92% of americans. he is way out there on this. he is sharing the view of some odd theories that pop up in viral videos, of people yelling at costco employees. he's siding with that sliver. i mean, do you think -- is nick saban not strong? is he not manly? i mean, the message from nick saban was, effecteffectively, "

y'all wear your damn masks." that's what he was saying to people. a lot of love. you could see his saban-esque annoyance with big al, coming at him that way. gave the saban hands and backed away before delivering the message with the mask. this is a guy who is obviously incredibly popular in alabama and across the south. president obama -- excuse me -- president trump, more importantly, is way off on this with even people who support him, who are wearing a mask. because it is not that it is not strong, it's that you then, if you wear a mask, can reopen businesses. then you can go into all those places you want to be open, that we want to be open, restaurants and stores. by wearing a mask, it helps move things along in the way you say you want them to move along. >> that's what nick saban said in the public service announcement in alabama. he said, "i want to play football this fall." >> right. >> wear the mask.

somehow, donald trump has made wearing a mask a political statement instead of a medical statement. it is a medical decision, a medical statement to wear that mask. again, you look at the infection rates. they go down 80%, 85% if you're not wearing a mask. or if you're wearing a mask, they go down 80%, 85%. >> yeah. >> you'd have to really have serious problems if you're out, running a business, and you're not wearing a mask. >> all right. along with joe, willie, and me, we have chief white house correspondent for the "new york times," peter baker. and white house correspondent for pbs news hour, yamiche alcindor. good to have you all on board this hour. we'll get back to the mask issue, which is just unbelievably frustrating, to

watch the president. we'll talk about politics now and the latest in the polls for 2020. joe biden is leading president trump by eight points in the latest fox news poll. biden sits at 48%, up six points since last month. trump is at 40%, down two. there's a 27-point gender gap between the two. trump leading by seven points among men, while biden is up 20 points among women. biden also has a 64-point lead among african-american voters. trump trails biden by 15 points among voters under 45 and by three among voters 45 and older. biden is also up 17 points among voters 65 and older. a group the president won by seven points back in 2016. when voters were asked who would do a better job handling the economy, trump narrowly leads biden, 45% to 42%. biden leads the president on the questions of who would better

handle relations with china, the coronavirus, health care, and women's rights. a lot of issues there. >> peter baker, trump supporters will say it is only may. they are correct. they'll also bring up the fact that there were some polls -- i think it was an abc poll -- that had hillary clinton up by double digits a couple weeks out. that was before the comey letter, of course. they'll say it was early. what are you hearing inside about concerns that the trump team have over florida, over arizona, over michigan, over pennsylvania, over the very states he has to win to get re-elected president of the united states? >> that's right. look at his travel schedule since he's begun leaving the white house amid the pan tell me pandemic. we've seen him go to michigan, pennsylvania. we've seen him go to arizona. these are states he has to win. he's not been going, of course, to states that are not part of his battleground strategy right now. the numbers in that poll, i think, that are probably most

significant are the 65 and older set. as you pointed out, this is an age group that he won significantly last time around. it has been a core of his base from the beginning. to see that number slip the way it has is very worrisome to trump's advisers. very worrisome to his strat i didn't strategy and case for winning again in the fall. the people who are most vulnerable to this virus right now are in that age category. the idea that, you know, we could open without endangering them, obviously, has begun to corrode that support for him. you're right, it is may. doesn't matter. ask president dukakis what it was like to be sworn in in '89. ask hillary clinton about four years ago. for an incumbent president to be as weak and as far behind as he is in the polls is worrisome to

the white house. this is a president who has not had the approval of a majority of americans in the main polls a single day of his presidency. we've never seen that before. never seen that before. never seen an incumbent win under that scenario. you add on a virus that has claimed almost 100,000 lives. 30 million some people out of work. on paper anyway, it is a very difficult road for the president to win a second term. in reality, he has some strengths. he is a strong figure. he has the bully pulpulpit. he has a dominant capacity to control the conversation. vice president bide season stuck in his basement at the moment, as everybody says. i think we shouldn't overstate where things are in may. but if you're a trump adviser at this point, obviously, it is a worrisome situation. >> yamiche, reiterating the caveats peter laid out, how early it is and how polls got things wrong about the 20 16

election, there is a new one out from fox, showing the president's handling of the coronavirus is low. he is upside down on the question of his handling of coronavirus. how much of that trip yesterday, yamic yamiche, to michigan, was about the concerns inside the trump campaign, about that state, which he, of course, won narrowly and helped propel him to the white house? >> reporter: what's clear, the president needs these battleground states to keep the position and to be president in 202 2021. the president is looking at the calendar. though they're official white house events, he's saying he'll look at the factories, meet with african-american leaders. what the president is really doing is also making sure that he is going out with his campaign message and meeting with people he thinks are going to help him get re-elected. what we see here is that the democrats see the coronavirus as really the president's biggest weakness. they're capitalizing on that. i think when i think about the

fact that president trump has come out pretty strong against president trump, and he's done that to try to get people excited about joe biden, but he's done it also by saying that president trump overlooked a chaotic disaster in terms of the coronavirus. i think when you look at the numbers of seniors, and you look at the fact these are the people that not only are the most susceptible to coronavirus, but they're also people who might want to vote by mail, what we've seen is the president go after voting by mail in this way that is him trying to say, if you're sick, you should be able to vote by mail, but if you're healthy and want to vote to be safe, that shouldn't be your right. i think in that regard, what he is doing there is really hurting his chances of getting his numbers up, including with women, including with seniors. these trips are important. what the president is saying and doing is even more important than any trip he's taking. >> couple things with that, peter baker. first of all, his constant barrage against mail-in ballots, which are used by our military, used by our president. i think it reveals a desperation

about -- some might argue this shows a real desperation, that if he can't win, if the polls show that he is just careening, that the only way to win would be to try to cheat in some way, which seems trumpy to some. if you're a trump adviser at this point and looking at the polls, you're probably troubled by them. they probably represent the way people feel in the moment. i wonder, is anyone able to advise him enough to show him that perhaps his leadership style in this crisis is not working? >> well, you know, mika, that's a question we've been asking, obviously, for a long time. one thing that trump's advisers have learned is that they are not going to change him. president trump is not somebody who is going to become a different person at this stage of life and this stage of his presidency. they can guide him a little bit. i think at some point, they helped him see the daily briefings had run their course. at one point, the ones that had

backfired at times, with the comments on the bleach and so forth. basically, it's his campaign. he is going to run it the way he wants to run it. these comments the last few days about mail-in voting are curious for a couple reasons. one, of course, is there's a lot of mail-in voting and has been for a long time. it's been increasing the last few years. five states do elections basically all by mail-in voting. republican states as well as democrat states have been interested in this. republican secretaries of state, as well as democratic secretaries of state. it's not certain whether or not it is more helpful to democrats or republicans anyway. the house seat in california just flipped democrat to republican in a campaign in which there was a lot of mail-in voting. you know, as yamiche points out, hitting some of the same voters that you want to vote by taking on mail-in voting. it is going to be heavily in the elderly category, heavily in people who are worried about the disease, but otherwise would like to vote and may, in fact,

want to vote for president trump. >> let's bring into the conversation the director of the harvard global health institute, dr. jsa. a practicing physician and professor of medicine at harvard medical school. great to see you again this morning. we've counted on you to kind of give us an honest snapshot of where we are in this process. we're now at memorial day weekend. it's the friday of the beginning of summer. we have been in this longer than i think most people thought two months ago, on march 15th, when we started to shut things down. some things now in all r50 stats have opened in some manner. people will be on beaches, out on lakes, going to restaurant, maybe outside, limited numbers on the inside. how are you feeling, as someone who studies public health, about where the country is as we head into summer? >> good morning, willie. thanks for having me on. as i look out over the next couple of months, i am hopeful -- i'll tell you what i'm hopeful about. most of the evidence emerging

suggests the virus is transmitted a little less well outside. as we get people outside, we might catch a break. a lot of states opened without getting their numbers where they need to be. that gives me pause. my hope is that if we keep social distancing, if people wear masks, if states continue to work on testing, we might be able to get to a point where we can get through the summer. won't look like a normal summer, but we might be able to get through the summer without a surge of cases. that'll probably carry. some states, i think, will do fie fine, but others probably will get into trouble. >> want to ask you about reporting by the "atlantic" that finds the cdc mixed results from two different types of covid tests, overstating the country's ability to test people who currently are infected. there is a crucial difference between viral and antibody tests. the viral test measures if a person has the virus now, while the antibody test records whether someone has had the virus in the past. as the "atlantic" puts it,

mixing the tests changes the measures used. data from antibody and viral tests are being blended. virginia stopped the practice, with the governor apologizing for the mistake. cdc said, quote, now that serology testing is more widely available, cdc is working to differentiate the tests from the viral tests and will report this information differentiated by test type. dr. jha, there is medical speak in there. if you can put that into plain english, about why it is significant from the cdc. >> yeah, so, willie, the key to opening up, one of the keys to opening up is being able to test for the virus, being able to see who is infected and who is not. if you start throwing in the serology test, which is actually a look in the rear-view mirror to see where was the infection weeks or months ago, and you put it all in one bucket, you make

the tests uninterpretabinterpre. i don't assign nefarious reasons to this. i don't know what got the states to do it, but we have to stop. it will confuse everybody. fundamentally, it'll make it impossible to know whether we have enough testifying to open up safely or not. we need to obviously know that. >> dr. j hhjha, in this place w at, without the testing we could use as a country, would you feel comfortable going to a doctor's office if everybody in the office was wearing the proper ppe? >> if everybody is wearing the proper ppe. it depends a little on where we are, right? >> right. >> there are some places in the country where there are few countries. >> doctor, if you're in an area that's been hit. if you're in an area that has had a medium or significant amount of cases.

>> yeah. so, obviously, if you're feeling sick, you have to go. you have to go to the doctor, the emergency department. one of the things we've seen is people avoid going and then actually having very bad outcomes. so for people who are sick, i do encourage them to go. right now, if you're in a place with medium or hard number of hit cases, you really do want to make sure that if you have to go to the doctor, you maintain the social distancing, wear the mask. more testing will make all of this easier for us to do. >> yeah. dr. jha, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. appreciate it. we will talk to you again soon. >> willie, final question for peter? >> sure. so, peter, as the president looks now at memorial day weekend, heading into the summer, sort of a snapshot of where he is, we've been welcoming at twelcome i -- looking at the new poll from

fox news, showing him down from biden on dealing with the coronavirus. how does the trump campaign dig out of this? he thought he was going to be able to lean on a strong economy, and he had one for a long time. that, of course, has evaporated with nearly 40 million americans out of work in the last two months. >> yeah. look, the theory or the case is, if they begin to reopen and can do it safely, then the economy begins to pick up nationally. people are not out of work because of economic reasons. they're out of work because of the virus. what is key to that is people feeling comfortable the virus is really under control. in fact, it is safe to go back to work, it is safe to go back to the stores and the restaurants and so forth. if it is, then, by fall, if there is not a second wave, the economy will have some degree of momentum. may not get back to where it was. probably certainly will not be back to where it was by election day. if it has some momentum, some sense that there is a positive

movement forward, that will be to the president's benefit. he'll say, look, i did it before and will do it again. i'm the one who is most likely to give you back the economy we had before this started. remember, the poll numbers you showed showed him at his strongest on the economy number, not anything else. on the economy number, it was close even there. that's his strength. the other obvious part of his strategy is tear down his opponent. biden, it'll attacks on his mental acuity, attacks on china, this obamagate stuff, to try to sow suspicion in the public mind with conspiracy th theories. it depends on the condition of the country in the fall. determine if president trump pushes the country to reopen. >> yamiche, looking to the weekend ahead, the week ahead, the president got so much feedback from his events,

traveling to michigan yesterday and other places earlier in the week. is there any discussion in the white house as to whether or not it is safe to have the president and so many people traveling with him? as he gets antsy, are there plans for him to do more of this? >> reporter: it sounds like there are plans for president trump to do more of this. he feels, obviously, very safe traveling. the white house stressed that he is surrounded by people that are tested daily. he, himself, is tested often, and he says he continues to test negati negatively. i think what's going to be interest sg ting is the preside will be running on a ghost economy. it likely won't be back in november. he'll be saying, look, i gave you something really great. i need time to rebuild the economy. the thing that is going to be tough for the president is that people are going to be really thinking about this virus as the number one thing on their minds. they'll be thinking, who is the best person to walk us through this? who is the person that i feel is

going to be comfortable and have the compassion and the grace to lead us through that? the president is hoping that as he reopens things, including sending out guidelines to reopen churches this week, or even today, that he is going to feel like he is the person who can lean on his political instincts and realize people are getting antsy to leave their homes. the idea is even as people miss each other, as i miss seeing you, joe, and willie, the point is everyone is still thinking about the fact that you want to be safe. that personal safety question is going to be a big one come november. >> absolutely. >> mika, we look at this abc poll. again, it goes back to the fact that americans just don't trust what the president is saying about the coronavirus. you know, the president has said since march 6th, any american who wants a test can get a test. we're doing great in testing. americans disagree. 73% of americans say that the united states does not have

enough tests. only 26%, about one in four, say we have enough tests. donald trump has been pushing hard against the advice of dr. fauci and other medical experts, about sending children back to school. only 69% of parents with children 18 or under are willing to send their children back to school right now. that's about seven in ten americans. willie, again, donald trump is playing for the smallest of smallest subsets of americans. >> yeah. we started back with the liberate michigan tweets. he saw, probably on fox news, a small group of people at the capitol, screaming in the faces of law enforcement officers while they carried semiautomatic rifles. he thought, okay, those are my guys right there. what he didn't realize is if you pulled back, it was about 25 or

30 people. the same goes for this -- whatever this crusade is against wearing a mask. as i said, again, wearing a mask helps you reopen. that's the goal, to get the economy reopened. that's the goal you've said again and again is yours and the country's. if people wear masks, it makes it easier and more likely that we can open and stay open. for some reason, he insists on siding with this small sliver, 8% in the fox news poll, who say they won't wear a mask. >> joe, i think the polls also show that people are scared for their own safety, and they see that he is flouting the guidelines that could keep them safe. it is deeply personal. it is intimate. >> yeah. >> it is about our lives. it is about following doctors' guidelines to keep ourselves alive. and the president thinks he can fly in the face of that. very close to the sun on many levels. >> you say people are scared. actually, i would say people are

wise. this isn't about emotions. they're looking around. they're seeing people, you know, you and i both know a doctor who was very skeptical of the coronavirus when it first hit, saying, this is going to be like sars. it is not really going to hit us. then his family was affected. we see that story time and time again. people going, oh -- >> this came on strong. people died. 93,000 people so far. >> well, can thand then it hit. for instance, we're seeing in montgomery, alabama, there is an outbreak. 17 people died yesterday in palm beach county, the president's home county. the concern is, again, if this hits in, like, for instance, more rural parts of america, in red state america, you know, i've been saying it a long time, rural hospitals may not be able to handle this. so to stop that, what you want

to do is, obviously, follow medical advice. wear a mask. protect not only people around you, protect yourself. so, again, yes, people may be scared, but this is a cold, calculated, medical move to protect your family, to protect those around you, to protect your loved ones, your senior -- for instance, your mom. to protect my boys that have underlying health conditions. to protect those around us and to protect other people. so this is not -- it is not a political statement. >> i know. >> it's about saving lives. as willie said, it is about reopening this government. getting small businesses going again. making sure that when restaurants open up, they stay open. >> i think people understand that the president could have used his power -- only he had it -- with the defense

production act to get testing. >> he's not going to. >> we don't have national testing, don't have the effort, because he didn't do it. >> the president says we have a lot of tests. 73% of americans disagree, mr. president. only one in four, a little more than one in four say america has enough tests. people aren't buying what you're selling. all right. yamiche alcindor, we miss you, to too. and peter baker. thank you both for being on the show this morning. great to have you. kurt bardella joins us, on how joe biden can use trump's promise to drain the swamp against him. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. give me your hand! i can save you... lots of money with liberty mutual! we customize your car insurance so you only pay for what you need!

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joining us now, analyst and former strategist steve schmidt. former adviser for the house oversight and government reform committee, kurt bardella, "mo "morning joe" contributor and

"usa today" opinion columnist. he has a piece out about president trump's promise to drain the swamp. quote, money that should be going to needy americans is going to trump's friends and cronies. if anything, the swamp is bigger than ever. >> explain for us, if you will, kurt. it is obvious, you look and see the money everyone around donald trump is making. it's obvious. explain it in a way biden should explain to voters. >> when donald trump ran for president, one of the most powerful rhetorical refrains he had on the trail was "drain the swamp." it was his first big promise to the american people, and it is the biggest promise he's broken. with the coronavirus, the money being spent by the government, we're seeing money go to his cronies, his donors, political supporters, and not the working americans who rely on it and need it the most. under donald trump, the swamp has expanded. if i were joe biden, i would drown donald trump in that

swamp. >> politically, of course. [ laughter ] >> steve schmidt, it is only may. we said it time and time again, it is only may. hillary clinton was ahead of trump by double digits before the comey letter came out in october. i think most of us would agree the head-to-head national matchups don't mean anything in may. let's go through the things we've all been worried about day in and day out. testing. the president has lied repeatedly about testing. march 6th, he said if you want a test you can get a test. he said the same thing last week. he's now having members of the administration going out, lying about testing. this abc poll that just came out this morning said 73% of americans say we don't have enough tests which, again, you can't lie to people about what they can get and what they can't get. they know. they try.

only 26% say there are enough tests. you go to schools. donald trump has been pushing for weeks for kids to be pushed back into schools. 69% of parents who have kids under 18, and they probably know what's best for their children, 69% disagree with donald trump on that score. yesterday, we saw the president, again, not wearing a mask. fox news poll shows only 8% of americans say they're not going to wear a mask. we showed a psa of nick saban at alabama saying, basically, wear your mask, dabecause i want to back to football. you look at the numbers of trump handling china, the coronavirus. joe biden ahead on all fronts. so i know it is a long buildup, but i've got to say, i get so tired of people saying that

donald trump doesn't pay for his political mistakes. it seems like he has been paying since 2017, and he's paying an especially high price right now. >> good morning, joe. when you look at these numbers, we should regard them as a type of border wall. it separates reality and donald trump's alternate reality. the american people have watched this play out for months now. they understand that the united states is the epicenter of the coronavir coronavirus, and that is the country you're most likely to die of covid-19 in. this is the country you're most likely to get covid-19 in. they watch donald trump tell the american people to inject disinfectants. the virus would disappear after 15 cases. the chinese had this under control and were doing a

terrific job. they've seen him lie about tests, attack governors. they've seen him threaten states. in short, they've seen somebody who lacks the mental, the moral, and the intellectual stamina to be able to lead the country during one of its greatest crises. so what the american people, i think, are looking at, taking donald trump's measure, finding him severely wanting as a leader. what they understand is that the coronavirus didn't shatter the american economy. what shattered the american economy was the incompetence and the ineptitude of donald trump's response to the coronavirus. this isn't happening in other countries in the world with the same economic devastation we're seeing in the united states. whether it's him saying the economy will be firing on all cylinders by the first quarter of 2021, or we'll have a great quarter, people know it is all a lie. what they see is the con man

being unmasked. the question is change or more of the same? nobody in their right mind looks at this and says, that guy has the wherewithal to lead this country through this great crisis and through the next four years as we recover from it. the recovery from this will likely take longer than four years. >> you know, it is an alternate reality. it is, sadly, i think in many instances, an alternate reality that the president doesn't -- that he gets swept up in himself and doesn't understand reality. he is having trouble reading charts, or else this he is lying to the american people, when he says, per capita, we're tied with germany as the best in the world. he is misreading the chart. we're 131st out of 140 counties per capita, as ranked by johns

hopkins university. as i was listening to steve talking about the president, asking doctors whether we should inject disinfectants into our bodies, or stick lights into our bodies, i'm thinking, this is a country that, since 1950, has won -- has been awarded over half the nobel prizes for science. in the fields of science since 1950. we have the best and the brightest scientists, mathematicians, engineers. you look at -- i mean, our best research universities on the planet. we've got the best doctors on the planet. you can go down the list. we were set up to succeed in this crisis and, yet, again, we're getting up to 100,000 deaths. 4% of the world's population,

4.3% of the world's population and we'll be responsible, soon, for a third of the world's deaths. >> yeah. the president, as you said, botched those statistics on the death rate comparisons around the world. he also said he wears the number of cases in the united states, which far and away is the most in the world at 1.6 million, as a badge of honor. he said that two days ago. he believes it means we're testing more, and that's why you're seeing the numbers. jared kushner said this has been a great success story by this administration. president trump said, we have prevailed on testing. so he's trying to declare victory over something that is very much still present in the lives, whether it is medical or economic, of americans. i would ask you, steve schmidt, as someone who has run a presidential campaign in 2008, with john mccain, what you make of polling in may. there is obviously the temptation to seize on some of this by some people and say, okay, good. if you're a democrat, donald

trump is in trouble. do you worry about thinking six months out that things could change the way they have in a revolutionary way in the last three months? that they could change again in another month and the month after that. or do you believe something is happening now that will tell us about what's going to happen on november 3rd? >> i don't think that any of these numbers, willie, are determinant of or predictable about what's going to happen in terms of the raw vote. but what they do snhow is the klei gn climate we're operating in, the loss of confidence with the american people and donald trump. in 2016, whomever the election was about was losing. the election was about donald trump all the way through. he was losing all the way through. until the end with the comey letter. it became, in the final days, about hillary clinton. very narrowly, donald trump was

elected to the presidency of the united states. it's incumbent upon joe biden to prosecute the case here. the case is, in the second decade of the 21st century, the most powerful nation in the history of the world, its leading scientistic, economic, and military power, elected a con man, a failed businessman, a reality tv show star, who had branded himself as a business icon to the presidency of the united states. he doesn't read. he can't consume information. he won't listen to anybody. we as a country had a real lack of imagination for the capacity for there to be a great tragedy. it has come. he lacks every ability, every competency necessary to get us through this crisis. that's what joe biden has to drive. he has to hammer it day in, day

out. this is an incokomcomincompeten no-good president, and he's made the country the weakest it has ever been in the post world war ii era. >> in the words of harry truman. >> one way to put it. >> as he was approached after getting off of a train by a detractor in the 1948 campaign, he turned to his advisers and said, "boys, we'll put him down as undecided." kurt bardella, let's talk about something you know about. of course, government reform and oversight, investigations. you were there when the republicans were doing it around the clock. you know all the players there. they've been talking about making up this obamagate story. and we heard that they were going to get susan rice's email released and, oh, my god, it was going to be horrible. it got released, and susan rice said, "go by the book.

go by the book." president obama said, "make sure you go by the book." "comey, you going by the book?" "yes, i'm going by the book." susan rice's email comes out, and it undercuts obamagate, whatever that is. then they go, but biden asked for the unmasking of flynn. we heard about that. oh, the buildup, oh, my god, this is going to be the worst thing ever. the unmasking of flynn. oh, how could they do this? this is a russian hoax, blah, blah, blah. what did we find out? we find out that flynn, his name was never unmasked. now, they're going to make up something else. like, this is this -- it is sad and pathetic. it is like this rolling conspiracy theory, one conspiracy theory after another. they think americans care about

it. ron johnson thinks people in wisconsin care about it. look at the polls. >> does he really think that? >> americans care about testing. americans care about keeping their children safe. americans care about keeping their seniors safe. they're worried about their mothers, their fathers in nursing homes. they're worried about their grandparents. they're worried about the things that a civilized nation would be worried about during this time, that an educated nation would be worried about during this pandemic, the worst crisis since world war ii. and on the hill, republicans are chasing conspiracy theories. it'll all blow up if their faces, kurt. it'll blow up in their faces. >> if there is any sure sign of just how desperate things are for the republican party right now, it's the fact that they're double-dipping on this playbook they used in 2016.

right now, more than 90,000 americans are dead. you know, millions around the world are suffering from this pandemic. instead of talking about ways to make us safe, instead of talking about ways to get the economy moving, reopening schools safely, listening to medical doctors and experts, republicans are chasing conspiracy theories. it speaks to something you talk about a lot, which is this narrow, fixated focus they have on this small group of people who will not determine this election in november. they are marginalizine themselv by chasing the breitbart-esque conspiracy theories, setting themselves up for failure. steve is right when he says that joe biden needs to prosecute donald trump every single day. when you have people like clay laci aviation getting $27 million, he is a donor for the trump rnc. $2.8 million in taxpayer funds. you have the president's

ambassador to belgium, his family getting a $5.5 million loan, that tells you that there is a case to be prosecuted. donald trump's drain the swamp rhetoric was an aborition. joe biden has ambition to go after donald trump. if republicans want to talk about oversight, investigations, hearings, and witnesses, donald trump has given them the blueprint for where they need to start. >> willie, wasn't it -- couple days ago, didn't kelly -- didn't we find out that the senator, kelly loeffler's husband, after news came out of possible insider trading, to profit off of the coronavirus, that he made his largest contribution ever to donald trump's cause? >> i don't want to say because i'm not for sure, but i know that senator loeffler had to hand over documents to the justice department and the sec. she is obviously being looked at

by those organizations, right now, along with rich afford burr. >> sorry. steve schmidt, can i ask you the same question? maybe i read that story wrong. >> no, he gave -- >> do you have information? >> he gave $1 million to the rnc. when we look at the totality of all of those loans, the story is going to be the small business people across the country who couldn't access them, and then the abuse, including by the president's campaign manager, brad parscale, who somehow got himself a significant loan for one of his businesses. so the cronyism, the corruption in all of this is just mind boggling. just one thing, joe, quickly, about obamagate, which, of course, there is no such thing. this was the cleanest administration in our lifetimes. there was no one indicted in the obama administration for eight years. nobody, zero people. so there is no such thing as obamagate. it doesn't exist.

it is a figment of the fever swamp of the media. i saw the gate in front of his house, obama's gate, but there is no such thing as obamagate as a scandal. doesn't exist. i don't think the american people are going to buy it from the most corrupt president, running the most corrupt regime in american history. >> yeah. i mean, compare the number of people that got indicted in the obama administration to the trump administration. holy cow. by the way, alex, chase this down for us. of course, they dump their stocks in january, and on april 29th, her husband gave, "politico" reports, donald trump's super pac $1 million. is that right, alex, $1 million? $1 million to america first action, a pac supporting donald

trump. >> there you go. kurt bardella and steve schmidt, thank you both very much for being on the show this morning. as we go to break, another look at the ad we showed you yesterday. it's the spot about trump campaign chief brad parscale. >> and part of steve schmidt's group. >> it is about brad. take a look. >> meet brad parscale. from dead broke to the man trump can't win without. brad is getting rich. how rich? really rich. don't tell donald. he'd wonder how brad can afford so much. a $2.4 million waterfront house in ft. lauderdale. two florida condos worth almost $1 million each. he even has his very own yacht. a gorgeous ferrari. a sleek range rover. brad brags about using private jets. oh my, brad's a star.

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no strings attached. just say "peacock" into your voice remote to start watching today. nearly 39 million americans have filed for unemployment benefits in the nine weeks since the coronavirus began to ravage the u.s. economy. yesterday the department of labor announced that another 2.4 million people applied for unemployment benefits last week. joining us now, a member of the

house budget and judiciary committee, senior whip of the democratic caucus, congresswoman jaipel of washington. she recently introduced the paycheck recovery act which aims to create federal grants for businesses to protect their workforce as more americans apply for unemployment. thank you for okabeing on. i know of businesses worried about losing employees to privately working or doing whatever they can to survive. you have news on the bill you introduced. can you share it with us? >> yes, thank you, mika. good monch. it is great to be here. we introduced the bill on tuesday and we already have 100 co-sponsors, over a dozen front liners, and it is bipartisan. so this idea from brian fitzpatrick, a republican in pennsylvania, to josh hawley, republican from missouri in the senate, this idea has real energy behind it because it is a

jobs bill. it is about bringing certainty to businesses and workers, ensuring that paychecks are going to be in their pockets and that the economy can recover at the end of the day without businesses having to shutter. this is an idea that is popular in europe. germany, of course, had it in place after the last recession, but many countries have put it in place since covid-19 hit, not just in europe but also singapore, malaysia, south korea. the idea is that we have to get immediate relief to people and we have to preserve that productive labor relationship between workers and their businesses. we are at almost 39 million people unemployed just in nine weeks, and that number is continuing to go up. so this is a streamlined way to get relief to businesses and workers, and as steve schmitt said we have seen the ppp and the failures of the ppp even though there are some good ideas

in there, which is to protect paychecks. we saw the airline industry, similar idea, money that went straight from treasury, the federal government, to the business so that they could cover payroll, benefits, health care, instead of 27 million americans being kicked off health care. this would preserve their health care and it would allow businesses to have some certainty and stability so that the economy can begin to recover. >> what aspects of the bill made it able for you to get bipartisan support? >> well, i think, like i said, you know, i think people really do recognize the scale of the crisis and they recognize that our current systems -- i'm so proud of democrats for expanding unemployment insurance. we need to do that. but as much as possible we should try to keep people in their jobs, and republicans really like that idea of keeping people in their jobs. and then, you know, anybody you can't keep in, of course the unemployment insurance system acts as a safety net.

i think the other thing is that if we are going to recover, we need people to stay home and pay attention to public health guidance as you all were just talking about. they're not going to stay home unless they have some economic certainty, and a paycheck allows them to do that. it allows the businesses to continue to keep people home instead of making a choice to reopen too quickly, which, by the way, is just going to prolong our economic downturn. republicans like that idea and front liners -- you know, these are our most vulnerable democrats in swing districts. the reason they are so energized about this idea is because it is about jobs, it is about the economy, and that is the place where we need to make sure we're speaking out. so bipartisan support across the ideological caucus within the democrats and, most importantly, tested and true idea that we've seen work in other places. we can do it as well, but we

have to do it quickly. our bill does go back to march 1st, mika, so that if you were laid off or furloughed after march 1st, that is an immediate way to shrink the unemployment rolls. >> congresswoman permil permilla jaiapel, thank you for being on the show this morning. we look forward to more updates on this. still ahead, new guidance on how the coronavirus spreads in terms of the things we touch. former fda commissioner dr. scott gottlieb joins the conversation. plus, clinical trials ramp up for a promising vaccine from oxford university. nbc's keir simmons joins us with those details. we are back in one minute. every financial plan needs a cfp® professional -- confident financial plans, calming financial plans, complete financial plans. they're all possible with a cfp® professional. find yours at letsmakeaplan.org.

the scientific evidence clearly indicates that physical separation has -- has worked, but not completely. if you look at the curves in our country, it isn't like everything is dramatically going down. i mean new york got hit very badly, but they are starting to come down now. now is not the time to tempt fate and pull back completely. there is -- there is a golden mean there. you don't want to stay locked down forever. dr. anthony fauci in a recent interview with actress julia roberts for a campaign to end poverty and preventable disease. warning that even as the number of coronavirus cases begin to decline and states tart to reopen now is not the time to tempt fate in any way. indeed. as the u.s. continues to reopen, virus hot spots are resurging in

the south. according to doctors in montgomery, alabama, hospitals are feeling the strain and starting to run low on intensive care beds. al.com reports that four counties making up the metro area have seen a combined 721 new confirmed coronavirus cases since may 4th. that's an increase of 110%. meanwhile, cases in houston are projected to increase over the next month. according to new research that uses cellphone data to track how well people are social distancing, the texas city is one of several southern areas which could see spikes in covid-19 cases as restrictions are eased. the report by the policy lab at children's hospital at philadelphia found that traffic to nonessential businesses has jumped, especially in texas and florida, which have moved aggressively to reopen. joining us now, former fda

commissioner dr. scott gottlieb. he's also on the board of pfizer, which is in the race to produce a coronavirus vaccine. dr. gottlieb, very good to have you back on the show. >> thanks. >> can you bring us up to date on the latest that we know on how coronavirus is spread? what we know in terms of how it actually transmits from human to human but also from surfaces and other places to humans, has our information developed and become more fine tuned? is there an update? >> well, i don't think the recommendations or the guidance has really changed. there was that report that cdc put out that said most of the transmission is from human to human. we knew that. we knew most of the transmission is respiratory droplets, human to human, and we knew most of the settings in which people contract covid is in which they have sustained contact with a person that's infected, but it doesn't mean there is not transfer from contaminated

surfaces. so the report from cdc was that it wasn't spread through human-to-human and respiratory droplets, just that it is mostly spread human to human. in places where you have a lot of people coming in contact with the same surface, for example mass transit, i think it is prude that cities put in place guidelines and measures to clean shared surfaces and businesses as well because they could be spread through those surfaces, just less spread through the surfaces. >> doctor, this weekend obviously memorial day weekend, a lot of people will be going to the beaches if they can, many people will be going into restaurants. based on the science, based on what we have learned over the past few months, what are your recommendations on how they do that safely? >> well, look, we have a lot of information now that shows that when there's been outbreaks, when there's been clusters of infection it has occurred primarily indoors. we have studies out of china, there was a study in a recent american medical journal as well, looking at cases where a

single infection led to multiple infections. most were in indoor settings, many in the home and mass transit. doing things outside is safer. my guidance to people and municipalities, i have been talking to a number of governors and mayors, try to move as much as you can outdoor. gym classes outside if you are starting gym classes. restaurants as they reopen should reopen outside. municipalities should be changing local ordinances to make it easier for businesses to move business outdoors. we know there's less spread outside. not zero spread, just less spread. it is less efficient to transfer virus through respiratory droplets in outdoor air. ultraviolet light also kills the virus. so if you are outside you are lower risk than indoors. >> doctor, it is willie geist. we had dr. zeke emanuel here yesterday. he has been very conservative in

terms of how quickly people should go back into businesses and into their lives. he said effectively he thought summer camps should reopen, obviously in a modified sense. they will have all of their protocols in place, it will be different than summer camp has ever been before. but he thought summer camps should open. he thought that would be a good test to start looking at schools come august and september. what is your view about summer camps? >> well, look, i think there is going to be a seasonal effect here. i think we will see transmissions start to break off as we get into the depth of the summer, really july and august. we saw it in 2009 with h1n1 and it came back in the fall. i think we face a lot of risk in the fall of a resurgence in infection. we can't become too complacent. with respect to the camps, i thought the camps would open, they could open, particularly sleep-away camp where you can create a protective bubble around children. i think what tipped the equation on that and changed people's minds -- i was talking to some of the camp directors -- was the report of the incidents of this

post-viral syndrome, what appears to be an immune inflammatory syndrome that seems to be a post-viral syndrome in a small number of kids. there were about 100 kids in new york, more now in italy and the uk as well. we don't know how many kids became infected but we see these cases and it is deeply concerning, and i think that changed the equation. i think that showed there's probably more risk to children than we perceived previously, and i think that tipped the balance in terms of whether or not camps opened this summer. you are seeing a lot of camps make the decision now not to open. >> so if a camp came to you, dr. gottlieb -- i don't want to put you on the spot and obviously this is not formal advice but just talking here. the camp came to you and said, we are a sleep away camp, we think we can open, what would you say to them? >> i think there's a possibility that you can create a protective bubble. you think about it. you bring the counsellors on campus first. you test them all on. you keep them there, quarantine them for two weeks, then you bring the campers on. you can test them as they come in.

you need to bring testing into the camp. if you can do those things you can create a protective bubble around the kids. remember, these kids will be out and about in the summer anyway so there will be risk during normal activities. it is not like they're risk free at home. there might be a potential to create a safer environment in a sleep-away camp where you create a bubble around the kids. nobody comes in, nobody goes out, no visiting day this year. a lot of camps made the decision not to do that. i think part of the complexity for the camps was bringing in the testing and being able to put in the features to create the bubble. they just couldn't do it. >> of course, willie, you are just asking that question for a friend and, of course -- >> two friends actually. >> my next question will be, what if you have a mother-in-law or somebody had a mother-in-law that comes over a lot -- anyway. >> well, actually -- >> actually, i'm curious about the summer camp thing because i've got two kids who very much still want to go to summer camp. go ahead, mika. i'm sorry.

>> so, doctor, i mean there are actually these questions that are so basic, but i think it would be incredible to hear from you on some of these basic things as the company tries to re -- as the country tries to reopen without the testing that it needs. so, for example, if you are in an area that's been hit even slightly, are we going to the dentist yet? if everyone is wearing proper ppe. >> yeah, look, i think we should try to do what we can in the summer, recognizing the fall could be a lot higher risk. so, you know, make your dental appointments, make your annual physical in august. i think we will see cases come down, transmission come down, notwithstanding the fact we are reopening and it will cause a surge in cases. in fact, we have seen a pickup in cases in the last week. we expected when we reopen. hopefully it is not going to be a big bump up, people will do it in a staged fashion and there will be a seasonal effect. when we get into the summer i

hope we can take a breather and do things we've put off for a whiefra. while. if you look at the chart i put on twitter a couple of days ago, cases collapsed in july and august. and you start to pick up the last week in august and then they shot up in september and october. there's a risk it is following a pattern like that where we will see a second wave. hopefully we have in place the testing to detect the outbreaks in the fall and implement interventions to try to catch the spread. this spreads more easily than the flu so it will be difficult to fully contain this heading into the fall. >> so then you are saying at this point still hold off on going back to completely normal? >> wait. august seems to be the safest window. >> yeah, august i think hopefully will be the safest window if we want to be hopeful about the future. i think we still continue to be

vigilant about what we do, still practice good hand hygiene, still wear a mask, still try to shrink down our social circles, try to limit how much we do. there's been studies that have come out that says if everyone goes shopping one time less per week, and you talked about the study out of chop out of the university of pennsylvania and that's one of the studies, you can dramatically limit spread. if people constrain their activity a little bit. so if we continue to do it on a mass scale i think it will have an impact on the epidemiology of spread, but hopefully we will get a break this summer where we can take a bit of a breather and do some of this things we have put off two or three months. a lot of people put off health care they need. this is the time to do it. we will be looking at july and august if there are elective things you put off, think about doing it now because there will be a lot of uncertainty after the summer passes. >> so i think, dr. gottlieb, a lot of families watching this are hearing what you are saying just now, which is that this summer represents just basically a breather before we see this coronavirus again in the fall. do you see a way to avoid that

fate? is there anything that can happen in the next three months that would stem, slow down, even stop coronavirus from coming back in the fall and impacting schools and our lives again? >> well, i don't think we're going to have a vaccine in time for the fall because it is going to be stand up those trials until you have the virus actually spreading. if you start enrolling a trial in july and august and the virus is not spreading a lot, you have to expand the trials in the fall when you have the virus and you won't be able to turn over the card on them until you get later into the fall or probably the winter. so, you know, the best thing you could do really is have in place very good screening, very good testing and very good case-based interventions, track and trace, public health workers who track down people who are sick, off their contacts, isolating. my concern going into the fall and testing is i think we will have a lot of testing platforms in place. the problem now is we didn't have the platforms in place. we couldn't run the test. we will have platforms allowing us to run probably 10 million

tests a week, maybe more. the challenge people will face is where to get tested. if you call your doctor in the fall and say, i feel like i have the flu, i bet you that your doctor is going to say, don't come into my office, go to this special covid testing site. you will find places that should be doing routine testing like pharmacies and doctors offices won't want to because the implications of having a covid positive person in that environment will mean they have to shut down their office and do a deep cleaning around quarantine their staff. testing only will be done at specialized sites and that will limit how many people can get tested. that's why we need to focus on getting testing into especially the at-risk environments, people who work in conditions, live in conditions that put them at higher risk of contracting coronavirus and do not just symptomatic testing but asymptomatic screening. >> doctor, final two questions. if you could clarify for viewers, because it seems every day even for those of us who are reading the news every day, we get conflicting signals.

let's start with the testing. we, of course, heard the abbott testing at times could be up to 50% inaccurate for certain sort of -- for certain testing. we have heard that for other testing units that are being used. what can you tell us right now as we near the memorial day weekend the status of testing not only in america but across the world? are our tests for the most part reliable? can we depend on them, the results? >> yeah, there's different kinds of tests for different purposes. you need to make sure you are using the right platform for the right purpose. things like the abbott test, the id now or the sophia 2 which is a very quick antigen test, they're fast and cheap but not 100% sensitive which means you will get a false negative rate where it says you don't have coronavirus where you really do. those tests are good in the hands of providers where if they have 100 patients come in and

they test and they say 85 have covid, and the doctor might say, i think they might have it and they send off an overnight test. the second category is the pcr test. they're more accurate but they're slower. you have to send the test off and it takes a day or two. then there are big platforms that can literally test hundreds of pools of samples at a time. those are good in a work setting where you might want to test the entire workforce on a weekly basis. for example, if you are trying to get 100% certainty nobody has a virus and you are trying to do it very quickly, the ob abbott might not be the right machine and the white house is using it that way. you might want a more sensitive machine that takes a little lodger, takes 45 minutes to run a sample verses 15 for the abbott machine but it is much more sensitive. you need to make sure you are using the right technology to solve the right medical challenge. >> finally, a lot of news on vaccines this week keeps coming

out. "the new york times", other publications have a lot of stories out about the vaccines and the promise of a vaccine that may actually beat past timelines. based on what you have heard over the past week and also the united states government's decision to pay a billion dollars for the oxford test, how do you feel about our progress moving toward -- not just america, but the world's progress and moving towards a vaccine in expedited timeline? >> i think the totality of the data that we've turned over so far -- and it is still early data, but on a number of different vaccine constructs, the data we have turned over gives more confidence we will be able to develop a vaccine to coronavirus. if you would have asked people three, four months ago will we be able to develop a vaccine for coronavirus, they might have said, we don't know. i think now we've seen multiple vaccine constructs we have put

into both animals and people that generated they can generate antibodies that are neutralizing, that do attack the virus. so that's reassuring. it doesn't mean we are definitely going to get a vaccine, but it certainly suggests that we should be able to develop an effective vaccine that provides at least partial immunity against this virus. >> all right. former fda commissioner, dr. scott gottlieb. we thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> thanks a lot. and up next, more on the global race for a vaccine. keir simmons joins us with new reporting on that. later, with all of the talk of people wearing masks, a mask story of a different kind. the news that michael flynn's name wasn't unmasked. >> oh, my gosh. >> because it was never masked in the first place. >> oh, my gosh. >> we'll explain ahead on "morning joe." >> the obamagate that wasn't. >> yep. obamagate that wasn't. >> yep no uh uh, no way

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stories we are following. a pakistan international airlines commercial flight with 107 people on board has crashed in the city of karachi, pakistan. the civil aviation authority confirms to nbc news an a-320 plane made up of 99 passengers and eight crew members was flying to the karachi international airport. the pakistan army says that it has sent helicopters in for damage assessment and rescue efforts. search and rescue teams are also being sent to the site. there is no word yet on if there are any casualties. the prime minister of pakistan tweeted a short while ago he is shocked and saddened by the crash and he is in touch with the airline's ceo who is on their way to karachi. willie. back here at home, the georgia bureau of investigation arrested and charged william brian jr. yesterday, the man who filmed the fatal shooting of

ahmaud arbery in glynn county, georgia. he filmed the encounter between arbery and the two armed white men, gregory mcmichael and his son travis, who were arrested two days after the footage emerged publicly and circulated on social media earlier this month. lawyers for arbery's family said the 25-year old was jogging in rease deny shal neighborho residential neighborhood when the two attacked him. they said they pursued him because he resembled a suspected burglar. they maintain they acted in self-defense after he violently attacked him though the video tells a different story. brian was arrested on felony murder and criminal intent to commit false imprisonment. his attorney says his clint was nothing more than a witness to the killing. the fbi says a shooting at an air station in texas yesterday was terrorism-related. authorities say a gunman opened fire at naval air station corpus christi, wounding at least one

security force member. the coastal base was on lockdown after security responded to a report of an active shooter around 6:15 a.m. local time. the shooter was initially said to have been neutralized, in their term, before fbi agents confirmed he had been fatally shot at the scene. officials say the injured security force member is in good condition and is expected to survive. mika. actress lori loughlin and her husband agreed yesterday to plead guilty and serve prison time for their part in the college admission scandal that broke last year. in a plea deal with massachusetts prosecutors the former "full house" star and her fashion designer husband, mossimo giannulli, will be convicted for paying half a million dollars to a college consultant to get their daughters admitted to the university of southern california as members of the crew team.

they will plead guilty to conspiracy to commit wire fraud -- wire and mail fraud and lori loughlin will spend two months in prison while her husband will serve five months. she then will be subject to two years of supervised release. lori loughlin and mossimo giannulli proclaimed their innocence for a year. they asked for the charges to be dismissed on grounds of entrapment, leaving many surprised by yesterday's reversal. michael cohen was released from prison yesterday due to the coronavirus outbreak. he was sent home to his new york city apartment where he will serve out the balance of his three-year sentence. the president's former fixer was convicted in 2018 of lying to congress and campaign finance law violations. cohen is the second associate of the president to be granted early release due to the outbreak. former campaign manager paul

manafort was sent home last friday. willie. researchers at oxford university announced just this morning they are ramping up testing on a potential coronavirus vaccine. joining us live from london, nbc news senior international correspondent keir simmons. keir, good morning. there's been hopeful news this week here in the united states about a vaccine, obviously still in its earliest stages, but the race continues here. what more can you tell us about what oxford has found today? >> reporter: hey, willie. good morning. yeah, it was interesting to hear you talk to dr. gottlieb before the break there because we all just want the answer to the question, will there be a vaccine, don't we? of course, that's the question that no scientist can answer, but i've got to tell you that it is just exciting to talk to those scientists from oxford university. i've been talking to them over the past few months, because they are so hopeful and now making this announcement this morning they're going to move to stage two and three of trials,

which means this trials will include a lot more people and also that they will include children as young as five and folks over 70. this morning a massive expansion of human trials for a promising coronavirus vaccine. >> it is critical because it is a trial that will tell us hopefully will the vaccine work or not. >> reporter: more than 10,000 people will now help test the vaccination, developed by the uk's oxford university, one of the lead researchers speaking to me overnight. >> 10,000 people will help you understand not just whether the vaccine is effective but whether it is safe? >> oh, absolutely. >> reporter: the announcement comes after a billion dollars of investments in this vaccine by the u.s. government, in partnership with astrazeneca, the aim to manufacture a billion doses worldwide by the end of 2021 and hundreds of millions for america this year. >> if you had said that to me months ago, that all of that would happen in a month, i would have thought that was wild and

fantastic. so we're thrilled. >> reporter: but the vaccine isn't proven yet. human trials began in april with more than 1,000 participants. some got the covid-19 vaccine, a control group did not. right now both groups' blood is still being checked for antibodies to see if the vaccine is effective. the results could take two months or longer. and while tests in monkeys have shown success at moderating the virus, the vaccine in those experiments at montana's rocky mountain's lab did not prevent infection. some are saying they're moving too fast. >> in my view is not when we are going to have a vaccine, it is if we are going to have a vaccine. >> reporter: oxford university says there is hope but urging people not to relax. >> i would encourage everybody to be sensible and alert and not put themselves or other people at risk. >> reporter: be safe and wait?

>> absolutely. be safe and be sensible. >> reporter: researchers say they're moving at historic speed, telling nbc news by june or july they could start large-scale clinical trials in america. >> reporter: and as you say, willie, this is one of many vaccines being worked on around the world. in fact, this is one of four types of vaccine, and this is why it is important just to cut through the political noise, willie, which kind of posits either there will be a vaccine or there won't and we will definitely get one and that kind of politicking, if you like. in fact, vaccines can have different strengths, different efficacy, different abilities to work, and particularly for people who are older, folks over 70. it is harder to get a vaccine that really works, and, of course, those are the people that most need it. so it is good that there are many different vaccines being developed, and the hope will be that actually a number of them might work. willie. >> a long way to go, of course, but it is good to know there are people working around the world.

>> reporter: that's right. >> every minute of every day to get us there. nbc's keir simmons. good to see you. thanks so much. coming up next, president trump as, quote, obamagate conspiracy theory suffers a setback. jeremy bash joins us with that new development. we are coming right back on "morning joe." back on "morning joe." to everyone navigating these uncertain times...

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we reported last week that three republican senators made

public a declassified list of obama administration officials who made requests to unmask trump's former national security adviser, michael flynn, in what the president is calling obamagate. >> boy, that sounds terrible. >> now two sources familiar with the matter tell nbc news flynn's name was never redacted from the fbi report. >> okay. >> despite republican efforts to create an unmasking scandal. >> a conspiracy theory. how interesting. based on lies. how fascinating. >> another one. gosh. where have we seen that before? flynn has admitted lying to the fbi about his phone call with sergey kislyak, the russian ambassador at the time, but the justice department is seeking to drop the case. it is confusing. >> for kids who haven't been following this at home, flynn lied to the fbi.

>> yeah, admitted it. >> flynn pled guilty to the fbi. the vice president said flynn lied to him. donald trump said -- >> yeah. >> -- he had to fire flynn. >> yeah. >> because flynn lied to the fbi and the vice president. yet, barr decides he is going to drop a case where the guy's already admitted to lying to the fbi. it is just getting harder and harder to follow the swirl of nonsense and chaos going on in the trump white house. >> and that's what it is, it is a swirl of chaos. it the lack of masking was first reported in "the washington post". the source said his name was unmasked in other intelligence reports about conversations he had with foreigners, but not the one about the december 29, 2016, phone call that got him in legal trouble. that call with the russian

ambassador was monitored by the fbi under a fisa warrant covering dikislyak as is standa practice. joining us former chief of staff with the cia and department of defense, nbc news national security analyst, jeremy bash. also with us distinguished professor of global affairs at the johns hopkins school of advanced international studies, hal browns. and republican strategist and msnbc political analyst susan del percio joins us as well. >> while it would be fun to talk about conspiracy theories that the trump white house is trying to launch and yet one after another sinks, i want to start with you, jeremy, with the real crisis that's brewing in china. xi has taken -- president xi has taken china's worst financial downturn since the 1970s and now

he's added uncertainty to hong kong's status as an economic -- economic center of power in the world. the question is what is next for hong kong? what is next for china? what is next for our relationship with china? >> well, joe, i think this is a very troubling sign that china will use the cover of the coronavirus crisis, both the health crisis and the economic crisis, to unleash a crackdown on hong kong, on pro democracy elements within hong kong. you saw them trying to keep the riots under control, keep the protests under control over these past many months, but this is a new phase. i think xi jinping is doubling down on his hong kong crackdown. i think it remains to be seen how the administration, the trump administration will react. we've rewarded them with a trade deal that the president has

bandied about as really the best thing for the united states and for the chinese economies. of course, the president congratulated xi jinping on his handling of the coronavirus, said they were being transparent, said everything was going to be fine. so i think this is a troubling sign, another troubling sign in xi jinping's dig -- in the moves. >> it was called a setback for the rule of law in the city such as disqualification of hong kong's legislators on ideological grounds, and then quoted a hong kong expert that said hong kong's constitutional platform has collapsed and its dismal govern r governme dismal government can deteriorate further. your thoughts? >> i think it is the way things

are trending and it eats away at the promise of the one country, two systems approach that was made when hong kong reverted to chinese control almost three decades ago. so i think the big question now is how this will play out on the ground and how the united states, in fact, will react, because the state department in order for hong kong to maintain its special legislative status has to certify that hong kong retains a significant degree of autonomy from mainland china. if that is no longer the case, then that would potentially introduce far greater uncertainty into hong kong's legal status, which might have implications for its status as a financial center. >> hey, jeremy. if i can hop back to michael flynn and the president's treatment of the intelligence community over the last six weeks or so, i would be interested in your take as someone who worked at the cia. first of all, about the question of masking, how the fbi conducts

surveillance, in this case of phone calls betweenambassador ks lee y kislyak and michael flynn. the second part is president trump stripping away the intelligence community and getting rid of the inspectors general to clear a path for him and mike pompeo and others to conduct business anyway they see fit. >> yes, a couple of aspects willie, there. first, this report from "the washington post" and confirmed by nbc news was that the conversations that sergey kislyak was having with michael flynn on december 29th during the transition period between the obama and trump administrations, that when reports were circulating michael flynn -- mike flynn's name was in there. there was no request to unmask. so this whole, quote, unquote, obamagate hashtag in search of a scandal effort by republicans on

the hill actually has no merit. with respect to other unmasking requests that apparently they want to investigate, again, you can't know before you make the request whose name it is. if you knew it, you wouldn't have to make the request for unmasking. unmasking happened about 16,000 times during 2018 under president trump. that compares to about 9,000 times during the last year of the obama administration. so there's no scandal at all here. i think just to emphasize your point, willie, that when the president fires multiple inspectors general in the intelligence community, at the state department, the deputy inspector general at hhs, glenn fine, who was the dod inspector general over seeing coronavirus relief funds, when he fires those inspector generals we lose a major component of oversight to check the administration's action. breaking news from "the washington post", just a side note here. a study was just published in the medical journal "the lancet" and it is the largest analysis

of date of the risks and benefits of treating covid-19 patients with hydroxychloroquine. the study of 96,000 hospitalized coronavirus patients on six continents found that those who received that drug promoted by donald trump as a, quote, game changer in the fight against the virus had a significantly higher risk of death. >> great. >> compared to those who did not. the quote, it is one thing not to have a benefit, but this shows distinct harm, said a cardiologist. >> wow. >> and director of the scripps research translational institute. if there were ever hope for this drug, this is the death of it. breaking news from "the washington post." >> that's incredible. >> about a study just published today in "the lancet," 96,000 patients. >> the president called that va study that came out recently about hydroxychloroquine false. i wonder if he will call this

false as well. i hope the american people don't listen to him on this. another crazy rabbit trail that he's taking americans down. susan del percio -- >> not just dangerous, as the study this morning shows, crazy. it is a dangerous rabbit trail. >> yeah. >> it doesn't -- >> potentially deadly. >> -- do no harm. it is significantly more dangerous to take this drug with coronavirus. >> and the question is, is the president really taking it? he is taking this dangerous drug? >> no, no. >> that's crazy. >> he's not. >> it is nuts. what else was just sort of hard to believe, susan del percio, is that we are dealing with this unmasking scandal and you have the president, you know, pushing an investigation into what is another conspiracy theory, something that he does often using the power of the presidency, the legitimacy of the presidency to push an

investigation. that should be a stop right there. but then there are the republicans who keep pushing this, who keep running after this. who are they and is it working with their constituents? >> well, they're not embracing it which tells you a lot, especially those who are in tight senate reelections coming this year. but it goes to a pattern of recklessness, whether we are talking about what drug the president is taking or if he suggests drinking bleach or if he is being reckless with our intelligence community, these are all dangers against the american public. they're all equally dangerous in different ways. i am just astonished that we were talking about with china and hong kong just a bit ago, that we don't see republicans speaking out. six, eight months ago, we did. the fact that they're not speaking out just shows how they're really kowtowing to this president. yet on the flip side, this president has a chance of doing something for himself politically and looking strong

against china, which he is trying to fight, by pushing back on their move to infringe on the people of hong kong. >> all right. hal brands, i love asking historians this question, the president pushing an unapproved, dangerous drug, the president pushing for a scandal, an investigation into a scandal of unmasking and other conspiracy theories. what's the historic precedent? >> i think we're on relatively new ground here, certainly in terms of the president playing an unqualified doctor on tv every day. in terms of pushing investigations of predecessors, i think we're certainly on new ground in terms of the intensity with which the president has pushed this line with respect to his predecessor and also with respect to the extremely shaky foundation of a lot of these claims. i think that the pattern here is

one of essentially trying to kick up as much dust as possible in the run up to the 2020 election. and so if you are unable to persuasively rebut allegations of malfeasance within your own camp, then make allegations about malfeasance within the other camp. to the point that was just made, i think that this pattern actually rebuts one of the claims that the president's allies made during the impeachment trial, which was that he would be chastenned, that he had learned his lesson about pushing the boundaries of his own authority in the ukraine saga and he would be reticent to do it in the future. in fact we are seeing the opposite. now that he is out from under the threat of impeachment he is becoming more assertive and trying to bend the justice system to his will. >> jeremy bash, there's a new reporting in "the new york times" this morning about what

it takes to brief this president. we've heard from many people who have attempted to brief him over the three-and-a-half years he has been president, about their own frustrations to get him to pay attention, to read and listen to advice when he is more likely to listen to somebody who gives him a phone call, a personal friend or something he sees on "fox news". this applies to what we're going through right now because we know that the intel community did warn this white house very early on in january when china was reporting its first cases out of wuhan. can you describe the frustration that is inside people you used to work with, people you still know trying to get to this president and implore to him how serious these matters are? >> yeah, willie. i mean there's a general approach that, hey, we're going to brief a president and give him the information however he needs it, and he's the first customer and we will kind of conform our way of doing business to him.

but this president is just out there. i mean he doesn't listen, but more importantly he brings into the intelligence discussion things he's heard from news max, things he has heard from oan. so it is not just that the intelligence is bouncing off of him and he is ignoring it. he is actually integrating right-winged crazy nut job conspiracy theory elements into his own thinking, and it is almost impossible for an intelligence professional to provide the facts. what is also incredibly disturbing is that the president is now throwing the cia under the bus, saying they downplayed the threat of coronavirus. what i would like to see, willie, is i would like to see the intelligence reports including possible the pdb declassified and disclosed in the same way after 9/11 we had to declassify and disclose some of the reports given in august of 2011 -- excuse me, 2001. i think it is important to declassify that in the same way as we were talking about before. the whole question about what did michael flynn say and when

did he say it, let's declassify the reports and let the american people decide. >> all right. thank you so much. greatly appreciate it, jeremy. thank you so much, hal brands. thank you, susan del percio. willie, i'm looking at the numbers from this study and something that -- a quote that you pulled out. for those receiving hydroxychloroquine and an antibiotic, the cocktail endorsed by trump, there was a 45% increased risk of death. a 45% increased risk of death and a 41% increased risk of serious heart arrhythmias. those numbers are absolutely astounding. not only question donald trump, but think about all of the doctors that went on other networks, pushing this scam -- pushing this dangerous, this deadly cocktail of drugs simply

because they wanted to get on donald trump's good side. think of the damage they've caused. >> joe, the -- yeah. the number is even worse. it is not 41%, it is 411% greater chance. 411% greater chance of a heart arrhythmia. >> what! >> yes. so obviously these numbers, this study is devastating. >> how could he be taking this? >> he's not. >> that raises the question, is he really taking it. if he is taking it, the country should be outraged that a white house doctor gave it to the president of our country, the man whether you like him or not who sits in the oval office and is the leader of this country. would a doctor really stand by and allow the leader of the free world, the most powerful man on the face of the earth, to take a drug that could lead to a heart arrhythmia, that could potentially lead him or others to death? what about all of those people touting it on television? they ought to be ashamed. >> wow. wow. >> again, a study of 96,000

patients with covid-19. willie, i misread it. i thought it was 41%. 411% increased chance ofincreas irregular heart arrhythmias and a 45% increased risk of death. >> may as well take poison. >> donald trump kept saying, what do you have to lose? what do you have to lose? that's when donald trump says, what do you have to lose? you know the answer. >> we're back in a moment with much more "morning joe." you wouldn't accept an incomplete job from anyone else.

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hey, you need to be staying six feet away from me. haven't i told you, you have to wear a mask in this building? >> come on, big al, we're supposed to be practicing social distancing which means we have to be six feet away from each other. don't worry, big al, we've all been there before. let's go get you a mask. >> all of us want to make sure we play football this fall. and to make that happen, we must be sure we stay at home if we have symptoms, wash your hands often, follow all social distancing guidelines and,

please wear a mask any time you're around other people. >> that is -- that's a message from nick saban. >> helpful. he cares about our health, people's health. >> he also cares about the economy reopening and he cares about getting back on the football field this fall. and willie, a very clear message there, underlying all that, which is, if you want us to play football this fall and do our part, you need to do your part right now by wearing a mask. for any football player that's gone through nick saban's two-a-days in august in tuscaloosa, alabama, they can assure you that wearing a mask is much easier. >> first of all, joe, we've got to get you one of those masks. i'll get an anchor down vanderbilt mask and we can wear our masks together. it's a fun video and we're joking around about it, but i actually think that's an important message because there

is this view out there that wearing a mask is somehow a partisan, regional thing. like people in new york city are trying to impose it on people who live in alabama, and what nick saban, the most popular person in the south, except there's some other s.e.c. schools. put on your masks. it will help fill up our stadium in september. we can get back to the way we live if you wear your mask. >> we have a picture of the president actually wearing a mask when he was compelled to do so by people at the ford motor company. bill ford said please wear one. and they -- i think he looks better. i don't know. he's worried about how he looks. he's worried about, i guess, people not seeing him as looking strong. >> this is a good example for america to do that. >> it seems to me that -- >> he needs to do it. >> let's be strategic about this in terms of public relations. if you tell the world that you

don't want to be seen in a mask and they see you in a mask, you have even more reason to be embarrassed. you've shown to the world that you're afraid to be seen in a mask. it's like he painted himself in a corner, susan. >> he has, and it's nothing new for him, mika. it's him trying to show strength. and one thing i wish that over this memorial day weekend while he's trying to show strength he'll also show some empathy. and if he needs a little help with that as he's ordered the federal buildings to lower their flags at half-mast to honor those who have died of coronavirus, he should go back and look at that alabama/lsu game about six months ago. that stadium holds 100,000 people. that's how many people have now lost their lives roughly in this country to coronavirus. if he needs a statement, look at that and then just imagine the silence and all the people disappearing. that's the loss of life we've seen. >> and i say it only half joking. nick saban is one of the few

people in the country that donald trump might listen to. he has such respect for him and goes to alabama football games and likes the fact they win all the time. joe, circling back to that study, the lancet study just published and we've been talking about here that really as one doctor puts to rest the idea that hydroxychloroquine can be used as preventative treatment or treatment afterwards for coronavirus. the 411% increase they found in heart arrhythmia was for hydroxychloroquine plus an anti-biotic. and why that's important is that's what the president says he's taking. he says that's the cocktail he's using and it's going to keep coronavirus away from him. well, that cocktail, according to this study of 96,000 people, a huge study, shows a 411% increase in heart arrhythmia in people who have it. >> yeah, that's what the lead of "the washington post" in talking about this lancet story talks

about. the trump cocktail, which he said, again, hydroxychloroquine combined with an antibiotic. >> he says he's taking it. he took it. >> whatever. so anyway, this -- the thing to always remember, too, and i know people get frustrated. we're talking about this debate between the masks and who should wear it and who shouldn't. if you look at the fox news poll, willie, what was it, 8%? only 8% of americans say they aren't going to wear a mask and you look at the small number of people that carried ar-15s in michigan state assembly. again, donald trump is narrow casting to the most extreme few. and anti-vaxers and to a large group of people who aren't going to determine who is elected this fall. >> yeah, and the people we see

in those viral videos screaming at costco employees about wearing a mask and saying it's tyranny represent a small sliver of the country, and these statistics we have are a good reminder of that. >> we hope everybody has a safe memorial day weekend. we'll be back monday. >> be safe. thank you so much for watching. we greatly appreciate it. mika, we'll be back on monday on memorial day. i'll see you on tuesday. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle. it is friday, may 22nd, and here are the facts this hour. we begin with the number of u.s. deaths from coronavirus approaching a grim milestone. more than 95,000 americans have died from the virus with nearly 1.6 million confirmed cases across the country. the president now ordering flags to be flown at half staff this weekend to honor the victims of this virus. and as we head into memorial day