good morning. it is saturday, may 23rd. i'm ali velshi. any day now the united states will reach a milestone that president trump said just weeks ago was impossible. 100,000 covid-19 deaths and rising. globally, a stage at the united states commanded leadership on prior to trump. daily records for covid-19 cases continue to be set. topping 100,000 a day last week.

you most likely wouldn't know any of this if you listen to the president who appears to be employing a distraction and manipulation campaign against the hard facts relating to the covid-19 pandemic. trump has ordered the centers for disease control and prevention to alert official or alter the guidance as it relates to the american people. >> at my direction, the centers for disease control and prevention is issuing guidance for communities of faith. i'm identifying houses of worship, churches, synagogue and mosques as essential places that provide essential services. some governors have deemed the liquor stores and abortion clinics as essential, but left out churches and other houses of worship. it's not right. i'm directing this injustice and

calling houses of worship essential. >> regardless of how that plays with separation of church and state and if the president has no authority to issue that decree, his insistence of the opening flies in the face of this is not a time to be complacent. >> the scientific evidence clearly indicates that physical separation has worked, but not complete completely. if you look at the curves in the country, it isn't like everything is dramatically going down. new york got hit very badly, but they are starting to come down now. now is not the time to tempt fate and pull back completely. there is a golden need there. you don't want to stay locked down forever. >> trump was so intent as not following official rules that he

tried to hide from the media when he briefly donned a mask at the ford plant in michigan on thursday. this photograph is one of the only images of trump wearing it. the push for a speedy reopening flies in the face of brand new scientific research. one study saying covid-19 may still be spreading at epidemic rates in 24 states, mainly in the south and midwest. highlighting the risk of the second wave. and americans remain nervous. >> let's see how it goes. see if we can get in. it is crazy. why would you miss it? this is like historical moment when everybody goes out and we're allowed to be open. >> people want to get out and feel normal again. go out to eat. we will be busy. you know? hopefully we'll get people in and hopefully it will be worth it. >> a lot of restaurants will not reopen. based on the ppe, if they don't adjust it, i think in three or

four months, more restaurants will go bankrupt. >> we are in a tug-of-war with the state saying what we can do and state local health officer. it is not fun. >> meanwhile, the pandemic response playbook is not playing well with the american public. 39% of americans approve of the handling of the trump's coronavirus pandemic. that is a record low. 60% disapprove. that is a record high. it is also not great news for trump as we continue along with the unique presidential campaign. the latest quinnipiac poll shows joe biden ahead of trump by 11 points. even in the new fox poll, puts biden up by 8 points. in the last fox poll, it was a tie. joining me now is host phil rucker. the author of "a very stable

geni genius." he dives right in to where the president's focused lies on the most recent piece in the post. in the next phase of the pandem pandemic, trump is poised to let others take the lead. phil, good morning. i want to pick up there. >> good morning, ali. >> donald trump is having difficulty in making decisions about what people need to do. he is supporting other people's decisions or decisions to protest governors and supporting faith leaders who want to open up their churches and synagogues. it doesn't seem -- it seems like a continuation of the policy in which the president is not issuing guidance, but feeling his way through this. >> i think that's right, ali. what you hear from the president is the desire to get the country reopened and as we saw yesterday, focus on letting churches open and people congregate there. those are not -- he does not have the authority to make those decisions. those decisions are made at the

state and local level according to the system of government. the governors have to really grapple with the hard choices of balancing the economic desires with the public health needs. then down at the business by business level, it is restaurant owners and shop owners and church leaders who have to decide what they feel comfortable doing in their businesses and places of worship and how many people they feel comfortable letting in based on the guidelines of the local, state and county officials have issued. >> here is the thing. there are guidelines out there. there was a more robust version of the cdc guidelines which didn't get out. a lighter version, if you will, did. you still hear as we did from anthony fauci. you still hear from public health officials issuing warnings. including, by the way, how churches and faith groups should handle this thing. you see the president putting his thumb on the scale saying these are guidelines. do what you think is right for

you. >> yeah. ali, we are hearing a lot of urgency from the public health officials including the white house afternoon where dr. deborah birx, led a briefing and stated while the spread has slowed, it is still too high for comfort. we are not out of it yet. she warned heading into memorial day weekend that people have to maintain six feet of social distancing even if they are out on a hike or park or doing some gathering in their backyard. they need to keep that distance. otherwise the virus will spread because it is still alive. especially in the bigger metro areas. >> look, it is memorial day. it is good weather in much of the country. it is understandable the impulse. we want to get some back to normalcy. for some people it is not just a want. for a lot of american businesses or people who get a paycheck, it is desperation.

it feels like the president is done with this. he wants to move in campaign mode. he spent last week on other things than coronavirus. >> that is right. he wants to campaign. he wants to have the rallies returning as soon as possible. he is focused on the republican national convention scheduled for august in charlotte. he ramped up his travel schedule. we saw him last week traveling. he will be traveling once or twice this week according to the plans. he want to get out in the country and resume normalcy and take his argument to the voters and draw contrast to joe biden. of course, he can't do that. we are still in the middle of the pandemic. we're in the middle of the catastrophic economic recession and may become a depression. millions of people are unemployed and looking to him for leadership.

he has a lot of challenges in the moment. >> look, i get the impulse. i share the impulsion to want this not to be what it is. that's not the reality. phil rucker, thank you. the ford plant on thursday, trump explained his reasoning for not wearing a mask. >> i had one on before. i wore one in the back area. i didn't want to give the press the pleasure of seeing it. i had it in the back here. i did put a mask on. >> did you have the goggles on? >> i did. i had goggles. goggles and mask. here is another one. >> why are you not wearing it? >> not necessary here. >> didn't want to give the press the pleasure. one official has not held back on the mask or no mask conundrum

is dana nessle. the president took to twitter calling her a wacky do-nothing attorney general and taking her anger and fstupidity out on the public. the president unleashed on you. it is a pattern he follows. he doesn't seem to have much regard for women leading statewide positions in michigan. your governor has been a target of all this. i want to read the end of the tweet, attorney general. refused to follow rules. i have to say this is no joke. he is conveying the worst message to people who cannot afford to be on the receiving end of terrible misinformation. it is very, very concerning. the president p saresident says want the media to get the pleasure of seeing him with a mask. how do you read that?

>> i don't know if he interprets wearing protective equipment as weakness or what message he is trying to convey or everything is fine and we are not in the middle of the global pandemic. we are. our state has been hit hard. we are well in excess of 5,000 deaths and 50,000 infections that we know about. i think there are many more than that. these measures have been put into place for one reason and one reason only and that is to protect people's lives. they have to be taken seriously. so in order to reopen manufacturing, which we only just did last monday. we have to have the measures in place. i think for the president to say i don't want anybody to see me following the law which is what it is here in the state of michigan. i'm following the protocols and regulations sends a message. i can see people saying if the president doesn't have to follow

the rules. why do i? if anything, he needs to lead by example. and per usual, he is not doing that. >> look, bill ford, the chairman of ford, issued a statement. encouraging the president to wear a mask when he arrived. he wore it during a private viewing of three ford gts. the president later removed the mask for the remainder of the visit. the governor told rachel maddow said it wasn't surprising, but disappointing. anyone in the position of power emulate what is they are asking everyone else to do. this is unique in the state of michigan. not unique, but unusual. you continue to have people who are taking strong exception to your governor's stay-at-home order and proclaiming it is infringement on the first amendment rights. >> yes. firstly, i think it is very much a minority of people.

the vast majority of michiganders understand the governor's reason and why i enforce the orders. they want to stay safe. they want their families and communities to stay safe and alive. it is unhelpful when you have the president of the united states coming in and sending a different message. we want our state to get back to as close to normal as we can. we don't want to have a second wave here. we know the orders have been effective in terms of flattening the curve. we don't want our numbers to spike here again. now that businesses are coming back online, we need to make sure that everyone who works at any of the businesses is properly protected. we need to make sure that, you know, customers and consumers are properly protected. that's all we are trying to do here. >> let me ask you about the first amendment questions. they extended now not from the stay-at-home orders but to the houses of worship the president

is talking about. there are religious leaders, some, minority, who are claiming this is a first amendment violation. except no one is forbidding anyone from the practice of faith and all faiths -- anyone who assembles is being treated the same way. from a legal perspective, is there any basis from those who say not allowing church, synagogue, mosque gatherings is a first amendment violation? >> obviously, you will have strict scrutiny that is evoked here. the highest level of security by a court. my argument would be that. it is not stopping people from practicing their religion. i have seen a lot of people with online services here. you have to weigh and balance the health risk against the first amendment rights. we made the argument in the case because people were saying in order to get the haircut on the

capitol lawn, that was the exercise of the first amendment speech. there is not a constitutional right to get your haircut. getting it cut does not qualify. what i would say to people is this. we are only trying to protect people's lives. we want people to be able to worship their faith. of course we want that. we also want people to be safe. you cannot continue to exercise your faith or your religious ideals. whatever they are. in the event you are so sick to do so or not alive anymore. let's be practical about this and talk about the best way to move forward with every component of your life. to do so where you are safe and healthy and where your family and community is protected. that's all. >> attorney general, good to see you. thank you. michigan attorney general dana

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very, very encouraging early results. i have to say it. what do you have to lose? i'll say it again. what do you have to lose? take it. if things go according to plan, it will not kill anybody. what do i know? i'm not a doctor. >> we have had some great response in terms of doctors writing letters and people calling on the hydroxychloroquine. >> president trump, as you can see, long praised the benefits of the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine as a game changer in twereating the coronavirus. he announced he has taken the drug. the medical journal "the lancet" shows patients hospitalized across six continents. those treated with hydroxychloroquine had a higher

risk of death compared to those who were not. those patients were more likely to develop a type of irregular heart beat that leads to dechat. this is in conflict with what the president said about the drug. according to the research, taking hydroxychloroquine can, in fact, kill you. it gets worse. trump had specifically been recommending the drug be taken in combination with the antibiotic. the study says it is yet more dangerous than simply taking hydroxychloroquine itself. now these findings come on the heels of the report from columbia university. if the united states had imposing social distancing measures one week earlier than it did in march, about 36,000 fewer people would have died in the coronavirus outbreak. 36,000 people. trump called the study a quote

political hit job. dr. fauci agreed with the research, but with this caveat. >> the logic thing is if you would have done it earlier, you would very likely prevented a number of infections. that is the way it is. there's no getting away from that. i have a little skepticism about models. >> joining me now is dr. irwin redlene rerk redlener. and david shulkin. previous veterans affairs secretary under president trump. the author of the book "it shouldn't be this hard to serve your country." good morning. dr. redlener, president trump is consistent in saying regular folks who don't know these things don't understand modelling.

he says it is obvious to say if we started a week earlier, we would have had fewer deaths. the distinction here is a week earlier, public health officials, including you, because you and i talked about this months ago were actually saying we needed to do this. it is not that if we started a week earlier that we didn't know about it, we could have saved lives. we did know about it. >> yes, ali. you know, the interesting thing here among other things is that it was obvious, i think, that we should have started this particular procedure of staying at home earlier. the problems is a lot of dithering among the states because we didn't have much in the way of a good central guidance from the federal government. they were all over the map and it took a long time for us to get the picture we needed to close to save lives. the other thing, ali, it is not like we had a bunch of tools in

the tool box to deal with this vir virus. we had no vaccine. we skitill don't. we don't have any medication that seems to be working. the only thing we can do, even now, is close down to stop the spread. that's just become an obvious fact that's been accepted by literally the entire public health community. it is refuted by the white house. it is, i think, understood by tony fauci. he never got anywhere in trying to make the president understand how important it was to have a clear central message, ali. >> and david, this is something you understand. he never really got anywhere with trying to make the president understand the central message. you worked in the administration. there was a pandemic plan. it was brought forward by the last administration. one of the things that took place was the sit down with the old administration and new administration warning about

pandemic. there were plans at the cdc that came later for dealing with this. they were held back by the white house. the desire to not have this pandemic be a thing has overwhelmed all impulse at the white house to do the right thing about it. >> yeah, ali. i think it is really important that we hear a consistent message from the national leaders. all we want to do is follow good, sound advice that is backed up by evidence and science. i think as dr. redlener said we know what is effective in preventing the spread of the virus, which is social distancing and good hygiene and use of masks and treating the virus cautiously. give it consistent messaging of what works and doesn't work. the message about hydroxychloroquine is that as physicians we're taught do no

harm. if this drug is not used properly and not monitored can cause harm. that's why i believe strongly this drug should only be used in the context of a clinical trial. there is a complalinical trial going on to see if hydroxychloroquine has any effect. the issue about treating and being effective in patients who have covid-19, i think we can put that issue to rest. we now have seen four studies. first one coming from the v.a. and now the last one in "lancet" showing the same thing. this is not an effective drug of treating covid-19 patients. >> irwin, what's the benefit? it seems like a layup like me who is not a doctor that people don't take things that we don't have evidence that doesn't work or could cause harm. the president seems committed to

putting these things out there. i'm not asking to you get into president trump's head. what is the impulse behind pushing a cure that doesn't work or therapeutics that don't work or an talking abotalking about sooner than available? or discussing getting out there? what is the driving force? most people think public health rules should be the driving force. >> of course. i think any rational person wants to know the science is showing us before we leap into the unchartered waters. like for example, taking the hydroxychloroquine as the secretary just said. we're in a situation now where the president has himself become and i said this before a public health hazard. he is out there touting and promoting grossly inaccurate information and ninformation tht is dangerous. ali, if you took

hydroxychloroquine or if i took it, we would influence two or three people. the president influences millions and millions of people when he says something as ignorant or untrue. that's the situation we've gotten ourselves into. why he is doing this? who knows. convoluted into some particular political agenda that he thinks will or won't help him in the election in november. who knows? >> gentlemen, good to see you. dr. irwin redlener and dr. dafvd shulkin. thank you. does the president have the power to reopen all of the houses of worships? override governors? we will have the battle literally with church and state with reverend the al sharpton. e with reverend the al sharpton. how about no

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president trump has already called for businesses and schools to reopen. now he wants churches and other houses of worship to do the same. >> some governors deemed liquor stores and abortion clinics as essential, but left outhous hou of worship. it's not right. i'm correcting this injustice and calling the governor's need to do the right thing and allowing the important essential places of faith to open right now. for this weekend. if they don't do it, i will override the governors. >> all right. to be clear, trump cannot order houses of worship to open or override the governors. large services pose a huge risk for spreading the virus. churches in georgia and texas

had to close the doors again after members and church leaders tested positive. the same day, thursday, the cdc issued a report detailing how 35 people who attended services in the rural action church in early march became infected and spread it to another 26 people in the community. four of whom died. at the same time, some churches say orders restricting large gatherings violate the first amendment rights. that seems like an odd claim. nothing in the stay-at-home order restrictions curtails one's freedom to worship or claim to faith. it prevents all gatherings and doesn't target religious gatherings. it targets gatherings of all faiths. church leaders have filed lawsuits challenging restrictions with support from the trump administration. authorities in mississippi are investigating whether a church that filed a lawsuit was the victim of arson. in california, hundreds of

pastors say they plan to hold in-person services on may 31st. pentecost sunday. here with me is al sharpton. president of the action network and host of political nation. and jack jenkins. he is also the author of the book "american prophets." gentlemen, welcome to you. reverend, let me begin to you. this is close to your heart. congregation is central to religious practice in america. we have seen that those things that bring people together, weddings, funerals, parties, gatherings. that's where the virus spreads. i was surprised to hear people of faith protesting this saying it is a first amendment violation. >> i think it is -- i'm at

action national network right now. most of our national board had a conference call saying we must keep our churches closed. what i don't understand how do you go to a house of worship and thank god for another day of your life and then recklessly risk my life? it does not even make sense. if you really love the sheep that god made you shepard of, you do not risk those sheep. especially because someone wants to make a political point and try to revive what he calls normalcy for his own re-election. >> jack, i get the impulse. just like there is an impulse for people to get to work and get outside. there is an impulse for people of faith to engage in community.

there have been creative issues with facetime and zoom. the cdc put out guidelines and encouraging good hygiene and washing hands and use the face coverings and social distancing. suspending or decreasing the singing because of the load of virus that comes out when you sing. limiting the sharing of hymnals. these are just guidelines. you don't have to follow them. what do you believe the impulse is that is propelling the president on this? >> right. i think it is worth noting to al sharpton's point. the proclamation from the president is not popular. less than half of religious americans, 46%, went to worship before the pandemic said they would return even if public health officials said they

could. if that number changes when yyo include white evangelical. that jumps to 63% when you make up a percentage of the president's base. you have leaders of evangelical church of america who called the comments reckless and dangerous. catholic bishops suspended worship not out of fear, but respect for human life and health. there seems to be a benefit to this for the president which is he does seem to cater to white evangelic evangelicals who have shown up on election day. >> reverend, i want to talk about this when joe biden was talking to charlemagne. if you have not heard them, let's play them.

>> you come see us when you come to new york, v.p. joe biden. >> i will. >> it sis a long way. >> if you have a problem if you are figuring out you are for me or trump, you ain't black. >> i want something for my community. >> take a look at my record, man. i extended the voting 25 years. i have a record second to none. >> the last thing i wanted to do and i shouldn't have been a wise guy. i shouldn't have been cavalier in responding. i don't take it for granted. no one, no one should have to vote for any party based on their race or religion or background. >> reverend, i have to ask about this. you have studied clearly. you were a presidential candidate. you studied how the candidates relate to and policies b beneficial or not to the

african-american community. joe biden is interesting. he has some history suggesting he supported policies that were not helpful and remarkable backing from the african-american community. one should never say you ain't black. what do you make of what he said and what he said about it since? >> well with, i think it was certainly inappropriate and i think he is right to say it was cavalier. it may be an understatement. at the same time, he is highly regarded in the african-american community. charlemagne on his show and me here on msnbc saying to joe biden you have to deliver a platform and policy that we have the faith you will enact. he is running against a man -- you talk about joe biden made a gaffe in the statement yesterday. you are running against a man

who called haiti an s-hole country. it is not hard in terms of who he is running against. the question is who he is running for and he should not get in his way of raising a policy. he has a 22-page policy he put out for african-americans. yes, we disagreed with him with the crime bill in the '90s. i marched on it. we disagreed on other things. he said there were unintended consequences there. he served eight years as the vice president to president obama with the affordable care act. he has a record to stand on. he doesn't need to minimize it. we will keep pressing him. our votes have to be attached to an agenda. >> that's the role of the media. reverend, i'm glad you brought

up the birtherism. i'm a kenyan born muslim. barack obama was never at any of our meetings. thank you for getting up with us this morning. jack, thank you for all your excellent reporting. jack jenkins. national reporter. the reverend is the national action network president and host of msnbc "politics nation." facebook and twitter have strict properolicies of spreadi misinformation on their sites. does the president need a twitter time-out? more after this. r time-out more after this. (bell rings) when heartburn hits fight back fast... ...with tums chewy bites... beat heartburn fast tums chewy bites get a free footlong.

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truly sofi, thank you for helping me prepare for whatever the future has in store. (♪) the president has spent the last three years believing he is above the law, but is he above

the guidelines on social media? most recently alleging that michigan illegally sent absentee ballot applications saying the funding will be withheld if they go down the voter fraud path. false. big pinochio. trump's voter fraud claims have been debunked. recently by florida officials who said thursday that there was no evidence of voter fraud during the 2018 election. he has used social media to encourage americans to take unproven drugs for covid-19 cure. i should correct myself. the drug trump has been touting may lead to more deaths if people didn't take it. and now new polling shows 56% of

fox viewers think hydroxychloroquine is an effective treatment against covid-19. a study i mentioned released yesterday found the drug increases the risk of death and irregular heart rhythms in patients. 96,000 patients on six continents. trump's words mean something. some people take them seriously. polling show 73% of americans believe trump should be banned or suspended for spreading false information about the virus. why don't the rules apply to trump? joining me now is ben collins. ben, i'm sure you roll your eyes and get tired of this question. it seems like this battle has been lost. people on a daily basis, possibly by the thousands, report trump to twitter and facebook and come back with the answer to say he is not violating the rules. >> he is violating the rules by

any traditional standard. there is a carve-out in this case, if you with a public figure, you are allowed to break the rules. their argument is look. it allows constituents. trump is not sitting around all day every day helpful. if anything, he is driving harassment toward people. that is the rule they made. they made this a long time ago. in fact, previously, they didn't have rules. donald trump used to say things about ebola five years ago that would have gotten him banned now. before subject to the new rules created. it is a free-for-all. it has been like this for years. they do this to protect their business. this is just in the case of

google and facebook and twitter for years. >> we have a lot of viewers who express a lot of frustration with this. i'm with them. they say why do you spread this stuff when he says it? he talked about hydroxychloroquine and that's news worthy. the president is saying there is a drug people should take and it might work. you don't want to have msnbc decided not to tell you about a drug that you would think the president says is valuable and useful. it turns out it is not. yet, lots of people believe that is the case. same with obama gate. it is not a thing. it is a conspiracy theory. there are people out there who believe it is a thing. again, we count on social media who said they will step up to regulate the stuff. when it comes to trump and some of his allies, they don't. >> yeah, ali. that's the point. there's been secondary media ecosystem created in the last five years that is supposed to get around the gatekeepers and

road blocks to prevent harmful misinformation from becoming reality for a lot of people. in that yahoo! news poll, alarming issue. of fox news viewers and 44% of republicans think that there is some weight to this idea that bill gates is microchipping people with a potential covid vaccine. do you have any idea how dangerous that is in the long-term to actually believe that? did fox news float that? no, did the president? no, but what did they do. they sowed constant doubt. what they find is algorithmically targeted insanity on youtube and twitter and facebook where people gamed the system for profit or power over the last five years, they've created these networks that are bigger than us. if we don't talk about it, it's going to keep coming up over and over again undebunked in these spaces and there's no way to

stop it, and eventually they're going to have half the population fearful of a vaccine because they think there's a microchip in it. it's insane but it's the reality we live in right now. >> this concept that if you're in this particular ecosystem or echo chamber and someone tells you go look this up, it may show up for you in the way it wouldn't show up for me. how you consume your news using social media is different and does matter. ben, good to see you as always. thank you for joining us, ben collins writes about this a lot, and you should follow him because it will keep you both smarter and in this particular case safer. file this one under things the president did while you weren't looking. president trump has pulled the united states out of its third arms agreement in three years. why you should care? i'll tell you after the break. e? i'll tell you after the break.

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leadership has always been america's hallmark. some believe the united states is exceptional. the promise of the united states to its citizens and to the world has been to endeavor to uphold democracy, to protect human rights, to help foster innovation and cooperation, and when america lives up to that promise, is exceptional. the ability to do that stems from leadership. today, though, that role is diminished and some are worried it may soon disappear entirely. trump has spent much of his time

in office preaching america first. he's disparaged and dismantled major global organizations, agreements and treaties. just this week he announced the u.s. would pull out of its third arms agreement in three years. this time it's a treaty called open skies. it was signed 30 years ago allowing nations to fly aircraft over other countries and gather information to ensure the country over which they are flying is not preparing for military action. if you're wondering why you should care, i get it. we're living in a pandemic, so why are we worried about spy planes? we're worried about the degree the united states is cedeing its role as a global leader. we jeopardize our safety and the safety of our allies, while not always doing it perfectly, the u.s. has generally been able to bring the world together to inspire others to aim for

democracy, freedom of expression and to warn enemies of the values of those consequences. that role has changed. trump has picked fights with nato, the u.n., the world health organization, the world trade organization. he's weakened ties with allied democracies in favor of strong men. he exited the paris climate deal, abdicating leadership in the climate crisis. he exited the iran nuclear accord, which is the world's most stringent nuclear pact to date. now that he's taking america out of open skies, the likely next step in the cancellation is the new start agreement, the deal that limits how many nuclear missiles russia and the united states can have. these are big concepts. it's easy in the midst of a crisis to push aside concerns about an arms treaty, but no one country can fight a battle like the one against coronavirus without the resources and the help of others. so now more than at any point since world war ii it is critical for america to maintain

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