good afternoon, i'm alicia menendez. i hope you are enjoying the start of your holiday weekend. millions of americans are using the holiday to get out of the house for the first time in weeks. beaches and parks are opening with some restrictions but there are a lot of questions about how the restrictions will be enforced. president trump hopes americans will get back to church this sunday. he ordered all houses of worship open, but it's still unclear if he has the authority to do so. plus, joe biden is backtracking from some controversial comments he made about black voters. we'll talk about the former vp's relationship with minority communities and what more he can be doing to bring them onboard. and the fbi is investigating the investigators. we'll explain why the bureau is looking into how it handled the michael flynn case. we begin with the white

house. president trump yesterday delivered a combative announcement pushing governors to reopen all houses of worship across the country, deeming them essential. >> i'm identifying houses of worship, churches, synagogue and mosques as essential places that provide essential services. some governors have deemed liquor stores and abortion clinics as essential, but have left out churches and other houses of worship. that's not right. i'm correcting this injustice. the governors need to do the right thing and allow these very important essential places of faith to open right now, for this weekend. if they don't do it, i will override the governors. >> i would like to bring in nbc news political reporter monica alba at the white house.

we know trump doesn't have the authority to enforce this so where does the administration's argument go from here? >> reporter: you're exactly right and what was most telling perhaps yesterday was when the president came out and made this announcement, he declined to take any questions over what authority he might have that overrides the governors. this is up to individual states to decide for their churches, synagogues and mosques what is most appropriate and when to open in the face of this pandemic. but the white house press secretary, kayleigh mcenany, was also pressed on this later in that appearance and she had to ultimately concede that in reality the president knows that each governor will have to basically make these decisions based on the cdc's guidelines. the trump administration's own guidance, which went back and forth all week long about what houses of worship were going to be doing in terms of their recommendations. he came out ahead of that wanting to push this issue forward, but failing to explain exactly how that would work. and we're hearing from some governors across the nation who

say they will not be opening this piecemeal before they are ready. they have given all the guidance to their houses of worship that they need to follow the cdc's recommendation, to wear a face covering, to make sure no more than ten people are gathered, to see if there are services that will be held outdoors. some churches may have to get create, but with this coming yesterday, hard to see how they can enact this this weekend with such little short notice. >> critics say this is politically motivated. there is of course the reference to the liquor store, to abortion service providers. what are you hearing? >> reporter: the president was elected in large part due to strong support from his evangelical base so this is something we're hearing from his campaign advisers and allies who have said they've seen public polling in the last couple of weeks and some internal numbers that did have them alarmed, worried that they were slipping slightly with this important block of voters. so this is in part politically

motivated. we see the president coming out and making the announcement to try to show he's the face of it but not explaining how it would work in actuality. they want this message going into the campaign and the re-election in november that the president is doing all he can for some of his supporters who are itching to get back to those services as they were before the pandemic. but what's been so clear is that none of that can resume in its original form. there will have to be alterations and that's something that coronavirus task force response coordinator dr. deborah birx echoed yesterday, saying she hopes and trusts americans will do the right thing here. and if they are feeling sick at all, they won't go to these gatherings and they will be sure to follow the other recommendations of face coverings and washing your hands, alicia. >> monica, thank you. in texas, beaches have reopened for the memorial day weekend. it's part of governor greg abbott's phase one plan to jump-start his state's economy. priscilla thompson joins me. what are the guidelines the

beachgoers must follow? >> reporter: well, alicia, it's a gorgeous day here on galveston island and we've seen the tents and umbrellas popping up. but folks are going to see the police command centers set up along the beach in addition to the beach patrol that is out here. these officials aren't necessarily here to enforce the social distancing guidelines. while they can encourage that, their real job is to ensure that there aren't any folks getting caught in any of these currents and there aren't any public safety issues along the sidewalks here. and so the onus is really going to be on individuals, as we have seen out here, folks are trying to practice social distancing, not a whole lot of masks. but the tourism bureau is actually flying a plane back and forth along the beach, reminding folks to keep that distance because they know that the responsibility is really going to be on people with officials here sort of overwhelmed with the influx of people coming in for the holiday weekend, alicia.

>> priscilla, what are you hearing from residents about what they're expecting this weekend? >> reporter: yeah, well, officials have said anywhere from 250,000 to 500,000 people could be out here, but most residents i've spoken to have said that it doesn't seem as crowded as they expected. they still feel like they've had space to sort of spread out. but we're not seeing a lot of those masks and it is actually fairly crowded even as people are trying to spread out. and i asked folks about that, if that crowding and if those folks who aren't wearing masks was concerning to them. take a listen to what people told me. >> i'm not sure i'm worried about that. but for those who are worried about it, i suggest they stay home. >> it's miserably hot out here. i wouldn't expect for people to be wearing masks. >> we're a little concerned. we don't want to rush back into it. we've been doing takeout. we're not ready to sit in a restaurant yet. >> reporter: it's worth noting that a lot of the folks i spoke

to are essential workers so they've been going to work for the past couple of months and now it doesn't seem any different to be allowed to go to the beach, go to the store. so folks are happy about it, alicia. >> priscilla, thanks so much. as states reopen, face masks have become part of the new normal during the coronavirus outbreak. but in the deaf community this guideline has become tricky, as those who are hard of hearing rely on reading lips and seeing facial ex sprekzs as a vital form of communication. deepa, what are some of the challenges people who are deaf and hard of hearing are facing? >> it's been really frustrating for a lot of people in the deaf and hard of hearing community. these face masks are essential, they are required in a lot of places, at a lot of businesses. but it is becoming a huge barrier for these communities to be able to communicate with others in very normal situations, going to the grocery store, going to the bank, picking up a prescription.

with these masks covering most of people's faces, it's hard to pick up these facial cues. and for some people it's hard to read lips as well. so you're kind of taking away the grammar and people who rely on these visual communications in order to make conversation and get along. so even simple things like you're checking out at a store and someone asks behind the counter if you're paying cash or credit, he can't see that if it's being covered by a mask. so getting through day-to-day interactions in addition to seeking medical care, which is more complicated, it's a barrier and it's becoming complicated for a lot of people who are deaf and hard of hearing. i spoke to one professor in california that teaches american sign language and here's what she had to say about it. take a listen. >> i think having other alternative methods of communication, and not expecting

everyone to hear, we can't assume that everyone has all their sensory abilities intact and we can't imagine that there is one way of navigating this interaction. >> you can see a big part of this is for hearing people to understand that not everyone communicates the same way. if someone is not responding in a conversation, if someone is not getting back to you the way you think they would, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're ignoring you. we all have to keep in mind that communication comes in different forms and adapt to that and make sure in this process of staying safe and making sure that we're keeping our communities safe with face masks, we're also not leaving people behind in the sense of communicating, alicia. >> thank you so much. the fbi has announced that it will conduct an internal review of how the bureau handled the investigation into president

trump's former national security adviser michael flynn. the review will be handled by the fbi's inspection division. for more on that, let's bring in ken ken, our national security correspondent. what's the purpose of this review? >> officially the purpose is to determine whether any fbi employee, current employee, committed misconduct as part of the effort to investigate and question then national security adviser michael flynn. you'll recall that they were investigating and about to close the investigation and then they heard about his conversations with the russia ambassador and they went to question him in the white house. new notes have emerged that are raising some questions about their conduct and conservatives and republicans and donald trump have accused them essentially of misconduct. a lot of people are questioning whether this is in fact a political exercise, because the u.s. attorney in saint louis has already been scrutinizing this case. the justice department in an

unprecedented fashion were seeking to dismiss the charges even though flynn pleaded guilty. is it simply for donald trump, because christopher ray is under pressure from a lot of republicans in this matter, alicia. >> connect the dots for us. how does this relate to the push by the justice department officials to drop the flynn case entirely? >> it's not directly related to that because that is a doj matter and they're pushing to do that. but this goes further. this is like seeking to punish fbi employees for their conduct and most experts have said there was nothing here, and of course the scrutiny that's being given to the flynn case is much more than almost any other case i can think of, including cases where there were questionable uses of force by the if i where they've killed unarmed people. they don't generally look this closely with the inspection division at this case.

and if the inspection division finds that any fbi employee committed misconduct, they could be disciplined or lose their job. ironically enough, most of the fbi employees involved in this thing have since left so there's only a couple of people who are on the hook here. but it really smacks of trying to please the president and his allies rather than trying to get to the truth. >> ken, thanks so much. prosecutors are dropping the charges against the boyfriend of 26-year-old brianna taylor, a woman killed during what her family calls a botched police raid. initially authorities charged 27-year-old kenneth walker with attempted murder saying he shot a police officer when they forced their way into brianna taylor's home around 1:00 a.m. on march 13th. now the commonwealth's attorney is asking the court to dismiss the pending grand jury indictment against walker until investigations by the fbi, the u.s. attorney's office and the state attorney general's office are completed.

in a statement, the attorney representing taylor's family says while dismissing the charges is the right thing to do, it comes more than two months after brianna was killed and kenneth was arrested. the police spent these months defending their actions and smearing their good names. this is just another step of the pd taking full responsibility for its actions. taylor's family has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the police department saying walker fired at officers in self-defense because he thought he and taylor were being robbed. the three officers responded by bloi blindly firing more than 20 shots into the apartment according to the lawsuit. the police department says the officers did knock and announce their presence but were met with gunfire after forcing their way in. the officers have currently been on administrative leave pending an investigation. up next, joe biden has walked back a controversial comment he made about black voters. we'll tell you what he's saying

now about his relationship with minority communities. plus, america is reopening but are the customers coming back? georgia was one of the first states to reopen its economy. we'll take a look at how that's going for business owners a little later in the hour. can my side be firm? and my side super soft? yes, with the sleep number 360 smart bed, on sale now, you can both adjust your comfort with your sleep number setting. can it help me fall asleep faster? yes, by gently warming your feet. but can it help keep me asleep? absolutely, it intelligently senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable.

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controversial comments he made to a prominent black radio host this week. >> it's a long way until november. we've got more questions. >> you've got more questions. if you have a problem figuring out if you're for me or trump, you ain't black. >> it doesn't have to do with trump. it has to do with the fact that i want something for my community. >> he apologized just a short time later. >> listen, you've got to come see us when you come to new york. >> i will. >> it's a long way until november. we've got more questions. >> you've got more questions. if you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or

trump, you ain't black. >> it doesn't have nothing to do with trump. it has to do with the fact i want something for my community. >> take a look at my record, man. i extended the voting regs 25 years. i have a record that is second to none. >> the last thing i want to do and i shouldn't have been such a wise guy. i shouldn't have been so cavalier in responding to what i thought was -- anyway, i don't take it for granted at all and no one, no one should have to vote for any party based on their race, their religion, their background. >> with me to discuss, al aeks thompson, national correspondent for politico and a content executive and an msnbc contributor. in that apology, there is a phrase that stood out to me, which is i don't take it for granted, that so much of the argument for why joe biden won the primary, the support he's going to need in order to win the general comes down to black voters. what is the damage that has been done by these comments?

>> so i think you have to think about this in sort of two ways. one, there are two narratives that permeate the media when it comes to joe biden, one that he is gaffe prone, and two, that he may have a not great history when it comes to issues of the black community when you take into account the crime bill and anita hill. so this one statement sort of plays into both of those gaffes. so the fact that he walked it back in the black economic speech afterwards is a good sign that he's listening to people and he hears that. but the thing he also has to understand, and this is sort of more personal for me than it is political, is that it's really hard for black people to hear, you know, someone try to define who we are when this country has a history of hundreds of years of racism where our bodies were defined by white people. so he stepped into that. it does seem that he knew that

he had immediately made some kind of mistake and has to continue this conversation. so the next thing is to continue to convince people that he wants to have that conversation, not just about that one gaffe. charlamane got into a lot of issues that joe biden is still trying to talk about and explain. if he can go ahead and keep having those conversations and keep understanding that and talking to the black community, it's not a bad thing he went on the show. it means he's talking to the community he needs to show up and vote, then hopefully he can learn something from this and we can continue to move forward and have a better understanding of what his policies for the black community will be. but he will have to contend with those two narratives that permeate joe biden's campaign. >> alex, i was so struck by how he came right back to him and said this isn't about that, this is about having things that you believe this community deserves and wanting a real commitment to have those things delivered on behalf of the community. it's not enough to say i'm not

donald trump. has joe biden learned that lesson? >> we're going to find out over the next few months here. the striking thing about this was that it really played into the trump campaign's strategy for this election. since november, the trump campaign has been incredibly focused on improving and courting the black vote. part of that was appealing to suburban women and showing that some of his comments that people felt were incense tiv or racist, he's appealing to black voters. the state of the union was all about black unemployment. the campaign sent $10 million on a super bowl commercial talking about criminal justice reform. the disproportionate effect of covid-19 on the black community has really hurt that strategy and it has caused the trump campaign to really wonder if they can improve their ability

to court black votes. it's not about winning the black vote. it's about getting it from 8%, which is where they were in 2016, to 10%, 12%, 14%, which could be a difference in philadelphia, milwaukee, detroit. what this gaffe did was it gave the trump campaign a way back in. now you're going to see in the next week they already committed to spending $1 million online highlighting this gaffe. they've already cut an ad that is all about joe biden's record about the crime bill and other things that they talked about last night on another channel. he talked about joe biden backed the crime bill, he backed different tough on crime laws in the '80s. so you're going to see a lot more of this in the coming months and we'll see what joe biden has really learned. >> shawna, after the enter vun charlamane said a black woman running mate is necessary,

especially after today. >> i don't know how it wouldn't shape the campaign's thinking about who they want in that spot. i think the importance and the conversation around joe biden choosing a black women to be his vice presidential nominee is less about just black people are going to vote for joe biden if he chooses a black women. it's more about knowing that someone in a high position in that campaign who looks like me has a say in what's going on. it's part of that conversation about educating joe biden, educating his campaign, about what to say. but also what their policies should be. when you see that very visible symbol of it, i think it isn't just that person looks like me. it's about that person has some of my experiences, has some of my knowledge. not all the same, nobody is all the same. but it's confidence that, hey, my point of view will be in the room and that when something like this happens -- like we're going to forget about this particular comment probably by, you know, october or november. but the symbol of someone who is

a black woman in the room, they can have that conversation with joe biden and be like, okay, this is why that was kind of hurtful, but here's what we can do about it and here is how our policy should go. so yeah, it will influence, i think, the conversation. but i think everything is influencing the conversation about who he should choose as his vice president. >> alex, you have amy klobuchar and val demmings saying they are being vetted. not a ton of surprises on the list. you know how sometimes there is the meeting before the meeting, if there is a list before the list. how seriously should we take the list that is now floating around? >> i think you have to realize that there are tiers here and that sometimes the vice presidential list, this broad list in some ways can be used as favors or a way to drive media cycles. you say we are vetting this person and you are really vetting them. but joe biden has made clear that he views this process very

similar to how obama did in 2008 and obama was clear that he thought it was important to select someone who had run for president before because the on-ramp to take in the media craziness, the craziness that comes with being in this world of the presidential campaign, especially one against donald trump where things are coming at you constantly, the experience of having been in that world before. so it makes joe biden think according to some allies that he's really prioritizing people that have run for president before. that includes kamala harris, elizabeth warren, amy klobuchar. if you want a list within the list, that's it. >> all right, alex and shawna, thank you. tomorrow morning don't miss a.m. joy. joy reid has charlamagne tha god. it can be hard to keep up with the latest guidance from doctors on covid-19 so i'll talk

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the cdc is clarifying what it has learned about the transmission of the coronavirus. specifically when it comes to touching surfaces that may have the virus on them. joining me now is an emergency medicine physician and an associate professor at oregon health and science university. doctor, does this mean i can stop wiping down every surface in my house and every package that comes into my door? >> well, you can do it without being too obsessed about it. this is one area where maybe the messaging wasn't as clear as it should have been from the beginning. we knew all along that viruses actually can thrive on surfaces for quite a long time, sometimes for days. but at the same time if we're

talking about transmitting virus from one surface to another like, say, your grocery bag touches a surface that's contaminated, you transfer it to your car, your kitchen, you unpack your groceries, how obsessive do you need to be about disinfecting absolutely everything that walks into your house like that. the truth is, needing to leap from surface to surface really challenges the virus and doesn't give it much of a chance to be at a meaningful mode of transmission. and we've known that most of the spread occurs person-to-person through droplets and direct contact. so i think we can't stop wiping down surfaces, particularly in high traffic areas and schools, classrooms, surfaces like at banks and grocery stores where there's a ton of people touching it with a lot of contact from a big population, we still need to be really good in public spaces about disinfecting.

>> that's my next question. how does it factor into all of these conversations about reopening? >> i think it just is a reminder that when it comes to reopening and a lot of people coming out together and congregating or frequenting any one place in high numbers, every little thing helps. so in those settings we can't stop common sense things like disinfecting surfaces, along with a host of other behaviors like social distancing and wearing face masks. so even though any one measure may not be the 100% thing we need, i think we need to keep going all these things that might help a little bit. >> this week the president claimed he had been taking hydroxychloroquine daily to prevent coronavirus. the fda put out a warning to americans stating that misuse of the drug can cause heart problems. what are doctors saying to their

patients about this drug? >> overall there's a lot of data coming out that hydroxychloroquine has very serious side effects, and actually can be so harmful. so there are still clinical trials happening right now looking at whether hydroxychloroquine anywhere in the disease course from prevention all the way to treatment of very sick patients has any benefit. a large study came out yesterday published that showed in a population of almost 100,000 patients with documented covid, who were treated with hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine in combination with another medication or alone, actually led to more meaningful cardiac events and even death. so that's not to say we can't use it at all. it's just that it has established harms and its use in any one patient should be very -- should be a carefully

made decision in conjunction with a doctor who considers all the other medications you're on and your own risk factors for having an adverse consequence from this disease. it should not be taken lightly, it should not be snapped up at the drugstore so that people can take it whenever they're worried about getting covid. this could actually be very harmful to people. >> we're seeing an increase in the reports of side effects of coronavirus appearing in children, an estimated 100 cases in new york alone. what is kawasaki's disease and what is the correlation between the disease and covid-19? >> yeah, this seems like something that we're familiar with. so kawasaki disease has been around for a long time. it's a relatively rare syndrome or collection of symptoms of disease manifestations that affects a lot of organs and it generally occurs in very young children and usually is associated with having had a virus. our best understanding of it is that it's kind of an overreaction from the immune

system where a healthy immune system can kind of attack the body and affect many organs, most concerningly the heart. so children who have this kawasaki-like disease risk having cardiac arrhythmias and inflammation of the heart. so really concerning, but still very rare. we have to remember that children are getting this disease and this is a very rare complication of a relatively rare disease for children. but as the numbers grow of people with covid-19, we're going to see even these rare complications in higher and higher numbers. so we're in the medical community kind of scrambling to understand what this is for this inflammatory syndrome that seems to follow covid-19. we're seeing it actually in older children all the way up to adolescents, so people in their early 20s.

so the question remains do the treatments that we've been applying to kawasaki disease also apply to this new multiorgan inflammatory state associated with covid. we are trying to figure it out and hopefully the next weeks and months will give us a lot more information so we can figure out how to prevent this and treat it effectively. >> doctor, thank you. for some americans, staying at home during the coronavirus outbreak does not give a sense of safety. for victims of domestic violence, quarantining with their abuser is a nightmare. dan lieberman joins us now with more. you've been speaking with victims and the people who are trying to help them. what have they told you? >> reporter: it's good to be with you. we've been speaking with victims of domestic violence, their advocates and law enforcement. all of them describe a terrifying picture of abuse during the pandemic. in new york, the help hotline has seen a 30% increase in calls

in domestic violence. we spoke with a law enforcement officer, an nypd officer in the bronx in new york. here's what he told me. >> nypd police officer john theos has spent seven years working in the domestic violence unit in the bronx. he says his precinct has one of the highest percentages of domestic violence incidents in the city. >> on sunday we had a victim call and she just wanted information about shelter. you could hear the trembling in her voice. i asked her name and it turned out she had an active order protection against the male who was recently arrested for abusing her. i kept her on the phone and let her talk and you could hear him in the background. it turned out that he had just physically abused her and was violating the order of protection. >> you heard the officer. they caught the abuser, arrested him and charges with pending. but this is just a pattern why the nypd and law enforcement

around the country are having to listen even more closely to calls coming in from victims experiencing this abuse. and they're digging deeper. nypd tells us that they're digging deeper into 911 calls and 311 calls. those are noise complaints that may be coming in. they're looking for indicators that may suggest domestic violence may be occurring in someone's home and they're following up on that. so it's police, also advocates who are helping victims of domestic violence. they're having to do new strategies to try to help victims during this time when we're all locked down across the country and globally, too. >> thanks, dan. you can watch dan's full story on "the report" by nbc news. up next, america is reopening, but is it recovering? we'll show you what's happening in georgia and why there are signs it could be a long road to the new normal for businesses.

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led the way, the people of georgia have led the way, demonstrating each and every day that it's possible to open up restaurants again, like this great restaurant, in a very real sense. i think history will record that georgia helped lead the way back to a prosperous american economy. >> that was vice president mike

pence praising georgia's reopening efforts while visiting the state this week and claiming it is setting an example for the rest of the nation. however, it may serve as more of a cautionary tale as other states restart their economies. economic data shows the state is still seeing a steady stream of new unemployment claims. over 2 million workers in georgia have filed for unemployment in nine weeks according to a review of the labor department's data. currently there are 42,052 cases in georgia and over 1,800 deaths. we have the associate director of state and local finance at georgia state university. laura, thanks so much for being with us. help me make sense of the numbers we just laid out. what do they tell you? >> well, a lot of damage has gone on in the economy because of this. but, you know, some jobs are going to come back, some are going to be quicker than others.

there are the retail and restaurants that are opening up in some capacity. they're not at full capacity. but they are opening up at some capacity. and so it's going to be a long haul. there may be -- there are other workers perhaps in the wings that may be at risk and that's kind of where the uncertainty lies. businesses are coming back, and bringing back some of these workers. there are workers that may be unemployed that in future months will be at risk of job loss, as businesses kind of decide what this new norm looks like and how to operate in this environment where we're going to coexist with the coronavirus. and so there may be more layoffs to come from the business sector and then also state and local governments are very much at

risk in terms of the job loss. they are very much hemorrhaging in terms of their tax revenue. >> you have businesses reopening, but there's no real business unless there are consumers. what does it mean for these businesses to be reopening as consumer confidence remains so low? >> yeah, so the economy, if consumers aren't comfortable coming back, that's going to be a problem. both consumers and businesses are facing really dramatic uncertainty right now and that's a real problem for the economy. when consumers are uncertain, they're going to hold back on their spending. they may go out to some restaurants, but they're not going to make big ticket

purchases like cars or houses. those are going to be -- we're going to continue to see some weakness in consumers being willing to take on those big-ticket items that require debt, and some certainty about their future employment. so that's going to be a real problem. >> all right. laura, thank you. coming up, america's restaurants are struggling to survive, but before you click on your favorite delivery app, there's something you should know. why owners say you might be doing more harm than good next.

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food delivery is one of the only lifelines restaurants have had during this pandemic, but some restaurants say fees from delivery apps like grub hub and door dash are squeezing their businesses at a difficult time. some owners are turning away from apps saying their taking as much as a 30% cut from their revenue. the apps say the commission fee

is needed to pay their essential workers who deliver the food. in response to the pandemic the app cut fees in half for all mom and pop restaurants in the u.s. let's bring in vanessa wong. it costs a lot for restaurants to hire delivery staff. why are these apps not necessarily the answer for them? >> i mean, that's exactly it. it's just very expensive for restaurants to use grub hub and uber eats and other apps. as you mention they charge restaurants fees ranging from 15% to 20% of each transaction, which is quite a lot in a business where the margin is already very slim. so on grub hub, for example, depending on how much a commission you sign-up for when you agree to enter into business to them, the idea is the greater commission you pay to them the more you get from the platform in terms of marketing. at some point you can't outspend

yourself and increase the percent of commission you're paying to get more marketing, because you're taking out of your own profit at the end of the day, and it puts restaurants essentially in a position where they're working more for less money. >> at the same time, i want to be very clear grub hub, door dash, uber eats are all losing millions of dollars per quarter. how are all of these company not making money? >> that's exactly the thing. this model right now doesn't seem to be working out for anybody, so restaurants are complaining the fees are too high. meanwhile the apps are also not making money or barely breaking even in some cases. but, you know, they are middle men and they have their own expenses. so grubhub, for example, has about 2,700 employees and that's like a lot of engineers and sales and customer service rep and it's not even counting the drivers who are considered in

the contract rather than full time employees. so they have a lot of overhead and that's in addition to a restaurant paying them for the actual marketing and advertising of their business. so there was an interesting post about how the delivery business itself isn't impossible, the success of dominos at this time shows you can do a delivery business that makes sense and makes money. but dominos and other traditional pizza like companies develop that model over the years in-house rather than trying to hire it out to a third party that had a lot of its own costs and was being bolstered by investors. >> right, and even in that example we're not talking about a mom and pop shop. what is the best answer for a mom and pop shop? >> it really depends. i mean, there's sort of this debate going on right now about what people should be doing, and i think it really depends on the restaurant. you know, there are some restaurants that do rely on

third party apps for online ordering and delivering and don't have the infrastructure to do anything else. but, you know, there are others who are taking to social media and, you know, other forms of communication with their customers either through directly their own website or to call the restaurant directly through their own phone number which is not the grubhub which also results in a kmegz to a third party. i think at this time when a lot of the country remains on lockdown they're probably still very happy to be serving their customers in any way, but i think the worst thing for people to order on these apps without understanding how it impacts the businesses that serve their communities. >> you have cities that are capping the delivery fees. do you think that is a trend you're going to see continue? >> i think as long as we're dealing the coronavirus it's going to be happening more

often. i mean, you know, you were mentioning there were fee caps in like seattle, san francisco, new york, l.a. it's happening in a lot of the big businesses that have very vibrant restaurant cultures. you know, i think it's probably going to happen more on the local level. there's a question about whether there would be a national cap and i think the federal government has a lot to deal with right now. i'm not sure it's their top priority even though the restaurant business obviously employs millions of people including millions that are unemployed at the moment. >> thanks, vanessa. that wraps it up for this hour. my colleague takes over at the top of the hour. he'll talk to congresswoman brenda lawrence and i'll be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern where i'll talk to the senior advisor to the biden campaign. we'll talk about her plans to expand support. coming up on msnbc. o expand support coming up on msnbc

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hey there. i'm joshua johnson. good to be with you today from nbc news in new york. on this memorial day weekend president trump says he wants you to get back out there, to the beaches, to church to life as normal. we'll show you how he's trying to lead by example on that front. all 50 states are in some form of reopening. still this is anything but a holiday weekend across america. our reporters on the ground will give us a sense of that just ahead. we begin with the latest sobering numbers