tv MSNBC Live MSNBC May 24, 2020 4:00am-5:01am PDT
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good morning and welcome to a special sunday edition of "morning joe." it is may 24th. we come on the air as the national death toll approaches 100,000 killed by covid-19. it's a staggering figure illustrated in striking terms on the front page of today's "new york times." here 1,000 names, just a fraction of the overall loss, are stacked side-by-side, top to bottom, in what the paper calls an incalculable loss. they were not just names on a list, they were us. among them, romi cone, 91, from
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new york city. saved 56 jewish families from the gestapo. lavinia henderson who was 44 from new york, a proud, single mother of three. allen lund, 81, from washington. a conductors with the most amazing ear. teresa eloe from new orleans, renowned for her business making detailed pins and corsages. and kobe adolf who was 44 from chicago, an entrepreneur and an adventurer. lila fenwick was the first black woman to graduate from harvard law school. we come on the air this morning ahead of memorial day, a time in which the country pauses to remember its veterans, all those who gave the last full measure of devotion, and all those still serving today. we come on the air in search of
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leadership, leadership for a nation in crisis in the middle of a human catastrophe, for a people divided, and for the chance to get this country back on firm footing. along with joe and me we have white house reporter for the associated press, columnist and associate editor for "the washington post" david ignatius, and historian and author of "the soul of america," jon meacham. >> jon, i look through these names and there's dwayne valk from mission, kansas, a proud army vet who served in world war ii. mary santiago from evanston, illinois, who just loved being a mom. april dunn, a 33-year-old advocate for disability rights in louisiana. thomas reel from newton, pennsylvania, who was at peace most when he was on his harley.
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like "the times" said, they were us. a green bay packers ticket holder, the leader of a prayer circle, a college basketball assist winner, a tony award winning writer, an innovative high school principal, a nurse in the covid fight, an assistant pastor, and a dad who dedicated his entire life to his children. and, jon, there seems to be no historical parallel though i know a lot of people remember back in 1969 when "life" magazine showed one week's dead in vietnam and it jarred the nation to its core. i suspect this will serve as a wake-up call for those who thought we could just sort of turn our eyes and move on. >> i salute "the new york times"
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for brilliant use of design to convey a point, and for those who suspect that print has no role, exhibit a to this edition of the newspaper. in the business you call small type agate type. they have managed to convey something that the president of the united states in many ways does not want conveyed, which is the scope and scale and depth of the cost of this pandemic. and i think you're right about the "life "magazine piece. i remember "the times" also did a remarkable job of 9/11. >> right. >> with the lives we lost. and it's a reminder that for all of our conversations about
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politics and personalities that fundamentally this is about people. it's about human beings. and the root of the word politics is from city, a collection of people. that's the meaning of it. and i think that the pandemic has, in a way that even war does not have, this universality of threat. we talked about it and i thought looking back beginning of march perhaps we would avoid a partisan pandemic. we have not. but we have the capacity always to address our issues with some national purpose if we had the right leadership. >> well, i will say, mika, if
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you look at what americans have done, if you ignore a lot of the destructive nonsense coming out of washington and just look at what americans have done, what they're telling pollsters but, more importantly, the fact that in the state of florida, for instance, studies have shown and there's been reporting that just following cell phone data that floridians sheltered in place and began protecting their families even when their leaders were bumbling about. and we did bend the curve. we did that as a nation. unfortunately, so many politicians, and, yes, republicans mainly, but there were some democrats who were a little slow in moving forward. americans did that. and still only 8% of americans are saying they don't want to wear a mask. the overwhelming majority are not only worried about themselves and families but are actually concerned about others. >> and if you look at the
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losses, joseph w. hammond, who was 64 in chicago who stopped working to look after his aging parents. stanley tera, 77, a new york city developer and a friend of the president. mary lou armer, 43 years old from sonoma valley, california, a veteran police detective. daniel specter, 68, from memphis, a mentor to other artists. dale thurmond who was 65 from lexington, a tailor known for his exacting work and strong opinions. and thomas waters who was 56 from new york city who armed the affordable housing movement with data and analysis. >> david ignatius, these are those who we've lost as we move toward 100,000. as jon meacham brought up, we all remember reading "the new
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york times" and the faces of those we lost on 9/11, and that loss seemed so incalculable. >> unimaginable. >> we lost that many people in a single day in this pandemic. a single day in april when the president of the united states said it was going to magically go away. the same president who in january said that this was just one person coming in from china and it was going to go away. look at the 100,000 dead. it didn't go away. or what he said end of february. we said it on the show before. end of february, he said it's only 15 people. soon it will be down to zero. we've done a great job. there's nothing to worry about. or in march even he was asked after receiving panicked cries from his own administration over
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a month and a half ago. peter navarro saying over 100,000 souls could be lost. that was in march. we have a president running this who still is saying he's not worried at all. it'll go away. assuring republican senators, don't worry about it. so we look at those names. we hear those stories. we look at the incalculable loss and there's a great concern about what's ahead of us because while we're being warned once again like the president was warned before, this time we're being warned about the fall, we have someone engaged saying don't worry about the fall. it's not coming back. >> joe, when we look at that "new york times" front page, and i think it will stick and
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remember what it looked and felt like, it looks almost like a tombstone, all that black tape you see as a marker of what we've lived through. and yet as you begin to read the stories, it's not a tombstone, it's almost a mosaic of who we are. you read each little fragment. each of these little stories that capture small details about people, what they loved, what they're good at, what mattered to them. i think we're all feeling that in some ways this is a wartime like feeling, right before memorial day so obviously that comes to mind. i found myself thinking what are we fighting for in this war? every generation that has adversity i think asks two questions. one is, is there unity of
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effort? are we all pulling together for the same goals as we're in this terrible struggle? as we see the death toll come back. i know that was true for my parents' generation, my grandparen grandparents'. the second thing is what comes after this? what's the world that we're fighting to bring into being that will be different where the things we see and that trouble us aren't so present? that's what i hope we'll think about the day after and the day after. what are we fighting for? what do we want to keep people alive for? and i think it has to be a different kind of country. it has to be a country that feels fair. it has to be a country less crazily divided. we can't keep living the way we are now. a different america will emerge from that list of names, 1,000 names, the incalculable loss "the new york times" showed us this morning. i hope we'll think what country
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do we build now? >> and the stories really bring that message home. sterling e. matthews was 60 from midlothian, virginia, a cancer survivor who served as a deacon. another was 38 years old from palm beach, florida. served for the palm beach county sheriff's office for 14 years. and kira schwarz was 33 from new york who volunteered for pet rescue organizations all the time. >> a 33-year-old new yorker who helped with pet rescue, a 38-year-old florida sheriff, the stories continue and, again, the loss is staggering. jonathan, what is the white house reaction to where we find ourselves now? the president, though he criticized barack obama, was, of
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course, for golfing, has golfed so much more than barack obama this far in and did it again yesterday in the midst of this crisis. also insulted his last opponent, re-tweeting something that called her a, quote, skank. constant attacks for nancy pelo pelosi. even though america, for the most part, has come together to bend the curve, this president does not seem to be anything resembling a president that wants to bring the country together. more and more people are concerned that he's unmoored. and more, i think, tragically, unmoved by the nearly 100,000 dead americans. >> joe, a note on the front page of "the new york times" first i
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think is so powerful about the list of names is that it's what's not there. it was on displayed on the front page is only 1/100th. a number that is only going to increase. only going increase dramatically as the months go on particularly if there are subsequent waves. when you and jon meacham were talking about the portraits of grief "the times" did so movingly after september 11th, they basically said they can't do a similar effort here. that was 3,000 names this is 100,000 and climbing. there's no way to report out, write out every story, every story of a life lost to this pandemic. in terms of the white house, the president yesterday resumed golfing. it was his first time since the pandemic really came to american shores. he traveled to his golf club in suburban, virginia. it's part of his effort to show
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americans that things are getting back to normal. it's memorial day weekend. we are seeing beaches, some beaches crowded disturbingly without any social distancing. we are seeing the president taking weekly trips now to battleground states. he was, of course, in michigan this past week. there was a flap about him not wearing a mask in public. he is trying to turn the page on the public health crisis part of this and really focus on the economy. he did that yesterday, a sign of returning back to regular life by golfing, coming on the heels of dr. birx friday stressing over and over and over that golfing in particular will be something that would be safe. the president is going to travel again this week. he's going to mark memorial day at arlington national cemetery, an event in baltimore as well. he's expected to go to florida later in the week additionally. right now this is "the times" yesterday, that moving tribute. that is not where this white house is. it took until this weekend, in
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fact, joe and mika, for them to finally lower the flags to half-mast as a tribute to those who have died. >> i just want to point two more names out to you, joe, because there was a mention of the portraits of grief on 9/11. these somehow sting. mike field, who was 59, he's from valley stream, new york. he was a first responder during the 9/11 attacks. and albert petrocelli, 73, was a fire chief, who answered the call on 9/11. and i remember the police officers and the fire chiefs and the fire and rescue officials who were hiding in a school on 9/11. i was in there with them and i remember them running back into the buildings knowing perhaps it would be the last moment they spoke on the phone with their wives, but they did it. they served. they served, they responded, and answered the call. and yet this country was
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terribly unprepared to save them. >> you always talked about how as one of the towers came down you all went running into a school and there were the first responders. >> they were incredible. >> they were in there with you. >> even before the dust settled they were crawling out the front door making their way back to the towers. jon meacham, you have written a book that so many americans connected with, "the soul of america." and just would love for you to give us a few thoughts this sunday morning about the soul of america and, to me at least, there seems to be great contrast between the soul of america and some of our leadership in washington, d.c. and around the country in governor's mansions. because when you see as many
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americans come together as they did to bend the curve, you suddenly realized that pictures of people carrying military style weapons and screaming and yelling and abusing law enforcement officers are surrounding a reporter in minnesota and screaming at him, yelling at him and pushing him and telling him to take off his mask, that actually we may be doing a disservice showing those clips because they account for such a small portion of america and such a dark sliver of america's soul because, all in all, americans have stepped up. they've been strong and they've done what they had to do to bend the curve. >> the word soul itself means breath or life in hebrew. in genesis when god breathes
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life into man that word can be translated as soul. when jesus said greater love and the soul was the essence of where we are. socrates wrote it as a pagan and religious thought. the question is what is the freedpredominant feature you we just saying of that soul. to my mind it's an arena of contention between our better angels and our worst instincts. and the great thing about the united states has been that for all of our imperfections, for all of our derelictions, all of our shortcomings, for all of our sins, we have, in fact, bent the curve toward a more perfect union. we're not perfect yet. we're not going to be perfect. it was once said the tragedy of man is that he can perceive perfection but cannot conceive
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it. but the point is we're still here. we're fighting to make the country hopefully, to use david's term, stronger, fairer, more generally accepting of the full implications of the ideas that thomas jefferson, himself a flawed messenger, wrote in what was the most important sentence ever originally rendered in english, i would argue, that all men are created equal. we have always been stronger the more directly we realized the truth of that sentence and applied the strength of that sentence. we're always going to be flawed. there are always going to be those folks, as you say, with the assault weapons, always people standing at a rally saying keep the government out of my medicare. there's just -- we're going to deal with that forever.
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and it's probably a fairly high percentage. probably 30%, 35% of the country are not going to want for various reasons to participate in a covenant of generosity. but the covenant of generosity is what makes america america. i'll leave you with this. what i would urge people who blindly support the president or blindly support either side, think about this. what do we commemorate? what do we celebrate? we don't commemorate and celebrate hours of selfishness. we don't commemorate and celebrate people who don't help, who run away from those buildings, as mika was saying. we commemorate and celebrate the civil rights act, the voting rights act, world war ii. we don't celebrate the
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isolationists. do we talk about 1930s or do we talk about 1941 forward? self-evidentlily we talk about 1941 forward. we talk about hitting the beaches at normandy trying to liberate the camps. we don't talk about the fact charles lindbergh talked about america first and a silent majority. there's a vernacular of selfishness that runs throughout the country but there's also, god willing, these instincts to heed those better angels, and that's where you want to be, the side of history you want to be on. >> and we have them still outnumbered. >> we're looking at the names profiled by "the new york times" as we go to break. orlando mankata was 56 of bronxville, new york. he left peru to grab hold of the american dream. john of terre haute, indiana, a
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volunteer youth football coach. and a 22-year-old, israel was a new father. jon meacham, thank you very much. some of the must-read opinion pages. plus, joe biden warned back in january about the threat posed by the coronavirus and president trump's inability to manage it. the former vice president is out with a new ad about the crisis, and we'll show it to you next. where ore-ida golden crinkles are your crispy currency to pay for bites of this... ...with this. when kids won't eat dinner, potato pay them to. ore-ida. win at mealtime. that liberty mutual customizes your insurance, i just love hitting the open road and telling people potato pay them to. so you only pay for what you need! [squawks] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ truly transformative sleep.
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yesterday. >> it's a new ad from the biden campaign as president trump hit the links this memorial day weekend. getting out for some golf, joe. >> we talk about campaigns being about contrasts. obviously the biden camp put that out, very fast turnaround. >> that was him yesterday. >> and came out at a time when, again, "the new york times" puts up as their front page just 1,000 of the lives lost from this. you do have a real contrast, of course. you look at those deaths and joe biden and others will be reminding this president that in january at the same time joe biden was warning that americans weren't prepared for the pandemic, that trump wasn't prepared for the pandemic, that he needed to let doctors and nurses talk to americans and plan for the pandemic, donald
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trump was saying in davos it was just one person coming in from china. now nearly 100,000 are dead. at the same time peter navarro, at the same time joe biden wrote his op-ed and warning, peter navarro inside the white house was issuing a similar warning inside the white house to the president that up to 500,000 souls could be lost. we will see what the number ends up being after this fall. but you go into february and donald trump said it's 15 people. only 15 people were doing a great job. soon it will be down to zero. then march the president told reporters he wasn't worried at all. they were doing a great job and things were going to end up fine. of course in april the president with the finest doctors in the world, the finest research universities in the world, the brightest minds in the world
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that he could have access to, the president instead was asking dr. birx to look into injecting disinfectants into patients' bodies, talked about hydroxychloroquine. also, of course, talked about the fact that this fall the virus probably wouldn't come back. david ignatius, the present was corrected by dr. fauci in real time. the fda had to put out warnings. the va put out studies. this president has been warned. the american people have been warned time and time again not to listen to the president's rambli ramblings. and i just wonder if we will finally get to a time where americans when they go to vote understand that experience matters, that intellect matters, that just getting somebody who is an outsider who doesn't know
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how washington works matters. that has been our instinct to go the last 20 years, find somebody who is an outsider who will shake things up. i wonder if this terrible american tragedy will actually remind voters again that wisdom, experience, knowledge, compassion, and temperament, like fdr's temperament. that temperament matters as well. >> joe, i think you're right to characterize this coming presidential election, in effect, as a character test for the country. people really need to make mature decisions about the kind of leadership that we need to get us from this period where we look at the front page of "the
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new york times," names of the people who died, and as mika said, that's a fraction of the total number, and find leadership that can bring the country back to its better days. and i think part of that we need to be honest is joe biden, the presumptive democratic nominee, showing the country he's that person, that he has those capabilities to be not just an adequate leader but a great leader because that's what the country needs right now. and i think when we try to step back and imagine what this election will be about as the world views it, this is a test of whether democracy can really rise to a great challenge, a catastrophe that we're living through. democracies are noisy. they're all scatter shot, competing views. can they organize themselves to be strong and powerful in responding to a crisis?
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is our decentralized system of medicine -- we don't have a national health care system like so many countries. can our decentralized system rally so that we end up getting the vaccine, the therapies that are going to, in the end, mark the end of this. we are a federalist system. we're not like china, a top down state. we're federalists. our founders didn't want a single unit. they wanted 50 states. each with a somewhat different response. how is that working? you can say a lot of evidence is working well but some that it isn't. so i think as we head to november we should think as the world is thinking as they watch our election this is is a character test for america. is american democracy as strong as we always thought it was? are the american people wise in the decisions they make? will they pick leaders not just who are good for america but who are good for the world?
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that's really what's at stake. >> and will they pick leaders, mika, that follow the advice in the middle of a pandemic of medical professionals, of the wisest people around in this area of the best scientists, of the great minds from a country that has been awarded over 50% of every noble prize for science since 1950, or will he continue talking about his gut? will he continue talking about injecting disinfectants into bodies or sticking lights into bodies, or drugs that cause heart problems? >> so you're just really putting a frame around the crazy extremes this president shows every day and every day it's something different, literally. and up against joe biden who shows this is who he is, this is who he was, and this is who he will be, someone who understands the magnitude of this crisis.
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someone who warned about it. someone who knows what to do moving forward because he's done it before. it's a pretty stark contrast during very divided times. coming up, joe alluded to the themes underpinning a powerful new column from maureen dowd. she writes the president, quote, is the leader of the resistance to his own government urging people and states to open up whenever they see fit, recommending clorox injections, stifling dr. fauci, refusing to wear the mask. we'll read more straight ahead. cleaning power of liquid.
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27-year-old, a 32-year-old, 33-year-old, 55-year-old, people in the prime of their life and also a lot of new york city cops, firefighters. joining us now host of msnbc's politics nation and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. we want to read from a piece, rev, by "new york times" op-ed columnist maureen dawd titled covid dreams, trump nightmares. he is running the government had a is responding to the worst pandemic in a century at the same time he is the leader of the resistance to his own government urging people and states to open up whenever they see fit, recommending clorox injections, stifling dr. fauci, refusing to wear the mask. he has a consuming desire to always be center stage yet he
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never wants to reveal who he really is. he masks his finances, his taxes, his friendships, his on going family conflicts of interest, his inadequacies. constantly making up areas of expertise he doesn't have. he doesn't read the bible, and he doesn't live as a christian and love thy neighbor. but he is demanding churches be reopened because his evangelical base will love that. everything he's doing right now is to stave off a loss in november. just as obama admitted at the end of his presidency that he had not always been attent tiiv enough for the simplistic displays of feelings and emotions, designed to satisfy the cable news hype fest, trump's presidency is all theatrics, all performance, all formed with no content.
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his script is the only truth. those of us who have donned protective masks to fight the virus have taken off our professional masks, makeup, now we see celebrities and journalists in their own habitats without hair and makeup, and that has made them seem more fully human. humanity is showing through everywhere, except ironically, with the unmasked trump. >> jonathan lemire, a line reminds me of an article you wrote about donald trump going through the difficult exercise of leading the resistance to his own government. he sets up white house guidelines and then the next day he starts seeming to undermine and attack the guidelines, re-tweets, resistance tweets, and soon people are showing up with military style weapons trying to shut down a
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democratically elected state legislature. that is the conflict here for a guy who is a day trader politically and in every other way as well. it's very hard in an election year to run a resistance to your own government while your own government is having to warn americans not to listen to your bleach and hydroxychloroquine medical suggestions. >> you're right, joe. maureen's column hits upon a theme of that piece and the tension that's within the trump campaign as they eye november less than six months away. the president only has a few plays in his playbook and one is to frame himself as the outsider. his team beliefs he is still seen as the person who is not part of the washington swamp, in their words and joe biden, someone who in d.c. was a senator and then vice president.
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this president, donald trump, he questions science. he questions the federal bureaucracy. he ignores the guidelines created by his own task force. he encourages the small group of protesters, many of them wearing make america great again apparel to congregate in front of state capitols, dangerously without much public support. he identifies with that as he's trying to tap in to that government anger that he was able to ride in 2016. this moment might call for something differently. first of all, this might not be a moment where having government experience and being a manager is a bad thing. vice president biden and his camp is leaning into that. they want to be seen as someone who is competent, who can be a technocrat if needed, has big ideas, can make government work. more than that it's about the president, how difficult it would be to deny and disavow your own record.
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he can play as the outsider, that's what he wants to do and his twitter feed was full of attacks on democratic politicians, media figures and everyone else, but it's hard to run away from your record. not only, of course, a struggling economy, which has been the president's focus, his effort to try to restart things but, of course, the death toll, the mistakes made, the signs missed. and, of course, a nation mourning, so eloquently put on the front page of "the new york times." >> so, reverend al, one of the ways the president tried to distract was getting people back to church. people who go to church want to get back to church. they're going to do it safely. they're not going to be listening to the president and, by the way, it wasn't the president's authority to do that anyway. you just said -- i saw yesterday you were talking about wanting to get back to church yourself, such a big part of your life and
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so many others that you know. when it's done it has to be done safely and not have some political statement that it's a political stunt. >> absolutely. you and i both are church people, joe. i can't imagine going back to church, getting on my knees -- and i still pray on my knees -- and thanki ining god for anothey of life and, by the way, god, i'm recklessly wrecking it. what would you do with con degree gant gregants that you are risking it. it is the problem of this president because not only do i agree with what you and mika have been saying all morning and what maureen dowd wrote about his lack of capacity to manage during this time. i think a lot of voters are also
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going to be looking for a president that can heal after the hurt, after the harm. we're going through a painful period, a period we're not going through in 100 years. we want someone who can bring us through it and heal us after. he does not display the capacity to be a healer at all. to be attacking people, media people and democrats on memorial day weekend while people are still dying does not tell us that he has the capacity to even feel for us and later to heal us. and that, i think, will be his detriment when the election comes. >> it's not a surprise, also, but he obviously doesn't know a whole lot of the bible because jesus in the sermon on the mount about how they pray. don't worry about it. don't go into the synagogues. don't feel like you have to go on street corners to pray for me.
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and make a public show out of it. if you need to just go into your room, go into your closet. >> your secret closet, that's right. >> and jesus said and i will hear you and god will hear you. so this idea that you can't worship god unless you pack into a church in an unsafe way, well, it just undermines the teachings of jesus, matthew 6:6. >> you are absolutely right. you're right. he talks about praying -- >> you need to be safe. go ahead. >> jesus said pray in your secret closet. and sometimes people that get in the privacy of their room and go on a viral service and can be devout and sincere today show in many ways a stronger belief than people who have to be seen going through rituals. that's that practice their religion today in private are
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showing a sincerity that they don't need on display. >> and a sincerity jesus talked about on is your mon the sermon mount. >> quote, people have suffered. they've been afraid. the ground on which they stand has shifted. many have been reviewing their lives thinking not only of what's important or what makes me happy but what was i designed to do. they've been conducting a kind of internal life review reflecting on the decision that seems small and turned out to be crucial, wondering about paths not taken, recognizing strokes of luck. they've been thinking about their religious faith or lack of it, about their relationships. phone calls have been longer, love more easily expressed. its lack more admitted. here is what i'm certain of. we will emerge a plainer people
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and a plainer country and maybe a deeper one. something big inside of us shifted. america is about to become a plainer place. maybe a deeper one, too, and maybe that's good. >> that is very talked about, mika. that this country is going through a change, and will emerge stronger because of it. coming up as we prepare to mark memorial day, the sacrifice paid by those in uniform, becomes somehow even more visceral amid this national crisis. we'll talk about the themes of honor and public service straight ahead on this special sunday edition of "morning joe." we're back in a moment. 't raise your rates just because of an accident. cut! is that good? no you were talking about allstate and... i just... when i... accident forgiveness from allstate. click or call for a quote today. wayfair has way more ways to renovate your home, accfrom inspirations to installation.
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not promise. prove. save $1,000 on the sleep number 360® special edition smart bed. plus 0% interest for 36 months & free premium delivery when you add a base. ends monday. and as we close on this special edition of "morning joe," the names of those lost to covid-19 as seen on the front page of the "new york times." jessica cortez was 32 years old. she was from los angeles.
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she immigrated to the united states three years ago. april dunn was 33. she was from baton rouge, louisiana advocate for disability rights. and cedric dixon, 48. new york city a police detective in harlem with a special gift for interrogation. joe? >> to you for final thoughts, jon lemire. >> i would encourage americans times" not to be overwhelmed. it's a snippet of a life giving you a window into a person. no better time on this memorial day as we honor those who gave their lives to this country to re-pick cher tho re-pick -- re-picture those who died by coronavirus. >> do not open places of worship
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today to public ceremonies. encourage people to worship privately at home, and if they have to go in to the public for any other reason, wear face masks and keep social distancing. love thy neighbor by demonstrating it. let your religion preach your actions today. >> and if there are services outside obviously much safer. social distance, just as you would at anything that you do. as we remember the victims, as we remember the lives that were lost unnecessarily, let us hope and let us pray this memorial day weekend that everyone can do a better job as we move forward to the fall and do a better job saving lives and keeping more americans healthy. >> that does it for us this morning. we'll be back at 6:00 a.m. tomorrow morning. ali velshi picks up the coverage
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nearly 100,000 american deaths due to coronavirus, but as every state partially reopened, researches warned of thousands more. a third major international agreement abandoned by the trump administration. why experts say pulling out is more than just a security risk. and the four-day workweek. just one way companies are
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