between, and all i know is that if covid-19 offers us an opportunity to be otherwise, this moment offers us an opportunity to really engage in critical self-reflection to imagine ourselves differently. >> you've given us a lot to reflect on, two good friends of our broadcast on this network, paul butler and eddie glaude. gentlemen, thank you both for taking the time to join us this afternoon. another break in our coverage. when we come back, the president eager for a distraction turns to a war with twitter, taking aim at his favorite social media platform where he lives by day and the irony of that move is not lost on anyone watching.

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amid a pandemic and violent protests as we've been discussing in minneapolis, today the president is focused on twitter. he's set to sign an executive order this afternoon that limits protections for social media platforms. this comes after the president accused twitter of intervening in the presidential election because they have chosen to fact check in the most benign manner two of his tweets. those posts made unfounded and false claims about mail-in voting and the possibility for fraud. here's what the advisories look like, a little footnote that reads, quote, get the facts on mail-in ballots.

it is the first time twitter has pushed back on the president's votes which have pedalled conspiracy theories and misinformation to millions of his followers for years. jim rudenberg is a writer for "the new york times" and a media columnist and a white house reporter during his two decades in the business and in 2018 he was part of a "times" reporting team that won the pulitzer prize for public service. jim, i don't mean to bring you into the op-ed business, but tell me why this is anything but a giant shiny object, distraction for the president of the united states with the death toll now north of 100,000 souls. >> well, brian, thanks. first of all, it is legally beyond questionable that the president doesn't have the power to dictate this. there's law involved here. and second of all, you pointed out this is a real overreach when all twitter did was put a simple fact checking bug on a tweet, something that they

arguably should have done a long time ago. >> and jim, for folks trying to figure this out, twitter, facebook, how do they define themselves as opposed to how we see them? i know they don't see themselves as publishers so much as open platforms that can't possibly be responsible to chase down millions of posts per day. is that about right? >> that is right. the constant debate that they've been engaged in, pressed by at times people like me and my media columnists, we're not publishers, we're platforms and that's a huge difference. the legal protection that president trump is talking about protects them from exactly the problem that you stated, that they say they can't police all this content. the flip side of that is people compared this to a frarken stein's monster. they did also create this steam

that allows all kinds of disinformation to run through it so they get often tied up in pretzels trying to explain this away because of course in a sense they really are publishers as well. a lot of the information that gets out there, a lot of misinformation that the president puts out there is only possible because of their platforms. >> jim, can you just back up the tape a little bit. i mean, how is it -- and you have to wonder, any of us that cover this president, he's told 18,000 lies, and it was two lies that he told about mail-in voting that got the subtlest of -- i think a flag is -- it's too strong to call these red flags. it's a footnote. the warnings in his pvb about how deadly covid is were stronger and clearer about these little flags on his tweets. >> baby blue. >> yeah. it's really too little too late and why now? what pressure was twitter feeling to do something so

feeble so many lies in? >> the irony there is that in twitter's view this is a giant gesture. this is the start of something new. they were under immense pressure because, as you know, the president -- your colleagues there at the network were getting completely smeared and maligned. it goes to this idea of publisher versus platform. if "the new york times" wrote a story like that, we would be way open for libel, especially if we had shown the bad faith and the sort of animosity that the president has shown against joe score borough. . >> i guess to your point they didn't flag the tweets about joe scarborough and even though the widower of the woman who trump keeps falsely accusing joe scarborough of having something to do with her death pleaded with twitter to take them down saying that it is causing pain and suffering. twitter said sorry, pound sand. all twitter did, let's not

overstate and turn twitter into a good guy. all that guy did was stick a little note about two lies on mail-no voting. >> yeah, it's tiny. i would argue it's insufficient, but again my point is from twitter's standpoint, boy, this is a really big deal. i agree with you, it really isn't, and hopefully it's the start of something but look at how it enrages the president. the president's goal here is talk about something other than this 100,000 k death count, sadly. also, he's going to run his campaign on this platform. he runs everything on this platform so to him even that tiny thing that twitter did is a giant deal. >> jim, you are spot on with that. he's going to run his entire campaign on twitter. oh, what a thought. thank you for spending some time with us. great to see you, my friend. brian, what a thought that is for us. you and i are going to -- listen, i have had this 24-hour

fantasy that maybe trump will shut down twitter. he'll show them. i mean, that would really cement his legacy as doing something good for the world if he shut that down. i also have a question for you though. if donald trump makes it harder for twitter to publish content, isn't donald trump most susceptible to content that's full of lies? >> that's a great question, which is why you asked it, i'm sure. i have already started monitoring based on a theory that there would be a twitter adjacent platform that the president would kind of lead a charge to, though i can't imagine the president wanting to give up the megaphone and platform that he has played so brilliantly in a perverse way on twitter, but that platform is parlor, p-a-r-l-e-r, and it is

marketing itself as this is a safe space for all kinds of potentially unsafe thoughts, but this is the non-twitter, the off brand social media platform. so expect to hear much more of that in the conversation. good on jim ruttenberg by the way. people like you and me have been saying red flag. it's a baby blue notification at the bottom of the tweet. let's call it what it is. thank you for having me. i'll be watching. >> i'll be watching you at 11. thank you, my friend. up next, some promising news. we'll go inside the laboratory that just made a big breakthrough in the fight against that covid linked disease that's making kids sick. ♪ thousands of women with metastatic breast cancer, which is breast cancer that has spread to other parts of the body, are living in the moment and taking ibrance.

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a new discovery could help doctors immediately identify the mysterious deadly and likely covid linked syndrome affecting children worldwide. researchers in london found that pediatric multi-system inflammatory syndrome has blood and infection markers so unique that they could speed up the european union funded blood test and help prevent the illness from worsening. >> some distinctive markers this the blood which allow us to distinguish it from other conditions. >> they can make sure they get the right treatment, given

early, which can prevent the need for critical care and poorer outcomes. >> the syndrome is really scary but it is rare. it has killed at least three children in new york and affected hundreds of children worldwide. a range of startling symptoms, severe heart inflammation, hindered blood flow, rashes, spiking fever and con jung viets. joining our conversation, someone who always talks me off the ledge, president of benioff children's hospital and a board certified pediatric, dr. michael anderson. you're the one who talked me off the edge. i have to say it did not spare me from subsequent near panic attacks when i read some of the "new york times" reporting last friday just about how violent and how brutal the treatment of the syndrome is in kids. so give us the facts as we understand them and help us make sense of this new blood test. >> nicolle, it's great to be

with you and i agree with you, this is good news and i think families should realize the incredible pace with which we're addressing this new syndrome, multi-system inflammatory syndrome in children. it was a little over four weeks ago that we started to get reports from the uk and italy of kids coming in with high fever, a rash, and as you say getting very, very sick. four weeks later of course we have seen cases in the united states, a couple of hundred. there have been a couple unfortunate deaths, but think of how rapidly now researchers are figuring out as you say the blood markers. i was on a call with two british researchers that you just showed. there were 600 critical care doctors from across the world that were on the phone sharing data, talking about treatment, talking about their outcomes. so the world and our nation is really responding. a couple things, it is rare. if you think about the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of cases of adult covid we've seen in this country and we're only

talking about a couple of hundred, that's still serious, nothing to diminish, but it's still a very rare syndrome. number two, while the death of any child is tragic, the reassuring thing to me as a critical care doc and a parent and grandparent is the great majority of kids are responding and they respond quickly. these british colleagues are telling us after one or two days these kids were doing really well. >> so there's nothing that cuts to the heart of a parent or a grandparent or aunt or uncle like fear of their kid getting sick, and i think for a lot of people this just changed the psychological impact of protecting your family when, as you said, for the first seven weeks of the pandemic we thought kids were by and large free from getting the respiratory disease and from getting sick. can you just talk about what we should still be doing to keep kids safe. >> what a great question. first of all, the basics of what we call npi which is

nonpharmaceutical intervention is the basics, put a mask on, wash your hands frequently, don't be around people if you're sick, avoid -- all the things that dr. fauci and his wonderful colleagues have been talking about. that's not going away. when i see the media reports or the pictures of people gathering together, this disease has serious implications, and now unfortunately kids are included. so that's one. follow the advice of experts. number two is i do believe -- and we talked about this a little bit before -- this is an important time for parents to have a really tight either engagement or reengagement with their pediatrician, their primary care provider. a lot of times kids get fever and rashes and seasoned parents, as seasoned pediatricians go, eh. i think now that we've got these reports of kids getting very sick with this misc, i think it's important that families engage with their pediatrician. you can use a televisit. the use of telemedicine in covid

is really brought families closer to medical care so i think, number one, realize it's rare. number two, if your child does develop a fever, a rash, and there's a large percentage of these children from that amazing british report that have a lot of gastrointestinal symptoms. if you're starting to get worried, call your pediatrician and schedule a televisit. >> because one segment is never enough, we are going to continue our conversation with dr. anderson in just a minute. i want to ask you, disneyland and universal are opening up. is that a good idea? is a pool a good idea? what about visiting my parents and people's grandparents? so many questions, so little time. stay with us. we'll be right back. some companies still have hr stuck between employees and their data.

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benioff children's hospital in san francisco, a board certified pediatrician. by the end of this he'll be moonlighting as my therapy iist. >> i think you'll learn that i'm an optimist and we're starting to have discussions about normalcy so i think there's a little bit of, okay, let's have this discussion. now, we are emerging into a new world. going to the pool in the summer, having play dates, these things were just second nature just four months ago. i'll use the example of camp or play dates for a second. i think we are going to have to emerge to having kids be kids. they need to get outside and have exercise and socialize with

their friends. school is a longer term discussion but i think there's three major things you got to think about. one, what are the state public health officials saying is a go or no go. that's sort of the fork in the road if you will. second, are there any particular rules and regulations that societies have developed. i was talking recently about kids going to summer camp. the american camp association, the american academy of pediatrics, they're putting out strict guidelines of okay, camp is a cool thing for all the things i talked about but we've got to socially distance, wash our hands, make sure that kids of a certain age mask. so that's sort of the second element. and then third, i do think that some kids have very unique health needs so think about kids with chronic illnesses, kids with diabetes or asthma or cystic fibrosis. i think back to trust your pediatrician and the relationship with your pcp. i think you have to dialogue with the doc, is this safe and appropriate for my kid.

so i think we're going to start to have play bait dadates and c pool. i just think we've got to be so safe in how we do it and follow these guidelines. once again, the basics of nonpharmaceutical intervention, good hand washing, masks and social distancing. >> we will put a pin in this and to be continued i think later this summer. some theme parks are opening and we would all love your thaought on how to embark on something that's down the road and whether that's a good idea. your input, your advice, your words are so treasured by so many of our viewers. i get lots of notes about the things you say, so thank you so much for spending some time with us today. to be continued. "deadline: white house" begins next. don't go anywhere. does it worry me? absolutely. new sensodyne sensitivity & gum gives us the dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. there's no question

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hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. as the country grapples with the death toll that has now topped 100,000 from the coronavirus, the president largely missing from leading the nation in mourning. "the washington post" ashley parker writes this today, quote, as the nation reached a bleak milestone this week, 100,000 americans dead from the novel coronavirus, trump has been uncharacteristically quiet. his public schedule this week contains no special commemoration, no moment of silence, no collective sharing of grief. but grief was on full display in

the streets of minneapolis last night as sadness mixed with growing rage over the death of george floyd. floyd died this week when a police officer held his knee to his neck for more than seven minutes as floyd repeatedly said he couldn't breathe and passersby pleaded for his life. "the washington post" described the demonstrations in vivid detail, quote, thousands poured into the streets of minneapolis on wednesday for a second night of protests. demonstrations that began peacefully but turned chaotic as police fired rubber bullets from a rooftop. several buildings caught fire and authorities said one person was shot and killed by a store owner. a group of officers stood in front of a nearby precinct and tried to disrupt the crowd with flash bang grenades and rubber bullets. at times the tear gas was so thick it wafted down neighborhood streets where people standing in front of their yards were coughing and wiping their eyes. local leaders overnight acknowledging the anguish of the city but calling for protests and peace.

today in the streets of minneapolis, today of the fear giving way to prayer but just for a while. a vigil this afternoon remembering the life of george floyd, a gentle giant according to those who knew him best. his community crying out for justice. the marek cooing calls for more action at the police officer at the center of the shocking scene. >> i've wrestled with more than anything else over the last 36 hours one fundamental question. why is the man who killed george floyd not in jail? if you had done it or i had done it we would be behind bars right now. and i cannot come up with a good answer to that question. i'm calling on county attorney mike freeman to act on the evidence before him. i'm calling on him to charge the

arresting officer in this case. >> today the justice department and the fbi are pledging a robust criminal investigation into the death of george floyd, and the officers involved in his arrest who have already been fired. any minute we are expecting an update from the fbi related to this case. we'll bring that to you as soon as we get it. the outcry over george floyd's death is where we start today. msnbc legal analyst maya wiley is here. she worked in the southern district of new york's civil division, former assistant director for counterintelligence at the fbi, frank, and the reverend al sharpton will be joining us. frank, you were on with me and you described what you saw on the tape which at the time was all that we had. we now have one more piece of videotape, a heavily redacted piece of body cam video. do you stand by your observations earlier in the week that what we saw was homicide or

manslaughter, and has any of the new video evidence changed anything that you observed when you first saw the publicly available tapes? >> nicolle, unfortunately, the videos that have most recently been revealed only change my opinion more toward my homicide conclusion. what we're watching on these videos is a homicide in progress. the training that police officers receive will become a centerpiece of any prosecution against those officers. i'm here to tell you as someone who not only has been through law enforcement training but has supervised and investigated excessive force allegations against police officers that no police academy would ever train someone to put all of their weight on their knee onto a subject's neck regardless of the circumstances for any prolonged period of time. in fact, they are likely trained

in minneapolis to not do that because of the extreme risk of what could happen. we've got a homicide here. the only question now is why it's taking so long to see this officer and, quite frankly, the other officers brought into custody. >> we're now joined by the reverend al sharpton who's in minneapolis. he's host of ""politics nation"" here on msnbc. we showed some tape of you at the vigil and your comments were blunt. they were direct. tell us what your message is to the community and what you are hearing on the ground from local officials there, the mayor calling for an arrest, saying that if this was anybody else, if it was him, if it was any of us, we would be behind bars. >> well, we are saying that

these four policemen ought to be taken into custody now. there's no reason why they should not be arrested and charged. you only need probable cause to make an arrest. you don't need to try the case in order to make the arrest. you try the case after you make the arrest and the charges are made. what they tell people here in the streets is that if there's a crime, if there is no justifiable reason, then you're arrested and you tell your story to the judge. that's what they need to say to these four policemen. tell it to the judge. there's nothing on this tape that the original tape and the tapes that have subsequently been released that would in any way lean towards some self-defense from them or that they were in life extenuating circumstances. to add to that, that this officer had his full body weight on this man's neck when people were passing by saying stop, wait a minute, you see what's happening. i stood at the corner where it

happened. people are outraged because they know if it had been them, you or me, nicolle, we would have been arrested by now. >> what is the mood on the street? are you expecting the protests to turn into something like what you led today, a vigil, or is the anger too intense there against the police department, the police officers? >> there's a lot of anger. i don't know what to expect tonight. we've been talking to the family. i brought the mother of eric gardener with me who was killed in a chokehold in 2014 to show this continues to happen. maybe if we had seen prosecutions in the gardener case these policemen would have known you can't get away with this. there is a determination to make sure that this doesn't keep happening. there's been other cases here in minneapolis which is why there is such anger. i don't think anyone can predict

what would happen. certainly the family has said that they don't condone violence but they don't condone the v violence that was done against floyd. i think we've got to keep in mind as we look at the anger that the violence was started when a law enforcement official put his knee on the neck of this man and would not release it even when he kept saying i can't breathe, i can't breathe, i can't breathe. >> rev, where are we without that piece of tape? eddie glaude said something in the last hour that will haunt me for a long time. he said the tape basically is our bind because you need the tape -- i think these are eddie's words. eddie said you need the tape to show white people what police officers do to black men in america. basically watching the tape is retraumatizing many people over and over again. >> it is traumatizing but don't forget, we had a tape with eric gardener and they didn't prosecute.

what we need is justice. we need for the justice system to operate fairly for everyone and i don't think there's something unreasonable. i think though that is where the anger comes from. people say how many tapes are we going to see before you say wait a minute, we are not going to marginalize the lives of people. there's no reason this man is dead and there's no reason these officers are not in jail. >> rev, there were protests on the streets of los angeles and i believe in chicago as well. i think that leaders in washington forget that americans can hold more than one thought, more than one bucket of pain in their hearts at once, but it is true that the pandemic has disproportionately hurt communities of color. obviously this is an instance of police officers targeting, killing an african-american man on the street. just talk about all that is being put onto the

african-american community right now today. >> when you look at it today, nicolle, not only are we the ones that are bearing the overwhelming brunt of the pandemic, we are disproportionately the ones dying, disproportionately the ones found positive with the coronavirus, we are disproportionately the ones not getting the stimulus money with our small businesses. on top of that, in 30 days we've seen the killing in brunswick of ahmaud arbery. we've seen this young lady, brianna taylor, in louisville killed in her house when the officers went to the wrong house to try to get a man that was already in custody and when her boyfriend shot a legal weapon they came back with 20 rounds of fire that eight bullets killed her. now we see this all in 30 days during the pandemic. many people are saying how much can we take. i think that it's time for the

country to pause and really deal with the racial imbalance in the criminal justice system. >> rev, who leads that conversation? obviously we have a president who is out of the closet with views that many view as blatantly, flagrantly racist, so who leads us to the table where we even have that conversation? >> well, it should be led with those that are sworn to protect us, that there will be equal protection under the law. it should be led by the president of the united states and the congress and the senate. it seems to me that if we can see this kind of outrage even if a pandemic, that we should at least see in the halls of power a recognition that it's time to move. the president belatedly made a statement but he's not made any statements in the three and a half years he's been in, let alone the years he's been a public figure. he should know people are going to look at his words and say are

they 'empty words. i think this could be a tipping point to have this conversation, but you cannot have a conversation until these officers are arrested and show that we're dealing on a playing field that is even and that is fair to everyone. without that, it's talk with no action. we don't just need a conversation, we need the implementation and execution of the law. >> rev, if you're able to, please stay with us. we're waiting for this fbi press conference to start but i want to add to our conversation maya wiley who's been listening in to all this. maya, to the question that i put to the rev, where does this conversation take place? i don't want to ask that in a, oh, where do we sign up to help. i want to ask you where we say the ugly truths. the ugly truth is that we don't have a president who has much trust in the african-american

community. we have a candidate in joe biden who has a lot of support among african-americans in every state that's voted in the primary, overwhelming support. we are in this weird gap where there's a real leadership vacuum at the federal level. >> you're absolutely right, nicolle. frankly, i think the conversation starts right here. the conversation that we're having right now. i think the rev is absolutely right about the importance of law enforcement to demonstrate that it is here to protect the public safety of people in this country who are black and to stand up for that by showing up and by prosecuting these officers. i also think that we have to show up because one of the things i'm struck by is the, for example, the description of george floyd as a gentle giant. what if george floyd had a

felony record, would it be okay for these officers to kill him by strangulation when he was not yet charged with a crime, and in fact it wasn't even clear whether he had committed one. part of the problem that we have here is it is hard to be a police officer, but it's really hard to be black in america. there's this notion that there's no redemption for us, that the stereotypes that we live down because we see the parade of black faces connected with criminal activity and what unfortunately that reinforces the stereotype that, well, if more black people are being killed by police it's because more black people are criminals. i don't know a george floyd and i can tell you right now if he tried to pass a bad $20 bill, he should still be alive and they should still be guilty -- they

should still be investigated and charged with a homicide. part of the real conversation we have to have is what our stereotypes are and what we have to do right here on the media to start to dismantle them. it's not enough to say that george floyd didn't deserve to die, it's that no black person deserves to die and that is something that law enforcement has to show up for and that we all have to show up for. >> i don't want to lose this thread at all, frank. please pick it up. what on earth justifies a nonviolent interaction with police and anyone, an african-american man, a white woman, anyone over a forged check? what on earth are the things that transpire for the suspect, in this case george floyd, to end up handcuffed pinned down on

the pavement with a knee to his neck until he dies? >> there's a cultural problem across the law enforcement community, and as someone who spent his fbi career moving around the country and having the privilege to work in many diverse communities, i often came to the conclusion that you get what you pay for with regard to your police department. by that i mean good training, solid community relationships, all of that takes constant reinforcement, and that also takes money and it also takes a pay scale that attracts the right people and recruits and assesses the right people. what this comes down to, nicolle, is leadership, leadership at the chief or superintendent level, at the mayor and at the state level. what i see happening throughout the minneapolis area over the years points to broken leadership. if we're going to talk about leadership in this context, we've got to talk about the president of the united states who, during his tenure,

addressed a law enforcement crowd and said essentially it's okay to not be nice to your subject. you need to rough them up more. i've got your back. that's what this president has said. the irony is not lost on me that he just tweeted that he sent the fbi and doj into minneapolis which by the way he did not. they had opened cases immediately. so the irony of a president saying it's okay for cops to rough people up and not be so nice, and hey, i'm on this, i'm going to investigate it, should not be lost on anybody. >> and it's an important point, frank, because we should be able to in america in 2020 trust what we see with our eyes and hear with our ears. you're right, we saw the president say those things. we heard the president say those things and it should absolutely be part of the story as we try to unpack it and understand how these cultures become so broken

that with our own eyes we watch someone extinguish a life in front of other people. i guess, frank, it keeps bringing me back to a question i've been asking all week. what must the culture be like that that is the conduct in broad daylight with a crowd around them? >> it's about a code that lacks consequences and culpability. there's no accountability if the culture leads to that. one of the ways to start enforcing that kind of accountability is to ensure that our police departments look much more like the communities that they're policing in terms of diversity. and then there's training and selection of leadership, but also it is essential that in this case the other officers who either enabled that or allowed this to happen by their presence and did not act have to be charged as accomplices in order to shift the culture and make everyone accountable for the

actions of the cop next to them. >> rev, i'm coming back to you. we are awaiting this fbi briefing. frank has talked about donald trump saying that he dispatched the fbi and the justice department, as frank said, that's likely not the case. the fbi had opened cases there on their own. what do you expect to happen next? what are your expectations? i know they're always realistic. they're never too high, but they're never without hope. what are your expectations for what the fbi has to say today? >> i would hope that they would say that they are going to come in and arrest these four for the murder of this unarmed, nonviolent man, george floyd, and they are going to proceed from there. i would hope the state authorities or the county

authorities would have already done that. we cannot begin healing without first dealing with the open wounds and what it is that we have to heal, and that is a broken criminal justice system and the people are bleeding here in minneapolis and in many places around this country. i would hope that we start restoring law and order. they say that they're the law and order people. well, why don't you enforce the law and then you can establish the order. >> the rev al sharpton, maya wiley, frank figluzi, three of the most thoughtful and informed human beings on all topics but especially today, thank you for starting us off. we're going to be keeping our eyes and ears on minneapolis and what the fbi has to say about that investigation. we'll bring it to you when it happens. when we come back, that leadership vacuum we've been discussing. why isn't donald trump capable of leading the country and paying tribute to the 100,000 lives lost in the pandemic, and

how might that catch up with him next fall. also ahead, the president and his twitter threads. we dare you, mr. president, quit twitter right now. the world would be a better place. we'll see what he has in store for his revenge against the social media platform for their audacity to fact check his lies. and just how badly behaved is donald trump these days? well, he's so bad that even a few gop standard bearers are attacking him. we'll show it to you college up. you should be mad at tech that's unnecessarily complicated. make ice. making ice. but you're not because you have e*trade which isn't complicated. their tools make trading quicker and simpler so you can take on the markets with confidence. don't get mad get e*trade. so you can take on the markets with confidence. with moderate to severe treplaque psoriasists uncover clearer skin that can last. in fact, tremfya® was proven superior to humira® in providing significantly clearer skin. tremfya® may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to.

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my fellow americans, there are moments in our history so grim, so heart rendering that they're forever fixed in each of our hearts with shared grief. today is one of those moments, 100,000 lives have now been lost

to this virus here in the united states alone. each one leaving behind a family that will never again be whole. i think i know what you're feeling. you feel like you're being sucked into a black hole in the middle of your chest. it's suffocating. your heart is broken. there's nothing but a feeling of emptiness right now. i can promise you from experience the day will come when the memory of your loved one will bring a smile to your lips before it brings a tear to your eyes. >> heartfelt and consoling words, the truth about grief, things a nation needs to hear right now. joe biden's ability to empathize with the family and friends of the 100,000 victims of coronavirus draws attention to just how greatly our president lacks in that regard. trump in fact considered the 100,000 mark a victory, claiming that more lives would have been lost if not for him. ashley parker of the "washington

post" writes, trump has handled the data around this pandemic as he has for other situations, to manipulate or disregard. she writes this, quote, throughout the crisis trump has alternately touted or ignored the numbers, boasting about figures he views as politically beneficial while casting doubt on projections and statistics that undermine his message that the country is in the midst of a transition in progress. joining our conversation, ron klain, former white house ebola response coordinator, now adviser to joe biden, plus white house reporter for "the washington post," the aforementioned, twice quoted ashley parker. ashley, take me through this story because i started the hour with it. i think you're right, he's uncharacteristically quiet about this milestone for the country, 100,000 families never to be the same because they've lost a loved one. in lots of cases -- i know this from doing obituaries every day, it's a grandma and a grandpa,

mom and a dad because of the way the virus spreads and really not much from this president. >> the human toll is just devastating. we started this piece from the frame of this is a president who is enthralled to the numbers. it started with his wealth, then his ratings, then his poll numbers. but with this virus he has very much chosen a pick and choose approach. as you just quoted the numbers that work for him, he'll mention the stock market when it's going up. he'll mention the number of cases early on when he wanted to try to dismiss the virus, saying there's 15 cases now, it's going down to zero. of course that's not the case. but we are struck especially, the 100,000 death mark is such a grim milestone and the president really had no plan to grapple with it. there was no moment of silence, no moment of shared grief. it was the exact opposite of what you just showed from vice president biden. he did have the flags fly at

half staff over memorial day but in talking to people inside the white house, they really had nothing planned and a lot of people who know the president and his critics as well say this is about the president's inability to be empathetic. all presidents are supposed to play the role of consoler in chief, marijuaourner in chief. vice president biden is particularly well positioned having lost two of his children and his first wife. empathy is something he does incredibly well and incredibly authentically. it's not somewhere where president trump is comfortable or really even able to go. it was so striking as we approach this very grim milestone. >> ron klain, the campaign obviously looms large but this feels like it's about a bigger kind of choice. being able to talk about grief is being able to talk about when you are on your knees and his

description of the black hole that feels like it's going to suck you in. i know who has lost someone they love knows that that's it and there's nothing mugs collscular it or anything you can spin away. but the way to rise again as george bush has said is through that grief. is joe biden feeling like there's a bigger opportunity to do some of that, leading the nation, whether these people are going to vote for him or not but through our grief, through our moment and maybe sort of finding his footing as our comforter in chief while donald trump sort of abdicates that part of his job? >> well, i think the difference between these two men, these two candidates for president, just couldn't be starker. it's the difference in both doing the job and decency. reporting today that president trump still doesn't have a testing strategy to help us get out of this covid mess. 40 million americans lost their

jobs. that's all because of his botched response and i think vice president biden has a plan to do the job and to get this disease under control and fix the economy. the second part of that as you said is decency. it's just how these two men interact with the american people, with loss, tragedy, character, and over the past 72 hours as this nation's approached and passed this milestone, the president is at war with twitter about fact checks. he hasn't addressed our pain, taken responsibility, offered an apology to these families who lost a loved one, many is you say grandparents and grandmother, fathers, mothers, sisters and brothers, a lot of younger people too. i think vice president biden's ability to speak to that i hope heals the nation even in the middle of a campaign. that would be one of the big assets he would bring to the white house. >> ashley parker, the polling bears some of this out. quinn ipiac

quinnipiac, who cares about average americans, joe biden 61%, donald trump 42%. why this matters, john heilemann reminded me of some recent presidential history. i think you were on the -- you covered romney's effort, and romney on the question of who's a stronger leader, who would better handle the economy, who would be better on foreign affairs, according to john heilemann's testing, actually bested incumbent president obama but it was on this question of whether or not you cared about people that obama was so superior to romney and obviously we all know how the 2012 election turned out. it's a very powerful test whether or not a candidate cares about people like you, especially with millions and millions of people jobless, dealing with food insecurity, dealing with homelessness, dealing with a lack of health insurance and for 100,000 american families dealing with the loss of a loved one. >> you're right. it is an incredibly powerful

test. the trump campaign people, people in trump world take comfort that in some of those polling questions the economy, the president still does better. one thing from my story i want to flag is who cares about you and who is more empathetic is perhaps even more outsized indicator in a moment like a crisis and not just a crisis but a deadly contagion because a point that someone made to me was that this role of consoler in chief is more important as average americans are not able to perform small rituals of grief that we normally do to help us get through tough times. a lot of people because of the virus can't hold a funeral. they can't sit shiva. they're not going to church or wherever they worship. they're not able to be there in the hospital holding their loved one's hand as they die. and so especially now, now more than ever, is when you look to the leader of the nation to perform those collective rituals

that you yourself would do but you can't because of social distancing. so i think it may be striking people even a bit starker and harder in this moment of such uncertainty. >> ron, you mentioned the testing plan that former vice president biden has out. let me read this to you, how it was described in "the new york times." the presumptive democratic nominee's plan laid out in a little noticed medium post stands in stark contrast to president trump's leave it to the states strategy. why was it little noticed? is the vice president exasper e exasperated by the size of the news or is there -- tell me why you think it was a little noticed introduction of his testing plan. again, that's "the new york times" description. >> we put out this plan several weeks ago. i think you should ask "the new york times" why it is writing that the plan was little noticed as opposed to noticing the plan. that certainly would have been our preference.

but look, i think the point is this, the difference on testing like the difference on contact tracing, like the difference on the plans to re-open the country, like the difference on every issue are differences that americans will come back to time and again. the saddest thing about losing 100,000 lives from this disease is that we're nowhere near being done. this disease continues on today. 1,000 or more americans will die today and the next day and the next day. so i think there will be ample opportunities for voters to weigh the difference between vice president biden approach and president trump's chaotic, unfocused, unplanned approach to dealing with this, to physicifie economy, re-opening safely. this debates just getting started and i have a lot of confidence that people will attach significant importance to the differences between how these two men would handle this problem.

>> ron klain and ashley parker, thank you both for spending time with us. ashley parker, thank you for a single piece of reporting that has animated the first 30 minutes of our show today. it's a great story. after the break, donald trump somehow finding the time for a crusade against social media companies just because twitter rather meekly and gently fact checked a couple of his tweets. the executive order that he says he's signing, how it just might backfire. that's next. introducing new voltaren arthritis pain gel, the first and only full prescription strength non-steroidal anti-inflammatory gel available over-the-counter. new voltaren is powerful arthritis pain relief in a gel. voltaren. the joy of movement.

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donald trump has moved at remarkable speed, imagine if he did that with the pandemic, in his attempt to exact revenge on twitter for daring to fact check a pair of his tweets. just this hour he brought reporters into the oval office with attorney general bill barr right next to him. trump said he's about to sign an executive order with new regulations for social media companies seemingly designed to

curtail some of their legal protections. he didn't sign it on camera but white house officials say the document is now signed. it's destined to be challenged in court, something trump didn't dispute with reporters. joining us now "new york times" political reporter nick confessore and rick stengel. nick, before we talk about how donald trump is going to punish twitter for doing the meekest, subtlest fact check into his lies, imagine if he had acted that quickly in the pandemic. it's amazing what gets his attention. >> it's kind of fascinating. i would add there are people in the conservative movement who have been pushing this idea of twitter censorship and facebook censorship urging and pressuring the administration to do something to put out a bill to make some rule makings for over a year now, and what finally tipped the balance for the president was a mild fact check

of one tweet. i want to point out, his tweet wasn't censored. it wasn't even downgraded as far as we can tell. they just added a little note to it saying, hey, there's actually some more information to this conspiracy theory the president is spreading and you can click on this if you want to know more. that's all they did. >> rick, i get harder sells from amazon every day than anyone will get on donald trump's flagrant lies about something that's at the core of our democracy, voting. we should also note, twitter did not respond to the grieving widower of the woman at the heart of donald trump's latest conspiracy theory that he's pedaling on twitter. i think what twitter did is lame, and i think trump's response is a big flashing yellow light that's supposed to, i don't know, show his base that he's not going to take a fact check. i've lost the thread on this, rick stengel. >> part of it is, you bring up a

very good example. people, liberals, people on the left like myself who have written about the rise of disinformation and what it's doing to our society do want an amendation of the communications decency act because we want the platforms to take down disinformation, to take down lies, to take down calamities like donald trump issues every day. so it's kind of a false canard that conservatives and people on the right think that the social media companies are censoring their content. that's absurd. the social media companies give oxygen to their content. the fact that people like me would like an amendation of section 230 is to take down this malicious content, take down content that violates their terms of service. if you look at their community standards, they don't allow hate speech. they don't allow bullying. they're supposed to take all of that stuff down. we need a mechanism to enforce that.

>> nick, i think trump should be careful what he wishes for because i don't totally understand why social media platforms have just a -- it's like opening the spig et for russian disinformation. you've reported more extensively on this than just about anyone. could trump's moves, one, backfire on trump, and two, be just the tip of the iceberg of what a responsible regulation of social media could entail? >> if you got rid of section 230 right now, for example, it's possible to imagine that somebody could sue president trump for his calamities on twitter for lies he tells on twitter about joe scarborough or someone whose wife died so he should be careful. section 230 does not have to do with this thing about being platform or a publisher. it already encourages platforms

to moderate content. that's why it was passed. what's happening with the president's order here as far as we've seen details, he's trying to use powers he doesn't actually have to solve a problem that doesn't exist. it's ridiculous. >> rick, that's like the next great book about this president, he's trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist with powers he doesn't have. that's the most brilliant thing i've heard in a long time. talk about how by dabbling in this space donald trump can make it easier perhaps for someone who has lied about on twitter by trump to have some legal tools. >> nick is exactly right. to take it a step further back, you could never print in "the new york times" or "time" magazine anything like what twi twitter or facebook allows on their platforms. everything that a mainstream publisher publishes is fact checked and tested and lawyers

look at it. so the stuff that trump says goes into the ether. i would argue that section 230 gives them this immunization against being sued for libel or defamation. joe scarborough could sue donald trump for assaulting his character with actual lies. i don't see why that shouldn't be allowed. i do think what they're doing about section 230 will come back to hount them, nicolle, like you said because he is the greatest violator of the standards on all of these platforms. he will be punished for it. >> nick and rick, two of the people who i love having on but they're both so smart i'm over here googling section 230 as you both talk. thank you both for spending some time with us. it's a conversation to be continued. after the break, it's not exactly the outcry some americans might have hoped for but it's something. voices of dissent among republicans aimed at the president. that's next.

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donald trump's egregious lies about our colleague joe scarborough, the pushing of a conspiracy theory about one of his interns is compelling even some of those in his own party who never, never, never open their mouth even a teeny bit to speak out against him. mitt romney called them vile and baseless, saying enough already. the number three republican in the house, liz cheney, told

reporters trump should stop tweeting about joe scarborough and pointed out we're in the middle of a pandemic. the criticism didn't just come from conservatives on capitol hill. a searing editorial by "the wall street journal," in "the new york post" as well. joining me now editor at large for the bull work and an msnbc contributor, charlie sike. liz cheney, "the wall street journal" editorial page which carries a lot of water for trump's war on justice, the "new york post" which carries a lot of water for trump, full stop, coming out against this brand of crazy struck me because it answers this question, how off the rails is he? he's so off the rails, "the wall street journal" editorial page liz cheney and the wall street post are attacking him. >> yes, but this is low hanging fruit. the conservative media has become a permission structure

for letting donald trump indulge his worst impulses without any consequences. i feel like we're in a laboratory experiment of how far can we go, how low are they willing to go. you low can they go. you listed the voices that spoke out against them, but notice how short that list is. with the exception of mitt romney, i think everybody else eventually is going to get around to saying, yes, but we will support donald trump to be president for the next 4 years. this is the anti anti-trump position. yes, there are voices that are out there because what the president is doing is so fundamentally indefensible. it is not just the law, it is the cruelty. it is the erratic cruelty. when you think about it, you were listening to rush limbaugh yesterday and all of the leading talk radio conservative in the country. he's making the point the lies don't matter. morallism is a joke. and president trump's cruelty is

subtle cleverness and so much fun because he was pouring fire on this controversy and he's triggering the media and unfortunately this is the culture that we're in. how it reflects trump's morality and it has ways to rationalize it. it's great that these voices came out. when you go through, how many elected officials have said anything about this. where are the republicans from joe scarborough's -- are there any of them? >> you're absolutely right. i mean, i think the other thing, where were they all on mask wearing? why can't rush limbaugh say what sean hannity said which is wearing a mask is smart? conservatives were supposed to be, you know, protectors, right? protectors of our national security. protectors of national capitalism. why can't they protect families, senior homes and their village? when did the party become so devoid of character and service?

>> well, several years ago, we've been talking about this, we've been asking what is the breaking point, will there ever be a breaking point. that's when i know, nicole, there is no breaking point. we're seeing that in real time. sort of like the learned helplessness. you can speak out and say t. i don't think there will be a huge political presence. mr. president, this is not necessary. keep in mind this is taking place as the country is going through these dual crises, maybe even three crises with race relations, there are riots, there are police killings of black people. 100,000 americans have died from the coronavirus. we are at great depression levels of unemployment and what is the president spending his time doing? so what would the price be for republicans saying, mr. president, focus on your job? but they won't even do that. >> charlie sykes, it's always great to see you. you're my friend. my therapy. after the break, celebrating lives.

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did i do enough? you know, that's what i was telling him. i hope y'all don't feel like i failed you, not being able to protect you, you know? but i know that god makes his decisions. i just want to get out of detroit. i just want to get out of here. you know, i can't take him with me. damn. >> that was thomas field sr. after the funeral for thomas field jr., his only son. thomas jr. was 32 years old working at a school in detroit when he died of coronavirus. he spent time in the navy, too, as a cook. a discipline he carried into civilian life. kind, radiant, funny. thomas was actually engaged to

be married. he and his fiance, jasmine just bought a house together. she said thomas loved to help people, educate people, he wanted to change the world. we'll remember thomas for the last thing he ever said to his fiance a text message reading simply, i love you. we see you. we remember you. that does it for our hour. thank you for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary days. our coverage continues with chuck todd right after a quick break. your allergy pills? flonase sensimist. nothing stronger. nothing gentler. nothing lasts longer. flonase sensimist. 24 hour non-drowsy allergy relief laso you can enjoy it even ifst you're sensitive. se. yet some say it isn't real milk. i guess those cows must actually be big dogs. sit! i said sit!

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welcome to thursday. it is "meet the press" daily. i'm chuck todd. we're continuing msnbc's breaking news coverage. we are standing by for fbi officials to make some sort of announcement outside of