apartments, very, very worried that this explosion of violence was going to come their way. >> peaceful protests is something that naacp is something we always advocated for as a tool when the system denied our community justice. we never advocate for violent protests and riots. but what you get is when the justice system is broken and there's no hope and the naacp in december of last year, we did an economic study of the city -- of the twin cities, both minneapolis and st. paul, we gave the warning in that report if something is not done with the lack of opportunities for african-americans that city, those cities are like a powder keg and it's going to explode.

what have witnessed over the last couple of nights is the pent-up frustration. >> and finally, what was it like to read the president saying when the looting starts the shooting starts. >> unfortunately, what we're seeing in the society, whether it's a public health pandemic, individuals feel they have a license to harm african-americans or harm individuals in the jewish community it's the result of the 2016 elections and this president using social media platforms to spew hate and division. i am glad to see that finally jack dorsey and twitter beginning to take a more aggressive approach on their platform and i encourage all of the social media platforms to

begin to censor the way you and i would be if we used a platform to spew hate speech and misdirection. >> derek johnson, president, ceo of the naacp, thank you, sir, for finding time to talk with us today. another break in our coverage. when we come back -- the former commissioner of the new york city police department, bill bratton will be our guest live as we continue to cover the breaking news. third-degree murder and manslaughter charges facing the arresting officer seen pinning his knee to the neck of the late george floyd in minneapolis. yd i i got an oriole here.

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the officer who pressed his knee into george floyd's neck for at least seven minutes on video, we know now will face third-degree murder charges. the hennepin county attorney in minnesota made that announcement today. the investigation into the three other officers involved is ongoing. this comes as officials work to diffuse tensions between police and demonstrators, to avoid a fourth night of civil unrest. we're happy to be joined now by bill bratton who served two terms as commissioner of the nypd, also led police departments in boston and los angeles, he's these days our

senior law enforcement analyst. commissioner, can you imagine a case in any of the departments you ran where we would see a night like last night and let's be honest about what it was the governor and major were spectators and police and fire were not allowed to engaged and they abandoned and offered up a police precinct. >> well, brian, it brings me back to the 1990s when in los angeles the los angeles police department in the midst of that riot, abandoned florence and that was the tipping point. first time in history of l.a. police department, where they gave up a street. giving up that intersection on live news, that sent the signal that anything goes and for the next as we saw 48 hours, 72 hours the city of los angeles

burned. so last night, the lack of collaboration, cooperation, it's just hard to fathom on how there could have been so little communication on what to do in terms of assertive action, passive action and then setting the stage when these fires were set, the fire department could not get to the scene safely. so the afteraction report on this one is going to be a phenomenal read when it's finally done. >> let's talk about the hold that took the life of george floyd, the knee to the neck, it's certainly not unique to this instance, i've seen it used before, and i guess the question is, is it taught or passed down? because it's employed. >> it's not taught anywhere that

i'm aware of, that we learned in the eric garner incidence, the use of the chokehold has the knee may be used in the midst of a struggle briefly. it's not author sized in any training that i'm aware of anywhere in the united states of america. certainly not with the disregard of life that this officer certainly displayed in front of that camera for seven minutes. depraved indifference of that officer. effectively, the third-degree murder charge specifically mentions depraved. and that's what we saw. one of the main tenets of law,

you have to look at the dignity of human life. >> what effect this will have on police officers across the country doing their jobs, working a 4:00 to 12:00 friday night into saturday, the good police officers that are part of the minneapolis police department, the good police officers who are part of the st. paul police department, the men and women who every day try their darndest not to be this guy. >> two thoughts, brian. i'm very friendly with the chief of police, i was out there for the super bowl for five days with those two departments, excellent officers, many of them excellent leadership after a long history of poor leadership, poor performance and racial

tension. you're correct, every police officer in america tonight working is going into unknown risk as a result of what's going on in that city the tensions that are always there have been heightened dramatically. at the same time, they'll go forward and the vast, vast majority will perform their duties appropriately and within the law. i'll point out that the issue of race is the unhealed wound in this country. first original sin if you will. every one of these incidences pulls back the scab that's never allowed to heal. we always learn from these. we learned from the death of eric garner. we improve. we improved our training, our awareness, but we still quite

obviously have a long way to go. >> former new york city police commissioner bill bratton, commissioner, thank you very much for finding time to talk with us. another break in our coverage. when we come back -- the governor of the state of new york, andrew cuomo. cuomo introducing new voltaren arthritis pain gel, the first and only full prescription strength non-steroidal anti-inflammatory gel available over-the-counter. new voltaren is powerful arthritis pain relief in a gel. voltaren. the joy of movement. and sometimes, you can find yourself heading in a new direction. but when you're with fidelity, a partner who makes sure every step is clear, there's nothing to stop you from moving forward.

welcome back for the last portion of this hour, as our live coverage continues, the governor of state of new york andrew cuomo has been kind

enough to join us to talk about that state's reopening, which we'll do but governor by way of thanking you for being with us, i have to start about what we have witnessed over the past 12 hours to 24 hours, not a word from the president today, no presence last night on the part of the governor of minnesota, the mayor of minneapolis and as a cascading effect, no police or fire presence, can you imagine in new york in the city of new york and the state of new york choosing to surrender for starters a police precinct? >> brian, good to be with you. look, this is a terrible situation. our thoughts and prayers are with george floyd's family. all new yorkers join me in that as i'm sure all americans do. i understand the frustration from the prost testers all across the country. this is not a new story, we tend

to cover incidents this is a continuing narrative, another chapter in the book called injustice and inequality in america and i's been going on for 30 years, right, rodney king, los angeles was 30 years ago. it's just replayed over and over and over again. we just saw the ahmaud arbery case. it's been 30 years. continuing inequality. you have coronavirus on top of that. that's killing more african-americans than anyone else by percentage. so you can see the constant frustration with the injustice especially in the justice system, and it's just gone on and on and on and people are frustrated. . you shouldn't break the law, no illegality. but frustration certainly.

>> let me ask you, the lawyer in you, the charging document just and i can't believe we're being so molecular about timing here, here's what it says, the police officer's knee was on his neck for additional two minutes and 43 seconds after mr. floyd became unresponsive. police officer's knee was on mr. floyd's neck for a total of 8 minutes and 46 seconds. governor, what do you have to believe about the police officer to go for a murder one charge as opposed to murder three, the family is asking that the charge be upgraded from murder three to murder one. >> yeah, the question is going to be intent and deliberateness of the actions and i was a former prosecutor and i don't

like to pre-judge any prosecutor's actions. the prosecutor in this case said they could charge up depending on what they find. it's not uncommon to see the charges escalated. but let's see what the prosecutor does, the evidence to me is damning. in this state, i think it would support a murder charge based on what we know. now the prosecutor alluded to that there's evidence that you don't know about. let's see if charge up in this case. it's going to be a clear question of fact. >> i'll let you tell the viewers

what you've decided about new york, which was of course as you've been dealing with, 24/7 nonstop the u.s. epicenter of coronavirus, what does reopening look like in new york? >> well, brian, you're right. new york city was the epicenter and new york state has had more case cases than any other state in this country. remember what happened to new york, we were told about the china virus, the china virus, this virus came from europe, we were all looking west and the virus came from the east, nobody talked about the virus coming from europe, we had 3 million flights of people coming from europe january, february and march and that's where the virus came from and it spread once it hit new york. we did have the worst case and in some ways, brian, that forced the smartest and most aggressive

response, all the numbers are down. they're way down. other parts of the country you still see the curve going up. june 8th we're going to open phase one, and phase one will bring about 400,000 people back to work. it's a gradual turning on the economy. we've done it in other parts of the state. but the gradual nature of it allows us to calibrate the actions and new york city's a complex orgasm. starting the eighth. that's exciting. and from where we were, it's about 90 days a lifetime in some ways and in some way it's not considering what we had to do. >> how do you go about advising citizens, especially a lot of essential workers have police,

fire, con ed and so on and so on. subway versus bus. if they can get in a cab or a lyft service, how are you going to advise the people who make new york city go and thus must get to work and by the way, finding a way to get to work this whole time? >> yes, it's a good question, brian. they had been getting to work and taking public transportation. i'll tell you an interesting fact, the essential workers quote/unquote, police, nurses, doctors, all the frontline worker who would you suspect have the infection rate have the lower infection rate than the general population. it makes the point that ppe works, those masks work. they should have told us earlier about the masks and how

effective they were. individual responsibility. the ppe. what situations you put yourself in. that all is going to determine the future. you know, forget government. this is beyond government. this is what the people do. their actions will determine what happens with that viral spread. but it's individual responsibility. if they want to drive and uber, lyft, et cetera, it's up to them. the essential workers have been taking public transportation. with disinfecting our public transportation system, disinning fekting subways, we have uv light. that has been operating all along. it has never stopped. it's an individual decision. i understand the anxiety. it's clean and it's safe. you have to be smart and you

have to keep distance where you can. but people have been using it every day all through this. >> finally governor, i heard your -- your viewers' kind to consumers yesterday, you told people at the briefly, lot of talk about companies getting lean after the coronavirus, that means firing people, that means layoffs and for a guy in your position you also have the tax base of all those towering structures in manhattan that you don't want slowly empty up, how do you police against something like that? >> brian, i think you're exactly right. i'll tell you what my crystal ball says, it says remember history and remember the past because it's going to repeat itself. remember what happened after the mortgage fraud financial crisis, we had all those bailouts for all the big banks, they had

party and the taxpayers got the bill. you'll see corporations laying off workers, saying they're restructuring, they're getting lean, they learned lessons from the pandemic, they're going to take billions of dollars from the government and then they're going to lay off workers, that's what's going to happen. what i said to washington, they should stop that now in its tracks. if you take a dollar of government money you should not be allowed to lay off workers, you have to hire back the same number of workers pre-pandemic postpost-pandemic if you take a government bailout. i believe that's what's going to happen. i don't believe this economy just comes back, rebounds straight up. this isn't a basketball. this is a football. and it's going to come back up at a weird angle and the big corporations will be fine and

the workers will get stifd. it's always the story. >> governor of the state of new york, andrew cuomo. governor thanks for being generous with your time. we appreciate it. >> thank you. thank you, brian. and in the governor's state, one of the places we'll be watching as afternoon gives way to evening and friday gives way to saturday, we've had sporadic arrests in new york city last night, in manhattan, couple of dozen people were gathered up in new york. we have had some peaceful gatherings thus far as we have had in cities across the country. you're looking at members of the minneapolis state police force. our coverage continues with john heilemann at the very top of the hour after this. er this.u get ts of items you need to your door fast the way it works best for you.

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it's 4 dmrk the east. following the breaking news around the death of george floyd. officer derek chauvin, the minneapolis police officer seen in the video on your screen, kneeling on the neck of george floyd, has been arrested on charges of murder and manslaughter. he's facing up to 25 years in prison if convicted. last night, violence, minneapolis and around the country as the rage boiled over into chaos on the third straight night of protests, scenes of

looting and rioting. . the police precinct stormed by protesters and set ablaze forcing the evacuation of minneapolis officers. in neighboring st. paul, reports of a dozen of fires overnight. the demonstrations spreading across the country overnight, many peaceful, but others engulfed in that violent anger from denver to columbus, ohio, to louisville, kentucky, where a protest over the fatal police shooting over breonna taylor. today, minnesota governor tim walz addressed the grief on display in his state and across the country. >> minnesotians, your pain is real. the chapter that's been written this week is one of our darkest chapters. and we can choose a few things.

we can choose to try and get past it, put a force out there and stop things from happening. i don't naively think that everything heals and you come to the forefront and you say it will be better. this is community that demands and expects more than words. >> as demonstrations persist from coast to coast, despite pleas for peace from local leaders, president trump in the rose garden, in an appearance about china, that felt oddly removed from where the american people are, ignoring a chance to calm tensions, ease fears, he said nothing. instead just before he made this statement that you're looking at now, trying to tweet his way out of a controversy caused by another earlier morning tweet where he called protesters in minneapolis "thugs." offering to send in the military and quote take control and

adding, when the looting starts, the shooting starts. a racist phrase from miami's unrest in 1967. a statement that twitter later flagged saying it glorified violence. let's bring in msnbc ali velshi who's in minneapolis. you were in the middle of what we saw last night, the fires, the fear, now we have an arrest. tell us about the feeling on the ground right now. >> well, we're exactly three blocks from you and i last talked when i was out here last night, three blocks that way that's where the police station was, you can still see a fire truck over there shoot water over to the left side of the street. this is how things have changed. last night, there were no fire

trucks around there. over the my right over here, you got two fire vehicles. you just saw police vehicles coming in this way. there was no authority presence last night. no fire, no national guard, no police. there's national guard here, vehicles behind us, they gottier see barriers here and jersey barriers three blocks away and in the distance, you can see police vehicles, that's in front of the 3rd precinct police station which last night there was no police presence after about 11:00 p.m., when the mayor announced that he made the decision to evacuate the 3rd precinct. there were protesters inside that building. to guess now, we don't have confirmation yet, it's my guess now that the police are back in control of the 3rd precinct. you see a lot of police activity around here.

there are centers across minneapolis, where we're seeing some protest activity, including at the hennepin county building and we hear some other ones that are going on but around here the closest to the epicenter of where most of the protests were last night, there actually seems to be more law enforcement, more national guard and mir firefighters. at this point yesterday, it didn't seem particularly tense, there were many, many people than they were and there are still centers. as they created this perimeter, we're three blocks from the epicenter now. they created a perimeter all around. people can gather at the edges. bottom line is, the pay your said last night right after you got off the air, chris, they're able to extend policing services in the 3rd precinct, despite the

police building was handed over to protesters. it does appear they're achieving something. important to know, these are residential areas. one block from the police station are homes. this is a residential area, a lot of people around here are getting concerned to the degree where the fire was spreading and no ability to put the fires out. there's one still burning behind me right now. in the immediate vicinity. it does seem like a very different situation than it was 24 hours ago. >> ali velshi, thank you so much. joining us now is the attorney for the floyd family, benjamin crump. let me start with the obvious which is that this is a family that has been in deep grief, a family that has longed for justice, are they feeling some

sense of justice now? >> well, they're a little relieved today that the officer was finally arrested, however they wanted the charges to be first degree murder, they expected that charge and they continue to demand first degree murder charges. they want this officer held fully accountable for how he callously murdered their gentle giant, george floyd. >> there's something about the horror of seeing this in black and white in the charging documents. it's awful. it's difficult to watch those video tapes, it's seem to be exacerbated by these descriptions. i want to read part of it and get your reaction to it. it said that derek chauvin had his knees on george floyd's neck

for 2:43 after -- two minutes and 43 seconds after george floyd became nonresponsive, that's based on the review of the body camera that was worn. and in total, he was on -- had his knee on floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds. were you aware of those facts before you saw this charging document? particularly the fact that he lost consciousness. >> no, we were not and that's shocking and it's something that the family will have to deal with again, just so much, we knew that it was about 9 minutes that he had his knee on his neck because we watched the video, pain stakingly and we timed it, because we believed with everyone asking them to take the knee off the neck, to let him breathe, the emt literally asked

him 16 times, we counted it, just let me take his pulse the police gave him no humanity for this man who was handcuffed, face down, obviously not doing anything to resist arrests in that position even though they lied in the police report, we did not know that he was unconsciousness 2 1/2 minutes before he finally took his knee off, that's why it should be first degree murder charges. >> from a human perspective, it's hard to argue with that. from a legal perspective, let me ask you about something else that's in the charging document the medical examiner found no findings to support a diagnosis of traumatic aspyxia or strangulation, that floyd had hypertensive heart disease, the combined of effects being restrained by police, his

unzlying health conditions that likely contributed to his death, what's your reaction to that? >> you know, it's just an attempt to try to justify the unjustifiable. what the police did was the proximate cause that caused george floyd's death. he was in good shape. he literally was breathing just fine. it wasn't until these police officers did this excessive use of what became lethal force that killed george floyd. it reminds you of the eric garner case, where they're trying to technically justify the killing of an unarmed black man at the hands of police officers who were supposed to be trained, who were supposed to know how to de-escalate

situation. that's why the charge should be first degree murder, because we know that's what killed him and to be clear, the family's taken custody of the body today and we'll have a noted forensic pathologist perform an independent medical exam on the family's behalf. >> in the men time the other officers, after the one arrest, they want to see the other three officers who are charged, again, on the legal basis, what would be your argument and what do you think the appropriate charges would be for the other officers? >> we believe and we george floyd family absolutely believes they were accomplices to murder, that they should be charged with felony murder. they aided and abetted him in causing the death of george

floyd. particularly interesting that we hear what they were saying since minneapolis police department has a policy that the police officers have body cam video and so that should tell us what was in their mind, what they were saying when they killed george floyd, because that tells us the mental thoughts, was it ill will? i believe we're going to hear something from that audio that tells you they didn't have good will towards george floyd as they kept his knee on his neck even though he was already restrained. >> benjamin crump, thank you so much. let me bring in rev al sharpton. and also with us is nyu professor, melissa murray, who

had cleshgd for justice sonia sotomayor. >> is third degree murder enough here? let me get your overall reaction to the charging document today. >> i don't think that third degree murder is enough, and i don't accept that they didn't arrest all four officers, if you remember yesterday when i was in minneapolis, there was the press conference and the prosecutor mr. freeman said something about there was some evidence that would say this may not be criminal. he tried to clean it up later. now, we have a third degree indictment, not even an indictment, after three, four days, i don't took that long and no arrest on the others. by the same guy who said there may be something that wasn't criminal.

so one really has to look at this prosecutor with a very fine eye to even see whether we're dealing with a prosecutor that wanted to do anything at all and had this family now put the pressure on him and many of us, the protesters put pressure particularly those right there in minneapolis. i don't know if we would have seen an arrest at all. the question is, whether we can get a fair prosecution and whether or not the other three will be arrested. we're determined to stand with this family. i've stayed in close contact through your lawyer, to get the body back and do their own autopsy. they're saying, they want to continue to see people protests in a way that would make justice something achievable. >> but do you think, rev, part of the message that people will take away from this is that it took that violence, it took part of the city being on fired, it

took an attack on a police precinct so that finally after days of saying, we have to see something, we want something done, that a reckoning was finally faced in. >> well if it sends that message that was sent by those in the prosecutor's office that dragged their feet and did not do that, we've gotten cases indicted and gone to trial without violence. so if that's the message sent it's not the fault of the family, certainly not the fault of those of us who have supported and rallied with the family. that's the message that the prosecutor sent, that's a sad message to have sent. the question is, where do we go from here? here's a man who was killed on tape. and we had to wait three, four days to even get a charge, three of them still at large, it clearly is a moment that we have to deal with in this country.

i met add, chris, when we see the president of the united states tweet out something about when the looting starts, the shooting starts, social media even twitter put up this -- put a warning on it. i don't know what facebook is doing. we're monitoring that. but the president says this, on social media, the president of the united states and he comes out and addresses the press today and doesn't speak at all about this town, this city, that's been inflamed, not at all about a policeman being charged, he acts as though he's not the president of some of the most horrific acts that in the national media, the killing of george and the subsequent arrest of this officer. totally oblivious, which to me is a thundering statement in his silence. >> melissa, it's not clear what happened in the period of 24 hours from yesterday where we

heard from the county attorney that they didn't have enough ed to charge, to trooday, he enumerated the evidence they had, based on video, officer body cam, presumably they had from that day, witness statements and the preliminary report from the medical examiner, take a look at the charge for us, what would it take and do you see what -- from what you've seen so far there's enough evidence to potentially charge first degree murder. >> well in minnesota, first degree murder typically requi s requiresingrequires ing aggravating factors. would lead to a charge of first degree murder. otherwise, requires pred m

premeditation. third degree murder, the charge leveled here, requires far less, it's basically a recklessness standard. the idea that the individual, the police officer did some kind act that was inherently dangerous without the intenlt to kill. as mr. crump said earlier, it turns on the officers, whether he had the intent to kill at the time this act was undertaken. that will have to be prove in court. likely here, the prosecutor whether for good or bad, wasn't sure he would be able to make out that larger, broader charge. now it doesn't satisfy the family. i think part of the issue is the way these laws are written. >> well, again, the way the law is written, could it be escalated to first degree murder based on what we're seeing in

this charging document which is for almost 3 minutes, for 2:43 after floyd became nonresponsive, that he kept his knee on his neck. >> it would all go to the question whether the prosecutor can show at trial that by keeping his knee on mr. floyd's neck that it was intended to bring about his death and this was premeditated and considered beforehand. that's a very high standard to meet. if the aggravated was the identity of the victim, you would have an aggravating factor to escalate it. that's now how these statutes are written. one of the reforms that's been agitating around these questions about state violence, whether these first degree murder charges should be changed that

trigger these escalating factors. >> rev, i do want to ask you, given the fact that we're seeing these protests all around the country and great diversity in the people who are protesting, even in minneapolis, we're seeing people of every color, every age, who are coming out, do you feel that somehow this time it's different, could we be at a turning point here or likely looking back on this, five, eight, ten years from now and just have it as another example of an ongoing problem of violen violence? >> i think it's a turning point. i did see yesterday, there were many whites that rallied with us when we were there. we're going to tomorrow. i brought the mother of eric garner with me to minneapolis, tomorrow we're going to the scene where he was choked to death saying, i can't breathe, there will be vigils all over

the country we're involved in. i think the presidential campaigns will now have to deal with this issue and it will be front and center in the november elections. this will be something that i think we'll look back on and say, hopefully, we turned the corner the right way on this. but either way, this will be a moment that we'll not forget and i hope the country rises to that moment. >> rev al sharpton and melissa murray, thank you to most of you. what does the arrest mean for tonight's protests? and what's the message to law enforcement officers. plus, what a contrast in leadership. both men, both candidates for president speaking this afternoon, joe biden trying to calm a wounded nation, while the

president after a 50-minute delay totally and totally off-topic with the mood of the country, not one mention of minneapolis today. we'll talk about it all coming up. up one more bite! ♪ kraft. for the win win.

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given what happened last night in minneapolis, obvious questions about what tonight is going to look and what the arrest of derek chauvin will calm tensions in any significant way. right now, we're monitoring protests under way, just getting started in new york, atlanta, denver, milwaukee, houston and we're obviously monitoring the latest in minnesota. joining us is the black law enforcement alliance and retired nypd detective, mark claxton.

minneapolis is going to be imposing a curfew starting at 8:00 tonight continuing until 6:00 tomorrow morning. when we went out to the location about the city being on fire early this morning, there's a huge police presence something that we didn't see last night. given the curfew, the change in approach, in terms of the police presence, what are you expecting tonight, mark? >> well, i think the largest impact or the mitigation of the protests tonight will be based on the announcement by the prosecutors earlier on, although it's -- just one step along a miles-long journey. that will mitigate some of the protests we'll see tonight.

to support the resources, the m manpower they have on the scene. >> as somebody who knows what it's to be in the middle of difficult situations, does it surprise you to take what we saw, some organized way of dealing with what clearly they've known for days was a volatile situation? >> yeah, i mean, there's a lot of opportunities to offer critical analysis perhaps of the law enforcement response or the lack of law enforcement response. but i think as i indicated last night -- lot of times the law enforcement is a reactive response and sometimes you can get put back on your heels and you don't have the adequate manpower to adequately secure a scene. and i think also what they

realized was that we could have had a much uglier incident last night if there was a direct confrontation between the law enforcement personnel and some of those protesters. keep in mind, many of those proteste protesters, bringing justice to mr. floyd's family, peopyou hav deal other components to come one a good strategy to ensure safe and security of the city. >> i don't know, mark, if you had a chance to listen a few minutes ago to my conversation with rev sharpton, if he thought this might be a turning point and he sounded helpful about that, we talked about the fact that there's great diversity in the crowd n the cities across america, where people are

turning out and saying enough is enough already, but i think what surprised a lot of people, there are a lot of people in your profession, in law enforcement who have come out, normally won't make any comments in an ongoing situation like this the chattanooga police chief who said, there's no need to wait to see how it all plays it out. the san jose police chief, i'd be the first to condemn anyone had i seen a similar thing happen to one of my brothers or sisters. so, do you think that this could also be a turning point in policing in america? >> it could be and listen, i try to be as optimistic as humanly possible and i am hopeful as reverend al is in regards to the eventual march toward justice. but i like many other black people in this country, have a

good and sound and solid historical muscle memory and we can see similarities for example, we can see that some of the prosecutorial steps to this point are reminiscent to what we experienced a few years ago to eric garner. lot of times based on our experience and history and documents, we can pretty much determine which way a case is going to go and travel. we hope it's different. there are many elements of this case that are different. law enforcement professionals coming out and demanding the arrests of their colleague from another jurijurisdiction. that has never happened before. there's room for change. but in reality, this case along with some other cases including the garner case, really are about making a statement on the integrity of our justice system

and when you have a population of people, in this case black and brown people who questioned the integrity of the process, your nation's in trouble. we're in trouble right now and this case along with others determine the integrity of our justice system. >> mark claxton, thank you so much for spending some time with us. it's appreciated. after the break, a conversation about leadership in times of crisis, comparing the responses of joe biden and president trump, next. less and get way more. so you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one. for small prices, you can build big dreams. spend less, get way more. shop everything home at wayfair today.

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you know, i just had an opportunity to speak with the floyd family. once again, we had the words, heard the words and they heard "i can't breathe." an act of brutality that did more than deny one black man in america his civil rights and his human rights. it denied of his very humanity

and his life. with our silence we're complicit in perpetuating these cycles of violence. if we simply allow this wound to scab over once more without treating the underlying injury we'll never truly heal. the very soul of america's at stake. >> joe biden setting an example of what true leadership looks like in a time like this. he's spoke within george floyd's family. something that president trump has not done. as for what trump did, he issued a tweet that was so aggressive twitter hid it saying it glorified violence. in his press conference a short time ago, he made absolutely no mention of minneapolis. as the nation grapples with hard

truths and a need for change. joining us for our conversation former rnc chairman michael steele and former democratic senator claire mccaskill. as if dealing with a pandemic isn't enough, now we're dealing with this, claire, there's no complicated explanation that needs to be made here as people are looking at who they want to vote for for the president of the united states and so much always is, who do you trust in times of crisis, you can't get a much more stark contrast. >> yeah, americans really need presidents to feel their pain. americans yearn for empathy from a president. a president who understand was they're going through. first on the pandemic w over 100,000 dead and then today with a major city in america on fire, with rage and anguish, this president decides just to pass

on commenting on any of that. and thinks we all want to hear about his latest version of how he feels about china. it's startling to me, even on top of everything this president has failed to do that he doesn't understand what's required of leadership at a painful moment like this in our country. >> and the kinds of things, michael, that he said in that tweet, i mean the governor who clearly didn't even want to have to talk about that, but said quite simply, something that's very obvious, he said, you know, in a moment that's so volatile, anything that adds fuel to the fire just shouldn't be. >> well, yeah. i think the tweet gives you a sense of a trump that we've known, before charlottesville, you go to central park five,

this is the man who still contends that, you know, there was a crime committed and they should be punished for it when the evidence clearly exonerated them. so i don't know how we otherwise try to rationalize this, it is what it is. to claire's point the country has to ask itself a lot of hard questions, this stain on the very soul of this country has been there since its founding, since 1619 and we have been grappling with this and the reality of it is, we grappled but we don't confront. we grapple but we don't rally internalize it and have it, have an understanding that's a reflection of us and to your point, yes, we have looked to presidents as we did with bush with 9/11, in calming fears and ugliness around muslims, as we looked to president obama during his time in office with trayvon

martin and other killings of young black men, trying to contextualize this so we can begin as americans to understand it and speak honestly about it. but that's not happening now and it's going to be left to us and maybe a leader like a joe biden if he's elected to help us kind of navigate this, but at the end it's going to have start and stop with us. >> there's a part i want to ask you, a particularly a part of that tweet, claire, he said we'll assume control but when the looting starts the shoot starts, when he was asked about that, something that was said by the miami police chief during racial unrests in 1967, to which he at the time we don't mind being accused of police brutality.

reminds you of when donald trump went to talk with police officers, he felt like he had to issue a clarification today, maybe you can understand what this clarification is, he says looting leads to shooting and that's why a man was shot and killed in minneapolis. i don't want this to happen. it was spoken as a fact not a statement. should i even ask you -- >> i don't even know. i have no words. this is, you know, word salad which is his specialty. it's funny, i was thinking the same thing. i didn't realize it was the in front of police officers, i thought it was at one of his rallies. as a former prosecutor one of the things that e were watching

for were police officers who were crossing the line, and some of the police officers, one of the early warning signs of police officers that might cross the line were the ones as they put a handcuffed suspect into a car they weren't careful to help the system avoid hitting their head hard on the roof of the car as they got in. trump seemed to encourage police officers to do that. to in fact harm suspects as they were putting them in their police vehicles. the irony this, the tragedy stems from trying to put a handcuffed suspect into a police vehicle that was the yen sis of this tragedy a few days ago. so we know this president. he's not going to clean up on aisle five with some kind of word salad like that. he's not careful with what he says, either with his thumbs as he tweets in his bathrobe or from the podium in the white house. >> i'm just going to before we

go to break and you're both going to stay with us, former president obama did say something today about this. he said it falls on of us, regardless our race or station to work together to create a new normal in which legacy of bigotry -- you're staying with us. after the break, joe biden has a decision to make. he has to pick a running mate. how the past couple of days moo it have changed his calculus coming up. about making choices.

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or credit card bills. right now is the time to take care of what matters most. like we've done together, so many times before. discover all the ways we're helping members at usaa.com/coronavirus the events unfolding in minneapolis are adding to the string of incidents involving race in this country, putting pressure on the apparent democratic nominee joe biden to pick a nonwhite running mate. the recent episodes have fueled frustration among nonwhite activists who say they're often ignored until tragedy strikes. michael steele, claire mccaskill are back with me. how will and how should these times weigh on joe biden's decision? >> i think it will.

i don't know if i'd buy that last line from the washington post, this is his atest to his dedication to racial issues. i think there's also got to be the level of partnership that's created out and around the country among african-americans to be at a table with an agenda that's very clearly their agenda and not someone else's that designed by the white man somewhere and said, okay, i understand this is what you guys want, but indications of clarity of what's important to our community. whether as a white person sitting back across from you, it's their commitment to the agenda. we can simplify around the racial aspect of this, but it's much more complex than this.

we're going 30, 40, 50 -- indeed 400 years of this kind of history that has to get addressed and i don't think one person, white or black alone, will do that. >> claire, way back in impeachment, you said keep an eye on val demings, a serious vice presidential candidate. she wrote a powerful op ed in the washington post, she's a former police chief in orlando. as law enforcement officers we took an oath to protect and serve, and those who forgot or who never understood that oath in the first place, must go. does it help her to have been a police chief? >> well, i think it does and remember, she didn't start out as a police chief, she's a very

unusual thing in our country, she's somebody who started as a police officer and worked her way up to a police chief in a very male-dominated world. so she's an extraordinary leader and left her job with high marks all around the community. so -- listen, i don't think it lurt her, i do think there are so many strong candidates for vice president that are women of color, whether they are latina. i think joe biden has a large bench to choose from and each one of them is going to have to prove they can be presidential and they'll want to help him reform our justice system. now, one of the tricks about this, which we don't like to point out, so much of our criminal justice system is done at the state level. and the president and congress

have no authority over state law. this man in minnesota is being charged under state law and will be prosecuted by stat prosecutors. that's how 95% of the crime in this country is prosecuted. to crime in this country is prosecuted. in order to impact state and local police departments you have to start at the top but you also have to build from the bottom and he needs a vice president that knows that also. >> how much of this do you think ultimately, and we talk about this all the time, michael, you know, there are things that happen in every single presidential race that were unexpected. certainly the pandemic that we're in the middle of was not expected. but i think, also, to the point earlier, the reaction to this particular death of a black man at the hands of police feels different to a lot of people. so how much do you think gets

influenced by, for lack of a better term, news of day? how much of it is about the relationship? i think it's always a given, certainly in the case of joe biden who served and knows what that office is about. somebody who could step in and be president of the united states. but how much do what's happening right now, whether it's the pandemic, whether it's police violence, how much of that do you think can influence what joe biden ultimately decides here? >> i think it all will. it has to. there are innumerable calculations that a vice presidential, excuse me, presidential candidate is making about building out his or her team. and the vice president is arguably the first pick and the one that says a lot about the tone and the direction and the kind of administration that the president would like to have. so, yeah. it will matter. and these events are going to influence that.

when you start to look at these events you also have to see how they're weighted by the american people. coronavirus is a constant so far. they're already talking about, yes. it could be back in the fall so people are planning and thinking about this. this shooting along with the two other shootings that have happened since march with, you know, mr. abery and others, those are one off so you kind of have to make them a part of the permanent conversation like coronavirus for the voters and put it all together in terms of the package of leadership they're looking for for president in 2020. >> michael steele, claire mccaskill, it's friday. take the weekend off. great to see both of you. >> yes. >> all right. >> we'll see. we'll see if you show up on msnbc over the weekend. after the break we'll take a quick moment to remember those lives very well lived. our offid

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the news today has obviously been focused on the death of george floyd and the reaction across america but we also wanted to set aside a few minutes this afternoon for the pandemic which clearly is still with us and also to celebrate some lives well lived. when ruth flores found out her youngest son needed expensive surgery back in the early 1970s she left her home in ecuador and came to the united states. she endured 12-hour long shifts at a factory along with the sudden loss of two children, but she persisted and was able to bring her other children to america where they would attend high school and later college. as a testament to the good that she brought into this world, after she died of the coronavirus ruth's family organized a fund not for them but for care givers in a beautiful facebook post ruth's

son said his mom was feisty yet sweet and despite her 4'10" stature her strength was unmatched and her heart was larger than all others. we also want to remember sergeant simon zamudio today a u.s. army reservist in illinois just promoted last month. he was 34 years old when he died of the coronavirus. a father of an 11-month-old daughter, zoe, he will be remembered for his humor and his outgoing nature. as if that family didn't have enough grief to bear already, simon's mother died of the virus three days after her son. so we're thinking about them today and all of the victims of the coronavirus. that's going to do it for this hour. our coverage will continue with chuck todd as well as a live interview with joe biden by our own craig melvin right after this quick break. what getting fueled with three energy packed proteins feels like. meat! cheese! and nuts!

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