national guard soldier and wanting to find glowery in killi glory in killing one of our citizen soldiers. that's the type of person out there right now. >> can you walk us through a timeline. so what was the plan plan initi can you address the reports that the national guard has been pulled. >> that is not true. >> was the guard redirected back out? can you explain what happened? >> this is a battle plan of what goes. it would be great to execute it perfectly if the folks that you are going against did exactly what you wanted but the moment you do it, everything changes. with the here is numbers out there they have to make real time movements. the national guard, they are fully engaged the entire time. it is so broad and stretched across such a broad area.

general jensen, you can talk about it. >> so that force that was on lake street arrived yesterday morning with the minnesota state patrol. they secured their location throughout the day. this evening in support of the state patrol they continued their operations. there came a point this evening where the recommendation from the police officers they were in direct support of were to leave the area and leave the area immediately and they followed those directions and followed their police brothers and sisters out of the area. our team then went and reoccupied an assembly area where they would reorganize and prepare for a follow on mission. the force never left minneapolis. they remained in minneapolis. they have been redirected in support of the department of

public safety. the mission that i mentioned is where the force was relocated to. they remain there. >> we are hearing reports that it is not only the criminal element that was here but now white supremacists have come here and are causing destruction. >> the unconfirmed reports, and we are trying to get that. we have intel from all of the different agencies. i can confirm personally. my suspicions, yes. the cartels that are wondering if there was a break in their drug transmissions are trying to take advantage of the chaos is there too. that is why it is on a federal

level. highly coordinated across the country. this is the conversation that we are having with the president. to be clear with those that will legitimately grieve george floyd's death are going to gather here, it is a highly volatile situation. the folks that want to do this blend in. you look at the pictures looks like they are strolling. 8:00 is coming. they didn't come to stroll or go home. they came asking where the guard is and how they are responding. think of having no rules. our folks are the professionals. our intention is to restore order. we want them to do nothing more than go home. we don't want them arrested or have violence on the streets. i don't know if john can speak

anymore on unconfirmed reports but it is clear by now when you have a situation like this across the country elements like that are gathering and they are professionals. we are seeing evidence of a sophisticated attempt to cause problems. >> we have intel and reports that have been confirmed. i cannot say that we have confirmed observations of local law enforcement to say we have cells of white supremacists in the area. we had reports but to the national guard and others, but i do not have confirmed reports to give you at this point. speaking to the governor's point, we also have national sources also got reports drug

cartels that were directing their resources to restore their drug markets in some of the areas that were looted and some of the businesses that were operated by them. we are still trying to work through that. that is at best a secondary concern as we are trying to deal right now with life and death situations on the street. >> governor, this is a question for you and the mayor. it is an extremely volatile situation. three and a half hours to attempt to enforce the curfew. >> i would go back to the here is volume of this. thousands. to detain one person, not like they are going to let you do it. to detain one person in a

volatile environment. it takes several folks. you have to get them on a vehicle and transport them out of there. it is a heavy, heavy lift to do so. people decide not to do it can you arrest everybody? no. there are not enough people to do it. this is the largest concentration of law enforcement in the history of minnesota and it is not enough. i will talk to john about it. minnesota state patrol. the issue has been a tactical issue. as we looked at crowds reaching 35 w and we had to make a decision, do we leave our posts we were assigned and been designated as critical

infrastructure points that they wanted to make sure were not breeched or lost, you had to make a decision with the mobile assets that you have where you can put them and where they can be effective. general jensen said, when we looked at the lake street east area, as we looked to how would we enforce the curfew in that area it quickly became apparent that with several thousand of people in civil disobedience mode we did not have 150 to 200 mobile field force the adequate staff to do that. pulling people back out of what looked to be an area where they were encircled, assaulted and injured. we regrouped and made tactical

decisions about where we could be most effective with the resources that we had. you identify targets where we have people, disruption, where are the battles that you can engage with. we made the decision that we would go in to do mass arrests. so we have started to do that. but that is also, once again that process that you push the crowd. you make your orders. you hold your line. you have to have an arrest team that will do that. booking and processing and you then have to reconstitute that and reorganize and then move to the next target which is what we have done now. >> my follow up question is if you underestimated or didn't know there would be that many people on the streets tonight what made you believe after four nights of this constant chaos, why was it underestimated? why wasn't the assistance and the numbers there?

>> i would say that we underestimated it in part because we listened to many members who said decisions that were made today and activities that we made today would reduce the numbers of individuals that would be on the streets tonight by a significant number. clearly that information and the information that we based on decisions on turned out to be wrong. quite clearly the numbers were not just a little bit larger than they had been the night before when we were able to effectively move and clear out a wide spot of lake street. the numbers got to be bigger. they were more aggressive. and they were less concentrated than they had been in previous nights where we had been focused just on the lake street and third precinct area.

we now had 35 w, downtown minneapolis. we knew we had issues on the north side of minneapolis. earlier we still have to do the work that is happening on the st. paul side of the line. st. paul has been engaged with folks and with the national guard holding on there. part of it is you look at your numbers and what you believe the threat profile is what you have been able to do in the past. we underestimated the numbers and we underestimated the tactics. we had not seen individuals in these crowds fire upon officers. we saw shootings, but it had not been directed towards officers, and that changed the dynamics incredibly by making just moving in with a mobile field force far more dangerous and far more

fraught as we decided how we are going to move forward, and we are still moving forward. now we have to worry about are we going to take fire as we try to take back lake street. >> if i can talk about these numbers too, this is a responsibility that i need to make. if you are not involved in the numbers there is a belief that just bring overwhelming force. what are you holding back for? we have 650 minnesota state patrol. when you are operating a force not all can be up at the same time. we can use every single, which we are, minnesota state trooper and it dwarves the numbers that are out there. it is not like there is an unlimited number. there are other operations that have to happen. these people will be smart and everything that is happening. they will move. they will move elsewhere. they will move to the suburbs if

you see that happen. you have to keep the force there. that is why the consultation with the federal government and federal governors and now they are thinking how do we deploy the assets into other places once they see the unrest. it is not for lack of planning. aren't you ready for this? yes. we put a force on the ground larger than anything ever deployed with the most qualified troops on there and you are seeing people saying where are they. there is a finite number of folks. think about it with these people. we just say everything is locked down. you walk out of your house in the morning, they will still be there. they do not care. that is the problem that we are solving. i would say with that being the case, and it's a tough one, we have a responsibility to solve it and to figure it out. that is the next move we are

making with the national guard. those are the moves that we will think about and have tonight about this plan for tomorrow. >> governor, i did not realize he would stay for questions. i know you were not on board with the decision to abandon the precinct the other night, did that embolden the protesters again tonight and did it change the tactics that you used to protect the fifth precinct in terms of not abandoning that. >> yeah. i think this is a good time. i want to make sure that in critiquing on this and today being asked questions my intent is not to critique the decision that mayor frye made, the criticisms about the decisions after last night, those end with me. the situation you can't allow it

to happen the way it did in new york city. yes. they are important strategic positions. it is a psychological effect. they are trying to start chaos. the people being scared. the governor of minnesota standing here at 2:00 a.m. makes them as happy as can be. our goal is to provide peace and security and a decent life for people they don't care about. >> why wait to accept the help offered by president trump if it looks like 1,000 more troops won't be enough? why not tell him tonight yes we will take them and try to put an end to this. >> we are talking about it. one thing is what the number looks like. i want to be clear with everyone. and resources and things like that. it is not a small step going

back to insurrection act about having federal forces on land. that said it is irresponsible not to look at all sources that are there. this is not about a resistance but about understanding the checks and balances in terms of what you are going to get by doing this. can you amount federal military army folks. these folks want that fight. if this ends with a massive presence and a conflict with folks trying to bring that, that is not bringing back order. we are assessing it. general jensen, i don't know if you want to say anything. we are looking at it and assessing if it is enough. i have to be candid with all of you. we are looking at doubling the size of the force of putting people on there and my assessment with my team and looking at the numbers and what is going to happen tomorrow is to decide is that enough. that is what is happening right

now. the answer might be no. >> you anticipate this going on for many days and not just over the weekend. >> it certainly could and it would be irresponsible not to plan for this. this is where i need the public and those legitimate folks that are grieving to take it back for the right reason. why are we talking about anpeop burning down damn buildings instead of talking about a horrific situation where a police officer murdered and was charged for the death of a black man. we lost that in there. i need the public to rise up and i need to know they are madder than hell, but we have to stop this first to get the other. >> this is important for clarity. >> he went back to make sure he

was monitoring his eoc. he has the situation he is out there. i am with the leadership making those decisions. >> one more question. after four more days you really criticized him this morning. >> yeah. >> what is going on with the governor and the mayor? >> nothing is happening. we are trying to figure out and coordinate something that hasn't been coordinated before. the state of minnesota is not a police force. we have a chaotic situation that is going on and there were differences of decisions being made. i said make the criticism to me. there is an incredible frustration. the mayor's city is burning down. our nation is that way. i want to tell you that there is no gap between there. for those that think there was undo criticism, that is unfair. he is doing everything he can.

he is making decisions with the best information he has. i accept that responsibility. it is imperative that we are working together. we are on the phone 15 to 20 times per day and the same with mayor carter, we are in close communication. we would ask all of you how important me being here. we are managing the numbers and looking at this in real time. i am more than happy to talk to you about our planning. right now our responsibility is restoring that order. the mayors are valued partners. >> governor, thanks. >> thanks everybody. >> that is tim walz, the governor of minnesota addressing reporters along with advisors on his team working on public safety in the state of minnesota and deploying the naustional gud in the state of minnesota and

heard from the mayor jacob frye. the message from the governor to the people of minneapolis and st. paul, go home. directing a lot of criticism and the unrest we have seen with the fact that many businesses have been burned down and ruined as a result. praise there for the mayor at the end. we learned about the perceived tension that erupted between the two of them. talking about the magnitude of the response that we have seen to the unrest that has taken place. the governor emphasizing the fact that there hasn't been a response like this in the history of the state of minnesota. as you heard there in the last exchange with the reporter about how long it might last and the governor says he is prepared for many days more and not just over the course of the weekend. joining me now is a retired nypd

detective and a former prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst. mark, let me start with you. i was talking about the size of the force assembled here. the governor saying when all is said and done we might have 1,700 national guardsmen there in minnesota to try to bring peace back to the cities of minneapolis and st. paul. there were a number of questions about why they haven't been more visible and a candid response they are outnumbered with the amount of protesters and the amount of people trying to inflict harm outnumbers the amount of law enforcement they have there in the twin cities. >> yeah. i think the governor was frank and honest as well as the mayor with the fact they are severely under resourced and out flanked and on their heels when they

hoped to have been ahead of the situation and better at predicting what could happen over the next several hours. it is an unfortunate situation. this is twhawhat happens when y have such a fluid situation. it requires almost, you know, hourly shifts and tactics and lo gestjes gistics. the governor is going to increase the manpower. it is also important to recognize, and i believe that he does recognize this that you have different types of protesters. you have individuals there for legitimate reasons about a specific cause and that is mr. floyd's death.

you have two different types, criminal opportunists who will use the distractions of legitimate protests and demonstration to camouflage their criminal dogs. then you have professional anne arcists. they are trying to destroy and breakdown the framework in all systems and mechanisms. there are anarchist groups on the ground in minneapolis and across the nation and their goal is to disrupt, destroy and diminish the government. with the governor acknowledging that and strategizing forward hopefully they will provide enough manpower to protect the critical infrastructure and preserve the human life.

>> a quote from the governor, this is not about george floyd's death or the inequities that are real, this is about creating chaos. there was a real sense of frustration on the part of the governor and the mayor about enforcing all of this. there were questions about the curfew in place tonight from 8:00 in the evening until 6:00 a.m. local time and basically it took hours for there to be enforcement of the curfew. the governor saying it is difficult to get people to comply to an order like that when you have quantities of the likes we had tonight. there were more people out on the streets and more chaos in the twin cities than we saw the three days preceding last night. >> right. he also said if we don't do something different this is what will be going on for the entire weekend. i personally did not have much

confidence that they have the resources that they need. and it does not sound like he have much kchconfidence to stop this. probably have more national guard, but they have a huge problem. they need some federal help in order to get their city under control. >> mark, do you think the numbers he is talking about will be enough? the governor mentioning the fact this is the largest civilian deployment we have seen in the state of minnesota's history. 1,700 national guardsmen is a sizeable number. how worries are you about the quantity of law enforcement there to, you know, end the kind of unrest we have seen over the last four nights. >> i personally do not believe that 1,700 will be enough when you have 1,000 on the ground right now. it appears like there are large segments of the city where there is no coverage and defense of

the criminal element of the anarchi i anarchist. the governor and the mayor mentioned this as well. sometimes you kind of gauge what you think that you may need manpower wise on what is happening on a daily basis. they expected that with the announcement of criminal charges against one of the police officers that there would be a lesser crowd. they got the lesser of the demonstrators there in regards to mr. floyd but what happened is that the criminal opportunities flooded the area and made up that space and the anar anarchists. they are seizing their opportunity to destroy property, jeopardizing life, challenging

law enforcement. they are about absolute destruction of the governmental structure. >> that was going through your head as you listened to the commissioner for public safety there in the state of minnesota. cartels being involved here. the difficulty of this is becoming more complex as it goes on. >> his opinion that the white supremacists are trying to take advantage of this as well. i think it is important to communicate to people that the chargers that were filed today were serious charges. we had discussions about a first degree or second degree. third degree murder is a serious charge carrying a penalty of 25 years to life.

>> if they can communicate to those people to stay home they can have a better chance of getting control of this. my sense about the entire press conference is that they do not have a handle on it and they are pretty desperate for help. our coverage continues right here on msnbc. continues right here on msnbc.

>> our coverage continues here in new york looking at pictures of sacramento, the capital of california. protests taking place there. a small group thanks by police

cars blocking the road there in sacramento. protests taking place across the country in atlanta, brooklyn, las vegas, los angeles, big protests downtown. you can see police trying to move protesters back there in downtown los angeles. these protests were going on for several hours now in the city of los angeles. the epicenter of all of this in minneapolis and st. paul. the protest started because of the death of george floyd. i want to go back to something i was talking about a few moments ago, the police response to this or the lack thereof. that was the story last night as we saw the precinct erupt in flames and the mayor allowing that to take place. what are you making of it happening here a second night in a row. yesterday he insisted that things were under control. you can hear the governor say

things are under control as well and talked about using the national guard to a greater degree. your response to the lack of fires here tonight. >> yeah. i don't think they have found the right level in minneapolis yet. you want want proper level of restraint. you have to be the civil authority, you know. looking at the video from l.a. that we just saw the officers are in force. you saw an lapd injured prior to the break. there is some action there. but the police are there. police have to be there. they have to act with the right equipment. they are with some danger. minneapolis hasn't found the right spot yet. the city can't take all of the

arson. they are letting commercial structures burn so they can make a decision from afar that one does not look like it is going to spread if you get firestorms that can occupy multiple apartments, you can't sit back. you have to be protected by troopers or guardsmen or minneapolis p.d. how much can a city take. the other part you have to get some of the arsonists. the city can take some of this. i think from commanders using restraint and watching a car burn in the street and not overreacting or a commercial building they don't want to

risk, too much violence over that. there is a level you can't keep letting it go on. people marched for justice are gone. this is about destruction and arson. when i was a little boy my dad was a new jersey fireman. national guard, the city burning. shot in the back. a shot through the back.

fire department or the police department never stopped going. they kept going. they suffered casualties for it. i think we can do it smarter today. we are better. we are wanting to keep fire and police safe. they can't let the arson go on. >> stay with us. i am going to bring in two of my favorite lawyers. i want to go back to that document that i brought up a few minutes ago. joyce, i want to get your reaction to what we heard from the county prosecutor and the u.s. attorney. preparing these charges takes time. they moved quickly under normal circumstances.

your reaction and what you think might happen next. >> it does take time to bring charges, david. that can be frustrating for communities and frustrating for all of us watching this. but it is important that law enforcement get it right. you don't want to push to get the evidence and then have a technical problem that makes it inadmissible in court. prosecutors appear to have brought charges they can use as the basis for an arrest. whether or not it is the final charge remains to be scene. under minnesota law there is a distinction between the third degree murder charge that was filed. a depraved heart murder. the type of situation someone fires a gun into a crowded building. they might not intend on killing someone. that is an easier charge to prove than first degree murder

requiring proof of premeditation and intent. the way that prosecutors will work towards that is by talking to the other officers and sorting out who will be a witness and who will be a defendant and talking to witnesses and looking at all of the videotape. this is compelling. i have tried police cases. they are hard. i lost a couple of big ones. we tried but the juries did not convict. i never had a case like this with a murder on tape of 2:43 seconds where a police officer has has knee on the defendant's neck. it is hard to tell by looking at the video but there is a point where he bounces on his neck. that is the evidence of intent that could enhance to first

degree murder. >> there you can see los angeles, the protests continuing in downtown los angeles. i will turn to you and read a bit from my complaint. the defendant had his knee on mr. floyd's neck for 8:46. 2:53 of this was after mr. floyd was non-responsive. that 2:53 a rallying cry for members of the community there in minneapolis and those across the country withhold like more done here. >> right. not only that but several times one of the officers said to him do you think we should turn him on the side and the defendant said no. we are going to keep him where he is. the other thing where the department of justice can help is the history of this officer. this is an investigation that takes a lot of time.

what about the prior complaints. what was his reputation. do other officers think he goes after arrestees and uses too much force? what do we know about those incidents. those are the things that need to be investigated in order to make a decision whether or not it will be superceded. i think that some people are pushing and pushing and pushing and promising there will be a first degree murder indictment and i think that would be very difficult to prove intent and premeditation. you know we need to be honest with people. truth is an investment. there are a couple of things. to me that is likely possible because of the facts that we have but unlikely. unlikely the department of

justice will charge. people need to understand that so they are not disappointed and angry. >> mark, i have a question about policy going forward here. i talked to my colleague about what happened there in louisville. in the city of atlanta you had the police chief going out there to meet with protesters to talk to them. the mayor of minneapolis appeared this evening with the chief of police saying he has 100% faith in the chief of police. what more needs to be done from a policy perspective? what needs to happen with that and the community and what can be done in parallel with what is happening on that? >> you know, doing the top to bottom review of all of the policy manuals and all of the

training and tactics. especially after such an incident as this. he expressed he is reform-minded there might be evidence suggested around for the past several years, you know, a lot of law enforcement and civil rights organizations. i suspect at least in minneapolis that they would be looking for ways to show some movement towards reform and making substantial moves as far as tactics, procedures, policies, and also quite frankly also about some human resources and retention. those would be issues moving

forward i am sure. >> i want to get your reaction to what you are seeing here tonight. i want to take stock of how it is happening so widely in so many cities across the country. watching seattle, sacramento, los angeles, oakland as well. it is not uniform. the response is different. the way the cities are deploying their police forces as well. help us with the macro perspective. watching it all unfold and how significant it is to see the protest across the country. >> it is quite disturbing. i would make sure to have conversations with my friends and family members. try to get an idea and feel about what is going on on the ground. but this level of danger and this type of uncertainty for

police officers, it is part of what is expected of you as a professional police officer. these are occasions that you have to rise to the occasions and oftentimes place yourself in harm's way. it is difficult and difficult for law enforcement professionals like myself to watch. and there comes a point and there comes a time that you are going to have to be a bit more assertive. what shape or form that takes and where the strategy works best will be determined on the ground according to the available resources and the equipment that they have. but there has to be a point of beginning the process of reclaiming the territory and preventing further damage or loss of life. >> i will put a version of that question to the organizer of

black lives matter. thank you very much for being here. how are you reacting to seeing this level of protest in so many cities across the country. >> i am reminded that this is avoidable and the violence that started all of it is the killing of george floyd and in 2020 the police killed as many people in march and april of 2020 than they did in 2019. even with covid and lockdowns in city and historic decrease of crime happening at the same time the police killed the same rate and the same number. that is what got us here right. it was an insult that the d.a. did the press conference where there is more evidence. the evidence the world saw looks

pretty wild. we have seen people convicted for 50, 60, 70 years with less evidence than that. time and time again the police should have been ready for this and the mayor should have seen these things would be the outcome. i am shocked at the failure of leadership at the police level and mayor's level and the governor of minnesota to contain it on the front end and they just didn't. >> i will ask you about this moment in time looking at photos and images of what is happening in sacramento. you see a stand off there. what was it like when there is an unsteady stand off between protesters and police. what was going through your minds then and now. what they are thinking at this

point. there is a stand off. in the short time frame of just tonight what they are thinking and is likely to happen next? >> people are trying to be safe. being out on the street is hard. a lot of people have never been in the street. everybody that i know that put their body on the line. not something to glamorize. we did it because it was important and the right thing to do to make sure that these issues got as much attention as they could. we think of ferguson, in the streets for 400 days straight. but still in the moments people are upset and compounded by the fact people have been in the house for what feels like forever. you think about this, i do think the police have realized that having a solely wild military response like they did in st. louis because we got teargassed

in coffee shops. but police departments all over the country are still killing at a wild rate. a third of people killed by a stranger in the united states is killed by a police officer. that is wild. i don't know why people think there would not be rage until we change it. minneapolis, chokeholds are not even banned. the mayor and the police chief could ban them tomorrow. it is a choice. >> i want to go back to you on this point, the unrest in cities across the country. there is a hunger and need for uniform effort to reform police process. anything like that percolating or happening at this point? it did not happen after ferguson. is it likely to happen this time around? >> not likely but there have been in the past significant

movements and planning around police reform, you know, in general law enforcement reform and in specific police reform. 21st century task force during the previous administration. in order to transform and change the relationship and dynamic it has to be a reform model in place as a result of this tragedy unlike previous tragedies. perhaps this is the mechanism to go forward with a complete reform and minneapolis may be the place to start that reform movement with understanding and taking into account everything from activists, law enforcement

professionals, everyone involved. >> i want to turn to you if i could. mentioning the kind of evidence that we have seen. video of this death from multiple vantages and how does it change the story and the process going forward. having the abundance of evidence. the fbi's ability to clarify or increase the resolution of or amplify the video that we have of the killing of the death of george floyd. how do things change when it comes to using the evidence and presenting the evidence in a court of law? >> you know, the advantage here is that it lets a jury view the

crime through the eyes of the victim. in police cases it often comes down to juries don't like to convict police officers. this thing is more than a he-said, she said situation. there are other options here. bringing in the notion of the policing report which i hope will be revitalized now doj could do a civil process that would essentially end in a decree that would force the police department to reform practices, do better training and make sure that you don't have an officer with 17 incidents that go unaddressed on his record and requires a multiplicity of legal approaches but the video is the key to

making them understand how significant the problem is. i think there are a lot of people that would like to sigh this move faster. but how difficult is it to come up with a case and do the investigation that you have the public scrutiny that has been taking place. >> it is intense. i have worked in that division. it is very intense. there is a relationship between the federal and the state government. one thing we have not seen is critical evidence. the body cam footage that needs to be released. you saw in the indictment there were these little quotes. the prosecutor is looking

carefully about what the officers were saying to each other at the time. one officer said repeatedly to the defendant officer maybe we should turn him. maybe we should turn him. the officer with his knee on george floyd's neck refused to do that. that type of evidence will be very important in addition to all of the prior investigations and what we learn about the officer from the investigations. but the pressure is intense. it is just going to go up and up and up until they make a final decision on the final charges. >> last question to you drawing on your experience with the department of justice. we heard from the president and the attorney general bill barr on this matter and i wonder how much you are thinking the role that justice in washington will play on that going forward and what questions does that raise for you how seriously the d.o.j.

will take what happened here in minneapolis? >> so, typically in a situation like this d.o.j. gets the first opportunity to bring criminal charges to the local and state agencies involved and there is a policy at d.o.j. saying they should be hesitant to bring a criminal prosecution after the state has brought one. we try to let the local people control their own cases. there are situations where a federal interest is unaddressed in state charges and you might see the feds come in. but once there is a state criminal prosecution in play that is likely to be the only one we will see. that does not mean there is not an important role to play. that is assistance on accountability and on police reform in this situation. there is a great tool kit in place left from the obama

administration promoting police and community engagement. the time to build that is not in the middle of a crisis. it is along the line through community policing on a day-to-day basis. this police department in minneapolis. in georgia. those departments need to rebuild their relationships. it won't be easy work but it is critical if we are going to avoid these cities in crisis. >> thank you very much. thanks to mark and jim kavanaugh as well and the unrest we are seeing across the country. the unrest continues across this country catalyzed by the killing of george floyd on memorial day,

the fourth day of unrest in the city of minneapolis and the charging document introduced earlier this week. our coverage continues here on msnbc throughout the night. coven msnbc throughout the night

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>> thank you so much. i appreciate it. thank you as well for joining us this hour. as we come on the air tonight we are following protests taking place across the nation after the death of george floyd. and this station continues to react to the death. an unarmed black man that died after pleading for his life while in the custody of police. the twin cities of minneapolis and st. paul are under mandatory curfew coming hours after murder and manslaughter charges were announced after the police officer was seen kneeling on mr. floyd's neck as he repeatedly

said i can't breathe. that began more than three hours ago and some protesters are still in the streets as of this hour. we saw minneapolis authorities pushing back demonstrators. auts pushing back demonstrators teargas and flash bangs. andd although minneapolis and . paul are still reeling tonight, they are not the only cities that are facing unrest. peaceful protests in atlanta turned violent earlier with buildings damaged and police vehicles set on fire. thousands have gathered in new york with clashes breaking out between demonstrators and police. more thanmo 700 miles away from the twin cities in louisville, kentucky, protests have taken to the streets for the second night of demonstrations as that city reels not only from the death of george floyd, but also from the death of breonna taylor, a 26-year-old emergency medical technician who was shot by police inside her home earlier this year. now, we're watching all of those protests and many more that are

ongoing at this hour. but we begin in minneapolis with my colleague ali velshi. ali, i know you've been moving from location to location over the course of the night. tell where you are and what you're seeing around now. >> all right. i'm going to step out of the shot so that miguel can give you a clear shot in front of us down lake t street. and what you've got is a number of protests in tth prot protest street. you can see thete stop and shop there's some smoke in the air, but you see the stop and shop and they've broken -- the protesters have broken a hole in the scaffolding and are lewding

that. a and then we'll go over to the right, it is more smoke. something is on m fire there. and there's something burning on that side. above us is a black hawk helicopter that has just been circling at relatively low altitude probably well under a thousand feet the whole time keeping an eye on what's going on. but that fire, that smoke is growing and billowing. it's moving over to where we in front of us. the fifth precinct still appears to have police in it and that doesn't seem to be any direct confrontation between protesters and the police. they're moving their way around the city. but what's important in this shot is to's understand what th curfew went intowh effect at 9:00 p.m. eastern. at no point has there been anything that looks like a curfew in this city. there's no national guard frens, no minneapolis police presence, and no state police presence. this is a night in which the protesters are controlling the streets at least in some parts of minneapolis and its suburbs.

joy. >> thank you very much, ali. appreciate it. ali velshi host of velshi here on saturday and sundays. i want to go over to retired nyp director of public relations for the black law enforcement alliance. mark claxton. thanks for being here tonight. give us the perspective of police tonight. there is a sense of, i'll say, siege that the black community feels at the hands of police. police are now out here in cities across the country attempting to protect cities and businesses and properties, et cetera. but, you know, how are average police officers thinking about what happened to mr. floyd? >> i can hear you, joy, think joy's asking these questions. >> oh, i don't think that he can hear me. i don't think mark claxton can hear me. can you hear me, mark? >> i can hear you now, joy. i'm sorry. >> you can hear me.

great, listen, it's live television in thete midst of a pandemic on top of this that we're seeing now. so i'm going to ask again, there is a sense of siege that the black community feels, a sense of exhaustion, a sense of fear of police, a sense of helplessness in a lot of ways that'sss producing the anger th you're seeing on your screen and you're seeing all over the country. but i'm wondering if you can give us the perspective of how law enforcement officers feel, particularly black law enforcement as african-americans, how do they feel about what happened to mr. george? >> in general, law enforcement, of course, feels increased pressure, increased scrutiny. of course being placed additionally in the line of fire, figuratively speaking. as far as black and brown law enforcement is concerned, i think they made their feelings quite evident and quite obvious on social media. there are facebook posts

indicating their support for the arrest of these police officers. and that's something that's never really happened before, regardless of the cases. the most egregious cases you've never had a lot of police officers, black and brown police officers primarily, but of all colors, all ranks, of all different departments universally condemning the actions ofhe a colleague of the and demanding for justice and an arrest of a police officer. so there are some mixed emotions going on there. but that's all part and parcel of what you do as a police officer, as a professional law enforcement officer. >> land, you know, the four officers who confronted mr. george were not all white. one of them was asian-american, yet, no one related enough to the man on the ground to say to the lead -- the main detective who had his, you know, his body, his physical weight, his forearm

rest oo resting on his neck and pressing down on him, no one said stop. why do you suppose that is? and is this a case for making sure that in communities where black people are being policed that there need a to be black officers present? andce do you think had there be somebody, a black police officer there, thatac there's a chance that somebody would have said stop? >> well, first off, why they didn't stop their colleague, their partner from slowly and gradually increasing pressure on mr. floyd's neck and leading to his death is because they were coward. and, quite frankly speaking, that's really, you know, the sentiment across the country and as far as professional law enforcement is concerned, because they were cowards. they had anen obligation do something and stop that and they failed to do so. that'sdo why they share in the responsibility and many of us have been calling for their arrest as wellll in regards to this. now, the question about whether

or not if you increase brown and black representation in police department and law enforcement across a the board, it will mak any significant difference, i think without changing the very culture of policing, it won't make that much of a difference. i frankly believe and i've discussed this before, that oftentimes black and brown individuals who come from these communities that feel under siege get into police departments and become subsumed by the police culture and disregard and reject their own culture and experiences and even the experiences of their own family. so the idea, the challenge is to shift and change and attack and reform the police culture. and then you'll see some significant movement in as far as recognizing the humanity of people. >> you know, i think the thing that is one of the most chilling things about that video, you know, other than the fact that

you essentially are watching the end of thisy man's life is watching the lead police officer just stare right at the witnesses. they knew they were being watched, and that didn't impact them at all. is thatth about the power of police unions and the confidence that police officers have that even in a case where someone dies, as s george floyd did, th nothing's going to happen to them? that they feel perfectly confident in continuing to do what they were doing even though they knew they were being watched and recorded? part -- it's part of the dynamic of these unions, as you indicated earlier, i was watching earlier some of the comments you made about the power ofco unions. police unions do wield a lot of power. but it's deeper than that. it is part of the culture of policing and the arrogance. i was speaking so some people earlier onea today because ways wondering what makes people react to this particular incident so viscerally and so angrily and so outraged? i mean, a reaction like i said

from law enforcement professionals across the nation. and a friend of mine explained it to me in a way i should have understood from the very beginning that the is because what he saw was an individual who, in his smugness, you know, stared directly and defiantly in the face of all civilians and black people in general and really was determined to execute, to conduct a judicial execution on the street. and it was his smugness, the appearance, the posturing, that really connects to people's emotions and have outraged people across the nation. so it's a larger police culture. culture issue in police departments, unless there's a shiftnt in the change, we will continue to have these examples of tragic incidents. and unless there's complete and total revolutionary police reform, we'll be back here time

and time again discussing these very issues. >> andss in the case of officer scott, because of another brave person that taptd killing of mr. scott that officer did go to jail. do you think that the real answer here is that prosecutors have to be brave enough to separate them self enough from law enforcement who are t their partners and theo prosecute th, orte the outside groups? senator kamala harris suggested earlier when i spokeka with hert may need to be someone else other than the prosecutors who partner with police t to do prosecutions. that maybe if more officers went to prison for killing suspects, subjects who are in their custody, that that is the only thing that will actually change that culture you talk about. >> yeah, that is absolutely what will change the culture if police officers understand and actually see their colleague who went off the farm, so to speak,

go to prison, go to jail. therego has to be a punishment associated with everything. we can increase rules and regulations and add laws and committees and task forces. until police officers who go rogue, go renegade are put in jail or in prison, there will not be a significant or substantive change. quite frankly what people are looking at now are saying to s themselves, this is a matter of the integrity of the justice system for black and brown people. if you cansy allow for extra judicial executions on the street under the code of law, then black and brown people will defiantly state there is no integrity n in this justice system. the system isin broken or, perhaps, working like it's always been planned to work. but there is no justice for black people. >> well stated. marq claxton, retired nypd detective. appreciate youd taking the tim this early, early morning or

late, late night to speak with us about this issue. thank you. >> thank you, joy. >> t thank you. and we have also scene large demonstrations in new york city. protests which begin outside the barclay center in brooklyn soon turned violent as protesters clashed with police. hundreds of demonstrators marred throu marched through the town. there was a tweet we have a long night ahead of us in brooklyn. we don't want to ever see another night like this. gentleman mann jamani, this is my old neighborhood. i lived here for a long time. to see this neighborhood in this state is difficult. what should people know about the emotions of people innntle york city tonight? >> well, thank you so much for having me, you know, always being a k space for this kind o

discussion. the emotions are like what we've seen a across the country, peop are tired, people are fed up, and they're not okay. i'm not okay. we're not okay. of course, you know -- george floyd, but when you think about the covid response and who this tis proportionately affected. when you think about breonna taylor, when you think about black women who are dying in mortality rates are higher because people don't believe their pain, that's a lot for people to deal with. who when you look at cooper, calling 911 to make a fall call there are is the pain and the rage that is actually justified that we see happening across the country. >> and, you know, do you think that the amy cooper verses, you know, thees bird watcher also named cooper michael cooper in new york city, do you think that's added to the anger? the potential that could have

happened to him, what did happen in minneapolis, is this a compound reaction that we're seeing on the screen beside you? >> of course it is. christian cooper could have been definitely the next hash tag. and so if we missed the interconnectivity between what amy cooper did and what happened in these other cases, then we're missing the forest for the trees. so we can expect that people are going tore express their anger. what we've seen in new york city, i do want to make plain, is something that we're seeing across the nationha on a whole host of issues. and we knew that this was going to happen. there is only but so much that people can take. i dope want to make a few thing clear how i think we can move forward in new york city. one, of course, address the pain that we're feeling. there's something when i was there at barclays. the amount of police presence, before any protesters came, was

problematicca and intimidating. we can't start off the tone of the conversation like that. i also saw some instances of overpolicing where people were harmed that we have to address. but there was something else i saw that i want to address. i saw decisions being made by nonblack power. and i amow so happy to see nonblack allies there. by want to make it cleear, that the voice of this protest and the decisionsof of this protest should be made by the leaders who are most affected by the things that are going on. i want to make sure i get that message out there as. >> thank you for doing that. new york city public advocate, thank you very much. really appreciate you being here andu staying up with us tonigh as we weighed throuade through >> thank you. >> thank you so much. now let's go toi. louisvil kentucky, where nbc news correspondent cal perry is standing by. tell us what's going on in

louisville. >> reporter: hey, joy, the police have managed to keep everybody set up. that's thet store there, you c see the damage to it. if youo can spin around, mark, i'm sorry, you can see this whole street isan gone and thers been a local news crew truck that's been destroyed. i want to talk quickly about brianna taylor because that's why people have come out here. she was 26 years old, killed on march 13th when police officers came into her apartment at 12:30 in the morning. they did not announce themselves, they just came into the apartment. there was a firefight. the boyfriend shot at the police. he thought there was a break-in. now there's a federal justice investigation into white police went into thatin apartment. the person they were looking for had already been detained. she was a medical worker. she was a 26-year-old nurse. she was the people that we count on in this pandemic. and it's what has brought people

on to the streets in the last two nights. the other very important thing about louisville to know is that people areil armed here. there are people with bats here, there are people with guns here on the streets. last night there was seven people shot. so in the middle of the pandemic, in the middle of a riot that was brought on by what seems to be a white police officer murdering an unarmed black man there are was a mass shooting. so louisville, like the rest of the country, is scarred and going through something deeply emotional. and people are still out here in sporadic numbers and policein a letting people have the run of the streets. they're lettingth people damage streets and incars. they're trying to keep people away from the downtown area. there's a local jail there, city jail, and a courthouse. they have cordoned that area off and they'd side streets, they've let people have the run of it. we'll seee if that lasts. i don't expect it will last [ historia[ horns honking ] i don't know

how long it will last. but we seem to have avoided a protest likede last night. >> is there reporting that says a mass shooting and what relation to the protests? do we know if this was somebody who was in opposition -- >> reporter: we don't know. >> we want to make sure that we clarify. we don't know that itth was directly related to the protest, we just know it happened also last night? >> anden we know that the gunfi went into the crowd. it didn't come from the crowd, it wentme into the crowd of protesters. >> into the crowd. >> reporter: they haven't made any arrests innt relation to th shooting the they made three arrests in relation to damage andn protests, but no arrest f the shooting. and that went into the crowd of protesters. >> be safe out there, cal.

i want to show you footage from the city of atlanta today. this is the atlanta police chief, erica shields, and she's out listening to and talking to protesters in hernd city earlie today, including pretty intense one-on-one conversations like this. on you can see her listening to a distraught angry protester and putting her hands on the woman's shoulders trying to reassure her. there was also another exchange that she had today. >> i'm nervous because there's guns everywhere and i have no -- when they're going to put their hands on tme. it doesn't matter what i do because i see my skin, okay. i need you to understand that. i need you do something. you need d to let us know. you need to let the public know. if you have anything to do, you need to know. >> let me tell you something. i'm standing here because what i saw was my people face-to-face with this crowd and everybody's thinking how can we use force? and i'm not having that. i'm not having that.

>> we're here peaceful. >> i you w have a right to be upset, you're scared and you want to yell. and we're going to have everybody do what they needin t do and we're going to have safety. that's my first [ inaudible ]. and i hear you. i hear from some many people cannot sleep, they're terrified, they're worried for their children. [ bleep ]. >> what do you because -- [ bleep ]. >> what do you because - can it help keep me asleep? absolutely, it senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. it's the final days to save $1,000 on the sleep number 360 special edition smart bed, now only $1,799. ends sunday.

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joining us now is shamari stone. he's outside across the street from the white house. what can you tell us about what you're seeing? >> reporter: well, right now we are live here by the white house. and if you come right over here you can see these hundreds of protesters. they're approximately a half a football field away from the white house gate. many of them have signs that read, i can't breathe making reference to george floyd. you can see all of them out here. and if you come with me right over here, you can see that there are secret service officers who have on protective gear and they are pushing the protesters back to make sure they do not cross over this gate and then get close to the white house. many of these protesters are -- tell me they're frustrated, upset over the death of george floyd and many of them say that this is the type of thing that they have been waiting for. because when they think about

castillo and all these other cases, breonna taylor, and others, when they see that they don't have convictions in these cases, many of them tell me that george floyd was the straw, in one words of one woman, that broke the cam aeel's back. >> what are the protesters saying they want donald trump to do differently? because he's very consistent in what he did and consistent in who he is. ask there something they want from the white house or is this just an expression of anger at the white house? >> reporter: well, it's a combination both. you have an expression of anger, but also you have folks out here who want the white house to show leadership. to show sympathy. to understand the issue of race relations, to understand the killing of unarmed black people by law enforcement in america. they feel that president trump is not showing enough leadership, that he's not

sympathetic, that he uses words such as thug and many of the people here are beginning to get unruly. and we're now going to go back to you. >> i want to apologize for that language for our audience in the is all happening in realtime so this is the way it happens. i think we have lost our shot. we'll try to get shamari stone from nbc's affiliate in washington, d.c. thank you so much for being here. let's go back to minneapolis where nbc correspondent morgan chesky is on the ground. it seems a bit more sparse where you are. >> reporter: joy, it certainly is. we are asking ourselves where is the mass of people that departed this area at 8:00 central time? that's when that curfew went into effect. that's when the national guard rolled by in humvees and they deployed that teargas and smoke to try to get these people out of this area.

they succeeded in that, but upon leaving the third precinct which is just a block behind me, they continued down the road and they've made their way across this city. we do know that the fifth precinct has been seeing a swarm of people around there. so as it stand right now, we are continuing to see a stream of people continuing to make their way through this area. fires have been lit within the past hour or two that burn unabated and there's been no sign of police, no sign of national guard. and fire department has not made any effort to come here and try to put any of these flames out at this point in time. when we were standing outside the third precinct building earlier, we were watching a steady stream of people going in and out, walking out with whatever they could carry. unfortunately, it looks like tonight is very similar to the past two nights, although the main difference is we're not seeing at least the crowd concentrated in this area which

kind of became the epicenter of resistance because this is where the third precinct was located. and that is the station where those four officers worked who were fired earlier this week. so right now we're aweighting to see if there's going to be any response of any kind. we know that a swarm of state police showed up very early this morning to establish a wide perimeter around the very area that i'm standing on right now. however, that disappeared whenever that curfew, essentially, went into effect. but we're not seeing much enforcement, if any at all. joy. >> very quickly before i let you go, morgan, has it been possible to establish any relationships between the groups of people that you said that were, you know, are reporting seeing luting or that you're seeing doing anything violent or starting fires and the actual demonstrators in the demonstrators with signs, the people that are protesting directly about george floyd's death? have you been able to -- are these connected groups of people

or are they two separate groups of people? >> reporter: it's tough to say, joy. we know that at least yesterday arrived in minneapolis around 10:00 a.m. and i watched, you know, a large number of people congregate, you know, with signs coming out to send a message against violence, you know, that was, you know, involving police and unarmed black man of course earlier this week. we heard that message being shared throughout the day, but as we've seen time and time again over the past several days here, as soon as night falls, the tone shifts, the crowd shifts, and it's a whole other attitude that comes out. so i think that are there some of those people that were here during the day that come out at night? there certainly could be. but i would say the majority of the people we encounter are not necessarily those who maybe drove in fro out of town with a sign wanting to send a message of support to the family of george floyd and trying to be

heard. and the unfortunate reality is that some people have expressed to me is that they really fear that the devastation you see behind me, the fires that continue to burn, the damage that's inflicted upon this neighborhood will overshadow what they believe is the bigger problem, and that is that four police officers took an unarmed black man to the ground and he died just a few minutes later. joy. >> i can ask you also if just thinking back, take you back to conversations that you had with the demonstrators earlier in the day. if you could take us back to the time he was charged with third degree murder, how did that impact the crowd, the people that you spoke with? >> reporter: in particular i'm remind of a conversation i had with the two black gentlemen who drove in from out of town today. they came here to clean up some of the mess and they organized a

volunteer effort. i was the one when i said chauvin's been taken into custody, charges are coming, it was before he had been charged with third degree murder. i said now that he is at least arrested, how does that change things for you if at all? they said it gave them hope for justice, but it was still far too early. and they said what about the other three officers who have yet to be arrested? and they raised up a very good point in that. a lot of people are still wondering what comes next? this is going to bea i lo a lon ahead. people know it's not going to be immediate, but they want to see some sort of step being taken in the right direction. while it may have taken away the edge of anger for some of those people, there were just as many in the crowd that said even that third degree murder charge placed against chauvin was nothing but a slap on the wrist and it was frankly an insult after they witnessed that eight to nine-minute video and saw

exactly what happened there. joy. >> nbc news correspondent morgan chesky, thank you very much from minneapolis tonight. thanks for staying up for us tonight. appreciate you. meanwhile, protests over the death of george floyd have gotten way under oakland, california, where hundreds of demonstrators have blocked spate 880. jake ward is live in oakland. tell us what you're seeing. >> reporter: joy, the police just about a half block from us [ inaudible ] are pushing us back early, hitting people with teargas like this gentleman here. it's definitely es calated this a lot of people holding up the names of oscar grant who, as you know, on new year's day was killed here in the bay area in 2009. the police department, you know, a lot of strong feelings about them here in this town. a long tradition of it.

earlier tonight, we had protesters actually make their way on to the freeway, close that down. get up on to the bay bridge, parked cars and blocked that off. earlier tear grass was deployed to dissperts crowds there and we're goi we're beginning to feel the effects of the teargas here and they're pushing protesters back with teargas as protesters begin to throw fireworks and other explosive devices. the smell and energy has definitely changed in the last few minutes here, joy. >> and, you know, thank you for bringing up the oscar grant situation. these often are accumulations of longstanding anger and frustration with police departments. and i'll ask you a similar question that i asked morgan. did you sense any change in the vibe after it became clear that

at least one of the four officers who was responsible for the death of george floyd were going to be indicted? that one indictment, did that change the vibe at all earlier today? >> reporter: you know, it's not clear, joy, that -- that there's really much that could have calmed this crowd down. this is a crowd that has, you know, as we've said, a long history of difficulty, anger with the police here in oakland. the police, as you know, are under a federal consent decree, oakland police department has been basically under the supervision of an inspector from the department of justice ever since 2003 when a group of rogue police officers were found to be planting drugs and violating people's civil rights. so i don't know that there's much that could have happened in this case other than to drive anger upward at a time when the economy is in really difficult place, oakland is locked down and under real pressure here

when it comes to coronavirus measures and this long history of apologier. y anger. you put all of that together with the george floyd situation and it obviously was going to get out of control. we're certainly beginning to feel that here tonight, joy. >> jake ward with a lot of really wonderful context for us. very important context. nbc news correspondent jake ward in oakland for us tonight. thank you so much. appreciate you. we've got much more to come tonight. we're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back. we'll be right back. right bac. we'll be right back. "the return of drifting"

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the best seat in the house." . you may have seen this photo yesterday of a restaurant in minneapolis which is a block away from the police station in minneapolis' third district. during the fires and riots and luting last night, the owner put this sign in the window. minority owned hoping the protesters would spare his

restaurant from the destruction. his restaurant was not spared. it caught on fire last night and took on damage. but when the owner of the restaurant walk up this morning to the news that his business had been burned, his reaction was not one of dismay or anger with the protesters. this is what he told his daughter while he was watching the news this morning. quote, let me restaurant burn, justice needs to be served. put those officers in jail. and joining us now is the owner of that minneapolis restaurant and also with him is his 18-year-old daughter who posted her dad's reaction on facebook today. thank you both for being here. where did that reaction come from, even though you had seen your business burnt? >> thank you for having us here. and i want to start with that we are not condoning violence. i grew up in bangladesh and i

came here as a stranger. but for the past 12 years i have been building community to this restaurant and the anticrime and justice movement. the death of george floyd is traumatic for all of us, but we have been in the side of the precinct helping with medics, providing food. as scary, as hard as it is, a biltd buildi building can be rebuilt but a human life cannot. so my daughter, she -- she had over the phone, i was talking to a friend that -- and then she put it on her facebook and it went viral. but this is like i say from my heart. i say it come out from my heart and i believe, like, this is how

we are to make the change being the difference to the world and let people know, you know, some sacrifice have been bad, but this is for a good reason. >> and let me ask you, because at your young age, you're living through a pretty nightmarish time when kids your age are not being able to graduate high school properly because of the covid outbreak when young people of color and people of color in general are suffering more in the covid outbreak, and now -- and now this, this death that young people are having to experience when they shouldn't have to think about death. what -- what made you post what your dad said online and what did your friends think of it? >> well, i woke up this morning angry because, you know, this is my, like, dad's work that just went up in flames. and i've always been for black

lives matter movement and all of that. but, i was angry because this is our only source of income. this is how we sustain ourselves. but then when i heard my dad say that, it brought, like, peace to me. like it calmed me down because it's -- it reminded me that, you know there is what we are here for. we are here to seek justice for the people who have been facing injustices for so long. it's about time that this kind of change starts to happen. if this didn't happen, then we wouldn't have had things like the officer who murdered george floyd being charged. that's history in the making, you know. and it's just all about change right now. and, you know, my friends are all messaging me, giving me -- letting me know i hope you guys are safe, things like that and they're supporting us and all that good stuff. >> well, you're both heroes and

thank you very much for sharing your story with us, taking the time to stay up with us tonight. thank you so much and all the best to your family. >> thank you. >> thank you, joy. >> thank you so much. and joining us now is alessia garza. in 2013, she cofounded black lives matter. she's an important voice against police violence against african americans in this country and what we should be doing to fight against it. this wonderful family that i think have exemplified a core point, a building can be rebuilt and insurance can be called in and it can be okay, but a life cannot be rebuilt. that's such a beautiful sentiment. can you talk a little bit from the activist point of view, even i misspoke earlier when people talk about riots, which this is an uprising and that's what it

is and you understand that it is. how should we be thinking about it and talking about it? >> well, you know, one, i think that it's so important to hear statements of solidarity in that way because it really does contextualize the anger that is spreading across this country. to be very, very clear, what is important for us to be focused on right now is why justice has not been served, not only in this case, but in the case so many black people who have been killed at the hands of police or at the hands of vigilantes. time and time again what we find is that black communities are told to wait and follow the process. but what we don't seem to ever acknowledge is that the rules are rigged against black communities ever receiving justice. there are too many rules that protect law enforcement which they kill extra judicially. there are too many rules that

uphold the rights of law enforcement at the expense of the families who have an empty seat at their dinner table. and, frankly, you know, when we look at what's happening in places like minneapolis, when we look at what's happening -- what's happened in places like aucklan oakland, to many times it takes too long for any accountability to come to fruition. so in the meantime people are told just to wait. and i think what bureyou're see across the country is we cannot wait and we will not wait for our communities to be safe. our communities are in a state of emergency. and the fact of the matter is, it's been too long that we have waited for justice for the families of people like george floyd, for the families of people like oscar gront, fant, e families of so many people that we now know. and at the end of the day it's really a question of political

will. this isn't just a question of letting the process play out. the process itself does not allow for justice to be served, it does not allow for accountability for these families who are losing their loved ones, and it does not allow for black communities to be safe and to live dignified lives. >> you know, i think about, you know -- that is so profound and a lot to take in. but i think about two things. one, the fact that you have these mainly young people out here doing the opposite of what they would need to do to be safe from covid, right? so they're out congregating in very close ranks. and one wonders whether two weeks from now we will hear about hot spots around the country that are then born out of this. that's one piece of it. and the second part is when you look at these crowds, these crowds are very multiracial. and you think about the black lives matter movement and the way that police interacted with it, the tanks, the military

equipment, and even though there have been some, you know, police that have stepped way out of line in the way they've treated these protesters, how different do you think that this winds up looking when we look at it, you know, on our tv screens because this is not a predominantly or, you know, sort of overwhelmingly black group of protesters? >> sure. well, i can just say that, you know, for the last couple of weeks i have been watching white militia show up at state legislators -- legislatures without masks, armed with guns, armed with bulletproof vests demanding their right to get haircuts. meanwhile, you have a multiracial crowd of people who are showing up in the streets and they are saying that they are risking their lives in pursuit of justice. and that is a really important distinction for people to make. i also know that, you know, in

the case of some of the protests that i've seen in places like michigan, you know, we have a president who essentially said that police should stand down. but when it comes to folks who have taken the streets demanding justice and demanding accountability for people like george floyd, the president gets on twitter and literally incites violence. so i think it's important for us to understand that there are risks that people are willing to take in order to move the political needle in this country and to again rgenerate the poli will to advance an agenda of justice. and, at the same time i think it's important for us to distinguish the difference between protests that are here to basically advance demands around law enforcement, around policing, around the sank pity of black lives, and protests that os stens ably aare talking

to reopen the country, but are testing the bounds of what this president and what this administration will allow in relationship to a whole other agenda. so that's one point. i think it's also important just to say that, you know, a lot of the people that i have seen out in the streets and literally a few blocks from my house there's flash grenades, there's tear gas wafting through the air. the risk that people are willing to take in order to demand accountability is also completely preventible in the same way that this pandemic and the impacts of this pandemic were preventible. you know, had we really pushed and said, you know, there can be no other movement besides making sure that this police officer and these police officers that we saw in broad daylight on camera who stood on a man's neck and murdered him, stood on his neck for eight straight minutes,

we cannot wait for justice. leadership would be advancing. and, yet, again we are being told over and over again that we have to wait. and that is something for to us pay attention to. the people who had taking risks right now are doing so for their lives and they're doing so for the lives of our families and our communities. and that is very different than risking your life for a haircut. >> yeah, indeed. cofounder of the black lives matter movement, thank you so much for staying up with us. truly appreciate you. and i want to now bring in congresswoman -- of course, thank you. i want to bring in congresswoman barbara lee who represented the 13th district, which includes much of oakland and alameda county for over 20 years. thank you so much for being with us. hopefully you were able to hear that conversation. the buildup of pain that we are seeing in these communities is not just about one death, it's

about so many. can you just talk a little bit about legislatively as you as a legislator, what are you thinking needs to be done to change this reality? >> sure. first, joy, let me thank you so much for your voice, for having voices on such as alicia on to speak the truth. being black in america shouldn't be a death sentence. this didn't just start, this is 400 years of slavery and all of the issues that we noknow emanad from the middle passage and that's the honest to god's truth. what we have to do now, first of all, my condolences to mr. floyd's family, community, and friends. this is a murder that should never have taken place. secondly, we have to fight and i'm very proud of what the congressional black caucus is doing and will continue to do, members of the judiciary committee fighting for legislation, for more police

accountability and transparency and more for the criminal justice system to become a just system. because no person is above the law. and, joy, you've seen and we've known as an african american for generation particulars police misconduct and brutality and murders have been allowed. and so we have to fight to have reform our laws and for some we have to dismantle these laws. listen, as a mother two of sons, so fa nophenomenal sons and two grandsons, i had these conversations about worrying about being shot in the '70s. this now is 2020 and it's got to stop. enough is enough. we have to work legislatively. but i have to you, what we have to do, the protests in the street and the activism has to continue because that's the only way that members of congress and

elected officials are going to respond. when the country and the people say enough is enough, this is it, no more murders at the hands of law enforcement. >> indeed. and very quickly before we let you go, what do you think of the president's response to all of this? >> well, this -- this president really is not worthy of the office, first of all. and by really announcing that it's okay to shoot, you know, to me, is despicable. he is inciting violence. and i hope that those who are out in the streets protesting remember november and remember we have elections and remember that we must make sure that he is never ever re-elected again. because we've had enough of this. and we have got to turn this country around and we've got to move forward. we cannot go back to normal, and this donald trump in the white house now as, quote, the commander in chief as president of this country has never shown

any leadership. and in this moment, he has taken one side once again and saying that it's okay to shoot people who are out protesting. angry, yes. sad, yes. but exercising what needs to happen in terms of making sure that the voices of people are heard throughout the country. and this -- and he has got to be held accountable himself for a lot of what has taken place under his watch. it's just outrageous. and so we have a pandemic upon a pandemic, and this president has -- has been the leader of this country that has allowed black and brown people to disproportionately die from covid-19 and to also continue to incite the violence that is taking place through unnecessary disregard for black lives. black lives do matter and this president has no idea or no clue

and i don't think he cares about black lives at all. >> california congresswoman barbara lee. thank you so much for speaking with us tonight, staying up with us. >> i can just mention one thing about oakland and my community? >> yes. >> the black panther party many, many years ago understood what police brutality was and really stood down and was criticized in many ways. but i think now we see exactly what this is all about. so this has been years and years and years and generations of police misconduct that, unfortunately, we're going to have to deal with right now in 2020 as we did in the '60s and the '70s. >> indeed. and one will remember reading the history that one of the things that the black panther party advocated was watching the police, keeping an eye on them. >> absolutely. >> and you've seen a 17-year-old girl be the hero in this moment who refused to walk away and watched and made sure that what happened to george floyd didn't happen in secret.

so thank you so much, congresswoman, really appreciate it. >> thank you again, joy. thank you. >> of course. thank you. and our live coverage continues in just a moment. i will see you in a few hours on my show, "am joy." we'll be right back. show, "am" we'll be right back.

good saturday morning, everyone. it is may 30th. i'm kendis gibson. >> i'm lindsey reiser. >> we are on early because of the protests happening in more than two dozen cities across the country. >> from coast to coast, breaking news, protests, clashes, fires and arrests on city streets in outrage over george floyd, but really something more than that, decades of oppression of many folks in this country going on to the streets to protest. he, of course, was a black man who died on memorial day after a police officer