and the discretion is given from prosecution to send those cases over to a grand jury, rather than exercising their own discretion. what it feels like is almost a whack-a-mole sense of every week, we get a new case and a new circumstance where it seems as though we can't be in central park. that we can't have a warrant executed with judicial clarity or with fairness. we can't walk along the street or across the street or get arrested in the same ways as other communities for black and brown communities that are at risk. these are things that have to be addressed at a local level, in my opinion. and i think that's the real solution. but there are real steps that communities can be taking. and the fact that we get an autopsy like this, that flies in the face of what we sawall saw the video is exactly the reason that communities are frustrated and exactly the reason that we have to move this discussion into an action that addresses those problems and starts to

make changes for us. otherwise, the frustration just continues. and even when you fix it in one place, you see it happen in another city and another place. that's why it's a nationwide reaction to this, because these problems are systemic. and i think the solutions can be systemic, too, if local communities are taking action and moving towards making a change and having their voices heard, because that's really what the riots are. a demand to be heard and a demand for action beyond just hearing what's going on and learning about what happened in another state or in another city again and again and again. >> paul henderson, thank you for spending some time with us. it's always great to talk to you. let me just restate the breaking news that we just learned about. an independent autopsy has found that george floyd died of asphyxiation. that is different from the autopsy results that have been

shared with us and we are awaiting a news conference from the lawyers representing the floyd family. during this time of historic protests and violence, we have seen zero leadership from the oval office. instead, donald trump has fanned the flames of unrest and today he's at it again, once again trying to shift the blame to the nation's governors, calling them weak and demanding they start to arrest and track protesters and then jail them for, quote, ten years. that story, next. years. that sto, rynext you doing okay?

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we're back with some breaking news and we're going to dip into a news conference being held right now about this independent autopsy. first, let me tell you what the independent autopsy found. george floyd died not just because of the knee lodged at his neck, but also because of the other police officers who held him down, depriving him of oxygen to his brain and to his lungs. let's listen in. >> charges being brought, with no criminal charges being brought against the officer that did most of that compression. and it just goes to show that no matter how much video you have, there are many obstacles in the criminal justice system in this country, especially when it comes to black people who die while being restrained by white police, unfortunately. and i'm somebody who has

mentioned -- 50 years, i worked with city and state police in new york. and i am very propolice work in general, but there are more than a few rotten apples that come up in the death -- in deaths that occurred during police restraints and that has to be further addressed, and hopefully this will help do that. >> thank you. i know attorney tony ramanucci and attorney stewart and i and attorney storms echo that sentiment and that's what we endeavor to do with this case of george floyd. it is a tipping point case. and the sincere hope is that this case will help change the system and bring needed reform. i have been texted by a new service to ask, what is the recap of our autopsy and it's

simply this. number one. the knee to the neck and the knees to his back, both contributed to him not being able to get breath. and what those officers did, that we see on the video, is the cause of his death. not some underlying, unknown health condition. george floyd was a healthy young man. we see in the video, he was walking, breathing, he was alive. his cause of death medically was mechanical affsphyxiation. the legal determination is

homicide. that is it in a nutshell. the officers killed him based on a knee to his neck for almost nine minutes and two knees on his back, compressing his lungs. the ambulance was his hearse. next question. >> from audra birch, what charges do you want for the additional three officers? >> attorney romanucci will take that question. >> in terms of criminal charges, there is no doubt that those police officers are criminally liable, also. we will leave it up to attorney general ellison to be transparent, to be fair, to review the evidence in the

total totality of the circumstances. but i urge anyone who looks at that video and reviews the entire evidence that not only were constitutional violations abound here, but this was criminal. they knew that they were employing restraints that could or might cause death. and by having that knowledge and by continuing to mount the pressure on his body, restricting his airway and cutting off blood to his brain, they knew that they would cause death. to be culpable of murder or homicide, you only need to know that what you are doing called lead to death. they were trained, supposedly, that those restraints could or might cause death.

they need to be charged criminally. they are criminally liable, because they knew that what they were doing could lead to death. and indeed, we know that it did cause his death. >> reyna s. -- >> thank you, attorney romanucci. and just to be clear, george floyd's family wants first-degree murder for officers shovan and the other officers to be charged to the full extent of the law because george was their blood. imagine someone who is your family and during the last moments oz hiv life on this earth begging for humanity. begging to be treated like a human being. begging to be treated like one of god's children. they want a first-degree murder charge. they want equal justice for

african-americans because black lives matter and george floyd's life mattered. >> rena s. from care 11 news asks, do the doctors believe the information about underlying conditions -- oh, i apologize. rena s. from care 11 news asks, and are the doctors basing the cause of death solely on the video and not the autopsy? >> when looking at the case, the entire investigation, including the autopsy, are very important. the determination of cause and manner of death are based on the circumstances surrounding the death, which does include the video, but also additional findings that were determined at our autopsy.

we do have physical evidence that supports that there was pressure applied to his neck. and it's in this combination with the additional medical information that we have, including examination of all of the other organs that were available to us in making our determination of cause of death. >> and dr. barden, can you speak to the physical abrasions to his head and face and how that contributed to your determinations? >> yes, as dr. wilson said, we take everything we have into consideration. the forensic autopsy starts at the scene. much time and most homicide cases relates to reconstructing the scene. detectives going out and interviewing people, all kinds

of forensic science work, picking up trace evidence. in this instance, the video tells you what the scene is. those multiple videos show pressure that can cause death and his calling out, like eric garner, but also, includeing calling out for his mother, who had been dead for three years. none of that caused a release of the pressure and that is very disturbing. now -- >> abrasions to his head -- >> thank you. there were rough abrasions around the left eye and left cheek and a little bit in the front of the nose and mouth areas that are due, we can see in the video, that are due to the left side of his face being

rubbed against the pavement while the left knee of the officer is squeezing down on the left side of the neck, which would be -- the neck is a small area with many vital organs. arteries, veins, nerves and the windpipe, all of which are compressed with the knee activity as seen in the video. the abrasions on the side of the neck and the nose would also indicate that a component of the interference with breathing could be -- was also some pressures that were placed on the nose and mouth, and these are also very painful kinds of scrape marks. there were also severe scrape marks on the back of his left shoulder, which is part of the

activity that was causing him to rub against the officer's knee as well as the face being on the ground. and those occurred while he was still alive and breathing. >> is that evidence of pressure? >> that is evidence of severe pressure on the face. large areas of scraping abrasions on the face in particular, left side of the face, which is evidence of his face being rubbed severely against the ground. >> what dr. bodden said is also very important for the prior question of the criminal charges, because what was happening on that video is extremely important, because when the brave young man that you're going to hear from tomorrow was trying to attempt life-saving statements to the

police officers or when george floyd was calling out that he can't breathe or for his mother, you can see, at least from one of the angles, the first angle that was released, that officer shovan was readjusting his knee in order to further compress th thate tight area of the neck. that is an expression of knowledge. that taunt of readjusting his knee in order to further compress the airway and hold him down with that sustained pressure is evidence of criminal conduc conduct. >> liz from the "star tribune" asks the doctors if your autopsy found any evidence of heart disease or any underlying conditions? >> dr. wilson?

>> as i've mentioned previously, certain parts of the organ have said retained by the original pathologi pathologist. in the specimens that we have examined, there is no underlying disease of the heart the.the sections of the vessels that we examined were clear of@l sclerosis. the sections that we have obtained we will examine once they can be made available to us. >> thank you for clarifying. >> i would just like to add on in my coronavirus susceptible age group that i wish i had the same coronary arteries that mr. floyd had that we saw at the autops autopsy. >> thank you for putting that in context for us, dr. bodden. >> yamiche at pbs "newshour"

asks, can the doctors determine at this time how long it took mr. floyd to die? >> i counted the video. from the time the video started, which was a few seconds, apparently after mr. floyd was pushed on the ground and the knee put on the neck, about three minutes and 50 seconds between the time he's on the ground and the time he becomes motionless. at a time when that passes by, the civilians who were watching and photographing yelled out that he was dying, that he was lifeless, that he should be permitted to get up, that he's dying, that he's going to be dead, from the moment three

minutes and plus seconds, he was motionless, he had no evidence of breathe iing of struggling a remained that way for another four or five minutes with on hi neck until the ems people arrived and found he had no pulse. he had cardiac arrest. they tried cpr. they tried shock to the heart. nothing worked. he didn't recovered. in my opinion, he was dead after about four, five minutes, he was pronounced dead some time later when he gets to the hospital. a person is alive in this country until a proper physician pronounces him dead. he appears to be dead before the emt people get there certainly. >> it's important to note that

the two emts -- i'm sorry. it's important to note that the two emt members, once they got to the scene they had the device working on an irresponsive male. they concluded in the ambulance -- they performed post-checks several times finding none and delivered one shock by their monitor the patient's condition did not change. he remained unresponsive and pulseless and that's why i said the ambulance that we see arrive on the scene was george wilson -- i'm sorry, the ambulance that we see arrive on

the scene was george floyd's hearse. >> question from andrew tang from the wall street journal. do the medical examiners' results differ in professional opinion from the county medical examiner, or is that information that you don't have yet? >> at this time, we have not had the opportunity to review the actual preliminary report from the medical examiner who performed the autopsy. we have seen accounts from the xlachbt. based on that, yes, our findings do differ. some of what i read from that complaint, there was no evidence of traumatic asphyxia, this is

where we disagree, there's ed of traumatic asphyxia. >> thank you, dr. wilson, for explaining that. next question. oh, doctor -- okay, if you could speak louder with the questions. >> we have five minutes left. >> there are no further questions. >> okay. thank you all. we'll continue to keep you informed as we continue to move forward to get justice for george floyd. thank you and god bless and let's remember to take a breath,

america, let's take a breath for george. let's take a breath for peace. let's take a breath for justice. and let's take a breath to heal our country. thank you. we have been listening to a press conference from the lawyers and the private medical examiners hired by the floyd family to conduct an autopsy that came to a very different conclusion. this private autopsy that was just revealed, revealing that george floyd died of asphyxia and loss of blood flow. importantly, this autopsy also attributing the other police officers holding their weight on top of mr. floyd as part of the cause of death. let me read from some of "the new york times" reporting on this new autopsy. george floyd not just because of

the knee larged at his neck by a minnesota police officer but also because some of the police officers holding him down. not only was the knee on george's neck a cause of his death but so was the weight of the other two police officers on his back who not only prevented blood flow into his brain but also air flow into his brain, quote, said one of the lawyers for mr. floyd. we also have this hour heard from the brother of mr. floyd and joining me now to talk about it all a professor at princeton university. we're also joined by dr. vin gupta, affiliate assistant professor of health metric sciences and evaluation at the university of washington. both msnbc contributors. eddie, i start with you. >> well, it lets me know it's

just simply one bad apple. it's a kind of systemic problem when we think about the actions of police, the actions of prosecutors, the actions of forensic specialists and the like it's a kind of confluence of actors who in some ways participate in a criminal justice system that is not fair for black folk. not just for black folk. it also helps me understand and this should help us understand that the deep distrust, so it took protests to get an arrest. and we still don't have the arrest of the other officers. but even the arrests, right, don't dispel the distrust precisely because of what we have seen and heard today. >> dr. gupta, i want you to help

me a nondoctor understand how two autopsies reach such different conclusions, the first autopsy could not conclude that a asphyxiation was the certain cause of death, it mentioned pre-existing conditions. this autopsy in the last hour asserts that was certainly the cause of death as well as the pressure placed on george floyd by two other officers, is that normal that two autopsies would reach two different conclusions and what do we believe? >> first of all, nicolle, it's not normal and number two, in terms of expectations, i can say this as an intensive care doc who's carried for cardiac arrest patients, unfortunately all too often in my life the expectations of the autopsy align what you just heard.

if you choke somebody for eight minutes, whether they're an olympic swimmer or an 80-year-old they're going to die. they're going to die because of tra traumatic asphyxia. it got squeezed to the point that blood vessels likely burst. that air tube got compromised. maybe george was paralyzed. we don't know. there's a lot more open questions now. clearly it was traumatic and clearly the actions of the other officers, compressing the lungs you can't breathe. you need to be able to move your chest wall in and out to get a nice breath if you're really struggling. they're as complicit as chauvin and this entire autopsy is consistent with first degree murder. if you take away the police officer uniforms that's the conclusion anybody else given the circumstances would arrive at.

>> dr. gupta, thank you for spending some time with us and talking us through what's just another incredibly upsetting turn in this incredibly upsetting story. eddie, you're staying with us. because it's 4:00 in the east. country is on fire. no sign that the spasm over the cry crisis is ebbing any time soon. signs of a common understanding that the current state of affairs between african-american men and women and police must change. places where protests have turned violent. where people and property are in danger. local officials still struggling to sway protesters without violence. derek chauvin who held his knee on george floyd's neck.

the floyd family releasing an independent autopsy in the last hour, finding the incident that led to floyd's death from asphyxia. the weight of other officers pressing their body weight on floyd's back contributed as well to his death. all of that contradicts an autopsy released last week by the county, suggesting that underlying conditions were likely to blame. an attorney for the family saying in a quote, mr. floyd's death was a homicide by officers who taunted him while holding him down for more than eight minutes and the officer who stood by doing nothing was a physical blue shield -- a living symbol of the code of silence. for chauvin to leave his knee on george's neck despite warnings and evidence that his life was in danger, and to continue that course for many minutes, demands a first degree murder charge. those explosive findings come on the heels of a vigil for george floyd, issuing a rallying cry

from george floyd's brother, terrence floyd. he demands action, peace and change. >> my family is a peaceful family. my family is -- yeah, we're upset, but we're not going to be repetition, in every case of police brutality, the same thing has been happening. you have protests. if they don't move, you know why they don't move, it's our stuff. they want us to destroy our stuff. they're not going to move. let's do this another way. let's do this another way.

let's do this another way. let's stop thinking that our lives don't matter. it's a lot of us. it's a lot of us. >> that's right. >> it's a lot of us! we still going to do this peacefully. that's terrence floyd the brother of george floyd taking on the pain of the nation as he grieves the loss of his own brother. powerful words, important and relevant everywhere in this country right now. while we have been through difficult days as a country, we've never been exactly in this spot before. so divided. so many people in so much pain. we're led by a president whose own adviser, counselled, urged him not to address the nation

this weekend because they feared that he would probably make things worse. one trump ally telling me, he advised the trump white house not to let the president address the nation saturday night as dozens of american cities saw their protests turn violent. the washington post captioned it this way -- quote, pain and destruction strangle hopes and dreams of people across the country. people are dying -- alone from a terrible virus or from a knee on the neck in full public view. cities burn, destroying businesses and inflaming divisions. tens of millions are out of work and the president makes it all worse. this is the state of the union as the nation reels from multiple blows, each one arriving with swift and overwhelming forces "the new york times" on trump's role inflaming the flames, while other presidents seek to cool the situation, mr. trump plays with matches. a country on fire and a

president who plays with matches is where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. with us is phil rucker, chairman of the center for afric african-american studies at princeton university, eddie gauld. >> i want to start with you, phil, dana's piece on america ebbs, it's the piece i quoted from, a country that's never been in so much trouble with a president whose own advisers not to speak out. >> yeah, that's right, nicolle. it's an incredibly piece of reporting and writing by my colleague and it speaks to the moment that we're in, for the country, but also for this president who seems unable to unite the country. he has not spoken publicly about

the crises unfolding in cities across the america, including a block or two away from his own executive mansion since saturday. we heard from him today on a conference call with governors where he seemed to be trying to accelerate and inflame some of the tensions by encouraging a much more forceful response by police, encouraging a militarized response in these cities, telling these governors they should throw caution to the wind. to regain control and that could intensify the situation. it's worth pointing out, over the weekend that the president's advisers encouraged him not to given a an address to the country on sunday and today. he has no new actions beyond the words he outered from florida on saturday. but it's also i think a

recognition he may not have the capacity to bring this country together at this moment. >> i think more disturbing, phil, he may not have the will. he was described to me over the weekend as very scared. where was he? what did he do this weekend? did he shelter in place? i worked in the white house on 9/11. >> nicolle, there's a secure bunker in the white house complex that's been used, built after 9/11, it's designed for that sort of an attack and the reporting shows and this was first reported by "the new york times" but confirmed by the washington post and other outlets, on friday night, the first night of those loud and violent protests across the street from the white house, the president went down to that bunker, we don't have full clarity yet as to how much time he spent down there, whose

decision it was to take him down there but he did go into that bunker, it speaks to fear that he felt or those around him felt for his own personal safety as these protests were unfolding just a block away from the white house. >> alexis, a great term from a great reporter out today, it's a real role reversal, joe biden we made his way out on the streets to meet with protesters, while donald trump was in asecured bunker, the peoc, last used by di can, k cheney on 9/11. >> of course, the country's dealing with a national crisis as we're all undergoing a global

pandemic, a unique situation for all of us. joe biden is getting out there to protest, to meet the people where they are, to hear the concerns that they have behind the protests, no matter what shape they're taking that's what missing in this larger conversation, it's focused on the form of protests it's not focus td on the source of the anger behind these protests. joe biden is not only getting out there to meet with people on the ground, he's talking with faith leaders of african-american churches, he's hosting virtual roundtables with mayors who on the front lines in this, at a time there's so much division, whether it's on a race and otherwise, these mayors know intimately what the protesters and the communities are feeling. and joe biden is having these conversations with these folks to inform himself and others in real time about how we can move

forward at a time like this. and to your point and phil's point just now, the president has been at home. he was tweeting, boasting about the fact that he felt safe. i mean, there's so much privilege feeling safe. but to brag about that publicly as if that's something to feel proud, another example the type of leadership the president is exhibiting that joe biden is not even interested in discussing. >> it's an unbelievable vacuum being created by this president. alexis, phil rucker. we have breaking news the governor and mayor announcing a curfew for tonight. joining us now is the governor of new york. governor, i watched the pictures as we talked about our state -- our city, talk about this curfew was necessary and what your concerns are about what might be ahead of us tonight.

>> thank you, nicolle. look, there's no doubt that what the president's trying to do here is turn the attention to the looters rather than the point of the protesters which is genuine outrage, you look at what happened with mr. floyd, you have to be outraged. it's not just mr. floyd in an isolated situation, it's been years and years of the same situation, you can go back to rodney king, eric garner, it's a long list, and they want to make this about looting and criminals rather than the killing. and that's what they're trying to do. in new york, we did have large protests and we do have people who are i think exploiting the protests. and there's no doubt that there are some people who came out and did looting, criminal activity, you have some disrupting organizations that are seizing upon the moment and we want to make sure that order is

maintained and we're putting in place a curfew. mayor and i talked about it, a curfew for tonight at 11:00 and having more police on the streets, double what we had new york city had last night to try and make sure that order is maintained. >> governor, your every move has been watched the world over as you have navigated our country's coronavirus epicenter and i don't think it's an overstatement to worry that all of the people that you fought hard to protect from the first wave, are the ones who are susceptible from a potential second wave, first responders, police, communities of color, how do you protect them not just from the potential of violence from their grief and their rage over the state of relations between black communities, black americans, black new yorkers and police, and protect them from

this deadly virus? >> nicolle, as usual, you ask the right question, i wish i had the answer. we have made such progress in new york, you know we had the worst case in the country, worst case around the globe at one time. highest numbers of death, 800 per day down to the lowest number today in just 50 days and there was only 50 days. i'm afraid that these protests actually can increase the spread of the virus. the only good news is, we're already at the lowest infection rate that we have had -- we did 50,000 tests yesterday in the state. we only had 1,000 positives. so hopefully, the infection rate is down so low so people weren't spreading it but we're starting to reopen new york city a week

from today. if the infection did spread you won't see it for about two weeks. so i just hope it doesn't compound the situation because so many new yorkers worked so hard to get here. so many gave their lives to get here. i hope we didn't endanger it with these protests. >> governor, i spoke to our mutual friend chris christie over the weekend. he said the economic despair that people are feeling in a lot of these cities is contributing to the hopelessness and the rage and the exasperation and the despair with the state all of it, with the inability to protect our citizens from a deadly virus, our inability to protect people's economic security, their life savings in the case of small business owners and our inability to protect black americans in particular from police. what do you have to say to people who are feeling hopeless?

>> look, it's right. it's right. and i said on day one, i stand with the protesters, i believe this is a moment in history, nicolle, where we can actually galvanize and make change. and there are -- there are forces coming together here, let's be honest, it's not a coincidence that's in the middle of a covid crisis. the poor paid the highest price for this covid situation. they were essential workers, their communities had a higher infection rate. they're living in public housing, you can't socially distance on an elevator in public housing. they spent all, they were living paycheck to paycheck and now they're destitute, they paid the highest price, they always pay the highest price and it's just exploded the latent injustice and racism in this. my father did the tale of two

cities speech. 1984, the democratic national convention, it was true then and it's true now and let's make this moment of progressive reform and focus on a real agenda going forward. >> people don't -- the divisions are there, the divisions are being exploited by this president, by the white house, the divisions a lot of people feel are exploited in some corners of the media, but most people don't want to feel divided, what can people do, what are you urging citizens of new york to do today, tonight? >> well, tonight, i'm saying, be smart. you know, we talk about new york tough, part of new york tough is being smart. you want to protest, don't be used in the protest, don't be exploited. don't make it a mask for criminal activity or for extremist organizations. if you're going out, wear a

mask, socially distance. long term, use this moment -- you look in history, nicolle, when did change come? change came when the people insisted on change. when did i pass gun control? right after sandy hook. when did i pass marriage equality? change comes when the people demand it. they're demanding it. finally. let's have a full agenda. let's talk about it, investigation of police abuse. no chokehold. national standard for undue force. let's talk about funding of education and equal funding in education. let's talk about affordable housing, let's talk about a child poverty agenda. let's use the moment

constructively. >> you mentioned your father's speech, today we have a tale of two autopsies. . the family of yorj floyd released the results of private autopsy that showed george floyd based on their autopsy died from a asphyxiation. do you believe that the charges against mr. chauvin are appropriate, should they be stronger and do you believe the officers should be charged? >> look, i'm a former prosecutor. i don't like to second-guess prosecutors because they have facts that others don't have. but if they have other facts they should tell us what the other facts are. because we have a video. and everyone saw the video. there are a number of videos. and yes, i think the other officers should be charged and if they have countervailing evidence they should produce it. because people have the right to

know. >> governor cuomo, thank you for jumping on the phone for us. i hope everyone heeds your advice. >> thank you for what you do and what you do so well. >> thank you, sir. thank you. eddie, i'm coming to you, on the last answer that we just heard from governor cuomo, that if at this point there's any evidence that suggests that what we saw with our own eyes, what we have seen confirmed by a medical autopsy released in the last hour that says george floyd died from asphyxiation not only on his neck but from the body weight from the other officers, what we saw from our own eyes is indeed what happened. your thoughts?

>> well, i think he's right, i wouldn't hold my breath for that evidence. and not to play on the words. look, part -- you know, the governor said he was a former prosecutor. i myself believe we need to understand that this is a web of problematic behavior that defines our criminal justice system. includes the misconduct of police, prosecutorial misconduct and all of those who are complicit in the way our criminal justice system is exercised in the context of black communities. i think it's important for us to keep the pressure on the prosecutor so that we can understand what evidence there is. we have an autopsy that contradicts what the counterexaminer says. commonsense, we saw what the cop's doing. you know, it seems to be that

we're standing on a knife's edge, nicolle, i'm just sitting here trying to keep my emotions intact. i was thinking about the earlier segment, thinking about donald trump using the nixon strategy, appealing to suburban white folk, say these people who are looters are going to come into your neighborhoods, he's going to appeal to the divisions and the hatreds that have defined this country for generations. i'm thinking about the police officers, police officers, nicolle, just the other night, let's bracket the tear gas, let's bracket the rubber bullets, think about how they were treating the protesters. i want to suggest to you that's how they police our communities. almost every encounter, contempt, insult, spite, so part of what we have to do is tell

ourselves the truth to open up the space to do something substantively different. i don't know, that's where i am. >> eddie let's start right now. we got time. what's the truth? i think we saw glimmers of it. donald trump has dealt himself out of the solution, i think that's fair to say to simply assert, not even a debatable fact at this point. his own advisers urged not to address the country as it burned on saturday night. let's put him aside right now. into the void came some voices that were hard to hear but seemed like important ones. talk about the mayor of atlanta coming out before her constituents and saying, i'm a mother and as a mother of black boys, i told them to get home. talk about -- talk about what we

have gained. it seems we have gained some new voices that participate in what you just described as telling the truth. >> i hope so. my son participated in a protest in trenton yesterday. and as he was walking out, he just informed us he was going to do it. and you know, i was like you're going, you is to be careful. i thinking was about the potential violence and covid-19. he had to choose to risk his life to protest brutality. there are some voices out there. a lot of folks which folks were speaking more passionately about what was happening to black american before the obvious lynching of george floyd. what i'm calling for, nicolle, is to understand that for the last 40 years we have been

engaged in systemic engagement of our politics. donald trump is playing in a playbook that you and i know very well -- 2016 isn't that far away, just four years ago, when we did the postmortem on that election, it wasn't just republicans against democrats the partisan divide actually divided along racial lines. that hasn't disappeared because of covid-19. not simply the police, we're deeply divided nation. part of the work that we have to do is tell a story about how we've gotten here and hopefully, the mayor bottoms, the killer mikes, you and others will begin to -- we'll continue to put a spotlight on what we have done so that we can actually open ourselves up to a new future. i was there in san francisco for

governor cuomo's speech. it was 14 years old. i was in the mississippi delegation, two years right in front of him when he gave the speech and i was also there to see what the third way was going to be like with gary hart. i know what has been underneath our politics. i'm rambling. >> no, you're perfect. you're perfect. don't go anywhere. you're stuck with me for the whole hour. i want to come to you, phil rucker, i want to talk about the tweet about the looting starts the shooting starts. i could accept that donald trump was ignorant of the history of that tweet but i also know that your paper, you and robert costa and some of our colleagues have an unbelievable tick-tock inside the last ten days of this

presidency and for me, the sign of how bad is it? it's so bad his own advisers were apaddle by that tweet. the tweet the hallmark of the low point. talk about how that tweet landed even inside his most loyal supporters. >> first of all, nicolle, it landed at about 1:00 in the morning, in the middle of the night, it came from a president who was having trouble sleeping, clearly we know from our reporting over the last several weeks he's been quite anxious about his depressed political state, the fact that he's losing to joe biden in so many of these polls. that's the context for that tweet. if we take him at the word that he didn't know the origin of that comment that was made infamously by the miami police chief back in the 1960s in going

after black people in black neighborhoods, you know, maybe he doesn't know the history. that's not a phrase you hear very often in 2020 in america. but setting that aside, he used it and inflamed tensions. he would not only -- he was stoking some of these racial tensions that were beginning to come into display and of course it only got worse on saturday and sunday including right in front of the white house. we should point out by the way, saturday morning he seemed to double down on that rhetoric when he made the comment about the vicious dogs the secret service would use on protesters who became unruly, that of course is another flashback to our segregation ugly history in our country. and a comment he later defended on camera with reporters. >> alexis, i accept all of the

reporting from phil rucker at face value. the question to you is, what happens next? does this republican party march with lock step with someone who's in miss muscle fiber repeated the most racist sort of lines of attack from our segregationist stain? our history. or, whichever the explanation, he didn't know it, he thought of the same most racist line he could come up with, invoking dogs as being vicious, what does this republican party just marches in lock step with someone who echos the most heinous language of our segregationist past. >> they have made their decision to follow him. and this is part and parcel of the president. when she sent that initial tweet

about george floyd and kaud it a tragic killing, lot of people were surprised by that. because it was a pretty serious and somber tone that quickly deinvolved into negativity and stoking fear. what's interesting to me and something i've been trying to think through, we think about the black lives matter movement in 2016 and the policy platform they brought to the obama administration on things like criminal justice reform, police brutalities, we saw the institution of body cams in part because of what happened in ferguson. also interesting thinking and hearing george floyd's brother, encouraging people to vote. still believing in a system that has failed black folks time and time again. he's encouraging people to participate in this system and put people in office he still hopes will make a change even

though we have been can proven otherwise time and time again. not even to mention the efforts by republicans to suppress our vote, whether through voter suppression tactics or otherwise, that's so fascinating to me and crushing. because we still believe in a system that's failing us at every single turn and we're still relying on that system to help us make changes. i don't know if this will encourage black folks to get out to vote in 2020 or show us we should throw up our hands and stop voting because that's not what's helping us so far. they don't like we protest, they don't like when we bring new policy platforms. it feels like there's no options left to move forward.

what we feel we can do to actually gain and earn power and respect in this country. >> optimism is not mandatory, just telling the truth and you have all done that. phil lucker, i have to say, i read the washington post last night online with my jaw on the floor, your reporting on the president, dan's piece on where we are as a country, the reporting on the protests around the country, an unbelievable body of work today by your paper. thank you for coming and sharing some of >> it thank you, nicolle when we come back -- it's been more than three years since donald trump warned about the looming american carnage in our cities, well, now it's here. right outside his door. new reporting today as we have been discussing shows he's calling for more of it. joe biden emerging to try and calm a wounded nation, meeting with community leaders and mayors while the president stood

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the washington post -- first, these are protests on the streets of new york city, we just spoke to governor cuomo about what he and the mayor have agreed to which is a curfew tonight. those look like entirely peaceful protests on the streets of new york. getting back to politics, as we have been talking about the washington posts and protests across the washington avenue, the american carnage that donald trump in his inaugural address is on.

instead of making any effort to quell this carnage, instead of calming a hurting nation, instead of trying president demanded authorities get tougher, multiple outlets reporting about trump's call today just a few hours ago with the nation's governors. "the new york times," mr. trump told the governors you have to dominate and said if they failed to take a strong hand the protesters were, quote, going to run over you, you're going look like a bunch of jerks, end quote. in blunt reremarks rarely heard from an american president, he prodded the chief executives no to to be too careful. quote, you have to do retribution, end quote. eddie glaude and alexis are back. the president sounding like i don't know what on this call. sounding like -- not sounding like a president, not sounding like a leader.

as we discussed over the last hour, just a contrast from a grieving brother terrence floyd, calling on people to work within the system, to go vote, while donald trump tells governors to treat a protester throwing a rock the some way they would treat someone who was shooting a gun. >> we know donald trump has authoritarian tendencies to be generous. we know that he has not governed for the entire nation. he's only governed in a light of small percentage of the country and what we're seeing over the course of this crisis that we're currently in is that it's not only in terms of a political calculus, that donald trump simply doesn't care about all of the country. he doesn't have the capacity to

emphathize. it's evident that certain populations don't come into his view, a sense of moral concern for them. and so in some ways he's a reflection of an exaggerated sense of policy orientation, he ignores us like certain policy positions ignore us, if that makes sense to you. nicolle, i don't want to hear from him. i don't want to hear from him. i don't think he'll help at all. >> well, you know, this is where eddie and we heard the mayor bottoms of atlanta say, he shouldn't say anything. i know from my own conversations that trump's allies in the republican party didn't want to hear from him on saturday night as many american cities burn. there's some agreement across the partisan divide. >> yeah, i mean, after the

coronavirus and he started doing these daily briefings, his allies saw that, you know, president trump at the podium is detrimental to himself. president trump on twitter is good for his him usually until something like this and he can't control himself and what he says. what's interesting with this call with governors today, we hear no no uncertain times not only how he feels about the situation going on the hierarchy that he believes exists among governors, protesters, thugs as he calls them, the people that don't look like him, we see the way in he turns so many people into other. what's alarming now, he's sending these ominous tweets about shooting looters and telling governors they look weak. i mean, that doesn't make any sense. the only point is to incite more

violen violen violence against people who he thinks look nothing like him and working against him because they're exercising their first amendment right. that's what's disheartening and alarming in this moment. now it's turning into inciting violence against those people. no uncertain terms about that. >> you know, you look at the way he wanted the pandemic handled by the governors, testing not for me that's for you. tracing, not for me that's for you. making decisions about opening up, you do that. now, the same sort of direction and you're right, it's not hands off, he's telling them exactly how the protests and the demonstrations which we should say, again and again and again, are largely peaceful, are

largely an opportunity for people to go out there and try to understand a way forward -- i mean, i can't see these images -- images of police officers kneeling along sidside protesters in cities. that's the way through this. what do you think of all of this being put on the nation's governors right now. >> there's an unbearable weight that's placed on country right now, placed on black folks and governors who are not only being told by the president that they need to be more forceful against our own constituents and they're being viewed as weak, let's not forget, he's been recently threatening withholding federal funding to states over the coronavirus. now, americans are dying and

he's encouraging governors to take more forceful action against those americans because of politics. this is a big issue and i feel like the governors are, you know, i talked to governor whitmer and he she said to me that when she talks about the president publicly she has to censor herself because she's afraid of losing that federal assistance. he's encouraging the governors to be more forceful in the way they're handling their constituents. also we need new leadership at every level for people to stand up and say, that's not the way we handle things. >> thank you both for spending so much of the hour with us. we're grateful to hear from both

of you after the break -- a tale of two leaders. one, hiding behind his twitter feed. the other, on the ground with the grieving and the angry. the two choices before the nation, next. at leaf blowers.

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governor andrew cuomo who has issued, he and along with the mayor have instituted a curfew of 11:00 p.m. tonight. as the country enters its -- tonight, i think will be the seventh night of demonstrations over the death of george floyd. as the country grapples with all of this shg, the president is largely hold up in the peoc, a bunker, in the basement of the white house, at least once, twice, at least based on reports. joe biden is getting out a bit. getting out, talking to protesters, making sure he's a part of the conversation about this moment as the nation searches for a way to begin to heal. the former vice president making multiple appearances in the last 24 hours. yesterday, joe biden visited a site in wilmington, delaware.

this morning he spoke with african-american community leaders. just a little while ago, he held a virtual roundtable with several mayors. quote, what a role reversal after spending two months in the basement while trump dominated covid-19 coverage, biden takes center stage amid race protests while potus relinquishes head of state. michael steele, you've had some tweets in the last 40 hours that have stopped me in my tracks. what's on your mind, my friend? >> a lot. a lot. as a black man having watched this video, the murder of mr. floyd, and thinking of my own sons and literally crying in

that moment, those tears became one of anger at the response, at the lack of response, and i think the country right now is sort of bound up in all of those emotions at once. and they're looking for clarity, we're looking for clarity. we can't separate ourselves, these folks over here has this issue, that's their problem, that seems to be the way the president wants to approach it. whether it's blaming the governors because they haven't been as aggressive as he would be and i would dare say he wouldn't be that aggressive because the circumstances don't call for it. the circumstances call for something else. and i think what you have seen in joe biden is that something else. he doesn't have the benefit of the office, he can't command the bully pulpit the way donald trump can. i think the american people, nicolle, are rationalizing and

understanding finally exactly what they have in the man in the office. that the word empathy and trump don't go together in the same sentence. the expectations have been lowered which creates an opportunity. >> i want to hear more about, i think, what you're hinting at and for you to say so plainly, i think donald trump has succeeded in questioning what we see with our own eyes. what we saw with our own eyes with was the murder of george floyd under the knee of a white police officer. why don't we say what we see anymore? donald trump has succeeded in making us doubt what we see with our eyes and hear with our ear. >> reporter: i'm so glad you asked that question. the answer is that for some

reason this's still this expectation that donald trump in a moment like this is going to respond like barack obama or george bush or bill clinton or jimmy carter or some other president, that expectation that we have expectations we have t you know, a national crisis, whether it's covid 19 or now the racial tensions that have arisen out of the murder of george floyd, that the president is going to step into that and calm and the fears and the concerns. he's going to support those on the ground who are trying to mitigate against the rioting and the damage that is being done there. you have a president who retreats to his bunkers out of fear of what, i don't know. he doesn't step into that leadership. he repels from it. yet we expect him to behave differently. the president has shown us who he is. he has told us over and over again what he believes. he doesn't believe in the ideals

of this country. that was expressed in charlottesville. why do you think you're going get a different narrative today? he watched a young white woman run over by a nazi-loving, you know, fascist card-carrying idiot and said, there are good people on both sides and looks at the death of a black man on the street, under the knee of a white officer, and he calms those who cry out against that pain, against that event he calls them thugs. you tell me what different narrative you're going to get. you're not getting a different narrative. the man is who he is in the white house. to the point that so many are making now, it's going to be up to them to see themselves reflected in that or not.

>> i'm going put you on the spot because i feel on the spot. what role do former republicans have in just, i mean, everything you've said. as clear as day. you're right. it's the moment that most recognizable and his reaction to charlottesville. seeing good people on both sides. where are the people with kids? where are the people who worry about the safety of their own kids. of your kids. i thought one of the most searing public pronouncements of the weekend was the mayor of atlanta saying she told her kids to get home. eddy talking about worrying about his son's safety and you talked about worrying about your kids. where are the other human beings that used to call themselves republicans? >> i don't know. i can't rely on that.

that calgary is not coming. that calgary is not coming. we're on our own out here, folks. we got to band our arms together and strip the labels away. strap the bs off our backs and we have to look each other in the eye and go this ain't us or this is us and be reck sized with that. to save america from the fate of racism and the like, that's not happening. i've given up waiting for the folks to show up. they're not. they weren't there when i was chairman. they weren't there when ken was chairman and tried to move the needle in the black community.

they weren't there for ed gillespie when he did the same. to expect something different, that's not happening. i'm listening to the likes of others going after black leadership and calling what it is what we see in front of us. the racism that has existed right now in front of our eyes and somehow, as black people, we're supposed to ignore if we're republicans. bull on that! that's not happening. i'm not expecting these folks to come charging to save me and mine. or you and ours. you have to do that. we have to do that. those protesters on the street all of us together have to do that. that's how it changes. we have to stop pretending and thinking someone else is going to solve this problem. >> sam stein, take the baton from our friend. >>well, it's impossible to follow that.

michael actually talked about this and, you know, how it impacted his own senate race in 2006. he speaks from experience i will never know. i don't have anything more insightful to offer. i will note this, you know, i couldn't agree more that anyone who is expecting trump to fill some sort of presidential void should probably not hold their breath at this juncture. we know what we're getting. the question i've had, i've been trying to explore it if he's thinking of trying to make a moderation or tonal shift orr broaden his scopes. this is is a guy who lived with and pursued the politics since he entered the political route. he has kept to a safe space media ecosystem never challenging himself to talk to different audiences. this is a situation that calls for reaching out to activists, protesters, even. instead he had a phone call with

governors where he chose to berate them for being weak and not arresting enough people. it's clear he doesn't have the appetite to move the needle in another direction that what he has done so far which is agree sense and resentment politics is in his dna and what he's going to pursue going forward. i think everyone who has any expectations otherwise is pretty foolish at this juncture. >> sam, it's a perfect place to stop. it's in his dna. as michael steele points out, the question in november is it in ours? in all of ours? >> yes. >> yes. >> sam stein and michael steele, never enough of you two. please come back. i could have talked to you guys for another hour. that does it for our hours. our coverage continues with the amazing katie towur after a qui break. amazing katie towur after a quik break. come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card.

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i'm an associate here at amazon. step onto the blue line, sir. this device is giving us an accurate temperature check. you're good to go. i have to take care of my coworkers. that's how i am. i have a son, and he said, "one day i'm gonna be like you, i'm gonna help people." you're good to go, ma'am. i hope so. this is my passion. if i can take of everyone who is sick out there, i would do it in a heartbeat.

i'm a black woman in america. i'm here to fight for our injustice. our peace >> i'm not a fan of rioting and looting but i understand it. >> we need to have our voice heard. we've done the peaceful. the peaceful hasn't worked for