robinson. historian and author of "the soul of america" and rogers professipr professor of the presidency at vanderbilt university, jon meacham. he is an nbc news and msnbc contributor. along with willie and me, joe is off today, we have a lot to get to this morning. in a moment, we'll get to all the moves by president trump yesterday. his combative call with the nation's governors about the protests across the country. his threat to deploy the u.s. military to suppress the demonstrations. and what can really only be described as a manufactured, awkward photo-op in front of a boarded up church. we'll talk about that, what the president did and didn't do, and if he's ever held a bible before. also, joe biden, yesterday, was inside a church, listening to people. we'll get to all of that in just a moment. we begin with the protests against police brutality that continue to rage across the

country. we saw many peaceful demonstrations during the day. once again divulge into chaos, as the day wore on into night. for example, new york city went from this early yesterday eveni evening -- >> i promise you, all right? have a good day. i love you. >> love you, too, brother. >> that's right. >> -- to this, just a few hours later. there was widespread looting, even before the 11:00 p.m. curfew set in. the iconic macy's in herald square was targeted, along with several luxury shops on madison avenue. police report more than 200 arrests. tonight's curfew has been moved up three hours to 8:00 p.m.prot turned to chaos after being pelted with rocks and bottles. police responded with pepper spray and flash bangs.

there were also some touching moments at the vigil for george floyd in minneapolis yesterday. we saw the police chief kneeling at a memorial. we also heard from floyd's brother, who despite being overcome with grief, urged those who want to protest to please do so peacefully. >> let's switch it up, y'all. let's switch it up. >> amen. >> do this peacefully. please. i know he would not want y'all to be doing this. and i'm not saying that people here, but whoever is doing it, relax. >> gene robinson, what we're seeing across the country is sort of a collision of a lot of different factors. obviously, no excuses for the crime, but there is a lot happening at one time for people who are left with very little hope, with a lot of time, with

fear of getting ill, with anger at the system and how the system has not really been protective of them. it's a bad mix across the country, yet this president, he comes forward with kind of an awkward show of strength. i put that in quotes. where do you think this leads? >> well, you know, it was a moment when a president could have at least tried to calm the waters, could have tried to bring people together around the issue of police reform, around the issue of police violence. a president could have done that. this president did not do that and could not have dope thne th. that's who donald trump is.

he did, perhaps, the worst possible thing he could have done, and he, rather than pour soothing oil on the troubled waters, he lit a match and poured gasoline into the flames. with this attitude, these threats to use the u.s. military in some large-scale way against demonstrators. to top it off, the way lafayette square was cleared -- or the street behind lafayette was actually cleared of peaceful protesters, who, by all accounts, were doing absolutely nothing but exercising their constitutional rights. no violence, no nothing.

for this photo-op stunt, to have those demonstrators cleared out of the way by mounted police with flash bangs and rubber bullets and tear gas was just an appalling spectacle, and something i never thought i would see in the united states of america. a leader exercising illegitimate, raw power in that way, in order to have a photo-op in front of a boarded up church. it was outrageous and infuriating. >> let's walk through exactly what happened last night, if you're just waking up. this is how the scene played out at the white house yesterday. hundreds of protesters had been gathered peacefully in lafayette park, just outside the white house, chanting and holding signs. around 6:10 p.m., eastern time, attorney general willian barr was spotted walking through the park, surveying the scene with a security detail. 6:15, the president tweeted he

would be making preef remae inin the rose garden about the nationwide response to the protest. 6:35, police fired flash bang shells and mounted officers began to push protesters back in the park. here's how msnbc correspondent garrett haake described what was taking place. >> reporter: mounted police have been coming down the street. you're going to see them in the frame now, using flash pang ba front of them and mounted police to clear what has been an entirely peaceful protest. not 90%, not 99%, but 100% peaceful protests here today. people throwing -- there was no throwing of water bottles. there was no throwing of objects. short time ago, mounted police officers have been clearing the street. >> msnbc's garrett haake reporting there last night. at 6:43 p.m., the president walked out into the rose garden and delivered remarks for about seven minutes, taking no

questions. we'll have more on what he said in a moment. about 15 minutes later, president trump, along with several senior members of his administration, left the white house, and with that park cleared, walked to st. john's episcopal church. there, the president stopped briefly and, as mika said, held up a bible. when a reporter asked if it was his bible, he replied, it is a bible. he made brief remarks, calling the united states the greatest country in the world, before walking back to the white house. when asked whether lafayette park was cleared of protesters inaccommodate president trump's visit to the church, the white house released a statement. it reads in part, the perimeter was expanded to help enforce the 7:00 p.m. curfew in the same area where rioters attempted to burn down one of our nation's most historic churches the night before. jonathan lemire, you cover this white house very closely. we all agree it is a disgrace that st. john's church was

attempted to be burned down two nights ago. it was not, thank god. let's talk about why the president did this. there's been a lot of reporting, including from people i talked to, that said the president did not like the story out there, that he was in a bunker rage tweeting, while other leaders were out in the streets addressing these protesters and talking about their concerns. how did this entire evening come about from the white house? >> willie, you hit on part of it there. let's back up a few more steps here. the protests grew violent and sort of out of hand on friday night at lafayette park across from the white house. that was the moment when the secret service was sort of unprepared, in some ways, for the sheer size and scope of these protests, and out of concern, rushed the president to the underground bunker at the white house. one normally reserved for use during terrorist attacks. when cheney was taken during september 11th. he traveled to florida for the

rocket launch there, but otherwise, trump has been holed up in the white house. we didn't see him mes saturday most of sunday. the plan was hatched yesterday. most of them around him were upset about the fire. the president, of course, is keeping an eye on his poll numbers with evangelicals, a group he won handily in 2016. it's slipped during the coronavirus pandemic. the night before, more fires at lafayette park, the image of the white house going dark at 11:00 p.m. it often goes dark at 11:00 p.m. for security reasons. but it was the shadows and the contrast between the white house and the lafayette park. in a teleconference call with governors, he was urging them to use the national guard, saying they looked weak, fighting with democratic governors on the call, telling them they needed to be tough, swash, and dominate the streets.

put the protesters in jail for five, ten years, whenever it took. of course, we spoke in the rose garden yesterday, announced he would, if needed, send american soldiers to american cities to keep them safe, in his words. an extraordinary development, extraordinary declaration that he would make. as he is doing that, the split screen that captivated a nation, as he is talking from the rose garden, you could hear the tear gas canister explosions behind him. you could hear the park being cleared, all for a photo-op, as he then strode across the park, posed awkwardly with a bible, all with members of his cabinet, all of whom, at a time of racial unrest, all of them were white. >> so many different factors here. so much is going on. it is really worth, though, taking a pause and looking at this moment, as pretty symbolic for president trump and this presidency. the way they man handled with aggressive tactics, pushed

people out of the way, were very rough with them, just so that this president could have his photo-op. there has been a narrative. he's been afraid to lead. there has been a narrative that he's withdrawn from everything because he doesn't know how to press forward and work on multiple levels. express empathy while also show strength. he is incapable of doing that. he has showed that through one of the worst crises this country has seen in decades with the coronavirus and now these protests. that leads to an inability to do the job. when you're afraid, you're up in emotion mind, and you can't make decisions. this decision was so -- service much a small, not-thought-out plan, to try and make some sort of symbolic overture to america. by all accounts, he was being widely mocked in the media and

among those who are watching this president closely because it was so feckless. if faith leaders expressed their outrage over president trump using the church for the photo-op. he never said anything. he never prayed, never connected with people. he didn't use the church for what it is for. the right reverend, marian buddy, spoke out with brian williams last night on "the 11th hour." >> come to offer words of solice, healing, resolve, bind the wounds of the nation. that would have been an appropriate use of the sacred symbol of walking across the park to the church. he did none of those things. in fact, he used the church, and he used the bible, in some ways, as symbols to demonstrate or to symbolize american military power. he was using our church as a

back dr backdrop, and the bible as a prop in ways that i found to be deeply offensive. >> it was incredibly offensive. it might have been slightly humorous if it wasn't so sad, to see the effort. budde also told the "new york times," he did not mention george floyd. he did not mention the agony of people who have been subjected to this kind of horrific expression of racism and white supremacy for hundreds of years. no knowledge of that, no empathy. we need a president who can use fi unify us and heal. he's done the opposite of that, and we're left to pick up the pieces. she told the "washington post," everything he has said and done is to inflame violence. we need moral leadership, and he's done everything to divide us. prominent priest father martin tweeted, let me be clear, this

is revolting. wow. the bible is not a prop. a church is not a photo-op. religion is not a political tool. god is not your plaything. by the way, look at the president holding the bible upside down. are you kidding me? you know, during the campaign, joe and i went to see him, and he threw us a bible. literally threw joe a bible across his desk. we looked at it, and it had never been opened. he said his mother dpgave it to him. it had never been opened. he was quite mocking of the whole thing. so here we are, once again, trump with a bible. probably never opened that. can be pretty sure, actually. while matt viser, political reporter for the "washington post" tweeted, carrying the bible and posing with it was strange. carrying it and not reading a

scripture or offering a prayer made it all the stranger. and made it all the clearer that the bible was not for reference, it was a prop. jon meacham, your thoughts? >> incredibly serious american moment. over the last three or four years, we've said that a lot. even before that, it's in the natural human tendency to see problems and moments as uniquely oppressive, which is a phrase that arthur schlesinger, the late historian, used to use. this is as real as it gets, it seems to me. the president is drawing on the vernacular of authoritarianism. he is verging ever closer to violating in a permanent and l deletarious way the separation of powers and the fundamental

idea of divided sovereignty in america. we have focused, rightly, on the walk to st. john's and the oddity of that silent photo-op, where you could not hear what he was saying. there are some small mercies. but what he said in the rose garden, and how the path was cleared, are in many ways, more important. he is ever closer to expanding and deploying, projecting american military force domestically because he can't address the underlying concerns, has no interest, apparently, in addressing the underlying concerns that have led to a moment of extraordinary domestic unease. the most -- the most unrest in half a century. half a century. we're only -- we're not quite 250 years old as a republic.

if you think this is hyperbole, if you're a supporter of the president's and you think that all of us are always looking for any reason at all to criticize the president, this is not that. this is a data-driven point. the president of the united states is verging toward the means and -- the ways and means of dictatorial power. democracy is as fragile a thing as it gets. james madison said -- madison has been on my mind because st. john's was finished in 1815. dolly madison went there. it's part of the american power and virtue, in many ways. power in a good sense. the presidents go there on inauguration days to pray.

franklin roosevelt went to his knees march 4th, 1933, and prayed in that church, at a time -- the last time we had this many people out of work. the last time there was this lack of confidence. but what we have to do here is focus as strongly and intently as possible on what makes us different. what makes us different is a rule of law and a capacity to address underlying concerns. the president has no interest in that. the rest of us have to be. >> we're getting into jon meacham territory when we talk about the 1807 insurrection act signed by thomas jefferson. the president, the white house mentioned that yesterday. in his remarks from the rose garden, as well, he threatened to deploy the u.s. military to suppress the demonstrations, which he called acts of domestic terror. >> i am your president of law and order and an ally of all

peaceful protesters. but in recent days, our nation has been gripped by professional anarchists, violent mobs, arsonists, looters, criminals, rioters, antifa, and others. these are not acts of peaceful protest. these are acts of domestic terror. the destruction of innocent life and the spilling of innocent blood is an offense to humanity and a crime against god. that is why i am taking immediate presidential action to stop the violence and restore security and safety in america. i am mobilizing all available federal resources, civilian and military, to stop the rioting and looting, to end the destruction and arson, and to protect the rights of law-abiding americans. i have strongly recommended to every governor to deploy the

national guard in sufficient numbers, that we dominate the streets. mayors and governors must establish an overwhelming law enforcement presence until the violence has been quelled. if a city or state refuses to take the actions that are necessary to defend the life and property of their residents, then i will deploy the united states military and quickly solve the problem for them. >> in order to operate the military inside the united states, president trump, as i said, would have to invoke the 213-year-old insurrection act, which was last used during the 1992 rodney king riots in los angeles. gene robinson, the president is talking there about the rioters, about the looters that we saw out again in new york city. but the distinction we have to make is that he used -- his police used tear gas, flash

bangs, against peaceful protesters in lafayette park last night. they were not rioters or looters. he cleared the park so he could walk and stand in front of the church a couple of seconds. i'm struck, listening to the president's remarks, listening to his tweet, how he can barely pay lip service to what the protests are about. not the rioting, not the looting, which are terrible, but what the protests are about, the origins of this. why people are so upset, not just about the death of george floyd, but about generations of deaths like his. the president does not address that. he wants to go to the law and order piece of it. everyone wants the streets under control so businesses and small business openers aren't being beat up in public and having things stolen from their storefronts, but he cannot address the underlying problem, perhaps because he doesn't understand it. >> he doesn't understand it. he's not interested in understanding it. i mean, you know, this just in, donald trump is a liar. he said in his remarks, "i'm an

ally of all peaceful protesters," as he had peaceful protesters attacked with flash bangs and tear gas and rubber bullets. we arrived at this crisis moment because of the long succession of police killings of african-americans, that people finally got fed up with it and said, "no more." you know, governments derive their powers from the consent of the governed. and consent is withdrawn for that, from not just african-americans protesting, but if you look at the protest crowds, they are a remarkably diverse in every imaginable way. people just poured out to say,

"enough." so, of course, we becry any violence, but you have to understand that this moment is real. that this crisis is real. and that we as a nation need to do something about this now. time is up. we are deeply unfortunate to have the worst possible president at this moment. because he is not capable of that sort of empathy. he is not capable of feeling anyone else's pain except his own. and so the result is the display we saw yesterday. so, you know, the 1807 ins insurrection act, well, if george h. w. bush used it during the l.a. riots, and in the hands

of george h. w bus. bush, it wa okay. it was okay because he understands the idea of america, in a way that president trump does not. so in the hands of donald trump, this is extremely dangerous. and i, like jon meacham, have always shied away from hyperbole about, you know, dictatorial rule and whether american democracy -- always believed we'd get past this, we'd get over this. we are stronger and more resilient. there are powerful tools in the hands of any president. other presidents have not used them because they have known that it was beyond the pale to do so. donald trump doesn't know that, doesn't care about that. so i am more worried than i have

ever been about the future of this democracy. >> i can completely understand that. by the way, it doesn't end there. it doesn't end with protesters being run down in d.c. so the president can use the church and a bible nearby the white house, a church, as a prop. but then there was the call with the governors, which was just off the hook. we'll get to that in just a moment. let's go to where this all began. joining us from minneapolis, nnc news correspondent gabe gutierrez. how did minneapolis do overnight? >> reporter: hi there, mika. there were peaceful protests overnight in the twin cities. several dozen arrests at the state capitol, but no violence, thankfully. that continues what we've seen the last several days. no violence here. of course, the worst of it was last week. i want to show you where i am. this is the site of where george floyd died.

it has been turn sboed into a growing makeshift memorial, as you can see behind me. yesterday, george's brother, terrence, came here for the first time, visiting the site where his brother died and took his last breath. it was a very emotional scene. he made that impassioned call for peaceful protests and an end to the violence that you talked about a little earlier. now, as all this was playing out, mika, two separate autopsies were released yesterday. that is adding to some debate about the cause and manner of death. first -- actually, second, the h hennepin county examiner said there were intoxicants in floyd's system. hours earlier, a privately funded autopsy by medical examiners hired by the floyd family, it had found that the

manner of death was homicide, but there were no underlying health conditions. the floyd family, attorneys for the floyd family, said any toxicants in his system was irrelevant to this case. moving forward, the attorney general, keith ellison, is going to take the lead on the case. protesters here continue to demand for charges for the other officers involved in this case. mika, we also learned that a public memorial has been scheduled here for thursday, as well as other memorials in north carolina, where floyd was born, and also in houston, where he grew up. those are scheduled to happen over the next several days. mika? >> nbc's gabe gutierrez. thank you very much for your report. still ahead on "morning joe," two of the governors consistently holding the white house to account, illinois's jb pritzker and michigan's gretchen whitmer. we'll get their reaction to the call that the fwov knogovernors

yesterday with the president. plus, washington, d.c.'s mayor muriel bowser on yesterday's events. from atlanta, mayor keisha bottoms who has shown remarkable leadership during all of this. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. the united states postal service is here to deliver your mail and packages and the peace of mind of knowing that essentials like prescriptions are on their way. every day, all across america, we deliver for you. and we always will.

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forming vice president joe biden spent monday listening to community leaders and the nation's mayors' concerns about the deep racial divide happening with the country. yesterday, biden attended a two-hour meeting with wilmington faith and community leaders inside a bethel ame church, to listen to their concerns and what he will do to heal the broken divide. the former vice president later gathered the mayors of atlanta, chicago, los angeles, and st. paul, minnesota, to praise their response to the recent protests, as well as the discuss how the country can start easing decades long tensions between the police

and minority communities. >> invoke the full weight of our history though, how black lives have been devalued by a society. it is not only intolerable, but people are angry. i'm sure you guys are, too. i'm angry. i know. the fact is, we need that anger. we need that to compel us to move forward. it helps us push through this pain and reach the other side, to hopefully greater progress, equality, and inclusion, and opportunity in our country. we are also seeing a justifiable public outrage, and protests turning to needless acts of destruction across cities in the country. we all agree the act of protesting should never be overshadowed by the reason we're protesting. >> biden also commented on the frustration and anger being expressed across the country during a virtual fundraiser on monday, telling supporters,

kwoe"i can't breathe. i can't breathe. the whole nation is having trouble breathing." peop "people are angry. i'm angry. we need the anger to compel us to move forward, to help us push through this pain and reach the other side, to a greater progress of equality, inclusion, and opportunity." jon meacham, presidents turn to prayer and open discourse to help approach problems that are multi-faceted. often, two things can be true at the same time. the anger can be fair and real, but the crime can be wrong. it goes from there. and joe biden is showing that. what we're seeing with president trump is sort of a simple-minded approach to this. there is one facet, strength, military. there's no discourse about the much more complicated things that are still gripping this country. >> do we want a president who

values reason and debate and appreciates complexity, understands the tragedy of history, which as vice president biden said, acknowledging the pain is the first step toward possibly moving beyond it. it is not a guarantee we'll ever move beyond it, but there's nothing about the human experience that suggests ignoring the underlying causes, the systemic causes, the 400-year legacy of what's been called the american dilemma. we have two original sins in this country. african-american salavery and te removal of native americans. we are all, white folks like me, people who look like me, are complicit in that. there is no -- i don't think there is any argument about that. it is a reality. even the best intentioned of

people, people who are comfortable with power, who exercised power, have gotten horrible things wrong -- things horribly wrong. franklin roosevelt helped save democracy and capitalism, and intoured americans of japanese decent. any number of people. lyndon johnson comes from a segregated state. it is just -- history is complicated. the test here is not, is a president going to be perfect. the test, as you elude to, is will you acknowledge reality as it exists? because without acknowledging reality as it exists, there is no hope whatever of improving on that reality. and you're exactly right, president trump sees this as a binary question. he was not talking to the whole country yesterday. he was talking to his passionate

supporters. joe biden is about the power and tradition of reason. he may be wrong on some things, but he's using data. he's using what we would want someone leading us to do. president trump is deploying passion. >> gene robinson, in many ways, joe biden is running a parallel presidency. he's behaving in the way he believes a president should behave. he is modeling that behavior. when he goes inside a church and sits and listens, and at the end, takes a knee for a photograph, while president trump walks through a square that's been cleared by police of peaceful protesters and briefly stands in front of a church, holding up a bible that he says was not his but was a bible. and when vice president biden meets with the mayors, that's what a president would be doing, sitting and having a conversation with the mayors of these cities that have been hit so hard, and trying to understand the root of the problem and how to get better.

you see joe biden modeling, effectively, presidential behavior. >> that's absolutely right. that is what a president should be doing. a president should be trying to get his arms and his mind around the root cause of the problem. then trying to come up with a plan for addressing it. because, as i said, these killings keep happening. that can't go on this way. people are fed up with that. so we need to address it in a larger and more sustained and comprehensive way. that's something we, as a nation, could do with the right leadership. president trump is not the right leadership. he is speaking only to his base. he has made no apparent attempt

to understand, even recent american history, let alone 400 years of american history of 400 years since the first african-americans were brought here as slaves. he has -- he hasn't -- he doesn't grapple with the big issues like that. he looks at what is in front of him right now. he tries to win the day, win the hour, win the moment in the news cycle. he conducts his presidency like, you know, a long-running, great reality show. every day is a new episode, so this is, you know, the "i'm a tough guys" episode. you know, in one sense, it's

farcical, but this farce conseq. his actions will have real life and death consequences for people across the country. >> before the president made those remarks in the rose garden yesterday, he held a conference call with the nation's governors, in which he called them, quote, weak, and urged them to take a dominant military position against the unrest. >> you have to dominate. if you don't dominate, you're wasting your time. they're going to run over you. you're going to look like a bunch of jerks. you have to dominate. and most of you are weak. we're going to clamp down very, very strong. you gotta arrest people, you have to try people, you have to put them in jail for ten years, and you'll never see this stuff again. other officials on the call included attorney general bill barr and secretary of defense mark esper, who sided with president trump on the use of aggressive tactics. also on the call, general mark

mill milley, chairman of the joint chiefs, who president trump said he tapped to oversee the protests. >> the attorney general is here, bill barr. and we will activate bill barr and activate him very strongly. >> in many places, if not most places, you have this ingredient of excrimist/anarchist agitators who are driving the violence. law enforcement response is not going to work unless we dominate the streets as the president said. we have to control the streets. >> i agree, we need to dominate. i think the sooner that you mass and dominate the battlespace, the quicker this dissipates and we can get back to the right normal. >> we've got a number of people you'll be seeing a lot of. general millie is here, who is the head of joint chiefs of staff. a fighter, a warrior, a lot of victories and no losses.

he hates to see the way it is being handled in the various states. i've just put him in charge. >> while military humvees were seen deployed in major u.s. cities, the white house press secretary declined to offer details on general millie's exact role, or to say why a top military leader would be in charge of overseeing domestic law enforcement. joining us now, senior white house reporter for nbc news digital, shannon pettypiece. shannon, they're obviously talking to the governors on that call about the rioting, about the looting we've seen, that in some ways has overshadowed the large, peaceful protests around the death of george floyd. but how does president trump view general millieey's role? what is he doing here? >> reporter: yesterday, the president said very directly from the rose garden that if governors and mayors do not take the action he wants to see, the forceful action to stomp out these protests, he is going to send in the military.

now, there's a lot of questions about how he can do that legally. you mentioned earlier this insurrection act, this 200-year-old act he could possibly implement to use military police forces domestically. it'll get into a real complex situation, if we're going to go down that road. i don't know if we're going to go down there yet. the president is threatening it. you know, this call with governors was certainly remarkable. then i think the scene we saw that you were talking about earlier, playing out in lafayette square park, was a real manifestation of what the president is calling for. within the white house, the reaction i have been hearing from, you know, aides, people close to the white house, about how that chaotic scene yesterday went, that brutal scene yesterday went, they think it went great. this scene was exactly what the white house and the president's advisers for hoping for. they wanted a show of strength. they wanted to counter this narrative that the president is hiding in a bunker. they wanted to take back his space.

this use of force is the type of force they say the president wants to see other mayors using. so this, they see in the white house and trump's world, as a vi victory. just that thinking to give you an indication of where this is going. to give you color of what it is like being here at the white house while all this was unfolding yesterday. you could hear those flash bangs while the president was speaking in the rose garden, to the point they almost rattle your chest. the flash bangs are so strong. you could smell the pepper spray on the white house north lawn as the president was walking, starting to make his way across the park. during his speech, there is a roar of helicopters. there is the constant drone of sirens. that is the atmospherics here. when i talked to one person close to the white house, you know, was that a problem? no. they liked that. they thought that atmospherics, that chaos, that brutality going on was what they wanted to see

and the message that they wanted to send, willie. >> all right. shannon pettypiece, thank you very much. jonathan lemire, looking ahead to today, if the white house considered this to be a strong showing, which i can't -- i'm sorry. i don't think that everybody who works there is just completely staggeringly ststupid. they must have seen that this was a bit empty in its display, holding up the bible, standing in front of the church, tear gassing people in washington, d.c., to make way for the president to kquickly walk over there to stand there in front of a church. they must know, today, that more is needed. maybe a little bit more of a careful articulation of the complexities of this situation. or are we just looking ahead to more of this? >> mika, there has been some

preliminary discussions about other measures the white house could take. as we report today, they're discussing perhaps creating a new task force, maybe led by housing and urban development secretary ben carson to deal more directly with the protester issues. there is a discussion of more criminal justice reform. the president believes that's been his best political move so far with the african-american community. largely, we're going to see more of what we saw yesterday. it's the call with the dpgoverns and then what happened later at lafayette park. the president couldn't have stressed more strongly, angrily at the governors. he fought with some of the democrats on the call, called them weak, called them jerks, saying, "you need to crack down on the protesters. i'll give you the military. call the national guard." this is a political move. everything this president does, it is about november. he is trying to protect strength. we know what the president meis

president. he's making the bet the american people are rattled by the pro protests, the riots and looting, ignoring the underlying issues, of course, in the president's mind, and they want to see the federal government clamp down on this. he believes a show of military might -- and he wanted to have tanks on pennsylvania avenue last year for the fourth of july parade. he got military vehicles on pennsylvania avenue yesterday as part of the effort to clear out this park. i think we'll see more displays of strength from the president. he'll demand other cities do the same. if they don't, he would, we're told, act upon his threat, if you will, to second the mind th in. final point, yesterday, indeed, was a photo-op. the white house has already put out video, slow-motion video, of the president strolling across lafayette park. it was a taxpayer funded photo-op we saw yesterday. one trump senior adviser said

this to me, actually, there were two photo-ops. yes, the president in front of the church with a bible. we wanted that. the other photo-op was clearing the park, the display of strength and american might. >> a photo-op that involved a church that almost burned the night before that he didn't go into, that he didn't warn, and a photo-op that involved clearing the park of a peaceful protest, people exercising their first amendment rights, with gas and flash bangs. let's bring in the reporter for the "new york times," kaitlin dickerson. she has been covering the protests for the "times." her latest piece looks t s at t devastation to small and majority-owned businesses that likely will not recover from the looting on the heels of the coronavirus shutdown of the last several months. good morning. great to have you in the conversation. you're digging deeper into something we all know is happening, we're all seeing on our tvs. that is not the peaceful protesters who want change in the wake of the death of george floyd, but the people taking advantage of the protests by looting small businesses.

we've seen big businesses like macy's in new york. tell us more btabout the impactf small businesses, particularly those owned by black and brown people in america. >> sure. so what i wanted to do was to look at how those businesses were surviving, what they were waking up to. as we know, this protesting movement is happening against the background of the virus pandem pandemic, one that has disproportionately impacted these businesses we're talking about. there were already questioning, how were they going to move forward, if they could move forward at all? of course, waking up to find that windows had been broken, that merchandise had been taken for some, has called that into question even more. at the same time, i talked to business owners who kind of knew to expect this might happen, so have been sleeping outside their businesses or waiting in their businesses, trying to negotiate

with protesters. some have had success with that. those who said they stood outside and said to protesters, "hey, i don't have insurance so don't bash in my windows," they were successful and didn't suffer destruction. those who weren't there, it is gang to make moving forward a lot more difficult for them. what was also striking to me was that, you know, from the big retailers, walmart and nordstrom, to small businesses, including ones that told me they might not be able to move forward, they brought up this question of comparing, you know, the destruction of property to the destruction of life. said, "look, i'll be able to figure out a way to make more money, but george floyd's family will not be able to figure out a way to move forward. he's not coming back." >> caitlin, what is the recourse for some of the small business owners? as you mentioned, some of them don't have insurance. they've resorted to standing outside and pleading for their business as looters come by and try to smash and grab their

businesses. what happens? as you say, they were already deep in the hole, perhaps going to have to shut down anyway because of coronavirus and the restrictions that have been placed over the last couple of months. when your business is smashed, your merchandise is stolen, sometimes your building has been set on fire, what happens from there, for a small business owner? >> for those who have insurance, the best they can do is begin to file claims and jump into yet another very lengthy process that's, you know, ridden with bureaucratic red tape, just like the process they were in, to try to get federal help because of the coronavirus pandemic. to give you an example, one business owner i talked to in minneapolis, he grew up about five blocks from where george floyd died. he had a new mailbox business. he was happy to be able to bring, you know, the ability to print and to fax and deal with paperwork to a community that he

said really needed it. he had been open less than a year, which meant he wasn't eligible for the federal help that's been provided to small business owners because of the coronavirus pandemic. i raise that as an example, to show you there are so many challenges that make it difficult for small business owners to try to move forward and try to even access the help that does exist. so he was already, you know, really at a real deficit when this happened. what i mentioned before, i said, "do you have a message to protesters who looted your business?" he said, "as a black man who grew up five blocks from where george floyd died, i can't sit here and say that i am upset with them. because when i look at them, i realize that i could have been george floyd, too." he's really just at a loss. but the reality is, his business may close and his family is really going to struggle moving forward. >> obviously, there are an awful lot of people who work at those

businesses who were expecting sometime soon they might reopen after coronavirus. they might get their jobs back. now, that, at the very best, pushed off and perhaps will never return. caitlin dickerson with great reporting for the "new york times." thanks so much. mika? let's bring in the fact-checker for the "washington post," glen kel lssler, the co-author of "donald trump and his assault on truth." the president's falsehoods, misleading claims, and flat out lies. i guess the first question would be, how to get them all in the same book? the "washington post" has been keeping a tally, glen. obviously, the serious message here is it is also an assault on our democracy. >> correct, correct. what we did is we highlighted the most egregious, most repeated, some of the strangest

falsehoods and misleading statements that he has made. we take readers through a variety of issues and schhow ho he lies about himself, about his enemies, about the economy, trade, foreign policy. we hit the highlights, but i think even for me, who has been covering this now for three and a half -- nearly three and a half years, it was still astonishing to see it all in one place. i think it'll be shocking for many people, to see the kinds of things that he says day by day, that, frankly, you kind of forget about. he says, on average, 22 false things in a given day. >> jonathan lemire? >> hey, glenn. congrats on the book. i want to ask you what your favorite donald trump lie is. but let me, instead, ask you, perhaps, what his most dangerous might be, particularly those that have perhaps put americans in harm's way, or those that

will shape the narrative as he hurtles toward re-election five months from now. >> that's an interesting question. the range of falsehoods by the president are really extraordinary. so you have strange things, where he would say four times that barack obama couldn't land this plane in the philippines, which, you know, because leaders wouldn't let him land. i mean, that's absurd. we can never figure out why the president would say that, except he just wanted to degrade obama. but the biggest issue is that the president creates an alternative reality. he sketches a reality just for his base or for himself. he seems to appear to believe it. yesterday, you saw, for instance, he said he was with the peaceful protesters at the very moment when police were clearing peaceful protesters away with tear gas. so, you know, there's a quote

there that he can put into a video ad which does not bear any relationship to the actual truth. that's what you find repeatedly, is that he lives in his own world, social media world, that is not connected to what is actually happening in the united states. >> so, glenn, these conspiracy theories he's pushing, the lies that he tells, in fact, what are we missing? do you think the process that the american citizens, that the u.s. government, and our ability to conduct oversight is missing something that will have long-term ramifications? he's had so many lies that have just gone unchecked. >> right. well, we've tried to check them and tried to keep track. we've check this database. the interesting thing is, you

know, what is his future impact as a president? >> right. >> one problem, i think, that he faces is that because he hasn't tried to reach out to people who are not part of his base, because he lives in thiss a alternative reality world that is not reflected in what most americans see or hear, he has not been able to ever achieve majority support in any, you know, public opinion polls. that is unique for any president since world war ii. some point or another, they got above 50%. he has not. is that a recipe for success for a future president? you know, i'm not sure about that. we'll find out, you know, how things go the rest of the year, in terms of the election. you know, if he is elected, someone might say, oh -- if he is re-elected, someone might say, this is a template. if he isn't, people might say, actually, this opportunity really work. he didn't get majority support from the american people ever.

>> the book is "druonald trump d his assault on truth." fact-checker for the "washington post," glenn kessler. thank you very much for coming on the show. congratulations on the book. still ahead, it may have been the headline that set the president off. quote, as protests and violence spill over, trump shrinks back. we'll talk to peter baker about his reporting on the president hiding in a bunker. straight ahead on "morning joe." we're back in two minutes. introducing new voltaren arthritis pain gel, the first and only full prescription strength non-steroidal anti-inflammatory gel available over-the-counter. new voltaren is powerful arthritis pain relief in a gel. voltaren. the joy of movement.

have you ever asked god for forgiveness? >> i'm not sure i have. i just go and try to do a better job from there. i don't think so. i think if i do something wrong, i think i just try to make it right. i don't bring god into that picture. i don't. i hear this is a major theme right here, but two corinthians

3:17, that is the ball game. when i talk about the bible, it is personal. i don't want to get into -- >> there's no verse that means a lot to you, that you think about our cite? >> the bible means a lot to me, but i don't want to get into specifics. you know, when you hold up a bible, and nobody loves the bible more than i do, when you hold up a bible, you don't then put it down and go around lying and doing a lot of things that are wrong. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is tuesday, june 2nd. still with us, we have white house reporter for the "associated press," jonathan lemire. joining the conversation, along with willie and me, we have white house reporter for pbs news hour, yamiche alcindor. chief white house correspondent for the "new york times," peter baker. and professor in law at georgetown university, paul butler. he is a former federal prosecutor and author of the book entitled "choke hold: policing black men." joe is off this morning.

we begin with the protests against police brutality that continue to rage across the country. we saw a lot of peaceful demonstrations during the day, but, once again, they became chaos as day turned to night. new york city went from this early yesterday evening -- >> i promise you, all right? have a good day. i love you. >> love you, too, brother. >> let's go. >> that's right. >> -- to this just a few hours later. there was widespread looting, even before the 11:00 p.m. curfew set in. the iconic macy's in herald square was targeted, along with several luxury shops on madison avenue. police report more than 200 arrests. tonight's curfew has been moved up three hours to 8:00 p.m. peaceful protests in seattle also turned into chaos after being pelted with rocks and bottles. police responded with pepper

spray and flash bangs. here is how the scene at the white house played out yesterday. hundreds of protesters had been gathered peacefully in lafayette park outside the white house, chanting and holding signs. it was peaceful. around 6:10 p.m., attorney general william barr was spotted walking through the park, surveying the scene with a security detail. at 6:15, the president tweeted that he would be making brief remarks in the rose garden on the federal response to the nationwide protests. 20 minutes later, around 6:35, police fired flash bang shells, and mounted officers pushed back in on the protesters, pushing them away. here's how msnbc correspondent garrett haake describes what took place. >> reporter: mounted police have been coming down the street. you'll see them in the frame now. using flash bangs in front of them and mounted police to clear

what has been an entirely peaceful protest. not 90%, not 99%, but 100% peaceful protests here today. people throwing -- there was no. there was no throwing of objects. short time ago, mounted police officers have been clearing the street. >> 6:43 p.m., the president walked out to the rose garden and delivered remarks for about seven minutes, taking no questions. more on those remarks in just a moment. about 15 minutes later, president trump, along with several senior members of his administration, all white men, left the white house and walked to st. john's episcopal church. there, the president stopped briefly and held a bible up in the air. when a reporter asked if it was his bible, he replied, "it is a bible." he made brief remarks, calling

the u.s. the greatest country in the world, before walking back to the white house. when asked whether lafayette park was cleared of protesters in order to accommodate trump's photo-op at the church, the white house released a statement saying, in part -- this is incredible, seeing the way he is holding this bible -- this is what they say, the perimeter was expanded to help enforce the 7:00 p.m. curfew in the same area where rioters attempted to burn down one of our nation's most historic churches the night before. multiple sources tell nbc that the president's walk to the church was his idea pause , bec wanted the visual. he was frustrated by reporting that he had been take tn to a white house bunker during friday night's unrest because he was scared. it is a visual, sure. it is not praying. he's not reading any scripture. he is just standing in front of the church holding a bible.

yamiche, the protesters were pushed away with pepper spray and mounted police to make way for this, were they not? >> reporter: that's exactly what happened. yesterday was a stunning day for american democracy and for this country. we're obviously seeing the biggest uprising in protests in a generation. president trump's white house aides tell me he wanted to show a show of force. he wanted to show that he was dominant. he wanted the feeling that he was the macho president who was walking out and clearing people's way in order for him to have this moment in front of the church. i think reporters, of course, spend our careers, in some cases, trying to make it to the white house to report. it is an incredible privilege for me to report on this white house lawn. yesterday was one of the first times that i was privileged to be outside the white house gates, as president trump was delivering his remarks. i tasted and smelled and choked on the tear gas that was used for president trump to walk to the church. i was standing with a bunch of

protesters, listening to the president on my phone, and i started hearing flash bangs. i started seeing people running. i didn't run because i realized i'm on 17th and pennsylvania. this is a safe space. this is where i go every single day for work. what i saw were police officers chasing protesters, pushing them out of the way. it took me a while to realize that it was because president trump wanted to go on a walk. it's incredible, especially because after president trump left that church, we heard from the bishop who oversees that church, who said she was outraged, outraged that her church had been used as a photo-op. it is also something that has to be said, when president trump was tear gassing people to get to the church, he was also tear gassing members of the clergy. priests, jesuit priests, people of all faiths. he was moving them out of the way for this photo-op. it was because the president wanted to be seen on tv as a strong person. i think what americans really want is a leader with answers. what he did last night in seven

minutes was not talk about police brutality or racial issues. he didn't lay out, "here's the agenda." there is talk, as jonathan lemire said, that hud secretary ben carson might be put in charge of a solution for this. secretary carson is supposed to be working on how and why the pandemic is killing black and brown people of color at disproportionate rates. we've never gotten that. as president trump is using tear gas to move people out of the way, he is also not dealing with the pandemic in a way he promised. >> peter baker, let's talk about the origins of this photo this op, and it was a photo-op. it looked like an episode of "the apprentice." the white house later presented it in slow motion, with music, striding, looking like it was the season finale of "the aprendes," towarapre apprenti apprentice."

reverend budde of the episcopal archdiocese in washington said she had no idea it was coming. she was outraged at how the crowd was dispersed. he held the bible upside down, didn't address the church or the concerns of the church, but used it as a photo-op before returning to the safety of the white house. did this come about because of his frustration with the coverage, that the secret service rushed him friday night to the bunker to protect him, that he was rage tweeting from the safety of that bunker instead of addressing what was happening in the streets, and the reason that the peaceful protesters were in the streets after the death of george floyd? >> yeah. no question, i think that the president was rattled by the protests starting friday night, going over the weekend, and he was upset at the image of being rushed to the bunker. of course, that's the decision made usually by the secret service regarding protocols. doesn't indicate anything on his part. obviously, conveyed something

less than the image of all powerful strength that he enjoys, that he likes to project. you know, willie, i've been covering the white house a long time. i've never seen anything like yesterday, obviously. we've never seen a photo-op like that. even the normally transparent photo-ops presidents stage, you would have went inside the church, had them show you the damage that was done the night before, looking like you're doing something other than what you are, posing to have a picture taken so you can use it in a campaign ad or have the television networks play it or what have you. he didn't bother with that kind of normal pretense, honestly. he walked over, just stood there, he held the piebl fbible apparent reason, didn't say what the point of holding it up was. it is not his bible. he is not a religious man by any genuine understanding of what that means. then walked back, without having said a word while there, basically.

i think that's -- after having cleared the square, cleared the street in front of st. john's with tear gas and flash grenades, it is surreal, which doesn't begin to cover it. >> paul butler, you're a former federal prosecutor and a law professor there in washington at georgetown university. the president talked about invoking the insurrection act of 1807, which was signed by president thomas jefferson, to put the united states military in the streets, to squash some of the rye it i donioting and t he's seen. yesterday, he cleared the square of peaceful protesters. what are the legal questions that hop to mind as you listen to the president speak yesterday? >> the insurrection act of 1807 gives the president the power to invoke the military to quell domestic insurrection. the question is, we are gearing toward military rule.

what happened yesterday was the president's toxic, insecure masculinity on steroids. willie, you said it reminded you of the "apprentice." it reminded me of "rupaul's drag race," we the elaborate staging and the props. the concern is that the president is invoking this military -- militaristic images. he is calling on the insurrection act, which, actually, in the civil rights movement, has a proud tradition. it is what allowed president siz eisenhower to use the military to go into states that weren't enforcing the desegregation orders of brown versus board of education. the president is flipping that on its head. now, it's true that the insurrection act has been neuus in other contexts to have the military come in, for example, in los angeles, to quell the insurrection after rodney king was killed by police. but it hasn't been used in 28

years. significantly, bill barr was the attorney general the last time this was invoked. at the same time that the president trashed the first amendment right of protesters yesterday, he invoked the second amendment in this bizarre speech. he also said that the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff is in charge. no one knows exactly what that means. but this is a crucial, dangerous moment in our history. >> so earlier in the day, before this happened, president trump berated the nation's governors during a conference call yesterday. yesterday was incredible. he called them, quote, weak, and urged the governors to take a dominant military position against the racial unrest. >> you have to dominate. if you don't dominate, you're wasting your time. they're going to run over you.

you're going to look like a bunch of jerks. you have to dominate. and most of you are weak. we're going to clamp down very, very strong. you gotta arrest people. you have to try people. you have to put them in jail for ten years, and you'll never see this stuff again. the attorney general is here, bill barr. and we will activate bill barr and activate him very strongly. got a number of people here you're going to be seeing a lot of. general milley is here, who is head of joint chiefs of staff, a fighter, a warrior, and a lot of victories and no losses. he hates to see the way it's being handled in the various states, and i've just put him in charge. >> jonathan lemire, what exactly is general milley in charge of, and how do you activate the attorney general? >> we asked the department of justice that exact question last night, mika. they weren't sure. this is still in the early stages of planning, how exactly

this is going to come to pass in the coming days. but this is connected to what we saw yesterday at the park, certainly. the president, as we were discussing, likes to project american might and american strength, american power. in this case, he is doing it against certain citizens which, of course, has raised a lot of real concerns. the move was sharply criticized by democratic governors on the call. late later, after the clearing of lafayette park. pet peter, let me ask you. the president, of course, in the call, we heard him, he seemed angry. one person described him asunhi. cracking down on the protests is good politically for him, in addition, he says, to keeping america safe. doo we have an idea of what threshold needs to be crossed in order for him to deploy the

military, to send the national guard to some of the states? he talks about new york, philadelphia, los angeles. he said, "you're not doing enough. i'll have to handle this." do we know how and when that might occur? >> no. it's the real question, jonathan. you're exactly right. he's governors, most of the governors have been dealing with him do not want him to send in troops under his command. they have the national guard themselves and are dealing with it as best they can. remember, the last time the insurrection act was invoked was under barr in 1992 for the rodney king riots. the state of california asked president bush to send in the troops. last time it was over the objection of governors was to enforce civil rights over states like alabama and so forth that were resisting desegregation. that was sent by, obviously, eisenhower, and john f. kennedy,

johnson. we're now in a situation where the president would impose his will over that of the governor of the state and send in troops. that is a big threshold to cross and a dangerous one. president bush 45 in 2005 considered invoking the insurrection act to send in troops to help. he didn't want to do it over the objection of the state's democratic leaders, the governor and the mayor there. he didn't want to make it look like the federal government was coming in over their objections. i think he later thought it was a mistake. what happened in the city of new orleans. but that's how sensitive it has been in the past. that's how important this divide between, you know, the idea of a president sending in troops to a sovereign state. republicans generally talk about state's rights. that's what a pbig moment this would be, if and when he does that. district of columbia is an exception. it is not a state. he can send in the army without

mayor bowser's approval. he's already stoking a confrontation with her, and she's upset. you could see that last night here in washington, d.c. >> yamiche, by nearly all accounts, the white house is thrilled with how things went down yesterday. they think the president sounded strong on that call. they liked that the audio was leaked out with the governors. they thought his reality show moment played well. as i said, they're already distributing that widely in slow motion. they've called, according to "axios," the moment -- the photograph where he stood in front of st. john's emiss pis c church with the bible upside down, quote, iconic. another official said, quote, i've never been so ashamed. i'm sick to my stomach. they're very proud of themselves." the official is talking about the colleagues in the white house, referring to clearing the

square with flash bangs. what are you hearing from your sources in the white house from yesterday? >> reporter: sources tell me they feel the president did a good thing, by showing the nation he could clear streets in order to go and go to this religious place, this church. they felt like this played well. he, of course, is a president who is a television president. he is someone who understands optics. i will say, there is one thing the president said yesterday that kind of really summarizes his take. he said that america was founded on the rule of law. the other thing, of course, america was founded on is the press freedoms and the freedom to also protest your government. the freedom to demand change of your government. the president made it clear that when it is all said and tone, the thing that'll really be -- take precedent over all of this will be the rule of law. the idea that he, as the president, can move citizens out of his way in order to take a walk. it is, in some ways, stunning,

but it is also very much what he wanted to do. he liked the idea of going to a church so much, turning this into a conversation about religion instead of police brutality and racism, that he'll be going to the shrine of st. john paul ii and be sign iing a document about religious freedoms. this is about african-americans and people of color being brutalized by the police, mass incarcerated, having health inequalities. there are all skoorts of thingst the heart of this, about inequality. yesterday, the president said, i want to show you a show of force. i want you to see the people i see as un-american, domestic terrorists, they can be used out of the way if i need to in order to do what i want to do. which is make a taxpayer-funded photo-op video. the video put out yesterday by the white house, though it is not a campaign ad, you can see that he is looking on the horizon at the november election, wanting to put out con

de tent that he can show his base, an example of how he'll rule this. it is not slulolutions, in this case at least, but with force. it's showing that police in military gear can move people out of the way. it is stunning. the death of george floyd has been ruled a homicide by the minneapolis medical examiner and a private examiner hired by the floyd family. there is disagreement on the cause of death. the hennepin county autopsy listed the cause of death as a cardio pulmonary arrest, meaning his heart stopped beating and lungs stopped getting air. the medical examining included heart disease and intoxication as, quote, another significant condition. but doctors performing the private autopsy had this to say. >> we acknowledge that additional medical information,

including toxicology and further investigation are necessary for a final report. however, the evidence is consistent with mechanical asphyxia as the cause of death, and homicide as the manner of death. >> the autopsy shows that mr. floyd had no underlying medical problem that caused or contributed to his death. this is confirmed by information provided to dr. wilson and myself from the family. >> according to the "star tribune," the doctor added that floyd died after four or five minutes of restraint by knee to the neck, though he was officially pronounced dead later at the hospital. the complete -- the complaint charging former officer derek chauvin with the killing says there was no evidence of traumatic asphyxia. paul butler, what do you make of

these two different autopsy reports? how much impact will they have on the case against derek chauvin? >> the most important fact is that both autopsies show that mr. floyd died of homicide. that means he didn't die of natural causes. his death was caused by another human being. in this context, that's a medical term. it doesn't mean that there's a criminal act that's responsible. that's something that a jury will determine. what's most significant is that the family's report suggests that mr. floyd died because of asphyxia that was caused by restraint. not just from the neck come ple presentation, but also from the acts of the other police officers, which prevented air from getting to his -- from oxygen and blood getting to his brain and lungs. that raises the question of, why haven't those other cops been

charged, if they're also responsible for mr. floyd's death? if they are charged, will they be charged with murder like officer -- former officer chauvin. >> paul butler, thank you very much. peter baker, thank you, as well, for your reporting this morning. coming up, in 2016, many polls failed to capture discontent in wide swaths of the country. our next guest says the same could be said of this moment, particularly in the black community. that conversation is next on "morning joe." i didn't have to shout out for help.

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invoked the full weight of our history though, how black lives have been devalued by our society. it is not only intolerable, but people are angry. i'm sure you are, too. i'm angry. i know, and the fact is, we need that anger. we need that to compel us to move forward. it helps us push through this pain and reach the other side,

to hopefully greater progress, equality, and inclusion, and opportunity in our country. but we're also seeing a justifiable public outrage and protests turning to needless acts of destruction across cities in the country, which is not justified. the acts of protesting should never overshadow the reasons we're protesting. >> former vice president joe biden spent monday listening to community leaders and the nation's mayors. their concerns about the deep racial divide happening within the country. this morning, he will deliver remarks in philadelphia for what the campaign says will be on the civil unrest facing communities across america. joining us now, director of communications for the democracy fund, a bipartisan foundation that says its mission is to help ensure that the american people come first in our democracy. their recent survey found that

joe biden may be underperforming with black voters when compared with recent democratic presidential candidates. also with us, long-time media executive and cnbc founder and contributor, tom rogers. he is editor at large at "newsweek." his latest piece for the magazine is entitled, "where are bernie sanders and college campus activism when we need it the most?" which he co-authored with his daughter, new york attorney jessica rogers-ecker. look forward to that, tom. thanks for being on. najm najma, i want to start with you and joe biden underperforming in the black vote. explain what you're seeing and what do you think is behind it? >> good morning. thank you for having me. so there is a couple of things happening here. no surprise, our data shows that joe biden is certainly still connected with that older voter. but where we're seeing a difference is that younger

african-american voter, the black vote, to be honest. he is not connecting as well with the younger black generation. we're seeing this play out. they're skeptical about the election. they're skeptical about policies showing up for them. those are the differences that we're seeing right now in the data. >> tom, you and your daughter, you point out, that you always don't see exactly eye to eye on certain issues, but this you agree on. there's some places where you think biden needs to do more work. >> well, we're seeing here all kinds of analogies, back to the unrest of the late '60s. another form of unrest was on college campuses, which really blew up. we've seen the last few years much college protesting about trump and the trump administration. biden is up 17% with older voters, but he is actually up over 30% among the younger

voters. that's more than mcgovern was up in the '72 election versus nixon. but biden has a young voter problem. they don't vote as much as they're expected to. he hasn't really inspired them at all. 61%, according to a "usa today" poll, said they're not excited about voting for biden. biden also has a social media problem. trump is outspending him 3-1 on social media. trump has a much more sophisticated social media problem. he's taken the legal intimidation route against twitter and facebook. what does biden need? constructive college activism now. for that, he needs bernie sanders, who showed he could really organize college campuses. he dunoesn't need a platform fit and virtual convention from bernie sanders. he needs the college activism we saw in the late '60s, obviously, of a peaceful nature.

we saw self-interest back then play out because college kids were worried about being drafted. sanders figured out how to tap college self-interest very well in these last couple presidential psycycles. he knows how to talk to them about free tuition, about student loans and health care, and a stable financial future for them. so what he really needs from sanders is to organize college campuses into a social media messaging brigade. college kids are active on social media. he needs to organize them on biden's behalf to be pushing out all kinds of social media. not just to their college peers but to their entire social media networks. their aunts, their uncles, their cousins, their grandparents, their co-workers, so that he has the ability to constantly hit every lie coming out of trump with some kind of social media response that is constant, and a network that can push into millions of homes.

he needs to give the college kids the tools to customize these messages so they're really relevant for whoever is going to be receiving them. if he could do that, he could have a free media messaging machine that could combat the trump social media advantage and, hopefully, create some greater enthusiasm among college kids. >> willie? >> najma, it is willie geist. good to have you on the show this morning. >> thank you so much for having me. >> there is the bet that -- absolutely -- that the biden campaign is making is what is the alternative? if you're outraged at the trump presidency, are you, a, voting for donald trump, or, b, stay home? the election is too important to stay home, is the case the biden campaign would make. what is the alternative? what do young voters, and in the case of young black voters, what do troy thathey want to see morm biden so they'll come out and vote? >> they need biden to listen.

they feel that he has not listened. he needs to listen to what they need. we're seeing this play out this week. there's so many discrepancies in how discrimination is playing out right now in the united states. young black voters need biden to listen. listen to what the policies could be, listen to how they can get involved, and really get deeply rooted in the community. so this is not just about a presidential campaign. this is not just about a conversation with biden. it is really understanding the things that young people are facing right now. everything from police discrimination, everything from unemployment, the way that the coronavirus has rolled out. they need someone that cares about their community, about the backwards they live in, and they need him to listen. this survey shows that there's not many people listening to

young plaqblack voters right no. that's what they need. >> yamiche? >> reporter: thank you so much. najma, i want to ask you a question about african-american voters. i've talked to some who criticize joe biden, who say even though trump is the alternative, they don't have to go to joe biden. talk to me a little bit about what data shows, or what you've heard, about the fact that not being trump just isn't enough for joe biden to win african-american voters. >> that's absolutely right. this is not just about trump. this is about forward thinking. it is thinking about the future for african-american voters. what policies are we setting up so that young people can go to college? what policies are we setting up so that unemployment rates go down? it is not just about trump. it is about deeply -- getting deeply rooted inside of the community. ensuring that the black voters, the black voices can be heard.

if we continue to make the election about trump, we all know how that's playing out. we're seeing all of this playing out on our screens every night. we really -- this has to be about community. it has to be about forward thinking, getting deeply rooted inside what young people need right now, what matters most to them. what matters most to them is that they can have a life where they are not experiencing police brutality. where they have great jobs. where they're able to go to school. where their parents have health care. where they have health care. deeply rooted in the community, that is what young voters want. it is not about biden. this is about a larger systemic issue of racism that has not been addressed as much as it needs to be. it needs to be done on the community level, on the individual level, and empowering young black voters to take a stand. >> right. >> gene robinson, you have a question for tom rogers. gene?

>> just, tom, i remember the college campus activism of the late '60s and '70s, which was a huge political factor in this country. so are there any places where you see stirrings of that at all? any campuses, in particular? or is that just not the way young people are expressing themselves these days? >> well, i think young people aren't expressing themselves as much through the kind of physical protesting we saw in the '60s. many suggested it is because of social media. social media has become the way you can sound off and protest. you see a lot of activism, so to speak, in the social media world. we know how active college kids are on social media. that's why i'm saying if we could organize that, and bernie sanders really needs to be the catalyst for organizing it because he has such a following

among the college vote, that if he can really use that social media presence of college kids, to be that messaging machine, to get out the sentiments, convince them this eelection, even if thy aren't inspired by biden, couldn't mean more to their future. this is the one they have to weigh in and use the social media time to be pushing out messages to all their digital connections, you could create a monster of a free media messaging machine that could really get college kids involved in the election that would matter. >> tom rogers, thank you very much. we'll be reading you and your daughter's new piece in "newsweek." najma roberts, thank you, as well. director of communications for the democracy fund. thank you, both. coming up, many of the nation's governors stayed silent during yesterday's call with the president. our next guest is not one of them.

illinois's jb pritzker joins the conversation next on "morning joe."

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you have to dominate. if you don't dominate, you're wasting your time. they're going to run over you. you'll look like a bunch of jerks. you have to dominate. and most of you are weak. we're going to clamp down very, very strong. you gotta arrest people, you have to try people, you have to put them in jail for ten years, and you'll never see this stuff again. >> president trump on a conference call with the nation's governors yesterday,

urging a stronger, some argue, a more dangerous response to protests following the death of george floyd. joining us from chicago, the governor of illinois, jb pritzker. governor, thank you so much for being on the show with us. >> good morning. >> we heard a bit of your exchange with the president, pushing back a little bit. read about it. can you explain to us what you were hoping he would hear? >> well, i think the president doesn't understand that his rhetoric is making things worse. if it's not that he doesn't understand, it's that, you know, by calling governors jerks for not dominating our cities across our state, you know, he is calling us out in ways that just make things much worse. so i just felt like, after listening to him rant, i had to say anything. what i wanted him to do was to recognize that he needs,

instead, to be calling for calm. that he needs to be calling for a united country. i realize that it is a long shot to get this president to do that, but i thought it was very important at this moment. >> so explain, if you could -- he is known to watch -- under more calm circumstances, but expla explain, if you could, exactly how it makes things worse. how his words incite or anger, and what it is they're actually causing. >> well, remember, there are legitimate peaceful protesters out there. legitimate grievances, concerns, that have to be addressed, around police accountability, around investment in black and brown communities. this president could have said something to that. instead, he goes completely to the other end. he is focusing on the very few protesters out there that are causing violence and property damage. we're trying to deal with those.

there's no doubt about it, we need to put down those folks. but we need to hear the voices of black and brown communities, and all the protesters that were out there, again, standing up for their rights. >> willie? >> governor, it's willie geist. good to have you on the show this morning. the president talked yesterday about invoking the insurrection act of 1807, which would allow him to put military troops in the cities and -- the streets of cities like your own. governors would have to be consulted on that. has the federal government reached out to you about the possibility of the united states military being in the streets of, say, chicago? >> no. i would reject that. he does not have the ability to send troops in without being called on by the states to do it. i don't know any governor that's going to call on the federal government, the federal troops to into their state. we don't need that. we have our national guard backing up, supporting local law enforcement. we have our state police

supporting local law enforcement. this is going to take a couple of days. there's no doubt about it. but last night, there was a big, beautiful, peaceful protest that took place. each night there has been, although, again, there have been roving elements of people who are just looking to cause damage. some of it in a very organized fashion. we need help from the federal government to put it down. one thing i'll point out to you ask is i had a conversation with the fbi yesterday and asked them, who is responsible? there are organized elements out there that are political in nature. >> they said, no, we don't have that going on in illinois. rather than echoing what the president says about antifa, what they're saying is that this is not -- these are people looking to loot, looking to profit, organized crime, essentially. >> so it is fair to say, governor, you think you have things under control in the state of illinois without the united states military coming in, in terms of controlling the

looters, controlling the rioters, separate from those peaceful protesters? >> well, we're working on making sure we have control. the fact is, we do not want or need federal troops entering our state. remember, this is a state that holds the values of freedom, of standing up for people's rights, civil rights, in particular, very close to our hearts. we're the land of lincoln, the land of barack obama, the land of ulysses s. grant. we can overcome the challenges. there is a call for calm going on by our clergy today, and i really believe we can bring down the temperature. but not when the president of the united states is standing up, calling for troops and, you know, demanding law and order and domination. >> jonathan lemire? >> governor, as you know, the president has said that if go governors like yourself don't do enough, don't utilize the national guard, don't crack down on the protests, he'd send the military. i know you said you don't want

it. as of last night, according to our reporting, there is no g governor in the nation who has since requested that help from washington. let me ask you this: do you have a mechanism in place to perhaps fight this legally if the president does insist that he will send troops to, say, chicago? are you confident in your ability to win that? what sort of obstacles will you try to put up? what is that conversation going to look like? the president seemed striking yesterday, that this is something he wanted to do. >> well, beginning with my governors' office general counsel and going to our attorney general, there is no doubt we would fight this in court if we needed to. the president is known, as you know well, for calling out these things, saying he is going to do something that is completely not within his power. my hope is that he won't try to extend beyond his own limits of power. but if he does, we will fight him, and we will take it to federal court.

>> all right. governor jb pritzker, thank you very much. we hope it doesn't go there. let's bring in another governor who is on that call. the governor of michigan, gretchen whitmer. thank you so much for being on the show this did you hear anything on the call that could be helpful in anyway. >> as with all of these calls it started late. we were given documents at the last minute. we thought that it was going to be a totally different subject and when he started it was a rant against the nation's governors and it was surprising. it was galing. i've been on a lot of calls. i don't usually talk about them despite some of the things that might be interesting to the world. i don't do that but this one was so bad and others felt the same way and it obviously hit the

news. that's what we need more than anything. >> so how will you then approach this question, we have dual sovereignty in the united states. you are sovereign as governor and he is sovereign as president and usually that just gets worked out. but it looks as if there might be a clash coming. how do you analyze it or do you think this is just a big bluff. >> you know, i don't know. i'm not going to make decisions based on threats to be bullied or anything other than what i know to be the right thing to do on behalf of the people of the state. as jb just said, the majority of

the demonstrations are people. they are organized. they are focused on george floyd and the issue of police brutality and history in this country. we're seeing a convergence of this and the racial disparities that covid-19 is holding up to our nation as a mirror and we have to do better and leaders across this country or our leaders at the local level and state level need to be calling for unity and understanding. as a white woman, i have lots of fears about my kids when i leave the house but i cannot imagine what a woman of color fears when her are and that's precisely why understanding and being determined together to solve these problems is what we need more than anything right now. not division. not threats of military. what we need is unity and hope and that's not what we're getting out of d.c. and that's why it's incumbent to step up

and fill that void now more than ever. >> the president is focussing on the rioters and looters and talking about sending in the military and a lot of people that i know that want to see real change are worried that's going to overshadow their own message. let's stay on that message for a moment. what is something practical that can change. once we get past the sound and the fury and the smoke and the fires the people leading the peaceful protests want change in their lives and change in their communities. so from a policy level, what is something that can change tomorrow, next week, next month that will improve things and move things forward. >> i appreciate the nature of the question because that's the conversation that we should be having in this country right now. here in michigan we were one of the first states to release racial data associated with covid-19.

13.6% of our population is african american. it's a history of systemic health care equity and opportunity. equity is being able to have a grocery store in your neighborhood or transportation and all of these are culminating in this moment to force us to do better. and that's why i created it. they're tackling issues associated in the midst of the global pandemic but we expanded it to make sure that we have an agenda goes toward the racial strife in this country. we all know george floyd's name. there's many that suffered the same fate that weren't captured on video.

that's precisely, we in the nature have to put it together and it comes from task forces like the lieutenant governor had here in michigan. >> quickly, what's a concrete question on policing? how can we address policing? you have identified the problem, but what is a policy change in policing that you would like to see enacted? >> there's no question, we need training. we need better representation. we're working on a lot of this but we have a lot of work to go. i heard someone on your show not long ago talk about how you have to have a moral compass and that's something you can't teach. people without it should not be with a badge and a gun and that is a fact and that's why we have to seriously look at ourselves, how we train, how we are inclusive and how we have representation and how we hold people accountable. >> governor, just looking at the overall picture here, we're at well past 100,000 people dead and more are dying from a

pandemic. we have an economic collapse happening with staggering unemployment numbers and now this racial unrest, i cannot think of a worst scenario for this country. i just can't. and you say he was ranting and it was so bad. what were you hearing from him? what were you thinking about what you were hearing? what's going on with him. >> you know what, i can't tell you what is going on there. i can just tell you that the effect of it is to make what is already a nation that is hurting in more pain. when we see split screen last night of an address that says i stand with peaceful protestors and on the other side of the screen you see his police forces shooting rubber bullets at peaceful protestors, it makes you question everything that you hear from anyone in a position of power. it undermines our ability to bring healing to this nation.

i watched it with my 18-year-old daughter. it was stunning. i don't have the words to describe the pain it inflicts on us all. we have to be determined to show the leadership that we need a new country and it's coming from a lot of our local office holders and governors across the country. >> all right. thank you very, very much and still ahead, we're going to hear from two leading mayors. d.c. mayor muriel bowser and the mayor of atlanta will be our guest. plus we have reporters covering yesterday's protests. those live reports are just ahead. morning joe is coming right back. so you only pay for what you need! [squawks] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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violent mobs, arsonists, criminals, antifa and others. these are not acts of peaceful protest. these are acts of domestic terror. the destruction of innocent life and the spilling of innocent blood is an offense to humanity and a crime against god. that's why i'm taking immediate presidential action to stop the violence and restore security and safety in america. i'm mobilizing all available federal resources civilian and military to stop the rioting and looting, to end the destruction and arson and to protect the rights of law abiding americans.

i deploy the national guard in numbers that we dominate the streets. they must establish an overwhelming law enforcement presence until the violence has been quelled. if they refuse to take the actions to defend the life and property of their residents then i will deploy the united states military and quickly solve the problem for them. >> president trump in his remarks from the rose garden threatening to deploy the u.s. military to suppress the demonstrations which he called acts of domestic terror. here's how the scene around those remarks at the white house played out. hundreds of protestors have been gathered peacefully outside of the white house chanting and holding signs. as you can see, these are peaceful protests. william barr was spotted

surveying the scene with the security detail. at 6:15 the president said he would make remarks on the federal response to the nationwide protest. 20 minutes later around 6:35, police fired hand described wha took place. >> you'll see them using mounted police to clear what has been an entirely peaceful protest. not 90%, not 99% but 100% peaceful protests here today. people throwing yet there was no throwing of water bottles. there was no throwing of objects but a short time ago mounted police officers have been clearing the street. >> at 6:43 p.m. the president

walked out to the rose garden and delivered remarks for seven minutes taking no question. no mention of george floyd. about 15 minutes later president trump along with several senior members of his administration left the white house and walked to st. john's episcopal church. he stopped briefly and held a bible up in the air. when a reporter asked if it was his bible he replied it's a bible. he made some brief remarks calling the u.s. the greatest country in the world before walking back to the white house. when asked whether lafayette park was cleared of protestors in that violent way in order to accommodate trump's visit to the church the white house released a statement saying in part the perimeter was expanded to help enforce a 7:00 p.m. curfew in the same area rioters attempted

to burn down one of the nation's most historic churches the night before. the president's walk to the church was his idea because he wanted the visual and he was frustrated by reporting he had taken to the white house bunker during friday night's unrest. and associate editor of the washington post is still with us as well. this was a peaceful protest and everything went crazy when they wanted to clear the place for the president to make his little walk to the church. it seemed rather frightening for the protestors. >> it was and it was president trump sending a message, a message that he feels good

about. he wanted to show that he could use americans physically out of the way to do the photo op. he said america was founded on the rule of law and he was making the case that this rule of law and his ability to walk across the street takes precedent over constitutionally protected rights, the freedom of the press, the freedom to gather of the protestors. i was standing on 17th street and pennsylvania which is a historic corner in front of the white house. i choked on the tear gas myself. i was confused why the police were being so violent with a peaceful protest. there was no provocation. people weren't throwing things. people weren't doing anything to the police that would have warranted this use of force but what police did was advance on protestors, myself included as a reporter and they were throwing tear gas and clearing the field and then later on i was confused wondering why this happened and then i looked up and saw the images of the president in front of the church and that's what he wanted americans to know. that he was being dominant in

this moment. it's a signal to governors that this is what he wants to see happen in states all across the country. so this president is saying today he wants this to be -- he wants to see these people as terrorists. he wants to see them as people he can physically move out of the way when it's ready and time to do a taxpayer funded video of his walk to the church. so the president holding the bible up like it's a trump steak, it's so staggeringly kind of empty given other moments in history where presidents have gone to churches and have used prayer to restore calm and fill the hearts of the broken hearted. i can think of many moments in

recent history and i can't explain it. perhaps you can put it better into words what happened here at this church and also what didn't happen. >> well, what didn't happen is what usually happens when a leader goes to a church. usually goes inside. there's usually praise, usually speaks with people, with the clergy and with parishioners. this was not a spiritual moment. it was a campaign moment and it was -- it was weirdly transparent. in clearing away the protestors to allow this completely

artificial walk across and to stand in front of a boarded up dhurj holdi church holding a bible as if it were an object that just landed from outer space and look at this thing. i have in my hand. i wonder what it is. very strange. obviously there's no one way to hold a bible. i've never seen anybody hold a bible like that. i've just never seen it and say nothing of cracking it open. but there was none of that. it will all be in post production i guess, the campaign ads that we'll feature in but

watching it in real time in addition to being antidemocratic and horrifying on so many levels it was just transapparently weird. and hiss pushing on that level as well. >> it's already made a video that amounts to a campaign video. and it's just across the square from the white house. the images were iconic of holding up the bible. we can remind him of the interviews when he was asked for his favorite bible versus. he said i don't want to get into versus. it's very personal to me. when asked if he preferred the old or the new testament. he said probably equal. the whole bible is incredible said then candidate donald

trump. so let's talk about the thinking behind this. it's not that hard to figure out. a lot of americans in this country watch what is happening in the streets at night. they saw a nation on fire and saw looters and rioters on fire. this historic church, the president seizing on that and trying to have a photo on there as an image of his own restoring and order. using the police, the secret service and national guard to do it. it was breathtaking and an extraordinary abuse of power. these were demonstrators of course. not yesterday. these were peaceful protestors

and suddenly the federal police mobilized there moved on and pushed them back and roughed some of them up and it was in order to create this photo on that you directly said the campaign commercial looks like an outtick from the apprentice. this was from the president looking tough. especially in light of the fact that he was poking fun of joe biden when he has ventured out and talked and listened to constituents and residents in dell way. this was meant to be a display of strength. he wanted this image. not there. vice president mike pence was not involved yesterday with the

photo on. we're not certain why that is. we asked the white house why he wasn't involved but this is indeed an effort to show governors this is how you should handle protestors in an effort for this president to be run for re-election as a strong man. ie the richard nixon 1968 play book. the difference, president trump is the incumbent. nixon wasn't. he was the outcider. he was saying he failed you. president trump however could be blamed for the failures. >> let's turn now to the mayor of washington d.c. mayor bowser, i know that you said these acts with these protestors being moved on like this by the federal police were shameful. and it makes the job of the police harder. i want to hear about that but also were they asulted saulted police? were the rights of these citizens violated? >> what we know is that i had to

impose a 7:00 p.m. curfew last night in washington d.c. to make sure that people that were there to protest could do that but also so that we could maintain safety in neighborhoods across the d.c. -- across d.c. and what we saw was before the curfew time, they were released on people who didn't seem to have provoked any attack. so that is very concerning to us. but we need people to go home at the curfew time. >> good to have you on this morning. did the white house alaert you or your police department that the president of the united states was going to leave the white house and walk through lafayette square and go to the church last night?

>> we had activity making sure that federal police activities were focused on federal properties and federal purposes. my police department briefed the attorney general to make sure that they knew that d.c. police would be policing d.c. streets and at no time did we assist the federal police with the president's movements. >> and so you don't feel a responsibility from your police department to handle the president's movement is the bottom line. so they did not need to reach out to you for that.

when he moves around the city we have a special detail that supports traffic management and that happens on a daily basis with the president's movements. we're in a special situation in washington d.c. we are the nation's capital and we support our partners at the service and park police on demonstrations all the time and they support us all the time so yesterday we were very focused on d.c. police policing d.c. streets and the feds policing federal properties. we want to emphasize that we need people to go home at the curfew time so our police chief will continue to be in touch with our federal partners so that we better understand what their plans are. >> at the root of all of this as

you know very well is not just the death of george floyd but what has happened is so many other african american men, particularly but african american men and women across this country in the hands of police. so what do you see, we're talking about this a few minutes ago. what do you see as a concrete change in your department that could be implemented so that all of this sound, all of this fear, everything that we're seeing in these streets amounts to something in the end.

we work every day to support our communities and keep our communities safe. police in communities need each other. we need good policing in all of our neighborhoods. we need good police officers and the police need communities to be able to trust them. so that we can work together to keep our communities safe. and that's what we want to emphasize. we're all outraged here in washington. police included at what we saw in minneapolis and what we have seen in brutal incidents around our country.

we need justice and that's what people want to see. >> gene robinson has a question. >> mayor bowser, you are uniquely accustom to police jurisdictions because you have so many police forces in the district of columbia and you're not acustomed to seeing the military act in the district of columbia and the president does have power to do that that he wouldn't have in the states.

you talked about before why d.c. needs to be the 51st state. that's so important that the area outside of the federal enclave become the 51st state where we are autonomous for the federal government interference and the federal government would police a smaller federal district around the white house and capital and all the monuments and memorials. so these incidents call into stark need why statehood for washington d.c. is so important. and yes, we had many conversations yesterday with federal authorities so that we push back very hard on them on trying to encroach on the home rule of washington d.c.

and we haven't seen the military. we certainly have seen the police forces that we work with all the time, the dea, and the park police and the fbi, and we asked for national guard troops to help us police and help us with traffic management in the downtown area. so while we think that those uses are appropriate, bringing in the active duty military against americans for any reason is inappropriate. >> all right mayorel bowser thank you very much. we appreciate your service and

we hope to have you back here soon to keep us posted and in just a few moments the mayor of atlanta will be our guest. we'll have reports after another day of unrest. we'll see what officials are doing to get a tighter grip on things. morning joe is back in a moment. my nunormal: fewer asthma attacks. less oral steroids. taking my treatment at home. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your doctor about nucala at home. find your nunormal with nucala.

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the pattern that we have seen across the country for the last several days. peaceful demonstrations during the day evolved into chaos as the night fell. we have reporters across the country. nbc news correspondent ann thompson in new york and we have miguel and in atlanta nbc news correspondent blaine alexander. what do things look like in new york as the sun comes up? >> willie, this is an unbelievable scene. behind me you have seen macy's.

the store that welcomes the world and in it's front doors there is shattered glass. evidence of the looting that took place here last night. you can see they have boarded it up but before that happened looters got inside. there are reports that they set a small fire and they took lots of things but macy's was not the only store that they hit in harold square. if you come with me, we are here at urban outfitters. this was another store that was smashed and as you look in this window, which was broken thank you so much for removing the ladder, you can see the damage that was done inside. you can see the shattered glass, you can see the mannequins that have been turned over. this store was completely ransacked. >> oh my god. >> and then about 15 blocks north of here in rockerfeller center we had michael kors, kate spade, other stores were damaged and now today they're trying to

put the stores back together. it's an easier job -- it's easier said than done but something has been broken here more than glass. this is really, really discouraging. there was a curfew last night at 11:00. that curfew has been moved to 8:00 p.m. in an effort to control this but police say there were just gangs of young people running into areas like this smashing windows, ransacking the stores and then fleeing as soon as police came. they arrested some 200 people. several officers were injured. we'll see if the earlier curfew tonight makes a difference, willie. >> yeah, midtown hit hard there, soho, union square as well. ann thompson, thank you very much. let's move across the country to los angeles. miguel, what does it look like there this morning? >> well, here in hollywood businesses got boarded up anticipating that there would be looters in thisser and while

demonstrators came close to this area, for the most part it was unscathed but there was serious looting as police were moving across the area trying to catch the looters and keep them under control. overall here in los angeles it was a fairly quite day compared todays previous but one of the busiest freeways, the 405 was also shutdown by protestors for sometime. police had to move in with projectiles to clear them off of the freeway. l.a. was still bracing for what could be another 24 hours of unrest and protests in this city. the mayor has extended the curfew here across this area and in the bay area there's a curfew in place indefinitely so they're certainly anticipating more scenes of violence but for the most part it remains quite at least in this hour. we're expecting more protests across southern california in a few hours. we'll see what that is followed

by. willie back to you. >> we'll be back in to check on the protests. thank you so much. back to the east coast now to atlanta where we saw some of the most vivid images coming out of this outside of the cnn center. what does it look like there today. >> good morning to you. i have to say since the explosion of violence right here in downtown atlanta on friday the city and the protestors are due in large part to two things. one more rules and two more resources. so i'm standing here because this has become the central gathering spot. not only for protestors, people coming to have their voices heard but also for law enforcement. we have seen night after night as atlanta police officers and national guard troops have taken up the better part of this stretch right here in the middle of downtown atlanta. i know that you're speaking with the atlanta mayor coming up t n

soon. she instituted a 9:00 p.m. curfew and that played a role in calming down what we have been seeing here. atlanta police made about 95 arrests or so but say that for the large part people are following curfew. there's just a few small groups of people that had to be taken into custody. willie. >> all right. blaine alexander in atlanta. thank you very much. let's stay there in atlanta. joining us now is that city's mayor, mayor bottoms great to have you with us this morning. we all saw the images outside of the cnn center followed by leadership from you that said a protest has purpose emotioimplo people to go home. your police chief and members of the force were in the crowd talking to the protestors, hearing the protestors, why do you believe you've seen the violence go down so significantly since friday night in your city? >> i think we have been given

grace in our city based on our following a very simple plan and that was the play book president obama left along side the pandemic play book and that was the plan on 21st century policing and the major pillar is to build trust and legitimacy within our communities. so we don't have -- we try not to let our first encounter with our community be with the police officer chasing someone down the street but we have centers of hope in our community. we have at promise youth centers where police officers go in and volunteer. we have eliminated cash bail bonds in the city of atlanta. we have transition programs taking men out of prison and putting them to work and so many other things that we have done in this city to show people that we are by far not perfect but we try each and every day to do better and that's the reason. >> mayor bottoms, i'm wondering

just the impact of the president's approach so far or maybe i'll put it this way, if you could speak to president trump and maybe help him understand your community, what could you say that might help him communicate more effectively? >> what i would say to him is police be the leader that we need right now. we need a leader who acknowledges the hurt and the pain in our communities. we don't need a leader who is chastising us in the middle of this chaos. very much like if you are a parent, you have to first acknowledge to your child that you recognize why they are hurting. and that's what he refuses to do for this country and just to please ask him to please, please stop making it worse. and if he has an inability to do that to allow someone to speak on his behalf in the same way he

has allowed dr. fauci and dr. burks to establish credibility with the american people, allow someone to speak on his behalf to do that on behalf of our country. >> so let's actually explain that part if you could? why are the people hurting? could you explain to the president. >> there's so many layers of hurt that go back 400 years in this country. but when you see a black man being slaughtered on our streets it touches all of us in a way that is so difficult to articulate because there's so many layers of feelings here. there's fear. there's anger. there's frustration. there's hopelessness. and it doesn't feel like it's getting any better. and we can't make it better in an instant because this problem didn't start in an instant. we can at least commit in a very

tangible way to saying that we're going to do better. and we're going to keep trying to do better and we recognize that there's trauma in our communities. there's real psychological trauma in our communities that's not talking about and being addressed. >> two questions if you actually. one of the other factors before stemming into all the frustration that we have seen across the country and not just in your hometown is the coronavirus pandemic with the huge unemployment numbers, people being cooped up in their houses and upset.

could you give us an update in terms of what you're seeing in covid-19 infections in your city. are they on the rise? are they off? >> we are still having an increase in infections and not what we have seen a few weeks ago but still a steady increase. we just hit that and looking for another phase in our reopening. and specifically participated in protests. i'm going to have a covid-19 test this week because what i have seen in the past few days that i have been in police headquarters and out and about is that in the midst of all that is going on covid-19 has been forgotten and the reality is that our communities are still

sick. >> the issue that you mentioned a couple of minutes ago with black men being unjustly killed by police that is the issue sparked by the killing of george floyd that sparked these protests literally from coast-to-coast. it's a national problem that the nation says we must solve this problem. so it requires a national solution. how is that national solution

going to come? how do you see it -- how do you see this ending well if the president won't grapple with the issue at all. i think the immediate need is to have someone on his behalf that our communities have a reason to hurt right now. they include picking up the play book again that president obama left in 21st century policing. if you go into our west side community in atlanta there's an at promise youth center supported by corporations and philanthropic organizations in our city where you can walk in on any day and you see younger african american men that may have otherwise been on the corner in trouble interacting

with police officers, getting job skills, finishing their ged. those are the type things that we have to have in our communities throughout america but i think that the immediate need right now is for the president not to make it worse. and each time he opens his mouth he is making it worse and he cannot continue to do that and if he has an inability to control himself, this is what other leaders of good conscious should do on his behalf. >> we always give him the excuse but i don't think there's an excuse for this. i don't think he wants to do better. and much more straight ahead.

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we would meet with the president so i was meeting with him four times a week back a month or so ago. but as you promise notice the task force meetings have not occurred as often lately and my meetings with the president have been dramatically decreased. fauci also said he remained concerned about lifting lock down measures in areas where infection rates remained high. jonathan, this fits again in sort of the profile of this president. we have been following knowing him, it appears to me he has lost interest but there are some concerns if the coronavirus task force isn't being pushed aggressively moving forward, we

have perhaps a second wave still headed our way. >> so there's a few things at play here. they have not always seen eye to eye. and including at the task force briefings in front of the president. it started scaling them back and let's remember a couple of weeks ago the president wanted to he said allowed he was going to expand the task force entirely. he walked back off of that a little bit but really scaled it back. it's only meeting about once or twice a week now. the president does not often attend himself. dr. fauci's face time as he said has really dramatically increased and you hit upon obviously an important point, these events of the last few days, the killing of mr. floyd followed by the unrest in the streets is the first thing that sort of changed the subject.

certainly it's slowed in a lot of the countries the infections are on the rise. there's been up ticks in states that have begun the reopening process. there's big cities about to start taking the first steps. new york hopes to do so in a couple of weeks and there's concerns that it will rise again then and even if it does fade over the summer there's a real sense that it could come back and come back strongly this fall. the question is are we going to be ready for it. >> not to mention the concerns that public health officials voiced at these gatherings of people around the streets. a lot of them not wearing masks in the cities where we see the protests. sort of the main story that we're focussing on but is there some part of the white house based on what we know that before we saw the killing of george floyd and the protests

that follow already wanted to turn the takes. we moved on. is there some part of them that is relieved that the president can go out and in his own version of strength, the way he views strength go out and talk about law and order? about putting the military in the streets? about squashing the riots so that he does not have to talk about the pandemic which is on going? >> absolutely. that's exactly what is happening. the president has been eager to change the conversation for weeks. remember obamagate? a scandal he floated to try to connect president obama and vice president biden to the dealings with general flynn. he's been trying to eagerly change the campaign and attacking joe biden. and of course it was the economy. trying to push states to reopen knowing that the unemployment rate is so high. knowing he needs to reverse some of the numbers between now and november. he has really tried to put the

public health part of this on the backseat. look, work is still being done to come up with a vaccine for this by the end of the year and most optimistic timetable more likely sometime next year. that's still being done but right now there's very little the white house can do about the pandemic they feel. they want to focus on the economy and they want to focus on other things and right now with the events of the last week, the president is seeing opportunity as you say to project his version of strength and his campaign sees a cultural issue they can use to try to fire up his base, excite his voters and maybe try to swing over some frightened senior citizens or suburban voters that would be away from the president and might now be drawn back to him if they see him as the law and order commander and chief. and anything else other than covid-19. >> more on the president's awkward moment with the bible after a break.

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>> you want to change, you got to do it by yourself. >> even if i didn't make it down the pole, the statement would still be made. >> this movement is not going to stop. >> most teenagers get incarcerated. all because of your mouth. >> it's prison or death. >> never lose faith. keep the faith. >> we're going to keep demanding justice. a message to black america. don't expect nobody to open the door for you. >> can't wait for the leaders to make it better. we have to make it better. >> that was the trailer from hbo's emmy nominated one-woman film. "notes from the field" which explores racial inequality in america and the flawed justice

system. the actress who portrays all 19 real-life characters in the film, pulitzer prize nominated playwright and activist, anna devere smith joins us now. hbo will be rebroadcasting her critically acclaimed one-woman film, and it is also now available on demand. it is such a pleasure to have you on the show and such a terrible time for america. and i'm wondering what your thoughts are given all the messages that you've worked so hard to really deliver to your audience from your soul about the plight of black america and others. what your thoughts are right now about the state of things. >> well, i -- a lot of things, but i know i don't have all the time in the world so i want to say two things. and one is that this has a long history, the death of george floyd, the brutal beating has a long history.

throughout the 20th century, the naacp and many other black activist organizations fought to have anti-lynching legislation written into law. it never happened. it never happened throughout the entire century and finally, in about 15 years ago, senator landrieu led apology on the senate floor, but that never happened. so this is very deep. the brutality against people of color is very deep and, in fact, goes back to the brutality against the native americans in this country. the other thing that i want to talk about is the theater of last night. i think that the president has a great interest in abraham lincoln. as you know, he held a press conference at the lincoln memorial. st. john's is the church that abraham lincoln went to. pew 11 was his pew. when you go to st. john's episcopal church, there's a plaque at pew 11 that says

abraham lincoln walked across from the white house by himself every night during the civil war and sat in the back at that pew and prayed. those are the two things i want to bring afford. >> gene robinson, jump in. >> anna, as you look at the protests, i'm wondering if you're struck as i am by the nationwide scope of the protests that we've seen in the wake of the killing of george floyd. all 50 states, more than 100 cities, very diverse crowds. what do you take away from that? >> well, first of all, i think the word diverse is really important. in my work, i go out and talk to hundreds of people, write notes from the field, talk to 250 people to write twilight my play about the los angeles riots in 1992. i talked to over 300 people.

so if we were to go out into the crowd and ask people why they were there, they'd have a whole bunch of reasons. in los angeles, people -- some people said it was a riot. some said it was an uprising. some people said that it was a revolution. so that's number one is that the diversity is not news. and people's motivations are not the same. we tend to try to simplify that. i do think, as you say, the national scope of this is remarkable. you tell me, has anything like this happened since the murder of martin luther king? >> not that i can think of. i mean, that's the antecedent i come back to. and just in terms of how geographically widespread the protests have been and how numerous the protesters and how spontaneous it all was, that's what i come back to. this is different.

those were bigger riots. but not as many. not as many demonstrations as you're seeing now. >> it's willie geist. i want to ask you about bottling this moment. you've looked so carefully and you've written plays, pulitzer prize-nominated plays about these moments in history. you mentioned the l.a. riots. how do we take what we're seeing in the streets, the energy of these peaceful protests and turn it into change so that this moment doesn't pass so that it's not just a chapter in the book and we turn a page and go back to focusing on coronavirus which deserves a lot of our focus, but how do you make something out of all this energy we're seeing? >> well, i think you're absolutely right. the language has changed. i think we're back in 1992, we didn't hear as much about trauma. we didn't hear that word very much. we didn't hear words like

transgenerational trauma. we didn't hear the word pain as much as we hear it now. but we forget. i see these as flashes of interest in race in america and it goes away. to me, the most important thing right now is i think there must be a secret handshake between the criminal justice system and the police department because we just can't get at it. we can't shake that open. we can't take these people, we can't get them in jail. we can't convict them. and that's maybe what's so frustrating to people is there's something there. and we don't have privy to what it is. that's number one. number two, you know, i'm always going to make a call out for education and culture. bishop buddy yesterday was talking about the soul of the country being in turmoil. talking about this as a moral crisis. well, those of us in the humanities and those of us in the arts kind of stand around the outside and try to knock on the door of the republic to cause the people on the inside who know what that secret handshake is to do sbhg it. and then, you know, this moment, both in terms of coronavirus and

disproportionality between people of color who are dying and those who have advantages, you know, this is a moment where we should be looking at inequality and from all -- from many points of view, right? from many points of view. in medicine right now, it's -- we don't hear so much about it because people are on the front lines but i would say for the past 20 years in medicine there's been a discussion about the social causes of -- the social causes of some of the diseases that poor people tend to suffer from. so from doctors to spoken word artists, there's something to do. >> all right. anna devere smith, thank you so much. her emmy nominated film "notes from the field" -- >> we weren't nominated for an emmy. we were nominated for a critics choice award. thank you for giving us higher

praise than we actually have garnered. >> no problem at all. time now really quickly for final thoughts. jonathan lemire, you're looking at joe biden today? >> that's right. we saw yesterday, mika, the split screen, president trump standing in front of a church. joe biden in a church taking a knee, listening to community leaders. the former vice president is going to deliver a major speech this morning from philadelphia in which he is going to say, they just sent remarks, i promise you, i won't traffic in fear or division. i won't fan the flames of hate as he tries to draw a stark contrast from what we're seeing from the white house. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle live at nbc headquarters in new york. it is tuesday, june 2nd, and here's what's happening at this hour. more than one week has now passed since george floyd died on the str