opposite. there are stark videos and images going viral that are hitting people in a visceral way, and we're seeing how that's impacting americans and the coverage. >> all right, alexi mccammond, thank you. i will be reading axios am in a little bit. you too can sign up for the newsletter at signup.axios.com. that does it for me on this wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. the president held up the bible at st. john's church yesterday. i just wish he opened it once in a while instead of brandishing it. if he opened it, he could have learned something. they're all called to love one another as we love ourselves. it's really hard work. but it's the work of america. donald trump isn't interested in doing that work. instead, he's preening and sweeping away all the guardrails that have long protected our democracy, guardrails that have help make possible this nation's path to a more perfect union pay

the union that constantly requires reform and rededication. and, yes, the protests from voices that are mistreated, ignored, left out or left behind. but it is a union, a union worth fighting for. and that's why i'm running for president. >> joe biden speaking yesterday in philadelphia. >> you know, mika, it's interesting. he started talking about holding up that bible and what we've seen over the past 24 hours condemnation from, really, across the political spectrum from -- >> mocking. >> -- religious leaders. the pope talking about the protests and looking at how things are going in the united states and saying, you can't continue to -- to turn a blind eye to what's going on this america and claim to protect

life. pat robertson last night or yesterday talking about critically the president's actions saying he had to start showing compassion. james langford, a republican senator saying he reads the bible every day and he's never seen anybody in his life hold up a bible like that. i've got to say as a guy raised in a southern baptist church who went to church about four or five times a week for, you know, the first 21 years of my life, i've got to say, i grew up in the culture, i've never saw anybody hoist a bible forward as a political prop. you even have the head of the church he was standing in front of saying it was disgraceful what he was doing. and that's starting to show up, mika, in the polls, the polling coming out showing that the overwhelming majority of americans are opposed by this president talking about when the looting starts the shooting

starts. talking about thugs constantly. talking about thugs constantly. clearing a imagine wipath with if you represent us, whatever agency you represent, if you represent us, stop lying to us about using tear gas. we saw it, it happens, we all saw it in realtime. >> and you did that to american citizens. >> the global village saw people in that time with their heads thrown back and their friends pouring water in their eyes. garrett haake yesterday talked about it as well. you used tear gas. you used tear gas. you used pepper spray. you used rubber bullets to clash with peaceful protesters. we've got the tape. it's all on tape, marco rubio. it's all on tape, republicans.

it's all on tape. we saw it happening in realtime. stop lying. your lies have already been revealed. so you actually have peaceful protesters who were there who had tear gas used against them, brute force used against them. rubber bullets used against them. i'm so ashamed that an australian cameraman and reporter were brutalized in the park, the president's park. hit. i'll show you, by the way, one of our closest and oldest allies, a country that has had their troops along our troops in fox holes for over a hundred years, they have fought with us in every war. and yet members of the press being targeted constantly. constantly. peaceful protests being broken up and the president thinking he's proving a point. this law and -- i mean, for a photo op? let's show this again, mika.

i just want to show these poll numbers and show it's not working. >> no. >> it's not 1968. and if somebody said yesterday if it were 1968 looking at the parallels, donald trump would be in big trouble. and i've got to say, mika, what's so surprising to me with the brutality surprising to me, the head of the department of defense, hey, james mattis, you want to wake up from your slumber and start offending somebody, because you're pissing off a lot of people, james mattis. your silence is pissing off a lot of people. we have a secretary of defense who actually said he thought that the president were going to inspect troops and they were going to inspect a bathroom. now, that is secretary esper's worst excuse since he said his dog ate his constitution. that his -- it's despicable if he were misled by that, by the president of the united states, then he should resign.

secretary esper, you should resign this morning if you were used as a political plot. you are military, mr. secretary. you're military. the men and women of our military are being used as political props. and guess what? they're not good political props because we have separated civilians from the military for about 240 years and it's worked out pretty well for us. if you think that a washed up reality tv show host is going to change that reality, let me show you these poll numbers. this is from reuters yesterday. 33% of americans, only 1 in 3 americans support the chaos that this man is spreading across america. when the looting starts, the shooting starts. calling protesters thugs as much

as he possibly can. and then, again, mika, you know, it's the low point of his presidency so far. a lot of people thought the low point of his presidency and they said so, was a week or two ago when he was actually terrorizing a widower who was begging him to stop using his dead wife's memory to try to stage a political attack. and george will wrote this week, he said, he may have looked at that and thought that was the low point of donald trump's presidency. they don't know donald trump. you don't understand. there is no low point. we think that what we saw yesterday, the day before was the low point. there is no low point. >> this is the truth. >> and that is why, that is why, republicans, as you blindly go -- now, some criticized donald trump. >> just a few, thankfully.

>> a few did. god bless them, because they need to do that, not only for the country, not only in defense of the constitution, but for their own sake. for the sake of their constituents, for their place in history so they won't be seen as going along this extraordinarily frightening display of raw power and just sheer stupidity. raw power combined with sheer stupidity, that's what happened earlier this week. and americans aren't buying it. donald trump is not playing three dimensional chess. he's eating the chess pieces and it's not going well. >> so along with joe, willie and me, we have white house reporter for "the associated press" jonath jonathan lemire. nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of kasie d.c. on msnbc on sunday nights, kasie hunt. and msnbc contributor seana

thomas. great to have you back with us, seana. >> willie, you look at the numbers from the reuters poll, so many people have been saying law and order would work for donald trump, it's going to be just like 1968. here's the problem, donald trump is the incumbent. this is all happening on donald trump's watch. when he the first night started talking about shooting people, president of the united states is calling protesters thugs, it's -- it's beginnigining thin even the pope's telling him to cut it out. republicans are telling him, some republicans, to cut it out. this is not working. and the biggest surprise to me, willie, is i know that they're stupid. a lot of these people around the president are stupid, that's the only reason they're there because they will do whatever he tells them to do. what i didn't realize is that some of them are so stupid that they were actually congratulating themselves after donald trump started a riot in

the president's park, in lafayette park, so he could have a photo op and awkwardly, weirdly, bizarrely hold a bible like nobody has ever held a bible before like in a political event. it's just bizarre. holding it upside down at one point. >> yeah, white house advisers, joe, were calling that photo and that moment a, quote, iconic. that was the quote a senior adviser gave to axios two nights ago. they say that was an iconic home. the iconic moment was him going to a church that looters had attempted to burn down the night before, not warning the church he was coming, not talk together dioceses, not warning anyone else that he would be there, not going in to survey the damage, not offering prayer, but holding up a bible that, when asked if it was his bible, he said it's a bible. and how did he get there? he cleared the park. he had bill barr take a stroll

through that park to assess. "washington post" is reporting that william barr ordered that park to be cleared. again, with the use of chemical agents, with the use of flash bangs, with the use of rubber bullets. and the nationwide protest now showing no sign of letting up. neither the president's threat of military force nor curfews keeping protesters from taking to the streets well into the night, include agent lafayette square near the white house where force was used, as i said, the day before to clear the president's way to st. john's you are church f church for that photo op. this is video from los angeles last night where at least 100 protesters appeared to be peaceful for arrested for violating the 6:00 p.m. curfew in that city. there were some incidents of looting, but nothing like previous nights that we've seen. this video shows looters breaking into a pharmacy while peaceful protesters were gathering just around the corner. we also saw tense protests

outside home of los angeles mayor eric garcetti as more than a thousand people gathered there. mayor garcetti appeared at a protest in downtown los angeles where he kneeled in the middle of a prayer circle. meanwhile, new york mayor bill de blasio says moving the curfew from 11:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. helped to curve vandalism and looting in new york. protesters there also defied the curfew. thousands walking across the manhattan bridge from brooklyn but were blocked from entering manhattan by a large police premise. after a standoff, protesters eventually turned back peacefully. seana, what we saw last night was much different across the country than we've seen in previous nights from the was much less looting, there was much less violence. that's a good step in the right direction, but when you take all this in total, the president's approval on this is 33% on his handling of these protests, of this moment in american history. that's below the floor that we've always talked about among

his supporters of 38%, 39%. even people who support him more broadly don't like the way he's handled the last week or so. >> no. and i think one of the things joe was talking about that photo op, when i see that photo op, i see the moments before he got to the church when he's flanked by his staff, by the people that work for him. and there's one black woman in that group and she looked like a secret service agent. and what that tells me is even if we thought the president was capable of rising to this moment, i don't know who around him can help him figure out how to get out of that 33% you just saw. i don't know who around him he can listen to if he has that ability to listen, who he can listen to who can actually communicate to him directly what those people outside the park, outside the gates of lafayette park are trying to say. he clearly doesn't hear them. but i see that photo and i don't

see anybody that looks like me. so i don't know how he will ever figure this out beyond what we have already seen. >> yeah. good point. jonathan lemire, we're looking into what happened with that, quote, photo op where peaceful protesters were forcefully moved away. and it appeared william barr had his fingerprints on it. and i guess the president actually was talking about activating the attorney general. is that what he meant? >> that's part of it, mika. certainly william barr is key to what the white house wants to do right now in terms of quelling these protests. but let's take a half step back. the protests began a few nights before when the president was rushed to that bunker underneath the white house. he hated the news coverage that tame ca came from that, particularly since he's been trying to draw this contrast with joe biden, joe biden hiding in his basement

while the president is the man of action who has been traveling the country again. he hated the news coverage of that. he was upset, he'd look out the white house windows and see the disturbances in lafayette park, see the fires that rose there over the weekend and wanted to come up with something. ivanka trump, his daughter, was key to this plan. in fact, she's the one who brought along that bible in her handbag and gave it to her father for that photo op outside the church. it came, you of course, after, as willie was describing, that park was cleared with tear gas. that park was cleared forcefully by federal law enforcement. and we've seen a real rebuke from that. not just from religious figures, but from political figures on both sides of the aisle. there have been some republicans that spoke out against that decision. there have been a number of governors who have said -- told the president that they don't want the national guard. they don't want federal law enforcement in their cities, in their states with these protests. and we're reporting this morning at least for now the white house is backing off that idea.

that the white house is taking a few steps back away from the plan to send the military to american cities to try to crack down on these protests which the president believes and the polling suggests he might be very wrong here but the president still believes would be good for his re-election chances. that show of strength, that show of law of order, dispatching the military. we even saw him tweet yesterday, silent majority, a phrase he's used before, but in this case is a clear callback to what richard nixon did in late 1960s and early 1970s. >> the only problem with that is the silent majority actually means you have a silent majority. here you have a vocal majority opposing the president. you've got the overwhelming majority of americans supporting protesters in the street. only 27%, i believe it is, are opposing the protesters and what they're doing in the street. only 20%, okay. and then alex tells me only 20%. and then, again -- here we go.

73% of americans. 73% of americans, that's, again, not the silent majority. they'll be very loud and boisterous majority. support the protests following george floyd's death. 73%. 20% -- only 20% oppose that. the numbers are terrible for donald trump. and, seana, i've got to say, there are times in american history, there are times in the civil rights march that it takes heinous images, particularly heinous images across television sets to wake up who martin luther king called white moderates, to wake up white americans who were detached from the civil rights struggle. to wake up and get moving. it happened, of course, in the birmingham church bombing. it happened after selma.

it happened, you know, it happened other times in the civil rights movement in the 1960s to wake white americans up. there is no doubt that despite all the heinous images we have seen of innocent black men being killed over the years, that the george floyd tragedy so shocked the consciousness of white americans that it appeared that those white moderates, those white americans are finally waking up. and you see it in those poll numbers. >> i think you see it in those poll numbers, but i think the other thing we see about the support in the streets for change, for dealing with systemic racism, i mean, you just said before that -- that the people in the streets are against trump. and i think that is to a certain extent true. but it's -- it is so much more than that. and it is good that when i was out and just kind of walking

around the streets of d.c. yesterday before the curfew that there were white people, black people, hispanic people, everybody. everybody's out there and it's not just about the president. it's about -- >> no. >> this is a symbol of something so much larger. it's larger than policing. it is how do we get at this initial original sin of this country that you can see play out because with the coronavirus, you can see play out in our economy, you can see it in so many ways. people are trying to -- to wrestle with that, to get with that. and when the president and the attorney general barr orders that park, lafayette park cleared so he can have that photo op, he actually brings the cameras to that. he actually by doing that it may seem like it's a law and order play to use the terms of george wallace and richard nixon, but it was a play that showed america, because the cameras are there and because our cameras are admittedly drawn to

conflict, that he set this up as him against all of those people. that is why his poll numbers -- that is part of why his poll numbers are there. there are a lot of reasons why his poll numbers are there. but he -- he missed, for once, because the one thing we have all said he's good at, does he understand how to manipulate the media. he thought he was doing it this time and it backfired. >> backfired in a big way. no, these profits aren't about donald trump. if i said that i misspoke i'll blame it on the early morning hour. but this isn't about donald trump. this is about 400 years of racism. this is about not just policing, this is about what happened to trevone martin. it is also about what happened to eric garner. it's about what's happened time and time again across america. and americans, white americans, black americans, hispanic americans, asian americans, all

americans understand if this is what we're seeing with cell phones, what are we not seeing -- >> thank you. >> -- when there's not a cell phone that is covering a police officer in north charleston shooting a black man in the back repeatedly? what are we not seeing when we're seeing a police officer and three of his cohorts strangle a man and watch life escape from him over 9 1/2 minutes some that's what we're seeing. on iphones, on smartphones. how -- how much more is that happening when the cameras aren't there? when the body cameras of the cops are turned off. which, by the way, if you're a cop and you turn off your body camera, know what, your presumption of innocence is gone. >> that is one of the core questions in terms of what this is all about. what else is there?

because we know there's more. we know this is something we have to address as a country. and i am just baffled that you can see that this president doesn't seem to know what it's about. but what's even more confusing, ridiculous, is that his team, his people cannot take him better. they can try, but they can't do it. they can get him to walk to a church, but they can't even get him to hold the bible correctly. they can't get him to follow through, read scripture, say something, make a prayer. it is impossible to make this president better. and at a time like this, the void in leadership is painful for this country. kasie hunt, there were some republicans who came out and finally criticized the president. they said what happened was wrong during that photo op and the forceful way that the protesters were dealt with and pushed away. and they were peaceful.

there was some republicans who supported the president and then there were others that were late for lunch. explain that. >> i think this is part of why joe mentioned that republicans and the president and his team are now trying to say that tear ther gas was not used in lafayette square. we know from our reporting garrett make and others in the square there were without question chemical agents used in the square. this was something that did get negative reactions from republicans, including susan collins, james langford, ben sasse. now late last night, those republicans, subject to a presidential tweet saying, no, this is not actually what happened. that's why this is important that the president is trying to change this narrative that contradicts all of our actual reporting so that he can try to protect himself.

but the broader question of whether he is providing the right leadership in this moment, whether what played out is what we as a country needed in such a time of crisis was not a question that many republicans that i talked to on capitol hill had any interest in addressing yesterday. watch, i talked to more than a dozen of them. senator mcconnell, was what the president did last night the right thing to do? senator, nice to see you. was what the president did last night right? senator, was what the president did last night with the peaceful protesters outside the white house the right thing to do? >> pardon? >> what the president did, the peaceful protesters that were dispersed with tear gas he walked across the street with the church was that the right thing to do. >> didn't really see is it. >> senator, was what the president did yesterday at st. john's, was that appropriate? was it an abuse of power.

>> senator roberts, was what the president did last night at sainton's appropriate? was clearing the protesters an abuse of power? i'm sorry? >> i don't have any comment. >> you don't have any comment on what happened at the white house last night? >> you're asking the white house -- they have a right to protest? >> i [ inaudible ]. >> senator inslee, are you concerned at all about what happened at the white house last night? >> sorry, i'm late for lunch. >> senator blackburn, do you have any concerns about what unfolded at the white house last night? senator portman, do you think what we saw last night at the white house -- >> i'm late for lunch. >> senator cassidy, was what we saw at the white house last night an abuse of power? >> i didn't -- i'm sorry. >> come on. >> wow. >> god. >> kasie, i don't know that i've seen anything that captures the last 3 1/2 years of republicans

under president trump like that. those, of course, are many republicans who revere the constitution, rightly so, who talk about protecting the constitution. and you had a group of protesters exercising their first amendment rights who were dispersed. that's a pretty easy call and you could not get an answer except for a handful of them that put out statements. >> i should note, willie, that there were a couple of senators who stopped there and who offered comments that were different. lisa murkowski said it didn't reflect the america that she knows. we talked to senator rick scott of florida, josh holly of missouri, they offered more involved and thoughtful comments about what happened. but think you could see that there this did, in fact, over and over and over again happen. and you're right that, you know, a lot of what covering capitol hill has been during the trump presidency has been getting those members of congress to react to what their president is

doing. i think it frustrates them because, you know, they feel like they're doing or should be getting recognition for the work that they are doing. but it's really all about this president. but the reality is, and i think the reason why that came across in such a stark way is that the stakes have never been higher here. i mean, they just -- they never have. and, you know, i think that it really makes -- it was a very sharp, certainly, moment i think on the hill that underscores the difficulty that this president has put the entire country in. and, you know, members of his party who do speak out, they end up on the opposite end of nasty tweets. they feel like they'll lose support at home. so what they're choosing to do instead is to try to stay silent and avoid the cameras so that he doesn't see them on tv. that's become the solution for them. >> hey, republican senators, worry more about the united

states constitution than nasty tweets. i can tell you you'll survive nasty tweets. hey, so jonathan lemire, come on! come on! i think you can -- i think you can put up with a few nasty tweets in defense of the united states constitution. in defense of our military men and women. you should never on treated at political props. jonathan lemire, i got to say, the silence from all those republicans when asked to defend donald trump was damning for good reason, because what he did was abhorrent. what he did many religious leaders are saying -- because they're right -- was blasphemous. what he was saying we have former chairman of the joint chiefs saying we are at an inflection point. men and women in the military horrified by how the military is being used right now.

i mean, it's really unbelievable. and you have ron johnson saying he didn't see it. ron, this is your job. if peaceful protesters are being gassed and religious leaders are saying the president used the word of jesus christ in a blasphemous way, you probably should focus ton a little bon i more, buddy. don't know exactly what you're doing. maybe you're studying burisma or something like this while america is in this state. but i thought the most cynical, of course, statement came later from mitch mcconnell, jonathan lemire, where he said he's just not going to critique -- he's not going to critique other people, and yet there he was just absolutely bashing barack obama for making a -- just making a pretty mild statement a couple weekends ago. so is mitch mcconnell -- is

mitch mcconnell only critique black presidents? doesn't critique white presidents? is this the mcconnell rule that we're going to be using from now on? >> i believe senate majority leader mcconnell told former president obama to shut his mouth, keep his mouth closed, or something to that effect. >> uh. >> which obviously upset a lot of people. yeah. he, of course, as we've discussed on the show repeatedly and as kasie knows better than anyone, that's how senate majority leader mcconnell handles the president. he weighs in what he wants and often he plays dumb, ignores, has a blind eye and he tries to stay out of it. he's far more concerned about preking his senate majority than the president of the united states. but he knows not to cross the president often because of how popular donald trump remains with the public base. but this is a crisis for the senate republicans, certainly. they know that things are trending against them right now. and the party as a bhoel whowho

think that's why we seen a few voices come out against the president yesterday. but there's a sense of the white house just grasping here, flail about for some sort of strategy as to how to handle this. they are surprised. there's been a swift -- in the hours after that photo op the other day, they already cut a campaign commercial, there was slow motion footage, they put music under it, it felt like an episode of the apprentice. >> wait, wait, wait, wait a second. hold on. jonathan, are you telling me that they're trying to turn people's attention to this moment some they actually -- they're still thinking this moment was a good idea politically? i mean, this -- listen, here's the difference between them and micha the campaign in 1988. they knew right away they shouldn't put a helmet on him in a tank. but you're telling me trump's people are making commercials based around this extraordinarily dangerous,

horrifying, and yet somehow stupid moment? >> that commercial's already out. joe, there's a video that the white house itself, therefore, taxpayer funded, came out that evening. it was -- >> wow. >> -- in rotation on their website on social media. in the last 24 hours they have backed off of it some. there has been a sense this moment got away from them. that it played out differently. >> really? >> did you guys realize that? >> this is -- >> duh. >> this is pretty good political insight here. there was a sense i talked to someone yesterday involved in the decision who said at minimum they should have moved earlier to clear the park when it was less crowded, when it wasn't so close to the president speaking. let's remember, the president began this by talking in the rose garden claiming that he was a friend to the protesters. literally at that moment, protesters were being cleared from the park and the flash bangs could be heard and then were shaking the west wing

windows. they understand this moment did not play quite as well as they would have liked. that said, the president, and we're seeing the polls are against him, we are seeing members of his own party, some of them breaking against him. he still believes this projection of strength or what he perceives as strength is the right thing to do to not just quell the violence in the streets and cities across america, but for his electoral future. right now, though, it's hard not to see the stark contrast between the image he's presenting and what vice president biden is doing who spoke yesterday in philadelphia about the need to listen to fellow americans, the need for nonviolence on both sides of the protests. and, of course, who went to a church this week, didn't just pose outside one with a bible, but went inside a church and even took a knee. >> and, listen, we're going to good to minneapolis in a second. i want to follow up on one thing you said about republican criticism of president trump. of course, they've been worried about tweets, they've been

worried about their primary challengers, those are the two arguments we've heard mostly about high republicans won't speak out against president trump in moments that call for it. ben sasse who spoke out strongly about clearing the plaza for the photo op, clearing the lafayette square for the photo op in front of the church has been quiet for about a year or so about president trump. and the reason we understood was that because he had a primary challenge. somebody who was criticizing him for occasionally criticizing donald trump. he went silent. well, three weeks ago ben sasse defeated that challenger by 50 points, 5-0. he won by 50 points. so the point here is speaking out occasionally, not gratuitously, but occasionally when you feel it's right against president trump is actually not going to hurt you in your primary. you may actually end up winning by 50 points. >> so you're saying ben sasse may now start actually speaking

out for things that people thought ben sasse would normally speak out for? >> well, he had his primary three weeks ago, he won by 50 points, so now it's safe to step back out. but other republicans who probably take some lessons from his 50-point victory. let's go to minneapolis, that's where we find nbc news correspondent gabe gutierrez. gabe, what did it look like last night as compared to the last week or so and what does it look like there this morning? >> reporter: hi there, willie. good morning. over the past several nights it's actually been quite peaceful here in minneapolis, several dozen protests in different locations. last night was so exception. as you can see behind me, this is where george floyd took his last breaths, now nine days ago. but here in minneapolis and in the state of minnesota, the department of human rights has just filed a civil rights charge and opened a sweeping civil rights investigation into the minneapolis police department. the first of its kind in the department's history.

and that says they're going to review over the last ten years any discriminatory practices within the department. the governor says that it's meant to root out what he calls systemic racism in the department. now, willie, yesterday i spoke with donald williams. he was an eyewitness to what happened to george floyd here. he's one of the voices, very passionate voices that you hear in that now viral video asking police to get -- get -- get the knee off of george floyd's neck. it was a very passionate interview that i had with him. he's still processing what he saw. take a listen to donald williams. >> at the time george was on the floor panting for his life, asking for forgiveness, calling for his mom saying he can't breathe. >> could you believe what you were seeing? >> no. it was like in a twilight zone. it was like something that was unreal.

>> should knows other officers face charges? >> yeah. they killed the human being. >> reporter: and the main officer in this case, derek chauvin, has been charged, as you know, with third degree murder and second degree manslaughter. the floyd family attorney ben crump now says that he expects the other three officers in this case to face charges by tuesday. that is when a funeral is scheduled in houston. floyd's hometown where he grew up. a public memorial is scheduled here in minneapolis tomorrow, willie. >> all right. gabe gutierrez where he has been for a week or so. thanks very much. mika. still ahead on "morning joe," we've got the speaker of the house nancy pelosi joining us for a live interview. plus, nbc's courtney kube is used to reporting on u.s. military missions overseas. now she's following them here at home. she joins us on that.

and, defense secretary mark esper's role in that embarrassing photo op. as we go to break, more from joe biden's speech yesterday in philadelphia. >> you know, we're a nation in pain. we must not let our pain destroy us. we're a nation enraged, but we can't allow our rage consume us. we're a nation that's exhausted. but we will not allow our exhaustion to defeat us. as president, it's my commitment to all of you to lead on these issues and to listen because i truly believe in my heart of hearts we can overcome. look, i look at the presidency as a very big job. and nobody will get it right every time. and i won't either. but i promise you this. i won't traffic in fear and

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♪ all right. live look at the white house. 43 past the hour. joining us now, nbc news national security and military correspondent courtney kube. courtney, you interviewed defense secretary mark esper about all of this. is he really sticking to his story that this was advance work to secure some bathroom? >> so, yeah. he said that when he left the white house monday night with the president, this was after the rose garden address, that he was going to do two things. to review the national guard troops who were there on duty

and then to look at the damage. he specifically mentioned in this phone call with me that there was some extensive damage and vandalism to this national park service building. it's a restroom facility. he said it was one of the most visible signs of the damage that was done in the protests on sunday night. now, i should say this bathroom facility is right near st. john's church. and a pentagon spokesperson called me after our story posted and said he knew he was going to see the church as well. what's clear here is he did not know he was being taken to the church to be part of this photo op where the president would then stand there and hold up a bible. it's also very clear that he didn't know that the protesters who were there in lafayette park would be cleared with this chemical agent, whether it was tear gas, pepper spray, whatever, and these aggressive tactics to make way for the delegation to come through.

>> hey, courtney, it's willie. many people in washington and people with eyes and ears not necessarily believing secretary esper's explanation as the secretary of defense that he had no idea where he was going. what did he think was happening exactly as he was being swept in nao this large group? wasn't briefed on the way? he wasn't told at all ahead of time, just said pack up, we're going for a stroll? >> yeah, i mean he said that he was going to thank the national guard soldiers who were there outside the white house standing duty and that he thought that along the way they would see some of the damage. but he insists that he didn't really know what all they were going to see when they left the white house monday night. he really in the interview he really praised the national guard soldiers, the men and women who, there on the front lines in d.c. throughout the country who were responding to this civil unrest saying that, you know, these men and women were for weeks and weeks they were assigned to the covid response.

and then it seems like just the next day we said, hey, turn around and, don, you're right here because now you have to respond to this civil unrest. so he praised them. he also was adamant about the fact that this really say national guard mission as opposed to an active duty or title 10 mission. he said they have ample number of national guard soldiers and airmen throughout the country to respond to this. i was also really struck during the interview, willie, he had very strong language about the george floyd death. he said that the police absolutely have to be held accountable and that this is horrible. and he defended the right of americans to protest their first amendment right to freedom of speech. but he said, it did not devolve into violence that we've seen on some of the streets of america in the past several days. he also said one of the questions that i asked him was about monday night there were

reports of u.s. military helicopters flying low and fast in d.c. we've been trying to get to the bottom of exactly what was happening there. he said that he directed the army to open an inquiry into exactly what that was. who ordered those helicopters to be flying so low over the protests and what the overall mission was there, willie. >> all right. nbc's courtney kube, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. >> thank you, courtney. >> i have to say, willie, there have been so many things about that day, about that afternoon that were jarring. we expect certain bad actors to behave the way that they acted that afternoon. i will say, though, one of the most jarring images from that day outside of protesters being brutalized, australian cameramen and reporters being brutalized, peaceful protesters being brutalized, one of the most jarring images is the secretary of defense lining up for a photo

op in front of a church where the president's holding a bible. it is -- i mean, there's a reason why mike mullen became the first former joint chief chairman to criticize a sitting commander and chief. he's right, this is an inflection point. i was -- i was greatly honored to be able to represent the first congressional district of florida, which had, you know, nas pensacola, tindel, whiting, i grew up around military people. a lot of retired navy -- navy military retirees taught me in high school at pensacola catholic high. admirals and generals helped walk me through so many things while i was a sitting member of congress. they were all, like -- they --

it was sacrosanct. you didn't mix politics and military service. i guaranteed there are a lot of retired admirals and retired generals, a lot of enlisted men and women, a lot of people of all ranks, republicans and democrats alike, that were horrified to see the death at a gross, shoddy, some religious leaders would say blasphemous photo op where the park had to be cleared of peaceful protesters. >> well, that probably tells you something that he went on the record with courtney and carol lee in their nbc story to say i didn't know where we were going. clearly he knew that this photo op was bad, that he should not have been in that photo op and he wanted to reach out to

somebody on the record and say, i didn't know we were going to sort of cover himself and say i was led into this photo op that i didn't want to be in. you can read the story and decide for yourself if you believe that the secretary of defense really had no idea what was happening. it's a good thing if he wanted to go talk to the national guard troops. but the idea that he was just being led around by the nose and had no idea where he was going defies credibility to some people, kasie. and when you look at that photo op, you wonder what was the goal exactly? when you look at the collection there of people. when you have president trump, his press secretary, his chief of staff, kevin mckarcarthy, th attorney general, secretary of defense, unclear exactly what they were trying to project there. he didn't go into the church. they didn't pray, they didn't dony of the thindo any of the things that you would normally do by visiting a church, other than it was a disgrace that somebody attempted to burn this place down.

>> of course it was. the history in that schurchurch irreplaceable. it's where abraham lincoln went in the middle of the civil war. he couldn't go inside the church because it was board up and "the new york times" is reporting that they had that conversation. but i think we should be really clear about what's happening here. the president wanted that visual of him striding towards the church. and there is a photograph from doug mills of the "new york times." i don't know if we have it available, but it shows him making that walk. and it's kind of illuminated in this way. that was the photograph that the president's supporters seized on immediately and said this is a demonstration of law and order. but, you know, this all backfired on them because of the way they treated the protesters for all of the reasons we have laid out here. and it simply does not align with, you know, american values, the constitution, the first amendment. and so what you saw in the following 24 hours has been a

scramble to try and rewrite what happened. and this has come out in bits and pieces. and it's -- i think the critical pieces of it are the attempts to say that there were no chemical agents used, the park police coming out and saying we didn't use tear gas. that is an attempt to, you know, essentially say we didn't do this thing you accuse us of doing. the second thing was bill barr coming out to say i made it decision to clear this and it was supposed to happen earlier but it doesn't, et cetera, et cetera, trying to take responsibility away from the president. but also from esper who, of course, is the secretary of defense charged with overseeing our military, and he's the third piece of this saying, well, i had no idea, right? that is a cohesive attempt to rewrite the history of what we saw play out live on television. i just think americans, you know, can decide for themselves, you know, do they believe the story that was told before their very eyes on television or do they believe this revised version of history?

but that seems to be what's playing out here? >> well, thank you so much, kasie hunt, we greatly appreciate it. they are, of course, lying when they say tear gas wasn't used. they're lying when they're trying to spin this. reports from inside the white house said the president was outraged when it was report that'd ran down to a bunker over the weekend. as jonathan lemire reported. >> the video evidence of this has ricocheted around the world. everyone saw it. >> and so if this doesn't make any sense to you, then just look at that time through this perspective. donald trump was horrified that his supporters who -- who he tried to proclaim himself to be tough guy ran down into a bunker while protests were raging outside. now, let me just say if there are protests outside of white house gates, we do not want the president of the united states sitting upstairs eating pretzels watching espn. we want the president of the

united states, the commander and chief, the leader of the free world, down in a bunker. no shame with that and you don't have to have your people beat up peaceful protesters to prove -- >> that's shameful. >> see, that's the shameful part of it. >> that's actually cowardice. >> can we show donald trump marching across with his parade of white advisers. you are so right, shawna, this picture paints -- you have a black woman who appears to be secret service, everybody else around donald trump is white. which, of course, suggests, as you said, that he does not have anybody around him that can even help him begin to put context around the protests that we've been seeing over the past several weeks. but this is a guy who even yesterday said he has done more for black americans than any president since abraham lincoln.

that might come as a surprise, though, to those who were being called thugs and come to a surprise to black americans, the majority of whom adults, the majority of whom don't have a job right now. >> yeah. i mean, i think one of the quotes that he had, i'm going to look at my pad of paper here in the rose garden speech was he said we have one beautiful law and once that is restored, we will help you. and what i hear when he says that is but law was restored, we were -- things were lawful. and then a police officer stepped on someone's neck for nine minutes and killed them and people got into the streets. why weren't you helping us while things were still lawful? the only way to sort of -- i think a lot of people believe that the only way to get the attention that they need to get to try to figure out how to make changes in policing in cities,

which is one small part of a much larger issue, is to take to those streets. i also think thinking about courtney's interview with secretary esper, he is trying to clean it up because he also has a duty of leadership. i understand and am sympathetic to the idea of chain of command that's throughout our military and throughout our law enforcement. i get it. he has to follow his president. but he also has to lead his military, which is made up of not just white people, but minorities and people trying to, one, protect the country, but, two, internally probably struggling with how they see everything that's goes on. and he is leading, the secretary of defense is leading a military, which is one of the first institutions in the united states, to actually actively integrate. there is a history here that by, you know, and i think that is part of why he is trying to clean this up. but by not being clear about what is happening in this

country, you're not honoring that history of the military or many of the people who are -- who are working for you, who are trying to do the right thing and who will -- who will follow orders. but who are hoping they don't have any unlawful orders to have to decide whether to follow or not. >> we're going to have much more on this coming up. we'll also circle back to the other life and death story racking the nation. covid-19. new details on that front straight ahead on "morning joe."

♪ ♪ ♪ you've been reluctant to comment on the words and actions of the u.s. president. but we do have donald trump now calling for military action against protesters. we saw protesters teargassed yesterday to make way for a photo op. i'd like to ask you about that and if you don't comment about that, what message do you think you're sending?

>> we all watch in horror and consternation what's going on in the united states. it is a time to pull people together, but it is a time to listen. >> so that was canadian prime minister justin trudeau at a loss for words for 21 seconds to be exact when asked about president trump's use of tear gas on protesters to make way for a photo op. and, willie, that reminded me of several moments when i was asked to stand up in law school than answer a question. >> no, nope, that never happened. >> and professor pearson -- >> ever in your life. >> professor pearson's class. but, what's happening, willie,

this morning is really an early afternoon across -- now extraordinary. the protests in paris. >> all around the world. >> in amsterdam. >> massive. >> all around the world, protests in memory of george floyd are just so inspiring and shows that there are a lot of -- >> and so very sad. >> -- people across the world who were awakened by what happened in minneapolis on that street corner and are one with the american people, are one with the overwhelming majority of americans who support those protesters out in the street demanding justice not just for george floyd and the police officers who stood by and watched him struggle and die over 9 1/2 minutes, but also, of course, for black men and women and others in this country who have been treated shabbily for

far too long. >> you couldn't help as an american but be moved by the images we saw in the streets. i mean, paris. paris, france, the streets filled with people marching, demonstrating in honor of the memory of george floyd. a man who was living in minneapolis until nine days ago when he died under the knee of a minneapolis police officer. as you said, amsterdam plazas full across europe. you had these european capitals, these european cities marching in honor of our country, of the ideal of our country. and it was incredibly moving to the point where when i first saw those crowds i thought, oh there are must be something else going on there. no, it was for us. it was for us. and it was for justice. and it speaks to what you guys said earlier, which is that this is not about donald trump. this is about justice and they're seeing similar things in their own countries. and george floyd has now given them a moment, given them a platform and given them a time

to speak about the injustice they see in their countries. george floyd, the man you're seeing right there, who should be alive today but is not, his memory is being lifted up not just in the streets of america, but around the world. and it is extraordinary. >> all of that in memory of a man from minnesota who has not only awakened a nation, but awakened a world to racism, and as willie said, mika, not just in the united states, but racism that is all too often rampant across europe. >> along with joe, willie and me, we have former u.s. senator now an nbc news and msnbc political analysts claire mccaskill who is absolutely eager to talk about the republican response that we saw and didn't see. and ceo of the robinhood foundation, best selling author and u.s. army combat veteran wes moore is with us. along with pulitzer prize

winning editorial writer for "the washington post" and msnbc contributor janua contributor jonathan joins us. and robert costa, he's the moderator of washington week on pbs. >> bob costa, get us up to date. what's the latest? what are you hearing from the white house? what are you hearing from the hill? >> on capitol hill, there's not any kind of movement on major reform on policing, on criminal justice. you see house democrats and speaker pelosi keen to pursue legislation proposed by the congressional black caucus, but senate republicans as kasie hunt so ably reported, widely silent on this issue and not eager to pur s pursue any kind of federal reform believing this is mostly a state and local issue. at the white house, this is a president who is surrounded more and more by people who surrounded him ten years ago at trump tower on that 26th floor,

hope hicks, jared kushner, ev ivanka trump, mark meadows who works in lockstep with jared kushner. this is not someone who is north carolina being, in terms of the president, urged to move in any moderate direction. >> who's idea was it? we've heard different reports that it might have been ivanka's idea, it may have been jared's idea. whose idea it was to brutalize protesters, peaceful protesters, look at the clip, marco, peaceful protesters in the president's park, in lafayette square, and to beat up reporters and cameramen from australia, to beat up protesters, to use tear gas, to lie about using these techniques, to brutalize all of these people. al all so the president can trot across with the secretary of defense. here's the australian crew getting beat up for just standing there the 'those are our allies by the way,

jackasses. those guys fought in real wars. were in fox holes with american gis for over a hundred years, jackasses. you're a disgrace. you're an absolute disgrace! and i certainly hope, i know the president of the united states won't do it, i certainly hope somebody in washington, d.c. and in an official position will apologize to the people of australia, our longest and most loyal allies over the last hundred or so years, again, fighting with us in every ware. and this is how we treat their reporters. by the way, we're treating our reporters that way too. it's disgraceful. but these sort of things happen after you call the press enemies of the people for three, four years. anyway, so -- so whose idea was all of this, bob costa?

who hatched this idea that so repulsed the majority of americans? >> i've been spending the last 12 hours trying to figure this out. at the end of the day, many aides in the white house were talking about walking across lafayette square. you had kellyanne conway, the counsel to the president yesterday on the walking talking to reporters saying the president wasn't aware of what his movements would do in terms of security. you hear a lot of aides saying they weren't full lin formed like secretary esper is saying about how this who would all play out. but based on my conversations with top people in the government and congress, at the end of the day, this was president trump's decision. others talked about it in the oval office, ivanka trump, hope hicks, jared kushner, yes, they did. but this was president trump. and that the context here, this is a president who behind the scenes on monday was repeatedly telling governors on a conference call and his aides that he wanted to dominate the streets, control the streets. they talked about the insurrection act, bringing the

military in to cities and states across this country even if governors and mayors did not want the u.s. military there. this was a president who all day monday was thinking about force, talking about force. >> and -- and doing this to peaceful protesters and to reporters. also, he c all so he can walk across the street and awkwardly hold up a bible. it is grotesque. >> yeah. >> i don't care -- >> trump-like. >> -- whether you're a christian or not, just read the red letters in the gospels. this so goes against everything jesus christ taught. everything, whether you're a believer or not, to hold up that bible after brutalizing peaceful protesters in the park is really shocking. and, wes, as a military man, let me ask you, if you were as

shocked, as was i, seeing the secretary of defense in a photo op in front of a church after these peaceful protesters had been brutalized because of the president's plans. >> you know, there's a -- i'm just coming up on my anniversary of when i actually enlisted to join the united states army. i was actually 17 years old and actually had to get my mom's permission to join. and the owning thath that i too that i solemnly swear that i will defend the constitution of the united states against all enemies foreign and domestic. what were the protesters doing except expression their first amendment right? what were the protesters doing besides exercising their constitutional right? and so the idea that my former unit, the 82nd airborne division, is now being activated

and called in to potentially quell protesters who are exer sizing the exercising their constitutional right is absolutely baffling to me. and it goes past the idea that it is against an oath. it also goes to the idea that it's not effective. so if we think there about what is our goal in all of this. it goal is to bring the temperature down, if the goal is to actually get to us a point where we can have a conversation and actually pursue justice in a very real way, i have yet to see a single data point that shows that an acceleration of militarization leads to a passfication of protesters. we saw this last night in cloums columb columbus. this step has seen violent clashes between police and protesters during this process. the police changed their tactics last night, changed their

presence, and it became more peaceful. we saw it in cities like newark, in cities like flint where -- these are cities that have been devastated by poverty and inequality where you have protesters and you have activists and your community members who are rightfully mad. but their police forces actually took a different tactic. the police forces for the most part actually kept the batons and the shields at home. and those have been two areas, both newark and flint, have been two of the areas that have had the most peaceful protests that we've seen throughout this entire time. so it goes back to what was the constitutional oath that people took. and also what is the goal that you're actually trying to achieve in this? because right now if there's a certain goal you're trying to achieve, your tactics have no basis of actually having this chance of working. >> so this photo op disaster has been roundly condemned for so many reasons, except, claire

mccaskill, among several republicans who kasie hunt was able to catch up yesterday. take a listen. >> senator mcconnell, was what the president did last night the right thing to do? senator, nice to see you. was what the president did last night right? senator, was what the president did last night with the peaceful protesters outside the white house the right thing to do. >> pardon? >> what the president did, the peaceful protesters that were dispersed with tear gas, he then walked across the street to the church, was that the right thing to do. >> didn't really see it. >> senator, is what the president did yesterday at st. john's, was that appropriate? was it an abuse of power? senator roberts, was what the president. >> yeah. >> was what the president did last night at st. john's, was that appropriate? was clearing the protesters an abuse of power? i'm sorry? >> i don't have a comment.

>> you don't have any comment on what happened at the white house last night? >> the what? >> the white house -- protesters have a right -- >> i didn't watch that. [ inaudible ]. >> senator inslee, are you concerned about what happened at the white house last night? >> sorry [ inaudible ]. >> senator blackburn, do you have any concerns about what unfolded at the white house last night? senator portman, do you think what we saw last night at the white house -- >> i'm late for lunch. >> senator cassidy, was what we saw at the white house last night an abuse of power? >> i can follow-up -- >> oh, claire, we did hear senator sasse, collins, langford, and murkowski were actually able to speak out against what happened. but that silence that we heard there when kasie hunt was asking a basic question, it's pretty shocking. >> yeah. and, you know, it's almost as

phony as the president's photo op. the excuses that they're giving. they all saw it. how about late to lunch? let me just drill down on that for a minute. they were on their way into a caucus lunch. there is never ever a caucus lunch in the u.s. senate where everyone gets there on time. you wander in, you eat, and way at the end of the lunch there is some discussion about what you're doing that week. it is informal, there is no need to be there on time. so what i'm really going to ask the republican senators is if you don't have the courage to stand up to a phony photo op based on the premise that you forcibly clear peaceful protesters, then at least turn to the camera and say i am afraid to comment because i don't want to anger donald trump. that's the pbottom line here. say it outloud.

do that at a minimum. but this notion i'm late to lunch, #late to lunch rob portman. it's just inexcusable that these guys are so afraid of this man in the white house who is going to take them down. he's going to take them down. >> how could they not know that? >> and donald trump did get that mean tweet, the mean tweet they were all fearing as they were, quote, late for lunch yesterday. the people who did speak out, ben sasse, langford, others did receive the dreaded mean tweet. jonathan, you've been writing an awful lot about this over the last nine days about what we're seeing in the streets. what the death of george floyd means. the idea behind all this protest and all this outrage that we're seeing is change, that something should happen at the end of this, not protest for its own sake. so what changes now? we've talked about this for the last couple of days, but how do you capture this moment and turn it into something so it's not

just a moment, but it's a time when things actually did change? >> well, it's going to require us, and i think the folks who are demonstrating know this, it's going to require time. it's going to require energy. and by that i mean we've seen now nine days people have been in the streets for nine continuous days. and so i think elected officials and those who want to be elected officials need to here the rage coming from the streets. this is not indiscriminate rage, this is not rage based on nothing. this is rage based on, as joe said i think at the top of the show, 400 years of injustice. this is a collective rage now because this isn't just african americans, thank goodness for iphones and video so that everyone can see what's happening. this is -- this is a rage of a nation, rage of a nation that is

built upon ideals of equal justice under law. we know we're not a perfect country, everyone in those streets know we're not a perfect country, that's why they're there. but they're also there to fight for those ideals and to stand with their fellow american citizens in achieving it. and the reason why folks are in the streets for this long, and i think will continue to be, is because the man in the white house is not providing the leadership. i long since not even expected leadership from this president because what the constitution requires, which is something that i've -- it took donald trump for me to understand this, the constitution is only as strong as the person who swears to uphold it. and when you have a president of the united states who has no reverence for the constitution and nobody reverence for the

office that he holds, no moral core, then you have a president of the united states who can and will and has done anything possible to protect himself. and so i think what's going to happen between now and election day and then even after election day is that the american people are going to make their voices heard in the streets until it's time for them to make their voices heard at the ballot box. and then they're going to keep making their voices heard so that, you know, god willing, knock on wood, if joe biden is elected president of the united states, to hold his feet to the fire to ensure is that those voice dolla voices of anger and rage and heartache are still heard by their government. but not just heard, acted upon. >> meanwhile, just a few minutes ago the president of the united states tweeting, quote, get tough police. that's his message of unity. he thinks police should get tougher than they've been in images like the ones we're seeing here.

wes, i want to put that same question to you, because you are uniquely qualified and you are one of the great leaders in this country to talk about what's happening right now. given your background, the way you grew up in baltimore, your military service and the work you've been doing ever since, especially now at robinhood fighting poverty and injustice in new york city. how do we turn this moment into productive change? because i think a lot of people are in it right now, they want to help, they don't know exactly how to help. how do we turn this into a moment that actually changes the country and we don't just turn the page in a week or two weeks on to the next? >> thank you, willie. and i -- i think about the fact, and i know we discussed before that the president of the united states in our nation's history has activated the nation guaal d only 12 times in our nation's

history. only two of them had didn't hav do with race. the post at strike in new york and the looting that took place in saint croix after a hurricane. every other time had to do with race. and so we continue coming up with the same solution because we have yet to grapple with the problem. race. the impact that race has on this country, the impact that race continues to have on this country, i run one of the largest poverty fighting organizations in this punt. a country. and the thing that continues to come up in every single dataset is racial disparities. whether you're talking about housing, education, transportation, criminal justice, early childhood, mental health, food insecurity, race. and so the things that we have to be able to do now, we have to push for this idea of justice. and justice does not just mean

justice for mr. floyd and justice for his family, because that has to come. justice doesn't just mean policing reform, because that has to come. real true police reform in this country. but justice is also economic justice. it's also health justice. it's making sure that, yes, while we have to wait for a trial to figure out what's going to happen and what is the fate of the officers who are responsible for mr. floyd's death, it also is the fact that we have a responsibility and the things that we can do right now, right now, to be able to pursue and to achieve justice so we do not keep on having the same collusion to the same problem that we continue to avoid. race. and how do we think about it through truth, address its trauma, and come up with a real concerted form of reconciliation about how to move forward. >> well, the president is tweet be insults to the media and other things. meanwhile, here's joe biden

speaking yesterday in philadelphia. >> i can't breathe. i can't breathe. george floyd's last words, but they didn't die with him. they're still being heard echoing all across this nation. can't lead this moment -- can't lead this moment thinking that we can once again turn away and do nothing. you can't do that this time. you just can't. the moment has come for our nation to deal with systemic racism. to deal with a growing economic equity that exists in our nation. to deal with the denial of the promise of the nation made to so many. i know there's enormous fear and uncertainty and anger in the country. i understand. i know so many americans are suffering.

suffering loss of a loved one, suffering economic hardship, wondering can i feed my family tomorrow? what's going to happen? suffering under the weight of generation after generation after generation of hurt inflicted on people of color, on black, brown, and native communities in particular. the pain is raw. the pain is real. the president of the united states must be a part of the solution, not the problem. but this president today is part of the problem and accelerates it. i wish i could say that he hate began with donald trump and will end with him. it didn't and it won't. american history isn't a fairytale with a guaranteed happy ending. the battle for the soul of this nation has been a constant push and pull for more than 240 years. a tug of war between the american ideal that we're all

created equal and the harsh reality that racism has long torn us apart. donald trump has turned this country into a battlefield driven by old resentments and fresh fears. he thinks division helps him. his narcissism has become more important than the nation's well-being that he leads. i ask every american, i mean this from the bottom -- ask every american, look at where we are now and think anew. is this who we are? is this who we want to be? is this what we want to pass on to our children and our grandchildren? fear, anger, finger pointing rather than pursuit of happiness, incompetence, anxiety, self-absorption, selfishness. >> jonathan, president trump famously asked during the campaign to black americans what do you have to lose?

and temperature seems from the pol polls we've been showing on the show, that might be a question for all of us. >> i'm glad you show clips from former vice president's speech yesterday because it was a terrific speech. it was a speech that a leader gives. it was a speech that a president gives. i actually think that president trump is playing into joe biden's hands. and hear me out here. there are two things where vice president biden is -- has been extremely clear during this campaign. it's the fact that donald trump is a menace to the office and to the nation, but also that we're fighting for the soul of the nation because of him. because of what he's doing to the constitution, because he's a divider, because his instinct is not to unite, it's to rally around his ever shrinking base and to talk tough as he's doing right now. everyone talks about joe biden and gas and floods, but when he talks about the soul of the

nation and what president trump is doing to this country both here and abroad, he is clear, is he focused, and as long as president trump keeps tweeting anger, tweeting rage, tweeting things that are unconstitutional, seeking to divide the country, seeking to divide the country by speaking to a very narrow thin slice of this country, then joe biden looks better and better. and, you know, we need to get back to an america where joe biden clear i'd saeyed says we t a perfect nation. no, we are not, we have never been, we will never be. but it sin come bent upon us to have a chief executive, to have a president of the united states whose natural instinct is to unite. who has a moral core. who knows in his bones that to leave the white house while there are demonstrations going outside using military police

to -- using tear gas and flash bang bombs to move a crowd from outside of the white house, to walk to a church, to awkwardly hold a bible and use it as a prop, that that is not america. that is not strength. that is not the presidency. that picture there of the president holding up the bible, my mother say born again evangelical christian. once or twice a year we goo with h her to church. men going to church, men of faith, they don't get bibles from their daughter's $1,500 handbag. they carry them because they revere them. they know that book. they knows what's in there. they nope what tknow what the l that book that helps guide us, hopefully guide him in the role that he has. it is -- it is a beacon usually for chief kmexecutives, for

presidents of the united states. for donald trump it's just a prop. that is not who the president should be. and the president should be someone who reflects the united states, all of its people, not just some. and so that's why i -- i loved what vice president biden had to say. and i think it's actually quite fitting. remember the last time we had a speech like that, that touched on race, was then senator barack obama's speech on race in philadelphia that helped resurrect his campaign and helped usher him into the white house. because we, as a people, as americans, no, we're not perfect. but we're always look for someone, and especially someone who aspires to be president of the united states who will show us the way to be a better people, who reflects who we believe we are in our hearts and in our core. and right now we don't have that. right now we have that in joe biden stepping into a role that he was born to lead.

that he has always been in, now we're focusing on him because he's the predumpsisumptive demo nominee for president. >> bob costa, as he talks about that moment, the photo op he's holding the bible, i'm remind of john heilemann's question to then candidate donald trump, are you more of an old testament guy or new testament guy? he struggled and said i like them both equally. it's just an incredible book. that's his familiarity with the bible there. but i want to ask you more br d broadly, we heard from people who called this moment, quote, iconic. that was a quote to axios. we know it went well because they immediately from the official white house account produced a video that looked more like a video with music under it of him striding through lafayette park that had been cleared of peaceful protesters with gas tear gas, rubber

bullets and flashbangs. do they have any sense of a reuters poll that shows 33% of americans approve the way the president has been handling things the last nine days have there any sense at all that this is going badly for them? >> they're quiet concerns. when you think of vice president's speech in philadelphia, he was not only in that city, he was speaking to voters in the suburbs 20 miles to the north, 15 miles to the north, bucks county, chester county to the south. he was saying so those voters who many of them went to president trump in 2016, is this really where you want to go again four more years of donald trump? and he was speaking to the whole nation, but really to those suburban voters as well as those minority voters and black voters who are looking at this election. and the white house knows this as well, that those suburban voters in places like the philadelphia area are going decide this election. that's why when you talk to white house official they're trying to put out these videos

showing president trump striding across lafayette park because they're trying to project themselves much like richard nixon did as a law and order candidate. now the choice is for suburban voters, is president trump a law and order candidate, or is he a candidate of chaos? is he a candidate that's unraveling the democratic norms and civil society in the united states? and that's why vice president biden, they're speaking to those voters who are quiet as president trump often calls them the silent majority and trying to make a new argument to them just months before the election. >> well, you know, willie, the problem, obviously, with the 1968 analogy is that in 1968 that was lyndon johnson's america. that was hubert humphrey's america. they associated the chaos, they associated the division, they associated vietnam with a sitting president, which is what americans do whether -- whether it's fair to blame george h.w.

bush for a recession at the end of 1992 that comes to and he in the fourth quarter of 1992 after he's defeated or not, that's what americans do. and the real problem politically for this white house, we've always talked about how they have to draw an inside straight, they've been trying to do two things at once. they have to reach back out to suburban voters at the same time they have been promising that they are going to get 15%, possibly 20% of the black vote. >> yeah. >> that's not going to happen now, obviously. unemployment for black adults now over 50%. the president continually calling black protesters thugs out in the streets. talking about with the looting starts the shooting starts. and, again, just the overall

call for police to rough up the protesters is going to make that 15% to 20% goal that they've been looking at for three years now, i believe, almost impossible. the bigger problem for him, though, is the suburbs of philly. mccomb county, the i-4 corridor in florida, even the suburbs of dallas. areas that donald trump's republican party lost badly in over the past three years in elections and especially in 2018. and among african americans, only 10% right now are supporting the president's response to protest, 73% disapproving. so this white house politically has to thread the needle, and that's becoming more difficult by the day. >> yeah. and it's odd the president views himself still, although he's lived in the white house for 3

haugh years, as an outsider. a few days ago he tweeted time for a change creditor exclamation point, which was an odd thing for an incumbent president to tweet about the 2020 election. but you're right, when you look at those numbers. and we haven't even talked about his performance during the pandemic for the last three months. >> right. >> and whats that has done to his numbers on the other end of the spectrum. and how that has declined and cratered in other areas. so when he's tweeting about law and order and tell the police to get tough, there are people in america who watch the looting in the streets and they agree that something has to be done to stop that crime. but he's shown no outreach to the peaceful protesters, the majority who are the peaceful protesters. no understanding, no empathy. we know he's not capable of that. but no sympathy whatsoever for the cause of the peaceful protesters and the pain that wes moore and jonathan cape heart

a have been talking about this morning of african americans in this country. >> just to pull back 20,000 feet to the point you were making, on this president's watch, a pandemic that spiraled out of control despite repeated warnings, and now we're at 107,000 dead. racial unrest that is stirring across the country and around the world because people are tired of having black men killed unnecessarily at the hands of police. and an economy dangling toward a depression. that, is what happened on trump's watch. that's what he's contending with as he makes a bid for re-election. >> and, again, the american people, i talked about a very mild case of this with george h.w. bush being blamed for a recession in 1992. he got defeated the fourth quarter of 1992, the economy turned around. if you're president of the united states, regardless of where the exact blame should

lie, it is usually the president of the united states that gets the blame. and certainly you're going to be seeing a lot of his tweets that he's made during this -- during these protests. you're going to be seeing a lot of the statements that he made during the pandemic. and there's going to be quite a battle over his legacy that -- >> for sure. >> -- i think democrats will likely -- i could go back to the first hour of his presidency and use the term american carnage. >> yes. >> to describe exactly what's happened to this country in 2020. >> robert costa, jonathan ca, tk you for being on this morning. up next, a jump start to joe biden's campaign, congressman jim clyburn joins to us talk 2020 politics and about the

protests ripping the nation. plus, house speaker nancy pelosi will be our guest. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. i just love hitting the open road and telling people that liberty mutual customizes your insurance, so you only pay for what you need! [squawks] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ the first and only full prescription strength non-steroidal anti-inflammatory gel available over-the-counter. new voltaren is powerful arthritis pain relief in a gel. voltaren. the joy of movement. everything has changed. our work, how we eat, breathe, even stand. but we can't stand for this. to protect our health and our right to vote... with vote by mail, and safe options for voting in person, we must act now. but mitch mcconnell refuses to let the senate vote. join us. tell mitch: protect our health and our vote. why's mitch so afraid

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so, "morning joe" chief medical correspondent dr. dave campbell. thanks so much for being with us. it wasn't so long ago we were all very worried for good reason about people partying in a swimming pool in the ozarks, at a resort in missouri. now we're seeing tens of thousands of people packed into city streets across america. how concerned are you about a coming spike in coronavirus cases and coronavirus deaths? >> joe, everybody's concerned about a coming spike in coronavirus deaths. it seems like memorial day was a lifetime ago as it relates to the coronavirus. there's this krgrowing wearines across the country with concerns and considerations to prevent

the person to person transmission of this highly infectious virus which causes the highly deadly serious issue of covid-19. so as this next few weeks, even month of the summer progresses, it is important to get back to the basics and remember that this particular virus is transmitted person to person typically by speaking, sneezing, coughing, by proximity. and the -- maybe a week ago the journal came out way large study looking at 172 different reports across six continents ton find out wh out what is important about physical distancing, face mask wear and eye protection. i'll tell you the summary of that very large review.

face kurvecoverings are importa. physical distancing, more than three feet is important. wearing the proper kind of face wear is important. it's long been known that the medical grade n95 and k n95 masks are more effective at preventing t preventing the transmission of viral particles particularly and to the person wearing it. and don't forget about protecting your eyes with other goggles, face masks, face shields. this report that came out is, i would say, a landmark study that put together a large pool of all available reports. and that is the bottom line. we cannot let our guard down. the protesters, while they're outside, are encouraged to wear face masks, eye protection, and also as much physical distancing as possible. or they're going to be bringing back to their homes where there are older people, people with

underlying health conditions living under the same roof, they're going to bring that virus back home and by independence day we may be looking at a whole level of increase spikes across different parts of the country, joe. >> yeah, i'm so concerned about these young protesters coming home that aren't wearing masks, giving this disease to their parents, their grandparents, members of their family with underlying conditions that can cause real problems, real heartache. how sad that actually the term the slogan that we're hearing in these marches i can't breathe is probably -- probably words that too many nurses, too many doctors heard as the coronavirus killed over 100,000 americans. so, if you're going on -- on an airplane, and i think a lot of americans are, you know, they're getting ready to start their lives back up. and i think you're seeing more and more people that are getting

ready to go on airplanes, it seems smart that, yes, you wear the n95 masks, but also those -- those -- the protective eyewear. looking at this study seems like it would really cut down your risks of catching the coronavirus even on commercial airplanes. >> yeah. you have to protect your eyes. the eyes aren't really transmitting the virus, the eye drops and secretions from your eyes aren't the issue. it's that you may take and touch surfaces that have the virus and then touch your eye. so part of eye protection is that it changes your behavior and you're not going to touch your eye as much without thinking about it if you have a pair of goggles on or even a face shield. but also the droplets that may come from another person on a plane if somebody sneezes or coughs in your direction, whether or not aerosols are

floating through the air, a droplet coming toward your face needs to be blocked by every means possible. and that is covering your eyes and covering your face, mouth, and nose. >> dr. dave campbell, thank you very much. and coming up, what do protesters need for a successful, nonviolent movement? we're tall king to two leading activists who have some ideas. "morning joe" is back in a moment. d then they hang out with you and then they're jack nicholson in the shining. i'm gonna tell my mom you tried to drown me. it's an above ground pool. you're like eight feet tall.

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joining us now, activists, organizer and educator. an activist writer and msnbc contributor. they are cohosts of the podcast pod save the people and co-founders of campaign zero, a non-profit to end police violence. i'll start with you but i'd love to hear from both of you on this from your experience in past protests and dealing with this specific issue, what has worked, what has not worked. >> let me zoom out and set the context. in marchand april of 2020 the police killed the same number of people at the same rate as they did in march oppenhef 2019. so lock down and covid didn't change anything and 2019 was the first year where black people were more afraid of being killed

by a police officer than being killed by community violence. we think about this issue as consistent tear in communities. when i think about what works. britney and i have been partners in this for the past five years is that we know that focussing on policies, practices and solutions really do change the outcomes. so we just launched something about the 8 policies that when they're in play, when a police department goes through zero to eight of them there's a 70% reduction in police violence. banning choke holds and strangle holds. only 28 of the police departments ban them today. restricting and banning shooting can alleviate goals requiring the exscalation. they do matter a lot. >> britney. >> i mean, his point is so well made and i'm really, really glad that folks are able to see that work and know that these are common sense solutions. we can talk about what works in

protests but the truth of the matter is protests comes at the end of the continum. there's something that spurred them to happen. i it wasn't what we're seeing on the street, it was violence from police. it was the killings of george floyd and brianna taylor and a list too long to name on this broadcast. so when we recognize that protests come at the end of the continuum we're focused to see that systemic, bold policy change is what is going to stop it and not bring us back to this point in another few yearsment the kinds of policies he walked through don't cost much money and require an act of congress or the state legislature. they just require that police chiefs actually have the courage of conviction to do what we know works and what keeps everybody safe. >> claire, jump in. >> britney, it's claire.

good morning, thank you for all that you have done for many years in this space. you just mentioned police chiefs and they're hired by mayors or city council and we get distractdistrac distracted sometimes by looking at the federal level and as you know as well as anybody in this country, these are local police departments. these are not federal agents that are causing this problem. last night we had an election in fergs ferguson. people don't think it's sexy to try to change the city council or the mayor but everybody needs to realize what you realize is that's how you really get change in this space. >> so i'm going to push a little bit and say that two things are actually true. that we know that local police officers, police departments and police unions take their direction and get signals from the federal government. when you have a president that has been invoking violence and

fear and not just in the general public but through police departments and has encouraged police departments to act in the ways that they are, that that contributes to the actions that we see at the local level. so there is blame here to go around and we should be very clear trump deserves a whole mountain of it but you are also right, the second thing that is true is that there are 18,000 police departments across this country and much of that policy is being set locally. that's why it can't wait matters so much. those are changes that are happen right on the ground. earlier jonathan said the last round of protests lasted nine days in ferguson we were on the ground for over 400 days. it was one of the longest direct social action campaigns in this country's history and now ferguson has its first black mayor. we're just now getting to the point where we can have these conversations and still when we look at the case of jason in st. louis and so many other cases in

my hometown and in my home state we recognize that the kind of policy solutions we needed in missouri and across the country still have not come to bear. so those eight can't wait at the local level and we're holding this person in the white house accountable. >> it's willie geist. good to have you both on this morning. britney started to anticipate my question. i want to know from both of you who are on the ground whose lives were redirected from education to working on the ground there on police violence in ferguson and all of those years since in august of 2014, what has changed since ferguson? since the point of all of this is to make things better and to get the policy changes? so as you look at the nearly six years since ferguson, have things gotten better? have things changed on the backs of all of this activism?

the police have not killed any less than the 2014 number. we do see a statistically significant increase in the largest cities. in the top 100 cities we see a decrease offset in increases in suburban and rural communities in a way that erases the good work we're seeing in cities but what we know about solutions is two real buckets. the first is how do we reduce the power of the police? so when we look at use of force policies, that's about saying we want to reduce the power that we have to inflict harm in community and the second is how do we shrink the role of the police. only 5% of the arrests that happen in the country actually happen for violent crime. so we staff police departments at 50% or 60% and we don't need

somebody with a gun to go in cases where there's a mental health crisis. we don't need somebody with a gun at car accidents or to find missing kids. we need to take all of those responsibilities and shift them to experts and make sure that the resources shift to those experts. we have to shrink the role of the policing apparatus wholly. >> thank you we appreciate it. coming up, house speaker nancy pelosi and the house majority whip join us. morning joe is coming back. less oral steroids. taking my treatment at home. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing.

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the president held up the bible at st. johns church yesterday. i just wish he would open it once in awhile instead of brandishing it. we're all called to love one another as we love ourselves. it's really hard work but it's the work of america. donald trump isn't interested in doing that work. instead he is sweeping away all the guard rails that long protected our democracy. guard rails that helped make possible this nation's path to a more perfect union. a union that requires reform and

rededication and yes, the protests from those ignored and left behind. it's a union worth fighting for and that's why i'm running for president. >> joe biden speaking yesterday in philadelphia. >> yeah, it's interesting he started talking about holding up that bible and what we have seen over the last 24 hours, condemnation from religious leaders, the pope talking about the protest and looking at how things are going in the united states and saying you can't continue to turn a blind eye to what's going on in america and claim to protect life.

pat robertson talking yesterday about the president's actions saying he had to start showing compassion and james lankford a republican senator saying he reads a bible every day and he has never seen anybody in his life hold up a bible like that. i have to say as a guy that grew up in a southern baptist church, i never saw anybody hoist a bible forward as a political prop. you even had the head of the church he was standing in front of saying it was disgraceful what he was doing. that's starting to show up in the polls. the polling coming out showing that the overwhelming majority of americans are opposed by this

president and if you represent us stop lying to us about using tear gas. we saw it. it happened. we all saw it in real time. >> you did that to american citizens. >> the global village saw people in that time with their heads back and their friends pouring water in their eyes. yesterday he talked about it as well. you use tear gas you used tear gas and pepper spray and rubber bullets to clash with peaceful protestors. it's all on tape. it's all on tape republicans, it's all on tape. we saw it happening in real

time. stop lying. so you actually have peaceful protestors that were there that had tear gas used against them, brute force used against them, rubber bullets used against them. i'm so ashamed that an australian camera man and reporter were brutalized in the park, the president's park. i'll show you by the way, one of our closest and oldest allies, a country that had their troops along our troops in fox holes for over 100 years, they have fought with us in every war. and yet members of the press being targeted constantly. constantly. peaceful protests being broken up and the president thinking he is proving a point? this law and i mean, for a photo op? let's show this again. i want to show the poll numbers

an show that it's not working. it's not 1968 and as somebody said yesterday if it were 1968, donald trump would be in big trouble and the brutality was surprising to me. the head of the department of defense, hey james mattis. do you want to wake up from your slummer and stop worrying about offending somebody. we have a secretary of defense who actually said he thought that the president, they were going to inspect troops and they were going to inspect a bathroom. now that is the worst excuse since he said his dog ate his constitution. it's despicable if he were mislead by that by the president of the united states then he should re-sign.

you should re-sign this morning if you were used as a political plot. your military mr. secretary, your military, the men and women of our military are being used as political props and guess what, they're not good political props because we have separated civilians from the military for about 240 years and it's worked out pretty well for us and if you think a washed up reality tv show host is going to change that reality, let me show you these poll numbers. this is from reuters yesterday. 33% of americans, only one in three americans support the chaos that this man is spreading across america. when the looting starts, the shooting starts. calling protests thugs as much as he possibly can.

and then again, you know, it's the low point of his presidency so far. a lot of people thought the low point of his presidency and they said so was a week or two ago when he was actually terrorizing a widower who was begging him to stop using his dead wife's memory to try to stage a political attack. and he said anybody that looked at that and thought that was the low point of donald trump's presidency, they don't know donald trump. you don't understand. there is no low point. there is no low point. and that's why republicans, they need to do that, not only for

the country, not only in defense of the constitution but for their own sake. for the sake of their constituents. for their place in history. so they won't be going on with this display of raw power combined with stupidity that's what happened earlier this week and americans will naren't buyi. donald trump is not playing 3 dimensional chess he's eating the chess pieces and it's not going well. >> so along with joe, willie and me we have the white house reporter for the associated press. nbc news capital hill correspondent and host of kcdc on msnbc on sunday nights casey hunt and msnbc contributor shauna thomas. great to have you back with us.

>> i'm looking at these numbers from reuters poll. so many people saying that law and order would work for donald trump, that it's going to be like 1968. here's the problem. donald trump is incumbent. this is all happening on donald trump's watch. when he, the first night started talking about shooting people, the president of the united states, calling protestors thugs. it's jetting things up. pat robertson, even pat robertson is telling him to cut it out. the pope is telling him to cut it out. republicans are telling him. some remembers to cut it out. this is not working. the biggest surprise is that i know that they're stupid, a lot of these people around the president are stupid, that's the only reason they're there because they will do whatever he tells them to do but what he didn't realize is that some of them are so stupid that they were actually congratulating themselves after donald trump started ai riot in the

president's park and lafayette park so he could have a photo on and awkwardly, weirdly, business sa d bizzarly like nobody has ever held a bible before in a political event. it's just bizarre. holding it upside down. >> white house advisers were calling that foe fphoto iconic. that was the quote two nights ago. they say that was an iconic moment. the iconic moment was his going to a church that looters had attempted to burn down the night before. not warning the church he was coming. not talking to the diocese, not warning anyone else that he would be there. not going in to survey the damage, not offering prayer, but holding up a bible that when asked if it was his bible he said it's a bible. and how did he get there? he cleared the park. he had bill barr take a stroll

through the park to assess. he ordered the park to be cleared again with the use of chemical agents and flash bangs and rubber bullets and the nationwide protest now showing no sign of letting up. neither the president's threat of military force nor curfews keeping protestors from taking to the streets well into the night, including at lafayette square near the white house where force was used as i said the day before to clear the president's way to st. john's church for that photo op. this is video from los angeles where at least 100 protestors were arrested for violating the 6:00 p.m. curfew in that city. there were some incidents of looting but nothing like previous nights that we have seen. this video shows looters breaking into a pharmacy while peaceful protestors were gathering just around the corner. we also saw tense protests outside of the home of the los

angeles mayor as more than 1,000 people gathered there. he appeared at a protest in downtown los angeles where he nealed in the middle of a prayer circle. mean while, bill de blasio said moving the curfew helped to stop vandalism. after a standoff, the protestors eventually turned back peacefully. so, what we saw last night was much different than in previous nights. there was much less looting and much less violence but when you take all of this in total the president's approval on this was 33% on his handling of the protests and of this moment in american history. that's among his supporters of 38 or 39% so even people that

support him more broadly don't like the way he handled the last week or so. i see the moments before he got to the church where he is flanked by the staff or the woman that worked for him and one black person in the group looked like a secret service agent. even if we thought the president was capable of rising to this moment i don't know who around him can help him get out of the 33% you just saw. i don't know who around him he can listen to if he has that ability to listen who he can listen to what they're trying to say. he clearly doesn't hear them but

i see that photo and i don't know how he will ever figure this out beyond what we have already seen. >> still ahead, house majority whip joins the conversation but first the speaker of the house is our guest. you're watching morning joe. >> peaceful protests dispersed for a president using tear gas and flash grenades in order to stage a photo op. a photo op on one of the most historic churches in the country or at least in washington d.c. he's more interested in power than principle. more interested in serving the fashions of his base than the needs of the people in his care.

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>> i was thinking of so many things in the bible that would have been appropriate in terms of the humanity of all people in our country and i was thinking about time. time is such a most important commodity. the most finite of all commodities, the time it takes to make the change necessary. and it's long overdue time for us to make the change that people are calling out for. >> nancy pelosi joins us now. thank you for being with us. several republican senators and

the pope expressing concerns about how things are being handled in the united states right now. talk about that scene where they had peaceful demonstrators cleared and attacked and gassed so he could go hold up a bible at a photo op. >> well it shows the contradiction and inconsistency. if you're going to hold up a bible and stand in front of a church your message should be consistent with the bible and values and of course it was not. his holiness the pope has spoken out in support of the protestors and rejecting violence as we all do but also i was very proud of the arch bishop of washington d.c. that was just flabbergasted at the thought that a religious institution would allow itself

to be used as was the shrine to st. paul, yesterday. his statement was very strong. so again america is a kind nation. america's heart is full of love. many people are our yenlted toward religion and faith based organizations play a very strong role in our life but we have to be consistent. we have to act upon our values and what happened the other night was an exploitation of the good feelings of the american people who associate themselves with the bible and the church but my daughter called me and said mom you wouldn't believe it, these people were demonstrating peacefully and all of a sudden this barrage of security came through and used clubs to beat people and these

explosive little bullets that explode into stuff that burns your eyes. maybe they didn't have tear gas, i don't know but they had the elements of it for peaceful demonstrators to make way, make way for the president to walk through. what is this? a banana republic? >> the polls that have come out showed an overwhelming of americans support those marching and protesting and oppose the president's reaction to this. are you hopeful even though it's so late to hold out hope. to be a more unifying force in the middle of this extraordinary moment. and as admiral mullens said at this inflection point in american history.

>> well, you would know better than i what would go on in the minds of the republicans on the other side of the aisle. so far they have given the president cart blanche but they do represent their own people and we will get a different reaction from them. i salute admiral mullen for his courage in coming out and saying what he did, speaking truth. and laura bush had a beautiful statement yesterday that i wish everyone would read but as far as republicans here are concerned let's hope that whatever they're thinking they would be voting in support of some of the initiatives that now we should be paving the way for. we're talking about qualified immunity so that you cannot prosecute a police officer for breaking the law whether it's ending racial profiling, whether

it's issues that relate to profiling and the list goes on and hopefully as part of the comprehensive package we can get that going. we certainly want to honor what happened to george floyd. so tragic and so fine. it's just an explosion of so much else that is out there, a tinderbox and in terms of economic injustice, social injustice, environmental injustice, the list goes on. we're talking about how to address how covid-19 is affecting people of color in a disproporti disproportionate way. whether we're talking about helping people at this difficult economic time and issues that

relate to food and rent and the rest at this difficult time. for all americans including people of color in our country. but then if we go on from that to the infrastructure legislation that we're -- that we have had ready we'll talk about environmental injustices as well. and as you know many people are predisposed to the coronavirus because of respiratory dispositions that they have from living in places where environmental injustice prevails. and as many as we have and any bill that's leaving the station they're on. whether it's a funding bill and we talk about historical black colleges and universities, whether we're talking about what he will have 10-20-30 his initiative to make sure that the resources that we spend are

spent in areas that have been underserved. as i have said the list goes on i'm very proud that so many of our members have taken the initiative in the here and now in terms of their committees. the chairman of the homeland security committee is calling for them to come forward and brief on their role in all of this. the chair of the armed services committee calling forth the secretary of defense asked her to come in to explain what they're talking about in terms of military force in our country. members of the black caucus have different pieces of legislation. commission on the status, social status of young black men and boys, the list goes on. so we'll be intense, proactive and again because the american

people have identified with all of these injustices. we may have some success in the united states senate with it. >> it's good to see you on the show this morning. there were protests last night in your district in san francisco, largely peaceful protests. as we have heard again this morning and from activists and protestors over the last nine days, these protests across the country from san francisco to where you are now in washington are yes about the death of george floyd and also about so much more. and everything that underlies the death of george floyd. so i am curious madam speaker what you hear in the voices of those protestors. what are they saying to your ear? it's heartwarming to see so many people turn out peacefully and the inflection point and this pivotal point and this moment

where people see real opportunity. people turn out where they have hope their presence can make a difference and that their voices will be hurt and what we hear to your question is that there's real opportunity for change for people to understand that there's certain fundamentals that have to happen in terms of respect, respect and dignity of it all. i had the privilege of going to ghana which was the 400th anniversary of first ladies coming to america which was anticipated under the leadership of the chair of the congressional black caucus. it's so stunning. i have been there before. in terms of what that meant to the united states because if they survive that on a death

ship to come to the united states, if they survive that to be sold into slavery for a couple of hundred years. all of that injustice piling up and then of course everything that happened after that, jim crow and the rest. so we have some opportunity now. i see every crisis, every challenge as an opportunity. an opportunity now to address some of those grievances and what is interesting about those crowds is they're largely white. i think that that -- well, my district, we have such beautiful diversity, every gathering is beautifully diverse but across the country, it's bringing people together, community with unity and hopefully that gives us a stronger chance in the united states senate to get some of this legislation passed and sent on to the president. and to do so, and not an

accusatorial way and non-forgiving way but in a reaching out. people want people to come together. that's what i hear them saying in addition to wanting change, they want it to happen in a way that unifies not divides america. >> do you have concerns, speaker pelosi, you were mentioning before the coronavirus that's very much still with us. are you concerned about the large gatherings of people and what impact that may have on the public health. >> yes, i am. i am indeed concerned about that because it is true that wearing a mask and social distancing are very important to stopping the spread. it is -- its frightening actually. that's why we're hoping that very soon we can have the senate

take up the hero's bill that addresses the disparity in the deaths resulting from the coronavirus among people of color and that people, the social distancing has a purpose and the masking has -- wearing masks has a purpose and when people ignore that, if we can bring terrible things home to our children or to our seniors who may be living with us, being one myself that it is its very dangerous. people are not optimistic and hopeful that it's not going to happen to them and i am very, very concerned and there will be an increased number. all the more reason for us to pass the legislation.

we do have what has worked in other countries. testing, tracing, treatment and social distancing and that makes a tremendous difference and as people go out there i hope that they know that they're taking a risk but there's been some good social distancing among some of the crowds and on tv they're very close together. i think some of them are probably practicing social distancing. let us hope so. >> madam speaker, mika couldn't be with us this hour. she's sorry to have missed you but she asked people yesterday to text her questions that they might have for you and i wanted to read one off. a question is a general question, will the house be taking any steps to protect the public from the authoritarian actions by the commander in

chief and will there be legislation that attempts to ban the choke hold and this was the choke hold that killed george floyd. >> yes to both. mr. jeffreys has legislation about the choke hold specifically. it includes any kind of use of violence that stops the flow of blood to the brain to be specific, yes. and what is interesting about that question about these military, when you say military, people sometimes think that you mean the reserves and keeping order for the rest. people might say i'm all for that. that's necessary to be use of active military. that's almost a constitutional

question. when the president was on the call with the governors and i was saying i have the general here, the chairman of the joint senior center and he always wins and that was so out of place for the president of the united states but let's not go there. but the fact is he is not in the chain of command. he's an adviser to the president and the secretary of defense and he cannot order anyone to do anything. so that was a complete total misrepresentation once again on the part of the president as to how things would work. he wanted to show the proximity to the commander in chief and we have to be very cautious. that's why i'm so glad that adam smith the chair, chairman adam smith of washington state and the chair of the armed services committee called for the

secretary of defense and come before the committee. to have this discussion and this is very important. and there has to be a distinction between keeping ordered on the state. and versus the use of the military. let us pray. i always say as i said yesterday, let us pray. let us be prayerful about the greatness of america that will overcome some of the challenge that we're facing right now. i know that when you have a big event you know that they're going to be exploiters come in and break windows and the rest and that's what they do. it's unfortunate because then

everyone thinks others can be painted with that brush unfairly. so we again not honoring the memory of george floyd as his brother so eloquently said and hasn't the family just been so beautiful and so inspiring to all of us to mourn the loss of their loved one. it's pivotal in terms of making differences and making the change. and that people all over the world are turning out in his name but as you said earlier, the issue is larger. it's larger than the one incident because that is not one incident. it's part of a pattern and then part of a larger set of injustices that exist that we must address.

and in terms of the livelihood and the life of our democracy. >> finally i know your personal great faith. we talked about it. and so talk about your faith if you will in america that we are going to get through this. that you look at the numbers, the poll numbers during the coronavirus outbreak. actually most americans were responsible and are good people that protected their families and sheltered in place and we see the same thing with numbers and talk about how americans should not be in dispair.

>> i preernt yoappreciate your faith. sometimes people say to me where is hope? where can i go find hope? i say hope is sitting where it always has been right between faith and charity. faith, hope and charity. faith is in the goodness of other and it's very important as a gift not everyone has it. sometimes people say to me sow come you believe this or that i have the gift of faith and the gift of faith tells us that we're all god's children that we're made in the image and likeness of god and there's a spark of divinity in every person we have to respect including that we have to act upon. so many things that have happened in our country and

depended on faith as giving them hope because of love that they are hopeful is out there. and that is i think what people want to see. now not everybody is of the same mind and we have to be respectful of those differences of opinion. but we have the values. we have to act upon them. and the one thing that i missed in all of this is hugging my grandchildren but also going to church because i just love going to church and when father said you don't have to come, we don want you to come because this was early on. i said well, no, i want to come. this is such an inspiration.

so whatever faith people have that doesn't -- i happen to be about practicing catholic, whatever their faith. it is predicated on the goodness of people and that's something that we believe in and that gives us hope. >> house speaker nancy pelosi. thank you so much. we appreciate you being here. thank you so much and god bless you. >> thank you. third ranking democrat of the u.s. house of representative of south carolina and he is also the chairman of the house select subcommittee on the coronavirus crisis. it's always great to talk to you. we look at what's going on right now and we work together on some issues in the house. i've known you for a long time. this story is the white man in the deep south for a long time and nothing compared to the pain

and the heart ache that you have experienced through the years for so long. a win for a civil rights leader like yourself. a public service leader like yourself, what hope can you give black americans that history is bending toward justice and at some point we will get to the top of that mountain top and see over to the other side. >> faith, hope and charity. we always resicite that. one of my favorite versus of the bible is hebrew 11:1. faith, things so far and the evidence of things unseen. i think about that verse a whole lot and i keep faith in this

system. i hope for it and sometimes the evidence is not seen. you keep working, you keep the faith and nine times out of ten, things that come out all right on the other side. one of the people that i have really enjoyed interacting with in the congress is lewis. john and i first met back in 1968. so john and i talk about this stuff a lot. i really do believe as he believes. we can't move in this country. this country has the capacity to

get things right when they aren't quite right. this coronavirus has revealed some flaws in our system but i call lines that we have to work to repair. not to be more than any other nation but because we have always been able to repair our faults. so that is what we're trying to do here. repair some faults and i think the capacity to do it is still within this country's grasp. we just have to get serious about getting it done. >> i have seen you do that so much in the house of representatives and beyond. hey, we have a former member of the house of lords with us right now, she has a question for you. >> good morning, jim. >> good morning, claire, how are you? >> i'm well. you know, african american

turnout in november may very well be the deciding factor in the future of this nation. the future of our democracy. the respect for the rule of law and the constitution and the power of the presidency. talk a little bit about what you think needs to be done between now and november in light of the crisis of race we are facing now what are good advice to people on the ground of ways to engage and do a beautiful job of getting african americans out to vote because our democracy may very well depend on it this year. >> i've been saying from the last several days that i think we have a crossroads in this country. it's time, all good men and it's

time for all good men to come to the aid of their country and i would include women in that as well especially since that's where so much of the differences have been made in recent years. so what i would say to young people, most especially, irrespective of what you may be hearing, remember, we have now found out that what was gone back four years ago was stuff that was made up. we must keep our eyes on the prize as john lewis would tell us and the prize for all of us is a country that is ever moving forward in search of being a more perfect union. that is what we are always in pursuit of it. and anything that comes into the equation that's not apart of that pursuit, we ought to cast

aside. social media is great. i enjoy interacting especially with my daughters of what may or may not be taking place over social media. the fact of the matter is that we have to understand. we saw it. very pronounced. and we know that. so let us maintain our pursuit. you do that by participating in the process. when i hear people say and let's don't participate, things don't always come out exactly the way

that you want them. you keep gathering supporters for your cause and there's a lot of them out there. joe and i worked together in the house of representatives. we didn't agree on much politically but we had respect for each other. we kept an environment among ourselves that allow us to work together. and that's what we have to do. we know what we need to do in this country. we have to restructure. we have to restructure our health care system. we have to restructure our educational system. they could not continue to be educated online. we have to make sure that every child gets the ability to be educated online. everybody gets telehealth. we have to do that. broadband is i like to call it

the next greatest thing of the 21st century. if i have time, let me share just a minute with your listeners, a rural tennessee church about to celebrate the 50th anniversary and a gentleman stood up in church and says brothers and sisters, i want to tell you this, the greatest thing on earth is to have the love of god in your heart. and the next greatest thing is electricity in your house. the next greatest thing of the 21st century is broadband internet in every home. that is what it's going to take to get health care out there and the education out there and the infrastructure that we call the international highway has to get built and if we do that that's the way that we would interact with each other. we know what electrofication did

for the rural south and electrofication made the 20th century big for all of us. in the 21st century there has to be broadband. it would cost $86 billion to get broadband into every home. it's an investment worth making and this act and that's what speaker pelosi wants to see us pass the heros act. we need to have community health centers, federally qualified community health centers all over this country. it will cost around $65 billion. worth the expenditure. if we had those kind of expenditures how many jobs would be created and given broadband into every home. how many jobs will be created in community health centers for everybody? 10, 20, 30? spend at least 10% of this money. 20% of more of the population is stuck beneath the poverty level for the last 30uplifted.

so these things, we've got to get people to understand this is what this election means to you. this is what it means to your family. this is what it means to your community. and to the extent that joe biden can make those three connections, and that's not the trilogy, but make those three connections will determine the outcome of his election. >> all right. majority whip jim clyburn of south carolina, thank you so much. it's always great to see you, jim. up to see you in south carolina very soon. >> look forward to it. i hope mika gets back up and it will be a meal waiting for you. >> i will be at lizard thicket

with you. our next guests have spent a lot of time researching the evangelicals more devoted to donald trump than some of the past teachings of the church. investigative reporter sarah posner, the author of the book "unholy, why white evangelicals worship at the altar of donald trump." and "why evangelicals chose political power of christian values." ben, i was thinking about you when i saw donald trump the other day march over to st. john's hold up a bible like he had never seen one before and got there, got there by having his attorney general clear out peaceful protesters with rubber bullets and spray and brute force. you know, you and i grew up in

the southern baptist church, sprent most of our young adult young lives there, and i just can't remember any part of the gospels, any of those red letters that came close to advocating what we saw in front of our very eyes a few days ago. >> yeah, and i think for me the most disappointing part is usually not what trump himself does. i feel like at this point i know who trump is and what he is going to do. generally speaking, he is selling trump stakes, you know, everywhere he goes. christianity is the trump stake for him right now. what's disappointing is the amount of people that i grew up with or went to church with who think that it's fantastic that a man can say and do the things that donald trump does, stand in front of a camera for five minutes, hold up a bible and

allegedly this is the bravery we've all been waiting for. this is going to upend any negative views about christianity is that donald trump does that. they often compare him to biblical figures, sinful biblical figures who ended up being prophets like jonah or david or whoever. but none of those men in the bible were lauded for those bad things. they overcame them. they became someone better. they didn't just hold up the bible, keep doing the same things that they were doing before and everybody celebrated the fact that they are their own man and can, you know, go out there and be a playboy and everything else while advocating for christianity. it's not how it worked back then. it shouldn't be how it works now. it's not that he isn't be a sinful person. we are all sinful people. it's that it's celebrated.

it's often cited as refreshing. i hear people say sometimes, you know, are christians, a lot of christians don't want to admit that they are voting for him because he obstructs their values, et cetera. the really disappointing thing is they don't want people to know that they love a lot of it. they love a lot of it. and when he's mean to the -- to anyone, when he is calling out the press in a demonic way, when he is using christian leaders to spread a false gospel, they think it's great. >> sarah, it's willie geist. your book explores this aligliae between christian conservatives and president trump. we heard it a thousand times, when asked, why do you stand by president trump given everything you know about him, cheating on his wife with a porn star, not able to cite a bible verse, they say we elected a president and

not a saint. so how do you explain as you write this book and do your interviews and your investigations that they stick with him through thick and thin? >> they stick with him through thick and thin because they believe that he is defending them from the leftists or the anarchists or for example right now they believe they are destroying the streets of america. to them he is protecting white christian america from destruction. and so it doesn't matter that he has lied, sexually assaulted women, committed all kinds of political corruption, tear gassed protesters in lafayette park on monday night. to them he is heroic. to them that was a sign of strength.

so every time we have a -- you know, every day is a crisis in the trump presidency, but every time we have a big crisis like impeachment or what's going on right now, everybody looks to some voices like ben's, for example, or the christianity today editorial back in december that called for trump's impeachment and they think, oh, this is the moment that's going to change how white evangelicals view trump and they are going to turn on him, but that never comes to pass. so you might hear a few people speak out against what trump did on monday, but in reality the self-reinforcing bubble that white evangelicals exist on social media, in church, other organizations that they subscribe to or belong to, in these circles trump is being portrayed as a strong figure who

went over to the church to defend religious freedom. >> claire mccaskill is with us. she has a question. claire. >> sarah, i'm curious about pat rotter son speaking out. i was struck by that. it is incredibly unusual that a strongly visible white evangelical leader is actually criticizing president trump. will that cause any wobble in this community? i mean, obviously, the fact that donald trump has never opened a bible, you would think that would have some impact. but we're obviously disappointed it doesn't appear to have had any impact on this religious community. will a leader like robertson speaking out have any impact? >> no, because when you look around and see what other people are saying, like, for example, franklin graham took to facebook this morning and said that he --

he lamented the murder of george floyd, but he said he was not offended by what trump did on monday. he was actually encouraged by it. and he said that the clergy who are criticizing trump, particularly the episcopal diocese in washington, whose church was the target of this, he said that they should be thanking him, not criticizing him. and so i think that that is much more of the prevailing view right now because trump, you know, in the social media and media that evangelicals absorb, the protesters are often depicted as leftist outsiders that trump is trying to protect american streets from. and so trump is, like i said, portrayed as the defender of america in this view. and then he'll also do something like he did yesterday, which was sign an executive order

international religious freedom, which bounces everything back to something that he did to protect religious freedom even though on monday night he tear gassed clergy on the patio of st. john's helping protesters, giving them water and snacks and so forth. so this is a very typical back and forth with trump and his evangelical base to keep them in the supportive camp. >> sarah posner, thank you so much. the new book "unholy," and ben howl, sorry we only had time for one question. we want to get you back very soon. we are up against a hard break. thank you as well for being with us. willie. >> thanks for having me. >> joe, retired police officer david dorn was shot and killed early tuesday morning by looters at a pawn shop in st. louis, missouri. the 77-year-old was shot in the

torso and died on the sidewalk in front of lee's pawn and julie on martin luther king drive. it was captured on facebook live during a night of violence and destruction in st. louis. 55 businesses reportedly were burglarized or damaged that night. police have yet to make any arrests. they have no suspects at this point. authorities have announced a $10,000 reward for information. officer dorn was a captain in the st. louis police department where he served for 38 years. his wife telling "st louis post-dispatch" he went to help his friend protect a pawn shop and he was killed. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. ♪ hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle. it's wednesday, june 3rd. here's what's happening at this hour. america waking up this morning after demonstrations large and small were