stephenson's overwhelming memorial to linking, and go into the small store for a beverage or a t-shirt, that book is among the items on sale when you arrive there completely numb from your experience of seeing that memorial. which we recommend to all americans who can visit. jelani cobb, we are always made better by your appearances. thank you so much. try to enjoy your wuneekend, bu thank you for being with us. a far better than expected jobs report for the month of may. our next guest cautions, there are many details and caveats to know about.

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earlier we brought you the president's comments from this morning which could stand for all-time as the kind of intersection of ebullience and hyperbole. he turn now to the latest on the u.s. economy. the subject he took on this morning, which is still grappling with, of course, the long-term consequences of a pandemic. but to the surprise of many economists, the unemployment rate for the month of may fell, but to a rate of 13.3%, as the economy, we're told, gained 2.5 million jobs. this comes as businesses across the country slowly start to

reopen after the pandemic destroyed all of the job gains dating back to the '08 recession. the part that did not surprise us, the president was quick to congratulate himself for this news. a whole three minutes after the numbers were released. here is how former vice president joe biden responded to the president's attempt at a economic victory lap. >> today, like all americans, i'm truly glad to see that 2.5 million americans have gotten their jobs back. for those families, that's a sigh of relief. i was disturbed, however, to see the president crowing this morning, basically hanging a mission accomplished banner out there, when there's so much more work to be done. so many americans are still hurting. >> joining our conversation,

chrisley liu. take us through the numbers. the picture is convoluted. what do you see and understand? >> yes. in the first cold war a shock to many. most who look at these numbers, certainly say they're positive but add a lot of caveats to this. bureau of labor sticks that collects the numbers cautions the response rate was lower than what it normally is, because they're having a hard time collecting data remotely. seems technical, but a reason to wonder about the accuracy of these numbers. they also suggested that people who were unemployed may have been classified as employed and that may have adjusted the numbers by 3%. the unemployment rate was really 16% versus 13%. all of that said, look, 2.5

million jobs created is certainly a good thing, but let's also put it in context. 20 million jobs lost in the last three months. more the twice the number of jobs lost during the great recession. unemployment rate is 13.3%. in a is a higher than what it was at the peak of the great recession. ironically, unemployment numbers went down for white american, it actually went up for black americans, and i think that continues to highlight so many of the systemic inequalities we've talked about during the pandemic and obviously over the last week especially. >> can you just take on this sort of complicated braid of risk of working from home? which is sort of the new luxury good? right? i can do my job from my home. that is a luxury. not everybody has that luxury. can you take on the complicated picture of bringing jobs back, of sending people back to work as the pandemic continues to threaten all americans?

>> nichole, i mean, the president is forgetting. 1,000 people are still dieing every day. we are in the middle of a public health crisis. and the u.s. economy is dependent on confidence.

it's the confidence of business businesses that if they open people will show up. workers that can go to work safely. customers who can go out to a shopping mall and not get sick. unless there's that confidence people aren't going back to spend money. and working remote, as many have, creates strong d disaffectiveness to go back to work. 25% capacity, 50% capacity. more broadly look at industries like travel and tourism. those are going to take a much longer time to bounce back, which is one of the reasons why you're seeing so many layoffs from companies like united airlin >> indeed. contribution i just in the break before looked at the list of the fastest emerging cases. the highest numbers today. california, texas, florida. north carolina, all places where we note the weather is warm. and people are back at some perform form of opening up. are we in the uncomfortable position of looking critically at good economic news today, while the president is in the familiar position of as he likes to put it cheerlead for numbers that would very dearly match the flat line he wants? >> look, i mean, when people get jobs we should always applaud that, but understand this -- we're in the hole right now by 20 million jobs and we've come only a small bit up. the president says it's like a

rocket ship. a rocket ship only come part way up. we need to see what happens. the biggest mistake congress and the president can take, take a premature victory lap and assume no more economic relief is necessary. we know suspended unemployment benefit expire in july and will be faceding double digit unemployment rates well in to the fall if not through most of next year. that's a lot of people who will need additional assistance. we know that a lot of companies particularly small businesses are still struggling to get back up and running, which, again, bodes in favor of more loans. more importantly, we know there's another wave of layoffs coming down the road in state and local governments. not just new york. the ohio, it's georgia. it's michigan. they're returning billion dollar deficits and they have said, unless we get assistance from the federal government, we're going to start laying off police and teachers and firefighters. that's millions of additional

people that could lose their job, and congress would be wrong to take the foot off the accelerator right now. >> chris liu, thank you for spending time with us, and shedding context on these numbers. and, brian, this is that time of the hour when we lose you but i have to say, your hour has become the new morning show. the new beginning of what's to come. i turn it on. i bring some popcorn and i wait to see what is unfolding on the streets of our cities. it's moving. it's wrenching. it's hard to watch, but you always -- have the best people there to talk us through it. >> yeah, but enough about my body clock. it is true. all of these nights have had way too much action in the streets of our country. though looked at another way, this is the kind of thing as jelani cobb was reminding us and eddie glaude reminded us that brings about change and gets people riled up and paying

attention. thank you for having me. have a good weekend. i'll be watching your show. >> we'll be watching yours. when we return, rising concerns over a new spike in coronavirus cases as thousands of people have taken to the streets often tightly packed together and only sometimes wearing masks, to express anger and outrage, and grief, over racial injustice in this country. stay with us. your mission: stand up to moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. and take. it. on... ...with rinvoq. rinvoq a once-daily pill...

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police brew date and racial injustice will amplify the other crisis still ongoing in america. the coronavirus pandemic, because of images like these. thousands, thousands of protesters, almost all peaceful, packed into close quarters shouting and chanting. only some wearing masks or any effective protection from the virus' spread. in a country where more than 108,000 americans have died and more than 1.8 million have been made sick by covid. donald trump has tried for weeks to move this on to anything, spotlight on to anything other than the coronavirus pandemic and now other friend jonathan lemire of the associated press reports the trump white house new kearns events that finally eclipses a pandemic, protests around the country will cause a resurgence in coronavirus. joining our conversation a primary care physician, brookings institute fellow and former worker for the obama

administration and doctor, we're lucky to have you as a brand new nbc news medical contributor. benefit to us trying to understand this and all of our viewers. doctor, take me through what you see when you see these crowds who weren't going anywhere? this is part of our new normal, part of our pandemic response. right? to keep these it crowds safe. what do you see and hope for hem in terms of presenting themselves and their families? >> you're right, nichole. you see in many cases peaceful protests people even wearing both non-medical masks and trying to exhibit what we'll call silent protesting. they're not shouting. where we know there's a potential for spread of the virus. and in many cases people are following recommendations to try to be as safe as possible, protesting with somebody you know. carrying hand sanitizer, things like that. having said all of that, it is still a pretty big setup for the spread of the virus, and i think

that as a health person, myself, in a public health background, we need to figure out how to give the people ability to protest safely and safeguards to get tested and you see cities and states recommending that and also figure out how to protect if the you are exposed, protect others from getting exposed to you. i think that's going to be a critical phase over the next several weeks. >> doctor, one thing that, for the last ten weeks you've been so good at is just telling people what to do. i mean if you're watching now, getting ready to head out to another protest what should you do? >> basic things. absolutely make sure you have a mask. i would even carry extra, because you might be in a position, in a cramped quarters and handing out a mask is far better than being confronted with people not wearing them. again, trying to kind of identify people you know who are low risk to go with. eye protection in many cases,

seeing tear gas used. that's not safe obviously, for people's skin and eyes. then hand sanitizers. i would also definitely recommend that people let others know where they are so that if there is anything that comes out that's violent, that they can kind of safely check in with loved ones remotely, and finally, i would be pretty comfortable advocating for yourself to get tested, not immediately. remember, this is something that the virus doesn't necessarily show up on a test in the first hours even first couple of days. we're recommending people get tested at five to seven days after you think you might have been exposed to somebody with the virus. >> let me ask you about your policymaker, put your policymaker hat on now. governor cuomo made comments the protests are taking place right as my home town of new york city is getting ready, the city is ready to begin phase one of their reopening.

what are your concerns as a policymaker about this collision of people doing thing wes haven't done much of for nine weeks at the very moment some of the hardest-hit areas are the biggest concern is having these hot spots emerge without having the adequate testing or tracing in place. we already heard from the cdc director that we still need to do more and contact tracing. we've made progress in testing running millions of tests a week. if you think about the very communities that were last to get tested, it is some of the communities of color in which many of the protests are taking place. we should be putting in policies and tracing to go into communities and be part of the trusted element so that people feel confidemfortable coming fo.

i would hope as we go through phase one and some states are in phase two that we can do that sooner rather than later. >> it's always great to hear from you and to hear your sound and measured advice. thanks for spending some time with us. coming up, the view from overseas after days of unrest in the country. e country. wayfair, you spend less and get way more. so you can bring your vision to life and save in more ways than one. for small prices, you can build big dreams. spend less, get way more. shop everything home at wayfair today. this moment right now... this is our commencement.

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for world war ii. you see this scanned-in, handwritten document. the most striking detail is her age. she was only 17. knowing that she saw this thing happening and was brave enough to get involved and do something- that was eye opening. find an honor your ancestors who served in world war ii. their stories live on at ancestry. we are not alone. striking images this week show thousands of protesters from all around the world taking to the streets marching in solidarity with americans to express their outrage over the brutal death of george floyd under the knee of a minneapolis police officer. joining us from london, nbc news senior international correspondent. these images were so moving. you take them next to the washington post reporting from greg miller earlier in the week that intelligence officials,

former and present see some hallmarks of the american government looking a lot like governments overseas and around the world look just before they fall. >> reporter: yeah. you know, these are uncertain times. i'm not going to make the mistake that we make of pretending i can predict the future but let me put it to you like this. just think about the fact that one of these was used, a number of them to film the death of man at the hands of police on streets of minneapolis and that that video then got sent around the world and caused these protests to take place about that and about their own injustices in their own countries around the world. think about the arab spring and how that changed across the middle east happened after one man died at the hands of an awe

t authoritarian regime and it's about inspri ratiiration and ou. we have seen on television screens around the world, the images of american policing. an australian news roreporter w pushed over and her camera man on live australian morning televisi television. the fact is that american politics has been important to the world for a long time. think about 1940, the way this country and europe held its breath to see if roosevelt would get reelected but it's different, isn't it, when ordinary americans can connect with ordinary people around the world with up with of these. >> keir, we are always out of time. we never have enough time. you have to come back on monday because we have now got another situation that i want your reporting on where former senior military officials are really voicing concern about the sitting president.

i'm dying to know how that's playing in world capitals. we'll put a pin in it. tbd. have great weekend. thanks for joining us. >> reporter: thank you. coming up, donald trump, as i just said, increasingly at odds with top military leaders. deadline white house, next. plap

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huge crowds took to the streets o of american cities last night. the demonstrations overwhelmingly peaceful but shocking shows of force by police dominating the head lieps. images like these that out of buffalo new york. we want to warn you they are disturbing. a 75-year-old man pushed to the ground when he approached a wall of law especially forcement officers. the man hit his head and lay on the ground bleeding. buffalo police initially put out a statement saying the man had tripped which is clearly not the case. since then they have suspended the two police officers involved an opened an investigation. we should note that as of this morning, the man pictured here was in serious but stable condition. donald trump hasn't backed off his plan to use federal forces to restore order. last night he tweeted out a letter from his former lawyer calling the protesters outside the white house earlier this week terrorists. the demonstrators have a growing

chorus of former senior military officials. three former top military leaders wade sboog the mushrooming crisis for the president seeking to militarize the response weighed in today. >> you're not going to use, whether it's a military or the national guard or law enforcement to clear peaceful american citizens for the president of the united states to do a photo op. there's nothing morally right about that. >> the idea that the military would be called in to dominate and to suppress what for the most part, were peaceful protests, admittedly were some had turned them violent and that the military would come in and calm that situation was very dangerous to me. >> as i understand it, that was peaceful protest that was disturbed by force and that's

not right. i was sad. we should shed tears over that particular act. just this afternoon more than 200 security officials lents their voices to that chorus condemning trump's response to the protest in a new let r shared with foreign policy magazine. the kas kads of attacks on trump's position comes on the heels of former defense secretary mattis's scathing critiq critique. he was backed up by john kelly in remarkable q and a with anthonyscaramucci. >> he's quite a man. >> do you agree with him john in. >> i agree with him. i think we need to look harder at who we elect. i think we should start, all of us, regardless of what our views on politics.

i think we should look at people that are running for office. >> the president at odds with former military leaders, including some that worked for him, is where we start today. john kelly, former white house chief of staff, saying one, he agrees with secretary mattis, who among other things compared

donald trump's pension for division with the nazis, saying he agrees with them and it matters who we elect. how is that going over today at the white house? >> the president is interested in doubling down on the way that he wants to handle the protesters. he's doubling down on the idea that the u.s. law enforcement including the national guard and people in military gear should be the ones policing people who are peacefully protesting. there are current and former generals say they are worried america is turning into an authoritarian government. i was talking to a source in florida today and they said what took these generals so long. the country has been through so much. john kelly oversaw the

separation of immigrant children from their families. they are also the president saying they are very fine people at a nazi rally. some people think even though they are admiralable for speaking out but they are speaking out too late and let so many other things go by that were also important. >> i'm so glad you said that. you sort of popped the cork on my burning rage that they took so long to say this. this president was impeached and he stood in front of the senate. there was an opportunity for republicans to be persuaded to hear from a witness. someone who saw, up close, exactly what general mattis saw which was the president who lacks the maturity and i think his point, lacks the fitness for the office he hold pps this former national security official says, look, we have an election, maybe this voices will make it clear what stakes are. what is the sort of calculation around this president that some of these former aides might

endorse joe biden? >> that would be remarkable if that happened. i'm not quite sure we have reached that point yet. what we have seen is these generals and these military leaders, their words are mattering to republicans that donald trump needs to win the election. lisa murkowski is saying she is not sure she will be able to back donald trump which is extraordinary. i think he's worried about the idea he might lose the faith of these military leaders and lose the faith in lot of rank and file republican who is feel like they have weathered storm after storm, scandal after scandal. i think the other thing to notice is there's ski constituency like white men with college educations or white women who are living in the suburbs or white seniors looking at these military leaders and saying if they are alarmed, how might i back the president if these people are speaking out?

>> frank, there are only two things on the menu. the country had to eat. there's two choices and if they are so alarm fed in the span of4 hours, that three military leaders have spoken out if john kelly deep inside the west wing of every minute of every hour of every day has now co-signed jim mattis rebuke of donald trump's character, his lack of leadership and his lack of understanding what the american presidency is supposed to be, how is the obvious next step not even if it's a reluctant or hesitant embrace of the alternative for the sake of the institutions they have taken an oath to protect, for the sake of the constitution they are spoken out they feel is being trampled by donald trump's order, to militarize and federalize the police policing these peaceful demonstrations, how do they not take that next step?

>> in my old line of work, ill call these clues. these are clues in the form of people who are inside telling us what's going to happen, what is happening and how troubling it is. i'll go a step further. we have more investigative clues they should shape our thinking. i'm calling the next five months in the history of our country the coming chaos. here are some more clues. when the president of the united states refers to the peaceful protesters in the park as terrorists, when the president of the united states tweets that he wants to designate the most active opponents he has as a domestic terrorism organization, when the attorney general of the united states designates an entire law enforcementing a si, the drug enforcement agency has authorized with full federal powers to surveil and monitor protesters, those are clues about the coming chaos and what we're in for for the next five

years. the choice we have is the demise of civil liberties and freedom of speech that are the clues we're seeing or the alternative which is the preservation of the rule of law. those are the choices. >> you gave the country some pretty stark choices to choose from in terms of who we are and who we're going to be. let me play bit of your eulogy yesterday. >> the reason why we are marching all over the world is we were like george. we couldn't breathe. not because it was something wrong with our lungs but you wouldn't take your knee off our neck. we don't want no favors. just get up off of us and we can be and do whatever we can be. >> rev, 74% of americans would

seem to agree with you. a 30% increase in the number of americans who believe that recent events reflect a broader issue over racial injustice. i think that's up 26 points from 2015, which obviously was in the wake of some tragic police shootings and deaths the year before that. what do you make of this moment? you are part of it now. your place in it. >> i really think we are at a very different moment that i don't think this president understands. i spoke about it during the eulogy. i think he's on the wrong time period because for him to be talking about militarization and trying to criminalize or make terrorists out of peaceful protesters, on the day we're having the memorial service for

mr. floyd it shows how tone deaf and insensitive he is. to say today that george floyd would be proud of the unemployment numbers because some numbers went up when the black unemployment numbers are higher than they've been in ten years is an insensitivity. first of all, george floyd would have been happy to see a man not put his knee on his neck. something this president has not addressed through the office of president. that is saying his justice department, we need to deal with practice and patterns of certain police departments which the obama administration had done in the city of baltimore and chicago and other cities. we need to deal with federal law that will hold police accountable. he is not addressing the issues. he's trying to use the distraction of some who are wrong to loot and engage in violence but they did not represent the overwhelmingly

majority of the protesters and they were not the people that were in layfette park the night they used all kinds of things to move them out so he can do a photo op with a boarded church that had been the victim of violence and stand up with a bible and i still say i've been in church all my life. i was a boy preacher until i became an adult preacher, i've never seen anybody hold a bible like that. >> is the white house surprised by the blow back from that press stunt that the rev just talked about? inthe times and others reported it was ivanka's idea. hope meadows was involved in carrying it out. i think they blthrew ivanka und the bus for that. you have mattis being pushed to speak out. former senior national security official told me today he wouldn't be surprised to see esper and maybe millie forced to

resign over the pressure building still within former military circles. you think they are surprised by the reaction? >> i think reverend sharpton put it best in that there's a question of whether or not president trump a and the white house really understands the moment through which we're all living. the president wanted to have a photo op and the people around him thought it was a good idea. maybe it was ivanka's idea. in the middle of a protest where people are demanding rights and equality be respect, the president moved him around and took his casual walk. maybe they were thinking this isn't the best optics. i think maybe they are surprised. i will tell you just what happened today doubles down the idea this was a white house that's focussed on optics and sometimes it backfires and sometimes it works. i was in the rose garden today and i went and sat down with bunch of other reporters and our

seats were close together. we were wondering why they were so close together. the president during his speech said, we're doing so well, even the reporters are sitting close together. he was using us as props as they put out today the statement put out. he was literally making us sit closer together because the white house thought it looks better. that was the answer we were given. he is violating social distancing policies and forcing my body to be closer to someone else. they are thinking about the optics of a press conference. i know if they are surprised by the blow back of that move but it seems the white house is about optics and they think maybe we'll get the blow back and maybe we won't. if it's bad or good, it's still benefitting the president in some people's minds. >> frank, if we looring at another country, we would call it propaganda.

what do you see? >> my career in intelligence and foreign counter intelligence cause me to study failed state, states that are about to fail or over throw leaders. there are marked similarities that are deeply disturbing no matter where you are politically on the spectrum. we have a president that is trying to divide us. i think we need to start wopdserring whosht the optics bother him or the push back bothers him. we have seen the strategy. the strategy is to divide and conquer. to use a narrative that puts us in battle space. that refers to american streets as battlegrounds and put active

duty boots on the ground in american cities. he relishes the idea that people are appalled at his behavior because it further splits and divides that you're either for law and order or you're for the terrorists. it's black and white. it's simple and simple solutions don't -- are not what's needed now. let's stop looking at whether there's surprise. let's look at it as a strategy that's going to get us into failed state if we don't refuse that narrative. >> our colleague says watch what they do and not what they say. i want to turn to personal and ask you to tell us how george floyd's family is doing. how his kids are doing? now were with them all day. >> they are a very strong

family. i dealt with a lot of families down through the years. they are very strong. they are looking at this ends up in some way to bring about a more just society. they are really focused on justice and making sure that george didn't die for nothing and they are very, very solid people. i've bp very impressed in my dealings with them. i want to rejoin them in houston for the final religious funeral and burial. i braugought the mother of eric garner down and the father of michael brown from ferguson came, who understand each other's pain. i think that really has encouraged them is to see the tens of thousands of people, white and black that are marching all over the world and they've said do it peaceful. that's what's happening. i think people get it. when you can look at a man on

the ground, eight minutes and 46 seconds, that's why i think the funeral for people to stand there that long and stand at home so people would understand, wait a minute, there's all kind of time here for you to realize to stop this. when you can do that and then we see today a tape of a 75-year-old white man pushed like that and they just keep walking past him, that is what this white house doesn't get. people are saying that we're all at risk and this must stop. whether you're a 46-year-old black man in minneapolis, minnesota begging for your life or a 75-year-old white man in buffalo, policing must be accountable. >> how are you? where is your head on all of this? i watched your eulogy and i know the times up, are we done? are we changing right now? >> i think we're not done.

i hope it's the last one and i hope i don't have to console another family and i end up there again. it's my life. that's what i'm committed to do. that's what i feel i was born to do. i can't tell you that you don't get moments of being discouraged but when i see a lot of people now, i told the story and i'll say it quickly if the eulogy. i remember when i was march in places like minneapolis in protest and i've had young whites say the n word to me, go home. last week when i was there thursday, a young white girl look like about 11 years old, pulled my coat tail and said, reverend, al, i turned around and braced myself waiting for her to say something ugly and she said no justice, no peace. she gave me the inspiration yesterday to do that eulogy. >> i love that story. i love when you told it last night. i'm glad you told it again for anyone that missed it.

rev, i hope you're right. i hope that the future is in that 11-year-old's heart. thank you. thank you for everything you do and everything you did yesterday and thanks for joining us today. >> thank you. thank you all for spending some time with us. as we go to break, you're looking at the newly renamed black lives matter plaza near the white house. it's d.c.'s answer to a city still reeling from the way federal officials are hand ming the protests there. when we come back we'll talk to two experts and ask who leads the conversation in law enforcement about reforming law enforcementme enforcement. . has this week been a turning point in the 2020 election. trump losing his military and falling behind in some must win states. all those stories coming up. machine states all osthe stories coming up. machin patitis c... ...i felt i couldn't be at my... ...best for my family. in only 8 weeks with mavyret... ...i was cured. i faced reminders of my hep c every day. i worried about my hep c.

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. striking images today. massive yellow letters spelling out plaqblack lives matter. it's painted on 16th street that leads to the white house. the area where on monday peaceful protesters were aggressively cleared to make room for donald trump's photo op in front of a church. d.c.'s mayor naming that particular section of the street, black lives matter plaza. those symbols of peace and the right to protest stand in stark contrast to the increased federal policing d.c. has seen this week. tanks droeve down street, helicopters flew low and unidentified federal officers patrol the streets. the mayor spoke about this last night with our friend rachel maddow. >> because of our lack of state

hood, the federal government can encroach on our city streets in name of protecting federal assets. that's what's been done here. i think it's unprecedented that state troopers from other states have been brought into the district and these unnamed other federal police officers. you make a very good point. we know some of the agencies who are here. we don't know why they don't have any identifying marks and none of them should be armed. >> joining us now, two people who advise this country's top law enforcement agency about the law.

how is it legal for unidentified federal law enforcement agencies officials to be roaming the streets of d.c. what is the answer to that? >> i'm going to give you lawyers answer which is it depends. the first issue is this idea they are unidentified. taking my role as the former fbi general counsel, i would need to know whether my people are being asked to do something because there's limited legal authority at the federal level to be taking action. one of the problems is each agency has a general council that needs to accept the legality of what's being asked.

that's the small picture. the big picture is it turns on its head that these are public ser vantvants servants. that mean they work for us. the idea they can say we're not going to tell you, our client, the people who pay us, we're not going tell you who we are gets this backwards and shows the people in power. >> lisa, it's been reported that attorney general barr made the call the clear the park and it's been reported that he's in command of this police force or whatever we are to call them. >> it raises a lot of questions. federal law enforcement was

mobilized quickly. i'm curious whether it's clear to them what the rules of engagement are. what's their mission? what's their jury dictiisdictio operating? to whom are they reporting? these are important questions. from my experience at the fbi, i presume the fbi agents on the street are there to investigate violation of federal criminal law what does that look like in the context of peaceful protests or crowd control. if a water bottle gets thrown, is that a violation of criminal law. does it need the be on federal property? these are important questions that need to be answered both for law enforcement so they understand the lanes in the road and when to engage and when not so they can stay safe. al for protesters so they know what's expected of them and what they need to do in order to not run a foul of federal law enforcement. >> lisa, to that point, someone

who spent time in iraq after the first years of the iraq war said it's similar to war zone. no one knows who is in charge and it's an incredibly dangerous situation not just for the people protesting but for the actual law enforcement officials. i imagine they are less safe for being anonymous, very having an unclear chain of command. do you think any of them want to be there? >> i think you're right. moreover, what's the basis for not identifying them as an agency. these are not cia operatives on the street of kabul. these are law enforcement officers in washington, d.c. how can there be any meaningful oversight if you can't identify who you're engaging with? it's baffling. it's hard to understand what basis their identities are being withheld. >> andrew, i was to ask both of

you, what's your sort of impressions are from working at the highest levels of the national security apparatus of this country, protecting this country from foreign threats, domestic threats to see three generals coming out rebuking the decision to militarize and federalize the policing of protesters and see general mattis who worked for donald trump for the vast majority of what's been his term as president compare him to someone who is as divisive as the nazis were who did not view very a single day his mission to unite the country. how does that land? >> obviously this is a remarkable time as you know, it's hard to be very sanguine

but the one thing people should take heart is the military, like a lot of people in domestic law enforcement are trained to obey the constitution. i think seeing people in the military have sort of i am spartacus moment where they are saying we will not do something and we disapprove of something that violates the constitution and that the military should not be drawn into some domestic politics and should not blame the relationship with its civilian population is very heartening to see as much as it's depressing to think about how we got here. it's nice to see the military standing up. it's very reminisce sent of right after 9/11 when there was a lot of litigation about

guantanamo. the military insisted the military rights and due process be afforded to the people there. it's nice to see there's that tradition that's being upheld. >> all right. andrew and lisa are staying with us. i'm going to ask both of them more about the person at the top of the justice department during these extraordinary times. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. mes. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. i just assumed all bladder leak pads felt the same. but nothing makes me feel like new always discreet boutique. outside, it's soft like underwear. inside, it turns liquid to gel. for incredible protection, that feels like nothing but my underwear. new always discreet boutique.

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my interest was to carry out the law enforcement functions of the federal government and to protect federal facilities and personnel. there's no correlation between our tactical plan of moving the perimeter out by one block and the president's going over to

the church. >> the things that are said from that podium. that was attorney general bill barr casting his decision on monday as having nothing to do with the president's movement. whatever it had to do with it resulted in an aggressive approach to clearing largely peaceful protesters from the area outside the white house. barr denying that trump's clurj photo op had anything to do with it. democrats not satisfied. mark warner renewing his call for barr's resignation and senator kamala harris demanding an investigation be started right now. andrew and lisa page are still here. first of all, i won't put you on the spot but to my mind it's long in a line of a string of more spinning performances than truth telling that attorney general barr has undertaken from that podium but where would an investigation into barr start?

what would it examine? >> one thing it's already started is there a federal lawsuit in washington, d.c. that was filed yesterday but the aclu alleging the violation of first amendment, fourth amendment and zif civil rights violations and that's a lawsuit in which if that goes forward, the attorney general and others can be deposed very much like to see that have the attorney general would answer the questions and have follow ups in response to the clip that you just showed because that is what's calmly known in the legal profession as doesn't pass the laugh test. that's absurd. >> some oversight of general

barr. none of those efforts have born fruit yet. weighing deep into a criminal investigation of the origins into the russia investigation by john durham and a myriad of other issues that donald trump has asked him to pursue. what do you make of democratic senators calling into barr's actions this week in this moment in this political climate? >> i mean i appreciate the effort but i think what's more important to recognize here is how fragile the rule of law is. how much it depends on norms and the exercise of restraint. what you see here is the exact opposite of that. you see an attorney general who doesn't feel bound by the norms that his predecessors have. who is willing to mischaract mischaracterize the conclusions of mueller report. who is willing to overturn career prosecutors in a sentencing determination and

willing to withdraw a plea by somebody who, in the case of michael flynn, pleds twice based on a cooperation agreement. i appreciate the senate's efforts. i think so long as there's a republican senate, they are very eager to continue investigating the russia probe. i give them my best but i think it's unlikely. i'm not sure they will get much traction. >> andrew, you've spent so much time on our air covering so much of what we talk about and what's public facing. covering the trial. imagine if general mattis and three chairman of the joint chiefs had spoken out while that chapter of the trump presidency was playing out. you think things would have been

different? >> this issue of when you speak out is a difficult one. people who are former government officials there's less of a reason not to speak out. it's nice to see that generals actually taking a stand here. speak up when you see things that are wrong. it is fair. it's incup bents on people, including people in the senate to speak up.

>> there was only one, lisa murkowski, the rest, mostly taking pass, scurrying off to answer phones. what do you make of this moment and people choosing this moment to speak out? some people said it's too little too late. others have said better now than never. >> i do think it's better now than never. it isn't easy to be courageous. it isn't easy know you're going to open yourself up to attack. while i am marginally sympathetic to the lawmakers, they swore an oath to the constitution as well. we hear over and over again about the quiet whispers how appalled they are by this administration's behavior. now is the time. i am hopeful that courage begets courage and as you see mattis

and john kelly finally speaking out, acknowledging what they saw. talking about fitness of this person to be president, i am hopeful that it will inspire others to also take a courageous stand, put the country before their own egos and before their own interests and speak out as well. >> andrew, thank you both so much for spending some time with us. after the break, if this week was a leadership test for donald trump, it seems many americans think he failed it. the state of the race for president, coming up. race for president, coming up

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in five months time when the 2020 election day is behind us, we think, we hope, we might look back on this week as a major turning point. axios says trump trump's handling of makes republicans much more worried about his chance of re-election. his action a the church may have hurt him. the high marks that white evangelicals were giving the president earlier this year have slipped as the rallying effect that boosted him at the giping of the coronavirus crisis has faded. that's part of larger erosion of

support. down nine points in wisconsin. arizona down four. perhaps most notably in texas the state trump won by nine points in 16, a poll shows the two candidates basically in a statistical tie. let's bring from my friend, former colleague on tcampaign trail and other places. steve, you're also playing a role, i think, in weakening this president's political standing with the lincoln project. talk about the strategy behind what you guys are doing. >> i think when you look at this race, it's an hour of shooding. there was a prospect put to the country three years ago by donald trump which said, hey, you don't like the direction the country is going, what could be wro wrong? what would be worse? pick me. we know there's a real lack of imagination for tragedy in this country. we sit in middle of pandemic where the united states is the

epicenter because of president trump's incompetent handling of it. 100,000 dead american, food lines, 40 million people unemployed. shattered economy and now civil unrest that the president has incited throughout this process in violence towards constitutional protected free speech and assembly by peaceful protesters cull miminating with direct order of the attorney general of the united states includining the gassing of a priest so donald trump can commit sacrillige and holding a bible upside down. we see a mean, incomptent with no worry, care or concern to the exceptional qualities of the country which are the freedoms we enjoy. the freedom of speech to protest, to petition our

government, to assemble in grievance. >> steve, i heard you on rachel maddow talking about the incredibly high bar for military leaders to speak out. there were three more since you made those more since you made those comments. chairman dempsey and chairman myers and the third has escaped me. but we now have -- admiral mccraven speaking on "morning joe." we have general kelley cosigning and secretary mat disindictment of donald trump where he basically compares business divisiveness to the nazi objectives of division. talk about this moment with the u.s. military for donald trump with our chommander in chief? >> the feeling is the retired four-star officers to defend the integrity of the institution. the armed forces of the united states to defend their honor.

the united states military is an apolitical institution. that is essential. united states military serves the nation. it's not the private militia of attorney general barr who is acting like he is the interior minister of some thug ocrasy. military serves the nation and its members swear on oath to defend the constitution of the united states. so donald trump has precipitated the greatest crises since military relations in a very, very long time, make going back to truman and macarthur but its much more serious now because what donald trump has threatened to do is turn the most lethal combat force in history against the people it's dedicated to serve, breaking the bonds of affection between the american people in the military. the military officers who were faithful to the constitution want no part of that. i think they view it an immoral

and legal order. i think they are deeply worried about the misuse and abuse of the military. remember, people should have spoken out more when donald trump abused the military by sending them to the border for a photo op, pretending we were about to be invaded by a panzer column that was a figment of his attention. the abuse of the military is being called out by the most senior leaders to protected one of the most important institutions in the country and to remind everybody that the threat to liberty is not the protesters. the threat to liberty is the person who ordered the firing on the protesters, the person who ordered their gassing, the person who ordered that they be pepper sprayed. that is the threat to liberty in this country. >> steve schmidt, it's never enough time with you. we have to work on that. find a way to spend more time talking about these things. thank you so much, my friend. after the break, remembering lives well lived. r the break, rg lives well lived and right now,

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♪ we are living at a historic intersection. two of once in generation of events happening simultaneously. the protests and the pandemic. important to remember the coronavirus didn't disappear. some 108,000 americans have lost their lives and they, too, deserve our attention. takes sterling matthews. a 60-year-old veteran in virginia. his wife insisted you can't throw people away. another thing to say it and another thing to live it. he mentored young men in richmond and won an award signed by president obama and he was a deacon and sunday school teacher. a few years ago whether stories from their own sons, sterling and their wife brought his baby

niece into their home. the good he brought into this world very much lives on. same for paul granger. tough to be an ambulance crew so many of the people you treat on a shift experience the worst days of their live. his company is to get thank you notes for his service. the kind man they called him. j.p. was 22 when he died of the coronavirus last week. he liked boating, flying, and cooking. his family says he was a kind spirit. that he made it his mission to help others. they will miss him. his friends will miss him and so will his rescue dog shatter. thank you for letting us into your homes during this extraordinary time. our coverage continues with chuck todd after a quick break. chuck todd after a quick break they may not be hydrated enough. wabba wabba!

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