on thursday the reverend al sharpton joined the family of george floyd to eulogize him two mimes from where he was killed by a minneapolis police officer. later this morning his family will gather in north carolina for another memorial service before he's laid to rest in houston, texas, on tuesday. many mourners are already lined up to pay their respects and while there have been significant developments in the case which we will get to in a moment, people seeking justice gathered for the 11th night of protests around the country. in washington, d.c. quite a powerful message including to the current occupant of the white house when she commissioned volunteers to paint the words black lives matter on one of the streets leading up to the white house and then turned the spotlights on it last night to make sure trump in her words would dream about it. she also renamed one of the

intersections near the white house black lives matter plaza. d.c. is now gearing up for one of the largest protests in the city yet today with tens of thousands of people expected. a new poll shows why these demonstrations are growing and don't appear to be winding down any time soon. 74% of americans view the death of george floyd as a sign of broader problems in the treatment of african americans by police. it's a big shift. in 2014 only 43% said the killings of michael brown and eric garner were emblem attic of a larger problem. and change is beginning. minneapolis officials voted to ban choke holds by police. and now that all four officers involved in the death of george floyd have been criminally charged we're getting a glimpse into their defense strategy. the attorneys for two of the officers say the men tried to express concern during floyd's deadly arrest and had to follow

the orders of the most senior officer. officer chauvin who kept his knee on george floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds. joining me now is keith ellison. what do you make of this change in strategy? you have now taken hold of this case. you now have two of the officers saying just blame the one guy, and you have the third -- the fourth officer essentially apparently cooperating. what about this change of plan -- change of defense? >> well, unfortunately i'm not allowed to say anything that might prejudice the jury. i have a duty and obligation to not do that. i will say in general, the minnesota statutes regarding aiding and abetting require you not to aid and if you do aid in the commission of a crime you may be held criminally liable. >> let's talk about the culture

on the police force, the minneapolis police force. the police force around the country can relate to this. you have officers standing there watching for eight minutes and 46 seconds as someone is killed. not getting into the specifics of this case but what in your view can and needs to be done? this new law in minneapolis would require police to render aid, require them to intervene. do you think that will be effective in getting police officers to change their behavior? >> well, i think the chief is committed to making sure that his policy requirements are met. i mean, the first thing he did is he made an employment decision about these four officers on the scene. that has nothing to do with this case. that's an employment matter that he decided that he -- these four did not meet the expectations of his department. he made that decision, not me long before i even got involved in this case. so he's determined to make sure

that the rules are followed. and i think that one of the problems across the country is that so many chiefs don't really have control of their department because you know, police federations, block reform and so you know, that -- the lack of reform has been impeded by our own federation. and so i think that that is something that we should continue to examine. hold the chief accountable by giving the chief the freedom to make sure that only people who meet the standards of that department can be part of it. >> that's a good point because i think one of the challenges is that number one, you do have police officers who will back up whatever the officer is doing in their midst and rarely speak up, rarely break this blue wall of silence and speak up which doesn't really exactly empower officers who do want to do the right thing. we saw in buffalo, new york, where one officer who after one officer, you know, knocked a 75-year-old man, one officer had the instinct to try to help but

was shoved along and told to keep walking. there is a culture issue. do you think there's a hiring issue, that there could be better screening of the people who could be police officers, do you think it's about not allowing officers to have use of force complaints, i think officer chauvin had 17 of them and still allowed to remain on the dpors. >> well, i mean, what's the rest of that story in buffalo? isn't it the case that 57 officers quit the unit they were part of after the chief tried to discipline the officers who mistreated that old -- that older gentleman? i mean, that's part -- that's the rest of the story. right? so we do have a problem. you know, let me tell you in general speaking we need to create an environment where officers who want to live up to their pledge and the badge and to live up to the training that they've received can do that

because what we have now is two standards. there's the written standard. there's department policy, but then there's how we do things. and how we do things is go along to get along, don't tell if you see misconduct. we've got to change that culture and that culture is contributing to the crisis we see unfolding all across our country right now and what people are reacting to. >> and i think one other question is the question of the police union. they have a lot of power. they have a lot of control over how they are managed by these states. they influence -- they have a lot of influence over poll situations. is that a challenge? democrats are pro union, but those unions tend to be relatively weak compared to the police unions. >> can you imagine the nurses union having contempt for the

patients? i mean, you know, i mean, look, police unions have got to figure out how to be on the side of public safety and is citizens they're sworn to protect. we've had problems with that in minneapolis with our police union. >> let me ask you about the minnesota public school decision to terminate their contracts with the police department over george floyd's death. you've had that decision, the university system say they're not going to use minneapolis police force, et cetera. is that the leverage that the public has at this point is funding, because the additional funding, the additional money that police officers can earn in those kind of systems, is that at this point besides legislation the leverage that the public has do you support that leverage being used? >> well, i think that we've got to bring forth reform and we've got to use the tools available to do that. i believe in the chief of the

minneapolis police department, but you know, the chief doesn't necessarily run everything on the ground. he needs people to obey the rules and his requirements and he i think is an excellent start and i think we do need other elements of society to insist on quality service and to not stand idly by and let it go on and say i'm not part of that. so i think that legislators, community members, faith community members, other institutions need to apply the pressure to update and reform policing in america. and again, we always say there's a lot of good police and i would be the first to agree. i know many police officers who are great but we need to put them in a position where the values that they live up to are the values of that department and not the lowest common denominator because people are too timid to come forward when they see misconduct by another

officer. >> can i ask you to take us inside before i lose you, why did you feel it was necessary for you to take this case over and step in. >> i'm in this case out of a sense of duty. i've never been in office because i'm seeking a higher office. i'm sure not in it for the money. i'm in it because my mother raised me and my four brothers to have a burning passion for justice and to step forward and do what we could to help community. that's what her father did, frank martinez, that's what she taught us and that's what we're doing now. >> keith ellison, attorney general of the case of minnesota. thank you very much. really appreciate your time this morning. and now let's bring in paul butler. legal analyst and former federal prosecutor. also the author of choke hold, policing black men. thank you so much for being here

this morning. good to see you. jesse jackson in an interview in vanity fair called floyd's killing a lynching. he said four men, one man, that's a lynching. that's strong language but i think those around the world who kwached him die essentially, 8 minute and 40 second neck choke hold, i think that is the visceral feeling. it's not understandable. your thoughts. >> this is a lynching in which the lynchers must be brought to justice. these are very difficult cases for prosecutors about 100 cops have been charged with murder. fewer than ten officers have been convicted of murder. the majority of police who are charged with murder walk. they're found not guilty or the charges are dismissed. the problem with this case is that people have said that a conviction would send an

important message. that's absolutely true, but this is just the beginning of a long process of bringing these officers to justice. the concern is that a not guilty verdict would also have an expressive value. it would mean the atrocity the whole world is seeing is not a crime. >> and we have a picture of the officers up and i want to ask you and let's put the charges up there. the additional officers are now charged with attempted second degree assault. they've been upgraded to aiding and abetting secondary murder and chauvin is charged with second degree murder and second degree mans. as y -- manslaughter. the increased diversity among police departments would increase outcomes for people of color but you have a quite

diverse group of men. your thoughts. >> we know that police officers look like the community they protect. so yes, diverse police officers are certainly important in the appearance of justice. in hip hop music there's a lot of critique of black officers, artists think they show out in order to show their loyalty, that there are more blue than they are black but these three other officers are charged with aiding and abetting. that means they helped the crime go down. mr. floyd's death was not only caused by compression to his neck but also compression to his back and legs so this implicates at least two other officers in his murder. >> and what do you make of the fact that two of the other officers are using the rookie defense saying they were just rookies, they'd only been on the force a short time and they had

to follow chauvin's orders and of course the fourth officer who everyone saw on camera standing and watching, just staring at the camera while this was all happening apparently cooperating. what do you make of that? >> police officers are taught that they cannot obey illegal orders, but one of the officers asked to take mr. floyd's pulse. mr. floyd didn't have a pulse. the officer reported that. it didn't matter. they continued to press his body into the ground while the life drained out of him for another two minutes and 53 seconds. >> let's talk about some of the police reforms that are being proposed in the city of minneapolis. the agreement that the city voted on would require any officer regardless of tenure or rank to immediately radio or phone from the scene the use of neck restraints or choke holds to their commander or their

commanding superior, similarly any officer who sees another officer commit any use of force must try to intervene verbally or physically. if they don't they'd be subject to discipline as if they had used that use of force themselves. >> most police departments don't use any kind of neck restraints because it's risky. it prevents blood and oxygen to get to the brain and lungs. this department needs to many reforms. the current chief is african american. when he was a line officer he sued the minneapolis department for discrimination. only 7% of minneapolis police officers live in minneapolis. the others live in the suburbs. we know that that makes for ineffective policing. when police officers are your neighbors, when they take care of their communities in a different sense.

now president obama's commission said the problem with police culture is officers think of themselves as warriors. they are not warriors. it's not us against them. the better model president obama said is guardians. police officers should view themselves as caretakers of the community and that will prevent results like the atrocity that happened to george floyd. >> and in some cases there are -- they're seen as warriors and they have actual tanks and military equipment. last question to you. the minneapolis council is talking about maybe experimenting with just less policing period and less police involvement in some of the disturbances that gone othe community. we had pushed for pilot programs and fire department emts to opioid police calls without police officers.

what do you make of this idea of just less police involvement in the community period? >> less policing is crucial, joy. we know that in many occasions when people dial 911, having someone with a gun and the power to arrest show up makes things worse, not better and so what a lot of communities are understanding is that when people dial 911 it's actually a medical crisis, a mental health crisis or a relationship crisis and they're more appropriate for first responders than the men and women in blue. >> yeah. absolutely. and important that it's unarmed community oriented street teams and not armed ones because we say that did not turn out so well in the trayvon martin case. always appreciate your wisdom. thank you. >> coming up we will continue

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>> get a medic. wow, that was one of the most disturbing pieces of video that we've seen this week. the two police officers who shoved a 75-year-old man to the ground are expected to be charged today. all of the officers part of that

response department have resigned from that unit over the disciplinary measures taken out by the two police officers. particularly in new york city, it's striking that police feel free to abuse their power when they must know that cameras are rolling. and that the response too often by officers to scrutiny over their actions is defensive rather than reflective. and joining me now is sheriff of philadelphia. she's the first woman and first african american elected to lead philly's sheriff department. cofounder and ceo for the center policing equity. and cohost of break dance with wolves pod cast on indigenous pirate radio. let me go to you first, sheriff and welcome to the show. so we do know that just based on the statistics and this was a

piece that was actually coauthored by one of your coguests shows that black americans are subjected to police abuse of force. we know that's the basis we're dealing with, but the reaction that police officers have to the reaction of black people and of people now in general, it's now 74% of americans, to that reality, the police department's reactions generally seem to be defensive. you had all of those officers resign in that police force because two of them were disciplined for shoving an elderly man to the ground and making his head bleed. you have the minneapolis police chief who has called the protests over the 8 minute and 46 second compression of the neck of an innocent man, the reaction to that, the minnesota police chief has called those protests terrorist movement and called the police officers heroic. what is happening inside of the police departments in america?

>> that's the great -- first of all, thank you for having me. that's the great divide. it has been in our culture and its institution for such a long time. as far as those officers resigning out of protest, i would say that bye felicia because they should go. because if they didn't see anything wrong with that then they shouldn't have been on the force from the beginning. we are not run by a gestapo type of community. this has been going on for decades. so at this point now we should be fighting for those who want to be on this job to treat people fairly and for those who don't, say bye. get them out of here, those of us who want to do this job right want them gone anyway. >> do you find that police officers, you know, particularly black police officers and brown police officers who see this happening, what is it about -- why don't they say anything in

the moment so often? i mean, that group of officers in minneapolis was racially diverse. there was -- it was a very racially diverse group. way were not four white officers. why don't police say anything when they see something like that happening? >> i spent 27 years on the philadelphia police department. it takes courage to stand up. it takes courage to stand up and stop the nonsense. you got to know who you are as a person. this job that you got, if they somehow get to you, you can do something else other than do the job. so it takes colonel to stand up. a lot of cops, some people this may be the most money they ever made in they life and therefore they'd rather say i didn't see nothing, i don't want no trouble. well, then trouble should be on you because you are african american. let me take that back. if you want to be a law asiding citizen, if you want to be a police officer sworn to protect, then your job is to call out,

stand up against those who take this institution for granted and do wrong to the community in our neighborhoods or in our community at large. i'm saying this. i'm black first. i wore a blue uniform. i wear black -- some people wear black uniforms. i'm black first, i'm a human beings and when law enforcement treat people in that manner they should be gone and i'm saying this to all of them. none of that is right but we've been crying out about this for such a long time, look, this is not new, what's been going on. we now got videos and they say don't believe your lying eyes to some of the videos and so now we got a nationwide protest. protests is in our dna. we had to protest to get here where we are today. we need to keep protesting until we have equality and fair

treatment under the law like our constitution says it's supposed to be. so let them boys, bye felicia, let them go. >> and we did see the great video in miami of a black police officer who kind of bodied another police officer who was shoving and being cruel to a protester. it was like nope, move out of here. so people can do it when they want to do it. we know now that there is not just one i can't breathe situation. obvious think there was eric garner, now there is george floyd. there's another case in washington, another man who told officers i can't breathe. his name was manual ellis. he died march 3rd after being handcuffed and restrained by police officers. we have two nypd officers suspended on friday after videos showed them being violent toward protesters. a woman was shoved to the ground in brooklyn in one of the videos. in another one a protester had a

face mask pulled down and was sprayed under their mask. deliberately spraying under their masks it's now directed at protesters and yochb, what do you do with that information, phillip? >> we have seen in the last two weeks the worst that law enforcement has to offer. and we've seen it in broad daylight on camera when people knew they were going to be on camera. so what do you do with that? i'm not going to go against a sheriff who's saying bye felicia. i'm very clear life and liberty, if you're not up to the task and regulating your emotions even in the midst of being called all kinds of names. i have seen police officers have feces thrown on them and they hardly blinked. it is possible. as we talk about the bad

officers and the terrible images that i'm looking at, that we're showing this audience, i would be remiss if i said problem here is even as simple as fixing policing. what we're seeing on the streets right now, what the officers are having to respond to is not just an incredibly justified outrage by black, white, asian folks about police brutality. what we're also seeing is bigger than that. it's the past due bill for the debts owed to black americans since we were stolen and brought here. i'm not trying to be hyper bollic. i'm trying to explain. this is bigger than police brutality. it's bigger than the need for police reform and if in this moment the best we can do is reform just policing we must appoint. i was talking to an activist last week asking whether or not

he was going to go back on the streets to protest and he said to me like, i have this pain. because the pain is too big to fit in my body. i just said that's because it's too big to fit in a lifetime. this is generational pain and so we can't just be thinking about well, if we fire the bad officers, we can't be thinking about if we ban the choke hold. those things have to happen but it's got to be bigger than that because policing is only ever just a spark, but the tinder is all of the resources that keep getting taken out of black communities until policing is the only public good that we fund that goes into them. >> you know, and i think about police involves the hiring of human beings and giving them a gun and a badge. you're going to pull from all parts of society. you have the heroic people, my friend who is a police officer for most of his adult life and

ended up being the new police chief in ferguson after all that went on with the michael brown protests and really is the save the community. you've got all walks of society. so that's the situation, but also there is a sense that having lots and lots of interaction with police does one poorly especially if you're black. there's a case of a black man shot by new jersey state police. he had interactions with law enforcement earlier that same day. govern nor phil murphy and they've declined to say whether a 28-year-old black man killed by police shooting had been stopped by authorities multihl times in the hours ahead of his death. you have these situations where people -- you know, where police are interacting back with somebody they've already developed an attitude with. right? and the case with a lot of

protesters, people who are having lots of interaction with police and your thoughts? >> this is the right question. not only how are we minimizing the amount of interaction we're having with police but we have to be looking at all the institutions that govern us. remember, that police are an institution and they are there to enforce the laws that the state creates. all of this is one system and that is the system that people are finding so deeply troubling and finding frankly deadly. i was reminded this morning from a twitter interaction to go back and look at the preamble to the declaration of independence and what does it say? to see cure these rights governments are ins tutituted ag men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. we are not seeing just powers. we're seeing illegitimate

powers. we're seeing deadly powers, disrespectful powers but we're not seeing just powers and the cry from the street is not protect good cops of fire bad cops, the cry is defund the police. the people are removing their consent just like our founding documents admonish us to. we have to recognize that people are saying to move the money from the institution of policing that over and over throughout generations has kobcontinued itf dangerous to black americans. jobs programs, housing programs, education programs, building strong communities from the ground up instead of allowing communities to be overpoliced from the top down. >> and you know, well said and i'm glad that we were able to get you on today because the first two groups of people to be subjected to you know, vicious

policing by the europeans who arrived in this country were of course indigenous people and the african enslaved people that they brought with them on slave ships 400 years ago. so it was interesting to me and i don't know if you caught this yesterday. the alaska senator sort of saying that her black fellow senators had taught her. she finally understood about the pain that, you know, police involved violence involves and i think to myself, you're in alaska where there's a huge indigenous population that is overpoliced as well. police killings against indigenous people are off the charts according to a headline i have in front of me. shows native americans who are 0.8% of the u.s. population comprise police killings. so the surprise is weird for me. your thoughts?

>> yeah, first of all, good morning to everybody on the panel and thank you for bringing attention both to this topic and the topic understatend and underreported topic of police involved killings of native people. i want to be clear, joy, that it's george floyd rip, breonna taylor and the momentum behind their murders at the hands of police and that the agency and the self-determination of black people to bring this movement that this is in the forefront of main stream culture. i don't want to divert attention to that but since you asked, yeah, native people are catching hell from police enforcement and the hallmark of racism against native people in the united states is that nobody knows about it it's the tony terry song. nobody knows it but me.

and that's the hallmark of violence and racism against people all over the place is that you know, we suffer violent crimes at the highest rates in the country. nobody knows it. we die at the hands of law enforcement and nobody knows it. we get suspended from schools at the highest rate which later on leads to having contact with the criminal justice system which people now days are calling the school to prison pipeline and nobody knows it. and so it's absolutely, there's a common narrative there amongst native and black people. it's different because the circumstances within our communities are different. and everybody is catching hell. that's the point. it's not a comparison. obviously it it's not a competition. there are so many native people standing in solidarity with black folks like -- i have a

niece on the indian reservation where i'm from where there's like two black people. i'm barely exaggerating and they're having a black lives matter movement there. they're standing up and they're saying no, we need to protect this very, very small segment of the population and you have that in the three afifiliated tribes. i'm so proud of native people who are understanding. yes, we're catching hell but we have some folks that are likewise catching hell and we need to focus our attention and our love and our grace and our healing on them right now and we need to not make the topic about us but instead just embrace them and lovz this movement. >> well, and you know, i think that's important to say and phillip, you know, it is -- it is becoming multiracial movement. the demand is not black folks alone. but give us some solutions. what actually would work to change this culture of aggressive and sometimes violent

policing even toward peaceful protesters? >> so first let me just thank you for standing up and being the coconspirator in this. i'm talking about doing this together. just really appreciate the way you're centering what's happening right now without things that have been happening to your culture. we'd be more like a me tholg of america that we claim to be if we stood up for our native brothers and sisters in a way they're standing up for us. you asked though, the crucial question, joy, which is how do we change culture? i think the first thing is we have to own that it's culture that we have to change. so when this was happening six years ago everybody was coming to us a and saying let's get trangs together. trainings are weak, weak lever for behavioral change. policies are better.

policies get eaten for breakfast every day by culture. and the ways that you change culture, you know, 80% of culture is who you hire and who you fire. it's what you reward and how you frame it. so part of what we need to do is we need to give chiefs and leaders the ability to direct their folks more in line with values. that includes analytics but it includes better levers for getting rid of the bad folks and measuring the stuff that matters. we need to give communities back the authority over their departments. >> yep. absolutely. i wish we had more time. bye felicia having been a memorable line from today's broadcast. coming up in our next hour a live report ahead of george floyd's memorial in north carolina. more a.m. joy after the break. n

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>> if you go and talk to your african american friends they will tell teenagers and young adults, if the cops stop you, keep your hand on the wheel, don't reach for the golf compartment, say yes, sir and no sir. so i've come to believe that young black men rightly or

wrongly perceive the police to be a threat when many times they're not and we've got to deal with that problem and if we don't be hon ers with the problem we're never going to make progress. >> okay, well, that's how one south carolina lawmaker reacted to the protests over the death of george floyd. now let's hear from another one from the other side of the aisle. joining me now is jim clyburn. >> your thoughts on lindsey graham's thoughts. >> first of all, thanks for having me, joy. >> of course. >> he is from south carolina. he is from seneca, south carolina. i know the history of seneca, south carolina. where has he been? you know, i've been really

interested we had some foolishness the other day. drew brees has gotten himself in some difficulty with his teammates how his grandfather and father thought about anybody kneeling would be disrespecting the flag as if these, his teammates did not have parents and grandparents who fought for this country and came back to this country with all kinds of indignities. one of which has been written about in the great book from south carolina. isaac was in his uniform coming home from the war when he was stopped by a sheriff in law enforcement officer who beat him, punched his eyes out with a night stick. that's the thing that led harry truman to sign the executive order to integrate the armed services because of the

indignities charged to a black man by a law enforcement officer and that black man was in his uniform coming home from a war we had just won. what in the world is lindsay talking about? he needs to get in touch with his state. he's demonstrated time and time again he is out of touch with south carolina. he needs to get in touch with history. get in touch with where this country is and do his part to help rectify that. help repair it if you please. continue to misrepresent facts and try to revise history. that to me is more than an insult. >> i feel like i have to play the -- this is who is opposing se lindsay graham or is at least vying him. this is jamie harrison's latest political ad versus lindsey

graham. >> a deadly virus is deep. i'm jamie harrison. people are wanting to be seen, to be heard, to be understood. it's moments like these who define who we are as americans. we must use this moment to come together to create real meaningful change. to some those may just be words. >> you know, and obviously south carolina has one black senator, tim scott. he was appointed to the position. do you think that your state is ready for a second? >> i think the state is ready for harrison. i don't believe that skin color will define how one connect to south carolina borders. harrison's life experiences, his outlook on life, his recognition of what's fact and his respect

for the pledge of allegiance to the flag with liberty and justice for all, that's what will connect jamie harrison to south carolina voters and that's why i think he will succeed in november. >> let's let you -- let's comment. i mentioned tim scott so let's let you listen to him. he was on fox news this week and this is a period where everybody i know, black and white but especially black folks i know are just so burdened with pain and anger and outrage over these repeated killings of black people not only by police but in a case of ahmaud arbery and the people that had the right to hunt him down and do whatever they do to black bodies but this is tim scott talking about the trump era and black americans. let you listen to that. >> i will say without any question the last three years of progress have been unprecedented in my lifetime.

the fact that we have secured permanent funding for hbcus under president trump is something that was surprising. think about the jobs created under this administration. we created over 7 million jobs. two thirds of those to minorities and to women. >> i don't know how well you know senator scott but at last check, this is before the correction when it was 13% unemployment overall, it was 16% african american unemployment right now so i assume it's much higher than that. what do you think is driving that attitude that he seems to be, you know, solidly stitching himself to the president despite the fact that the vast majority of americans have no interest in this president? >> for some strange reason, every republican united states senator seems to feel that trump is bigger than this country. that trump is more important

than the foundations upon which this country was built. constitutional principles, even when we didn't live up to them, those principles were there. we've always been in pursuit of what we thought a perfect urine ju union. to misrepresent facts like that, that is absolutely not true. aside from the fact that we now know that they made a $4.5 million error in determining what the employment is to do and what the job creation is all about, i don't know why they keep mimicking this president who will not tell the truth about anything. i've done more for blacks than any president since abraham lincoln. give me a break. i would like for this president and any of his senators to show me what he has done that would

equate to lyndon johnson's civil rights act of 1964, voting rights act of 1965, elementary secondary education act of 1965, the higher education act of 1965, medicare, medicaid. they're dedicated to taking all that stuff away, privatizing medicare, getting rid of the affordable care act. he equates his lawsuit to take away health care from millions of people, a lot of them black, and he says that's the kind of stuff that makes him a better president since abraham lincoln. these guys ought to be ashamed of themselves. we can see this, we can hear this. people know better. i don't understand how they think we can continue to build a great country on falsehoods. those things are absolutely not true, and i don't know why they would denigrate themselves

mimicking that kind of stuff. >> i understand. i'm losing leader james clyburn. thank you very much for your time this morning. really appreciate your being here. thank you very much james clyburn, congressman james clyburn. more "am joy" after the break.

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. the protests against the killing of george floyd began 11 days ago in minneapolis and show no signs of slowing down. as they spread across the country and now the world, people have packed the streets in cities around the globe, standing in solidarity and grief with american protesters. like london earlier this morning, thousands gathered to stand against the racism and police brutality that has taken too many black lives. we'll have more "am joy" after the break. more "am joy" after the break. the first and only full prescription strength non-steroidal anti-inflammatory gel available over-the-counter. new voltaren is powerful arthritis pain relief in a gel.

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so abbott is getting new tests into their hands, delivering the critical results they need. and until this fight is over, we...will...never...quit. because they never quit. at the end of the day my brother is gone, but the floyd name still lives on. well come back to "am joy." it was george floyd's death that marked a reckoning for america over police brutality and systemic racism.

today marks a celebration of his life. a public viewing is starting now in ray ford, north carolina, near where mr. floyd was born with a private service to follow. this is the second of three memorials, the first occurring in minneapolis where floyd was remembered as a loving father, brother and uncle and where reverend al sharpton urged mourners to stand up in george's name and say to america, get your knee off our necks. joining me from rayford, north carolina, is priscilla thompson of nbc news. priscilla. >> reporter: the viewing got under way earlier than expected. folks are now being allowed in to view the body. they're passing out masks to try to promote safety as we're in the middle of a pandemic. these lines around the parking lot to the street, as you can see, still a great deal of people lined up here. typically at a funeral, viewing or memorial, you might see

people in black dresses. you have people who have come out with photos of george floyd on their shirt, shirts that say #georgefloyd. i've talked to half a dozen people who have come from all over the place to be here today. one thing that struck me as we just walked by here is the casket is actually open. it was originally billed to be a closed cassette. one woman told me it was reminiscent of emmett till. his mother decided to have his casket open so people would not forget what happened to him. i actually have sarah here who drove about three hours to be here today to pay tribute and be here for this moment. tell me a little bit about why you decided to travel to be here today. >> i came because i believe black lives matter, and i believe i can be here and make a difference and being one among many is worth it. being one among many shows we're strong. >> reporter: i know you just walked out having viewed the body. i'm curious what was going through your mind when you stood e before his casket?

>> it was really emotional. like you just said, i didn't realize it was going to be an open casket. i'm glad it is because i think it really brings the face to george floyd and to all of the other victims out there. yesterday was breonna taylor's 27th birthday. this is a real problem. seeing his face really, really hit me because he's a person, he deserved to live, black lives matter. >> reporter: if you had one message for folks watching today who aren't able to be at services like this, what's your message? >> do what you can. sign petitions. watch the youtube videos where the ad rev my is only going to the black lives matter movement. call your senators, call your local representatives, register to vote. make sure you get out there and vote. that's what's going to make real change. >> reporter: thank you. joy, that's something we've heard from a couple of folks out here today, the importance of voting and also the idea that george floyd's death not be in

vain. george floyd was born here, but he didn't grow up here. so a number of folks out here today don't necessarily know him personally, but they felt as a community it was important to come out here and show strength in numbers and show that they cared about his life. officials tell us they're expecting up to 3,000 people to be here for the viewing, and then we know a private memorial is going to be taking place for george floyd's family who is here. he has a sister bridget floyd that lives in the area, along with an uncle and stepmom. this is the second memorial. he was first memorialized in minnesota. this is the second mem ol. his body will journey on to houston where he will be laid to rest on tuesday, joy. >> priscilla, i don't know if sarah is still standing there. it's fascinating to listen to and look at that crowd behind you. it's a very racially diverse crowd. is that the way it's been most of the day, very racially diverse, age diverse as well,

something like the protests have been. >> reporter: yes, very racially and age defensive r diverse. i spoke to an 84-year-old man who came in from vermont. it was important for him to be here as a white man and to show solidarity and show this is something that impacts everyone across the country regardless of race, creed, religion. it was parent for him to be part of the show of solidarity and pay his tribute to george floyd. >> priscilla thompson, great reporting. appreciate you. thank you very much. meanwhile donald trump who went awol and briefly hid in a white house bunker after protests erupted nationwide to threaten a nation in crisis with military force, and then he walked across the street to st. john's church after law enforcement officers deployed teargas and shot rubber bullets to disperse people protesters,

all for this, this one photo opinion, op, so he could hold up a bible, upside down. it was met with widespread condemnation by church and civil rights leader. now the generals have also jumped ship. in a statement published by "the atlantic" general james mattis forcibly denounced trump comparing his protest response to nazi tactics, a reaction so unprecedented, the anti-trump group, the lincoln project, used it for its latest ad. >> militarizing the response as we witnessed in washington, d.c. sets up a conflict, a false conflict between the military and civilian society. it's roads the moral ground and ensures the trusted bond of men and women in uniform and the society they're sworn to protect. who do you trust? the coward or the commander?

>> wow, calling him a coward. joining me now is the great lawrence o'donnell, the host of "the last word" and the author of two incredibly relevant books, "deadly force, a police shooting and my family's search for the truth "and "playing with fire," the transformation of american politics. i will note that i'm currently rereading "deadly force." i read it before and am reading it again. you're just the man to talk to at this moment, lawrence. i appreciate you coming on. the generals coming for trump, a number of them, speaking out against what he did. general john allen, even general kelly who was his chief of staff and who i think in a lot of ways did not bring credit to himself the way he behaved toward a black member of congress in defense of trump, but now is speaking out against him. what do you make of that? >> well, let's start with the general kelly side of it. this is something i've been expecting basically from the end

of the first week of the trump administration, and that is that former white house officials, former trump officials will at some definitive point on the calendar in their lives publicly turn against donald trump. their public claim, especially when they're out of that job, will be thank god i was there every day because i was preventing him from doing many, many, many worse things. i think that's going to be john kelly's claim for the rest of his life. i'll leave it to people to make their own decisions about how much of that they want to believe or credit to him. as you say, we're still awaiting john kelly's apology to congresswoman fredrica wilson where he lied about her, told racist lies about her, deliberately racist lies about her from the racist trump white house. so watching this kind of extrication game that john kelly is trying to play now is a different thing than what we're watching with james mattis.

james mattis took almost, kind of, a public, quasi religious vow to never say anything about the president he served as defense secretary. he made this claim when his book came out that it was the only honorable way for him to proceed. so it took a lot, it took everything we've seen in the last 3 1/2 years for general mattis to come out. and when he did come out, he didn't limit himself to just the last seven days of events. he didn't limit himself to the disgrace that donald trump brought upon the chairman of the joint chiefs, the defense secretary, when they walked out and commandeered a church where they were not welcome for a photo op. general mattis, it's important to point out in what he wrote, kept referring to 3 1/2 years of no mature leadership.

general mattis is saying it's every day. it's every single day of the trump presidency. we've always wondered, can anyone, can anyone shake the trump base by turning against trump. and i would say probably no one can, but if anyone can, it would be a james mattis, it would be the kind of generals who are coming out this week with tremendous emphasis, admiral mullen, former chair of the joint chiefs. they're just piling up. but remember, remember, these trump voters had absolutely no problem, no problem with donald trump saying very early in the campaign that he doesn't like people -- doesn't like soldiers who gets captured like john mccain. the logic of that is, if you don't like soldiers who get captured, you must really hate soldiers who get killed because that in the trump world would be

an even bigger failure than getting captured. every single trump voter on election day said, you know what? that's perfectly okay with me, i like the rest of the package. >> and unfortunately i think the same thing goes for the misuse of the bible and a church among his evangelical voters. i am fascinated by this attempt by some senators, the senator from alaska who tried to sort of wriggle away a bit from donald trump and some of these generals. you had general millie who he shouted at the president and said i'm not doing that in deploying the military. it seems quite rehabilitative. but he did stand there in front of the church. he did participate in it. i want to show you some senators who didn't even do that kind of a dodge. they did actually a physical dodge when they were asked about general mattis. you played it on "the hard

word." >> senator mcconnell, was what the president did last night the right thing to do? >> senator, nice to see you. was what the president did last night right? >> senator, is what the president did yesterday at st. john's, was that appropriate? was it an abuse of power? >> senator inslee, are you concerned at all about what happened at the white house last night? >> sorry. i'm late for lunch. >> senator blackburn, do you have any concerns about what unfolded at the white house last night? >> sorry. there's so much dodging, so much tape. that was actually senators dodging the question of donald trump using force and teargas to clear the space so he could take a walk across the street. this is now senators dodging about mattis' condemnation of that. here it is. >> can i ask you a couple questions. do you agree with mattis that the president -- >> i had not heard that remark. i'd have to take a look and see

what the context. >> can you comment as a member of a critical committee -- >> i actually haven't read it yet. >> i haven't seen that. >> i've got a phone call i've got to get to. >> leader mcconnell, can i ask you about your tweet about esper, how come you sent that? are you worried that the president is going to fire esper? >> last one, do you have a comment about general mattis and the essay he wrote about trump? >> lawrence, i feel like that would have actually been better with the benny hill theme under it, the way they're fleeing. they can't escape him, can they? do they want to? >> joy, when i worked in the senate, mitch mcconnell did not wear a mask. i think you're going to see mitch mcconnell never take that mask off. it's the greatest tool he's ever had for walking away from

reporters. remember when republicanism and trumpism and don't wear a mask, those republican senators love those masks. that's what they need to run past kasie hunt and everyone else asking them the obvious question of the day. >> let's talk about this. you did write a book about 1968. that election, other than that one, was the most hyper kinetic, racially infused election that weave seen in this country. "the new yorker" has a piece out that talks about that election that you wrote a whole book about. political activism on the rise in some cities. aggressive police tactics exacerbated the tactics. republican presidential canned dap dat richard nixon exploited the turmoil to ap peep to frightened white voters. this time the person playing the role in attacking the chaos and using the point about the chaos is actually joe biden. let me let you look at a new joe

biden ad. >> i won't traffic in fear and division. i won't fan the flames of hate. i'll seek to heal the racial wounds that have long plagued our country, not use them for political gain. i'll do my job and i will take responsibility. i won't blame others. i promise you, this job is not about me, it's about you. >> donald trump keeps using 1960s racist police phraseology and bull connor sort of talk. do you think he understands he's hubert humphrey and not richard nixon in this scenario? i think he thinks he's running as richard nixon? >> i don't think trump even understands the words, the way he tweets them, he can't even put them in a sentence. it's clearly just -- he's on the phone with roger stone and roger stone is telling him all the

nixon phrases. the huge difference between richard nixon who really created that phrase law and order as a republican campaign point and donald trump is that richard nixon was an extremely calculating man when it came to his choice of words. when you look at -- he had a long public career, as a senator, as vice president, as president. there are very few -- the collection of the times nixon said something he shouldn't have is a very, very, very slim pamphlet. he was extremely calculating. and i don't think there was a moment -- there wasn't a day in 1968 during that presidential campaign where nixon said one word that wasn't surgically precise and intentional. i say surgically because what he wanted to do was cut into pre-existing wounds in american society and exploit them and he

did. richard nixon won by less than 1% of the vote. there was no kind of mandate for what he was selling at that time in 1968. so this time it's a very different world and the changes are just stunning between 1968 and now. the changes in consciousness, the changes in white awareness of the dimensions of the problems that we're dealing with this week in america, that's all relatively new. you showed polls, joy, at the beginning of your show that the consciousness out there right now is literally less than a couple years old. you showed polls from 2014 showing just how biased in favor of police officers americans were. that, by the way, held for pretty much the entire history of polling up until now. and now you finally have white

americans and americans of all kinds and very different levels of experience with law enforcement finally understanding just how questionable law enforcement practices are. and just to get it to the questionable level took the entire 20th century and more. >> absolutely, and also took a lot of white protesters feeling the brunt of police brutality themselves just because they were out there protesting the murder of an innocent man. lawrence o'donnell, thank you so much. it's always so much fun to turn the tables on you and talk with you. thank you very much. those two books you should definitely read. both of those two books really, really good. "deadly force" and "playing with fire." i'm going to do the book promo for you. you didn't ask for it. thank you, sir. up next, more on donald trump's autocrat moves from experts who sounded the alarm way before now right here on this show.

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♪ the extravagance of the bastille day parade in france left donald trump mesmerized back in 2017, so much so he unsuccessfully tried to replicate it with a pale imitation of that parade last 4th of july. now in a twisted response to the massive protests happening right outside the white house lawn, trump has finally gotten his own parade of sorts. several masked unjune -- masked uniformed members, i should say, of the national guard and police

line the streets in washington, d.c. this week. as we've mentioned, even forcibly carried away protesters -- cleared away protesters using teargas and rubber bullets so donald trump could walk across the street from the white house and stage a photo op in front of a church with an upside down bible. the whole scene gave donald trump what he always wanted, a flashy display of autocrat style military might. joining me is malcolm nance and sarah kins your. i want to play one or bit of trump memorabilia. here is donald trump praising china's response to the tiananmen square protest. take a listen. it's to both of you. i'll read it. when the students poured into tiananmen square the chinese government almost blew it. then they were vicious, they

were horrible, put it down with strength. our country right now is perceived as weak, being split by the rest of the world. he's not the only person that has this attitude. tom cotton, senator from arkansas said send in the military through a column in "the new york times" saying send in the military. take a look at the reaction we've seen in d.c. here are protesters being hit with projectiles, hit with teargas. donald trump considers this to be strength. that's what he always wanted. malcolm nance, as we look at that video, your thoughts. >> well, i'm disgusted. i served my entire career in the armed forces. my family has served every year since 17864 in the armed forces. he clearly does not know or care that the armed forces of the united states do not serve the preside president. they serve the constitution of the united states and the people of the united states. in fact, we swear an oath to the constitution of the united

states and that he would think, his first consideration would be to use the army of the people of the united states against its own citizens tells you two things. one, the man is a coward. i say that clearly. i say it out loud. donald trump is a physical coward who dodged the draft multiple times. but then when he gets into a position of power, he wants to use those same people in the jobs he refused to go to, to go out and attack and possibly kill u.s. citizens. that is a tyrant by our own definition from our founding father. john adams and thomas jefferson. this man is no better thanking george iii. you might want to call him king donald i. but in this circumstance, he does not understand even the nation that he is supposedly in

charge of. the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, his own commanders, the secretary of the army and many, many generals and other personnel have come forward to say they're not playing this game. there has been a revolution of the generals. he no longer has control of these forces. that's why he went over to bill barr and brought in his own secret police. >> let's talk about that. i'm going to come back to you in a minute, malcolm. some of them played the game a little bit. they played along with some of the photo ops. i think that drew the reaction of people like general mattis. i want to talk about what you just mentioned with sarah. this unidentify police force. rachel maddow did great work and reporting. her show reported that some of them were federal prison -- they came from the federal prison system out of texas because they were wearing t-shirts that showed it. william barr talked about these unidentified -- uniformed but unidentified people that are

policing, like a secret police force. here he is talking about that. >> in the federal system, we don't wear -- the agents don't wear badges and their names and stuff like that which many civilian police agencies, non-federal police agencies do. i can understand why some of these individuals simply wouldn't want to talk to people about who they are if that was, in fact, the case. >> i don't know if there's anyone more sinister in the administration than william barr, first of all. you had senator chris murphy and others call this division controlled by bill barr a secret police force. is that what we've come to in america? >> yes, essentially. when you have no identification, you have no accountability. kdability is what they've been trying to avoid and trying to destroy the entire time. what malcolm said before about trump viewing the military as

his own personal military, that, of course, extends to his view of bar as his personal attorney. that extends to their general philosophy for the united states which is not to govern. it's to rule. it's to see americans who show any form of dissent, any form of independent thought as rivals, as enemies. it's to deem the press itself as enemies of the state which he did long ago. this is a very korconsistent pattern for this administration. a lot of people were in denial. they kept thinking that's not what authoritarianism looks like. it means soldiers on the streets, firing and fighting against their own citizens. guess what? we're now at that point because people remained in denial for so long. do not let anybody tell you that nobody saw this coming. that is another dodge for accountability. because if no one saw this coming, then no one could have prevented it. it could have been prevented.

it could have slowed. there's steps that congress and others could take, for one, impeaching bill barks dismantling the system, exposing state crimes that should have been exposed long ago. the truth will get you far in this scenario, as dire as things are right now. >> malcolm, the picture of those uniformed whatever they are standing there. i think they're soldiers. it's not clear who they are. ses tumd on the lincoln memorial is one of the creepiest images in the last four years. there's always been a dislike of dissent, particularly on the right. i remember in the george w. bush era people being investigated for having circles to oppose the iraq war. there was a loyalty oath required to sign to go into a bush rally. we had the patriot act, people steaming open our mail. we were on our way. we had a secret prison camp in cuba. we've been moving in that direction.

donald trump has just taken it a step further i think. my question to you is why are so many people in the military going along with it? yes, some have spoken out. general mattis has spoken out. you had millie put a thing out there, where he fought with trump about putting the army on the street. they're doing it, going along with it. why? >> you have to understand there are two types of orders that are given in the armed forces in the united states, lawful orders and unlawful orders. a lawful order of a troop deployment out of ft. belvoir or from a nearby bass with the national guard or even a military police unit that says go stand in front of the lincoln memorial and prevent damage to it, that's a lawful order. it's a horrible optic politically. i feel embarrassed for those soldiers who are now all tagged with this that they, themselves, look like they're part of a military police force that hasn't been seen since the vietnam war which is why the armed forces has technically

pulled out of donald trump's game. they do not want to be part of this because someone has explained to donald trump that anything further than what he's done already, including using that helicopter, a red cross marked helicopter from the national guard to rotor wash and try to blow away protesters which is one of the most dangerous things i've ever seen. military helicopters crash all the time. these things are unlawful. the armed forces will not obey and have an obligation to disobey unlawful orders. i think it's been made clear to him that they're just not going to do it. >> i'm going to have to interrupt you, this great panel. the governor of new york, andrew cuomo, has taken his seat. we're going to listen in to see what he has to say about the protests as well as the actions of police. take a listen. >> -- if they get the covid virus, they attribute it to the

covid virus. there's a number -- when it gets down this low, it's really a question of what that hospital certifies as a cause of death. so we'd like to see nobody die in the state of new york ever. but this is really, really good news. compared to where we were, this is a big sigh of relief. we talked about calibrating the control of the reopening based on the metrics that we have seen. we said this from day one. we then did this graphic that people mocked me for. but people mock me for a lot of things and it doesn't bother me because i like it. the reopening of the economy is a valve. you can open it faster, you can open it slower.

we've seen it open very fast. we've seen it opened all at once. we've seen states get into trouble. we've seen countries get into trouble and then they had to close the valve. we said we were going to close -- open the valve incrementbly and then watch the metrics. sounds boring. yeah, a little boring. it's actually very smart. what were the metrics. we're going to start the open the valve. watch the diagnostic testing rate, watch the tracing rate, watch the antibody testing rate, what the hospitalization rate, what the infection rate which is the seminal factor, rate of transmission. how quickly is the virus spreading. the rt, rate of transmission. if it goes over one, red lights, alarms, beeping. you have a real problem. if one person is infecting more

than one additional person, and you watch the gauges. and if the gauges are staying down low, then you can open the valve more. why do the valves stay down low? because people are smart. when you reopen, they don't just come out and act like they did. they understand it's a new normal and they act intelligently. our metrics are all today very good. we're going to open the valve more than we originally anticipated because the metrics are so good. if the metrics change, that would change. right now that's where we are. the -- we're going to open -- accelerate the opening of temples, mosques, churches. in phase two they can open to 25% occupancy of that building.

i was speaking to a minister about this, he said 25% occupancy, that's good news, because it's better than zero. he says 25% occupancy, then i have to have four services to get everyone in. and then he said, well, you know, i have to give the same sermon four times. he said hopefully by the fourth time i get it right. yes, 25% occupancy is not as easy as 100% occupancy, but 100% occupancy is a mass gathering and you can't do social distancing, et cetera. phase two, 25% occupancy. that begins immediately. be smart, be smart. it doesn't mean you go to a temple or a mosque and you sit right next to a person. you have to socially distance. watch on the entranceway and exitway when people tend to contin congregate going through the entrance and the exit. we leave it to our partners to

come up with a smart strategy on how to do it. this is an acceleration for us because we're doing so well on the metrics. but people still have to stay smart. with this virus, you learn something new every week. and sometimes what you learn is different than what they told you in the first place. who is the they? the they in this case are the global health experts. but the information has changed and some of the information i imparted when i received it turned out that it's different. now, the state of information is the virus can live in the air for three hours which is actually frightening when you think about it. it means, if i'm infected and i'm speaking and which have air molecules that i'm dispersing, they could linger for three hours. you walk in three hours later, you actually breathe those air molecules. that is a frightening fact. they now say surfaces are less

important. it's not that they're not important. you can still get the virus from a surface, but the virus does not live as easily or as long on surfaces as they originally thought. originally children were not affected. now we're studying the inflammatory syndrome affecting children all across the globe. not a significant number of children yet, but it's an area that's just being developed. they originally say, if you were infected, you couldn't be reinfected. that was theoretically a way for the workforce to go back to work. people who were infected were going to go back to work because they couldn't get reinfected. that's wrong. infected people may be able to get infected. a new piece of information that reenforces what we've been saying. the world health organization now says that masks are more important than they had originally recommended.

they had originally recommended they were important for health care workers. they are now saying that they're helpful for the general population. on masks, if you remember, when masks first started, the cdc or the federal agencies were saying, yeah, they couldn't hurt, but maybe they weren't great. that's come a long way. the masks are, the more people have learned, the more important the masks are. a way to make sure people can guess masks, we're going to sign an executive order saying that we will prosecute price gouging on ppe. to give you an idea of where we were. the n95 masks which we needed during the middle of the pandemic for the health care professionals. before the pandemic we were paying 70 cents for a mask. in the middle of the pandemic, $7.00 per mask for the same

mask. so whatever we can do on a statewide basis is statewide price gouging. it doesn't mean china can't gouge us or another country. but we won't have price gouging in the state of new york. we had continued protests last night all across the state. the protests were mainly peaceful. i think barbara jordan, god rest her soul, who was a great representative in this country said it right, what the people want is very simple, they want america as good as its promise. that's what the protesters are saying. they're saying enough is enough. mr. floyd's death, eric garner's death, abner's death, am due diallo, rodney king's death, when does it end? i think they're right. this is a national moment for change. and new york is going to lead

the way on this change. we have always done it and will continue to do it. when it comes to change, there's talk and there's action. my grandfather was a politician, i used to come on tv, any politician would come on and my grandfather would go like this. i didn't know what that meant. he was an italian immigrant. i said, granld pa what is that. he said the politicians, that's all they do is talk. we should do this, we should do this, we should do this. yeah, do something. what have you done, what have you actually accomplished for people besides this. we're about doing, about action, about results. seize the day. carpe diem. we have a moment here where we can make change. it's not just about seizing the day, seizing a moment. how do you say seize the moment

in latin? nobody knows. i took latin. i should know. carpe momentum. that's my latin translation. i wouldn't vouch for that. that's the best i could do. seize the moment. we have a moment. new york is going to seize the moment. legislation is going to come back next week. we have the say their name agenda, transparency of prior disciplinary actions for police officers, the 50-a bill. no chokeholds. how many times do you have to learn the same lesson? no false race-based 911 reports. i did as an executive order five years ago, let's codify it so it's not up to the next governor to decide whether or not they want to do it.

it will be in the law. pass the bills. actually make the climate change. then other states will look at new york and say, well, new york did this. why can't we do it? that's new york at its best. that's history of new york, right? that's stonewall, triangle factory fire. that's new york at its best leading the way. that's what we did when we passed marriage equality, and the rest of the country said, oh, let's look at that. we passed the bill and went right across the nation. free college tuition, minimum wage $15 so people can actually live and pay rent and eat all at the same time. the best gun safety law in the united states after the sandy hook massacre. carpe momentum. the most aggressive renewable

energy program. and we'll be the first with the best criminal justice reform. that's the plan for next week. next week on monday new york city opens, starts phase one. that's great news. you look at the numbers on new york city. they have dropped dramatically. they were at a high of positive testing at 57%. they're now down to 2%. you want to talk about a turnaround? this one, my friends, is going to go in the history book. new york was the hardest hit, and in 98 days we have gotten to a much, much different place. there is no state in the united states that has gone from where we were to where we are. no state in the united states that has gone from where we were to where we are. you'd be hard-pressed to find a

counted that went from where we were to where we are. hospitalizations went from 12,000 down to 1,500. phase one guidelines starts monday. it's construction. it's manufacturing. it's curbside pickup pursuant to these rules. curbside pickup, instore pickup where curbside is not practical. >> all right. we're going to take a quick break and we'll keep an eye on the press conference to see if there's any more news. we'll be right back. introducing new voltaren arthritis pain gel, the first and only full prescription strength non-steroidal anti-inflammatory gel available over-the-counter. new voltaren is powerful arthritis pain relief in a gel.

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we are back. i've got a breaking news update for you. the two buffalo police officers who were seen shoving a 75-year-old man to the ground during protests in that city have been charged. they've been charged with assault. that's a significant development

in that case you all will remember as we discussed earlier in the day. all 57 members of that detail resigned from it. they didn't resign from the police force. they resigned from that security detail in protest over the discipline action of the two officers well, those two have been charged with assault. malcolm and sara are back. i interrupted you when we went to the cuomo press conference. i want to let you finish your thought so please feel tree. >> i'd like to end with this discussion about what tom cotton wrote in his op-ed to "the new york times" where he called on president trump to use the overwhelming force of the united states armed forces on american citizens. this is the most disgusting un-american thing i have ever heard. i find it absolutely amazing that a man who swore an oath to protect and defend the constitution of the united states would actually think that we should be treating u.s. citizens like they're iraqis, like they're yemenis, like

people from a foreign terrorist group. they have completely forgotten their honor. they have completely forgotten what this nation stands for if they ever knew about it. this is unbridled, powerful -- i mean lust of power that donald trump and tom cotton and lindsey graham are all espousing here. they are essentially saying they would rather kill american citizens than defend the constitution. and that's where our soldiers, sailor, airmen, marines and guardians will have a decision to make as to whether they will follow an unlawful order or uphold their defense of the constitution. >> and, sara, this is where i think people get quite nervous. you know, donald trump has made a real play to corrupt every institution in our government. he has gutted the state department and put a man in charge of it who is not defensive of the state department and its staff.

he's gutted every agency from top to bottom from the department of education and if you go to regular police officers, he has encouraged them to not be gentle when you're putting a suspect in the car, be rough. he wants people to be more rough, be more strong, his favorite word. he's encouraged a culture much like rudy giuliani did when he was mayor of new york city among police that is not exactly about, you know, being, you know, sort of genteel or being kind or serving the public but about being an us versus them to be more military iistic. do you worry the descent toward what people are throwing around the word fascism, that we are at risk of, that there will be less of a defense because donald trump has, you know, taken that ethos of his and it's gone all the way down the chain. >> yes, absolutely. you know, i live in st. louis and covered ferguson protests on the ground and one thing that's

very distinct from then and now back in 2014 the police were afraid of being filmed. they were afraid of having their brutality captured and now they're reveling in it because they do not have obama and holder, they have trump and bill barr and they know that state sanctioned violence is permissible. they know that they can get away with anything and there's also another, you know, broadened culture which is white supremacy which is white supremacy overtly as a goal of the government, as a goal of the police, they're not apologetic about that. and it is something that we should be deeply alarmed about. any kind of american authoritarianism will be rooted in racist violence. that's how our country was founded. it was founded on slavery, on native american genocide. this was the original sin of america and it has never been remedied and trump and his cohorts both in america and abroad are going to exploit that. they're going to exploit that cruelty, exploit that weakness

and it's up to americans to remedy it. to tell the truth. to demand justice, to not back down and to realize that they will continue to erode our rights. they're now trying to erode the right to freedom of assembly and move on to freedom of speech, free media. the only amendment they care about is the second amendment and we should be worried about how they'll employ that as well. >> yeah, i moon, you know, malcolm, donald trump very gratuitiously threw in second amendment rights into his strange, bizarre speech after he cleared the capitol of protesters violently. he threw that in, you do see vigilantism. we saw what happened to ahmaud arbery. those men, one a former police officer felt perfectly free to chase down a man and kill him and do it while having it videotaped. they didn't seem to think that was a problem. there is a challenge here where it goes all the way down, right? you've seen the head of the

police union in minnesota, in milwaukee call the protesters terrorists. you've seen him at a trump rally, the union head this. is systematic so i want to ask a final question to you, are you confident this is not seeped enough into our armed forces who are still the most highly respected entity in the country that they'll stand strong against this. does general mattis lead them in a different direction by having come forward? >> well, first off, i have no fear that the armed forces will maintain the honor of the service. they will maintain their duty to the country and they will not follow unlawful orders. i mean, we saw some examples of it. the national guardsmen in los angeles dancing in the streets, you know, doing with the civilians, so i really think that things will go well on that part. the police, i can't vouch for them. >> yeah.

yeah, absolutely. well, we have -- that is the entity that people have the most faith in yet at this point, so god bless them. malcolm and sara, thank you so much. really appreciate it. thank you for joining us today and watching today. we'll be back phommachanh. for now stay tuned for my friend alex witt. so as you head back out on the road, we'll be doing what we do best. providing some calm amidst the chaos. with virtual, real-time tours of our vehicles as well as remote purchasing. for a little help, on and off the road. now when you buy or lease a new lincoln, we'll make up to 3 payments on your behalf. introducing ore-ida potato pay. where ore-ida golden crinkles are your crispy currency to pay for bites of this... ...with this. when kids won't eat dinner, potato pay them to.

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at this hour, a procession of cars in north carolina filing into the venue where hundreds

are expected to pay respects to george floyd. this is north carolina. on the other side there are the protesters gathering in philadelphia at this hour. it is expected to be a dramatic move in the next couple of hours here in new york as well, in d.c. and across this country. good day, everyone, from msnbc world headquarters in new york it is high noon in the east. welcome to all of you to "weekend's with alex witt." that private memorial service for george floyd is taking place right now in raeford, north carolina, where floyd was born and where his sister stills live. an emotional crowd was outside when his casket arrived at the church. [ crowd chanting ] mourners broke into chants of "black power" and george floyd as they lined up to pay their respects. and some more voices of outrage