good afternoon, i'm alicia menendez. it is day 12 now, nearly two weeks of mass protests from coast to coast, and the crowds show no sieps signs of slowing. this is a live picture of washington, d.c. they're expecting the largest crowds to date. the white house has been fortified with new barriers and added security because of the near-constant protests. this is not only happening in washington. we've seen massive crowds from new york to philadelphia, chicago and los angeles today. we start this hour just a block from the white house near lafayette park. msnbc has more. maura, tell us about the progression of the day. where are these protesters marching to? >> reporter: hey, yeah, it's been a busy afternoon here in d.c. there's been pockets of protests popping up around the city and then migrating from spot to spot. we started our day this morning at the lincoln memorial and then moved over to capitol hill, and

now we're here at lafayette park outside of st. john's, right across from the white house, of course, where it was renamed the black lives matter plaza. i want to introduce you to julian, he's a protester that's been out here multiple days. him and his friends made this beautiful tribute to breonna taylor. you've been teargassed and have been protesting. what's the message you have for people when you protest like this? >> i think we need stand in solidarity with those who have been unjustly targeted by a system that perpetuates institutionalized racism. i think we need to stand with george and with breonna and make it the human thing to do in my opinion. >> reporter: and what does it mean to you to see these crowds coming out day after day? >> i think it's power. i think it's -- the people serve the power that be. they're rightfully angry about something that affects everyone but has been brutal for black

people for hundreds of years. >> reporter: yeah, thank you so much. enjoy the day. the message we've heard from a lot of demonstrators out here today is the fact that it's going to take everybody coming together. we've seen lots of racial diversity and diversity in age, people bringing their families out in order to unite that message of having power. we've seen signs against the president and vice president pence here today talking about voting him out and people needing to bring that action to the voting booth come november as they keep pushing for change. alicia? >> maura, thank you. as thousands of demonstrators take to the streets nationwide, it is becoming apparent that george floyd's death while in police custody is not being seen as an isolated act of police brutality. a recent abc ipsis poll shows that 74% of americans believe that floyd's death a sign of broader problems in the treatment of african-americans by police. the very people out protesting the pandemic of racism may be at

higher risk of the other pandemic, the coronavirus, which continues to take a disproportionate toll on black americans. according to the covid tracking project, the coronavirus has already claimed over 22,000 black lives, and black americans are dying at a rate nearly two times higher than their population share. these two issues of police violence and the pandemic's unequal strain are branching stemming from the -- branches stemming from the same true. protesters are highlighting the root of rarcial disparities and demanding change. founder of black futures lab and associate professor of women and gender studies and africa studies at rutgers and author of one of my favorite books, "eloquent rage: a black feminist discovers her superpower." this. for your time. you have been connecting the dots from the very go inning, and recently in your "rolling stone" piece you called racism the underlying condition. when you take a step back, when

you look at what is happening in the streets, do you believe that americans are beginning to connect those dots? >> well, certainly. i think, alicia, that folks are connecting the dots because everyone's feeling the effects of this pre-existing condition. that black folks and brown folks have felt for generations. i think, you know, the coronavirus has exposed certain holes in the boat so to speak that are inherent in this country's, you know, faults. i think folks are understanding that there are systemic issues that people need to address. and folks need to address not simply with rhetoric but with action. this is the kind of attention that needs to be brought to these problems if anything is going to be done. >> alicia, as a movement leader, how do you look at this moment? how do you harness the energy that you are seeing in this moment and making sure that both there are changes that are made immediately, but also that there is that connective tissue, that bridge that takes us from this

moment to the next moment without losing momentum? >> well, that's a really important question, alicia. and i think the thing that we're the most focused on is using this moment to advance concrete changes that benefit and impact our communities. the reality is we cannot address the issue that protesters are out in the streets around if we continue to try to tinker with the problem rather than getting to the root. the root of this is that from cities up to congress, our budget priorities are completely out of whack, and we are ov overinvesting in policing and punishment and underinvesting in the promise of our communities. you have heard a demand out here around defunding police. it's an important demand. it is a demand that essentially says that we need to limit the scope, the size, and the role of police in our communities, and we need let the people who can actually solve problems do that.

and frankly, you know, when we're talking about choke holds and body cameras and all of these things, these are ways for us to address things in a short-term way, but fundamentally we cannot allow police to oversee themselves, and that is a big issue that we're facing here. so if we want to see the kinds of changes that we need in order to really advance not only stopping police violence but enrich ying our communities, we have to look at where we're spending our money, and we have to take a look at what we're asking police to be doing in our communities. >> brittany, friday would have been breonna tailor's 27th birthday. we have talked a lot about brionna taylor these last 24 hours. you were quick to point out from the beginning that her voice and her story was not being centered in this national narrative. why is that, and why is it important to make sure that black women are at the center of the conversation that we're

having today? >> right. thank you. so i want to give a shout out to many of the activists in louisville who are on the ground and are really trying to make sure that we are talking about brionna taylor's case. the police officers who burst into her house after midnight, shot her eight times and murdered her while she was sleeping in her bed, have not been charged with a crime. and this is why this demand around policing and defunding the police is so important because it is part of this broader sense that the police can do things in our communities without impunity. there's a reason why black women are not at the center. people are very comfortable with black women securing the vote, very comfortable with us making sure that democrats make it into office and doing the labor, the custodial work of democracy. but we are very often not at the center of any kind of national politics. and so there has been work, particularly in the movement for black lives broadly, to really center gender, to center the concerns of black women whether

they're sis gender or transgender and to say that they matter and should be a drive for politics. the reality is that we saw george floyd murdered on camera. because of that, it fits this old lynching script that we have about police and vigilantes targeting black men and lynching and murdering them and humiliating them. and volleyball often that is just not a narrative that we tell about black women even though historically they were lynching v chips, too. it's -- lynching vims, too. it's important to realize that the tenor and tide of this is changing, and it is changing because of the commitment in this generation of activists to say that gender matters and to say that it's not enough in this country to end white supremacy. it is also important that we end systems like patriarchy and capitalism. we're trying to get free. we're trying to put a liberation agenda on the table. and that means that it's not enough if we free black people but we still have a system in which we think to free black people is to equate the freedom

with black men being able to do what they want and black women's concerns not being addressed. that means we have to talk about brionna taylor's story. the thing that's most interesting -- she was erased from the story for a couple of months, and she was an essential worker in the middle of this pandemic. we've been talking this pandemic about how essential workers are so important, and yet an emt gets killed in the middle a pandemic, and because she's a black woman, you know, in many cases it barely raised an eyebrow until now. this is for love for brionna on her birthday. >> jamil, the nfl has issued a statement saying it was wrong to send players protesting police violence stating in pae ing iin encourage all to speak out and peacefully protest. we, the nfl, believe black lives matter." there is clearly a name missing from that statement. do you think this is the first

of several statements that we see, and what do you make of it? how do you contextualize it in the larger cultural moment? >> certainly the name of colin kaepernick was missing from that statement. i think certainly if not an apology for colin kaepernick, certainly an acknowledgment that his protest was valid, an acknowledgment that his nonviolent protest was legitimate and was -- in a lot of ways successful in driving home the point that this -- that this crisis was something that we need to be paying attention to. and it's something that was ahead of its time to some degree. and frankly, i think the nfl, if it's going to apologize, and i say this a former nfl blimp myself. if the nfl is going to apologize for not getting it they need to acknowledge who did get it. while this was an important step in the back the players, you know, when president trump attacked them, i think that is

to some degree important, the nfl does have a long way to go in terms of acknowledging its own faults. >> you have tweeted out that you think they should rehire kaepernick. what's the message that that sends? >> well, it sends that this is a message that is not symbolic but that actually has substance. quite frankly, colin kaepernick, eric reed, and others who participated in a nonviolent protest that was meant to raise awareness around the ongoing epidemic of police violence in black communities, they were completely shut out of their career. and frankly had lies told about them up until very recently, right. there was a thing that we saw that mistakenly identified colin kaepernick as having retired from the nfl when we all know that for the better part of at least a year he's been saying

that i am ready to work, i am able to work, i want to uphold my first amendment rights to call attention to what is happening to black people. so it's important that this statement was made, but it doesn't mean a lot without the substance behind it. yes, 100%, colin kaepernick should be rehired. eric reed, right, should be rehired. but again, we have this ongoing dynamic where we see, you know, companies and corporations across the nation saying, yes, yes, black lives matter, but we haven't actually dived into well, what are your practices when it comes to your black employees? whether they be athletes, right, or whether it be who's in your senior leadership in your company. we don't want black lives matter to just be a symbol or a brand that people attach themselves to. and as somebody who helped to co-found the black lives matter global network, i can say that not only have we been very, very clear about the fact that this is about all black lives, but we've also been very clear that police violence is the tip of

the issue. and i think when we look at what happened with colin kaepernick, this is a great example of ways in which black lives don't matter in our economy or in our industries. >> we're going to keep talking about all of that next. jamil, alicia, and brittany, thank you so much. at the heart of this moment in america is an important debate over how to keep our communities safe. we'll talk about some of the policy solutions being proposed. e policy solutions being proposed. arthritis pain gel, the first and only full prescription strength non-steroidal anti-inflammatory gel available over-the-counter. new voltaren is powerful arthritis pain relief in a gel. voltaren. the joy of movement.

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as nationwide protests extend into a second straight weekend, self cities are attempting to take the first steps toward police reform and accountability. two suspended buffalo police officers have now been charged with second-degree assault after this video showed them shoving a 75-year-old man to the ground in front of city hall thursday. both officers have pled not guilty and will return on july 20th for a felony hearing. as protests continue in minnesota, the minneapolis city council has voted to ban police choke holds and require officers to intervene any time they see unauthorized use of excessive force in the wake of george floyd's death. rashad robinson is the president of color of change. andre perry is a fellow at the brookings institute and author of "know your price: valuing black people and property in

america's cities." jessica bird is a founding partner and principal strategist at three-point strategies. i'm happy to see you all. i want to start with you, andre. you see that there are these reforms being laid out in different cities, and yet one of the questions we keep coming back to is who is actually going to monitor and track those reforms and make sure that they are being held accountable? >> well, as we know and as many have heard, there's a decentralized nature to policing in this country that's going to be very difficult to manage. that's why i'm looking toward attorney general ellison to provide leadership here. ironically, folks, states have used preemptive laws, and those are laws that say the upper levels of government overrun the local policy. they have used those laws to

thwart many local progressive policies. it will be interesting to see how states will act for this set of policies. i do agree that we have to have some kind of local authority on this. but theuality -- ultimately the way to get to a reduction in these kind of violent acts is to defund the police force. as long as we are feeding this beast of -- of prisoners and people are incarcerated, you're going to see these kind of violent acts. >> that leads me to the question that i want to ask you, rashad. you have the governor of new york laying out, say their name agenda, that would outlaw choke holds, make 911 calls subject to hate crime prosecution, appoint the state attorney general as an independent investigator into allegations of police abuse. do you see these reforms as a step toward defunding the

police, or do you see it actually as a sort of undercutting this argument for divestment? >> the only thing that is a step toward defunding the police is defunding the police. and all these other policies get us around the simple fact that even when we've had policies that have been implemented that have been sort of reform minded, police budgets have continued to swell. we've continued to see sort of more power for police officers. the fact of the matter is is i couldn't agree with everything that's been said about defunding the police. why have we continued to have barriers where even as crime goes down in this country, we see this issue of police budgets going up? and it's because there is an incredibly powerful lobby that not only continues to fight for swollen police budgets but also continues to protect killer cops. and so just like we can't deal with the fact that americans by and large believe we need sensible gun laws, but we can't

get there because of the nra. we can't get to police reform because of the fraternal order of police. at every turn, they will say out loud that things like racial profiling doesn't exist. they will protect and defend police officers. they are the ones who will make sure that the killer of tamir rice, not only do they call tamir rice menacing in the price, but they make sure that police officer after he is fired gets hired someplace else. we all have police chiefs that will stand behind reforms all to see the fraternal order of police work to slow down the actual -- work to slow down responses to calls in neighborhoods. this is what they do. so unless politicians get clear, don't take their money, stand up against them, we will continue to get policies on the books, policies that are good, but policies we can't enforce. that doesn't make any of our lives better. >> jessica, i have heard a version of what rashad is saying which is this is no longer about

the conversation about which reforms you need to put in place, it's no longer a policy questions. this has shifted to becoming a question about political will. so for you, jessica, as an organizer, as you look at these protests across the country, how do you harness that energy and turn it into political will such that you actually see the type of change that rashad and andre are talking about? >> yes. thanks, and thanks for making this conversation mainstream. it feels good to be amongst folks who are offering solutions and making plain what the demand is right now. we're already winning. we've seen places like l.a. where the city council said we want you to find $150 million from the police budget where we can invest it in communities and community safety protocols. we've seen the minneapolis city council and many elected leaders in minnesota say it's time that we have real conversations about public safety where we take that

from the police force and we find alternatists, and we also invest in our communities. so we need folks to interrogate the local elected leaders who are responsible for bringing forth solutions and being accountable and transparent to their citizens. we have public policymakers and social scientists and data scientists who locally can help us to craft legislation and to think about structures where we can continue to not only move resources from the city budgets, but where we can double down on education and economic opportunities, where we can invest in small businesses and really create spaces of safety for our community. and so the last week has been incredible. it used to be that talking about defunding the police was considered this far-left, radical notion. whereas now folks realize that defunding the police is a conversation that is rooted in

community accountability, that's rooted in actually being responsive to what citizens need, and about an elected leadership that is curious, has the political will and willing to offer solutions. and i believe that as the conversation continues to grow on the ground, as organizations get even stronger and as elected leaders meet this moment, that we'll see this conversation grow into some real solutions. >> andre, i want to bring you in on the jobs report we saw. the unemployment rate for white workers dropped nearly 2% points last month to 12.4%. the rate for unemployed black and asian workers rose slightly in may. i want to say we originally reported that the overall unemployment rate fell to 13.3%. however, the bureau of labor statistics says a miscalculation means the unemployment rate may be at least 16%. look at those black numbers, though, the black unemployment numbers. how does that compound what we're seeing from these

protests? >> yes, we know that there's structural inequality in the labor market, the same attitudes that led to a police officer putting his knee in the back of the neck until it choked out a citizen or the same attitudes held by mortgage brokers, as -- as well as corporate executives. and why this is importance in terms of policing, we know that states are going to go into austerity mode, they're going to have to lay off and make cuts. but what's clear, we're going to have black citizens in states all over the country, including minnesota, who need support. and you got to move money out of the criminal justice system in order to put it into education, health care, and other essential services. and so the incarceration of folks is really crowding out budgets so that we can actually deal with the economic suffering of people. so these things are inextricably linked that economic justice is

absolutely connected to social justice. and we got to recognize that in order to make room for economic mobility, we have got to remove those -- the budgets of policing. >> rashad, the mayor of d.c. has emblazoned "black lives matter" on the road to the white house. what action needs to follow that? >> what action needs to follow that is she needs to start dealing with the police budget in that city. you know, we need real action. i think it's great. i think it's a powerful move. but that move is presence. unless we actually deal with the power. the power has to go right back to those budgets. you know, people don't experience issues. they experience life. and the forces that hold us back are deeply interrelated. i appreciate us talking about this sort of economics to this. whether it's political inequality following economic inequality or a media culture that sustains and makes the

criminal justice system work the way it is, we have to focus on all those things. and we have to continue to tell the right story. so i think far too often, you know, we get into these present moments, but i think we need to land the story so we don't focus on the kind of arc of it all but focus on the structure of it all. that means black communities are not vulnerable. black communities have been under attack. black communities have been targeted. it's not that banks are less likely to give loans to blacks, it's not that black people are less likely to get loans, it's that banks are less likely to give loans to black people. we need to continue to put all of the energy and focus the energy on changing the systems. that is how we get to 5, 10, 15 years in from now when we can look back and see all of this energy translating into change that's made people's lives better. so yes, say black lives matter, but yes, then move that black lives matter work into changing the structures and the policies that have put black lives in

harm's way. >> jessica, i only have 30 seconds, but i want to be sure i give you the final word. you are renewing calls for the president to resign. why now? >> because he has created a condition of violence against black people. he ran against violent -- toward multiracial communities, in particular black people. he has called for the coordination of not only the military presence in our communities, he has created an untenable situation in which there has been brought violence upon people locally and across the country. it is no longer okay to believe this is just one simple administration. this is in many ways a coordinated effort of infiltration and protest, and he needs to resign. and we need to consider how we protect ourselves in future places against violent leaders like this. i encourage everyone to go to defendblacklives.com so you can gauge with the movement for black lives' demands, and work on defunding the police where

you live. >> rashad, andre, and jessica, thank you all so much. hundreds gathered in north carolina today to pay their respects to george floyd. we'll take you to the touching memorial service next. service . ♪ here's a razor that works differently. the gillette skinguard it has a guard between the blades that helps protect skin. the gillette skinguard. you ever wish you weren't a motaur?

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as we continue to monitor protests taking place across the nation today, we want to take you to north carolina where a memorial service for george floyd is under way. nbc's priscilla thompson is in rayford, north carolina. i understand you spoke to a couple of floyd's siblings before heading into the service. what did they tell you? >> reporter: that's right. that private ceremony is under way now with more than 100 family and friends of george floyd's inside. but before that happened, a couple of his siblings came over, and we were able to chat a little bit. they described george floyd as a gentle giant and talked about some of their favorite memories of him saying that they have just been absolutely devastated by the idea that they'll never

get to laugh with him again or tell them -- tell him that they love him. and they shared memories of when he made the football team in high school and how excited he was and how he used to follow them as a child. it was kind of annoying at the time, but they'd always let him tag along. and they mentioned that it's because of those memories they didn't want to view george floyd's body in the casket. listen to what his brother told us. >> changing his diapers, that's our baby brother. i can't go in and see him laying in a coffin. it would drive me crazy forever. every time i close my eyes, that's what i would see. and i can't do that. i can't do that. >> reporter: and so you see there, they're just overwhelmed expressed a lot of emotion around the idea that the charges have now been upgraded against that officer who his knee on floyd's neck and the other

officers who were there. they hope his legacy is one of peace but also of change, and that a change can come out of this tragic incident. >> all right. priscilla, thank you so much. now to louisville, kentucky. a vigil is happening today for breonna taylor who would have celebrated her 27th birthday yesterday. nbc's caliper -- cal perry is in louisville. >> reporter: the mood has complete changed compared to a week ago. people are handing out free food and drinks. it's very hot. people trying to stay hydrated. back this way you see the tents around. what we're talking about is a really happy atmosphere. it was a week ago when we saw death and destruction in the streets, sunday into monday. david mcattie was shot in a shooting, that is still under investigation. watch out behind -- we have ice here. people trying to stay hydrated. people are registering each other to vote. we've seen a giant birthday card for breonna and in about an hour they're going to lift hundreds,

maybe thousands of balloons into the air over the city of louisville. hopefully things will remain peaceful. the national guard is still out of sight. so there is a lot of optimism that the city will remain peaceful at least through the weekend, alicia. >> all right. cal, thank you. up next, the president was quick to call for troops to stop the civil unrest across the country. we'll talk about the generals who spoke out against that plan next. that plan next

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it neutralizes bacteria for a healthier mouth than even the leading multi-benefit toothpaste. crest. a curfew will begin be in place in new york city tonight. right now crowds are out as protests continue across the big apple. chris jansing, the curfew has been controversial what are activists saying about it? >> reporter: well, look, they know that they're taking a chance if they go out. but for many of them who decide that they're going to stay out after curfew, it is a very specific decision. they are essentially sending the message that says these are our

streets, the police have been dominating our streets, these protests have been peaceful, there have been complaints about aggressiveness on the part of the nypd. and even though the mayor has stood behind the police, the governor has stood behind the police, there have been viral videos that have caused them to suspend some police officers, and they're investigating other claims of police abuse. in the meantime, this is exactly what these protesters say about being out. the protests day after day after day during the day have been peaceful. this one is going into its fourth hour, alicia. and even though there have been occasional downpours, while a few people left around the three-hour mark, as you can see, the crowd remains enormous. for many of them, it's a question of finding that energy, keeping it going, keeping that emotion. listen to what one protester told me.

>> can donate, we can email, we can petition, but when you come out here, i'm going to get emotional, but you're part of something that's -- that's important. i think coming here and showing solidarity, feeling like we're part of this movement. understanding that it's not a moment, it's a movement, is critical i think right now. >> reporter: where does that emotion come from? >> lots of emotion. i think the news has been really difficult to watch every day. and if i feel heavy after a week, as a brown person, a person of color, but i'm not black, i think what do "peoplpe- what do people feel every damn day? >> reporter: if there's aer are occurring message here, and there are many, including vote, it's that there have to be changes. they're tired of politicians talking. they're tired of when a man or woman dies at the hands of police, marches happening but nothing changing. so very specifically, there are

organizations here calling for the de-funding of police. there have been signs all around here, here's one that says divest and invest. that summarizes it. they want to take $1 billion away from the $6 billion nypd budget, at least one organization does, and take that money, put it toward education, put it toward social programs, put it toward affordable housing. all the things they say aren't available now that cause people to have interactions with the nypd in the first place. this shows no sign of letting up. there are several other large protests happening later tonight. and we'll see you at 8:00 when the curfew how many people decide to go out marching. alicia, while there were 800 arrests on tuesday night, then it went down under 300 on wednesday and thursday, down to 40. and in fact the district attorney is saying he's not even going to prosecute people for staying out after curfew. they have been continuing to do arrests, and police say they will be out again tonight

enforcing the curfew. alicia? >> all right. chris jansing, thank you. this week, former defense secretary james mattis criticized the president for his handling of the protests, telling "the atlantic," quote militarizing our response as we witnessed in washington, d.c., sets up a conflict, a false conflict between the military and civilian society. it erodes the moral ground that ensures the trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect and which they themselves are a part. i'd like to bring in the host of "the angry americans" podcast and the founder of iraq and ask, veterans of america. you have mattis there talking about an erosion of moral ground. what else is lost when you see this type of militarization of response? >> it's core the trust with the american people. i mean, the military works for the american people. they work for every american. they stand by ready to protect peaceful protests. they're not a ground force for

trump's preliminary agenda. what we've seen since trump took office is politicization, manipulation, abuse. the 82nd airborne a couple of weeks ago were considered heroes. they were helping build hospitals and helping with covid-19. now americans are afraid they're going to come in to squash protests. that's what trump has been to the military. he's eroded its very core, and it's very dangerous now. this is maybe the most dangerous position americans could be in ever. i'm talking about vietnam, a guy who served in iraq. this is the ultimate quandary to put them in standing across from -- from civilian protests. we don't want it. we don't need it. that's why mattis, mullen, mccraven, and so many are speaking out forcefully. it's ar a very important time to let the president know we won't tolerate it. >> they are speaking out forcefully. do you believe those in power are listening? >> yes. governors have said no. the president requested national

guard forces, and many governors said no. they have been deployed in about 324 states -- 24 states. that's going up -- sorry, doubled in the last four days. the number of father's day troops are going up. but those are under state authority. people like governor tim walsh command the minnesota national guard. interestingly, he's one of the few governors that served in the minnesota national guard, as well. he's commanding the very national guard he used to serve in. and that's a direct contrast. you see him pulling back because he's been in uniform, he understands the limitations of force. while trump, who avoided the draft and never served in uniform, thinks they're going to pounds people. it's dangerous. you'll see people in the highest levels and in the military pushed back, but we need the american people to push back. our naertional guardsmen may be part of the protest. we are not a monolith. we are part of the country and should not be manipulated by this president.

>> you have seen real weapons of war and destruction, the damage that they can inflict. some in the house including ruben galleo are proposing legislation to limit the military-style equipment going to police departments around the country. i wonder what you make of those type of legislative initiatives? >> i think it's the right direction. you have to ask yourself will this help or hurt. and rolling in military-style weapons, the heavy vehicles, does not de-escalate the situation. so i think you'll hear some of the most concerned voices are the folks who have carried weapons in conflict and stood across from iraqi and afghan civilians for the last decade and a half. we know what conflict looks like. and that's why we're urging responsibility. frankly, the military could teach a lot of our police departments quite a bit. a lot of the police departments have never had to homemahold we. many national guard units have. they've responded to wildfires and hurricane katrina, and so

much. i hope that the national guards if used responsibly can actually be a bridge here. they want to see this move forward, but the president is the lightning rod. he didn't serve us well during the covid outbreak. veterans were decimated and hurt dramatically by covid. he continues to manipulate them. you'll see that in a couple of weeks when he does the graduation at west point, as well. we're not a photo op, we're not a prop or a political chew toy for donald trump. all of us need to say that. this is a moment of grief and anguish for many, especially those in black communities. up next, we'll talk about how vital it is to listen, to learn, and show up. stay with us. p. st wayith us new voltaren arthritis pain gel, the first and only full prescription strength non-steroidal anti-inflammatory gel available over-the-counter. new voltaren is powerful arthritis pain relief in a gel. voltaren. the joy of movement. new voltaren is powerful arthritis pain relief in a gel. what do we wburger...inner? i want a sugar cookie... wait... i want a bucket of chicken... i want... ♪

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she's confident, protected, her strength respected. depend. the only thing stronger than us, is you. she's co[ scoffs ]rotected, are ythe weirdest.cted. you make everyone around you crazy. people are normal then they hang out with you and then they're jack nicholson in "the shining". i'm gonna tell my mom you tried to drown me. it's an above ground pool! you're like eight feet tall! over the course of a few weeks, the deaths of george floyd, breonna taylor and ahmaud arbery have sent a shock wave through communities. why hasn't grief typically been a part of this conversation?

>> you know, i think people tend to have a hard time naming their emotions in moments like this. but for me, as you know, i've lost a mother at a young age, we lost a pregnancy a year ago. i was pretty quick to understand all of these different things i was feeling really fall under this umbrella of grief. i think if we don't give people a minute to really just sit with their feelings and process, we're not going to be able to move forward here. >> i want to read an excerpt from your piece. "you struggle to focus on work. you feel an unfamiliar tightness in your chest or perhaps your stomach. i am here to tell you that pain is grief." how are you dealing with your grief in the moment? >> it's a challenge.

for someone who works in the equity space and a grief space, there's a lot of demands on my time. and given what's happening in the country right now, i have a desire to be in a lot of these critical conversations, but i also recognize that i space, i need time to exercise, i need to spend time with my family, i need to spend time capturing even just small moments of joy and peace. and so to african-americans who are watching your show right now, i just want to say i hope that in the midst of this fight that we're in right now literally for our lives that you take a moment to acknowledge your feelings, to be close to your family and to find some joy, as hard as that is today. >> when you and i talk about this, it's not just about black americans taking the time and the space they need to experience those feelings, it's also about americans who are not black understanding the immense pain that black americans are in

right now, honoring that pain and showing up for them. what is the right way to show up in this moment? >> so one of the things i always say when people come to me on advice on how to show up in any moment is literally the worst thing you can do is nothing. so do something that feels authentic, do something that feels thoughtful. you know, in the last week i've had a number of white women in my life take steps to help advance my career. i had someone take a work project off of my plate. i've had people just let me know that they're thinking of me or share some of the things that they're trying to do to improve themselves and to improve their community. i think right now we need white americans to use really honest language to really pull up, to create space for black people to rest and to experience joy because without a period of grieving and then healing, we're not going to get to a place of

real racial reconciliation in this country. >> a lot of this processing is taking place on social media. how is that a double-edged sword? >> honestly it feels a bit disingenuous. for me to see either a company or even someone who i'm friendly with all of a sudden posting a black square or some other nonsense, it just doesn't feel genuine to me. i want to see people taking real actions. i want to see white people who are in my life doing things to chang their companies, change their business practices, in the street with black brothers and sisters and giving them the racial equality. i know want to know they're having the real conversations with their family members. so social media, i appreciate

it. if it's not followed with genuine action, i don't really care for it. >> marissa, thank you so much for making space for this conversation. >> thank you. >> that wraps it up for this hour. the reverend al sharpton picks up with "politics nation" after this. and at 6:00, a special report "politicsnation: anguish and action." that's coming up at the top of the hour here on msnbc. here onc what do you think? i don't see it. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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good evening and welcome to "politics nation." a special two-hour "politics nation" tonight. our special report, "anguish and action." our nation continues to smolder, protests raging now for 12 straight days in american cities, millions of citizens enraged by the death of george floyd and engaged in a mass conversation around policing in this country, perhaps never seen before. for the next two hours, we're going to articulate the anguish felt by so many black americans over