revealing how much america thinks this country is out of control. plus, who's pulling ahead r for president and which candidate just got a big republican endorsement. may not be who you think. right now, crowds are astreamin into lafayette park near the white house as we begin this third week since the killing of george floyd sparking outrage and around the world in fact, take a look at this demonstration near the u.s. embassy in london today. huge crowds taking part in an antiracism protest to show solidarity with floyd. moving to germany, new video from the boris soccer club. players taking a knee fashioning colin kaepernick's antiracism protest. also, new words between the white house and mayor of d.c., federal a agents sent in to demonstrators.

>> what americans saw was federal police forces tear gassing peaceful americans and what they actually did as you saw for the remaining days was turn out more people and more people who were there for peaceful protests. >> we've had up to 3, 4, 5, 600 folks there. there in d.c. and what we saw over the past week is really a city out of control and i'm happy to say that other the last several days, we've seen that violence ceo crease! and a new poll shows more people are troubled about george floyd's killing and actions of police than they are about protests. look at the numbers there. 2-1. and mayor de blasio ending the city wide curfew that made it illegal for residents to be outside after a 8:00 p.m. he explained why this morning. >> because we got each day better and better situation. more and more peaceful p protestors coming out. better situation overall each day. fewer and fewer arrests.

i made the decision to end the curfew. and honestly, i hope it's the last time we'll ever need a curfew in new york city. >> and expected soon. a gatt eing in midtown for a planned protest that organizers say could be the largest that new york has seen. we're going now u to corey x she's joining us from midtown, manhattan. so i know that you are trying to get into times square where specifically that protest is happening, but you haven't been able to. none is less, there's some activity over your should r ir. >> there's a lot happening and we're joined by the chairman of blacks lives matter new york. thank you for being with us. one thing i'll notice is alex, our host, talking about the location of all this and where we were earlier, so times square is blocked off. we have pau testers at 41st and broadway m how would you describe the turnout?

>> so far, so good. it's really interesting but because of black lives matter new york, our mayor has shut down times square because he doesn't want us inside times square with our agenda. they talk about destruction of property, us being angry. we have a plan. and think wouldn't let us present it in times square. >> and so you're presenting it out here no matter what. what is included in that plan? >> we have something that's very common sense. it's called the i can't breathe act. if an officer sees someone in medical distress an they say i can't breathe and they continue with that behavior and the person is injured, the officer is charge wd a class a individual. if they kill said individual, that officer is charged with murder. we also want to prosecute police for felonies for falsifying

documents. we want to disban police unions. we want to make -- we want economic empowerment for black communities. we have a plan. like we've been out here marching and now that the whole world is listening, we're presenting them with a plan. >> what do you make of the governor's say name agenda? >> i think it's a good first step but governor cuomo's say her name agenda is kind of watt aered down. it would be something that the moderate activists would promote. but for us radicals who are responsible for this movement across the country, we want real legislation. and that's why we came together nationally. as not just black lives matter, but other groups to come up with this thing called the black act. it's being put forth by a new organization called black opportunity and they need to play close attention to it. the governor is banning choke

holds. choke holds are banned in most police departments. no, prosecute that cop if he doesn't give someone medical assistance. a lot of people are being left to die in cars. >> what can we expect quickly out of this protest today? >> a plan. a lot of people have been mad, angry and just lashing out. we now have an agenda that we can advocate for which incorporate as lot of the other steps, legislation that people are pushing for around the city. like the elected civilian complaint where we elect people to invest the cops. right now, they're appointed by the police chief. by mayor de blasio and the police chief turns down 60% of their herecommendations. we've advocated if r a review u

board. we have a new york health care act. we have a plan. >> these are specific details. this message has been honed and has taken multiple days to bring people together to hear this message and bring them into this very fine message, very honed message, i should say, today. so i've seen more than 1,000 folks, guys, so we'll continue to follow it and bring you the latest as it goes. >> hey, do you, corey, don't let him go. does he expect, does hawk expect to get into times square? do they know they have a green light to actually get there? >> do you expect to be able to move into times square at any point today. >> no, we don't want to go to times square. we're going to mayor de blasio's house telling him to resign. >> there you have it. >> the man, governor cuomo, and mayor de blasio, disband police units and defund the misimmediately. >> we saw movement on that today

with de blasio's announcement about funding for nypd. appreciate you talking to us and we'll keep follow thg. >> thank you both of you. so for all of you who were expegting another massive protest in the nation's capitol today, tens of thousands in fact who braved the hot weather from northeast, washington all the way down into the white house on saturday, they're going to meet in dupont circle this afternoon, again another march. let's go to ali from washington. we've seen prominent news dlmak, lawmakers there along 16th street today. what are you seeing? >> alex, it's another day of peaceful protest here. even just in the last few minutes as we were getting ready to come on the air with you, we got an influx of protestors marching down 16th street, landing in frochbt the white house chanting vote him out. just some of the protest activity we've seen here this morning. there's hundreds of people out here already. you mentioned planned protests

for later this afternoon. that doesn't start until 3:00. and so clearically, people using this lafayette square park now renamed black lives matter plaza as a touch point in this movement right outside the white house where they can have their voices be heard. you also mention we've had local lawmakers and officials come out. you've heard the d.c. mayor here had painted black lives matter down 6 street down the road white house. overnight, we had jon lewis, a civil rights icon who's battling cancer now, standing on the street looking at the mural. overnight, protestors and activists did add defund the police. which you can see on the screen. sort of give iing a a tangible you in addition to asking police and law enforcement to revisit the way that they police and use force. also now saying that they want to see that defunded. they want to see instead that

money going towards communities of color trying to reverse the systemic racism we've seen so often. as i was out here this morning, i spoke with a a local pastor and asked her is this a movement or a moment? >> do you get the sense this is a moment or a movement? >> i think a movement. for sure. i'm old enough to remember the 1968 riots here in d.c. and my feeling is that these, this is a pivotal what we would call in the church, a kye rios time, when god's holy spirit is moving in a different way and i feel the way wind of change and the people of god as i said before rise up to speak on behalf of justice together. >> she says she feels the winds of change coming and quite frankly, hearing from that pastor that this moment feels different, echoes so much of what we've heard from activists and protestors that seeing this

ground swell of support after the killing of george floyd really feels like a pivotal movement across the country. >> and we should note that defund the police in addition to black lives matter in large yellow letters and right in front of her charge and the close point to the white house. all right. thank you, see you again next hour. the president has anounlsed the national guard will tart pulling out of washington, d.c. monica alba is joining us from the white house. good day. what's happening there? >> yeah, alex, this is something the d.c. mayer had called for days ago and you see it today. there's a diminished presence from law enforcement and the national guard as they start to move away from washington, d.c. and in the last couple of nights, there's been the absence of a curfew u as you see the peaceful protes and large gatherings continue. i want to bring you u the latest nbc news "wall street journal" polling out today that was taken after the death of george floyd. where the pollsters actually

came up with a brand-new question to try to capture everything that's going on right now with the coronavirus pandemic, the state of the economy and the national unrest over the state of civil rights now. they asked responders whether they felt things were out of control in this country. and a whopping 80% said that yes, they do feel that's the case. while only 15% feel things are under control. and now when you take a look at whether the party breakdown aligns in terms of that, it was 92% of democrats who say they feel things are out of control versus 78% of independents and 66% of republicans and when we look at the president's overall job performance, this is something that actually has stayed larstay ed largely unchanged over the last couple of months with his approval hovering around 45% and 53% disapproving. this comes at a time when the president has no public events

this weekend we haven't herd from him apart from on twitter, but some top administration officials were on the sunday shows this morning and they were asked about systemic racism when it comes to policing and specifically on police brutality. we heard different answers from people in the trump administration and democrats. i want to play what the department of homeland security's acting secretary said. >> i do not think we have a systemic racism problem with law enforcement officers across this country. do i acknowledge that there are some that abuse their job? yes. again, we need to hold those accountable. >> look, if we're going to solve some of america's toughest problems, we've got to be painfully honest about what those problems are and we know that we have been fighting systemic racism in this country for 400 years. while i heard what the secretary aid, we have a lot of work to do and systemic racism is always

the ghost in the room. >> some different acknowledgments there that you heard across different parties there, alex. and now, the president hasn't answered that question directly. what the white house billed this news conference, the president didn't take any questions from reporters. that was one that was shouted by peter alexander on friday and the president shushed him, refusing to answer. we'll see how he answers that in the coming days. >> thank you from the white house. let's go from there now to minnesota where protestors are calling on officials to defend the minneapolis police department. shaq brewster is on the ground there for us. good day. what's the latest on all this? >> well, here at the site where george floyd was killed, you're still seeing people continue to come out, bring their families, their flowers, nice notes and pay their respects but today, we're seeing something new.

across the street at a church outside you're seeing a church service going on. an your door service. some tents to socially distance, but you have people who came to pay their respects also coming over and worshipping this sunday morning that we're having here, but across this city and the region, you're also seeing some tense moments as protests continue to happen. i was there yesterday in st. paul outside of the governor's mansion where protestors were demanding and asking the governor to look back at cases of fire alleged intanss of prior police brutality and examine this. there was also a scene where the mayor came out and was actually booed by some protestors after he said he wasn't in support of one of the demands you're continuing to hear grow among protestors. that's the defunding of police. listen to a little bit of that moment where he came out, said he wasn't in support of that. listen to what happened right

after. [chanting] that same group demanding the minneapolis police department be defund ed and disbanded will be meeting today. we know some council members will be in attendance this time around. you're continuing to hear it grow. they want these police departments disbanded and they want to see a new model of policing. >> what a beautiful sunday tenor there. the flowers, music, prayers, so different than what was happening you know, 11, 12 days ago right now. can i ask you about the plans for george floyd? i know he's buried tuesday. that's a schedule.

there's another memorial being held monday. what more do we know about the details of these events? >> things started here in minneapolis on thursday with that moving service, memorial service, in minneapolis and then yesterday, we saw his body was taken to north carolina where he was born and there was another memorial service there. monday will be a public memorial in houston, texas then he'll be laid to rest in houston on tuesday with another memorial there. you're seeing people continue to come out by the thousands. come out to pay their respects to george floyd. you can tell his life and legacy is having an impact on many, many people. >> absolutely. all right, thank you so much from minneapolis. we'll see you again. meantime, let's get more reaction on the brewing battle between the president and mayor of washington, d.c. this past week, president trump called the mayor incompetent after she pushed back on his decision to send federal troops in to manage protests. here's how she responded this

morning. >> what we saw last week was basically an invasion of our city. active duty army troops moved from all points around the country to threaten our autonomy? and what you saw and i won't have it reduced to a spat, was how i have to defend our taxpayers and it's sad to say that we would have u to defend ourselves against federal forces. >> joining me now is the former mayor of baltimore city. all i have to say about that is she sounds anything but incompetent but as i welcome you and as a former mayor, what is your reaction to the mayor's remarks and the back and forth with president trump? >> i could not be more proud of her. i sent her a note and said they were totally boss moves. she needed to defend her city. she needed to fight back against

really the tyrannical president of our united states and she did so in an incredible way. i'm very proud she stood up, held her ground and i'm also very proud that she is standing with those who seek justice in her city. >> let's talk about city leaders across this country. they are taking different approaches to the george floyd demonstration. so when you were mayor during the 2015 baltimore protest and you and i spoke during that time certainly, you said you were going to quote, make sure that the protestors were able to exercise their right to free speech then said we also gave thoeds who wish to destroy space to do that as well as we work very hard to keep that balance and to put ourselves in the best position to deescalate. so these uprisings you've seen over the past 12, 13 days, do you think that's still the best approach to these kinds of uprisings? >> well, when i said that, i was really trying to describe how i

was very fiercely going to protect the rights of free speech of all the protestors and what i was trying to describe unfortunately and artfully while i was giving the protestors that space to exercise their free right, first amendment right, that some used that space unfortunately to destroy. that being said, i was very mindful of not overmilitarizing our response. that's why we were able to keep the, the destruction and the, the, the riots, the things that people would say were out of control, it was one of very awful evening in baltimore then we were able to put in place a curfew and quell the unrest and really focus on getting the work done. you know i hear people say it's a movement or a moment. those are are feelings. and feelings don't change laws. in order for it to be a movement, we have to go arm in arm with people who want to move

forward. whether they're radical. whether they're moderate. whether they're in between. we need to be able to moving together and look for the things that, that we hair in commshare the goals we have in common, and identify those rules and laws that need to be changed and work on that. because when the protest is over, that's when the real work begins and i hope all those who are out in the streets with, with the ferver and energy that they have now will continue that fight because that's what's going to be needed for it to truly be a movement. >> indeed. >> as you well know, there were six police officers charged in the death of freddy gray, none of who were convicted. given that eck appearance, are you concerned it's going to be difficult to get a conviction with these four officers charged in george floyd's death? >> i think it was a very different case in the freddie gray case. there wasn't the video that we

have in the george floyd case. and i also know that after the cases of the officers and freddie gray, i know prosecutors all over the country have been made aware that they have to be very careful and cautious about how they charge and to make sure that the evidence they actually have, not what they're talking about, but the evidence they actually have, matches with the charges that they are bringing so they're able to get convictions. >> so, the mayor of minneapolis there, of course where george floyd was killed, was confronted by protestors. he has refused to commit to defunding their police department. what is your reaction to that, the backlash he got there as he was making his way through that crowd and what's your stance on defunding police? >> i don't think there can be a stance on defunding the police when there's no clear path

forward. i think the mayor in minneapolis and mayors around the country all want our cities to be safe. they want the community members to be respected and they want the police to honor the badge that they wear. how we get on the other side of this is going to be because we sit down, understanding that we might have differences of opinion, but we all want safer cities. we want to end racism in the criminal justice system, in the police department. how do we get there? and my hope is you know, after the, these fiery debates and the fever pitch that is going on right now across the country, we'll be able to sit down and actually iron out how we move forward because that's what's going to be needed. >> all right. good to see you again and nice to have your voice lent to this conversation. thank you for joining us. the high profile republican now throwing his support behind

joe biden. will other gop leaders follow suit? biden. will other gop leaders follow suit

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former secretary of state and chairman of the chief of staff colin powell announcing he's voting for joe biden in november. >> we have a institution and we have to follow that institution. and the president's drifted away from it and we have to use, he's been doing for the last several years is a word i would never have used before. i never would have used with any of the four presidents i've work ed for. he lies about things. and he gets away with it because people will not hold him accountable. i'm very close to joe biden on a social matter and political m matter. i've worked with him for 35, 40 years and he is now the candidate and i will be voting for him. >> joining me now, peter baker, chief white house correspondent for the "new york times" and political analyst. welcome to you. so we had the president reacting

to colin powell saying quote over twitter, rather a real tiff who is very responsible for getting us into the disastrous middle east wars, but look, he's the latest in a growing list of officials to criticize a sitting president. that alone, is there a precedence to it and how significant is that? >> a great deal of credibility with the people he remembered well i think by many republicans and democrats alike. he has shifted away from the republican party in the last few cycles. he did support president obama and hillary clinton in 2016 so in that sense, it may not be that big of a surprise but i think he represents part of the republican and democratic central spectrum u of the political world has grown so

discomfort by this president that they're willing to say out loud, you're not going to see president bush vote for him like they did. you're seeingly sa muhr cowsy say heshe's not going to commit. it's striking that the president has as much support among republicans as he does despite the establishment considered him to be distasteful from their point of view or unorthodox from their point of view or ideology and tan dards and integrity yet his approval ratings among republicans broadly, among republican voters, remain strong. there's a disconnect between sort of established republican leadership that's be there if last ten or 20 years and the voters that represent and support president trump, he's still in the roughly mid 40s into approval rating, high 80s or so among republicans and i think that that has remained

consistent throughout these three and a half years of his presidency. now joe biden is going to attract a lot of moderate republicans who have given up on president trump or never believed in him in the first place. the question is whether he can dig into that trump place. >> can i ask our director to put up the poll numbering regarding the break down of the sebs of the country thinking it's out of control right now, specifically focusing on the 78% of independents. who believe that the country is out of control, peter. if you're of the belief as many are, that this is a very p polarized country. democrats will vote democrat. republican will vote republican in general, then it comes down to the battle for the soul of republicans. those numbers now, 78%, of independents, 78% thinking this country's out of control, how does that fair for the president? can he turn that around? >> well, it's a great question. doesn't look like he wants to.

what the president has done throughout his presidency is stick to his core constituency. those who got him there in the trstenjak place. he's done nothing for the most part. there are some exceptions. but for the most part, he has kacatered to the core with the idea if tha if he maximized turnout by them in the right states, he can duplicate what he pulled off in 2016, which was an electoral college win. that's going to be a tough road this time. what we're seeing now in these swing states are really competitive races. not just in michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania, the states pretty key to president trump beating hillary clinton four years ago but even the states like florida, north carolina, there's a texas poll showing president trump and joe biden virtually tied there. if those state rs in play, that makes president trump's yjob tht much harder. he not only has to win back the

states he won last time, but hold on to these states that he is in danger of losing. now again, as early as five months out, polls have been wrong before but i think even within president trump's campaign right now is a great deal of concern. >> so more poll numbers here with the nbc "wall street journal" poll and it shows joe biden leading on a national level. it's unchanged from two months ago. tlas steadness to joe biden's lead. >> it's not changed since virtually the day he took office. this is the president we've seen in the history of polling that

has never had the support of the jorlt of the american public for a single day in office. not one day. that's remark bable. under normal circumstances, that's not a winning formula for an incumbent president. president trump has shown he defies the normal rules. are these polls going to reflect what we see in october? the president was really buoyed on friday by you know, positive jobs report that defied the economic predictions of the so-called experts and he's hoping he can build momentum on that, convince voters that yeah, things have been bad but president trump is starting to turn us around but that's a big, big hill for him to climb. we still have tens of millions of americans out of work. more than 110,000 have now died from the coronavirus and thousands of thousands of people in american streets across the country are are protesting not just racial injustice but, the

president they believe that has not addressed the issue. >> peter baker, thank you for always addressing the issue. good to see you. a little girl asks a police officer, are you going the shoot snus it's an extraordinary moment going on around the world. the officer's answer, next. nt ge world. the officer's answer, next in an unprecedented crisis... a more than $10 billion cut to public education couldn't be worse for our schools and kids. laying off 57,000 educators, making class sizes bigger? c'mon. schools must reopen safely with resources for protective equipment, sanitizing classrooms,

and ensuring social distancing. tell lawmakers and governor newsom don't cut our students' future. pass a state budget that protects our public schools.

. new today innen, people protesting in frochbt the u.s. embassy and have made their way to parliament square. sarah, once again b, good to see you there across the pond. so many protesting racism there in the u.k. what are folks telling you? >> yeah, alex, it's not just london. these protests are taking place all across the u.k. today, if anything, there were more people than yesterday. hard to get an exact number, but many thousands. i'd like to introduce you to two of the protestors. both are students who told me they had a will the of work to

do, but felt like this was important enough they had to come out. tell us why you're here? >> i'm outrange raged, frustrated. i'm seeing myself in black people being killed over other day on video and yet people are getting away with it. i feel like there's an injustic. >> i want to give you a chance to talk about why you're here. >> i'm tired of black people being oppresse eed tired of a sibling around a police officer because they might just kill him. we've had enough. after how many years of slavery, they want to still oppress us. it's done. all of this oppression ends now. ends now. needs to be changed. >> that's something we've heard from so many demonstrators today. you feel something in the air that people are saying enough is enough. it stops now, things must change. the it's a message we're hearing here in london as well as the

united states. >> it's been a message loud and clear. thank you very much. from there now to texas and that viral video e showing a 5-year-old girl at a protest with her family asking a police officer if he was going to shoot them. that officer comforting the girl telling her he's there to protect her and she can protest all she wants, just don't break anything. mayor turner, welcome to you. glad you're here. what did you think when you saw that video for the first time? >> it was very moving. also lets you know that the concerns and the fear of people are. >> reporter: real. especially for even our youngest within our communities. it's very, very real and important for law enforcement and those in a position of power, to insure them they're not here to hurt them, but to assist, to protect their safety.

we want them to enjoy life, but it was very piercing. i've looked at it many, many times. >> i'll bet you have. that officer says i'm a dad and i want to get home to my daughter, too. and later apparently, the girl asked her father that night, really, i didn't know police officers had kids. it's kind of sweet, right, but it was a communication and it was beautiful. it was listening and it was trying to understand that the point of view of that child. that's how it should be. >> absolutely and you know what it says is that even for people in position of power, humility goes a long way. reminding people and reminding you of your family. people have husbands, wooif, children and i've said repeatedly. look, i want to police officers to show up, do their jobs, but go home safely.

at the same time, i want people in our community to go about their business, go to the park, to their place of work. or where f their going and i want them to get home safely and we all have to remind ourselves constantly that we're a part of this diverse humanity. every person should be respected. every community should have values. [ inaudible ] but we have to do it understanding that we are all connected and we all got families. >> but mayor turner, i think a point that need to be made about this change is that we are talking about a 5-year-old child whose concerned she might get shot by a police officer. what does that say about this time that we're in? >> what it says is that everybody is listening. everybody is looking. everyone is aware. from our youngest within our

communities to the oldest. and everyone in between. no one is outside of this discussion that's taking place right now. and so everything that we do, we have to bear in mind that there are the youngest, that are in the community, that they're taking notice and they're being directly impacted. the response to get it right. we have a huge responsibility to let out feelings that they don't have anything to fear. but i would tell you, i go back, when i would leave the house, be respectful to police. you know don't try to act up. if they do something wrong, you just get out of that situation and come back home and we'll deep with it later. i understand that. the sad part is that we're still dealing with it right now in this day and time in 2020.

so this is an unprecedented time in which people are saying let's get it right, okay? not just play lip service to it. listen and let's accomplish come transformational things so that it works for everybody. >> mayor turner, at the risk of having you drop out, in part of your efforts is that you're launching a task force to do what specifically? what are you goals with that? >> well what people are saying is that they want us to listen and they want us to make changes. they want the system to be better. they want good police and so in basically setting up the task force of police reforms, take a look at our practices and policies. take a look at the crisis intervention training. escalation training and make sure we're updating on what

we're doing. we don't do choke holds. that's been banned if r a long time. we don't do not raise. but it is important for us to listen to the people. to ask them to come forward with their ideas. we have an independent police oversight board. the question is, what changes we need to make to make it even more impactful. we have to do everything we can to make our system what people are looking for. good policing, accountability because we recognize we have to work together for the betterment of our community. >> i'm glad you heard our answer to all of it. the mayor of houston. thank you so much. up next, the threat of coronavirus to the protestors. how serious is that? coronavirus. how serious is that? cleaning power of liquid.

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a grim new milestone, millions gathering around the world to protest, dr. fauci has a warning. he is calling the demonstrations the perfect set up for covid-19 to spread. >> it's a delicate balance because the reasons for demonstrating are valid and yet the demonstration puts one at an additional risk so the only thing we can do is to keep warning people, be careful if you are going to go out, please make sure you wear a mask and

keep the mask on at all time. >> joining us now, dr. natalie a azar. we've not talked specifically as much about the coronavirus in the wake of the protests, however, dr. faushy makes a great point. it is still very much a threat. so i want to get from you the advice for anybody who wants to go out, what they must do. we've seen the pictures. there are thousands of people gathering. they're not socially distant. many, yes, are wearing masks, not all. are you worried we'll get a spike in cases two weeks from now as the potential period could be measured? i know the it's a lot to throw at you, but what do you think when you talk to protestors who want to go out and do this? >> jae, i know, it's a very valid question and a perfect storm with you know, warmer e weather and the protests, the

virus loves large gatthergather. we know that's how it's going to be transmitted between people. so what i've been telling people is this. that yes, the mask wearing is probably the most important thing that they can do right now. this other thing is to keep moving as opposed to standing in one spot for you know, ten or 15 minutes, having a conversation with someone, fortunately as people are moving, that's good because the air die lutes the air. hand sanitizer, it's important to be doing that and not touching the face. and that folks who are protesting should consider getting tested about three to seven days after they protest to give a little time. that's typically the time for the swab b to turn positive and also that people should consider to self-quarantine themselves after protesting for 14 days, especially if they're living or are in close contact with

individuals who are at greater vulnerability. >> here's the bottom line. memorial day protests two weeks ago. we saw them, not so much the protest, people were out about not social distancing and we have seen cases in certain places. do you think we'll see a sfiek in cases two weeks now? >> i think we will. i think that is the expectation. yes, we are seeing an increase in cases. a third of states still have cases on rise and varying degrees of economic reopening happening. those states that will see increases from protests or in general will depend on how the health care systems could handle the surge and where they are on the curve. but make no mistake, even though many states are seeing a decline in cases and that is a great thing, even though states are vulnerable to losing all of the gains that were made in the last couple of months from social distancing and could all be

awash if we suddenly let down our guard and think everything is okay. i know it is hard to resist the nice weather and to be outside and it is safer than being indoors but the risk does not reach zero unfortunately. >> i hope that everyone is listening as i am. thank you dr. natalie azar. turning people power into the streets no votes on election day, next. if your child doesn't seem themself at times, they may not be hydrated enough. wabba wabba! all new, plant powered creative roots gives kids the hydration they need, with the fruit flavors they love, and 1 gram of sugar. find new creative roots in the kids' juice aisle.

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through subaru loves to help. love, it's what makes subaru, subaru. do you have police rowe form questions. tweet them with #msnbc answers and our team will answer them at 3:00 eastern today. activists across the country hoping something positive emerges from the tragedy of george floyd by energizing voters in november. dejuana johnson is from the dnc and obama presidential campaigns, i'm awful glad to talk to you. let's get into it.

we saw what happened in 2016. the black voter turnout rate dropped for the first time in five presidential elections during the trump/clinton election. how does your organization han he is the energy that we're seeing out there today? >> well, thank you for asking that question. i think it is important to understand that what black voters are seeing right now is a question of value. they're questioning leadership and strategy. so we're telling people that protesting is a part of how we get liberated. voting is another part of how we get liberated. wee seeing that people put their bodies on line now for the cause of justice but they're having to put their bodies on line to vote. we saw this in milwaukee and pennsylvania. and i think that the record will show that black people in this moment and black voters in this moment will not put their bodies on line by police brutality but on the line for righteous leadership in november. and we're giving them the tools

to do that. >> how about woke vote, specifically how are they making sure voters get out there and feel safe as they take to the polls? >> safety is actually something unfortunately that we can't guarantee right now because of the conditions not only with coronavirus but some of the conditions that people face when they go to the polls, we're still seeing voter intimidation tactics so we're making sure they empowered and do they know what the laws and the rules are and who to call if there are issues at the polls and we're asking ahead of the november election for those running facilities and polling locations to give people the right to vote at the greatest measure. so if that is absentee ballot, open that up. if that is voting the same day as you register, open that up.

if that is allowing people to absentee with no excuse, open that up. we're seeing an unfortunately some states that are making it harder to vote right now in the middle of a pandemic and uprising. we need to make it easier to be given people more actions and we're asking our people to demand that when they go to the polls. >> saw president obama in action during his campaign. i imagine you think he has a role to play here. what is that for 2020? >> that is a great question. we saw him lead honorable and ask the key issues that we're seeing right now but the question is what the current president doing and what is his role in making sure that voting is safe and making sure that the resources that we need are there. i think that people want to see a value conversation in november. it is not about -- it is not even about republican versus

democrat. >> it is literally about justice versus not justice or in justice. it is whether or not people are values in this country and right now the rhetoric out of certain places, people aring up to that and against up that and saying that no november we need righteous leadership. we talk in our communities from a faith perspective what this righteous leadership looks like and there is a scripture in woke vote which is moveesh 29:2 when the wicked rule the people mourn. we're asking for our young people and our communities and leaders to step up and require and demand righteous leadership that will change the conditions of the police state, change the conditions of our education, changes the condition of food disparity and whether or not people could walk in their own neighborhoods and not be targeted. >> a little scripture on sunday

as well. didn't bargain for that but thank you for that. thank you so much. as protests spring up again today today, we'll take you back to the streets next. ake you back t the streets next into a smaller life? are your asthma treatments just not enough? then see what could open up for you with fasenra. it is not a steroid or inhaler. it is not a rescue medicine

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and until this fight is over, we...will...never...quit. because they never quit. good day from msnbc headquarters here in new york. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." as we have large protests in the wake of george floyd's killing, they're forming again on the east coast. protesters picking up positions in new york city and at lafayette park near the white house, washington, d.c. may see a repeat of yesterday when the largest crowd yet turned out for demonstrations there. and we showed you this huge protest at the u.s. embassy in london. crowds taking part in an anti-racism protest to show solidarity with floyd. look who showed up to support. madonna making an appearance in the crowd. and any new nbc news/wall street

journal poll more people are worried about the actions of police than protests. and a trump official claiming there is no systemic racism in american law enforcement. >> i do in the we have a system of law enforcement across the country. do i acknowledge there are some law enforcement officers that abuse their job. yes. and again, we need to hold those accountable. >> if we're going to solve some of america's toughest problems, we've got to be painfully honest about what those problems are. and we know that we have been fighting systemic racism in this country for 400 years. while i heard what the secretary said, we have a lot of work to do and systemic racism is always the ghost in the room. >> so break it all down for us for the day's development to our team of reporters. first today, new york mayor bill

de blasio will move nypd funding to new york's youth and social services. that is some of it, of course. not all of it. as we watch what organizers could see largest protest in the last two weeks. cori coffin is in manhattan for us. you're right there adjacent to time square but when you talked to the head of the new york chapter of black lives matter, they're not aiming to get to times square they want to go to mayor bee blazio's house. >> reporter: and we're having a tough time hearing because there are so many people out here. the signal is losing just a little bit. but i think you're talking about the location where we're at right now. things kicked off about an hour ago. we're at 42nd. and lets turn to why protests can't be in time square. you could see the black aids right here. blocked off between 47 and 48

and we're on 7th right now. so police are monitoring the perimeter and they have not been allowed in. times square is blocked off. there are a couple thousand in here. earlier we spoke to the chairman of black lives matter in new york and here is what he had to tell me today. >> because of black lives matter new york, our mayor has shut down times square because he doesn't want us inside of times square. with our agenda, we're promoting an agenda. common sense legislation. they talk about destruction of property and us being angry and put forth a plan, we have a plan and they wouldn't let us present it in times square. >> reporter: one of the main initiatives that blm and others have been calling for is defunding the police. i spoke earlier with blm greater new york president and asked her what do you say to people who

think that is too extreme and that is the not answer but better community policing and she said that every time there is a case of police brutality that is their tax dollars going toward that and they want to take their tax dollars out of the equation. we did hear from mayor de blasio announcing there will be shifting fundk from the nypd to other community initiatives like youth programs and social services. and earlier you heard the chairman tell me after they get done here in about an hour, they plan on marching to the governor's residence or mayor de blasio's residence and they do have plans to do that. so they'll be wrapping up here in about an hour. we'll keep you updated. >> thank you so much from times square. president trump will spend another day hearing thousands of voices blocks away from the white house as the protests justowd side of lafayette park that we've seen for weeks show no sign of slowing down. we'll check in with ali vitale from washington.

the weather may bring out a larger crowd than we saw yesterday, right. >> reporter: it very well may, alex. right now it is not an official protest. one is happening later at 3:00 but that doesn't mean there aren't still people out here in lafayette square park or black lives matter plaza as it was renamed, all races out here protesting the death of george floyd and in favor of the black lives matter movement. and really we've seen people out here with their kids, out here with their dogs. some of them holding coffee on the morning walk. so the vibe is very calm and peaceful. it matches what we saw yesterday and late into the evening last night which is people having sort of a block party vibe out here on the streets of washington, d.c. i was even talking to some parents who were out here with their young sons who were telling me that they're bringing their sons out here because they

need to see this movement and this moment in time and how important it is for the futures of their children. and, frankly, we've heard that from parents throughout this week as we've been covering the protests. of course, in the last few days we've seen the street that leads up to the white house become a mural that is owed to black lives matter. over the night they did add "de fund the police" and the d.c. mayor said that is not an official part of mural but that is part of the black lives matter movement now. what corey was just talking about, how activists are pointing to reallocating money with the law enforcement and police forces and instead funneling it back into black and brown communities to try to get at that root problem here of systemic racism and so as we've been out here in d.c., you could see just for several blocks we've got people out here marching, protesting and again this is not even the official part of day yes, alex. >> thank you for keeping an eye

on everything there near the white house. from there to minnesota where protests are calling on officials there to defund the minneapolis police department following the death of george floyd. shaq brewster is joining us once again from minneapolis. so what is going on behind you. earlier it was a lovely scene. you have a prayer going on with a church service. off to your right, flowers, singing, music. how about right now? >> reporter: you still could continue to see that powerful scene where people come out with flowers and their notes for george floyd that they leave at that vigil behind me and they're coming from all over the country, really. and just saw someone walking around with tears. it is amazing to see the power of his memory and legacy almost two weeks after his death. you still see people continue to flood here. we talked about the memorial service. they started here in minnesota on thursday, we saw a service in north carolina yesterday. and then monday and tuesday you'll see the services in

houston. a public viewing on monday and then a public memorial on tuesday. well we just learned that vice president biden will be at the service on monday so we could expect to see him there. it seems like there won't be a large media presence around him and keep it as low key as possible but vice president biden will be at that service on monday. here in minneapolis, and i want to show you the church service across the street from where george floyd died you see the people still having service, still praying. the preacher is giving the sermon right now. but you're seeing scenes of the continued protests, not only here in minneapolis but in st. paul. they were outside of the governor's mansion yesterday and people are going through the streets again today protesting and as you heard from cori and ali, they are asking to defund the police department and reallocated resources into the community. that is getting the pressure and putting pressure on the progressive leaders of the cities, including the mayor of minneapolis. he was asked if he supports

defunding the minneapolis police department. he said no. to a protest group when he spoke to them. but look at what happened right after he said no. >> go home jacob, go home. [ crowd chanting ] >> shame, shame, shame -- >> reporter: and you talk to so many people who are out still protesting and still mobilizing and you mentioned the fact that here there has been some movement in minneapolis. the charges of officers and ban on chokehold and the civil charge against the minneapolis police department. there is that duty, that negotiated agreement where the police officers have a duty to intervene and report any use of excessive force. what you continue to hear, those

are nice gestures and small steps but they believe there is a systemic issue in policing and they want the root causes, the cause that led to the situation and scenario that led to the officer chauvin with his knee in the neck of george floyd for that nine minutes, they want that root cause to be addressed and that is why you continue to see people out protesting, making sure they're voices are heard. >> we hear them loud and clear. thank you there in minneapolis. meantime, after days of largely peaceful protests in washington, d.c., the president announced today that he is ordered the national guard to start pulling out of the nation's capital. monica alba is at the white house for us. so this is quite the point of contention between the mayor of d.c. and the president, wasn't it? >> reporter: that is right. mayor bowser has been calling for days for federal law enforcement to retreat from the district given the days of peaceful protests and there hasn't been a curfew in place because the demonstrations have been so calm.

especially as we've seen this weekend. but the president has been trying to paint a different picture that doesn't align with reality. he was trying to say that things were out of control and problematic it was important to have the resources and the mayor was saying that wasn't the case any more and we did see the presence diminish starting yesterday. but this goes back to now a week where they have been trading a lot of insults back and forth, both the mayor and the president. mostly he on twitter. she has been having press conferences nearly every day calling the president out. and she did commission that new mural and rename the plaza black lives matter. two points that the president hasn't addressed despite it being out his front window if look at it that way. he hasn't taken questions on that. but take a listen to what d.c. mayor bowser an the acting dhs secretary chad wolf had to say about the presence of federal troops here in the district this morning. >> what americans saw was federal police forces tear

gasing peaceful americans and what he did, as you saw for the remaining days, was turn out more people and more people who were there for peaceful protest. >> we've had up to three, four, five, 600 folks there in d.c. and what we saw over the past week is a city out of control. and i'm happy to say over the last several days we've seen that violence decrease. >> reporter: agreement there that the violence has absolutely gone away. there hasn't been any clashes or even arrests in the last couple of days. and all of this comes as we have now our first new polling and insight into what americans are thinking after the death of george floyd. we have polling that presented a question that has never been ask the before. in terms of the pandemic, the economy and now the unrest, do you believe that things are out of control in the united states and 80% of those surveyed said they did feel that things are out of control versus 15% who feel it is under control.

and if you look at a party break down, 92% of democrats are the ones who say they feel things are out of control versus 78% for independents and 66% for republicans. and when it comes to the president's job performance, his handling of all of the multiple kriesis has remained uncharged at 45% approval versus 53% disapproval but 47% strongly disapproving as you see his handling of the items being criticized as we're still dealing with the pandemic that has killed 110,000 americans, alex. >> all of the numbers telling quite a story. thank you so much from the white house. monica alba. getting away with violence. why it is so hard to prove police criminality even when there is solid evidence. i am robert strickler.

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more than a thousand wayne, new jersey, residents unite the this weekend, the demonstration one of several playing out today. protest leaders there asked police officers who have been a positive force in the community to help their cause and this is one young man who agree up in that predominantly white town and here is what he had to say. >> speak up about racism. don't be a frad to call people out. good cops that have helped me in good situations, you call out your officers. you call them out. [ applause ] >> joining me now, benjamin crump, civil rights attorney representing the families of george floyd, breonna taylor and ahmaud arbery, you're the busiest guy in the country so thank you for taking time to speak with us. and you're hearing the calls across the country to defund the police.

you may have heard protesters shoutding away the mayor of minneapolis. what is you're reaction on this issue and it is fair to shout away the minneapolis mayor? >> well, i think that people for so long, alex, have been unheard that this tragic killing of george floyd has given them an opportunity to finally be heard. hopefully that we together could come up with solutions to these problems that have plagued the people who are protesting all across america to finally prevent the senseless killing, whether it is george floyd, breyona taylor, ahmaud arbery, pamela turner, the list goes on and on and on. right now this is an opportunity for us to try to prevent the needless unjustifiable killings of other black people by the police.

>> i know that former officer derek chauvin will appear in court for the first time tomorrow. you well know he is charged with upgraded to -- to second-degree murder. are you satisfied with the charge upgrade for him and the charges of aiding and abetting for the other three officers. >> well, george floyd's family has always maintained that they wanted them charged to the full extent of the law for the murder and the torture of george floyd. and so we believe that as attorney general keith ellison said, if during the investigation they find evidence that they could upgrade the charges to first-degree murder, that they would do so. so the family is expecting and demanding that the most that could be done to these officers is done in the name of justice. because all they want is equal justice like so many people who are marching, alex. so many people who are

protesting. not just in america but around the world. they're saying, we're protesting against racism. we're protesting against color-ism. we're protesting against xenophobia. we want equality as human beings. >> look, benjamin, when you mentioned the fact would like to get upgraded to first degree murder charges, the fact is that might be the most difficult to prove in court and to potentially get derek chauvin to serve time in prison. what are your thoughts on that. are you counseling the family that maybe second-degree murder charges are the better likely of all that he could potentially face that would get him a conviction. >> well, no, i'm being very honest with the clients. the fact that when black people are charged with crimes, they always charge us to the max and put the lesser included that if the jury doesn't want to take the max they could have a lesser

clued. so he could be charged with first-degree and have the lesser included charges of second-degree, let's include a charge of third-degree and lesser charge of including manslaughter. but what we want is him to get the maximum of what he could get in the court of law, all three of the officers who aided and abetted, they want the max for them too because this was torture, alex. when you watch that video, this is one of the most horrific deaths ever. >> yeah. amen to that. i have to tell you, it is hard to watch and i have to with work but some times i can't look at this any longer. but i want to ask you about the family of george floyd because yesterday we saw his memorial service and this week the final services take place on tuesday. as they watch all of this movement unfold, not only across this nation but around the world, we heard the story about his young daughter saying my daddy is changing the world. what are their feelings about all that they've seen?

>> well, they are heartened. i know phil onise will testify before the u.s. congress on wednesday. they're going to do everything in their power to thank people for the support but encourage people and not just get justice for george but let's try to see if we could make true systematic change where we could prevent anybody else as children from losing their parents or anybody else from losing brothers, sisters, son or daughter because far too often we saw when it is people of color, police shoot first and ask questions later and that is why you see, alex, every day there are people in every city, in every state saying enough is enough. we're just tired of. >> yeah.

you mentioned, george floyd's brother, phillonis, giving everything happening with covid but what does he want to accomplish, benjamin? what does he want to say? >> alex, not only does he want to speak for his brother's humanity and to make sure his brother gets justice. he wants to use this opportunity to see if we could get transformative gestures for all people who feel like they've been marginalized and disenfranchised and dehumanized and we want to prove that talks about the importance of having police community, police and decalation and also the importance of police body camera videos because if they don't have body camera videos, it should literally be a charge

immediately with obstruction of justice number one and charge them with a felony just on the body camera being turned off but alone and nothing else. but what happens far too often, with black people are brutalized or killed by police, and if there is not video, everybody takes the police officers' word, from all of this ration of video evidence of how they've been harassing us, we have to speak to that because no more could we accept the police word as gospel when they kill a black or brown person. >> thank you for making time for us. it is good to see you. we have new reaction from attorney general bill barr after the president threatened to deploy active duty soldiers to police u.s. streets earlier this week. >> do you think the president has the authority to unilateral send in active duty troops if the governor opposed it.

>> absolutely. under the anti-in surection act the president could use regular troops to suppress rioting. it is a confederate that suppressed an insurrection so the federal government doesn't listen to governors in most circumstances. >> joining me now melissa murray, law professor and former clerk to justice sotomayor. given the history of bill barr a supporter of presidential powers but what do you think about what he said. >> if i were grading that constitutional law exam i would give it a "c", it is true that the president could send in federal troops into states to quell domestic unrest but the president has to first issue an order for the states to have the protesters disperse which hasn't been done here. so it is worth noting that the

insurrection act is meant to be a departure from the ordinary authority of governors to deploy their own troops in order to quell domestic unrest through their own civil enforcement rather than resorting to the federal government. so attorney general barr has gotten some of it right but missed the essential aspects that this is intended to be quite extraordinary relief and typically doesn't happen if governors do not want that federal intervention. >> look, barr also said in the interview that active duty troops should only be deployed in the u.s. as a last resort. what do you think the threshold is that needs to be crossed for that to happen? >> typically in the past, for example, president bush, second president bush wanted to deploy federal troops to louisiana in the wake of hurricane katrina but the governor of louisiana did not want that intervention and the president thought better of it and did not invoke the insurrection act to send troops

there. so part of the threshold of whether this is the extraordinary circumstances in which federal invention is needed is whether the states believe they can or cannot handle the unrest within their borders. >> so this week, we have seen instances of violence from police toward otherwise peaceful protesters and there is a lot of talk, melissa, about accountability for the officers involved in the floyd case. but will there be accountability of the other incidents that we've seen and put them on television and seen them to a disturbing degree. >> there is a lot of impediments to holding police officers accountable for violence against civilians. one is simply the fact that in some cases police misconduct is not actually illegal. so if a civilian is brandishing a weapon or displaying a weapon, the police officers' violence is within the bounds of the law. another impediment to accountability is the very close relationship that prosecutors may have with police officers.

prosecutors use and rely on police officers for building their cases. whether using them as witnesses or simply using them to inform and decide what cases to bring charges against. so there is a very close relationship and i think part of that is an impediment to bringing officers to justice but the most significant structural impediment to holding the police accountable is the doctrine of qualified immunity and it is a doctrine in federal law that shields government officials being sued for their discretionary actions. so long as though actions are undertaken within their official capacity and are not clearly against established law or constitutional rights. so they're in a bind when they bring these cases against officers because if the conduct has not been established to a clearly violated constitutional rights or clearly established law in the past, it is unlikely to go forward and the charges will like by be dismissed so qualified immunity is the biggest impediment of all. that is not to say that legal accountability is the only way

that we have of holding the police accountable. there are a lot of other nonlegal means that we could think about and those are being discussed right now as well. so many jurisdictions are thinking about completely divesting themselves from participation of the police force this their city. a number of universities have decided to stop using the police force of their cities in which contain police services to private services within the campus themselves and that is one way to hold the police accountable by yanking those licenses and keeping those dollars outside of the police. >> i was going to say yanking the footage as well. melissa murray, thank you so much. it was a powerful message of enough from a man of the law and it came during yesterday's memorial for george floyd. we're going to talk to him next. . maybe we'll see things we've been missing. maybe it'll help us see just how connected we all are.

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let's go now to west california where there is outrage from some community leaders over the use by police

at protests. an activist is heartbroken after being seriously injured with a rubber bullet one demonstration. that prompting the san jose mayor to propose a ban on the use of rubber bullets and a public evaluation of police tactics. joining me now is the mayor of san jose, sam la cardo. mayor, i'm glad to talk to you about this. this is a heart-wrenching incident that happened to this man who worked on behalf of the community and helping to make end roads between the two but there have been more incidences at protests in your city or overall have they been more peaceful? >> well, certainly we've had our challenges here. i'm specifically concerned about rubber bullets because we've had several people injured by them. but like every city we have officers that are being hit by rocks and bottles and keep

protests and keep them safe. and for the most part i think officers are showing extraordinary restraint. i am concerned about rubber bullets because they are difficult to aim and there is a lot of bouncing off of walls an the ground and a lot of people could get hurt. >> in this one particular incidence of which i've spoken, it was mr. sand olin and i want to read what he said. he stepped into the line of fire and a couple of cops said, move. i said with my hands up, i can't do that. please don't do this as they were advancing on your citizens there in san jose. he said that another cop came up behind them, pointed directly at him and said move and when he ignored it and repeatedly said i can't do that, he instead shot him even though he had the sign in front of his face shot him in the groin. he's since needed surgery and it may have affected his life in a way that will never change,

let's put it that way. how do you feel about that? what are you doing to address that? >> well, it is awful. it's wrong. and we need to fully investigate it. we need to ensure that there is independent review of that investigation through our independent police and there need to be consequences. and any incident in which an officer unlawfully uses for or excessive force needs to be met with clear consequences. but to be clear, a long time ago in this country in san jose and in cities throughout the country, we stopped having elected officials and politicians meddling in personnel decisions. and so i'm not authorized to give any discipline and i also cannot get involved in the disciplinary process for all of the same reasons why we don't want politicians deciding who gets hired and fired. so we're going to make sure that the police department is held accountable for this and we're going to ensure that we're looking very carefully at the

use of force because i think that rubber bullets pose a very serious risk to the public. >> indeed. there have been calls for police departments to be defunded and you're calling for police reform. talk about what you hope to have happen there in san jose? >> well, we appreciate certainly that the calls for change and reform are righteous, the outrage is righteous. but talking about defunding the police, we need to recognize that that is not likely to help the communities that have been victimized by systemic racism in this country. it is communities of color that are disproportionately subjected to violence crime in the country as a result of decades of economic apartheid and in terms of where the crime seems to be happening in neighborhoods and we know that white rich communities are going to have options. they're going to hire private

patrols. the suburban malls with the eye stores will have their own security. the small immigrant-led businesses will have to grapple with robberies and they need police and so we have to have be mindful about who we're helping or hurting when we decide we're going to cut police. and as mayor of a city that is one of the most diverse in the country, it is in the spanish speaking neighborhoods where i hear most that mothers and fathers want more police patrol to deal with gangs and with gunshots. so we've got to be responsive to the needs on the ground. >> san jose mayor sam la cardo, thank you so much for your time during this pretty troubling times. appreciate that. tomorrow there is another memorial slated for george floyd after moving moments as mourners paid respected to floyd and his family in north carolina. here is part of the message from the hope county sheriff. >> i found out, i realized that if i deny all of the wrong that

law enforcement is doing today, i am denying the color of my skin. [ applause ] and i won't do that. i am a black man, first. then law enforcement. >> and sheriff hubert peterkin is joining us now live. sheriff, i'm glad to talk to you about this. i would love to give you an opportunity to expand on what we just played there. you're saying that you are a black man before a police officer. talk about that. >> thank you so much for having me. the one thing that i think i want to say about this is as a black man, being a law enforcement officer, and our community who is very, very afraid of law enforcement, they don't trust, they're probably the one community that distrust law enforcement the most more than any community and then i

will say the community would be next. whenever my community see me or other law enforcement officers, they don't look at us the same as they do other officers because they feel like we are not -- or that we're ignoring the situation. they don't trust us when they see us in a uniform, because we're black because they feel like we're a sell-out. and so when they question again, as i said, whether we even care about the problems that we're seeing with the racial injustice throughout the communities that we're seeing throughout the nation. >> you have said and you reiterated it that throughout the black community there is a lack of trust in police officers, even the black members of police force. so how should policing be reformed in terms of representation because does it include diversity in hiring decisions matter? does is the police force have to

reflect the community that they are policing? >> yes. let's talk about diversity. i know for a fact as a sheriff and even i'll speak for police departments, diversity is hard. we try to recruit as many minorities that we can. my office has -- it represents the community, i have black, white, latino, native american. but it is not -- most of the officers are white. i'll be honest with you. but i'm going to be -- everything starts from the top with this. you have to let your agency know that you first of all as a leader of the organization do not tolerate this type of behavior. and then you got to be able to clean the mess up when you see it. i'll be honest, when you talk about hiring predators and things -- sheriffs are elected. police chiefs are hired by board and they're governed by the city council. you have a mayor and so forth. city manager. but i think when they hired that

chief, if they're involved with the -- the discipline and not hiring practices, you take that away from the chief of police and if you handcuff that chief of police and don't allow him to manage and hold his people accountable, i think that is a mistake. i hear it over and over again where they have problems, they try to fire some of the problems and then they're cut off at the legs because there is a hierarchy telling them that they can't do it. so we have to be careful when we do that to a police chief. i think everything starts at the top. if i was the city manager or a city councilman, i would hire the most effective police chief i can, hold him accountable for everything that goes on in that police department. i think it is unfair when something happens real bad as we say now and it becomes such a public situation, the chief gets tired under all of the scrutiny

but he never really had the opportunity to run that p-- the police department that way it needs to be. if that police chief or sheriff is keeping his managers abreast and keeping them abreast and holding those people accountable and we could talk to them. i don't micromanage my office but i'm very much in tune with what is going on here. so that is one of the things that i will say about the hiring practices and also the holding people accountable. >> all points well made sheriff hubert peterkin thank you for joining me. and we'll be right back after a short break right here on msnbc. here on msnbc

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like prescriptions are on their way. every day, all across america, we deliver for you. and we always will. apps except work.rywhere... why is that? is it because people love filling out forms? maybe they like checking with their supervisor to see how much vacation time they have. or sending corporate their expense reports. i'll let you in on a little secret. they don't. by empowering employees to manage their own tasks, paycom frees you to focus on the business of business. to learn more, visit paycom.com it is approaching noon at the spot that you're looking at right there. that is denver, colorado. we've been showing these protests, peaceful, for the better part of the area with the live aerial shots. there is a lot of people in

denver walking through the downtown areas and it is a large crowd and it is racially diverse and there are many, many people wearing their masks. but again keeping an if eye on denver and a number of other protests underway peacefully for the most part in this country on this sunday. joining me now is maryland state attorney for the state of baltimore marilyn mosby. i know you're the prosecutor that brought the charges against the officers involved in the death of freddie gray back in 2015. when you saw the killing of george floyd, what was your reaction to that? >> i think like everyone american i was sickened to see yet another black man that was killed at the hands of the police. i think that what it was for me, it was somewhat deja vu because in 2015 when a young, innocent 25-year-old black man by the name of freddie gray jr. made contact with police in a high crime neighborhood and he was placed into a metal wagon and

his spine was partially severed in the back of the wagon and his pleas for medical attention were ignored. i followed the facts with the law and i was doing what a lot of prosecutors in this country didn't have the courage to do which is to have one standard of justice for all with the exception of stephanie morales in sports mouth, virginia, at that time, accountability wasn't being had and that is what we're seeing now with these protests. the veil ofig nance has been lifted with americans when it comes to the engagement and the brutality of engagement of black people and the police. and just like the television were the catalyst that spawned a movement, the iphones have spawned a movement in that in the civil rights movement, there were images of children and fire hoses and dogs that were being placed upon them. and what we're seeing time and time again are these images of

black men being murdered at the hands of police. >> marilyn, i know that six officers charged in the death of freddie gray, none of them got convicted. why is it so difficult to convict officers in cases like this and do you think given the fact that there is video of george floyd's death that those four officers will be found guilty at least to some degree of the charges they're facing? >> well, yes. i think that the video is compelling. it actually depicts the murder. and yes, this is compelling evidence that any prosecutor could dream of and i think that is going to be -- if i had that and it is the smoking gun in any sort of case, but there are systemic reforms that have to take place in order to truly hold police officers accountable. first and foremost, when it comes to the court, there should be independent investigations. i know in my case unfortunately the police department were work against us the entire time. not executing search and seizure

warrants, not asking the most pertinent questions of the officers. no profession should be responsible for investigating its own. and so that is important. you have a culture of the blue wall of silence. you have to change that culture, right. and i could say that in the accountable, although we weren't held responsible, every one is being held for the actions of a few. and a week after i charged those officers the department of justice came in and exposed discriminatory police practices and that exposure led to reform. we now have a federally enforceable consent decree and that is still on record and we have use of force and deescalation policies that emphasize the sanctity of life and we have the affirmative responsibility for officers to intervene when fellow officers cross line. those are tangible reforms but there are still systems even outside of the courtroom that do

not allow police officers to be held accountable and that is what has to change. >> is this something that doj consent decree with the city of baltimore, should that be implemented nationwide. do you think it could be? >> what has happened is the trump administration has taken away that responsibility. and under obama's administration, that's in essence what the department of justice was going in and doing. we had 163-page report that described a pattern of and practice of discriminatory police enforcement in the city of baltimore, yet the trump administration has come in and has made sure that that doesn't take place anymore. that has to change. the other systems that need to change, and i have to be very clear about this, is the elimination of these employment contracts. they tie the police department's hands. the sheriff was just talking about that. where you have problematic officers that you can't do anything with. the law enforcement bill of rights. this particular officer in minneapolis had 18 internal

affairs complaints. it's foreseeable he's a problematic officer. you have to set up systems of civilian participation majorities and these trial reviews. the officers in the freddie gray case, five of them were charged administratively. two pled guilty and the other two, the charges -- the other three, the charges were dismissed. that was because it was being tried in front of their peers. there are systems that have to change. and that's in essence if they don't, then we'll continue to have this cycle of violence and lack of police accountability. >> i'm glad we have given you the platform to speak all that. marilyn mosby, thank you so much. >> my next guest explains why peaceful protest is the key to changing america. you're going to hear from him next. how about no

no uh uh, no way come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card. as a guy who ran police departments, i would have exhausted police officers saying why are we using police to deal with the fragility or

vulnerability of our society? there's so much money going into our police departments. we are overpoliced as a society. and we are investing in police, which is not sauving problems but making them worse. >> new jersey senator cory booker there, weighing in on the idea of diverting funds out of police departments and into at-risk communities as one way to change the relationship between police and the public. joining me now, omar wasso, assistant professor at princeton university's department of politics. i know you say history shows peaceful protest are enormously effective at bringing about change. what about a peaceful police approach? isn't it a two-way street? >> i think that's a really important question, and i think it's helpful to begin a discussion about protesting with sort of why are people protesting, and there's this anger and mourning and grief at an incident like the police killing of george floyd. and for some people, that anger

kind of justifies that sort of what you might caught an eye for an eye morality, that we want to reciprocate the state violence gechs us. when i look at the protests of 1960 and 1972, i found that nonviolent protests, particularly those that were met with state violence, where protesters make themselves the targets of state violence, those were very -- they created very powerful images that helped change public understanding. one of your earlier guests talked about lifting the veil of ignorance. if one can capture those images of a brutal police force as in birmingham, alabama, shooting fire hoses on nonviolent protesters, that's a very powerful sort of morality play that gets broadcast nationally. i think you're right, thinking about the role of police violence and how do we reduce that is at the heart of this. in this current moment, though, what we're seeing that's quite interesting is almost surprising

replay of some of that earlier 1960s footage where because of cell phones, we're seeing all kinds of incidents and encounters where there appear to be -- there are these allegations of excess force by police against peaceful protesters. and i think that's really changing the conversation nationally. >> yeah. i know, omar, you saw the latest nbc news/"wall street journal" poll showing more people are troubled by the floyd killing than they are about the protests and their aftermath. when you see that kind of number, does it indicate a sea change to you? i mean, you bring up the '60s. as you compare it to the unrest of that decade. >> i think it is a very different moment. and the later part of the 1960s, there were hundreds of protests that escalated to protester initiated violence. in that period, what we saw was public opinion shift to being much more concerned about crime and riots and away from civil rights. in the first weekend where there was a lot of people ransacking

stores and vandalizing starbucks, those kinds of things, if those become the kind of dominant images that people associate with this protest movement, then it might potentially move the public towards a taste for greater repression rather than greater reform of police forces. but what we are seen is that i think two really important things have happened in the last week. one is overwhelmingly, the protests have expressed a deep anger about the kind of systemic racism in policing, but they have done it peacefully so the kind of the media images have not been about protest unrest but have really been about a widespread kind of consensus among -- across the country that something is deeply wrong, and we see that reflected in the public opinion. the other key thing again is just these all of these video clips. that incident in buffalo where a 75-year-old man is pushed forceally, knocked down, head bleeding. those kinds of images i think are so shocking that they made

it hark to sort of say, what side are you on? i'm definitely not on the side of pushing old people over. >> right. how about the wording of all of this, omar? we have seen the president, white house officials repeatedly use the word riots as opposed to protests. how significant is that in the bigger picture? >> what we saw in the 1960s was a kind of racial divide in how people defined these. so in simple terms, whites overwhelmingly preferred the term riot. for african-americans, terms like uprising or rebellion were the preferred terms. in the same way there are contests over things like prolife or pro choice, the language we use is in some ways highly political. but i think the thing that's important that's missed in the word riot is the degree to which these are deeply political events. people are not just out there engaging in vandalism for vandalism's sake. this is, you know,reconcile, bu attacking a police car or

attacking a police station is a kind of act of violence against the group that you feel like has enacted violence towards your community. so again, that's kind of an eye for an eye model of justice, and that may not -- my research finds that over the long haul, you get a kind of violence begets violence, and it maybe muddies the water of the kind of core moral question, which is the police violence against george floyd. but you can understand why people might be that angry. >> absolutely. omar, thank you so much. that's going to do it for this week of weekends with alex witt. i'll see you next saturday beginning at 7:00 eastern. my colleague alicia menendez takes over talking about the youth movement happening inside the nationwide protests and she'll introduce you to the teenagers leading the way in nashville next. miles to the job site. the campsite. and anything else we set our sights on.

miles that take us back to the places we want to go. and to the people who count on us. so, let's roll up our sleeves. because we've got miles to make up. we hope you find these digital solutions helpful to bank from almost anywhere. deposit a check with your phone or tablet. check balances, pay bills, and more. send money to people you know and trust with zelle. explore all you can do with our digital tools from almost anywhere. pnc bank.