this sunday, turning point. ♪ we shall overcome this su. ♪ we shall overcome >> nationwide protests. >> sparked by the police killing of george floyd. >> nothing has changed. what are we supposed to do? nothing has changed. >> inspire a national recognition of inequality and police brutality against african-americans. >> i won't be satisfied until i can wake up and have kids and have them not fear their lives just for being black. >> it's time for us to stand up in george's name and say get your knee off our necks. >> why this time feels different. my guest this morning senator cory booker of new jersey.

black lives matter co-founder alicia garza, and the founding director of the african-american museum lonnie bunch. plus, military pushback. after protests and violence, president trump urges domination of the streets. >> i am your president of law and order, and an ally of all peaceful protesters. >> and peaceful protesters near the white house are rowded with flash grenades and chemical agents to clear the way for a photo opportunity prompting criticism from military commanders and his own defense secretary. >> the option to use active duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort. >> i'll talk to the former nato supreme allied commander admiral james stavridis. plus, "the wall street journal." joining me are washington post

columnist eugene, and nbc correspondent kristen welker, and senior editor of "the dispatch," david french. welcome to sunday. "it's meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history. this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. we have reached at least one inflexion point in america, perhaps two. the killing of george floyd has set up nearly two weeks of mostly peaceful protests in scores of cities across the country and around the world, most of them yesterday. awakening white america to the police brutality and a coalition to say "enough." at the same time the clearing of protesters near the white house to make way for a presidential photo opportunity had succeeded in uniting current and former military leaders to denounce the use of force against peaceful assembly and to say "enough." from the brutal police killing to the marches, to the 110,000 americans dead from the coronavirus, to the tens of millions now unemployed, there

is a growing sense that things are spinning beyond our grasp in this country. this is the scene here in washington where the white house has become a fortress, behind new fencing and concrete barriers. in fact, in our latest nbc news/wall street journal poll nearly 40% of all registered voters tell us that the country is out of control. just 15% believe things are currently under control. still, president trump's approval rating stands pretty much where it's been for the last two years. 45% approve, 5% disapprove. and what does this all mean for november? it remains a very stable election. joe biden's lead over president trump is a seven-point 49-42, and it's exactly where it stood two months ago and both candidates are challenged when facing a moment where a vocal public is demanding change and declaring that black lives matter. >> it may not be in my lifetime,

but it may be in these young people's lifetime that racism and injustice will be wiped out. >> for nearly two weeks, thousands of protesters across the country and around the world have captured a shift in public attitudes on race and policing. >> our ancestors built this ground that we are standing on and we feel like we deserve to be here. >> there is a change and mind set that's taking place, a greater recognition that we can do better. >> in our poll, majorities of african-americans, hispanics, and whites all say they're more concerned about the actions of the police in the george floyd killing than about some protests which have turned violent. floyd remembered on saturday at a memorial service in north carolina where he was born. >> and breonna taylor at a vigil in louisville, kentucky. use-of-force policies are being re-examined across the country with new moments of violence caught on camera this week. in buffalo, new york, a 75-year-old man pushed back by police on thursday, his head

hitting the ground. in new york city, a police officer caught on camera pushing a woman to the ground. another pulling down a man's mask and pepper spraying him in the face. in philadelphia, a police staff inspector facing aggravated assault charges after hitting a temple university student with a baton during a confrontation. at the same time in other cases, protesters have attacked police are rocks and bottles. the president has embraced the idea of military units in the streets of the capitol. you have to dominate the streets. you can't let what's happening happen. it's called dominate the streets. >> we are out here peacefully protesting, but they're armed like they're going to war. >> mr. trump is hoping to run as a law and order candidate again. >> i am your president of law and order. >> and is lamenting the chaos he presides over. on monday the government used physical force, dispersing peaceful protesters with chemical agents and flash grenades clearing the way for the president's photo-op in front of st. john's episcopal

church, prompting criticism from his former defense secretary james mattis. donald trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the american people, does not even pretend to try. instead, he tries to divide us. >> general mattis' letter was stunning and powerful. >> i respect general mattis. he has every right to express his opinion. that's his opinion. >> and these comments from former white house chief of staff john kelly. >> i think we should look at people that are running for office and put them through the filter. what is their character like? what is their -- what are their ethics, if they're elected to represent just their constitu t constituents, not just the base. >> joining me is senator cory booker, welcome back to "meet the price."

you've called this a moral moment for this country and they're spurring more than just a moment. is it more than a moment or will it actually lead to changes in our policies. >> well, they're the same. in fact, when i look at everything from the suffrage movement to the labor movement in this country, it's always been the people in the streets, often young people, who have demanded and forced a change in consciousness that made policy changes possible. i've been working all week with kamala harris and allies in the house to get real policies proposed, and we'll be releasing a bill tomorrow for things that should have been done in this country a long time ago, banning police practices, creating deeper accountability, so i'm grateful to see these non-violent protests outpouring in the street because they're leading and creating the pressure and creating a possibility that our policies can reflect the spirit of this country, that we can be in the law a more beloved nation. >> you know, you have a unique

set of experiences. you've been a mayor, you're a federal officerholder in the senate. where should most of this change be enacted? on the local level or the federal level? >> it's got to be enacted on every level. we are a society where we are culpable and distinct from any other on planet earth. one outside of every three women on the planet earth that are incarcerated are here in america. we've taken so much of our treasure between the time i was in law school to the time i was mayor, we were building a new prisoner jail every ten days and explicitly and complicitly we all have made a decision that we will treat mental illness with prison, jail and police. addiction with prison, jail, and police.

poverty, with prison, jail, and police. and overwhelmingly, african-americans with prison, jail, and police. we now in america have more african-american men under criminal supervision than all of the slaves, men that were slaves in 1850. this is astonishing. this is unacceptable. we need to be more courageous in our compassion for one another, more ambitious in our imagination that we can create a society that's not so overpoliced or where police -- we don't tolerate certain tactics that have had a generation in fear. you said at the beginning of this that 80-plus percent of americans think this is out of control. for black people in this country we have felt it is out of control in the way it polices our communities and individuals for a very long time and this awakening is so important to create real, substantive change and not just lip service from politicians. >> tell us -- tell me how your thinking has changed being a mayor at one point, you didn't

want the federal government -- you've fought some of the oversight over the new york police department at the time and you've embraced it since. what have you learned over time about this issue? >> well, it shows the insidiousness of institutional racism. we are a majority black city in newark. we had a majority black city council, black mayor, black police chief, and we knew we inherited a department with decades of challenges, and we went to reform the police department, but we didn't have the data, we didn't have the transparency. and it took the federal government and their accountability and their systems and data analysis to show that we were not moving as fast as we should and so we took on a very ambitious plan that stood everything from changing our court system with veterans courts and youth courts to pulling in experts from john j. college to say you don't have to arrest people to create safer neighborhoods, there are other ways to go, and i partnered with the aclu before i left to set a

national standard data collection practices. so i learned the hard way that this is not a system that is always explicitly done by overt racism. this is a system that's really baked, that we all have to take responsibility for and get practices that you're going to see in the bill we're going to release that just give greater transparency and greater accountability for those doing the policing. >> i want to ask you about defunding the police. last night in washington on 16th street right next to the black lives matter letters, the phrase "defund the police" was painted down there. and that is -- there is a lot of passion around that issue and when you hear the phrase may mean different things to different people, but when you hear that, what's your reaction? >> i understand clearly the sentiment and the substance

behind the slogan, and if people don't dismiss it, they don't get deeper into the substance. as i said earlier, it is not the mark of a beloved community to prey upon the honorable in your society. we are using police and as a guy who ran police departments i would have exhausted police officers saying why are we using police to deal with the fragility of the police department. i remember being surprised in seattle with a housing group called plymouth housing where they showed me a data analysis when they looked at what was more expensive for society, providing supportive housing for americans with mental illness that were homeless or leaving them on the streets, and they were able to find they were able to save seattle millions of dollars by giving people supportive housing because homeless people left on the streets with mental illnesses end up in hospital emergency rooms and jails. and so this is the outrage that

i think people on the streets are feeling and that i share is that we are overpoliced as a society, they with are investing in police, which is not solving problems, but making them worse, when we should be in a more compassionate country, in a more loving country, and i know love is at the core of our ideals, but it needs to be made manifest in our policies. we would actually spend less money, we would elevate human dignity and human potential, and we would set a standard on planet earth for how we treat those who are vulnerable as opposed to what we're seeing right now. >> senator, when you were running for president, you were quite critical of former vice president joe biden and you questioned whether he had the credibility given his record on some of these issues to be a reformer on this. where are you now? >> i fully put my faith in joe biden to be the person who can preside over this transformative change, and i'm going to tell you right now the heroes for me as i look at great presidents past, the time of lbj,

for instagram example, extraordinary, capable leaders like joe biden, but the real heros in that generation were the people who were sick and tired of being sick and tired, and if there are protesters listening to the show, i want to say, and i want to say in all sinceri sincerity, stay on the streets with non-violent protests and stay with the change. joe biden can do that. donald trump can't center himself in this. this is such a bigger moment than him. this is not a referendum on one person and one office.

this is a referendum on who we are as americans and who we are going to be to each other. this is a moral moment. will we become a more loving and compassionate society, not with our rhetoric, but with our laws and our rules and how to treat the most vulnerable and so this is the moment that joe biden can be the president for, but the responsibility is not on any individual. it's on all of us. >> senator booker, democrat from new jersey, i have to leave it there. i really appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective with us. thank you. >> thank you. president trump's threats to use the military to break up protests and the actual use of force to clear protesters near the white house has led to a torrent of criticism, from former military leaders including former allied commander, and he joins me now. admiral, welcome to "meet the press." why did you feel so compelled to speak out, and why do your fell low four-stars, if you will, felt the need to speak out this week? >> at the end of the day, chuck, everybody in the military swears an oath every time they're promoted in rank. i did it when i was at the midshipman academy and it is to defend and support the constitution of the united

states against all enemies, foreign and domestic. this is a moment when i think many of us watched the use of active-duty military to clear peaceful protesters out of lafayette square, and it rang echoes of what the founders feared more than anything, which was the use of armed active-duty citizens, and they built safeguards and including the first amendment. the spectrum that runs from very reticent jim mattis, john kelly who were part of this administration to people like me kind of in the center, to people like general john allen and bill mccraven who were quite critical that jumped and felt that shock to clear peaceful protesters. wrong answer. >> i am curious. it struck me today, being nato supreme allied commander, you

different live new state. you lived overseas. being an american diplomat overseas, say, in hungary, say in china, say in brazil, you get where i'm going here. are you concerned about our loss of international moral authority? >> i am, chuck, and it often -- before i was nato commander i spent four years, four stars in charge of all military south of the united states. it is called u.s. southern command. i spent a lot of time with the governments and militaries of latin american and caribbean who, let's face it, have a long history of dictatorships and oppression. they've come a long way since the '60s and '70s, but i've spent a lot of time talking to those leaders making sure that they continued on that path. i never thought i would be criticizing my own government in that regard. it's a shocking turn. and to your point, yes, it reduces our moral influence and our leadership role in the world. we ought to worry about that deeply. >> if you're secretary esper or

general milley, who have clearly tried to draw a line of distance now in what happened last monday night, at the end of the day, though, they have to follow a commander in chief's order, so if he does want to invoke the insurrection act, what would you advise secretary esper and secretary of state milley to do? >> i think two slightly different cases, chuck. of course, secretary esper, although he's a west point graduate himself and was on active duty in the military at one time, he's a political appointee. he's kind of signed up for this to a certain degree. but i was pleased to see him push back on the president during the course of the week, and he would not recommend the insurrection act. general milley, very different situation. as an active-duty officer, he's really got two choices here. one is to follow the orders and the other is to reach up on to

his shoulder and grab those four stars and say, sir, i cannot execute that order. i believe it violates my conscience, my view. i gave you my best military advice. you rejected it and that's a hard place for any active-duty military officer to go, and i hope general milley doesn't have to hit that point. >> are you concerned about morale, at the pentagon, morale and the rank and file? >> i am. >> here we get into simply the numbers involved here and in this country, we have about a million police officers. we have 500,000 national guard who are citizen soldiers, who operate under authority of governors. in my view, those are plenty of people who can do the policing function, and that real role is to protect the peaceful protesters. this is not a battle space to be dominated, and those are zones of protests to be protected. there are sufficient forces to do that, and i think the military is very concerned about getting pulled into the maelstrom of politics in an election year in order to push protesters as they were at lafayette square. that was wrong.

admiral james stavridis, i appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective and expertise from your point of view. thanks for being here. >> thank you. >> when we come back, i'm going to talk to representatives in two different generations of leadership in the fight for opportunity. different generations of leadership in the fight for opportunity. different generatio leadership in the fight for opportunity.

welcome back. when president john f. kennedy gave his nationally televised address on civil rights, he said 100 years had passed since abraham lincoln had freed the slaves and that black americans were not free. >> we are confronted primarily with a moral issue, as old as scriptures and as clear as the american constitution. >> that was 57 years ago this week. generations have passed since, and full equality still has not been achieved. this morning we will bring together two generations in its fight for equal rights.

lonny bunch is the founder of the museum of african-american history, and alicia garza is one of three women who founded the black lives matter movement. welcome to both of you. lonnie bunch, i will get to you in a moment, but i want to start with alicia garza. i want to start with 16th street and the symbolism and it was on so many papers on saturday. i am curious it went from a hash tag in 2013 to now the majority of americans, multi-racial coalition rallying around a symbol right now. what does this mean and how do you take this from symbol to policy? >> well, i think what this means, chuck, is that black lives matter is not just a radical idea, and, frankly, when

we look at -- there is a lot of consensus, and the consensus is that it is time to pool our money and our resources in a fully different way. at the end of the day, chuck, everyone can agree that we don't have the things that we need to live well and that we are using policing and law enforcement in a way that far exceeds, and we -- [ indiscernible ] to protesters and what we are hearing across the nation is that our priorities are in the wrong place and that this an opportunity for us to change. and so what i'm looking for right now and i think millions of americans are looking for right now is real change, not just around the edges, but going strength and directly to the route. why are we using so much resources to address --

[ inaudible ] we're having a little bit -- making sure that we limb the size, scope, and scale of policing in this country. >> when you hear the phrase -- when americans hear the phrase "defund the police," you're not calling for defunding police departments and getting rid of police. explain what you mean by that phrase. >> when we talk about defunding the police, what we're saying is invest in the resources that our communities need. so much of policing right now is generated and directed toward quality of life issues, homelessness, drug addiction, domestic violence, and conflict. [ inaudible ]

in order to address those issues, but what we do need is funding for housing. we need increased funding for education. we need increased funding for quality of life for a community that is overpoliced and oversurveilled. i heard senator booker earlier say it's not a phrase i would use, but i would actually agree with the content. so i would just ask all of us, are we willing to live in fear that our lives will be taken by police officers who are literally using their power in the wrong way, or are we willing to adopt and absorb what it might mean to change our practices, which will ultimately lead to a better quality of life for everyone. so, again, i want to be very, very clear. seven years ago people thought black lives matter was a radical idea and how black lives matter is a household name and something being discussed across kitchen tables all over the world. why can't we start to look at how it is that we reorganize our priorities so that people don't have to be in the streets protesting during a national

pandemic. it's really a global pandemic. it's time to adjust the pandemic in our communities, and that pandemic is not having the resources we need to live well. that's not just a black problem. that's everybody's problem. >> alicia garza there. my apologies. our apologies for the technical hiccup there, but i appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective with us. let me turn to the smithsonian institution, lonnie bunch. lonnie. take a step back. where are we in this arc of history of where we are in america? >> i can't hear what you said. >> i'm sorry about that. lonnie, take a step back. where are we on this arc in the story of america and civil rights? >> unfortunately, i can't hear a that.

>> you know, in some ways this is both a moment of optimism, but it's a moment that in some ways we've been here before. i think that this is a time that there are great differences. there are more people involved and it's a diverse group of people trying to fight for change, but to be honest, as an african-american, i am tired of mourning. i am tired of carrying the burden, but what i realize is the challenge for all of us is this is a time for america to finally confront its tortured, racial past. >> it does seem as if there is a majority of white america now sees tin equality, and matic took the health pandemic, the economic pandemic, and the examples of more police brie tault all happened within this 90-day window perhaps to get there. how do you take that momentum and turn it into some policy fixes? >> well, i think first of all, you're right. this is a moment when america can grapple with race and have the conversations they need to and grapple with policy. for me as i look back i'm always looking back and listening to the words of ella baker who said over 50 years ago that until the death of black mother's son is

as important to this country as the death of a white mother's son, we who believe in freedom cannot rest. for me, until we get to that day it means that now is the time to push and not rest to demand change. >> it was interesting yesterday to see the marines announce that they were basically going to ban any -- they didn't want any of their active duty soldiers to have confederate flag paraphernalia. it's symbolic, but is this the moment -- and we saw con federal memorials taken down in richmond and birmingham, although, the state of alabama is fighting the birmingham one. do you think this is the moment we finally get over this confederate memorial dialogue that we've -- we've seem to be running in circles around? >> what i hope is that this is a moment that we can candidly assess our history, that we can look at the confederate monuments and realize that some of them need to come down

because they represent not just a historic moment. they represent white supremacy and segregation. so i see this as a time that america can finally look at itself and be candid about what needs to change. i also think it's a time where you're really seeing allies across the board. you're seeing whites in europe caring about this. you're seeing black and white people coming together in the united states. i think this is the moment, and the key for me is will there be leadership at the national and the local level to affect the kind of change that this moment is allowing us to do? >> is president trump redeemable in this moment? >> say it again. in this moment? i lost you. >> is president trump redeemable in this moment? >> i think it's important to realize that this is something where all americans need to own this, that this is not a black problem. this is a quintessential american problem, and my hope is that leadership from the

national all the way down to the local will recognize this is a time to bring the country together because it's splintered in ways that are very, very painful. but this is a moment to take that pain and seize the prompt of america, a promise that means that we could finally live up to the stated ideals of this country. that's the challenge for all p political leadership. candidly, that's the challenge for all americans, to say this is the moment for change and transformation. >> lonnie bunch, i'm going have to leave it there. i appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective and sharing it from the historical context that you always do so well. thanks for coming on. >> good to see you, sir. >> thank you, chuck. good to see you. >> when we come back, president trump and former vice president joe biden on monday. what these two photos tell you about the men facing off in november. the panel's next.

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welcome back. the panel is joining us from their remote locations. washington post columnist eugene robinson, nbc news correspondent kristen welker and from the dispatch and time magazine columnist david french. david, i want to start with you. you wrote a very passionate column over the weekend about sort of your own personal experiences and trying to explain to white america what

institutional racism is. tell us more about it. >> i think i can sum it up in four words. don't be like me. when i first began to learn terms like systemic racism and institutional racism, i kind of took it as a lot of americans do, like it was a personal affront to them that the system i'm part of is racist and that i'm a racist. no, i'm not. what i try to do is break down and explain and i got a very unique, a very unique perspective of this and we adopted our youngest daughter from ethiopia and a lot of our family's experience changed quite substantially. we faced visual online racing in the 2016 ee lakz. what began to open my eyes is this understanding that, wait a

minute. you don't take 345 years of legally enforced racism that was protected by violence, military violence in the civil war and vigilante and often official up to the jim crow era and they're not going to be undone rapidly and say look how far we go. it shouldn't have to take having a multi-racial family to reach that conclusion. we should listen to the testimony and understand the exertions and believe what they say about their lives and respond accordingly. >> you know, eugene, i was thinking we're not that far apart in age.

sometimes it looks like we made a lot of progress. sometimes not. >> i grew up in the jim crow era. there were roads we would not drive down. it's heartbreaking. yesterday we rewatched the film "selma," the famous selma march, selma, montgomery march, and the scenes of those protesters being attacked on the edmund pettus bridge, it's so resonate today. you watch something like that and you can't help but be disheartened and say, you know, how much have we changed? have we made the progress in flattering ourselves in thinking we have made? you know, i come back to what

rev ronald sharpton kept saying at the memorial service for george floyd. get your knee off our neck. >> he talked about colin kaepernick taking a knee and then he withdrew. he seemed alone for that. the amen choir is not as loud. does the president realize he's alone right now. >> president trump needs to at some point needs to say what is he going to do about this crisis. he's trying to cast himself as the law and order president. he's inside the white house when you have this fencing, additional fencing that has gone up to create a larger perimeter,

and he is literally and metaphorically blocked off from the protesters outside and the crux of their demands, which is that they do want to see change throughout the country, throughout police departments all across the country. i was with president trump when he made that walk and held up that bible in that moment that has come under so much scrutiny. i asked, what specifically is your plan to address this crisis? do you see this as annism of of systemic racism. he shushed us. i think there's going to bin creased pressure for him to lay out specifically how he sees this and what he plans to do it about it, chuck. on your point about the nfl, this remarkable see change in the nfl, roger goodell coming out and saying black lives

matter, this could be sig can't and could underscore a real moment potentially for transition. >> i'm want to play that. i want to play the roger goodell sound here. nfl players basically almost seemed to challenge the league to say something more meaningful on this. in many ways, i think what they were looking for almost and they didn't say it but maybe also an apology and acknowledgment of what colin kaepernick did. verierful enough that roger goodell felt he had to respond. let me play the response and ask you guys if you think it was enough. >> we at the national football league condemn racism and systemic oppression of black people. we the national football league admit we were wrong to not listening to nfl players earlier and encourage all to speak out and peaceful protest. we the national football league believe black lives matter. >> you know, gene, look.

we're all struggling with video, and sometimes the video cannot make you look good and all this stuff. i am curious, though, without saying the name colin kaepernick, does that mean roger goodell's words ring more hollow to some? >> say his name. they should say the name of the player who was ostracized and banned from the league essentially for taking a knee in protest of police mistreatment of african-americans, and so i will believe the nfl is serious when i hear buy-in from the nfl owners, when i see reaction, how they react. i know players will take a knee this year, probably a lot of players, and there will probably be a lot of tweets from the white house, critical of that, and how will the owners react, how will the league react, we'll

see. >> david french, i know, "a," you're a big sports fan, but was it interesting to watch drew brees this week? >> yeah, it was interesting. look. drew brees is a lead over a team that is majority african-american, and i think what -- a mistake that he made was that -- i think he got lost in the form of the protest over the point of the protest. the disagreement over the form of the protest became something that overwhelmed the point of the protest. and i think that that's something that's a common error that a lot of people may. don't be distracted by the form. focus on the point. >> well said, mr. french. eugene, kristen, thank you all. we've got more to come here. let me pause right here. when we come back, the warning signs for president trump in our new nbc news wall streel journal poll. stay with us.

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welcome back. data download time. let's dive deeper into the nbc news/wall street journal poll with a look ahead at november. in 2016 hillary clinton won the popular vote by two points. right now joe biden has a seven-point edge, 49-42. biden's lead has been stable in our poll, and narrowing it may prove difficult for president trump, and here's why. first, the educational divide. while hillary clinton only won college-educated voters by nine polls according to the 2016 exit polls, biden is now up by 24 points with that same group of voters. president trump still leads

among voters without a college degree, but the gap has shrunk since 2016 from eight down to three points. then there's the gender cap or canyon if you will. clinton won women by 12 points. biden now has a 21-point edge with them. president trump still leads with men, but his advantage there has shrunk as well. and there's a particularly ominous sign for president trump among white voters overall. biden has a commanding lead among white voters and hispanic voters and he's behind where hillary clinton was on selection day, but look at what happened to president trump's lead among white voters. it's down from 21 points to just . 6. that could be fatal to president trump's re-election chances. for perspective, biden is sitting at 43% with white voters, which is exactly what barack obama got in his seven-point win in 2008.

of course, 2020 has provided nothing but surprises like friday's much better than expected job's report which had president trump heralding economic growth and promising more good times ahead and our poll does show the economy is a point of strength for the president. when we come back, cases of covid-19 is rising, so why are people acting as if that crisis is already over? hello everybody. it's me, gru.

but you already knew that. and i've got some tips to help you get through these challenging times. first, practice physical distancing. i'm sorry, i did not see you there. i've been doing it my whole life. or there.

plus, there are lots of things you can do at home. like, stay active with some sick dance moves. be daring. and whip up a new dish. i love the combination of gummy bears and meat. you can do video calls for all of your important meetings. what? sorry. or just have some fun. ok, not that much fun. now, this does not come naturally to me. but, try to be kind to each other. this is a tough time for everyone. so that's it. stay home. stay healthy. and remember, we're all in this together. what? but totally separate. you know what i mean. yaaaaay! welcome back. let's take a look at our poll through the prism of the pandemic on the issue of masks. our poll shows there is a big

divide between trump and biden depending on whether you wear a mask. check this out. folks that wear a mask always according to our poll, 66-26, 40-point advantage for biden. among those who rarely or never wear a mask, it's an 83-7 advantage for the president. david french, i guess we have politicized mask wearing. it did seem as if when this first started it was elected officials trying to polarize us on masks, but the public wasn't there. we're starting to see a little bit of this creep into the public now. >> a lot of it is creeping into the public. i mean, everything -- everything becomes culture war eventually in these times, it seems, and it seems unlikely to say that masking would become part of the culture war especially since prudent masking is an indispensable part of opening up the economy that so many folks and particularly in the less hard-hit red states have been asking for for a very long time, and so you have this dichotomy where on the one hand people are saying open, open, open in many

of the rhett states and the red parts of america, and at the same time, they're saying, don't tell me to mask, but the virus doesn't care about your politics. it doesn't care if you're out in public shoulder to shoulder with people because you're protesting racism and it doesn't care if you're not wearing a mask because you think it's a sign of weakness. it doesn't care. it can afflict people left, right, poor, rich, and it feels as if we've moved to a point where we're saying, oh, that's over now. that's over. that was the spring. we're coming into the summer, and again, we're dealing with a virus that it doesn't matter what we think about it. it's going to do what it's going to do, and we can only hope and pray, for example, in looking over the protests this last week that outside transmission is not nearly as dangerous as we thought it could have been, but, again, politics, the culture war battle here is irrelevant when

the advice doesn't care about it. >> kristen welker, the president was very excited about having unexpected good news in the economy showing an up arrow on job gains rather than the expected down arrow, and i want to put up numbers from the poll to show you, why he wants it to be a v and why it's unlikely to be a v and half the country is with the economic activity. 20% of those we surveyed feel comfortable doing a couple of those things. another -- i'd say another quarter tell us they have some medium level of comfort, 20%. one in five voters that we tested called themselves quasi comfortable, but you still have 52% who call themselves very uncomfortable in some form about flying, eating out or large groups, and i looked at those numbers and i heard the president's rhetoric, and i thought i know he wants this to be a "v" recovery, but that

demand issue shows me it won't, that it's unlikely it will be. >> right. white house officials, chuck, are saying the bottom line is that it is remarkable that we are seeing these signs of recovery at this point, and so you can expect the president to continue to try to focus on the numbers that are moving in the right direction because the economy is going to be key to his reee -election, and that's y you had that rose garden event on friday with the president essentially taking a victory lap, and i am told that the biden campaign and the former vice president will focus this focused on his plans for the economic recovery and revival, and biden knows that he needs to be, in essence, more out front. we saw that this week when he spoke in philadelphia and in dover about these protests, and so for biden, he's going to really try to make this a leadership issue, but i do think, chuck, this re-election is going to largely focus on the economy and the broader

questions about leadership and handling these dual crises, the coronavirus and the protests, chuck. >> gene, do i feel that democrats have to be careful and not to look like they're unhappy that the economy surprisingly looked better and that jobs report and i go back to 2004 and when there were times they looked like the democrats and the kerry campaign thought the worse the economic picture, the better shot they have. so you have to be careful when you walk that line. there's no doubt that the president might be overspiking the football, but you can't look like you're unhappy about it. >> right. i haven't heard democrats who sounded unhappy at the signs of economic progress and recovery. i heard some questioning of the -- of the bureau of labor statistics figures, but not seriously. i mean these are experienced and dedicated professionals who have done this for generations. and so i believe the numbers, and i think everyone has to

celebrate economic recovery. i think that the issue for the president, though, is the number of people who as judged by our poll think the country is sort of spiraling out of control with these multiple crisis on top of crisis, pandemic and great-depression-level protests, and that is not good for an incoming president to have the overwhelming majority of the country feeling that things are out of control. >> no. that, to me, is definitely the toughest number in our poll there. that's all we have for today. thank you for watching. thank you for trusting us. we really appreciate it. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

in the wake of nationwide protests over the death of george floyd, nine members of the minneapolis city council have announced their intent to dismantle the city's police department. plus, former secretary of state colin powell endorses joe biden for president and calls donald trump a danger to this country. and fnl commissioner roger goodell says the league was wrong in listening to racism as donald trump tries to reignite controversy over the "national anthem." good monday morning, everybody. it is june 8th,