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good evening from new york. i'm steve kornaki. two weeks after his death, george floyd was paid tribute today at a funeral service in houston. loved ones gathered along with civil rights leaders, musicians, activists, and lawmakers to celebrate floyd's life, the life and death that has become a catalyst for a political movement. we saw an outpouring of grief in this service. we also saw calls for action. in his eulogy, reverend al sharpton said racism is pervasive and protected by, quote, "wickedness in high places." >> we are fighting an institutional systemic problem that has been allowed to permeate since we were brought to these shores. until the law is upheld and people know they will go to

jail, they'll keep doing it because they are protected by wickedness in high places. >> in a video that was recorded for the service, former vice president joe biden delivered remarks, as well. >> we cannot leave this moment thinking we can once again turn away from racism. it stings at our very soul. now is a time for racial justice. that's the answer we must give to our children when they ask why. because whether it's just ice fr george floyd, we'll truly be our way to racial justice in america, and then, as you said, gianna, your daddy will have changed the world. may god be with you, george floyd, and your family. >> and well floyd is being laid to rest, the protests over his death and racial injustice continue. we'll be following some of those

demonstrations in new york and elsewhere tonight. we begin with a day of passion and mourning at george floyd's funeral in houston, texas. and lester holt joins me from there now. thank you so much for joining us. i appreciate this. a lot of this watched this service today. we saw highlights from it, certainly. it was striking to watch. there was mourning, there was grief, there was family, there was also a message in this service, too. >> reporter: yeah, at moments it was like going to church. certainly had the passion and message but also the message of anger. just, you know, this desire for simply an equal application of the law. that's what we're talking about. we're talking about, you know, equal justice rights. that was the plea here. there are moments, certainly, of family stories and things you hear when someone is being yu

eulogized. reverend al went after reversal thinking of colin kaepernick and the taking of the knee. there were a mix of emotions here. listen, it comes down to this, a life that was taken too early. that was stolen from him and a life that serves as this icon of -- i don't want to say this moment, this chapter in this movement, which we've been going through for many years. >> and, lester, yet it seems -- we mentioned, it seems to be a catalyst for a political movement. protests we've been following in the streets. there's more taking place now. taking place tonight. in talking about the possibility that was in the air there today and his death, as tragic as it is, might lead to something real in terms of change >>well, you're seeing things. you're seeing police officers arrested and cases that were videoed of some of the protests. things you might not have seen that is happening quickly. the talk about defunding the

police. there are a lot of moving pieces. reverend sharpton spoke to the idea that some of the people making noise and being active, they won't be there at some point. he said he'll be there after the last tv truck goes, i think that was his line. it speaks to a truth we've seen in so many movements that the passion can only go so far but the question is how will others pick it up and carry it? what we saw the murder of george floyd was so graphic. there's no walking away from it. we all bore witness to it. >> right. lester holt, anchor of nbc nightly news in houston. thank you. meanwhile, the president, as we mentioned, began his day with an alarming tweet. he addressed this altercation from last thursday in buffalo, new york where a 75-year-old protester was pushed by police and struck his head on the sidewalk and began to bleed from his ear. the victim is still hospitalized in serious but stable condition and two officers have been charged with felony assault from

that incident. this morning, though, the president made the unsubstantiated allegation that the victim, quote, "could be an antifa proprovocateur." as nbc news reports, the president's claims are rooted in a conspiracy theory that originated on an anonymous website. that claim was featured on the right wing cable news channel, one america news network, where it apparently seems the president heard it. nbc news has debunked much of this claim, including the aspect of the police scanners. the claim that police scanners can block radio communications. there were a few republican senators today who publicly took issue with the president's tweet. >> i saw the tweet. it was a shocking thing to say. i won't dignify it with any

further comment. >> ting would be best if the president would not comment on issues that are before the courts. >> others, though, handled it differently. >> i just saw the tweet and i know nothing of the episode so i don't know. i'm not as fixated, as some people. >> i didn't see it. i saw, you know -- i saw, you know, that he had fallen. >> so no real response to it but i don't think it should be surprising, in general, because he tweets a lot. >> and i'm joined by jonathan swan, national political reporter with axios. and susan paige with "usa today." jonathan, let me start with you. judging by some of the reaction i saw, not necessarily from

lawmakers but from the sort of conservative voices in the media, it seemed to me there might be a stronger reaction to this particular tweet from trump than from some of his others. he's had some inflammatory ones in the past. i'm curious, what are you hearing behind the scenes in the white house? is there any reaction to the president making this claim? >> yeah, so, my phone was blowing up this morning with white house aids, people who work for the campaign, and other advisors on the outside who just kind of just are besides themselves. they tried to construct this week around getting the president back into the conversation about police reform. as you recall, and as we've reported, he's at a low point in the polls now. they're very concerned about his standing with independents and urban women and part of that, they believe, trump's political team, believes is to do with his

tone and the way he's addressed these matters. so this week was supposed to be all about this nuanced outreach hearing/listening sessions like we had yesterday with law enforcement. you know, his staff going down to the hill, as jared kushner did today with mark meadows to talk to tim scott about reforms to policing around the country and hearing the concerns about americans. and for the president to drop this bomb in the middle of it was not helpful, to say the least. >> susan, in terms of the reaction we showed some of it there from republicans. a few of them, mitt romney and lisa murkowski have been a little bit more critical lately of the president than some of their colleagues. they were speaking out. others perhaps not so much. i'm curious what you're hearing on the president side of this. jonathan mentioned the president's poll numbers in the last week or two. it started to take a hit here. his leadership on this current crisis, a matter of policing doesn't seem to be being reviewed well by the public.

is the -- of republicans in washington for this type of tweet, this sort of behavior from the.is president, is it wearing thin at all here? >> i think the least favorite question you can ask a republican on capitol hill these days are, can you comment on the president's tweet? that guarantees most of them try to run for the hills. there is i thin, i think, angst it. i think there's a feeling it's unhelpful. but there is not any kind of wholesale public departure because donald trump now controls and defines the republican party. so i think it's surprising that when the president puts out tweet like this that is, number one, false is completely tone-deaf on the day that george floyd is laid to rest. i think it is surprising -- all though we should no longer be

surprised by this -- there isn't more outrage on the part of republicans. >> there's the question beyond this tweet, which took everybody by surprise this morning. what is to come of this current moment in terms of this presidency and from congress, perhaps, nbc on that front is reporting that the president could unveil a set of proposals on police reform as early as thursday. the administration is weighing measures, quote, to track police officers with multiple instances of misconduct as well as other changes to policing tactics. meanwhile, republican senator tim scott of south carolina, who has his own legislative proposal, met today with the white house officials, including jared kushner. a this comes after house democrats released their own plan, which includes a ban on choke holds and limits the immunity officer can receive from civil lawsuits. that's where the president draws the line. according to nbc, trump won't support the democratic bill. there's no consensus in the white house on banning choke

holds. jonathan, let me go back to you. we've seen what the democrats laid out. we're hearing rumblings of something on the republican side. a will, perhaps, to do something. is there a potential of common ground here? >> i can share some details about what the republicans in the senate are looking at. i've spoken to two sources who are familiar with the working group. what they're looking at doing is conditioning federal grants. federal money that goes to the states on requirements of the states to provide more information about police officers and their use of force. that's the key. that's the core part of this bill. they're also looking at doing the same thing for no -- warrants and making lynching a federal crime and creating some review bodies for misconduct. so there is potential for bipartisanship on those

proposals, but i think where it gets pretty sticky is for president trump's own instincts. he has, for years and years and years come from this -- from the point of view that we're too politically correct about policing and police officers should be unleashed to be rougher. if you recall during the '16 campaign, he talked about how he would paid people's bills if they roughed up some of the protesters during his crowds. so, you know, it doesn't surprise me he's reluctant to do something like banning choke holds. >> does the apparent will here, the apparent desire, at least, of the president, the white house, to move in this direction -- does it tell us anything? does it signal anything about how they're looking at the publics' response to the issue and the president's leadership on it in the last week? >> you know, i think there are people around the president who are extremely concerned about where he is on this issue. where he's going. this has been a defining moment.

george floyd's death and the demonstration and the movement of the demonstrators last monday and today's tweet. the president is in a place that is at odds with majority of american public opinion. but, you know, good luck getting the president to go along with whatever carefully crafted nuanced proposal the white house might be willing to back when it comes to this issue. and the problem with getting, too, i think a bipartisan issue even on the hill there's more sentiment is the republicans, i think, are unlikely to go as far as the democrats who will demand they go and then you've got the president there. i think i am -- count me as pessimistic that something actually gets through this year. >> all right. on that pessimistic note, then, susan page and jonathan swan. thank you for being here. coming up, defund the police. activists are chanting it. joe biden said he's against it. some cities said they're already doing it. also, not everyone is

talking about the same thing here. we'll get into the debate over defunding the police. that's next. plus, as trump thfaces somef the worst poll numbers, he plans to resume rallies next week. to resume rallies next week. so you only pay for what you need? i should get a quote. do it. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ it's like walking into the chocolate factory and you won a golden ticket. all of these are face masks. this looks like a bottle of vodka. but when we first got these, we were like whoa! [laughing] my three-year-old, when we get a box delivered, screams "mommy's work!" mommy's work. with this pandemic, safety is even more important to make sure we go home safe every single day.

when we talk about defunding the police, what we're saying is invest in the resources that are -- so much of -- is generated -- >> what it would look like is increase in vigilanteism and increasing chaos in the city. that's why doing things that prevent us from having a strong effective police force are counter productive. >> welcome back. defund the police has become the rallying cry heard among many people protesting the death of

george floyd. it seems to mean different things to different people, though, including those who say they support it. for instance, in minneapolis, the majority of the members of the city council say they are committed to, quote, dismantling the city's police department and pursuing, quote, a police-free future. the president and the city council is calling this aspirational and said it's the goal they're working toward. for others, defunding the police means shrinking police budgets and reinvesting that money into things like health care, education, and programs for marginalized communities. a recent poll found americans largely support some police reforms like outfitting officers with body cameras and banning neck restraints, only 16% said they support the idea of cutting funding to police departments. for more, i'm joined by christina greer, associate professor of political science at northern university and rich lowrie, editor of "national review." thank you for being here. christina, take maybe, if we will -- the max mall definition

of defund the police that is out there. i guess it's minneapolis right now saying they want to dismantle the police department and they want a future that is in their words, police free. is that a vision you subscribe to? >> i think there's a lot of wiggle room in between. i think we have to have a radical reimagination. especially during this era of covid. clearly whatever structures and systems we've had set up aren't working. for a large percentage of american but specifically black americans. activism is working on thinking through what policing looks like in cities and towns across the country. we have to be honest the infiltration of white nationalism of in the police departments. we have to honest about the level of artillery the police departments have been given. we don't need tanks in ferguson. we don't need the artillery being used on american citizens. i think, you know, it makes me think of thomas jefferson writing in 1820 when he talks

about having the -- behind the ears. so many people said it couldn't be done. the conversation of justice versus some preservation. and we have to think about our police department in the same way. there's so many people quick to say we cannot reimagine taking money away or taking resources away or taking their weaponry. i mean, look at the tanks you have. you know, we have to think about justice for all citizens and the way so many of our police departments have been set up is completely inequitable for black men and women and black children. we should not be raising people to fear the police. part of the deescalation of the uprisings we've seen and the damage we've seen is because of this. because peaceful protests have turned into these antagonistic endeavors because of police officers escalading some of these protests.

so i think that, you know, if we're going to have a conversation about it, i don't think anybody wants underfunded police departments where corruption is rampant and individuals fear they're going to be shaken down by the citizens that are sworn to serve and protect. but i think that if we can figure out how to put a man on the moon, i think we can figure out a way we can find a police department that can treat black citizens equally and they do not need tanks, aka 47s, bayonets, and listening devices that spy on black activists and black journalists. >> rich, what do you make of the points? i think if you take defund the police literally, it's insanely radical and impractical proposal. minneapolis, no matter what its new police force will be, there's going to be some force of police reform. a lot of people did point to camden.

they created a new police force. it's a basically a union busting measures to get around the police reform. at the end of the day, camden had more police than it did at the start of the process. so clearly we should look at accountability, transparency, look at union rules that make no sense that protect bad officers. i think those kind of things you can get bipartisan buy in. and the last point, steve, a lot of this is going to involve the base within cities and blue states. sort of the different fashions and the divisions among democrats are probably more important when you're up against the road between the republicans and democrats on this. >> and, christina, you were talking about the idea of reimagining things. maybe a question here to ask you. i'll start with you. what do you envision the rule of policing to be?

>> i think there are a lot of small steps that we can take. keep in mind, there have been activists and organizers in atlanta and chicago working on this for years. but, you know, if we just get rid of the type of warrants that killed briyona taylor in her own bed, you know, that could have extreme results across the cities, you know, across all 50 states. if we think about the fact that so many police departments get contracts to essentially get a lot of weaponry that we've used overseas, essentially arming or police departments with toys that they use on the american public. i mean, when you have a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail and sadly black and latin citizens start to look like nails for a lot of police departments. if you don't have this type of weaponry, we can take that away and not give them the opportunity to purchase it, that's another step. but, you know, when rich says

that using camden as the example of restructuring union contracts, i think there is something to be said about that. yes, we have a lot of democratic mayors who are trying to negotiate with police unions across the country, but, you know, there's so many unions that are able to protect and harbor police officers who should not be on the force. and if we are going to dismantle the police and rebuild it next door, that's one way to think about getting rid of people who should not be pulling a pension or paycheck the taxpayers are thinking for. we have to think about the officer who strangled eric garner, put him in the illegal choke hold, pulled a check for five additional years after the death of eric garner, a black man on camera. so there are minor steps, i think, obviously -- this is america, everything is based on comprise and a lot of democratic mayors are dealing with

constraints on statewide levels but i refuse to think that, you know, we should get distracted from this semantics of defund, deescalade when we have to think about the larger conversation is black lives matter. black lives aren't asking to be put ahead of anyone. they're not asking to be given anything special. black lives matter, when it comes to thinking about it and situated with the police is purely to be considered as human beings and citizens who have the protection of the law. all entities of the law. and not be killed by state and not be killed by the vigilantes who have the protection of the state. that's a simple, basic premises. the fact this country struggles with the anti-racist principles to say that black people can be considered an equal, lets us know we have a lot of work to do. >> i have the same question to you, rich. how do you think about the rule of policing going forward? >> well, i think we should look at transparency and

accountability. i think just taking an ax to police department budgets or defunding the police is -- defunding the police is is a distractions. and it gives fodder for republicans. trump campaign would be delighted to have joe biden enforce defund the police. joe biden has been around the block a few times and a clever politician. there's no way he's going enforce defunding the police. his campaign said he wants to spend more on police to make the departments better. so i think fundamentally law enforcement is a local issue. this is for cities to decide and to debate. again, if you have concrete measures that would strip away some of the union protections that give police or bad cops protections they shouldn't have, i don't they have much debate about that. if you have a debate about defund the police, you have clashes but one that puts democrats on the back -- >> on this subject during the

round table with law enforcement officials yesterday, president trump said he strongly opposed the idea of defunding of police. on this issue, former vice president joe biden appears to agree. >> you've seen the black lives matter painted on the street just outside the white house. some demonstrators added equals defund the police. do you support defunding the police? >> no. i don't defunding the police. i support conditioning federal aid to police based on whether or not they made certain basic standards of decency on honorableness and, in fact, able to demonstrate they can protect the community and everybody in the community. >> so, christina, on that question of defunding the police, that term that is out there, both trump and biden say they oppose it. i'm just curious, if we put the polling number up here a minute ago. it's stark when you put those reform proposals of people banning neck restraints and

outfitting officers with body cameras. massive overwhelming bipartisan support there. when you say cut funding, not eliminate, but cut funding for police departments, it's 16% -- it's democrats and republicans overwhelmingly say no to the idea of cutting police departments. how do you think about this in the issue of public opinion being there this. >> i think a lot of democrats worry about if they call a police officer for whatever it is, they think of defunding as completely abolishing anyone on the other end of 9-1-1. we have to think about why we call the police. whether it's domestic violence, whether it's a fire. whether or not you're having some sort of medical condition. we've seen time and time again, especially when it comes to black communities, police escalade the situation as opposed to deescalade a situation. and i think that part of joe biden's response is that he understands that moderate democrats feel uneasy about this phrasing but we also have to keep our eye on the prize. which is november 3rd.

because if nothing else, if joe biden is elected, we know he'll appoint an attorney general that understands the issues that are presented to black americans and will have a very different point of view than attorney general barr. so it's not just about this political moment. it's not just about the protest and the uprisings in this moment. i'm hoping that a lot of people who are very passionate about defunding the police and having real change understand that the activism and the organizers that will need to happen will need to be consistent basis so that the next attorney general can put into action across all 50 states. >> all right. >> but -- >> the reason there's just 16% support for defunding the police is everyone black, white, whatever understands that if someone invades your home, someone assaults you on the street, you need to call someone to help you. yes, everyone should be treated equally by the police. there shouldn't be racial bias.

bad cops should be punished but we need a police force. if democrats are going to embrace the idea we don't, joe biden -- that's a major losing issue. again, joe biden is not stupid enough to endorse that. >> that'll be the last word for now. thank you for joining us. i appreciate it. up next, we'll head to the big board. there's still a pandemic raging right now. where is it on the rise? where is it falling? where is it stable? we'll take a look at the latest covid numbers and break them down after this. latest covid numbers and break them down after this. usaa was made for right now. and right now, is a time for action. so, for a second time we're giving members a credit on their auto insurance. because it's the right thing to do. we're also giving payment relief options to eligible members so they can take care of things like groceries before they worry about their insurance or credit card bills. right now is the time to take care of what matters most. like we've done together, so many times before. discover all the ways we're helping members at usaa.com/coronavirus

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in a period of four months, it has devastated the world. i mean, 110 deaths in the united states -- and millions and millions of infections worldwide. it isn't over yet. >> yeah, 110,000 deaths right now from the coronavirus here in the united states. this thing and anthony fauci said, it's still here. it's still happening. it's still playing out. the numbers on this are changing a bit. that's what we want to show you, it's a look at the whole country. you know new york and new jersey and new york metro area has been the hardest hit. that's been the epicenter here. it is certainly impacted other parts of the country, as well. the geography of this might be changing a bit. there are some alarming numbers, in some parts of the country. let's take a look.

the overall picture for the country here is an encouraging picture. in the last two weeks, the number of new cases per day is down 5% in the last two weeks. tests -- remember we talk about trying to get more and more testing out there. it's up 15%. so a number of new cases is down. testing is up. that's good. it means the formula there, it means the positivity rate will start coming down as the percentage of all tests they've taken have come back positive. you want to see that under 10%. it's 5%. was 6% a couple of weeks ago. that's a good sign. and the number of hospitalizations is down 44%. those are encouraging nusmbers nationally. however, a big reason for the numbers nationally is simply this. new york, new york, as we said, the epicenter in the country. new cases are down 37%. testing is way up. 53%. the positive rate all the way down to 2% in the last two weeks and hospitalizations -- if you took the new york metro area out of the equation, we would be

flat nationally. and there have some states, in fact, where it's rising. testing is up. that's part of it but the number of new cases is up. the positive rate this is the thing, we say 10%. it's double digits in arizona. it's 11%. it was 7. hospitalizations up, as well. some alarming numbers out of arizona. take a look at texas. new cases also up in texas. testing is up, too, a little bit. testing accounts for a little bit. the positive rate in texas it's up from 6 to 7. it's under 10. it's concerning, perhaps, in texas but not quite on the scale we showed you in arizona. hospitalizations we don't have that statistic, unfortunately. california, in fact, a similar picture in texas -- plus 36% of new cases. testing up, as well. the positive rate is up 1 point. it's under 10%. hospitalizations -- we don't have the number for california. but this is part of what we said, too, as the states lessen restrictions start to reopen, all the experts we've been

talking to said you can expect to see the numbers start to climb. it's a question of how high and how quickly. we're starting to see in the individual states. still ahead, after a rough month, donald trump is looking to get his campaign back on track. guess what he's bringing back? the rallies. will it make a difference? we're back after this. llies. will it make a difference? we're back after this. -excuse me. uh... do you mind...being a mo-tour? -what could be better than being a mo-tour? the real question is... do you mind not being a mo-tour? -i do. for those who were born to ride, there's progressive. -i do. if you have a garden you know, weeds are low down little scoundrels. draw the line with roundup. the sure shot wand extends with a protective shield

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welcome back. president trump is looking to get back on the campaign trail and to restart his rallies. this morning he tweeted this big demand starting up again soon. maybe next week. two officials familiar with the planning told nbc news his re-election campaign is preparing to present the president with options to resume rallies this month, according to those officials, quote, "over the last week, trump has been asking advisors why he can't hold mass rallies when thousands of people are gathering in the streets to protest the death of

george floyd." the move to resume campaigning follows key polls that shows trump trailing joe biden. it also comes as the white house is reportedly struggling to come up with a message on race and policing after more than two weeks of protests over floyd's death. the "washington post" reports, quote, "the president and his aids are deliberating ways to more directly address the issue of race to help soothe tensions while mitigating potential political damage in election year." goes on to add, quote, "the discussions centered on a presidential address that come as soon as later this week." on monday trump said he thinks the vast majority of police are doing a fine job. a new poll shows the president is out of step with an increasing number of american people when it comes to the protests and what is behind them. that is coming up next. t is beh them that is coming up next e and cusr insurance so you only pay for what you need.

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welcome back. president trump is hoping to get back on the campaign trail soon against the backdrop of the coronavirus pandemic and the large scale protests over race and policing that have gripped the country the past two weeks. according to the "washington post," the president is seeking to turn the protests into a debate over law and order. a term he has been tweeting out frequently over the last week. according to a new "washington post" poll, 69% of americans said george floyd's killing

represents a broader problem within law enforcement and 29% said it's an isolated incident, and nearly 3/4 said they support the protest over floyd's killing. as to president trump's response to the protest, 61% said they disapprove. for more, i am joined by aiesho r r rasco. we mentioned this in the last block. two things -- it seems, coming out from folks around the president here. the idea of kind of wrapping himself in this law and order message, which we've seen him doing in public, but, also, this idea that would he deliver? would he try to deliver some kind of message on race, on unity? is that something that is in the works here? is there a way to square these two? >> it seems like that's what they're trying to do. i think the polling you pointed out is part of the reason why they're even taking any action. the president's instinct is to go law and order.

that's what we've heard over and over again but it seems like in this moment that is not enough. so right now you see -- you saw white house chief of staff mark meadows on the hill today along with jeron smith, a top aid at the white house talking to senator tim scott about what they can do on criminal justice reform. what they can do on policing reforms. so i think i would say keep an eye out on what senator scott is looking for because he definitely has the ear of the white house and he's calling for a civil rights commission and he's also calling for more reporting by the police when the shootings happen. >> eli, it occurs to me we showed earlier in the program, i think everybody woke up this morning and started going about their day and saw the president decided he would tweet out this claim about this protester in buffalo who is still apparently hospitalized that the police have been charged in that case -- the president deciding

after seeing something on the oan network it was something he wanted to bring out in advance. i guess the question i'm asking here is, there's all the discussions -- there's so much reporting about they're considering doing this and that. maybe he'll try to give a speech on this. but it just seems that whatever decision is made here, president's twitter feed will drive everything. >> yeah, that's right. that's what we've seen for more than three years now, steve. this is the president whose impulses often undercut what his campaign staff and white house staff are trying to do to put him on a firmer footing. the campaign has been trying to come up with some sort of reboot here. law and order may be an answer, obviously, given the polling you've put up, seems a bit out of step with where 3/4 of the country actually are on the issue of the protests now. but for the president to go further and to -- i mean, everybody saw the video of the man in buffalo pushed back ward,

his hit head hit the pavement. the officers have been charged and the president tweets out the conspiracy theory. this is is a president whose campaign rests on hoping the economy returns. they got good is a president wh campaign rests on hoping the economy returns. they got good news on friday. the president took a big victory lap touting a better jobs report for may than most were expecting. and then a couple days later, here we are, and he's doing something outlandish. just another example of why he is where he is in the polls right now and why the efforts of staff are often futile when it comes to fixing that. >> we mentioned too the president eager to get back to these rallies. apparently we can expect those sometime in the near future. what is the advantage the president believes those give him? and is there any sense in the white house that his recent struggles in the polls are related to that at all?

>> what the rallies do is they give the president something where he is, that's where he's most comfortable and it energizes the president. he gets to also do something where he tries out different messages, and he gets that instantaneous response, whether it's, you know, whether the crowd is cheering and going crazy. and he said that he sees when the crowd is going crazy, and he knows that he should say that over and over again. so he gets that feedback. of course, the problem right now is that he's taking a big risk, if he holds these big rallies in an area, and then you see coronavirus cases spike, does he really want to have the perception that he put his own supporters at risk to hold a rally? but that is what he and this white house and -- well, he and the campaign are committed to doing. >> eli, what's the expectation when it comes to joe biden? if the president is restarting rallies and having traditional

campaign events, does that put any pressure on biden to do the same? do you have any sense what the thinking is there? >> a little bit. i'm pretty busy covering the white house, not 100% sure what the internal biden campaign thinking is. i just saw he is heading to philadelphia for a public event on thursday. so that gives you a sense that biden is getting out there a little more and we will see something that looks a little more like a regular campaign rather than a candidate doing zoom calls from his basement going forward, how frequent that is i guess remains to be seen. but biden, based on the polling, is in the driver's seat. it's the president who has to, you know, find some way to regain the support that he's lost. it's not just an erosion, you know, the numbers with women are bad. but people close to the campaign have told me their internal polls show that they have lost support even from white men. that's the bedrock of their base. and so the rallies may go some

way to helping the president juice that base, get some of those supporters maybe back in the fold. but as far as expanding and really cutting into biden's lead, this is going to come down to where the economy is, whether they're able to sort of take biden down some pegs with some negative advertising. and the enthusiasm they generate in rallies. will that be enough? because when you talk to the trump campaign, those are the three things that their comeback rests on. obviously all of those things are looking less than guaranteed at this point. >> all right. thank you both for joining us. up next, we'll take a look back at the tough on crime approach of the 1990s and how the politics around that have changed. stay with us. e politics around changed. stay with us

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now that's simple, easy, awesome. transfer your service in minutes, making moving with xfinity a breeze. visit xfinity.com/moving today. the conversation in this country right now is about law enforcement and how to reform it. and it's bhn building for a number of years. the polling shows some major changes in how americans think about it. a cbs poll this week found that a clear majority, 57%, majority of americans now say the police in most communities treat white people better than black people. fewer than 40% now think that both are treated equally. this is a massive shift and it's

likely shoff major ramifications in the days ahead when it somes to whether reforms will pass congress and when it comes to the presidential campaign. it also marks a real change from where things were a generation ago. so much of the conversation now is about rethinking how things have been done in the past. the so-called tough on crime approach that defined policy for a long time in this country. the 1994 crime bill came up a lot during the democratic primaries. joe biden was the author of it, one of the most famous pieces of legislation from that tough on crime aera. but it ushered in an era of mass incarceration. this didn't stop biden from winning the democratic nomination and he issued an apology. now he talks about taking on systemic racism. the change reflects how the politics of law enforcement have changed in this country. that probably reflects how much the facts on the ground have

changed. it's hard to remember now, but when the crime bill was enacted, it was much more violent crime in this country. in 1993, there were 747 reported violent crimes for every 100,000 people in the country. in many major cities, murder was far more common than it is today. new york city recorded over 2,000 homicides a year for eight straight years in the late '80s and early '90s. when the crime bill passed in 1949, our own poll found that americans considered the number one issue in the country to be crime. the statistics are very different today, though. the violent crime rate has been cut in half. instead of 2,000 murders a year, new york city recorded a total of 318 last year. and that was actually up slightly from the year before. voters aren't telling pollsters that crime is their top concern anymore. what they are beginning to tell pollsters is that policing, and policing reform are on their

minds. that is a big change that could have a big impact on our politics now and in the future. that is going to do it for us tonight. thank you for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" is up next. tonight on "all in" -- george floyd is laid to rest in houston. real movement on police reform begins and trump attacks the victim in buffalo. no, really. tonight, while we all need to worry about a president panicking over his election, senator tammy duckworth is here. and defund the police movement, how would that work? congressman delgado on what the protests look like in trump country. and why arizona is on the brink of a covid emergency after ignoring cdc guidelines for opening up. when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes.