welcome back, folks we were having some technical issues there, we apologize for that. we tried to get alexi's audio up and running but we couldn't. but axios will be back with us monday morning. "morning joe" starts now. even dr. king's association didn't have the worldwide impact that george floyd's death did. because just like television changed the civil rights movement for the better when they saw bull connor and the dogs ripping the clothes off elderly back women going to chunk and fire hoses ripping the skin off young kids, all the people around the country who didn't have black populations

saw it, it was impossible to close their eyes. now you have george floyd, how many people around the country, millions of cell phones. it's changed the way people look at this. look at the millions of people marching around the world. the world. so my point is i think people are really realizing this is a battle for the soul of america. americans are good and virt virt virtue us people we have to work together wherever bigotry may appear but we'll make no moves by falsely labelling tens of millions of americans as racist or bigots we have to get everybody together and be in the same path. if we don't do that we'll have problems. but we'll do that. i think it'll go quickly and

very easily. >> president trump and joe biden both speaking yesterday about combatting racism. >> it'll go very easily and very quickly? >> like the coronavirus? okay. >> we have a lot to talk about today but this is a guy who is badly out of step, even with his own republican party. >> the country. >> well, with the country, the renaming of bases, which the military services are willing to do, republicans are willing to do. donald trump is standing alone more and more every single day on this issue of race, a relic from a different age as the "new york times" writes this morning. >> it's friday, june 12th, along with joe, willy and me, we have associate editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson. columnist and editor for "the

washington post," david ignatius. and nbc news correspondent carol lee at the white house. so much to get to this morning, joe. >> willie, do you want to go to a rally? would you like to go a rally right now? i want to crowd in with a lot of people -- >> 5,000 people? >> yeah. inside. i want to do that. if you want to go to a trump rally, you know, donald trump, he's so cool, he goes to -- he goes to a plant in maine where they're making swabs and and he doesn't wear a mask because he thinks that's cool. of course, they have to destroy all the work they're doing for testing because he didn't wear it. and you remember mark meadows a couple days ago looking at the press going you look funny in your masks.

jake sherman said, yeah, because we don't want to die. it's this fake macho b.s. they're trying to pull off. but here's the deal, donald trump, in the immortal words of ross perot, when the rubber meets the road, when it has to do with donald trump's money, suddenly he believes in science. i've seen the light. i've seen the light. praise the lord, i've seen the light. the message on the campaign website for reelect donald trump, commander in chief without a mask says this. if you want to register for his rally in tulsa by clicking below, you are acknowledging an inherent risk of exposure to covid-19 exists in any public place where people are present by attending the rally you and

your guest voluntarily assume all risks related to exposure to covid-19 and you agree not to hold -- you agree not to hold -- you agree not to hold donald j. trump for president inc. or the stadium liable for any illness or injury. there is another way i could have written this. i tried to help them out with a succinct tweet, willy, and it goes something like this. come to our rally. ps, it could kill you, but that's your problem. >> wow. >> oh my gosh, where to begin with that. that was stunning reading by the way, very dramatic. well done. i don't want to go to any rally at a packed arena.

i barely go to the stop n shop, so i don't want to go to tulsa or anywhere with the state of the disease right now. this bach center, you say it has cancelled its concerts well into july, deep into july. they had bon jovi coming in, poison coming in on the 23rd for heaven's sake, those have been postponed because of coronavirus because they don't want people packed into their arena, now a week from today, the president is planning the rally, he's not going to cancel it given everything swirling around it, the coronavirus, so instead of canceling it they put a disclaimer at the bottom of their website that says if you walk through those doors you are signing any right to sue us, the arena, anybody else if you come down with the coronavirus from

being inside a packed arena. >> gene, seriously, they do this fake macho thing which i never realized denying science was macho, but they do this fake macho thing, denying medicine, you know, and then when push comes to shove, y'all sure do look funny in your masks. y'all sure look funny. and donald trump trying to be macho by being the only person not wearing a mask while everybody else is wearing a mask while they're trying to get enough swabs, they have to destroy all that. but when push comes to shove, rubber meets the road, has to do with donald trump's money he says coming to my rally could kill you and if you come i'm not responsible. sign right here. >> if you pay attention to me

and do as i say and do, of course you don't have the secret service around you all the time, you're not being tested regularly for covid-19 and having the people around you tested for covid-19. so you're not in the bubble i'm in. so i'm not particularly worried, but all you, you know, from my loyal base, my great american people, you just might die if you come to my rally. and so, don't sue me. it's just -- you could not make this up. you could not make this stuff up. you really couldn't. >> you really can't make it up. i thought it was a joke when i saw it. >> i tell you, it's poison. >> that's unbelievable. make america great again but try not to die while you're doing it. >> it's hashtag make america

great again but you might die and we're not responsible. >> you mentioned the article that talked about trump being out of step with the country. >> as paul mccart any said like a relick from a different age. >> an effort to remove the name of confederate leaders from military bases is gaining strength from both sides of the aisle. the republican senate has adopt adopted an amendment that they rename bases named for confederate generals. and the president tweeted yesterday saying she just introduced an amendment on renaming many of our legendary military bases from which we trained to win two world wars. hopefully our great republican

senators won't fall for this. is that a threat? but on capitol hill a number of republicans signalled they're open to the renaming bases. >> i do not think we ought to try to rewrite history. i think it's always appropriate to review the people and places we honor to see if they fit the context of times in which we live. >> i think we should look long term at what that means. i've been outspoken on things like schools. i don't think schools should be named after confederate leaders and generals. >> the message is if we're going to have bases throughout the united states, i think it should be with the names of individuals who fought for our country. we don't want to forget our history. we don't want to forget what's happened in the past. but at the same time, that doesn't mean that we should continue with those bases, with the names of individuals who fought against our country.

>> republican senator roy blunt also said yesterday he had no problems with changing the names of military bases. he said if you want to continue to name forts after soldiers there have been a lot of great soldiers who have come along since the civil war. braxton bragg, who was honored at the base in north carolina was, quote, probably the worst commanding general in the entire confederate army. he's an interesting guy to name a fort after. >> gene, you kind of, first of all, let's just put the confederacy issue aside. you really can't, they need to rename it. but even if these guys had fought in the french-indian war, they're losers, they lost. i thought donald trump likes winners. they're on the wrong side of history, wrong side morally, and

they lost militarily. >> they weren't any good as generals and they lost the war, and they literally should be confined to the dust bin of history. it's just a -- it has always been the weirdest thing. what other nation names its army bases for the enemy. for traitors who fought against the united states of america. you know, you don't have -- you don't have like fort hitler in france. i mean, it's just, it's ridiculous. and always has been. but it's fascinating that the president's reflex to say, no, never, they're tough guys and this and that, and to think that somehow that's going to be the position that his base wants and he's going to ride that to, you

know -- it's another wedge in the culture war that he can revive when the whole country is saying, no, you know, this is kind of a no brainer. so when you have langford and these other republican senators saying, yeah, it's probably time to get rid of those names. where is donald trump these days? he's inside his own head, i guess. but where is he? he's not paying attention. >> stopped asking. >> the guy is on his own. he is isolated and he's isolating himself from members of the republican party on the issue of race. he's isolating himself from military leaders on the issue of race. he's isolating himself from people in his own cabinet. as america shifts on racism, the "new york times" writes, trump digs in. this is a guy, it's his problem. it's why his polls have dropped

so much, why he's 39% approval rating in a lot of polls, because since this began, he started talking about, you know, shooting people. when the looting starts, the shooting starts. talking about his vicious dogs he was going to sick on protesters. we remember what happened on june the 1st. we'll talk about how general milly apologized yesterday for being there. he is off on his own right now. and for some reason, he is digging in. i do want to talk, david ignatius, about the military's response. we've seen since june the 1st. june the 1st, a bad day for milly, for the sec def. but you're seeing examples of where the military leaders and retired military leaders, generals and admirals, the military standing apart.

and the military, first of all, yes, apologizing for mistakes made on june the 1st, but also a lot of military leaders talking about the importance of independence from politics, all politics. and now, on this issue of confederate names on bases, david once again a moderating influence on donald trump. >> joe, it really is a transformational moment on so many different levels, and the military's forthright statement to the country, we do not want to be dragged into politics, that's -- we have no place being there. american troops should not be called in to suppress demonstrations by american citizens. general milly couldn't have been clearer in that. i found it riveting to see that big guy, looking right at the camera in his graduation speech

online to the national defense university and make an apology, the likes of which i'm not sure i've ever heard. probably show it to viewers. >> david why don't we show it right now. david, we'll show it right now. >> good. >> and you comment on it. let's run it. >> as senior leaders everything you do will be closely watched. and i am not immune. as many of you saw the result of the photograph of me at lafayette square last week, that sparked a national debate about the role of the military in civil society. i should not have been there. my presence in that moment and in that environment created a perception of the military involved in domestic politics, as a commissioned uniformed officer, it was a mistake that i have learned from. >> boy, i tell you what, david. what a great message to every one of those men and women he

was speaking to. and also to troops across the armed services. yes, we all make mistakes. it's how you respond to that mistake that matters. and in this case, general milley, let's take the pictures down, we get the idea, in this case, general milley said, yeah, i crewed up, i screwed up. i screwed up bad. i'm going to make sure it doesn't happen again. a splendid example from the joint chiefs. >> it was extraordinary just to say that boldly. i should not have been standing there. i should not have been doing this. by extension because he's the chairman of the joint chief of staff saying to every single man and woman in uniform, you shouldn't be in any position that compromises your independence. this is not us. he risked getting fired when he

said that. i think general milley has known from the beginning that he had to separate himself from president trump. he was deeply embarrassed, almost ashamed, of having appeared in uniform on that day after the tear gas, walked across the street, and milley knew he'd done the wrong thing and trying to signal first in a message he sent to the troops the next day and consistently arguing to the president, do not send us in. there were troops ready to go into washington, the third infantry regiment had been mobili mobilized. the 82nd airborne had been flown up from fort bragg, ready to go into our streets. and milley and some others stood against that and said this is a mistake, do not do this. here he's taking account of his own mistake, having stood in

uniform. this is symbolic of this is a transformational moment, the military doesn't do this. milley is saying, okay, if you don't like what i'm saying you can fire me, but i'm not going to betray the basic ideals and principles of our military. i'm not going to do it. >> i know a lot of people can look back to june the 1st, and criticize the general for what he did. i'd rather them look at what he did yesterday. because there has been a concern. it's been a quiet concern, but there has been a concern that if donald trump was not re-elected that he would somehow use the military to stay in power. i've always thought that was absurd, and i always said i thought that was absurd because i knew the men and women that ran the armed forces of the united states and have for a quarter century and they would never allow that to happen. that's what we saw yesterday. no man is above the law and no

politician is going to work with the military to actively get them involved in a political campaign. hey, willie, a side note here, as we look at david ignatius' shot, i'm hoping that room raider will take note that if you take out the brother printer, the lighting looks a bit like from a 1960s french existential film. i think he should get a nine out of ten for that. he just walks on through the rain. >> he looks great. >> it is -- >> very good. >> -- a remarkable performance by david despite the fact his lighting is not help him out right now but it will help him on room raider. >> most people would see that lighting as a deduction on room raider. >> what's that, david? >> that sun is coming up here

high above washington d.c. i'll close my curtain in a minute and room raider will be happy. i'm sorry. >> i like it. >> it's mysterious. >> go ahead willie, i'm going to let you segue out of that one. >> i have nothing for french existential film to carol lee talking about general milley. according to people i talked to and you have the piece right now that it's been an agonizing ten or 11 days for general milley he said he was led to believe he was going out to survey the national guard troops outside the white house to shake hands and then he was walked to the church and made a part of the photo-op. what brought him to yesterday morning that he said i should not have be there. >> we knew that he was very

upset about what happened. what we learned is he actually considered resigning over this. he was calling friends and mentors of his that night after this photo-op and essentially talking through what happened. and raising the question of whether this was something he should resign over. he spent a lot of that night looking at social media and news coverage of this and was really distraught over it. defense officials told us that he stayed up most of the night looking through social media and really was taken aback by all of the criticism and a lot of the criticism was public. we also learned he came under a lot of criticism in part because he wore his combat fatigues. a defense official told us what happened on that monday he was on his way to the fbi office, where the command center for monitoring the protest response, and he was wearing his combat fatigues he thought he would be

there for a while. he got called to the white house for the president's rose garden statement. he didn't change, he didn't have a change of clothes in the car. the aide said it didn't make sense to go to the pentagon to get his dress uniform and that's why he appeared in the combat fatigues. we know clearly what's striking about his comments at his commencement address is that he didn't want the next generation and the current military officials to think this was okay. that he felt this was very wrong. now he decided that he wasn't going to resign. one thing we don't know yet is whether the president knew he was going to say this and how the president feels about it. if you look at recent history how upset he was with secretary of defense mark esper for distancing himself about that photo op, but the president has a different relationship with general milley who hasn't been

on the job for a year yet, the president really likes him. so whether he takes the same stance with him that he did with esper remains to be scene. >> there's an extraordinary scene in your story inside the oval office you have the president, vice president, secretary esper there, and attorney general barr along with general milley where the president begins to make the case putting active duty military into the streets of the country and at that point general milley becomes quite animated in making the case against that, according to your reporting. >> yeah, he wasn't alone. it was also the defense secretary and the attorney general who thought that now wasn't the time. he really was adamant about this, according to people we talked to. that just sets the tone for how that day began for general milley, that was a meeting in the morning in the oval office with the president, vice

president, defense secretary, attorney general, other aides and he got very fired up, is how it was described to us, and was shaking his fist at one point to make his point saying this is not okay. this is not what you should do. and ultimately the president backed down for the time being. but -- and the way this president tends to do, i'll hold off for now but i'll do it if you guys don't take care of it. and what ensued was a scramble by the defense secretary and others to get governors to move in national guard troops so the president wouldn't use active duty troops. >> and you have the national guard in there so he wouldn't have to do it. carol lee, thank you very much. mika as you talk about the president sort of standing alone it's a big measure where you are right now that lindsey graham, yes lindsey graham, yesterday said i support general milley, i support his statement in the substance and spirit.

he was right about this. the president was wrong. >> good. >> wanted to read a little bit from that article. the "new york times" writes, whether it's suggesting shooting protesters or sicking dogs on them, defending the confederate names of military installations or arguing that his supporters love the black people, mr. trump increasingly sounds like a cultural relic, detached from not just the left leaning protesters in the streets but also the country's political middle and even some republican allies and his own military leaders. they continue, while mr. trump has a long history of making insensitive and tone-deaf comments on race, including remarks widely seen as racist, he has never appeared more isolated on a dominant social and political moment in the country. hunkered down at the white house, hiding, tweeting conspire theories about injured protesters and describing

demonstrators as thugs. he regularly uses harsh and violent language that no other american leader employs, defending white supremacist and defenders of white supremacist rather than the views of americans at polls. at a time when the country is confronting three overlapping crises. trump's inability to demonstrate empathy illustrates the limitations of his political arsenal. and that lack of empathy, joe, that is predominant in all of these crises, from coronavirus to rational unrest. he just doesn't get it. >> he is so disconnected from the main stream of america and that's now including from the united states military, not only the leaders but the rank and file on these issues. but also, a growing number of evangelicals, certain growing

number of white catholics. if you look at the polls. and, you know, the "new york times" talked about his harsh and violent language, we remember that and played clips of it during the campaign when he talked about he liked the good old days when people got knocked down and take them out on stretchers and if you beat up that guy i'll pay for your legal fees. and, of course, it's continued, but in the middle of these protests. in the middle of this unrest, after the president has seen that his poll numbers have collapsed, talking about shooting people that are protesting, vicious dogs being sicked on people outside of the white house, you would think he would see his poll numbers drop and understand he's got to take a different tact. june the 1st, again, is going to be a day that's going to be --

it's going to be that day, i believe, that historians look back and say, you know, maybe at one point donald trump could have gotten away with shooting somebody on fifth avenue and his supporters would still love him, but he couldn't get away with what he did on june the 1st, clearing out peaceful protesters, lying about it, having his people lie about it, and saying they didn't use chemical agent s on them, beatig people up, beating up our allis' media outlets who were not provoking them at all, all to hold up a bible in a bizarre way that a republican senator said he'd never seen anybody hold the bible that way and he reads the bible that way. and precip tow drop, 39%

approval rating, a 58% disapproval rating. head-to-head matchups, he's losing anywhere from 8 to 12 percentage points. and yes, it's early. but there are a hardening of attitudes around donald trump and he continues to use the harsh and violent language the "new york times" was reporting about in a way that's going to continue to hurt him politically. i must say, even cynically speaking, i don't understand why he keeps doing it. like yesterday. he was actually at a round table with faith leaders and law enforcement officials and small business owners at gateway church in dallas. >> yeah. the president -- >> yeah. no. he praised the national guard. said he admired the ease at which they forcefully cut through the crowds -- >> good lord. >> -- in minneapolis. take a look at this.

>> minneapolis they went through three nights of hell, and then i was insistent on having the national guard go in and do their work, and it was a miracle, it stopped. it's not supposed to be a beautiful scene, but to me it was after you watch policemen running out of a police precinct. but we are proud of the fact i called said i'm sorry we have to have them go in. they went in and it was like a knife cutting butter, right through. i'll never forget you saw the scene, in that city, minneapolis, they were lined up, boom, they just walked straight. and yes, there was some tear gas and probably some other things and the crowd disbursed and they went through. it was a short evening, everything was fine and you didn't hear too much about that location having problems anymore.

>> wow. >> you know, i remember back in december of 2015 when donald trump was talking about muslim bans and muslim registry, i asked is this what germany looked like in 1933. you always have to be careful of course using analogies that line this president up with anybody. so i won't say that the president of the united states saying that it was a beautiful thing, police cutting through marchers like a knife cutting butter, i won't say that's fascist, i will leave that to our viewers to go back in history and see what fascist leaders have said about if anybody said anything similar to it was a beautiful thing like knife cutting through butter. i'll say this, if you can't find

examples of fascist leaders talking about violence against protesters that way, please, your homework assignment for the weekend if you so choose to take it is to find an american president that's ever talked like this. >> but we are very proud of the fact that i called, i said i'm sorry, we have to have them go in. they went in. and it was like a knife cutting butter. right through. i'll never forget. you saw the scene. on that road, wherever it may be in the city, minneapolis. >> so, david ignatius -- >> good lord. >> -- you're going to get the assignment first. have you ever heard of a sitting american president, have you ever heard of a major politician in america, a national politician in america, certainly in the last 20, 30 years,

glorifying police violence against protesters? and saying it was a beautiful thing, it was like a knife cutting through butter? >> he just doesn't understand that he is talking about american citizens who, for the most part, were peacefully demonstrating their rights as citizens. he's just so completely out of touch with that. and the thing, joe, that i find encouraging is that he's out of touch with where most americans seem to be. the language that he's using that you sometimes worry animates his base, animates many millions of people, it just doesn't seem to be working this time. you have nascar, i mean, nascar traditional american institution as you can find saying no more confederate flags, that's it, we've had it. you've had republicans lining up saying we should rename some of the military bases, it's just not right.

i have been interviewing corporate leaders, the president of microsoft yesterday, the ceo of salesforce a couple days before that. hearing how they look at their companies and their thousands of workers and they say we're never going to be the same again. microsoft is thinking how do we invent technology to help citizens hold their police more accountable? we get it. we know america has changed in these months we're a different place. and donald trump, in a way that i've never felt is an outlier. he uses language, as you say, that i can't ever remember a president using language like that. but the point to me more is that other people aren't using it. that he is standing alone. and that should give us encouragement as we head towards november. this isn't popular. america is in a different place than the president right now. >> republicans aren't -- most republicans are not following the president here. they're calling him out. in many cases military leaders,

rank and file military people are as well. and yes, there is -- i can think of no president, i can think of dictators that have glorified violence against protesters but certainly no american president that's ever done that. and willie, again, the president is talking about shooting protesters, sicking vicious dogs on black people who are protesting outside of the white house, or if not specifically black people, certainly for a march for black rights, for civil rights just like bull connor did in birmingham in the 1960s. and now yesterday again at a evangelical church, at an evan gel cal church, talking about

how it was a good thing that the police cut through americans protesting like knife through butter. it might not be beautiful to a lot of people, but it was beautiful to me. >> wow. >> that is, again, something can correct me if i'm wrong, that seems deeply offensive and un-american. maybe there have been examples of other presidents who have spoken that way about american citizens. but like a knife cutting through butter. it's just this is a president increasingly isolated, increasingly alone, and i just don't understand -- i don't understand -- i just don't understand it on so many levels. but again we've always been told that donald trump is playing three dimensional chess. we've always been told he understands the electorate better than everybody else. we've been told he has this gut

instinct that gets him over the finish line. >> aoff. >> i have to say, no, no, no. certainly not in this case. >> for a guy who seemed to understand the electorate and how to win in 2016, using some of his darkest and most cynical impulses to win the election. he doesn't have any sense what's happening in the country right now. gene robinson if you look at where the country is moving right now, the president has always counted on saying something outrageous and letting his people fall in behind him because he's him, he said it. now you have republican senators saying, no, we should rename these bases named for c confederate soldiers. the statue of davis and lee probably should come down. you have military leaders saying no that photo op that you used the military and cleared a plaza

to hold up a bible, wasn't a great idea. there's a new yahoo poll out that showed 52% of americans now support nfl players rights to kneel for the anthem. in 2016 when colin kaepernick did it, that number was 26%. there's something happening in the country right now that is undeniable and the president is flat-footed on it. >> he's more than flat-footed. he's totally clueless. we have to look at the -- the simplest explanation is probably the correct one. this is who he is. it's not an accident that he's using fascist language, it's not. if he were running to be president of the confederate states of america, he'd be doing okay. because only really angry white guys would be eligible to vote. and that's -- he seems to want to -- old white guys.

he seems to want to reduce his constituency to that. and it's not, of course, three dimensional chess, it's not some deep feel for the american electorate. it's that that's his -- this is who we have as president of the united states. no, we've never -- we can't remember a president talking about violence against a law abiding americans in the way that he talked about that, you know, a knife through butter, no, we've never heard that because nobody has ever done that. nobody has ever spoken that way. this is a deeply apparent president in every sense of the word and he is so out of touch with the country. he's made a sermon-like statement about the bases, for example. he came out, we'll never consider renaming the bases. and now his own party is moving

in that direction. yet he basically can't. he's already ruled it out for all time. how is that smart politics? there's nothing smart about it. it's crazy, and awful and maybe it will soon be over. >> a lot more to get to. if you can believe it. coming up, at least one major u.s. city is preparing to reimpose lockdown orders following a spike in coronavirus cases. we'll have that and much more ahead. we'll have that and much more ahead.

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direction, the data shows we are moving in the right direction. as we reopen the basic public health we emphasized remains important. we flattened the curve, that doesn't mean coronavirus has gone away that it's any less contagious or deadly to communities. >> that's the u.s. surgeon general with a warning about the virus and it's playing out in texas where houston officials said they're preparing to reimpose stay-at-home orders and open a hospital at a football stadium after the lone star state had the highest one day tally since the pandemic occurred. we may be approaching the

precipice of a disaster, it's out of our hands right now, the good news is it's not severe out of hand. any plan to reinstate local lockdowns however may hold little legal authority after governor greg abbott issued executive order to reopen the state that super ceded county and municipal efforts. joining us is dr. vin gamble and dr. gupta, he's treated coronavirus patients in washington state and dr. dave, i'll start with you. there are public health experts openly worrying about a second wave. what are you hearing and how big is it going to be compared to the first wave? >>, you know, mika, it's not even a second wave. now we're starting to hear that the first wave never went away and almost half the states in this country are seeing spikes.

the last count i saw was 21, and it's going up regularly. so we're seeing some cities show the highest counts they've had yet. this summer, where we thought the heat would bring some safety, it isn't turning out to be the case. in fact, a lot of the states that are hotter, the states that use air conditioners are seeing spikes in their cases as we speak, mika. >> willie? >> dr. gupta, it's willie, good to have you on this morning. obviously the country has averted its eyes to another issue for a couple of weeks, rightly so but you as a doctor have not been averting your eyes you're watching what's going on with coronavirus, what continues to happen. where are we right now? i think a lot of people think we turned a corner and it may be safe to go back out and resume our lives this summer, but how do you put it? where are we right now?

>> what i would say here is -- you flashed the surgeon general's comments. i'm not sure where he's getting his data, maybe the president or the vice president, but not dr. fauci or dr. birx because the curve isn't flattening in 22 states at least. globally we're seeing alarming findings not far from us, brazil, mexico. and in places like europe, africa and asia. we should be concerned about the global landscape which means one the fall wave is probably going to be an august wave. are we in phase two of the first one? doesn't seem like it really went away. unlike march when there was an appetite to say okay we'll yield to intrusive measures on our lives, we'll not go to work. and the economic attachment that incurred. we don't have that runway

anymore. we don't have the ability to say you have to stay home or mask. governor kemp in georgia saying no more masking in restaurants, made no sense. dr. campbell's point, temperatures is not going to bring a reprieve. i'm about to go to a shift in the icu, arizona icu's are completely packed. that to us is very worrisome here. you add protest, people's lack of appetite to comply with masking anymore, people are getting tired. this is alarming, we're not flattening the curve, the curve is reexpanding and we need to talk about about it, and the surgeon general should be at the tip of the spear not trying to say it's better. >> it's been flattened in some of the hot spots like new york city which got so much of the attention in the early days and weeks of this crisis. so what do we do now? we talked about testing for three months.

that talk has sort of subsided as if testing is readily available to everyone who wants it. is testing still the most important part of the story, dr. gupta, and where are we on testing? >> it's always going to be important and that's a fact of life in a pandemic. i think there's two things we can do upfront, three things rather. i don't think this is ever going to happen at this point. we need the president and the vice president to not undermine the adversaries of the public health world. we have the president about to have a super spreader event in tulsa. the fact he's asking for informed consent of his supporters in a rally where there's no social distancing or masking is egregious. that's what i do before a procedure in the icu because there might be harm but there's benefit. what's the potential benefit to the supporters. we need to stop that, ban political rallies, encourage

masking, make it mandatory, and contact tracing. i'm worried about the ability to scale contact tracing. that requires public trust. i believe in our institutions and leadership, if you don't have it, it doesn't matter if it's it's an app or a human being. that's what we need to focus on, that needs high level leadership. >> i want to extend the question to dr. dave, i know he has the same concerns that dr. gupta has. but there are also political protests taking place around the country and a lot of health officials have expressed concern that the coronavirus can be spread among those protests. so dr. dave, what should people do if they want to participate in these protests or go to a rally to protect themselves. is it possible? >> it is somewhat possible. i think the first thing that they should do is, think

seriously and hard about whether they should go or not. think about whether they have someone at home that's older that has an underlying health condition. think about whether they're a health care worker that has to go back to a clinical area and may have been exposed during a protest or a rally or at a theme park -- theme parks are opening up in florida. so the first thing to do, in my opinion, is think really hard about what you're about to do, and weigh, as dr. gupta said, the risk versus the benefit. and then if you go, wear a mask, don't share your water, your food, try to socially distance. dr. wynn told us how you can make these buddy groups where you have several protesters or friends or family that you're hanging out with anyhow and stick together and try to isolate from others around you as much as possible, 6 feet does not seem to be existing in a protest. and when you're all done with your protests or your theme park

or the rally for president trump, go get tested. get tested so you can know whether you have converted to being positive for the coronavirus so you don't then spread it to others at home or at work or around you, mika. >> doctors vin gupta and dave campbell, thank you both for being on this morning. finally, dave your latest column in "the washington post" is entitled, mike pompeo offers a telling explanation from for why he fired steve linnic. you write, pompeo likes to be the boss and advertises his s g swagger as pompeo likes to say, but he chafes at the essential reality that he is a public servant and linick's duty was to

question him. inspectors general like linick are paid to be meddlesome, they're supposed to be intrusive and sometimes a little disrespectful of authority. cabinet secretaries like pompeo are paid to take the heat and to remember always that they are the servants of the people, not their master. and david, if you could expound upon this, because it seems mike pompeo has -- he doesn't seem to understand his role and this is a confusion that many cabinet secretaries and people who work for trump are struggling with. >> so i said in the lead to that column, mika, that pompeo had made a telling comment in explaining why he fired linick, supposedly the watchdog, the

auditor, the public's representative in effect. and pompeo said, he works for me, he works for me, i'm the head of the agency, and i didn't think he was doing a good job. he doesn't work for the boss. he works for the american people. he is -- these inspectors general are in 80 different agencies to try to make sure that money is not being wasted. that people are not diverting public funds for their own personal use. one of the things that linick has been investigating is whether pompeo used a staff person who was with him in his district office in wichita, kansas from 2010 to 2016, brought her to the cia as chief of protocol, now a senior adviser at the state department. has she sometimes been doing little personal odds and ends, errands, walking the dog for

pompeo. as i say in the column, walking the boss' dog is not a capital crime. it's a petty thing that most cabinet secretaries are smart enough not to do because they know somebody is going to pick up the phone and say, this isn't right. pompeo doesn't seem to understand that. he's got the weakness of this temper, the temper blew on this subject and i think we don't -- we have not heard the end of the tail of the inspector general linick. >> david, thank you very much. coming up when politics collides with public health. one of our next guests ran the cdc and said officials should be willing to quit or be fired when truth is compromised and science is ignored. plus a word of caution from film maker spike lee about the defund the police movement. also we'll talk more about general milley's break with the

white house with combat veteran anthony brown. "morning joe" is back in a moment. y brown. "morning joe" is back in a moment it's a thirteen-hour flight, that's not a weekend trip. fifteen minutes until we board. oh yeah, we gotta take off. you downloaded the td ameritrade mobile app so you can quickly check the markets? yeah, actually i'm taking one last look at my dashboard before we board. excellent. and you have thinkorswim mobile- -so i can finish analyzing the risk on this position. you two are all set. have a great flight. thanks. we'll see ya. ah, they're getting so smart. choose the app that fits your investing style. ♪ that liberty mutual customizes your insurance, i just love hitting the open road and telling people so you only pay for what you need! [squawks] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ frto baking fails...inters... to sweat sessions. even life inside can bring on

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we're going to be stronger than we were when we were riding high, and our stock market is almost, just short, of an all-time high. i've had 144 all-time high stock markets during a three and a half year period, nobody has ever come close to that and we're going to do it again, but it's going to be stronger than last time when i would say that two, three months ago, i've always done well with numbers but i had a feel for it. the other day i was saying i think we're going to have a tremendous next year, it's going to be a phenomenal next year. i thought we would start in august, september, but it started very early. it's an amazing thing.

>> president trump glor fieing the stock market one week ago. yesterday fears of a possible surge in coronavirus cases sent the stock market tumbling, pulling the dow down 1800 points for the worst day since march. the s&p 500 slid 5.9%. while the nasdaq dropped 5.3%. concerns about a second wave of coronavirus has risen as u.s. states push deeper into reopening. top officials believe the economy's recovery from the pandemic fuelled recession will be slow and uneven. >> willie, as you know, we mainly focus on the dog tracks, the dogs, we bet on the dogs, we made that decision a long time ago we would not invest in mutual funds but instead we'd bet on the puppies and try to get a nest egg for our

children's college fund, but even i -- i don't understand how people on wall street could have been surprised in this second we have a -- wave. first of all, the stock market has been continuing to go up despite the fact we've had one epidemiologist and one medical professional after another saying we're just in the second inning of this, we're just in the third inning of this. >> it's the science. >> they woke up yesterday and decided to listen to science and medicine? truly, i don't get it. these numbers have been sort of gravity defying. >> yeah, and first of all, joe, we're playing the long game when we bet the tracks. i know it's been slow lately but look over the horizon, it's going to be fine. trust me, it's going to be fine. the market that the president has hung his hat on, because there's no other economic indicator which to hang his hat

these days given the unemployment and jobs problem in the country plunged yesterday 1,800 points almost 7% the dow was down yesterday. if you're going to put your eggs in the market basket you have to ride the ups and down, tout it on a good day you have to take your lumps on a bad day. but the president was obviously counting on the economy three months ago to carry him to re-election. unemployment was historically low, 50 year low. now he has coronavirus and everything he brought with it and he doesn't have that. so he celebrates the one-day blips of the market but unfortunately for him it can go down the next day and it's not reflective of how a lot of people's lives are going in terms of personal economy. some companies may be doing well one day but too many people do not have jobs and that continues unabated at this moment. >> can i ask you a couple

questions, willie, real quickly. i know premier league soccer is going to be starting up, basketball is going to be starting up. what's the latest with baseball? i hear the owners have been taking a pretty tough stand but i heard the commissioner saying baseball was going to be played this year, what's the latest you heard? >> nascar is back, pga is back this weekend. but baseball is having a tough time because the union has always been tough in all their negotiations, they are again right now. it's a question of how much money people are going to get, how much money the players will get for a prorated season and whether they can pull it off, which is what the nba is trying to do, put these teams in a bubble at disney world for three months and finish the regular

season, and have playoffs, which as a fan sounds fun but can baseball pull it off? you follow the reporters who say there's something on the table that has promising elements, maybe they come to their senses and get some baseball for the country and then you have players union saying we're not willing to cut our salaries. we need baseball right now, we need something, we need a game on the tv at night, and it would be nice if it were the yankees and the red sox. >> it's easy to knock the players, they get plaid x-amount, they're the ones going out there, taking a risk, living in a bubble, they're the ones that make the money for the owners. they're the ones that bring the receipts in. i think most americans would look at a shortened season as positively as they would have looked at a complete season. this year we need baseball. the owners and players need to get together, but the players

obviously are going to be taking the risks, they should be paid for it. >> and they shouldn't, joe, be the only league that's not playing. the nfl is going to do everything it can to come back this fall. college football, the sec they want to be playing by this fall. then you have major league baseball as the only league that couldn't get its act together to come back. and even at the appearance of players not coming back over money in this these times when 44 million americans have lost their jobs, not a good look to say the least for baseball. >> a bad look for the players, owners, and a very boad look fo major league baseball. they need to figure it out. it's small compared to everything else going on out there but i'm thinking people on both sides of the political divide would like a break from everything that's going on right now and have a few hours to watch baseball and the nba, and

watch other sporting events. >> if you sign on the dotted line, you can go to a trump rally and have a break. >> there's a problem with that. >> there is? >> yeah, you sign on the dotted line, you say, i'd like to go to the trump rally -- >> yeah. >> -- but i understand the trump campaign is telling me i could get really sick and die from it. i could get covid-19 -- >> right. >> -- and i'm going to wave any lawsuits i have against them them it'll be my fault if i make that decision. >> okay. so we'll get to that. a lot going on on this friday. we have "the washington post's" eugene robinson. alease jordan. and white house correspondent yamiche al cinder. and former senior adviser for the house oversight and government reform committee curt bardella, a "morning joe"

contributor. >> we're talking about the trump rally and, of course, people have the right to go to a rally inside if they want to. i think there are a lot of trump people saying if all these protesters can go out in the streets, why can't donald trump have rallies inside a building. that's a good question. in fact, we're concerned and have been very concerned about the rallies in the streets. very concerned about the people who aren't wearing masks, very concerned about the lack of social distancing and a lot of public health officials said that's going to cause a spike in the coronavirus. we'll say it now like we've been saying it for months. this virus is a killer. and it doesn't care whether you're a republican, a democrat, a conservative, liberal, white, black, hispanic, asian-american. doesn't matter what you are, it will kill you if you come into contact with it. and you have an underlying condition or sometimes even if you don't have an underlying condition. so the mere fact that some

people may have taken health care risks in the street doesn't seem to be a good justification to take more health care risks inside an auditorium but again it's a free country if people want to do it, they can do it. donald trump has told them, you can get covid-19 by doing that. and if you do get covid-19 by doing that, that's your problem, not ours. >> here's what we pointed out in our last hour. here's the disclaimer on the trump campaign website to register for the rally next week in tulsa around concerns for the coronavirus. here's where it says by clicking register below you're acknowledging that an inherent risk of exposure to covid-19 exists in any public place where people are present. by atending the rally you and a guest sol untaurly assume all risks to exposure to covid-19 and agree not to hold donald trump for president inc.ing, bok center, or any of their

affiliates, divisions, agents, officers or employees liable for injury. come to the rally, sign the waiver and if you get covid-19 it's not our fault. that's what they're asking attendees to say. meanwhile, issues around the date of the rally. they're calling on him to change the date from the day that marks the end of slavery, juneteenth. two campaign officials say the campaign knew of the historical context behind the date but are not considering changing it. here's how the white house press secretary responded yesterday. >> the african-american community is very near and dear to his heart. at these rallies he shares the great work he has done for minority communities. he's working on rectifying injustices. injustices that go back to the

beginning of this country's history. so it's a meaningful day to him. it's a day he wants to share some of the progress that's been made as we look forward and more that needs to be done especially as we're looking at this police reform. >> so not only is juneteenth, the date considered offensive but the location is as well, tulsa, oklahoma. in 1921 it was the site of a fiery orchestrated white on black massacre that killed as many as 300 people in that city. so yamiche, i know you've been reporting out the story, jonathan lemire in his story saying the white house knew it was juneteenth. some said maybe considering this group they didn't know what juneteenth is or the meaning of it to people in this country, but the reporting is they didn't know and didn't imagine it was going to be a problem for so many people. >> this is a historic day for

america, not just the african-american community, juneteenth is the day we decided to start the march toward the idea that all americans are equal. when we think about juneteenth and the end of slavery and what that means to america and then the president is going to be gathering with likely an all majority white crowd in tulsa, oklahoma. it seems the optics to a president who cares about the optics that the optics would have been seen as bad. i've been talking to officials they didn't expect this backlash. they also, of course, were eager to have the president return to the campaign trail. he's been eager to get back to the settings he can go on for a long period of time, be around the crowds that can love him and cheer him. this is a community that was called the black wall street. this is a community where white americans decided they didn't like the fact that black people

had wealth and happiness and peace, and as a result they burned it to the ground and terrified black people out of their homes. that's what president trump is going into when he goes into tulsa, oklahoma. so i cannot imagine this is something that's going to be rife with protests and tension. i know the president often says he wants to be an ally to the african-american community. i think this complicates even further. the outreach he's trying to do to african-americans who already don't trust him and think he's racist because of the plethora of things he's done in the past. i think the white house is still feeling good about this, the president doesn't want to be seen as backing down from critics and criticism but i think this is a tough one because he has to continue to explain why he wanted to do this on juneteenth which is not just a holiday for african-americans, it's a holiday for america. and then on the site of this massacre, one of the worst

moments of racial violence in our country. >> he's incredibly out of step with where the country is. it's becoming increasingly clear. >> and there's a "new york times" article that talks about how the president is so out of touch with where -- not just democrats are and liberals are but independents and republicans and people in the military are. the "new york times" this morning wrote whether it was suggesting shooting protesters or sicking vicious dogs on them, pre-emptivety defending confederate names of military installations, arguing his people love the black people. he seems detached not just from left wing but also the middle and some republican allies and his very own military leaders. mr. trump has a long history of making insensitive and tone-deaf comments on race, including

remarks seen as racist, lehas never appeared more isolated on a dominant social and political moment in the country. hunkered down at the white house, tweeting conspiracy theories and describing demonstrators as thugs. he uses harsh and violent language that no other american leader employees. vocally supporting the views of whyte nationalists and defending white supremacy at a time when the country is confronting three overlapping crisis. trump's inability to demonstrate empathy illustrates the limitations of trump campaign's arsenal. i don't want to get too deep into this, but i always said that donald trump, because he had been a democrat for a good bit of his life and spent a great deal of his life giving one check after another to hillary clinton, to chuck

schumer, holding fund-raisers for chuck schumer, anthony weiner, kamala harris, you name it, he constantly was writing democrats checks then he decided to be a republican. i thought he was playing the cartoon equivalent of a republican. i remember writing in february 2016 in "the washington post" column, trump's denial of knowing who david duke was, and his refusal on a sunday show to criticize the ku klux klan, claiming he had no knowledge of them, i remember writing in that column and saying on the air the next day, he thinks that's what southerns want, because this was right before super tuesday. i said southerners aren't that stupid. they know the klan is bad. he played to the lowest common denominator and i'll be damned, it worked.

i was wrong, it worked. but it doesn't appear to be working anymore. >> joe, i was thinking about it this morning, there have been so many racist episodes that it's just beyond baked in, even if you really like donald trump. you know that he's a racist. and it's a side of him that's just embarrassing, even if you forgive a lot of his other many sins. think about how many moments we have been drawn into this discussion about race that the country is just in a different place on. do you remember last summer, i was calling it trump's racest august when he was telling congressional members to go home. there have just been too many incidents at this point. even separate from i mean, good

lord charlottesville and what went down there, saying there were good people. it always has upset me that donald trump goes to, say, alabama and then he really panders and tries to torque up the super racists. and i'm really heartened by how the country is responding. and how even on the right it is just not cool to be a racist anymore and people do not want to have that label attached to themselves and to their leaders. and donald trump is so painfully out of step with the country on this one. >> and southerns also, i think a lot of snsoutherners, grew up lg at the confederate flag throughout the '80s and '90s,

didn't really think much of it, i just didn't. dwru up with it around. probably every elementary and middle school i went to in mississippi, probably saw it in georgia, and northwest florida, but yet you go to six flags over georgia and one of the flags was the confederate flags you didn't think about it, pensacola, the city of five flags you see the battle flag, i think pensacola changed that flag a long time ago. but i didn't think about it that much. i didn't think about robert e. lee. we can admit it. people revered robert e. lee in the south. we talked about him as a southern gentleman. west point, i was talking about the conversation several years ago, we learned about what robert e. lee did and he was admired as a military general, that was probably a mistake. i'm not saying you did. i had blind spots, a lot of

people had blind spots. but those blind spots are gone now. and we shouldn't have been blind to it. i shouldn't have been as blind to it for as long as i was. but the fact is, the world has changed. we understand, most of my friends in the south understand that now. but that's a memo that donald trump hasn't gotten. >> well, in the aftermath of george floyd's tragic death, i was on the phone with my little niece who's in first grade, and she started telling me, well, i just don't understand why people are still so mean. they were supposed to stop being mean after martin luther king said to stop it and knock it off. and she proceeded to tell me all about martin luther king and told me a little bit about rosa parks too. my mind was blown because growing up in mississippi, i certainly was not being taught

about martin luther king and rosa parks in first grade. i saw that as such progress that a younger generation really is being taught in a different way. i remember going to ole miss football games and the confederate flags would be waving and you hear dixie playing, now that's not happening. the mississippi state flag, which is a confederate flag unfortunately and it's embarrassing and the state voted to keep it in 2001, and i think if there was another vote today we would finally get rid of that awful flag that's a vestige of a past that we need to apologize and completely move on from and disavow. >> curt, you know some changes are happening in american popular culture. and in american popular culture that has a strong foothold in the south, whether we're talking about nascar, which is beloved of course not just in our region but also across the entire

country and in country music, you sent me -- you sent me a text yesterday that had the press release from lady ant b l antebellum and what a remarkable statement that group was making. tell us about it and tell us as a guy that, man, you're -- you know, you are -- you have your feet in the country music scene as much as anybody. talk about the significance of this not only on country music but also american popular culture. >> it's really something. one of the most successful groups in all of music. lady antebellum announced they were taking away the antebellum from their name and be lady a.

they too said they had their blind spots and nothing was intended to cause harsh and anguish on the term antebellum, they were not aware of historical connotations and with recent events they've been looking at it, talking to friends about what this means, what the connotation is, and they made the forward thinking decision to announce publically they're going to change their name and openly apologize for anyone who may have felt offended or distanced from their music because of that name. we're seeing with nascar banning the use of the confederate flag at any of their venues going forward. you talked about how donald trump tries to play the lowest common denominator and make this play for a caricature of what a conservative republican in the south is, and yet these iconic

culture significant places like nascar and country music are moving so much faster and quicker beyond where trump and some of their party is today. that's where he should be taking his cues, if anything, to see how out of step he is. when you lost the nascar you audience, the country music audience, there's something much bigger and broader going on in the country and it illustrates how much of a relic he looks like. it's been fascinating the last few weeks watching the conversation happen in the country music, people think of the dixie chicks and what's when you speak out against republican values, but that's not happening today. you have music labels contributing hundreds of millions of dollars to social justice causes. you have one of the only black music singers putting out a song

black like me talking about walking through this word as a black woman. things are changing and evolving. last year we had two black artists top the charts back-to-back weeks for the first time ever that happened. so when country music and nascar are going a certain way and donald trump is going the other, you have to question what the longevity is of donald trump and the republican party. >> gene robinson, you're a son of the south, i'm fascinated by your perspective as we watch culture move so quickly. we have nascar, confederate flags everywhere you look, nascar saying confederate flags no longer welcome in our sport. you have lebron james and a group of prominent athletes talking about voter rights and voter suppression and a group they started this week.

it's happening in country music. the president is way behind all of this. what do you think as you watch this happening culturally, as you watch statues fall, the state of virginia after 130 years say we're no longer going to have robert e. lee's statue up. what's your personal point of view as a son of the south watching these changes happen so fast? >> i'm a southern like joe and eli elise, but my experience with the confederate flag was quite different. i noticed it all the time and it was a symbol of white supremacy, pure and simple. that's what it meant. and it was used aggressively to transmit that meaning to black folks across the south when i was a kid. and so, you know, i -- we

wouldn't -- when we go to atlanta, we'd never go to stone mountain because of the carved confederate memorial on it. and, of course, there were roads in south carolina that my father wouldn't drive down in any circumstances because it was -- that was known as klan country. so this is potentially a transformational moment, i think. i have -- i'm not under a lot of illusions. i'm not under the illusion that every nascar fan is going to cheer and appreciate the ban on the confederate flag, not every single one. i'm not under the illusion that every lady a. fan is going to -- is going to react positively to the name change and i realize that some maybe will say they're just being politically correct and try to go all dixie chicks

on them. but the fact that, you know, established -- such established stars in the country music would make that decision, the fact that nascar, as an enterprise, would make that decision, i think really does indicate that the country is in a different place. so why would a politician, why would a president, in this moment, go straight for the old-school white supremacy? why would any smart politician do that? and i don't think any smart politician would. i think -- and you have to look for the simplest possible explanation. this is something at the core of donald trump. this is something he -- this is his instinct. this is what he believes. it's not what the polls are telling him. >> you know, gene -- >> it's something coming from inside of him. >> gene, i'm wondering, alex

said in my ear, maybe it's changing because of all the things donald trump has done. the ugliness of charlottesville and how he reacted. that column i was talking about donald trump pretending he didn't know who david duke was, and pretending he didn't know what the klan was. after charlottesville there was a poll that was taken, i think it was pew who took the poll and said white americans were far more sensitive to racism than they had been before because i think a lot of people like me believed we had this belief that things continually got better from '63 forward through the '64 and '65 civil rights and voting rights act, from barack obama being elected in 2008 if we're the only country in the world that's predominantly white that elected a black leader, the arc of civilization is forever

moving upward, bending towards justice as martin luther king likes to say. and then donald trump got elected and i think a lot of us were exposed to have harsh reality -- i'm talking about myself. let me talk about myself. i was wrong. this country had not moved forward in the way i thought it had. i wonder if that pew poll from a few years ago that is revealing now, it has been donald trump's insensitivity on issues of race that have forced people like myself and others to understand what you've understand every day of your life, that america is not as far along on race issues as we believed it was. >> right. look, i think there are other contributing factors. you know, the moment we're in right now, this heightened moment, is because of the cell phone video of what happened to george floyd and that policeman's knee on his neck.

and to see that for eight minutes and 46 seconds, you cannot look away. you know, you cannot not feel deeply about that. so things like that have been effective. but you're onto something because the one thing that donald trump knows how to do in politics is drive wedges. that's how he got elected in 2016. that's his -- that's the only thing he can do. and so, he -- you know, he's driving the wedge again but he's driven the wedge in such a way that he's forced a whole lot of people, who otherwise might support some of his other policies, he's driven them to the other side because they don't want to be on the white supremacy confederate states of america side of the wedge. they want to be on the other side. and so, the more he forces people to make that choice, i

think, it's possible that the deeper he'll get himself in political trouble. i mean, it's, drive the wedge, that's what he's doing. >> yamiche, then there's the rnc picking jacksonville, florida for the convention and the date and all the questions pertaining to that. can you tell us about it? >> yeah, so the president is going to be delivering this speech, accepting the nomination of the republican party on august 27th, that coincides with the anniversary of ax handle saturday. that is an anniversary where the cue cluksz clklu klux klan, it' organized a mob that attacked peaceful protesters and chased them through the streets. they started chasing the protesters they thenback began to attack and beat any african-american in sight. so we have the president

delivering the speech for his party, the republican party, on the same day that african-americans all over the country but especially in jacksonville, florida are going to be reminded of all african-americans had to do to get the same rights or ask for the same rights as white people. so i think the president is reminding america just how terrible things were. of course, we're in a moment of reckoning where people are thinking through all the things that african-americans have to face today. i think what he's doing by going to tulsa, jacksonville, it's reminding us that black people have been under attack for a very long time. since the beginning they were brought to this country. and they've been the victims of domestic terrorism, that's what racial violence is in america, it's domestic terrorism, racial terrorism. and while he's giving that speech people are going to be thinking about the domestic terrorism in jacksonville, florida when these people were protesting their rights.

so now we see peaceful protesters coming under fire and facing violence from the police, myself included, when you have gas pushed on them, rubber bullets shot at americans protesting for their rights. >> yamiche live for us at the white house, thank you. and curt bardella. thank you. coming up, quarrel between trump and military leaders intensifies as milley apologizes for photo op. defying trump, senate panel moves to strip military bases of confederate names. and seattle mayor slams trump's threat to send military. we'll talk to combat vet anthony brown next on "morning joe." any brown next on "morning joe." effortless is the lincoln way.

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as senior leaders, everything you do will be closely watched. and i am not immune. as many of you saw the photograph of me at lafayette square last week, that sparked a national debate about the role of military in civil society, i should not have been there. my presence in that moment and environment created a perception of the military involved in domestic politics. as a commissioned uniformed officer it was a mistake that i have learned from. >> that's -- boy. >> the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff general mark milley with that apology for the controversial photograph in front of st. john's church. joining us democratic anthony brown of maryland, a veteran of the iraq war and a recipient of the bronze star. >> congressman, thank you for being with us.

i know you understand the culture of the military extremely well. i just -- curious what your thoughts are hearing the chairman of the joint chiefs saying to everybody, i too am accountable. i should not have been there. it was a mistake. how important was that message for the general to send out and what do you think the positive outcome of that will be in the long run? >> good morning, joe and mika, thanks for having me on. i think it was a very important statement that general milley made. and it could have been avoided because of circumstances underlying the need for the statement was avoidable. and i attribute that in large part to the fact that president trump simply doesn't understand the military. he doesn't understand the role or the relationship between

america's military and america's society, how we regard our military, how they need to keep a distance from domestic politics. so while i commend general milley for stepping up and taking responsibility, we need more leaders to do that, he never should have been in that position in the first place, he understands that, acknowledges that and a lot of think, though, i think lies at the feet of the commander in chief who is quite frankly, an inept commander in chief and that's donald trump. >> well, i -- just two questions come to mind watching that apologize, which is in many ways staggering. i try to wonder and i wonder what your concerns might be about the position this general was in in the run up to that photo op. what led to that fateful decision, really. and then the position he was in after with his peers in the

military for doing it. sure. you know, a recounting of events suggest that general milley was at the white house and in washington for a very legitimate reason and found himself swept up with the president as he brought an entourage to lafayette plaza for a photo op. general milley was probably able to avoid the grossest photo off as secretary esper stood next to president trump with the bible. but general milley understood he should not have been in the vicinity of lafayette park. it does damage to the military. and his statement today -- or i should say yesterday was very important, particularly to the men and women in uniform, to remind them we are not loyal or beholden to a president, nor the man or woman who holds that office. we are loyal to the

constitution, the value that it embodies and this nation and the nation's people. that's first and foremost and i think general milley articulated that very well in his statement yesterday. >> congresswoman brown, it's willie geist. i want to ask you about the bipartisan legislation that you have introduced to rename united states military bases that have been named for confederate generals, leaders, i know you served time at fort hood, that base is named for a lieutenant in the confederate army, john bell hood, what is your position? how do you articulate your opposition to these names which is obvious to some why they should be changed but not to everyone, and just on a personal level what it was like for you as a soldier to walk into a base knowing it had been named for a confederate leader who sought to maintain the institution of slavery? >> willie, i got my start at

fort rut ger, alabama, named after a confederate general. i learned how to jump out of airplanes at fort benning. i deployed to iraq out of fort bragg and i've been to fort hood on countless occasions. this is my response. no one is trying to rewrite history. you're going to hear the stories of the confederacy and soldiers in history books. but there's no need to honor the people or the symbols of an institution or individuals that defended the institution of slavery. the army has ten military installations, the navy has one naval vessels. there's countless roads and buildings that honor and pay tribute to confederate soldiers. we can eliminate that without erasing the history of this country. by eliminating that i think we

demonstrate respect to what it means for african-americans, african-americans who put on that uniform, and how the confederacy is a symbol of hatred, racism, whose wounds continue to run deep throughout this country. so it's long overdue. i want to thank representative don bacon, who served as a general in the united states air force, a republican, who is a co- so -- co-sponsor. a lead co-sponsor of the bill. >> i want to ask about the push for police reform, legislation working its way through congress and also the concept of defunding the police. oscar winning director spike lee is concerned that the defund the police movement will have adverse effects with president trump perverting the message to

stoke fear. lee told al roker, quote, activists have to be careful with the words, because already this guy is running with that. you know the guy i'm talking about, agent orange. and again, he's trying to twist the narrative like he did with kaepernick and the kneeling. trying to say that was about disrespecting the flag, but that wasn't it at all. spike lee continued we've got to be careful what we say because one or two wrong words they'll twist things around, the narratives change. i don't think people are saying we don't need police at all, but defund the police, i think there could be a better terminology. what do you think? >> i completely agree with spike lee as do many of my colleagues. perhaps the overwhelming majority in congress. it's not about defunding the police, it's about reimagining or transforming the police. i think we can acknowledge that racism and systemic racism

pervades most -- many certainly police departments across this country. we need to transform these police departments. could that involve restructuring? yes. certainly it involves holding police accountable. and that's where the justice in policing act that we introduced earlier this week goes after. it is includes prohibiting certain conduct that we know is lethal and dangerous and unnecessary. like the chokehold, and other neck restraints, requiring the use of body camera, empowering investigators to do pattern and practice investigations and to reduce and eliminate the barriers to prosecuting bad cops and allowing people harmed by bad cops to seek redress and compensation in the courts. so there are many things we need to do. but i think we should also acknowledge that the protesters and those calling for defunding

the police are certainly onto something. that is we need to make greater investments in the community. whether it's homelessness and poverty, whether it's addressing mental health needs unmet today in communities across the country or alcohol and drug abuse addiction and counseling. these types of investments need to happen, but they can happen without defunding the police. we need to reimagine the police, transform the police but we need police not as warriors in the community but as protectors and guardians in the community. >> congressman anthony brown thank you very much for being on the show this morning. back now to coronavirus, health officials in florida and south carolina say that both states have shattered their single day case records since the outbreak began. in florida, more than 1,600 new cases were confirmed yesterday, nearly a 20% increase from the state's previous high last week.

south carolina also recorded more than 600 new cases, surpassing its previous high set just three days earlier. joining us now, dr. richard b z besser. a former acting director of the cdc and appointmented by new jersey governor phil murphy to a board for reopening. and he had an op-ed entitled we ran the cdc, here's how to talk to the public. doctor besser, if you could please talk to the public about the health dry scrisis and tell where we stand with it. what is the science telling us? >> it's clear we're in early days of the pandemic, i don't think that's being communicated enough. as we see numbers going up in some states and going down in

others. we have to reflect that so much of that has to do with the behaviors we're taking or not taking. you see states putting out road maps of going from phase one to two to three, that call for more and more be seen as a two-way street. states are going to try things. they're going to get people back to work hopefully in safe ways. but if it's not working or they see a rise, that means that you have to back stab, you have to go back to more social distancing. and one of my biggest concerns, mika, is states aren't looking hard enough at the impact on black communities, latino communities, low income workers. and if they're not collecting data to be looking at that, there could be increases occurring that they're not seeing that could lead to outbreaks and more devastation in the communities that have been hit hardest by the pandemic and the economic crisis. >> yeah. and i want alesse jordan to jump

in, but is there any way of avoiding the hard deaths, the potential death toll in the months to come? >> when you look at that, it's not a crystal ball. what we decide to do or not do is going to influence in a great way what those numbers look like. so if we decide to take this seriously, if we all go outside and wear masks, especially if we're indoors and washing our hands and social distancing, that will impact what that number is. those who tend to suffer the most are those who are most marginalized in our society. >> dr. beser, are you hopeful at all that the part son divide about public health is going to

mend? that's what i'm worried about. it seems so intractable right now and people have essentially given up on social distancing. and it would seem, if we have a second wave, it would seem incredibly difficult and politically unpalatable the convince the public to buy into that. >> it's one of the big challenges. when dr. copeland and i wrote that piece, you need to get the american people all on the same page about this. and there is a big divide now. we're not talking about months here. this could go on for years. so there is an opportunity to recalibrate.

here in new jersey, there's a laser focus on ensuring that communities of color, that lower income communities are being looked at as much as possible, that testing is increasing. as we're seeing protests on the street, encouraging protesters to wear mask and social distancing, increasing testing in communities where protests are taking place so that if there is an increase in cases, you can do that public health work to ensure that one case doesn't lead to a clustory an outbreak, that people have safe place toes isolate or quarantine so they're not having to bring disease home to their loved ones who may be elderly or have medical conditions. we still have the opportunity to chart ur course and decide what will the pandemic look like in america for all people in america. >> dr. beser, it's willie geist. i think you probably see this anecdotally and the instincts of humans to be social is taking

over, especially now that schools are getting out and it's summertime. people are saying, you know what? coronavirus, i gave you three years of my life. we're going to have barbecues. i think there is some sense because in those early hot spots like in new jersey and new york city that the situation has been tampered that maybe it's time for life to move on. so what is your message? what is your mussage to the people about how they should be going about their lives this summer? >> the message can't be the same for every state, for every community. in new jersey where the numbers are coming down, that is the time to start to loosen things up. we're learning. as we learn more about the virus, we're learning that

outdoor activities are safer. you still want to keep that social distance. by it's much safetory be out in your backyard with the barbecue than you are to be outside cooking in a kitchen. and it's looking like there isn't as much transmission taking place. making sure that the recommendations that are being given are recommendations that all people can follow. as people are going back to work, making sure that all workers are safe. low income workers are the ones who are just making ends meet. if you don't have enforceable workplace standards, they're going to get hit the hardest.

coming up, dr. jeffrey sachs on this current economic recession and the prospects for a recovery. plus, the trump campaign tells supporters to come to its upcoming rally in tulsa, but says they can't sue them if they get coronavirus while they're at the rally. we'll have the new campaign disclaimer. "morning joe" is coming right back. disclaimer "morning joe" is coming right back are you a weirdo?

[ scoffs ] the weirdest. you make everyone around you crazy. people are normal then they hang out with you and then they're jack nicholson in "the shining". i'm gonna tell my mom you tried to drown me. it's an above ground pool! you're like eight feet tall!

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even dr. king's assassination did not have the worldwide impact that george floyd's death did. it was just like television changed the civil rights movement for the purpose better when they saw beau connor and his dogs ripping the clothes off elderly black women going to church and fire hoses ripping the skin off of young kids 37 all those folks around the country who didn't have any black populations heard about this, but they didn't believe it. when they saw it, it was impossible to close their eyes. now with george floyd, you've got so many people around the country? millions of cell phones. it's change the way people are looking at this. so my point is, i think people

are really realizing that this is a battle for the soul of america. >> americans are good and virtuous people. we have to work together to confront bigotry and prejudice wherever they appear, but we'll make no progress and heal no wounds by falsely labelling tens of millions of decent americans as racist or bigots. we have to get everybody together. we have to be in the same path, i think, pastor. if we don't do that, we'll have problems. and we'll do it easily and it will go quickly and very easily. >> president trump and joe biden both speaking yesterday about batting racism. >> it will go quickly and easily? >> like the coronavirus. >> this is a guy who is badly out of step, even with his own republican party. >> the country.

>> well, with the country. the renaming of bases which the military is willing to do. donald trump is standing alone more and more every single day on this issue of race, a relic from a different age as the new york time writes this morning. >> it is friday, june 12th. david ignatius is with us, eugene, carol lie at the white house. so much to get to this morning. >> you know, willie, do you want to go to a rally? would you like to go to a rally right now? like let's go to a rally. i want to crowd in with a lot of

people inside. i want to do that. and if you want to go to a trump rally, donald trump, he's so cool, he goes to -- he goes to a plant in maine where they're making swabs and he doesn't wear a mask because he thinks that cool. of course, they have to destroy all the work they were doing for testing because he didn't wear it. and then you remember mark meadows a couple of days ago saying y'all sure do look funny in your masks. greg sherman said, yeah, because we don't want to die. y'all sure look funny in your masks. it's this fake match yao bs they're trying to pull off. but donald trump, when the rubber meets the road, when it has to do with the bottom line, when it has to do with donald

trump's money, suddenly he believes in science. i've seen the light, i've seen the light. praise the lord, i've seen the light. the message on the campaign website for re-elect donald trump, commander in chief without a mask, says this. if you want to register for his rally in tulsa, by clicking below, you are acknowledging annen harnt risk of exposure to covid-19 exists in any place where people are ready. you and your guests voluntarily assume all risks related to covid-19 and you agree not to hold -- you agree not to hold -- you agree not to hold donald j. trump for president inc or the stadium, its employees, volunteers, etcetera, liable for

any illness or injury. there is another way they could have written this and i tried to help them out with a succinct tweet, willie, and it goes something like this. come to our rally. p.s., it could kill you, but that's your problem. >> wow. wow. >> oh, my gosh. where to begin with that? that was a stunning reading, by the way. very dramatic. well done. >> i'll barely go to the produce aisle at stop and shop so i don't want to go to a packed rally given the state of this arena right now. as you like to say, it's time to rock the bach. they have canceled concerts well into july, deep into july.

those have all been postponed because of coronavirus because they don't want people packed into their arena. the president is not going to cancel this rally given everything swirling around it, even given the coronavirus. so instead of canceling it, they put a disclaimer at the bottom of their website that says, if you walk through those doors, you are signing away any right to sue us, to sue the arena, to sue anybody else if you come down with coronavirus from being inside a packed arena. extraordinary. >> seriously, the hypocrisy there. they do this fake macho thing. i never realized denying science was macho, but they do this fake macho thing denying medicine, you know? and then when push comes to

shove, y'all sure do look funny in your masks. donald trump trying to be macho while being the only person not wearing a mask where they're trying to get enough swabs, they have to destroy all that. but when push comes to shove, when the rubber meets the road, when it has to do with donald trump's money, he's saying, hey, you know, coming to my rally could kill you. and if you come to my rally, i'm not responsible. sign right here. >> and not my problem. if you pay attention to me and do as i say, and do, of course, you don't have to secret service around you all the time and you're not being tested regularly for covid-19. so you're not in the bubble i'm in. so i'm not particularly worried.

but all you, my loyal base, my great american people, you just might die if you come to my rally. and so don't sue me. you cannot make this stuff up, joe. >> you really can't make it up. i thought it was a joke when i saw it. >> this is unbelievable. make america great again, but try not to die while you're doing it. >> no, it's #make america great again but it might kill you. >> you mentioned the article that talks about trump being severely out of step with the rest of the country. >> an effort to remove the names of military leaders from military bases is gaining

support on both sides of the aisle. the republican-controlled senate armed services committee has adopted an amendment proposed by senator elizabeth warren that requires the department of defense rename military bases named after confederate generals. president trump criticized the measure yesterday, tweeting, of course, about elizabeth warren calling her pocahontas saying she just introduced an amendment of renaming many of our legendary military bases from which we train to win world world wars. hopefully our great republican senators won't fall for this. is that a threat? but on capitol hill, a number of senators said they were open to renaming bases. >> i think we ought to try to rewrite history. i think it's always appropriate to review the people and the places that we honor to see if they fit the context of the

times in which we live. >> i think we should look long on what that means. >> the message is if we're going to have bases throughout the united states, i think it should be with the names of individuals who fought for our country. we don't want to forget what's happened in the past, but at the same time, that doesn't mean that we should continue with those bases. with the names of individuals who fought against our country. >> republican senator roy blunt said yesterday that he had no problem changing names of military bases. he told reporters, quote, if you want to continue to name forts after soldiers, there have been a lot of great soldiers who have come along since the civil war. the senator noted that braxton

brag who was honored at the sprawling base in north carolina was, quote, probably the worst commanding general in the entire confederate army. he's an interesting guy to name a force after. >> yeah. gene, first of all, let's put the confederacy issue aside. even if these guys had fought until the french indian war, they're losers. they are t wrong side of history. they are on the wrong side morally and they lost militarily. >> yeah. they weren't any good as generals and they lost the war and they literally should be confined to the dust bin of history. it is just a -- it has always been the weirdest thing. what our nation names its army

bases for traitors who fought against the united states of america? you know, you don't have, like, you know, fort hitler in france. it's ridiculous and always has been. but it's fascinating, the president's reflex to say no, never. they're tough guys and this and that. but to think somehow that's going to be the position that his base wants, and it's another wedge in the culture war when the whole country is saying, no, you know, this is kind of a no-brainer. so when you have langford and these other republican senators saying, yeah, it's probably time to get rid of those names, where is donald trump these days?

where is -- he's inside his own head, i guess. but that -- where is he? he's not paying attention. still ahead, a stunning apology from the country's top military official. we'll show you the latest in a string of rebukes to the president by members of the armed forces. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ht back. no uh uh, no way come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card. ♪

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welcome back. the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, general mark milley, says he regrets his role in the president's controversial june 1st photo-op in front of st. john's church. the general addressed the incident in a prerecorded message to graduates of the national defense university. >> senior leaders, everything you do will be closely watched.

my presence in that moment and in that environment created a perception of the military involved in domestic politics. as a commissioned uniformed officer, it was a mistake that i learned from. >> boy, i'll tell you what, david. what a great message to every one of those men and women he was speaking to. and also to troops across the armed services. with all make mistakes. it's how you respond to that mistake that matters. in this case, general milley said, yeah, i screwed up. i screwed up bad and you know what? i'm here to tell you about it. and i'm going to make sure it doesn't happen again. a pollen did example from the chairman of the joint chiefs.

>> it was extraordinary just to say that boldly. i should not have been standing there. i should not have been doing the this. and by extension, because he's the chairman of joint chiefs of staff, he's the senior military leader saying to every single man and woman in uniform, you shouldn't be in any position that compromises your independence. this is not us. risked getting fired when he said that. he was deeply embarrassed, almost ashamed of having appeared in uniform on that day after the teargas, walked across the street, he knew he had done the wrong thing. a sent out a message to the troops the next day and consistently arguing with the president do not send us in. there were troops ready to go

in, the 82nd airborne had been flown up from ft. bragg to ft. belvar ready to go into our streets. and milley and some others stood against that and said this is a mistake. do not do this. here he is finally taking account of his own mistakes, having appeared in uniform. and i think it's symbolic of a transitional moment. the military doesn't do that. milley is saying if you don't like what i'm doing, you can fire me, but i am not going to betray the principles of our military. and up next, general milley considered resigning over his role in the incident. "morning joe" is back in a moment. e incident "morning joe" is back in a moment effortless is the lincoln way.

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welcome back. we've been talking about the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, general mark milley who says he regrets his participation in president trump's controversial photo-op at a washington church. carol lee is at the white house. carol, what can you tell us? >> what we've learned is that he actually considered resigning over this. he was calling friends and mentors of his that night after this photo-op and essentially talking through what happens.

and raising the question of whether this was something that he should resign over. he spent a lot of that night looking at social media and news coverage of this and was really distraught over it. defense officials told us that he stayed up most of the night looking through social media and was taken aback by some of the criticism. a lot of the criticism was public. he came under a lot of criticism in part because he wore his combat fatigues. a defense official tells us what happened on that monday was he was on his way to the fbi office where the command center for monitoring the protest response and he was wearing his combat fatigues. he thought he would be there for a while. he got called to the white house for the president's rose garden statement and he didn't change. he didn't have a change of clothes in the car. the aides said it didn't make sense for him to go back to the

pentagon to get his dress uniform and that's why he appeared in those combat fatigues. but we know that he clearly was striking about his comments about his commencement address is that he didn't want the next generation and the current military officials to think that this was okay, that he felt that this was very wrong. he decided that he wasn't going on resign. one thing we don't know is whether the president knew he was going to say this and how the president feels about it. i think if you look at recent history, how upset he was with mark esper for distancing himself from him about that photo-op, you know, that is an indication. but the president has a different relationship with general milley, who hasn't been in the job for even a year yet. the president really likes him. whether or not he takes the same sort of aggressive stance with him that he did with esper remarchbs to be seen. >> there's an extraordinary scene inside your story inside

the oval office where you have the president, the vice president, secretaries esper is there and attorney general barr along with general milley where the president begins the make the case for putting active duty military into the straights of this country. and at that point, according to your reporting, general milley becomes quite animated in making the case against that. >> yeah. and he wasn't alone. also the defense secretary and the attorney general who thought that now wasn't the time. he really was adamant about this, according to people we talked to. and that just sets the tone for how that day began for general milley. that meeting was in the morning in the oval office with the president, the vice president, the defense secretary, the attorney general, other aides and he got very fired up was how it was described to us and was shaking his fist at one point to make his point saying this is not okay. this is not what you should do. and ultimately, the president

backed down for the time being, but in the way that this president tends to do, which is i'll hold off for now, but i will do it if you guys don't take care of this. and what ensued after was an attempt by the secretary and others to move in the national guard so the president wouldn't use active duty troops. >> carol lee, thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," amid police brutality across the nation, cofounders of black lives matters alicia garza will be our guest. garza will be our guest

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fears of a possible surge in coronavirus cases sent the stock market tumbling yesterday pulling the dow down more than 1800 points for its worst day since march. the s&p 500 slid 5.9% while the nasdaq composite dropped 5.3%. concerned about a second wave of the coronavirus have risen as u.s. states push deeper into reopening and to add to

investors worries, it is believed the recovery from the coronavirus fpandemic will be slow. joining us now, dr. jeffrey sachs. also with us, distinguished professor of global affairs at the john hopkins school of advanced international studies, hal brand is back with us today. >> hal, it's so great to have jeffrey sachs here, but we wanted to get you on today because we know you could tell us exactly what is happening in north korea. once again, kim jong-un, we haven't seen him in a while and now north increase announcing complete break from the nuclear deal that donald trump thought that he was going to be getting. any insights into what we're seeing there?

>> this is a relatively familiar north korean tactic where he essentially bring the relationship to a halt, threaten to escalate in some unspecified way in hopes of ringing near term concessions out of the united states and potentially out of south korea as well in exchange for the promise of better north korean behavior down the road. what may be happening at this point is that the north korean government may calculate that president trump is in a relatively weak political position due to economic and other issues and that he will be particularly keen to preserve the fiction that the north korean nuclear problem has been solved, as he put it, a couple of years ago. so it may seem to be an opportune time from north korea's perspective to turn up the pressure on the united states. >> jeffrey sachs, your take, as well, on north korea. but specifically, let's look at the china angle. obviously, we're going to be sharing the global stage for china for the next 25, 30 years.

but north korea, in its current state, cannot exist without the support of china. what does the united states do beyond donald trump to build a better relationship with china, of course, and to compel china to act within the norms of international behavior and apply some pressure to the north korean regime? >> right now, all of our diplomacy is almost nonexistent or in retreat. i think we'll see no one is listening to the united states. we're so tied up in our inability to get this virus under control, in the internal instability that we see across america, in the political uncertainties, this is not a time of u.s. leadership and, of course, this administration has

not been leading, it's been retreating from one international diplomatic arrangement after another. so we have no leverage right now, basically. and we won't have leverage until we get out of the pandemic, which we have not done while asia has succeeded in doing. we will not get yout of this until ur economy begins to mendz but it's not going to mend as long as the pandemic continues. so we're in a tremendous mess and a collapse of diplomacy, essentially, which we're seeing all over the world. >> so jeffrey, your book, the age of globalization, technology and institutions, it's -- we're seeing -- we've obviously seen how globalization, how technology has impacted the american economy, the global economy, in both positive and

negative ways. we're seeing how this pandemic is doing, what richard haas said it would do at the beginning of the pandemic, not change history, but accelerate it. what is going to be the economic impact con american workers, again, from globalization, from technology, and, yes, from the pandemic and corporations cutting back their workforce even more? >> exactly. we have three mega trends right now in addition to the pandemic. we have the technological acceleration to the digital economy, which has been incredibly accelerated. we will not go back to millions and millions of the old brick and mortar jobs now. this is being recognized everywhere in the world. we have a geopolitical shift to asia, which was gradually going on, but has been accelerated because asia got the virus under control whereas europe and the

united states did not. and we have an environmental catastrophe. the coronavirus is a big part of that. it was a disease that was transferred from interactions between humans and nature, from bats to human population. but our environmental crisis, of course, goes far beyond that. so we have three huge changes that are under way which mean we don't go back to normal. we need a strategy. we don't have a strategy right now. we have no strategy. we have a pandemic. we have an economic collapse. we have a diplomatic collapse. and we're going to need a new strategy for a very different kind of world. a digital world. a world that is much more multi polar and a world in environmental crisis. and those are three denials of our current administration. we don't have a strategy because we're not facing the most basic realities of what is happening

right now. >> dr. sachs, it's willie geist. congratulations on the book. you say this pandemic, you wrote the book before the pandemic, but you say that it will accelerate the drive of the drive of the economy, the global economy, toward asia. what do you mean by that exactly and why do you think that is inevitable now? >> if you look at what is happening immediately with the pandemic, it's not just china, but japan, korea, taiwan, hong kong, australia, new zealand, all have the epidemic under control. their economies are starting to rebound. they are investing large scale in infrastructure, china's announced $1 trillion of investment in high tech. but that is going to be something seen across the asia pacific region. in the united states, we have double digit unemployment, which is going to persist.

we have the virus not only not under control, but beginning to accelerate in many places in the u.s. south and southwest because precautions have not been taken. and we're obviously in a profound social and political crisis, as well, the largest we've been in in our lifetimes. so in this sense, we're not able to solve our problems immediately until we have a new political direction and orientation and national consensus a way forward. and this means that we're really going to see the asia pacific region recovering before not only the u.s., but also the north atlantic in general, including the european union which was very hard hit by this crisis. they're doing a little bit better now, but they're very, very hard hit. at the same time, this digital

transformation means that of the 20 million jobs that have been shed since march, about 18 million jobs, many of them are never coming back. so the idea of a v-shaped recovery makes no sense. we need a new strategy. and the new strategy has to make sense in terms of the need for a digital economy, but adapting to it for a clean economy, for renewable energy and for other things that we don't even have on the political agenda right now. so this is a lot of sorting out to do for our country. and it's several major shifts. when i wrote the book these trends were underpinning my thought that we're in a new age of globalization. but the acceleration of all of these trends in the last few months is absolutely startling. >> it is startling, extraordinary, and yet hal

brands, america's foreign policy seems to be going in an opposite direction as the world becomes more globalized. the united states continues to retreat. conservatives, of course, used to attack barack obama for, quote, leading from behind, a phrase i don't think he ever said, and yet it's donald trump who keeps retreating from hot spots, whether it's battles against isis abandoning our kurd allies, leaving afghanistan, now talking about draw downs, dramatic drawdowns there, now talking about dramatic drawdowns in russia. what is the impact of united states of america on the global stage in negotiations with other countries? and even when it comes to business. does the world see america as a country in retreat right now from the global stage?

>> i think the world sees the united states as a country that is somewhat uncertain of itself at the moment and that is not able to exercise the competent and steady leadership that has generally been america's calling card over the past 75 years. so the through lines have been the united states would be the key stabilizes in the international system and the idea that the united states would be the catalyst of collective action in respond to go crisis. and one of the things that has been so alarming to many of our international allies and partners during the coronavirus crisis in particular is that the united states really hasn't even tried to exercise much of that leadership and that we have seemed to incapable of handling the domestic aspect of our response, as well. and so that sends a troubling signal to countries who are dependent on the united states for their own security and well

being. if the united states isn't able to lead, in this case, will it be able to lead in response to a military crisis or to a geopolitical confrontation of some sort? >> hal brands, thank you so much. dr. jeffrey sachs, thank you, as well. >> what an extraordinary important -- extraordinarily important book to read right now, especially, again, with the accelerants of all of those trends because of the pandemic. up next, one of the co-founder of black lives matter joins us to discuss the movement and why this time seems to be different. keep it right here on "morning joe." different. keep it right here on "morning joe.

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say her name. say her name. say her name. >> that was the mother of breonna taylor in louisville, kentucky, yesterday after the city council voted unanimously to ban the no-knock warrant that ultimately caused taylor her life. breonna's law was passed after days of protesters calling for an end of the practice of police breaking into a home to make an arrest. as congress considers federal police reform measures, there have been some changes in other cities and states, as well. in the district of columbia, the city council amended rules governing the use of force and now requires the release of the names of officers involved in deadly incidents and their body cam footage from those incidents. new york revoked a section of their civil rights law that

exemptedel police records from freedom of information acts. the eric garner anti-choke hold act was passed as part of a slate of police reform bills and is named for garner who died in 2014 as an nypd cop held him in the position. choke holds were already barred by the department, but the law goes further by establishing the crime of aggravated strangulation as a felony and is punishable by up to 15 years in prison. according to the new york state assembly, 996 people have reported being put in choke holds by nypd officers since garner's death. and out in california, governor gavin newsom has ordered state police to stop using the choke hold or teaching the technique. joining us now, organizer

activist co-founder of black lives matter, elesia garza. also with us, reverend william barber, president of repairers of the breach and cochair of the campaign. he's out with a new book entitled "we are call to be a movement." >> reverend, thank you so much for being with us. and alicia, thank you so much as well. i'm curious, and i'll ask both of you this question, after 400 years of slavery and segregation and racism, i am wondering, are we now at an inflection point as we were in 1963, 1964, 1965 in this slow march forward to racial justice? >> i think we are certainly

approaching a tipping point, and we are seeing some really incredible shifts culturally in our understanding of what racism is and isn't. i think we are approaching some important shifts culturally in terms of what has been the impact of racism on every system in our society. and i think that in order for us to actually meet this moment, we have to be mindful this moment requires us to have a level of courage, and it also requires us to be bold. and, frankly it is so important that some of these laws are being changed and strengthens around the country. and we have to remember that what we have an opportunity to do right now is redirect resources to the places in our society that need it the most. frankly, we are approaching a

recession. black unemployment is approaching 40%. and when we look at budgets -- city budgets, all the way up to the budgets of congress, what we know is that our budgets are not reflecting our morals. and, frankly, we are spending a lot of money on punishment and not enough money on promise. and we have to shift the ways in which we are distributing our resources to make sure that everybody in america has an opportunity to thrive. >> reverend, it's 2020, is it an inflection point? >> i agree with my dear sister. it can be. today is the 57th anniversary of the murder of maggie evers and it came one day after john f. kennedy announced he'd push for the civil rights act. when we hear the "i can't breathe" of our dear brother floyd, it is a danger if we isolate this moment just to

police violence as the form of death called by racism. that "i can't breathe" really is a shorthand for all the ways in which people can't breathe. even before the death of brother floyd, 700 people were dying a day from poverty, 250,000 a year and 61% of all african-americans were poor and low wealth. we have to address that. we had 80 million people uninsured or underinsured and there's a level of racism in that, joe, in terms of how the refusal of this country to provide insurance for all of its people connected to our bodies and not to our job has a disproportionate racialized impact on black people. even racist voter suppression has what i call a death measurement. when you suppress the vote, you allow people to get elected who once they get elected, they block health care, police reform, reforms in the climate and all of those blocks cause

death. so what we really have to have, i'm going to do a sermon at the national cathedral this sunday, and it says america accepting death is not an option anymore. and we have to look at how death happened because racism -- everything racism and classism touches, it causes a form of death and a form of strangulation and a form of suffocation to our democracy. so this can be a point but it won't be a point the new world that we see trying to be birthed in the street will not be birthed if we just isolate it to one form of death and isolate it to a few reforms in policing rather than a full reform throughout our society. >> alicia, it's willie geist. i'm curious on your take about why this time feels different, if you believe it does. and if you look at this polling which is extraordinary that shows three-quarters of americans. that crosses obviously

progressives and conservatives, republicans nvd d s and democrae and black. you have something like 70% believe what we saw with the knee on the neck that killed george floyd was representative of a larger problem with policing in this country. a new poll yesterday from yahoo! now show a majority of americans support athletes' right to kneel during the national anthem. confederate flag coming down from nascar. country music artists changing the names of their bands. confederate statues falling across the country. why do you feel like this time has so catalyzed the american people? it's not like this is something new as you've been pointing out for years. what is it about this moment? >> well, i mean, i will honestly say that the last four years have become so polarized under a president and under leadership that refuses to lead. and as a result, what we're seeing is poverty at

unimaginable levels. in the community that i live in, i can tell you that tent cities have grown in a way i haven't seen in my community in my entire life. we have a leadership that won't lead and as a result what we're seeing is ongoing murders of people on camera for everyone to watch by the people who are supposed to protect and serve our communities. and so -- and then in the midst of that, right, in the midst of that, because we lack leadership in this country from a president who won't lead, we actually found ourselves in the midst of a global pandemic that has been ravaging and attacking black communities incredibly savagely because there has not been an appropriate response. so that's the intersection we're at right now. and i think part of the reason this is exploding is because people are suffering.

and i think part of the reason this movement is spreading is because people are finding connection through their hope and also finding connection through a new vision for what this country can look like. i think it's incredibly powerful to say that we want to redistribute resources away from punishment, that we want to redistribute resources away from things in our communities that are not actually closing the gaps that we experience in health care and housing and employment and education, in standards for workers. and that we actually have an opportunity, right, to say, we can meet the promise of this nation, but we have to be courageous, and we have to be bold and we have to ensure that our leaders are enacting the political will that's necessary to actually make that a reality. >> reverend, the words "i can't breathe" caught on that

videotape. those chilling words "i can't breathe," the words that actually would have heard and seen on videotape during a pandemic that disproportionately impacted black americans, if we had cameras in emergency rooms. how many black mothers, fathers, grandmothers, grandfathers, children, people with underlying conditions died gasping for breath saying those words, "i can't breathe" because health care outcomes are different in america because when it comes to health care, like so many other areas, there are two americas. and talk about what we have not seen this year of black people dying dispurporoportionately gag for breath. >> i can't breathe is a shorthand for what so many

people are experiencing. and i believe this, i can't breathe, first of all, the hero is this 16-year-old girl. let's all of us be clear that she held that camera up and filmed it. when people saw, i can't breathe" and saw the suffocation by death. it is in the middle of a pandemic. it's killing disproportionate black and poor people. and it does -- and it's like the state is supposed to protect life, but too much under trump and mcconnell, it is exposing that when you have someone who is a racist, someone who is a narcissist and a cynic to go along with that, that people stop breathing in so many ways. your economy stops breathing. because of the death of health care people stop breathing. because of the rise of climate injustice, people stop breathing. it causes death. everything that racism and classism touches, it suffocates.

it destroys. and so i think that what you have is a kind of public mourning. people radiated with that "i can't breathe." and, joe, none of this has to be -- one of the things we have to understand this moment that this is by choice. we are suffocating this democracy by choice. and that's why the poor people's campaign, the national call for revival on june 2020, we're bringing together people of every different race, creased a color saying you have to address all of these. all of them because they are trying to suffocate the life out of a democracy. and the people marching are trying to -- >> the new book is "we are call to be a movement." profound words by reverend william barber. thank you so much. alicia garza, co-founder of black lives matter. thank you as well for everything you are doing. and tha