good saturday morning, everyone, and welcome to "a.m. joy." i'm in for joy reid. we are currently awaiting a commencement address from president donald trump to this year's graduating senior class at west point academy where graduates have gathered for an in-person ceremony, despite mounting concerns surrounding the potential spread of covid-19. more than 1,000 west point cadets previously dispersed across the country, they have now returned to campus for today's ceremony, though there will be social distancing measures in place. the decision to press forward with an in-person ceremony has been met with widespread criticism. it also comes the same week that the united states hit another grim milestone of more than 2 million confirmed cases of covid-19, more than 115,000 deaths. that is more than any other country in the world. at least 15 of those graduating

west point seniors, they've already tested positive for covid-19 upon returning to campus and were reportedly isolated before being allowed to rejoin their classmates. trump's speech to the military academy also coincides with a growing tension between him and the senior military leadership in this country. an unprecedented number of military leaders from the past and the present have broken their silence to speak out against donald trump for his mishandling of the nationwide protests and the public outrage ignited by the police killing of george floyd. most recently, the pentagon's top general, mark milley, who walked alongside donald trump in this infamous photo now just weeks ago as protesters were forcibly dispersed for trump's church photo op. he apologized saying his presence created a damaging perception of the military's involvement in domestic politics. >> as many of you saw the result of the photograph of me at lafayette square last week, that sparked a national debate about the role of the military in civil society. i should not have been there.

>> on thursday, a coalition of more than 500 west point alumni who collectively served across 10 presidential administrations penned a letter urging this year's graduating class to uphold the constitution and suggested that current west point alumni serving in senior level positions within the trump administration are failing to do so. hinting at the actions of defense secretary mark esper, who we should note is a west point graduate himself, who accompanied donald trump during his church photo op. the alumni sent a potent message to some military leaders serving in the trump administration, saying their actions betray public faith and threaten the credibility of an apolitical military. joining me now is congressman ted lieu of california. it is great to have you. what a week in u.s. military relations, civilian military relations in this country. i think a lot of people who are watching this and certainly my lifetime, they're disturbed by what we have seen emerge as the relationship between the

commander in chief and the armed forces of this country. >> thank you, amon, for your question. i previously served on active duty and one of the reasons we have the greatest military in the world is because before anyone could become a member of the military, we all had to take an oath, and that oath was not to the president or to the national anthem or to a political party. it was to the constitution of the united states. and i am pleased to see so many military leaders now honor that oath and push back against the president who is asking the military to take unconstitutional actions and to engage in partisan activity and that should never happen. >> what has been the most troubling concern for you about the relationship over the past three years between president trump and the military? there's so many aspects and there's so many threads as to the relationship. is it the way he talks about the military? is it the way he basks in the glory of military, the way he refers to generals as my generals, or is it more recently, the actual actions that we've seen the military

take and now subsequently apologize for? >> it is all of the above, and now you're seeing a breaking point where members of senior leadership in the military are recoiling at what donald trump is doing to try to pervert the military to his own uses. he views the military as his own private army. that's not what the military is. the military is here to defend the united states of america and it's not to be used for domestic purposes, and that's why you see a lot of pushback. americans are not the enemy. we should not be calling in active duty troops to go against american protesters and you see now the military recoiling at what donald trump wants them to do. >> yeah, and to that point, i want to read you just a quick excerpt from a letter that was written to the west point class of 2020 from fellow members of the long gray line. it says, sadly, the government has threatened to use the army in which you serve as a weapon against fellow americans engaging in these legitimate protests. worse, military leaders who took the same oath you take today

have participated in politically charged events. the principle of civilian control is central to the military profession, but that principle does not imply blind obedience. i want to focus in on that part, which is, those that are part of the military or who were part of the military or who were graduates of west point, serving in the administration, most notab notably right now somebody like the defense secretary, mark esper. how would you say he has handled his position since becoming the secretary of defense and that relationship with the president? >> sergeant esper has been disappointing. he has not stood up to the president the way that he should. not only is he the secretary of defense, but he previously served in the military. he understands the oath he took. just a simple example. congress members wrote a letter to secretary esper asking him to ban public displays of the confederate flag at the department of defense. the navy has done it. the marines have done it. we don't know why he hasn't done it yet for the d.o.d. and that's

just one simple example where he's unwilling to go against the president of the united states even though it's the right thing to do. >> i want to bring in colonel jack jacobs, medal of honor recipient, retired u.s. army, msnbc military analyst. colonel jacobs, it is always a pleasure to have you with us, sir. let me get your thoughts, first of all, on this, and i want to tap into your history here with the relationship between the white house and the military. have you seen anything like this that we are seeing play out, this kind of tension that has been boiling between the military leadership, both past and present, currently serving and past officials, and a sitting u.s. president? have you ever seen this kind of tension before? >> well, not like this. but you know, frequently, there is tension between the president on the one hand, national command authority, and the military leaders, especially when the military establishment is required to perform, to go

overseas, to follow paths which they think the -- the military thinks is not strategically conducive to the defense of the republic. often, the white house has dictated, in wars that we've fought, have dictated things like targets, specific targets, tactics that are to be used, and so on. in the war in vietnam, in the wars in the middle east, even in the second world war, we found that the white house would try to influence the tactics and the strategies that were used overseas in the military's accomplishment of a military mission, so there's always -- there's invariably going to be a tension. >> right. >> in the -- but in the past, i have not seen anything quite like this where the use of the military establishment has been proffered as something that's really important to do by the

white house, and it's -- revolves around the use of the military in quelling legitimate protests in the united states on american soil. it's happened before and not with a good result, by the way. >> you certainly know the military and the military mindset better than anyone. you know those young cadets and what they've gone through to graduate on this very important day for them and for their families and certainly for our country. have you seen a class graduate from west point that is on the brink of the challenges that they are facing, both externally and now internally with a president who, by many people's accounts, has politicized the military in this country? >> well, it's as intense as it has ever been, but you got to realize the situation that these kids are in and how they view their situation. they've graduated from university. they've actually taken the oath of office already, so they're out of uniform, being in cadet uniforms, they took it about a

week or so ago. they're ready to go out there and take their place among everybody else who's in uniform. that's all they're looking forward to do. if you're at the bottom of the food chain, as all these kids are, you think less about things like grand national strategy and certainly even less about domestic politics than you do about taking care of business, doing what you were trained to do, leading your troops and training them to accomplish the missions that they may be required to do. i remember when i was in vietnam, and there were a lot of protests in the united states against the war, really damaging protests, and the democratic national convention in chicago was a shambles. i mean, this was really bad news back in the states. but for those of us at the bottom of the food chain, your only consideration is, accomplishing the mission and

taking care of each other. and we focused either exclusively or almost exclusively on that. these kids are getting ready to go out there to do that kind of business, to defend us, and to train others to defend us, and i think their focus is much less on domestic politics, thank goodness, than it is on their mission. >> colonel jacobs, stay with me. i want to widen this conversation out a little bit and bring in msnbc contributor malcolm nance, author of "the plot to betray america" and jennifer ruben, opinion writer for the "washington post." malcolm, let me begin with you, as somebody who has served in our armed forces in this country and knows the mindset. i wanted to pick up on this last sentence of this letter that we are reading that says, you know, the principle of civilian control is central to the military profession, but that principle does not imply blind obedience. the reason why i wanted to talk about that is because we're seeing that play out in the

context of law enforcement in this country where too many people, too many law enforcement officials sometimes are saying, i was following orders, they didn't stop their superior, they didn't stop their supervisor from doing something they know was wrong. this generation of soldiers that is about to graduate from west point, they may be challenged in ways that our democracy has not seen before. what would you say to those young graduates today? >> well, i would certainly point back to the leaders in the armed forces that have established the precedence. i live near west point, even though i'm navy, but i do believe in everything that they learn. i have taken that very same oath. my family has taken that oath almost nonstop since 1864. so, we believe in the motto that they are imbued with, and that is duty, honor, and country. you know, general douglas mcarthur actually has his speech, part of his speech,

engraved in stone at west point, which tells you what that means, and it means, as -- i'll paraphrase him but it means what you will become, what you ought to be and what you can be if you serve the nation and the constitution and not yourself. and he calls it the bedrock, the cornerstone of having courage when there's little chance of having courage, having faith when there's little hope of having faith and having hope where no hope exists. this is where these young men and women have learned the founding principles that this nation is not beholden to the man or the woman in the seat of the president of the united states but to the nation itself. they need to not only hear this. it needs to be reaffirmed today that they are the line that defends the constitution. the other problem is, the person giving that speech today is a walking paragon of violations of the basic honor code of west

point, which is you will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do. so, there's going to be a lot of hypocrisy flying around there today but as far as i'm concerned, so long as they maintain true to the heart of this nation, they'll go forward and be great servants to this country. >> jennifer, when you look back at notable generals who served in this administration, obviously, a civilian, somebody like jim mattis, general jim mattis, general john kelly, these were individuals who in the beginning of the administration were often touted as the adults in the room, they were celebrated for having that kind of perspective in an administration that included inexperienced people like jared kushner or ivanka trump and certainly even the current president. do you think that their silence for the first three years made things worse, even though they are now coming out and speaking out against this president? >> unfortunately, we won't know because we don't know if their voices would have been heeded and whether they would have had

any impact. there are many times when i think their voices would have been helpful and i was among those who had certainly encouraged general mattis, for one, to speak out in many instances in which the military was being misused, in which our international relations were really at the breaking point, where the president, for example, solicited a foreign power to try to get information or try to create information that would be harmful to his political appointment -- opponent, rather. in fact, they didn't do that. and i think in some ways, that's what makes it all the more powerful now when they did speak up. you think of all the opportunities that all of them had for three-plus years to come clean, to explain to the country how the president was violating the constitution, how he was harming the military, and they held their tongue until now, and i think it speaks to the power of the moment, what's going on in the country, where they can

see that there is a shift in perception by many americans. they can see that institutions' values are under assault. and i think it is a tribute to the values that malcolm just spoke to that you had generals who, although they were perhaps misled initially, they've now come to their senses, and they realize what that code really means. how often in one's career do you get to act upon the very generic, basic concepts in which you took your position? here, they have to live that oath, and i think it's a remarkable moment, and kudos to those who have recognized it. i have never seen, maybe malcolm, who's much more astute in his military history than i, can remember an instance in which the joint chiefs, the chairman of the joint chiefs, came forward and abjectly apologized for his behavior and moreover, went through the

history of the military and pledged that the military had to do better on race. it was really an extraordinary moment, almost, i think, unprecedented in the military, really asserting those civilian values and those constitutional values that so many politicians, unfortunately, have failed to do. >> i want everyone to stay with me for a moment. i want to set the scene for our viewers. they're seeing live pictures of the 1,100 or so cadets make their way on to the graduating field. obviously, you can see all of the cadets wearing face masks. we also, if you can, have noticed the chairs relatively apart from one another within social distancing guidelines. you can see almost at least six feet apart. i want to note a little bit about what the "wall street journal" described in this moment which is that trump is set to speak at a socially distant commencement. the event has been drastically overhauled. the roughly 1,100 graduates will be seated six feet apart, as ek see there on our screen, and

won't shake the president's hand when they receive their diplomas. their families will watch the program moved from a 38,000-seat stadium to a parade field via live video. congressman ted lieu, from your perspective, i know this is such an important day in the life of these cadets and in the life of the families who have sacrificed so much and will continue to sacrifice as these young men and women go into the armed forces. do you think this was a smart decision by west point to host this ceremony in the middle of a pandemic to provide the backdrop for the president to come and give this speech? >> let me first say that one of the most rewarding jobs of a member of congress is to nominate amazing students to our nation's service academies, so i'm honored these cadets today who are graduating and honor them for the upcoming service to our nation. in terms of whether there should have been an in-person graduation at west point, absolutely not. they had to bring in all these cadets, over 1,000 of them, 15 of them tested positive for

coronavirus, they could have gotten infections from other people where they were traveling or given other people while they were traveling. they should have followed what the navy and coast guard did and simply had a virtual graduation. donald trump could still have given this speech, just done it virtually. there was no reason to have this in-person graduation and put people at unnecessary risk. >> and i could be wrong. i don't know of any other graduation taking place in this country in person as of yet. let me just, again, colonel jacobs, your thoughts as well as i just ask everyone on the table here, do you think this is a ceremony that should have been held in person? are you concerned that it is being used as a backdrop for a president who wants to make an important message or deliver his message, rather, against the backdrop of a military setting? >> well, there are three things here. first of all, the air force academy earlier last month had a graduation just like this. it doesn't make it right, but they had a graduation just like

this. the second thing is, both the army and west point went out of their way to make sure that people did not transmit, they were quarantined. they were checked when they got back to west point, and then they were quarantined again. they were in relatively small groups. and so on. so, they've done the best they possibly could in order to make this situation less difficult than it otherwise would be, but there's something to keep in mind. the superintendent of the united states military academy works directly for the chief of staff of the army, and the chief of staff of the army, through the chain of command, works for the president of the united states. and if the president of the united states decides that this is going to happen, then this is going to happen. and the only way to avoid it is -- well, there's no way to avoid it. the people in the chain of command below the president can decide that they're not going to follow the order and can resign.

that didn't happen in this case because both the army and the military academy figured that it could reduce, through its actions, could reduce the threat. nevertheless, there's no point in having a situation like this solely for the purpose of giving the president an opportunity to be in front of the cameras. that's something else entirely. and it raises the question of whether or not this is actually just an opportunity, a situation in which the military is there to support a political end of the president. >> jennifer, i got to ask you, how long do you think it will be -- do you think it will be used in a trump political campaign commercial? >> well, this is unfortunately what the president does. he uses the military as a prop. he staged, if you recall, that july 4th celebration last year with the jets and the military equipment on the ground because he thinks of the military, as we've said before, as his generals, his military.

i think deep down, he must know that he is a coward, that he didn't serve his country when his country called him, and he now makes up for it with this false bravado. i would note one thing that's very interesting. this comes just before the president is about to go back on the road to massive rallies without social distancing, without masks. if west point can do tit, and i west point insists that it is for the health of our military, why would trump allow civilians, his supporters even, to put themselves at such risk? it also underscores, really, the absolute narcissism of this president, that all he cares about is the optics, the picture. he doesn't care who gets sick, who dies. he doesn't even care if, quote, his voters are the ones most affected. he wants his photo ops at the convention, at these rallies, at west point, and as a result, he puts people in harm. he makes people more likely to

become infected and to die. we've never had a president who behaved in such fashion. >> we should note as we did at the top of the hour, we've hid 2 million cases of covid patients in this country, 115,000 deaths and still climbing and the president about to go back on the campaign trail. i believe next week at the earliest. malcolm nance, let me ask you really quickly, the joint chiefs of staff chairman mark milley coming under a lot of scrutiny, a lot of criticism. nbc reporting that at one point he considered resigning. do you think he should have resigned? >> i don't think he should have resigned. i think what he did was the right thing. he maintained the chain of command. he showed everyone down the chain of command what a real leader is like. you know, we have everybody uses this old phrase, when you mess up, you fess up. well, what general milley did was he suddenly realized he was used by donald trump. he was used. so did the secretary of defense.

realized they were both used that day. i understand his excuse for wearing his battle dress uniform, you know, because he was over at the fbi. accepted. but being brought out there and then having the national guard do what they did to the civilians there, having national guard helicopters, believe me, within that 24 hours, that went into his head, and he started thinking about the code. he started thinking about the traditions. he started thinking about the duty and the honor of his country. and by coming out and making that speech, he has recalibrated the armed forces of the united states. further, to the last question you asked colonel jacobs, i know i'm senior enlisted here for this conversation. when the president issues an order, it comes in two flavors, lawful or unlawful. this is a lawful order, to assemble the core of cadets at west point. i know what's in donald trump's head, he used to be a storm king when he was in high school at the new york military academy -- new york military school just down the road where he dressed

in a uniform just like this. that's playing to his soldiers. it may be a lawful order, but there are two types of lawful order, right? stupid and dangerous. in this case, they are both stupid and dangerous. but the core of cadets and the military chain of command is showing you that they maintain the chain of command. they maintain the dignity of these troops and they will go forth and be great leaders, having gone through this very challenge. but what i'm afraid of is the things that are going to come out of the president's mouth on that stage today. they are going to be absolutely abhorrent, i know it. and these people will still go forth and do their jobs. >> certainly nothing to take away from the incredible work they have done to get to this point in their lives and where they go forward. we're going to bring those comments to you live when they do happen. i'm going to ask all of you to stay in place. we're going to take a quick break. when we come back, we'll continue to monitor the speech there in west point, bring the comments from the president and others there to you live and

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all right, welcome back, everyone. you see there president trump making his entrance into that graduating ceremony, i guess, saluting also the statue of douglas mcarthur. while we await a commencement speech from the president to the graduate of the united states military academy at west point, the mayor of seattle is defending what has become known as c.h.a.z., the capitol hill autonomous zone, where activists protesting police brutality and the death of george floyd have set up a four-block police-free area. they are calling it a cop-free co-op, a round the clock peaceful protest where people are gathering, sharing food, masks, and other supplies, screening movies and demanding changes like defunding the police. although all reporting indicates that the c.h.a.z. is a peaceful demonstration, donald trump has called the protesters there domestic terrorists in a tweet and even threatened to send in the troops. >> we're not going to let

seattle be occupied by anarchists. we're not going to let this happen in seattle. if we have to go in, we're going to go in. >> joining me now is a congresswoman whose district spans most of seattle. thank you so much for joining us. let me give you a chance to respond to what the president is describing about citizens and residents in your district or at least in the city of seattle. what do you make of what he is saying about those protesters? >> well, he's continuing to show that he is a weak leader. strong leaders do not need to resort to the military all the time, and i think that this is what we have seen over and over again with donald trump. he wants to be a strong man. but he's actually weak. he keeps resorting to this idea that he's going to bring in the military. i've got a bill with mark and ilhan that would stop the president from, you know, from utilizing the insurrection act and require congressional approval in order to do that. we do not need the president to

bring in any troops here in seattle. we reject that. this is a peaceful zone. this is part of the deep seated protests and rage around police brutality, injustice, and violence against black people in this country. and it has been really incredible to see the thousands of protesters day after day after day calling for, demanding change. that's what we're doing in congress with the justice in policing act, which will ban chokeholds, the kind that killed george floyd, that would ban no-knock warrants, the kind that killed breonna taylor. you know, end qualified immunity and allow for police misconduct to really transfer from department to department so people could see who these police officers are that have been involved in misconduct. those are the kinds of reforms that any strong leader would be pushing, and here in seattle, there's a real effort locally to

work with the city council, to work with the mayor, and demand that we actually start investing in all kinds of things that police are in the position of dealing with because we haven't invested in housing and education, all of those issues, mental health, and so i think that's what's going on here. donald trump is, as usual, out of touch with how you really lead in the country. that's never been his strong suit. >> let me play for you a sound byte from one of the protesters or one of the residents in this c.h.a.z. zone right now. take a listen. >> we want to build something that makes more sense. we want to build a more compassionate police system that knows how to de-escalate situations and is more accountable and is not filled with these hateful people that keep murdering us. >> so, obviously, those are very legitimate, noble goals for any of the protesters.

people may be watching that, saying that is going to take time. that is not something that happens in a day or a week but certainly can begin or start the process towards. how long do you see that taking while the protest also continues in that seattle area? how do you reconcile the urgent need of the protesters there and at the same time addressing the long-term concerns that they have? >> well, these are deep-seated problems, as you know. you know, law enforcement in this country was set up with a history that is -- was about capturing black slaves who had gone away and then enforcing jim crow laws so this culture is deeply embedded and it will take time. we need to do federal reforms. that's why we need to pass the justice in policing act. but like sara said, we need local communities to reimagine policing and to really think about what are the critical places where police need to be there, need to be responding, but what are the other things

that need to be done in terms of building support services for mental health, building more housing, and that can start right away. the city council is just about to go into a budget process, and i'll tell you, we're in the eighth year of a consent decree here in seattle. i was part of, as an activist, before coming to congress, part of originally calling for the department of justice to come in and do a pattern and practice investigation. i helped select the police chief a couple of times ago. i've been on numerous police accountability panels. i understand these changes are difficult, but this is a moment where we cannot let george floyd just be a picture on a t-shirt, a name that we all utter, but no change that actually honors his life and what he has come to symbolize, along with all of the other people whose names we can continue to mention. so, you know, we can make changes right away. we should pass the justice in policing act, and then here locally, we have many in the justice and policing act to help

black communities and brown communities across the country do exactly this, reimagine what safety for all looks like. just should not be that a black man or woman walks down a street, sees a police officer, and goes in the opposite direction. never calls the police. that is not safety for all. and we have to fix that. it's urgent, and we have to start responding right away, and we can. but the overall culture change is obviously going to take some time. >> i want to ask you, specifically, about how seattle police has been responding to the protests in that city because they certainly have drawn a little bit of criticism for some of their tactics, firing tear gas and what have you. but let me play you the sound byte from the police chief of seattle, carmen best. watch. >> you should know, leaving the precinct was not my decision. we fought for days to protect it. i asked you to stand on that line, day in and day out, to be pelted with projectiles, to be screamed at, threatened, and in

some cases hurt. then to have a change of course nearly two weeks in, it seems like an insult to you and our community. ultimately, the city had other plans for the building and relented to severe public pressure. we had solid information to believe that anti-government groups would destroy the precinct once we left, whether through vandalism or arson. >> i want to give you a chance to respond to that. what do you make of, first of all, the language that she's using, calling them anti-government protests and then more importantly, a little bit about how she essentially disagrees with the decision to vacate that precinct as we've seen mostly peaceful protests. what do you make of that, congresswoman? >> i've known carmen best for a long time. she's a dedicated police officer, but i do not understand these statements, and the response -- i have been critical, publicly and privately, to the mayor about the response to these protests. i did not think we should have implemented curfews.

i did not think we should have brought in national guard. i did not think that we should have been using tear gas and rubber bullets. i mean, what we are -- what protesters are asking for is a different kind of response. i don't know whose decision it was to vacate the east precinct. i have talked directly to the fbi to ask what information was there that, you know, sort of indicated that there were going to be attacks on the east precinct. i have not gotten anything, ayman. the fbi has said that they don't have that information, so i'm asking carmen best and the mayor to provide me with that information because, really, i think that there have been a series of things here that could have avoided all of the confrontations that, frankly, turned seattle, my district, this is in my district, turned seattle into a war zone, people, you know, police with riot gear, national guardsmen behind them, big rifles, and the vast

majority of protesters have been peaceful. i think the culture of the police should be, it doesn't matter what you throw at us, it is macho for us to de-escalate, and that's what we're trying to get to here. so, i don't know what happened here with the vacation of the, you know, the vacating of the east precinct. but the protesters have been calling for de-escalation and a peaceful response to the injustice of the murder of george floyd, breonna taylor, che taylor, tony mcdade, let's go through the list, and that has taken far too long in seattle. >> and obviously, as you know, there's that new bill that is going through congress, at least led by house democrats, who want sweeping reforms of policing in this country, no-knock warrants, a ban on those, a ban on chokeholds, you know, all kinds of reforms that are out there but the reality of it is, so much of this happens on a state and local level. how do you take what you are doing in washington, d.c., and

make sure that some of the counties, police departments on the city level actually implement them? >> well, you have to have both. you have to outlaw some of these things federally, and then you also need to give more jurisdiction to state attorney generals and others who are trying to prosecute, which we do in the bill, and then you have to have a component that is around investing in local communities. so, the bill -- the justice in policing act, the democrats have written and we invite republicans to come into is really comprehensive in that way. it invests in de-escalation training. it invests in local police departments, but it also conditions federal funding on good policing, and it bans things like depriving oxygen to the brain. it's pretty simple. but it also gives money to local communities to completely reimagine policing as that protester in seattle was talking about. >> all right, congresswoman

jayapal, thank you so much for joining us this morning. i appreciate your time as always. and coming up, donald trump wanted to give a speech at west point, so they brought 1,100 cadets back to campus, despite the concerns of the coronavirus just to listen to the president. that's next. that's next. wayfair has way more ways to renovate your home, from inspiration to installation. like way more vanities perfect for you. nice. way more unique fixtures and tiles. pairing. ♪ nice. way more top brands in sinks and faucets. way more ways to rule your renovation. nice! on any budget, with free shipping. wayfair. way more than furniture. and still going for my best. even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib... ...not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin, i want that too. eliquis.

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we are still awaiting donald trump's speech to graduating cadets at west point which is taking place despite concerns

about the spread of the coronavirus. you see the live pictures on the screen. not only have we reached another grim milestone of more than 2 million cases and unfortunately 115,000 fatalities, but an analysis of these numbers also suggests that a second wave is indeed imminent in this country. the rolling seven-day average of new cases in 21 states was higher than the average 7 days earlier. and there's an increase in hospitalizations in 9 states, which reopened as early as memorial day. despite those concerns, donald trump also plans to resume his campaign rallies in tulsa, oklahoma, next weekend. but rally-goers there must now sign a waiver saying they won't sue the campaign if they contract the virus. joining me now is dr. irwin redletter, msnbc public health analyst and director of columbia university's national center for disaster preparedness. it's great to have with us, doctor. always a pleasure to talk to you and get your thoughts. there's been a little bit of

bother as to where we are as a country right now. are we at the beginning of a second wave or we haven't even left the first wave by some people's analysis. where do you think we are as a country? >> so, ayman, to your point, we are still in -- and this is no uncertain terms. we're in the first wave. we haven't even remotely -- can consider ourselves getting out of the first wave. and the second wave is expected sometime in the fall but we're still in an active first wave here and lots of people are at risk, unfortunately, because of the early, in my view, premature opening of everything but there's a lot going on, but we're still in the first wave. >> so when you look at the numbers that we just ran through, the spike, if you will, that we've seen over the last couple of days in some of these states, what do you, from a medical perspective, attribute that to? >> well, you know, there's some talk about whether or not this represented more testing, which is absolutely not the case. these are -- we're seeing states with very significant increases in hospitalizations.

that's not about testing. it's about people being sick with the coronavirus. so, make no mistake about it, we are in a very, very -- it's not only the first wave, but it's a very active part of the first wave. it's just popping up in different places, which is characteristic of a pandemic, ayman. >> let me get your thoughts, if i can, and i'll come back to the nationwide discussion but let me get your thoughts really quickly about west point and we see that ceremony there. obviously, they're going to great lengths to try to maintain social distance. cadets were wearing masks. but even in an event like this, as structured and organized as it is, do you have any concerns as a health expert about the virus spreading? >> yeah, of course. you know, we've been discouraging gatherings. that's one of the main points of trying to control the spread of the disease. these cadets have been apparently tested for covid. they're negative. i don't know how long ago it was. and they've been essentially quarantined for 14 days, but that's -- there's the medical

issue, which puts people at risk, but there's also the perception, there's the visual image of the president gathering all these people together when the rest of the country's being strongly warned by public health experts not to do that. so, this is a -- another example of a very mixed messaging that's really quite dangerous that's coming out of the white house, more or less like the president refusing to wear masks at events and meetings with people. i think it just -- it just gives the wrong message to people at a time when we're still in great danger from catching and spreading the disease, ayman. >> and he's going to be doing it again later towards the end of the week with the rally in tulsa, oklahoma, this time asking folks there to sign a waiver. what message does that send, when you have a president who is saying to the public, and even his administration is saying, you know, we've got this, it's going well, the numbers are going down, we're doing great, they've pretty much disbanded at

least the press conferences of the covid task force and yet he's going out there to hold a rally and telling people, don't hold us liable if you get it. >> yeah, so, it's so complicated and hypocritical. i think the president has basically been ignoring his senior medical health advisors for a long time, and then just sort of cutting off the information flow from the white house. i can't tell you whether that's good or bad because so much of what the president was saying at these briefings or whatever they were was just untrue or calculated to give some message which wasn't accurate. so, it's all about a level of hypocrisy and confusion and messaging from a president who doesn't seem to be really paying attention to how he's perceived in the country, and it's just really bad, and it's bad for people's confidence in government generally, so i think we've got a lot of issues here sort of to unpack about how the president messages, but it's not good. >> i was going to say, and a lot of it certainly is on the feet

of the president, but also when you think of a decision like the rnc to host the convention in jacksonville, in a state that, at least here, one of the states seeing spikes in cases. you have to wonder what officials in that state are considering by having, you know, thousands of people gather and certainly what the president wants a real convention with thousands of people gathering for his appointment as the nominee, but that also has to be troubling that it's being held in a state like florida that is seeing a spike in cases. >> very troubling, and i keep saying, i hope they have a refundable deposit on the venue because the chance of that actually happening, to me, are very, very slim. it's so preposterously unsafe to do that, even though he might want the rally and the energy. and by the way, you know, what the rnc wants to do and what donald trump wants to do are inseparable. they're one, basically, timotat

point, just like many of the members on the republican side of congress, he's got it all in his hands and i think that the decisions about where or whether or even to have a convention are not being made for the public's good. they're being made for the president's aspirations. >> dr. irwin, thank you so much for your time. we want to cross over to west point to hear president trump address the graduating class of 2020. let's listen. >> on behalf of our nation, let me say congratulations to the incredible west point class of 2020. congratulations. everyone, have a good time. enjoy yourselves. because we are here to celebrate your achievements and great achievements they are. let us also recognize your remarkable superintendent, general darryl williams, for his outstanding stewardship. general, thank you very much. great job. thank you.

few words in the english language and few places in history have commanded as much awe and admiration as west point. this premier military academy produces only the best of the best, the strongest of the strong, and the bravest of the brave. west point is a universal symbol of american gallantry, loyalty, devotion, discipline, and great skill. there is no place on earth i would rather be than right here with all of you. it's a great honor. across this hallowed plain have passed many of the greatest and most fearsome soldiers that ever lived. they were heroes who drove thundering columns of sherman tanks into the heart of a wicked empire. they were legends who unleashed

the fury of american artillery upon our enemies on remote islands and distant shores. they were titans who strode through cannon blasts and cavalry charge and and stared d our foes through great clouds of smoke and shrapnel. they were the army rangers who led the way up jagged cliffs, the airborne soldiers who rained down justice in the dark of night, the infantry whose very sight meant liberation was near, and the mighty forces who sent tyrants, terrorists, and sadistic monsters running scared through the gates of hell. no evil force on earth can match the noble power and righteous glory of the american warrior. i have no doubt that the young

men and women before me today will add your names to this eternal chronicle of american heroes. you will go forth from this place adored by your countrymen, dreaded by your enemies, and respected by all throughout the world. some day generations of future west point cadets will study your legacy. they will know your deeds. they will celebrate your triumphs, and they will proudly follow your example. through the 1,107 cadets who today become the newest officers in the most exceptional army ever to take the field of battle, i am here to offer america's salute. thank you for answering your nation's call.

on this special occasion, we are delighted to be joined by congressman steve womack, secretary of the army ryan mccarthy, assistant secretary casey bordinski, and army chief of staff general james mcconville, an old grad from the class of 1981. let's also express our appreciation to general curtis buzzard, general cindy jepp, and all of the wonderful instructors, coaches, and faculty members who are continuing west point's two-century tradition of unrivaled excellence. to all of the parents, grandparents, and family members watching this ceremony from your beautiful home, even though you could not be here today, we know

this day could never have happened without you. your love and sacrifice have given america these phenomenal men and women. cadets, please join me in sending your parents and families the heartfelt thanks that they so richly deserve. they're all watching right now. please. [ applause ] [ cheers ] thank you very much. the depth and breadth of the united states military's contributions to our society are an everlasting inspiration to us all. i want to take this opportunity to thank all members of america's armed forces in every

branch, active duty, national guard and reserve, who step forward to help battle the invisible enemy, the new virus that came to our shores from a distant land called china. we will vanquish the virus. we will extinguish this plague. i also want to thank the men and women of our national guard who respond with precision to so many recent challenges from hurricanes and natural disasters to ensuring peace, safety, and the constitutional rule of law on our streets. we thank every citizen who wears a uniform in selfless service to our nation. the members of this class have come from every state in our union. you have come from the farms and the cities, from states big and

small, and from every race, religion, color, and creed. but when you enter these grounds, you became part of one team, one family, proudly serving one great american nation. you became brothers and sisters pledging allegiance to the same timeless principles, joined together in a common mission to protect our country, to defend our people, and to carry on the traditions of freedom, equality, and liberty that so many gave their lives to secure. you exemplify the power of shared national purpose to transcend all differences and achieve true unity. today you graduate as one class, and you embody one noble creed

-- duty, honor, country. every graduate in this field could have gone to virtually any top-ranked university that you wanted. you chose to devote your life to the defense of america. you came to west point because you know the truth -- america is the greatest country in human history. and the united states military is the greatest force for peace and justice the world has ever known. the survival of america and the endurance of civilization itself depends on the men and women just like each of you. it depends on people who love their country with all their heart and energy and soul. it depends on citizens who

build, sustain, nurture, and defend institutions like this one. that is how societies are made and how progress is advanced. what has historically made america unique is the durability of its institutions against the passions and prejudices of the moment. when times are turbulent, when the road is rough, what matters most is that which is permanent, timeless, enduring, and eternal. it was on this soil that american patriots held the most vital fortress in our war for independence. it was this school that gave us the men and women who fought and won a bloody war to extinguish the evil of slavery within one lifetime of our founding.

it was the graduates of west point, towering figures like mcarthur, patton, eisenhower, and bradley, who led america to victory over thessista sinister and imperial fascists 75 years ago. it was under the leadership of west point graduates like the legendary general matthew ridgeway that the army was at the forefront of ending the terrible injustice of segregation. it was army strength that held the line against brutal opposition and oppression from communism. and it has been thanks to patriots like you that america has climbed to new heights of human achievement and national

endeavor. this is your history, this is the legacy that each of you inherits. it is the legacy purchased with american blood at the crest of little roundtop or the crimson beaches of normandy, in the freezing mud of bastone, and the dense jungles of vietnam. it is the legacy of courageous, self-less, faithful patriots who fought for every inch of dirt, with every ounce of strength, and every last scrap of heart and drive and grit that they had. and they did it because they believed in the undying principles of our founding. they did it because they cherished their homes, their

faith, their family, and their flag. and they did it because when they came to this school, they were taught to hold fast to their love of our country, to cherish our heritage, learn from it, and build upon it. that is what young americans are taught here at west point. that is the legacy that you carry forward as second lieutenants in the united states army, and you must never forget it. through four long years you have honed your skills, trained your mind and body to overcome every obstacle and earned your place of pride in the long gray line. you made it through the rigors

of our day and beast and intensity of cldt and weeks of training in the blistering heat. you pushed yourselves far beyond every limit imaginable. some of you have even pushed the limits a bit too much. so for any cadets who have not finished walking off their hours, as commander in chief i hereby absolve all cadets on restriction for minor conduct offenses, and that is effective immediately. congratulations. [ applause ] that's a nice one, isn't it? don't you feel better now? surviving the 47-month experience is never easy, but

only the class of 2020 can stay survived 48 months. when it comes to bragging rights, no one can boast louder than the class that brought navy's 14-year football winning streak to a screeching halt. you did that. [ cheers ] i happened to be there. [ applause ] i happened to be there. that's right. that was a big day. i was there. you beat navy and brought the commander in chief's trophy back to west point for two straight years. so we say, go, army, go. this graduating class secured more than 1,000 victories for the black knights, including three bowl victories, 13 ncaa

team appearances, and a woman's rugby championship with the help of somebody that i just met, 2019 mvp sam sullivan. fantastic job. thank you. fantastic. [ cheers and applause ] five cadets won national boxing championships, and adia queen brought home two, brendan brown earned the title of powerlifting national champion, in academics, 38 cadets have earned fellowships to continue their studies including first captain dane vanderwahl who received one of the most prestigious awards in academia, the rhodes scholarship. congratulations, dane. a great achievement. thank you.

congratulations. [ applause ] great achievement. but no one modeled the values of the soldier scholar quite like lindsey morettian. lindy earned the highest overall class standing and the highest physical program score. she has published scientific research in a prominent journal and set five new records on the athletic track. lindy, incredible job. where is lindy? where is lindy? [ applause ] as somebody that did so well,y that didn't give you a very good seat, lindy. we've to talk about that. congratulations. right now, america needs a class of cadets that lives by your motto -- with vision, we lead. we need you to carry on the

spirit of the great general ulysses s grant. soon after assuming overall command, following three years of union setbacks, general grant encountered someone heading north to washington during the battle of the wilderness. if you see the president, grant said, tell him from me that whatever happens there will never be no turning back. we need you to be as visionary as patton who was a young man in 1919 and became the first soldier assigned to the army tank corpcorps. one month he saw the future writing if resistance is broken and the line is pierced, the tank must and will assume the

role of pursuit cavalry and ride the enemy to death. under patton's leadership, that's exactly what they did. we need you to be as bold and determined as the immortal general douglas mcarthur what knew that the american soldier never, ever quits after lea. after leaving the philippines for australia, at a low point of the pacific war in 1942, macarthur famously vowed "i shall return." for two years he then took great strategic risks and placed himself often in personal danger. on october 20th, 1944, macarthur stepped off a landing boat,

strode through knee-high water, and proclaimed people of the philippines, i have returned by the grace of almighty god. our forces stand again on philippine soil. he then called upon the island's brave people to rise up and join the fight. america's momentum was unstoppab unstoppable. these great leaders were not afraid of what others might say about them. they didn't care. they knew their duty was to protect our country. they knew the army exists to preserve the republic and the strong foundations upon which is stands. family, god, country, liberty, and justice. they were true tough american patriots. that is what our country needs, especially in these times.

and that is what you are. each of you begins your career in the army at a crucial moment in american history. we are restoring the fundamental principles that the job of the american soldier is not to rebuild foreign nations but defend and defend strong ly our nation from foreign enemies. we are ending the era of endless wars. in its place is a renewed, clear-eyed focus on defending america's vital interests. it is not the duty of u.s. troops to solve ancient conflicts in far-away lands that many people have never even heard of. we are not the policemen of the world, but let our enemies be on

notice. if our people are talented, we will never, ever hesitate to act. and when we fight, from now on we will only fight to win. as macarthur said, "in war there is no substitute for victory." to ensure you have the very best equipment and technology available, my administration has embarked on a colossal rebuilding of the american armed forces. a record like no other. after years of devastating budget cuts and a military that was totally depleted from these endless wars, we have invested

over $2 trillion -- trillion, that's with a "t" -- dollars in the most fighting force by far on the planet earth. we are building new ships, bombers, jet fighters and helicopters by the hundreds. new tanks, military satellites, rockets and missiles. even a hypersonic missile that goes 17 tiles faster than the -- times faster than the fastest missile currently available in the world and can hit a target 1,000 miles away within 14 inches from center point. for the first time in 70 years, we established a new branch of the united states military, the space force. that's a big deal. in recent years, america's warriors have made clear to all

the high cost of threatening the american people. the savage isis caliphate has been 100% destroyed under the trump administration. and its barbaric leader, al baghdadi, is gone, killed, over. and the world's number-one terrorist, qassem suleimani, is likewise dead. as commander in chief, i never forget for one instant the immense sacrifices we ask of those who wear this nation's uniform. already you have known the krushting pain of losing a brother in arms. today we remember an extraordinary cadet who made supreme sacrifice. in an accident last year, c.j.

morgan. we're deeply moved to be joined by his father, christopher morgan, and c.j. was something very special. christopher's a secret service agent, a tough guy, great guy. great son is looking down right now. christopher, i want you to know that we will carry c.j.'s blessed memory in our hearts forever. thank you very much. thank you. [ applause ] tomorrow america will celebrate a very important anniversary. the 245th birthday of the united states army. unrelated, going to be my birthday also.

i don't know if that happened by accident -- did that happen by accident, please? but it's a great day because of that army birthday. and as you know, the army's first commander in chief, general george washington, called the fort that stood on this magestic point the most important post in america. its strategy tick location on the hudson river was vital to our war for independence. if british ships gained control of this river, they would have divided our young nation in two. so american soldiers stretched a massive metal chain across the waters of the hudson from west point all the way to constitution island. i saw a piece of that chain. it's incredible. no enemy ship even dared try to

cross. every link in that great chain was formed from over 100 pounds of pure american iron mined from american soil and made with american pride. together those links formed an unbreakable line of defense. standing here before you more than two centuries later, it is clearer than ever that general washington's words still hold true. west point is still the indispensable post for america. the vital ground that must not lose. and the survival of our nation still depends on the great chain reaching out from this place. one made not of iron but of

flesh and blood, of memory and spirit, of sheer faith and unyielding courage. today each of you becomes another link in that unbroken chain forged in the crucible known as the united states military academy. the greatest on earth. it has given you soldiers that you can rely on to your right and to your left. and now we are entrusting you with the most noble task any warrior has ever had the privilege to carry out. the task of preserving american liberty. as long as you remain loyal, faithful, and true, our enemies don't even stand a chance. our rights will never be stolen, our freedoms will never be trampled, our destiny will never

be denied, and the united states of america will never be defeated. with the grace of god and the heroes of west point, america will always prevail. nothing will stand in your way. nothing will slow you down. and nothing will stop the west point class of 2020 from achieving a true and lasting victory. god bless you. god bless the united states army, and god bless america. congratulations. thank you very much. thank you. [ applause ] >> all right, everyone. you are watching president trump there conclude his commencement address at west point in new

york at about -- just under 30 minutes. it lasted about 30 minutes. we'll break down all of what he said. quick summary, he stayed on script for most of it. a prepared speech congratulating the students, acknowledging their sacrifices, thanking their parents. he talked about the history of the military and all the generals that have walked through the halls of west point and went on to change the destiny of the world in so many of the battles that we have come to know. the president there as well touting a little bit of his own record, talking abouting what he has done on -- talking about what he has done on behalf of the military and the accomplishments he's achieved. at one point going off script acknowledging that tomorrow is also his birthday that coincides with the birthday of the u.s. army. we have a lot to unpack here from the president's comments. i want to bring into the conversation right now retired colonel lawrence wilkerson, former chief of staff for secretary of state, colin powell. colonel wilkerson, it's great to

have you with us. let me get your general reaction to how you saw the tone of the speech, the message of the speech, and more importantly what the president had to say generally. >> well, having written more than 400 speeches for colin powell, part when he was chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, i know about speech writing. i've got to say that was not a bad job. my first reaction was somebody got to him with a heavy dose of valium and told him "do not leave the teleprompter under any circumstances." that's the only way i can figure it out. other than blaming china for the virus and some really exaggerated statements about what he's done for the military -- by the way, the budget has not dropped for the past 15 years really below cold war levels and exceeds cold war levels, and that was before donald trump did anything. somebody got to him and said,

"you need to regain some political ground, and if you're going to do this very dangerous thing at west point, bringing all these people back during this pandemic, you need to capitalize on it for some real political gain, not the kind of political gain you try to get with your base. you need talk to the independents, you need to talk to the american people." and he adhered to the script. >> not to go on a tangent, but he did at one point as you mentioned try to out to a little of his personal record for what he's done with the military. i'll kind of highlight some of his points that i jotted down. he said that his administration is rebuilding the military that had been decimated and devastated. he said that he is spending or investing $2 trillion in the armed forces. at one point he talked about a hypersonic missile and how fast it could travel and hit within 14 inches of its target. he then talked about the space force saying it's a big deal. and then he went on to talk about destroying the isis caliphate as well as killing the

iranian general suleimani. he is in front of young cadets who are about to go into the world, who are there to celebrate their moment, and the president seemingly using it as an opportunity to rightfully or wrongfully or incorrectly out to his achievements for the military. >> well, i think that's true. it's understandable given the venue of the speech. but at the same time, someone like me who, for example, just finished reading west point professor's bokin's book "the cost of loyalty," i know how corrupt a lot of remarks he made. i also know how we are confronting a pandemic that is a far greater threat to this country, has killed more people than all our wars since world war ii. we're confronting it in a manner of competence that staggers the world's imaginations. we're not dealing with real threats to the united states and

its people while we're continuing to deal at the trillion dollar-plus level with threats that are far less, and this president is trumping those, if you will, right here on the ground at west point. i understand the venue, and i understand why he wants to do that from the venue's perspective. but in terms of america's national security, he has done a disaster. >> colonel wilkerson, stay with me. i want to bring our panel back into the conversation. we have with us colonel jack jacobs, medal of honor recipient, author of "the plot to betray america." jennifer rubin and congressman ted lieu. there was a moment for me that was ironic given what's played past couple of days. the president talking about the history of the military in preserving the union, fighting against slavery in the south. and the -- and the fight to free slaves and preserving those who

wanted to break there country up. this is -- break this country up. this is the same president who earlier in the week did not want and said absolutely no to the plaer military renaming confederate bases to modern names or heroes of the u.s. military. >> yeah. i think that was one of the many ironies of the speech. the president always read was a teleprompter like it's the first time he's ever seen those words. goodness knows whether he understood or even cared that they directly contradict the notion the notion that he is honoring losers who took up arms trait traitorously so against the united states and names are preserved shamefully by bases around the united states. that probably did escape him. i had three quick points that i took away from the speech. first, i'm going to differ a bit with the colonel in terms of equality of the speech. this was just chock with one

cliche after another, one weird analogy after another. no poetre to it. i don't think he used the word "constitution." i think this is a typical trump speech which he is in love with the bells and whistles, the tanks and the guns, and this is once again him getting to play toy soldier. second, it was remarkable that trump can make a graduation speech all about him. and about his record. and third, much of which he touted simply isn't true. colonel wilkerson made clear about the military spending. but it's also true that trump hasn't ended endless wars. we still have troops in iraq. we still have troops in afghanistan. and in fact, he needlessly involved us in a confrontation with iran, almost creating another war. his boogieman of we don't do

rebuilding is meant i think to be a slam at caprior administrations. what he left out of world war ii is after we fought we helped build and rebuild democracy and so it's now whole and free. i think this was very typical of trump, and i do agree, however, with the colonel that he was under strict direction not to go off script. aside from hamming it up about his birthday, he generally did. and i suppose on balance i'd rather have a poorly christi ll crass speech, than trump extemporaneously speaking. >> congressman, i want to ask about another moment that i personally thought, again, ironic given the president's track record over the past three years. i want to read from the speech itself. this is an excerpt provided to us. he said, quote, what has historically made america uneat is the during ability of its institutions against the passions and prejudices of the

moment. when times are turbulent, when the road is rough, what matters most is that which is permanent, timeless, enduring, and eternal. give me your take on that. you're a member of one of the institutions in this country that upholds the democracy in this country. there is a president, though, who seemingly almost attacks every institution we have in this country, at least changing the norms of many of these institutions. >> that's correct. let me first again congratulate the new officers of the united states army, and we honor them for the justice departmeupcomin. i thought donald trump was fine at reading the teleprompter. i'm glad he stuck to his script, although i did think the speech was long and somewhat boring. the specific phrase the president himself has not lived up to it. he repeatedly attacks the u.s. constitution, attacks our judiciary, the free press. he goes after our democratic institutions. and that's why it's so important

that we have a congress that is trying to hold him accountable. very pleased that last term the voters flipped the house and then this november, the voters have a chance to vote again in nationwide elections. >> malcolm nance, want to give you a chance to respond to the president, roasting the fact that navy lost the commander in chief cup to army for the last two years. i know you're a member of the navy. i'll give you a chance to respond. more importantly, give me your reaction to the speech and what you made of it. >> okay. first off, i guess he forgot that navy broke that record again and has now won. that's like donald trump. he makes his own reality. look, that speech -- let me speak again as senior enlisted here because you have a fine room assembled. that speech was dull as dishwater. it was like a fifth grader's memorial day speech from the front of a stage in front of the

parents. all it was was a series of platitudes, places he's never -- never learned about. you know, he couldn't say, you know, point duhawk where the rangers scaled the walls off normandy. it's like rangers going up cliffs in normandy. he doesn't know anything about the pacific war and douglas macarthur and the battle to retake the philippines or tara wa or iwo jima or any of those things. my dad was 15 when he served in the pacific in 1944. donald trump even speaking those words is a dishonor to him. but finally, he really doesn't seem to understand that this is not a set piece for his advertisement. which is -- you're not going to hear a word out of him in his ads. you'll see videos of him saluting soldiers and looking presidential and receiving a copy of the honorary swore. barack obama did this way better. there was nothing to remember

from this speech. there was very little for the service members to take away from it. great we have supersonic missiles -- so does russia and china. i'm just glad it's over. >> colonel jacobs, malcolm, i appreciate that. we always appreciate your insights. let me, candle jacobs, bring -- colonel jacobs, bring you in for a moment. i want to remind vurts the voour-- the cadets were brought back so the president can deliver the speech. now that you have heard the speech and not to take anything away from those that were graduating, but the fact that their families are there and they're watching from home, do you think that speech was worth what we just witnessed? >> well, even if it was worth it, we can always -- we can always watch it on television in any case. didn't have to bring all the cadets back. >> right. >> no, no. i'll do a little riff on malcolm's observation. not only was dull and

platitudinous, it seemed three times as long as it was. without trying too hard to make ad homenum castigations, despite years of practice, president trump still can't read a teleprompter. it's just -- even if it were a good speech -- which is was not -- the delivery's just absolutely impossible. if we got a minute, i'd like to bring up one thing he mentioned which is worth reiterating and discussing very briefly. he made a very sharp distinction between mounting conventional operations against hostile forces on the one hand and rebuilding countries or building countries or building infrastructures and defense capabilities of friends and allies and so on. we should not make that distinction to a greater or

lesser extent. if we want to be safe, one of the things we have to do is to make sure that our friends and allies are capable of defending themselves, and you can't do that just with aircraft carriers and -- and missiles that are really, really accurate. so we can't -- we can't divorce building the capability of friends and allies with the defense of our republic. >> colonel wilkerson, i want to give you the final word on this subject. when you kind of look back at whether or not this was worth to bring these cadets, the 1,100 cadets to attend the ceremony so this president would have his opportunity to speak to them, the message that he delivered today from your opinion, was it worth it? >> not at all. i'm glad the other speakers brought that up. the real tragedy of this experience is just what they intimated and what you just intimated. that is that we did it at all the way we did it. this is in defiance of most of the medical advice that is

coming into the administration. it's in defiance of our epidemiologists at the national task force for election crises who briefed us the other day that we are in for a second wave that is probably going to make the first look calm. if that's the case, then we are doing things now to exacerbate, deepen, and make more profound that second wave. this was just an illustration from the president of the united states using the military academy as a political prop of that very thing. that's the saddest thing about this in my estimation. >> congressman lieu, if i could get your thoughts, as well, as we wind this conversation down. do you think over the last couple of weeks that we've seen the way the president has used the military, that staging of that photo op outside of st. john's church, the apology from mark milley, the rejection of the use of the insurrection act

by the defense secretary. has this president undermined the standing of the american military? >> donald trump has undermined himself. our military remains great because our personnel understand that they took an oath to the constitution, not to donald trump. and when we see donald trump now embracing confederate images and symbols, that rubs people the wrong way. and by the way, all these images you're seeing at west point, this is a union army. we won. we should not have army bases named after traitors and losers. i hope that the pentagon now reverses itsstici decision and ban on confederate flags, navy and marines have done it. time for air force, army, to do the same. >> colonel, your thoughts, as well. definitely a little bit of damage control here needed for the military just given the fact that the president put them in a difficult situation. what does the military need to do, both its civilian and

military leadership going forward to maintain both the trust and the confidence of the american people? >> you know, it's interesting that when general milley did what he did and then reversed himself and apologized, it was -- the latter was the smartest thing he could do. we've got more than two million kids in uniform watching what happens, watching what the chain of command does. they've been imbued with the notion that the military establishment is not for domestic political purposes, and they need to see a confirmation of that. what has to happen now is that the chain of command needs to continue on that line and reinvigorate the military establishment with the notion that it serves the defense of the republic. >> yeah, jennifer rubin, your final thoughts. when we talk about where we stand with the debate we're having about the presence of the military or national guard on the streets of america being used to kind of break in rank,

if you will, from the secretary of defense, mark milley, and really this debate now that rages on about the use of confederate names and monuments. has the military in this country been politicized by donald trump in a detrimental way? >> i think he's tried to with every fiber of his being, and i think what happened this week is the military said no, not here, not us. and what struck me i think throughout the speech was that the military has been imbued with honor, with dignity, with respect for the constitution, that donald trump is entirely lacking. it's sad. it's pathetic that they have a commander in chief that is unworthy of them. they are magnificent. they are the best in america. they do understand their obligation to the constitution and not to trump specifically or any ideology for that matter.

i think in a way this was anti-climactic. the best speech of the week was general milley who really explained what the obligation of the military is. that should have been the address to west point. that would have been a speech worth giving. >> and last but not least, our senior enlisted as he likes to refer himself, malcolm nance, going forward what do we need to see happen given the debate that's raging in this country from the military leadership in this country, from these young cadets as they assume their new roles? >> i don't think they need to do anything going forward other than doing what they're doing now. that's maintaining the honor and dignity of the armed forces. staying out of politics, as ener general milley made clear, carrying out their duty so long as they understand unlawful orders to take to the streets and put bayonets to american citizens are just that. they have an obligation to disobey unlawful order as they

have an obligation to obey all lawful orders. one last thing about the confederate flags. there is a place for confederate flags on u.s. military bases. they're right alongside the captured flags of isis, al qaeda, the north vietnamese, and the nazis. those flags need to be in a museum showing the spoils of battle against these traitors. every base needs to be renamed. there are lots of great members of the armed forces. you know, airman chapman, sergeant chapman, lost in afghanistan, change ap hill to his name. ft. bragg, change it to, you know, ft. gavin. the great airborne commander who jumped in world war ii, jumping jim gavin. these need to change. this heritage needs to go away. >> i want to thank you all of you for joining us. incredible panel. malcolm, colonel, jennifer rubin, congressman ted lieu, and colonel lawrence wilkerson. thank you all for joining us on this important day.

i appreciate your time. and coming up, in a late-night tweet, donald trump postponed his campaign rally in tulsa. we're going to bring you the latest next. people in a place. but when you have the chase mobile app, people in a place. your bank can be virtually any place. so, when you get a check... you can deposit it from here. and you can see your transactions and check your balance from here. you can detect suspicious activity on your account from here. and you can pay your friends back from here. so when someone asks you, "where's your bank?" you can tell them: here's my bank. or here's my bank. or, here's my bank. because if you download and use the chase mobile app, your bank is virtually any place. so visit chase.com/mobile. because when you want to create an entirely new feeling, the difference between excellence and mastery is all the difference in the world. the lexus es. a product of mastery. experience amazing at your lexus dealer.

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once-daily trelegy. we know times are hard and we're here for you. find support at trelegy.com. your rally in oklahoma is set for june 19th. is that on purpose? >> no, but i know exactly what you're going to say. >> well, i'm just asking -- i've not got anything to say -- >> think about it as a celebration. my rally's a celebration. >> all right, when donald trump

announced that his first rally in three months would be on juneteenth, the day that commemorates the end of slavery in this country, it was understandably met with indignation given his fraught relationship with the black community, and protests calling for racial justice. what's more, the rally was being held in tulsa, oklahoma. that is the site of a racist massacre 99 years ago this month where an estimated 300 african-americans were killed. well, in a world where we've grown accustomed to critiques of the trump administration falling on deaf ears, turns out this is one time they may have actually listened. late last night, trump tweeted that out of respect, out of respect for his african-american friends and supporters, he would postpone the rally one day to saturday, june 20th. joining me now is nicole hannah jones, pulitzer prize winning staff writer for "the new york times" magazine. it's great to have you with us. thanks very much for joining us. first of all, give me your reaction. what do you make of the

president -- i guess the way he said it, to give him the benefit of the doubt, just in this one instance, out of respect for the african-american community deciding to postpone it to june 20th? >> well, i think clearly he was receiving pushback even from his surrogates and black people who normally defend him, that was clear from the interview clip that you just showed. so in this case, he bowed to the pressure. >> explain to us and explain to our viewers a little bit why he is either tone deaf that he does not know about these things -- do you think he does them deliberately? the other aspect that came out this week which was highly offensive was the rnc deciding to host the convention ceremony, the rnc convention in jacksonville, florida, on another notorious day in this country's history, the axe handle massacre. >> yeah. i don't try to get into his head and figure out how much of these are just gaffes and ignorance

and how much is actually strategy. what i will say is there's lots of white americans who are ignorant about the day of juneteenth and what it stands for. we have no national emancipation day in this country. but a lot of this sometimes feels like trolling. i can't predict what's in his head. what i can say is to -- we know that campaigns when they're going to have big events, they research the communities that they're going to have events in, they look at the calendar. so it would be hard to believe that no one on this campaign understood what was happening. >> yeah. i want to kind of share with viewers to kind of put it in perspective, since you brought up a good point that maybe not all americans know the history of juneteenth. certainly don't know the significant of that day. here's how one tweet summed it up. this is from bestkale, "i say this as a jewish person who lost family in the camps -- trump holding a rally in tulsa on juneteenth is like holding a rally at the gates of auschwitz on holocaust remembrance day."

>> yeah. i would agree. i mean, i think this is -- this is kind of what we've wrought as a nation, though, is really sanitizing the history violence in this country, sanitizing the history of the black experience. so this is why we're having arguments right now about whether we should still maintain statues and military bases to traitorous arm that fought to preserve slavery. in some ways, it's not shocking. we just now are deciding this year that maybe we shouldn't be doing these things. and i think -- i don't like to make comparisons to the oppression of other groups. but certainly that is true. and it has to have been kind of so egregious that he was going to hold this rally on juneteenth in tulsa, the site of the racial massacre, that even black surrogates who normally defend him pushed back. that's -- that tells you hoe

egregious this actually was. >> yeah, you brought up the point of our history and the fact that few americans know our history. a lot of that has to do with how we've whitewashed history, here we are almost 100 and some plus years since theent of the civil war. we're having a debate in this country where we don't understand what it means to have confederate monuments and names on military bases. as you said and as our previous guest noted, these were people who were considered traitors to the country who took up arms to break up the union that is america. >> absolutely. i mean, this is like -- you wouldn't go to the alamo and see a monument to general santa ana. you wouldn't go to pearl harbor and see monuments to the japanese. and yet all across this country, we see monuments to those who took up arms and killed hundreds of thousands of americans and lost, by the way, and these were monuments to white supremacy. the unifying theme is white supremacy. and the fact that you can go to

the capitol building and see five monuments to confederates, and we just now got a monument to black people who actually built the capitol building speaks to where we are. why is it 2020 and we're just now realizing maybe this -- this was a bad thing? >> let me play a sound bite from white house press secretary kayleigh mcenany on thursday talking about how dear the african-american community is to president trump's heart. watch this. >> the african-american community is very near and dear to his heart. at these rallies, he often shares the great work he has done for minority communities. he's working on rectifying injustices, injustices that go back to the country's history. it's a meaningful day to him. it's a day where he wants to share some of the progress that's been made as we look forward at more that needs to be done, especially as we look at the police reform. >> your reaction to that? if you had to watch and evaluate and critique the president's

record on race relations, on criminal justice reform, going as far back as to trying to address some of the underlying fundamental racist issues that we have in this country, how would you rate how this president has done so far? >> i mean, i think we can justice look to the polling. more than 90% of black americans are opposed to donald trump. they find that his policies have been harmful. 90% of black americans think that racism is a major problem in this country. we can look at what he did around police reforms that were supposed to help black americans get equal justice. he disbanded a lot of those consent decrees. we can look at the way that he has responded to black people protesting for their rights to be treated as full citizens in this country, threatening to call out the military to suppress dissent. if you want to understand how well a president has done for black communities, simply look to how black people themselves feel the president has done. and i think that's the answer. >> let me pivot a little away

from the president and talk about a broader discussion in this country, about the role of businesses and corporations. there's an ongoing push to recognize june teteenth as a federal holiday. you're getting businesses saying they will give workers juneteenth off. these include the nfl, nike, twitter, and square, just to name a few. put that in perspective for us. i mean, it's more than just acknowledging it's a federal holiday. that is a starting point. from your perspective, what else needs to be done to make sure that we are aware of the history of this country and have a good understanding of it for future generations? >> so we're one of the few countries in the americas that practice slavery, does not knowledge emancipation day. that's part of the larger sanitizing of the root and nature of slave in this country,

of trying to marginalize that and what it has meant for the country. i think it is a big deal that finally, you know, 401 years after the first africans were sold into the british colonies that we're trying to actually acknowledge what was done. and also, emancipation day or juneteenth is when we start living up to the founding ideals of the country. this is to me the easiest ask. you know, what are these companies doing about how diverse their work forces are. what are they doing about how diverse their leaderships are? i think that's what we really need to be seeing. these symbolic changes, they matter, but they don't matter nearly as much as the bread and butter changes that these companies should really be considering at this moment. >> one of the more important changes the country needs to do has to deal with police reform. let me play for you a sound bite moments ago from new york governor andrew cuomo talking about police reform. take a listen. >> we've seen the

demonstrations, the people of this nation have made their voice heard. they are outraged after mr. floyd's murder. the formula works is demonstration, protest, make your case, then make change, legislation, institutionalize the point that you were making and then reconciliation. >> let me pick up on that point, reconciliati reconciliation. can this country move forward collectively, all 00 states and territories without a serious conversation perhaps even a commission of reconciliation that investigates, that addresses a lot of these underlying issues because i think aloud sometimes about how many unarmed people were killed that we don't know about because

they were not videotaped in the '70s and '80s and '90s before cell phones came to scene. you cannot bring any kind of meaningful reform unless you know the facts about so many instances. do we need to have a national reconciliation of sorts? >> i think we do. if we're ever to heal the rift though i think you're using that in a different way than andrew cuomo. i think intelligence cuomo is using it in a way that's typical. let's move an and get past this and think about how can we come together? we can't until we actually as you are saying uncover all of the harm that's been done and move to rectify generational harm. passing some laws right now is helpful. that doesn't get us there. >> a debate that is going to continue on for some time. nicole hanna jones, thanks for joining us. we'll have more after the break.

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good day, everyone. i'm alex witt. a number of stories breaking across the country. in the past hour a president at odds with the military delivering the commencement address at the nation's highest military academies and details on how he was received for you. the dismantling of confederate stat statues and if you missed it this is a scene from a short time ago. we'll tell you what's happening there. also within this hour, activists scuffle with london police but it is a confrontation with a twist. it partly involves winston churchill. also unfolding for you today, new prospects for seattle's autonomous zone. the city's police chief will join me as coronavirus cases spike across the country. the president plans a big rally at an arena. to tell you about these unfolding stories a number to tell you the latest. we will begin with president trump just wrapping up his commencement speech at west point graduation ceremony. he praised the troops and made