good evening. i'm ali velshi. we begin with break news. atlanta's police chief, erica shields, is stepping down after a deadly officer shooting was caught on camera. here is some cell phone video of the incident. it is disturbing. police say they were responding to a report of a man asleep in his car blocking other drivers. atlanta police say brooks failed a sobriety test on the spot, resisted arrest and apparently got hold of an officer's taser. the video shows brooks running away before you can hear shots fired. today the georgia bureau of investigation released surveillance video that continues to show the incident

where the video ends. it shows brooks turning toward police, firing the taser before police fire on him and he drops to the ground. here's the mayor reacting earlier. >> while there may be debate as to whether there was an appropriate use of deadly force, i firmly believe there is a clear distinction between what you can do and what you should do. i do not believe that this was a justified use of deadly force and have called for the immediate termination of the officer. the georgia bureau of investigations is investigating the incident as well as the fulton county district attorney's office. joining me now, captain sonya pruitt, the captain of the montgomery county police department and chair of the national black police association, as well jelani cobb, a staff writer at the new yorker, an msnbc political analyst who has done a lot of

work, particularly on policing. thanks to both of you for being here. captain pruitt, you and i were just talking earlier today when this had not fully come out in terms of what the story is. there are a few things at play here. there is imagery of a man who has got the taser from police and may be turning to use it on the police, but at the same time, this is a man upon whom police were called because he was asleep, which is what a lot of people are wondering about. how does something like that end the way this one did? >> yeah. this is so tragic. i'm so sorry to hear about this and to see this. here's what i will say. it's so many things -- this is like a perfect storm. we've been dealing with the death of mr. george floyd and now we have another death at the hands of the police. in addition, we had an incident where some atlanta police officers were fired and all of

them were charged for an incident of excessive force with some college students a week or so ago. the most tragic piece of this is that there is no legitimacy left for the atlanta police department, with the citizens of of atlanta and with the mayor. she is really distraught about all of this. you get to the point of what do you do? people don't want to see any more death. this is why there is an examination of our police departments. the defunding which is a controversial work. these are the things that are coming into play, which is why it is so emotional and so tragic. >> jelani, let's talk about this. in the conversation over the last few weeks about defunding and apobolishing police, there y

be things and it's not idea for training and the workload they've got to do. one wonders one of this is one of those instances. a man parked in his car. there does not appear to be any threat of violence prior to police arriving on the scene, at least based on the information we have now. is there an alternative that we can be looking at so these things don't end in the death of a man? >> sure. this is exhibit a, what people are talking about with the defund the police movement that you're hearing so much about now. why? what is the law that's being violated? maybe some municipal ordinance about blocking a parking spot, but that's not something that you need law enforcement for. and there's another dynamic, which is simply the fact that you're bringing armed people into the equation that escalates the possibility of there being

violence. for a mundane kind of situation like this, certainly. and so when you look at the core issues that police that actually involve law enforcement, violent crime, assaults, people burglarizing people's homes, those kind of things that you would think that you really needed trained law enforcement officers for, they're not available for those kinds of things because they're responding to this kind of thing. >> katherine pruitt, talk to me about this. you and i discussed things that can be done better either by police or maybe not by police. how do we approach things that are nonviolent like this in a perfect world, forgetting the specific details about this case because we only know what we know so far and more will become available to us. what's the perfect way in which we deal with this? not having police or having

police that are trained so that nothing ever escalates? >> hey, this is going to take a lot of thought. when we talked earlier, we talked about reimagining police departments. instead of reimagining, we're going to have to reimagine training. we've been coming at it from a warrior standpoint instead of the guardian standpoint. deescalation training, yes, we have it. we're going to have to reimagine that, too, and talk about what that's going to look like. every case is a different one, and they should be taken on their face. they should be taken individually, but, again, what is muddying the waters is that the public has lost -- not losing but has lost confidence and trust in its law enforcement, and that is what's driving it movement and the uprisings that we're seeing. and every time we have another incident like this, we're going to be going backwards instead of forward. so we're really going to have to

do some hard and quick work. >> so, jelani, to that point i think what the captain is saying is we don't have a lot of information just yet and in each of these cases there may be things that merited what police did. i don't understand how it could be in this case. but the point is we need to be able to have the trust of the public in the police to be able to say we'll investigate this and you'll have a proper outcome. but in this moment, in this country that there's a deficit of trust that the people have in the police, particularly as it results in an interaction with a black man who ends up dead. >> sure. and, i mean, listen, i learned in 11 or 12 years that it's not in this moment. there's been a police distrust for decades. going back to the hip hop of the

90, outkast talked about how difficult it was walking with the pd. even outside of the violent concerns, the ways in which the police departments are used, and we saw this in ferguson, the ways in which police departments are used as a revenue stream disproportionately falls on the shoulders of black and browned communities as well, that also effaces the possibility of trust between the communities and police departments. they're not there to protect people, they're there to generate revenue by -- >> let me just interrupt, jelani, just to put some meat on the bones that you're talking about. in the case of ferguson, small police department, not enough revenue in the place really to even justify the way it's run, so everybody got a ticket for something. and a lot of young african-americans got tickets for things that became fines that when they were not paid became warrants. a lot of parents expressed concerns that as soon as their

kids got a driver's license, that's their on-ramp to the police department because that's how police stations and towns run on the back of tickets. >> talk to people in atlanta about that and see if it's applicable to the same thing. not just to single out atlanta in that way, lots of other communities. this is a whole complex of dynamics that have eroded and destroyed the possibility of there being trust between these communities and the police departments. for people not living in these communities, they don't understand this. it appears to be these people are not making any kind of sense and why are they always so down on police and the police are here to protect us. these are fundamentally two different relationships. >> captain pruitt, let me ask you going back to the situation in atlanta. here's what we believe we know, and the police have released the wendy's surveillance video and we have video taken by a

bystander. we believe the man was asleep in his car, possibly in a drive-through lane. we started with a guy who was asleep. what we see in the struggle, it's described that the struggle happens and the person they were trying to arrest takes the taser, runs away, continues to be chased, turns around and turns the taser in the direction of the police and gets shot. he didn't bring a weapon to the scene. in a vacuum, what's the way to handle this? >> you know, i'm not even going to try and -- there might have been a day where i might have said this is what we should do. i'm no there anymore. to jelani's point, you know, sometimes what people think we should do, and i'm talking about police officers, what they think is justified may not necessarily be necessary.

and also to jelani's point, i'm not talking about this one incident that has caused distrust. i'm talking about all the things we have going on in our country right now with the police, lack of adequate protection, systemic racism in policing, covid-19. it is highlighting all of the things that are wrong and vulnerable in underserved communities and this particular incident is just another one of many, many. you know, people are tired. our citizens are tired. officers are tired. black officers, we're tired. so, yeah, these are some really difficult questions to answer but we got to get to answering them. we have to do something. we have to teak soake some real really solid measures that's going to include the federal government, not just law enforcement. the people need to vote. it's so many, many aspects of this that we're going to have to take charge of.

>> on something you said -- go ahead, jelani. >> i just want to add something to this really quickly. i know for a fact there are going to be people who see that video and say why did he resist? why did he run away? why did he escalate the situation? it's going to be a line of argument. people have seen a police officer kneel on someone's neck for nine minutes. >> yes, yes, yes. >> they are afraid for their life. after amadou diallo was shot, i was pulled over by police officer for a traffic violation, i immediately got out of the car. i did the thing they tell you not to do. their logic is if independent getting o -- i'm getting out of the car, i'm escalating the situation. my logic is if they shoot me, i want the world to see it.

the vantage point is very different for someone who has seen george floyd for those 8:46 and thought that could have been me and you respond to a situation very differently. >> if i could add something to that, jelani. that's dear to my heart. i have two sons. every day i'm like what do i say? i have to keep changes my conversations. here's something that i tell my peers. if you police officer feels like he or she can articulate their fear, why can't a black citizen articulate their fear? a black person's peer is real also, jelani. i hear you. that is something we completely ignore in policing. well, the officer has to go home at the end of the day when it should be everyone should have to go home at the end of the day. >> that's so true. >> to your point about trust with the police, we have a statement from the outgoing

chief of police. "for more than two decades i've served beside the finest people in the police department. i've offered to step aside as police chief. apd has my support and mayor bottoms has my full support. it is time for the city to move forward and build trust between law enforcement and the communities they serve, which is a point that both of you have made this this evening. captain sonia pruitt, chair of the national black police association and jelani cobb, thanks to both of you. congresswoman gwen moore, i will speak to her next. moore, will speak to her next they will, but with accident forgiveness allstate won't raise your rates just because of an accident, even if it's your fault. cut! sonny. was that good?

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in the nearly three weeks of the tragic death of george floyd, national protests have had such a galvanizing effect on the conversation around policing, a new consensus that could very least call for reform. reform is coming quickly. just yesterday new york banned the use of choke holds, six years after eric garner. and minneapolis city council will create a new model for

cultivating safety. fundamental and lasting change may be harder to come by. congresswoman, you've been working on this for a long time. i want to address something that is being missed in a lot of this conversation. it's something that you talked about with respect to unions. you said i'm an ardent defender of unions. i think unions are very important in terms of bargaining for wages and benefits but i think it's outside the scope of a union to be able to negotiate a lack of accountability as it relates to police departments. we hear more and more that in some places it is the unions that are standing in the way of the necessary change that is required. >> well, it's the unions that have these what i call extra judicial benefits. if they, for example, commit a crime while on duty, they'veabi anyone to interview them for several hours. who does that? if you or i commit a crime, we're going to be taken to the

police station in the middle of the night in our house coat and slippers right then. it's these extra judicial privileges i think are unaccountable. it not just the police union but this bill we've put together addresses the sort of common denom ninator denominators, why districts attorneys don't even try to prosecute police officers. there's qualified immunity provisions and also the federal police misconduct statute, which they say the bar is so high, even when you watch someone strangle or lynch someone in public view, it's still a very hard bar to rise to. now, keith ellison is an outlier and i sat next to him on the financial services committee. i'm not surprised as a.g. he's taking this case up, but so many

d.a.s with not even have bothered because there's so many protections and lack of accountability for the police. >> i want to play for you what andrew cuomo had to say about this earlier today. what's happening with a lot of leaders, like you and governors and mayors, there are various calls to reimagine the police forces, as as i discussed with captain pruitt or defund or abolish the police force. here what's governor cuomo had to say about it. >> the police force is a function of what the community wants. the community pays for the police. the police don't exist despite the community. the police exist because that community wants them. and if that community that is funding them with their tax dollars want a different police

force, then they'll have a different police force. >> it's a basic course in civics, congresswoman, that andrew cuomo is giving us, but he's right. in a lot of police departments, the 18,000 of them around this country, a lot of them do seem like they're not public servants, that they're something else, that they're something bigger than public servants. for a lot of people who say defund the police, they're basically saying start again, start from scratch, build from the ground up, recruit properly, train properly, get the police we actually need. >> you know, i watched your earlier segment and i was really impressed by the police woman who was there. and i think everybody wants public safety. i mean, i haven't heard anyone make an argument that we don't want public safety, but there are so many occasions, like this occasion just today with the young man drunk, passed out, sick, who knows what in the

driveway of a wendy's. it was so restimulating. it was like ground hog day. i thought of dante hamilton in my own town, someone who was asleep on a public park bench. when we start thinking about reimagining public safety, what if the two white women who saw this black man lying out on a public park bench instead of calling the police had called 211 and said we need someone to come and make a health check. as a matter of fact, in the case of dante hamilton, two police officers did come out and determine he wasn't causing a threat, he wasn't doing anything wrong, he was waiting on his brother and the two women decided to call the police that they knew and had his cell phone number in their phones. and he came out and dante

hamilton went from being asleep to shot 14 times. so when you're looking for -- you know, and so dante hamilton had a diagnosis, a mental illness. you are allowed to be ill. and perhaps if someone else had come to the scene, like the two police officers with someone who is trained to make that intervention, they may have stayed with him until his brother arrived or called his brother. there might have been a completely different outcome. i think about it, one of the ways that i effected the skill was to put the deescalation p provisions in and i was inspired by dante harrison. especially today with the recent killing with this person in atlanta, how does it go from a person being asleep to dead?

it's unconscionable. >> and you heard jelani saying he got out of his car when he was pulled over by police. this man in atlanta may have been fearing for his life given from what we've seen right now. how do you go from a man asleep to a man dead is a good question. but part of what you're talking about, reimagining police, how are we going to get there? there's already a bit of a rift amongst people who say i want the police gone, i want them abolished versus a lot of democrats, for instance, who say i think there might be an ability to reimagine this so that some people who need to call 911 because you need police because someone is committing a violence offense unrelated to race, people need homeless support or some other intervention, can you get there? >> i think that's the argument that proponents for defund being

t being -- defunding the police make. i don't think republicans are choosing those words to egg nig what people are saying. the sheriff's department gets involved every day in einvestigate beie evicting people. what if we put more money in providing shelters and affordable housing for people to live. i hear in san francisco, for example, a one bedroom apartment could cost $1,800 a month. how could a person afford to live in that kind of community? maybe if we had other kind of interventions, we wouldn't have to call the police to evict people or call the people on people who are sleeping or passed out drunk in a wendy's

parking lot. i think i've been watching our leader with jim clyburn talk, and he reminds us of how, you know, burn baby burn sort of displaced the kind of just issues. so we're not going to fall into -- we're not going to go for the okey-doke. nobody wants to take public safety out of the equation. the reality is there are so many things that don't need a police response and i think that the bill that we put together tries to capture that. you know, you take a racial profile, ali. these traffic stops so often end in tragedy. a traffic stop is something we need to look at reimagining. i'm not sure if your taillight is out is something that should

end with your being pulled over shot and killed. maybe you just need a ticket. >> congresswoman, thank you for the work you're doing. democratic congresswoman gwen moore of wisconsin. you're watching msnbc. we hope you find these digital solutions helpful to bank from almost anywhere. deposit a check with your phone or tablet. check balances, pay bills, and more. send money to people you know and trust with zelle. explore all you can do with our digital tools

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now to the latest developments in the coronavirus pandemic. as cities and states continue to reopen, more than 115,000 people have died from covid-19 in the united states. this week nearly half of the country is experiencing a spike in cases, with 14 states reporting increases of 25 or more. meanwhile president trump is going to kick off a tour of campaign rallies in tulsa, oklahoma next week, a city that reported its highest ever increase in cases yesterday. take a look at this chart. this comes as the cdc issues new

guidelines advising against large in-person gatherings and release as grim forecast of 124 to 140,000 deaths by the 4th of july. joining me is dr. irwin redletter. because of george floyd's death and the protests around that and the fact that the white house stopped delivering those daily briefings, it seems to have come off the front burner, but in fact we are seeing several states, in texas, for instance, dr. fauci was warning 2,100 people in the state were hospitalized as of friday, intensive care units are running at 88% capacity in the houston area. this continues to be a matter of crisis proportions. >> there's no question about it, ali. so we have it's not only texas but it arkansas, it's arizona, it's many other states.

and i think we have what has occurred to me, ali, is we have this crisis, this confusion of the disease itself. it's nowhere near the end of even this first wave and we're going to get more waves after this, it's basically inevitable. but the problem is for people is, number one, we opened businesses and opened the scene far too early in my opinion. we put out a report warning without having enough testing done in local areas restaurants and barber shops, et cetera, we're not ready to be open. but we have had this confusion chaos going on in terms of messaging, that people are seeing one thing on television, they're hearing an announcement we're starting to reopen things and they assume that to mean we're going back to normal is a very dangerous assumption. the second thing is you see the white house saying things that, first of all, the first number of weeks of this crisis, we saw the president delivering messages that were just simply not true and contradicted by his

own public health experts. and now we're seeing the president with and without masks, basically without masks. we're seeing members of the administration without masks and we're asking people keep their masks on, keep the distance, et cetera, even though we're reopening. it's no wonder that the public is entirely confused and is going beyond what is safe. i think that any assumption that this is getting better now or done, it's not. >> and the one guy who has been been a straight shooter in the administration about this has been dr. anthony fauci, who, by the way, said he's not talking to trump much these days. here's what he said. let's listen together. >> when you are in a large crowd, if you have the congregation of people that are much, much close to each other, you definitely increase the risk that you will either acquire or spread infections. there are some people that are going to do that anyway, no matter what i say.

but the issue is if they do, please wear a mask all the time. >> so, irwin, i play that because the president's having a rally in tulsa next week in which they are not actually calling for social distancing or masks. >> yeah. it's really crazy. and not only that people have to sign a release that will hold harmless the administration if they happen to get covid. i don't know what to make of that kind of message, but people will go anyway, they'll stand next to each other, they won't be wearing masks because the president won't be wearing a mask. another source of reemergence and reinvigorating this infection, which is completely out of control in so many places, ali, as you pointed out. >> a professor from harvard was saying we're about 115,000 cases right now, estimates we'll get to 125 to 140,000 plus by july.

he says we're going to cross the 200,000 mark and we will do that before we have a vaccine or a treatment. >> absolutely. in fact, i've been telling people that by the end of 2020, we could probably see a quarter of a million deaths in the united states. i think that's entirely within the realm of possibility. i'm also concerned there's been this reassurance that we'll have a vaccine by the end of 2020. i still think that's virtually impossible, so we should not be counting on that. >> you're not wishing against it. but there are reasons if you're going to take a vaccine and inject it into every willing person because there will be no greater demand for a vaccine than the one we get for, this you do actually have to make sure it's safe and doesn't cause some other problems. >> the advanced research could be accelerated. that's a question of money and mission. what you cannot accelerate safely is the human trials. certain amount of people that need to be given the vaccine and there needs to be a waiting

period before we mass distribute it because it may take months and months for the side effects that could be very dangerous to show up. we have to be extremely careful about that. that's really the limiting factor, how long do we need for the human trials and that's going to limit how fast we can get this whatever vaccine out there. >> we can do a moon shot and do all those things with the research and some of that is under way, but the testing, you need to find out whether people have a reaction to things. if you rush that, that could be very serious. you'll have more people taking this vaccine in a short apartment of tiamount of time other than any other vaccine ever. dr. irwin redletter is the professor for national disaster preparedness at the columbia university. >> out of atlanta, the city's police chief stepping down after a deadly afternoon shooting last

night caught on camera. after responding to a report of a man asleep in his car -- that was the call, a man was asleep in his car, police say 27-year-old rashard brooks failed a sobriety test that was administered on the spot and then resisted arrest, which is where this video picks you apparently. he then according to the video and the police got ahold of one of the officer eaves ta's taser away, turn around and turned the taser at police and was shot. surveillance video was released, the video you're looking at right here. he drops to the ground. we're going to have much more on this breaking story throughout the night. meanwhile, a barrage of controversy once again swirling around the attorney general, bill barr, and his justice department. you'll remember these dramatic pictures from outside the white

house of smoke bombs, pepper balls and police on horseback clearing a peaceful crowd so the police could have a photo-op. now more than 1,200 former department of justice officials have signed an open letter calling for an internal investigation into barr's role saying we are disturbed by attorney general barr's possible role in ordering law enforcement personnel to suppress a peaceful domestic protest. let's bring in the former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst. she signed the letter i just mentioned. in that photo, maybe we got the video of the president and bill barr and mark millie wamilley w towards the church.

he apologized. said the military shouldn't have been involved, shouldn't have been in full uniform. people are beginning to lock ok this and say there's something very wrong about this. but the inconsistency of the reporting that we get from bill barr, that part is at least consistent. >> that is consistent. what we know about bill barr is he's somebody pretty comfortable lying to the american people. he lied during the mueller investigation about what mueller's role was. he's generally -- he has abused prosecutorial power, witness the flynn case and the dismiss al for o for one of the president's buddies. he abused presidential power by reducing the stone sentence. he's very comfortable working against the system and destroying justice. he's also comfortable collects himself a little army, which is totally inappropriate, gathering dea officers and putting them in

uniforms where they didn't display what their name was and ordering them around. originally the white house said he did give the order to clear the square. he admitted it and denied it. there are conflicting reports. he said it wasn't a peaceful protest. i was watching on television when garrett haake was reporting and it was a peaceful protest. it was a peaceful protest and a lot of people are worried. this justice department, he's completely corrupted it. i do think president biden's first and most important job is to choose that attorney general to try to reestablish a sense of justice and decency in the country. >> let me ask you, for all the things you've talked about, there's definitely some political problem with this because western democracies have always believed that the role for police is domestic, the role for the military is offshore, it

for foreign incursions and things like that. but what do you believe -- do you believe any laws were broken or is this just unseemly? >> i think the constitutional rights of the protesters their first and fourth amendment rights were trampled. i do think laws were broken. there are other lawsuits that will do it as well. it's all going to come out. those of us who still somehow maintain some sense of hope and optimism about the department of justice because we're so committed to it think that an internal investigation may bare some fruit and may be helpful down the road. let me just say for barr, it everything. it's the lying, it's the prosecutorial abuse, it's essentially excusing everything the president does, it's taking case of his buddies. even on the police cases you've been talking about tonight, barr has shut down basically the investigation of police cases.

it started with sessions refusing to allow descent decrees. barr has kept that going. the aareric garner case. that was barr's decision not to prosecute against the advice of the career department of justice criminal section lawyers who knew how to prosecute police cases. before sessions and barr, there were investigations into police activities and the special litigation section would get dissent decrees. they allow oversight of these police departments to try to make improvements. under barr's justice department, there isn't that. if there had been an eric garner case, maybe there would have been a special litigation investigation. maybe george floyd would be a alive. they've shut everything down that's decent and right about the department of justice. >> the dissent decrees, there

was at least some sense there was oversight other than locally whether a police department was exceeding its authority as it related to civil rights and that doesn't happen under this administration. cynthia, thank you for joining me. cynthia is a former prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst. large corporations grapple with the call for social change. some seem to be happenndling it better than others. that's next. ndling it better than others that's next. while helping you manage your blood sugar. with nutrients to help support immune health. they will, but with accident forgiveness allstate won't raise your rates

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i want to bring you some live pictures of a breaking news story that we are covering. these are now crowds gathering, protesters, in atlanta. this is where less than 24 hours ago a man died at the hands of police again, and it has caused a great deal of tension in the city of atlanta. the police chief has resigned today. the georgia bureau of investigation is investigating it. what this was about is there was a man apparently asleep in his car in a drive-through at a wendy's. police were called. the man was given a sobriety test. he didn't pass it, according to police and a struggle ensued. it was caught on video, somebody videotaped -- had it on their phone. it does show him struggling with the police, getting away. surveillance video from the wendy's, can you see a fairly large crowd now moving around the area. police say that he took one of the officer's tasers, ran away,

turned around and appeared to fire the taser in the direction of the police officers and then he was shot. he died in the hospital. joining me now as we cover this, and we can just keep these pictures up here. my friend roland roland martin the author of the first, president barack obama's road to the white house. there's a lot going on here. there is a lot to think about here. there was a struggle but the first call came in and this is what so many people who are talking about abolish and defund the police are saying. the call came in about a man asleep in his car. and somehow the man is now dead. what do you make of this? >> right. that is the fundamental issue we're facing. that is how you escalate a situation from sleeping in a car to he is dead. even if you factor in watching that video where he grabbed the taser but he is running away, is it actually necessary for the police officers to pull his gun and fire at him shooting him in the back?

same thing. of course walter scott, so many other stories as well. what justifies the actions of a police officer? normally they say i am fearing for my life. but he is running away. and so do you have to use deadly force for a guy that's running away? you got his car. you probably got his license. you can track him down. you don't have to kill him. >> right. the original crime was he was asleep in his car. the argument, well, he is some kind of menace to society. the reason you were called is he was asleep in his car. >> right. the fundamental issue that we're seeing in these police departments can officers de-escalate situations? can you use common sense and judgment when dealing with people and that is the problem. granted we do not know what transpired in terms of when they woke him up but this is what is frustrating to people, that a person is dead. you cannot bring him back to life. did you have to use force?

that is why mayor keisha lance bottoms said, frankly, that was too much. and she said i'm sick of this. police chief has to go this is a mayor who understands and more of these mayors are getting far more bolder when it comes to dealing with the police officers as opposed to making excuses. >> so one of the things said to me earlier today, earlier in the show, part of it is this issue that having seen this video of george floyd and this experience so many black men in the country fear at hands of police one begins to start to even understand the resisting of arrest because some people think they are going to die at the hands of police if they are in police custody. >> there was a video that went viral yesterday ali of a young, black girl. a police car pulls up and she immediately starts to cry. the officer, a white female gets out and was con soelg her and said i just simply wanted to say

hello to you and she is consoling her. think of that trauma of being a young african-american and an older african-american, a black male. when you see that police car in your rear view mirror, you know how things can escalate so quickly. i go back to the sandra blan video. she is pulling out of a parking lot driving down the street. the dps trooper in texas follows her. he waits for her to make a mistake. she doesn't use a turn signal. she thinks she is getting out of his way. what ends up happening? she gets arrested and then all of a sudden dies in jail. that is the fear of african-americans that a simple stop can end up being death for one of us. that is real and that's trauma. that's trauma carried every day that affects our health. >> so this is the thing. when you look at things like eight can't wait the idea of things police departments can do to de-escalate things. some of them do not seem to come

normally or naturally to our police. >> no. >> that would require some training, possibly more than the resources our 18,000 police forces have at hand. >> it doesn't come natural to police when encountering black people. we have seen videos involving white suspects where the cops use de-escalation and i saw this one video this guy had a hatchet in his hand and the cop is backing up, backing up, putting down, yet if you show the video of the young man in dallas who was mentally challenged, playing with a screwdriver, the mother calls the cop who says i can't do anything to get him to stop within 30 seconds he is dead. kajima powell killed shortly after mike brown, 16 seconds from the moment the police officers arrived and he had a butter knife in his hand. same thing. he is dead. and this is why, defund the

police talks about shifting dollars to mental health because too many police officers don't know how to deal with people with mental illness or know how to de-escalate. they approach the car with their hand on their gun as if something is going to happen and that is dangerous for black men and others in this country. >> i got a minute left. one of the things, the other thing which you and i used to discuss at length when discussing ferguson is the degree to which pulling young, black people over in their cars is a remarkable source of revenue for many towns across this country. >> yes, absolutely. you have speed traps. revenue generators. and of course cities are built around that. if people go to the website, look at the department of justice's report on ferguson, some 67% of households had outstanding tickets, and so you are taxing the poor with this tail light or this sort of instance. that is the deal. i got stopped the other day in virginia coming home because my

right headlight was out because there was a short in it and i can tell you i was very calm but i'm telling you, being black you got to wonder, okay. what kind of cop am i going to get? young cop, old cop, ticked off cop, calm cop? luckily it went great. i was on the phone with a couple people and it was all calm but again when you're black that is a fear when you see a police officer in that rear view mirror. >> thank you as always. i'm sorry we have to keep talking about this. roland martin the host of "roland martin unfiltered" and the author of "the first president barack obama's road to the white house" and much more to come at the top of the hour on the breaking news out of atlanta where a black man has been shot and killed by a police officer and the city police chief has resigned. chief has resigned d congestion , take allegra-d... a non-drowsy antihistamine plus a powerful decongestant. so you can always say "yes" to putting your true colors on display. say "yes" to allegra-d.

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welcome back. we begin this hour with breaking news. protests are breaking out in atlanta tonight where the chief of police has resigned after another video surfaced of another black man being shot and killed by police. this is a live picture, looking at crowds gathering near the site. the shooting happened last night after atlanta police officers were called to a wendy's where this man 27-year-old rayshard brooks was allegedly asleep in his car while in the drive through lane. police gave him a field sobriety test and attempted to arrest him for driving under the influence. he