back. stop fighting! stop fighting! you are going to get tased! stop! you are going to get tased! >> he would have been boxed from and trapped. why did you have to kill him? >> i do not believe that this was a justified use of deadly force. >> breaking news on msnbc. outrage in atlanta. this new video of a black man shot and killed in a confrontation with police. the officer has been fired.

another placed on leave. the police chief quits. the scene in flames. dozens arrested. all adding fuel to the unrest over police use of force. >> new details on what's become an iconic moment for president trump. the new admission from the secret service and the multimillion-dollar cause of using the national guard for that presidential photo op. plus, a symbolism of statues from confederates to colonists to slave traders, the global push to topple statues of controversial figures. hear from europe's only black elected mayor. good morning to you, everybody. it is sunday, june 14th. >> it's been a busy night. we will get you caught up to speed. let's start with that breaking news in new developments overnight in the police killing of a black man in atlanta. >> there he is. you see his face there. but here is how many people are remembering him. this new video that is being released by the atlanta police

department that shows exactly what happened in the moments before e.r.rayshard brooks was friday night in that parking lot of wendy's fast food outlet. a warning here. some of the images might be disturbing to you. >> i think you have had too much to drink to be driving. put your hands behind your back for me. put your hands behind your back. >> officers tried to handcuff brooks. this video is from a police dashboard camera and it shows the three men all rolling around in a scuffle on the ground for a few minutes. before brooks eventually gets up with an officer's taser in his hand, he is running away and then you hear shots. in this surveillance video you can see brooks running with the taser. we are going to stop it seconds before he was shot and falls to the ground there. we want to play for you some of what the attorney representing the brooks family has to say. >> in georgia a taser is not a

deadly weapon. that's the law. that's what the cops are trained to do. it's not a deadly weapon. you can't say he ran off with a weapon that could kill somebody when you say it's not deadly. he had other options than shooting the man in the back. and we don't want to hear anything about, oh, he even pointed it backwards, because it's not a deadly weapon according to police officers and case law. he wasn't close enough to harm you with it. you could have run him down, but instead he got bullets in the back. we talked to some witnesses today who said that the officers went and put on plastic gloves and picked up their shell casings after they killed him. before rendering aid. we counted 2 minutes and 16 seconds before they even checked his pulse. >> 2 minutes and 16 seconds. that's going to be a rallying cry for many protesters going

forward. overnight indeed protesters were out on the streets, this time calling for justice for rayshard brooks. that wendy's, by the way, this is what is a result of it. it's where the shooting took place. it is on fire. or it was on fire overnight. and fires at nearby dumpsters burned late into the morning hours. >> police officer garrett rolfe whose voice you heard on the body cam has been fired. he is on the left. the other officer in the dashcam video devin bronsan has been placed on leave. >> reporter: growing outrage and questions over the death of rayshard brooks. >> i do not believe that this was a justified use of deadly force. >> reporter: atlanta mayor keisha lance bottoms announcing the atlanta police chief will resign. >> chief shields has offered to immediately step aside as police chief so that the city may move

forward with urgency in rebuilding the trust so desperately needed throughout our communities. >> reporter: on friday police shot and killed the 27-year-old. eyewitness footage shows the moment police tackle him to the ground. police say they had been called to a wendy's in atlanta because brooks was blocking traffic. he had fallen asleep in his car at the drive-through. officials say after failing a sobriety test officers went to arrest brooks. >> when they went to effect an arrest on the individual a struggle ensued. >> reporter: you see what appears to be brooks grabbing an officer's taser gun. he runs away. moments later police shots fired. >> oh! >> the suspect was then using that taser against the officer. the officer did discharge his weapon, striking the suspect. >> reporter: brooks later died in the hospital. an officer was injured. two officers involved in the shooting had been removed from duty spending the investigation.

>> we realize there is a tremendous amount of emotion, passion involved in these cases, and certainly with the way the environment is now it's only enhanced. we have advised the agents to expedite the investigation. >> reporter: at the protest atlanta native and rapper tvl.i >> it's not just a black thing. it's a fair and decent thing. >> this is a reflection of what is truly transpiring in our country. it's not just the city of atlanta. this is an issue that people are outraged. >> that was msnbc's erin mclaughlin. joining us is a political analyst and host of the rashard richie show. thank you for being here. you saw this video. what is your assessment of exactly what took place there? where did it all go wrong?

>> it went wrong because they decided to kill a man that should be alive. yes, there was an interaction. there was a fight and this is why police are trained to deal with situations like this. however, this could not, this should not, excuse me, have ended in lethal force. mr. brooks was intoxicated. he was being arrested for being intoxicated, and he decided to flee. well, he grabbed a taser. a taser, by definition, is not lethal. as a matter of fact, it is so non-lethal that officers who are trained, officers who go through the academy, they actually have to be tased themselves in order to be taser certified. if you are carrying a taser as a cop, nine times out of ten you had to go through a tasing yourself. and it is not considered lethal. so why is it that one cop said, okay, i need to kill this man,

and the other cop did not think that lethal force was necessary? >> and as we mentioned, you were just appointed to the newly formed atlanta use of force task force there. what could police have done to de-escalate this situation so that we don't have the ending that we have now? >> it's real simple. number one, you already have the guy's license and information. you are putting him under arrest. you know who he is. you have confirmed who he is. and you can set a perimeter and put out an apb to search him, find him. where was he going to go, all right? cops have not only the opportunity to find you by way of calling in backup and making sure that there is a significant search. they can also put out a warrant for your arrest. this was a non-violent offense that he was being arrested for, and that is an option always by law enforcement. remember just because someone can do something, it doesn't mean they should do something.

that's why community is now saying -- and we are not just talking about the black community. we are talking about communities across the planet. they are now saying that it is obviously time for policing to be re-imagined and that reimagining should many that life is held at the highest level of sacredness. >> and do you get a sense that's why there has already been change from the top? the police chief, who has been at the top of the force there since december of two, three years ago immediately resigning. and do you think that was the right decision? >> yeah, it was time for her to go. i will give you some insight. i was appointed to the mayor's police use of force committee. many of us on that council, we were going to recommend that the police chief be removed or resign because of problematic statements that she has made in the media and some tactics that she has basically defended as an

executive in law enforcement. i do commend her for resigning the right way. it seemed very diplomatic and she said she resigned because she wanted to make sure that there was trust restored, and she realized that she now is adversarial to that trust in the local atlanta community. i commend her for the way she got out. >> there is now three different jurisdictions that will be investigating this shooting. the attorney for the brooks family says that the officers picked up their shell casings instead of immediately rendering aid. will the actions after the use of force be scrutinized as heavily as those actions that led up to it? >> they should be because, once again, it is the expression that human life is not valuable or at least that human life was not as valuable. if you are hired to protect and serve and there is an unfortunate incident where you have to use deadly force as a member of law enforcement, your first obligation is to make sure that the individual who has been

injured, shot, or harmed by you or by one of your colleagues, that they are given first-aid immediately. this obviously was not the intent of the officers, according to many witnesses at the scene and i believe every single one of those witnesses. >> what is at the core of all of this? and george floyd would be alive today if they said, you know what? fake $20 bill, if it was that, not a big deal. some guy falling asleep in the drive-through or in the parking lot of a wendy's not a big deal. not something that we require the police to come to. if we didn't escalate things from there, both of those guys would be alive. >> that's true. they will be alive and they would definitely have to deal with some repercussion through the judicial system. but they are not getting to that point, and that is the argument of the community. they are not getting there. we are not allowing them to have their day in court.

we are allowing cops, police officers, to be the judge, jury, and ultimately the executioner of these individuals that should be allive. >> what will you push for in this newly formed committee in atlanta? >> i am pushing for policy reform. that is my advocacy in this committee. one policy reform is to train officers to de-escalate, to also make sure that officers take an evaluation, a psychological evaluation every six months to a year no matter what, to mandate cops involved in a deadly use of force incident to take a lie detector test immediately, and that's just the start. we have to get back to community policing. that is a big thing. we have come away from that. and we need to make sure that the executive level police officers are committed to reform. >> rashard richie, appreciate it. calls for police reform are

growing. several states in the past couple of days have been taking action. they have been outlining plans to reform local police departments. >> cory is joining us now in new york city. good morning to you. we have seen a couple of different plans so far. what have these states been doing to try to change things? >> reporter: yeah, good morning, guys. and the word reform is such a tough one because reform has been trying to be passed for years in various police departments. so now this word is being taken so much more seriously across multiple states and has become an overhaul. here in new york they are trying to lead that effort and it goes all the way down across new york state down to the local level, the governor signing an executive order requiring that each municipality police department work within its community to completely overhaul the policing system, including use of force tactics, by its training. anything when it deals with crowds and de-escalation policies. so all of this is going to be a

start from scratch effort. that's how the governor described it. he wants to bring all parties to the table and ultimately redesign these local police departments into what the people want. he described that yesterday. listen in. >> people still are protesting. you don't need to protest. you won. you won. you accomplished your goal. society says you're right. the police needs systemic reform. that was accomplishment one. now go to step two. let's sit down at a table with the local government, with the police, with the other stakeholders. how do we redesign the police department? we start with this. it's a blank piece of paper. what do you want the police department to be in new york city? let's design it. here is a pen. let's design it.

>> reporter: all right. and colorado also one of the first states to pass sweeping reform. several items to come out of this bill here, including banning chokeholds and corotid control holds, limits when police are allowed to shoot at people fleeing, which obviously we are just seeing a case of right now. and officers having to intervene in cases of excessive force. body-worn cameras must be worn and that footage must be released in 45 days and officers can be held liable for civil rights violations. in minneapolis, the police department will be disbanded in favor of a public safety organization. and minnesota is working right now to pass similar legislation to colorado, including a change on their warrior-style tactics, which dictates the use of deadly force. they are trying to also do a massive overhaul within the entire state. of course, as we move forward these are just the first few

states. we know of at least ten other ones passing reforms. guys. >> seems a little bit tougher than a blank piece of paper and a pen. we know that it's tougher than that. hopefully, these are some steps in reforming. cory coffin live in new york. thank you. the secret service has changed its story about what happened when peaceful protesters were forced from lafayette square earlier this month. >> the new information fails to answer perhaps the most important question about the incident. a live report on that from the white house next. my gums are irritated.

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. . new today the secret service is backtracking on a previous claim about its use of pepper spray on protesters. the agency now says it did use pepper spray to clear protesters from lafayette square ahead of president trump's photo-op on june 1st. >> monica alva is at the white house with the details on all of this. monica, some two weeks after all of this happening, the secret service apparently admitting to

what was apparent to anybody that was there? >> all the reporters there. >> reporter: exactly. this is a significant correction, guys. given that the park police have also now walked back, this assertion originally the federal agencies and law enforcement said that none of their personnel had used any of these chemical irritants or pepper spray. but as you point out, from our own colleagues on the ground and experienced all of this, that story never aligned with the reality that was seen on the ground and in these pictures that you are seeing here. what we to know is that those peaceful protests were pushed back so the president could walk to st. john's church for that presidential photo-op we have seen so many times. the question was, why, who ordered it. there is confusion. bill barr walked that back. we don't have a full picture of events. what we do know now is the secret service issuing this statement saying they basically went back and reviewed what they

originally stated on the record and are amending this correction saying, after further review the u.s. secret service has determined that an agency employee used pepper spray on june 1st during efforts to secure the park. the employee used this pepper spray in response to an assaultive individual. they are claiming maybe somebody threw a projectile at them or did something that would warrant this behavior. they said for so long that was simply not the case. you had the president. you had white house top administration officials, the trump campaign trying to blast the media for reporting this, in their words, incorrectly, when clearly through the eyes and feeling of our own people who were there for that confrontation, they knew that chemical irritants were used and now that is backed up on the record by the u.s. secret service. >> our own garrett haake was there. he said he felt it as well. it was strange after we saw those statements. now it appears it's been cleared

up a bit. monica, thank you. >> anybody who had sight or smell could tell exactly what was happening. so the president in the meantime is weighing in on exactly what people are protesting in the death of george floyd. here is a listen. >> i think you have protesters for different reasons and then you had protesting also because they just didn't know. i have watched. i watched it very closely. why are you here? they prl aren't able to say. we have seen it over the years. this was one horrible example, but you see other terrible examples. we can't let something like this. we have a bad apple go out and destroy the image of a whole -- of millions of people that take really good care of us and then you have a movement where they say let's not have a police department. >> joining us now is political correspondent with business insider. good morning to you. it's good to see you.

what message is this sending to protesters about basically the motives and how he is questioning their own motives? >> yeah, i mean, it's really interesting. it seems like the president is unable to say that racism and police brutality are a problem in this country. this has been the case throughout his presidency. it's not just right now. back in 2017 he said that, during the charlottesville protest and race riots there were, quote, very good people on both sides when the two sides in that case were neo-nazis and people against neo-nazis. so in this case he has repeatedly called the protesters thugs. he has quoted a racist police chief when he said that, quote, when the looting starts, the shooting starts. and he has suggested multiple times that the far left group antifa is behind some of the more violent scenes during these

protests, even though there is no evidence of that fact. i think it's worth noting that he has also refused to call out the fact that far-right individuals have been arrested on domestic terrorism charges in connection to the protests and that -- so that really raises questions about what his motive is when he is criticizing demonstrators in these protests and claiming that far-leftists are responsible for the violent while at the same time condemning people on the far right who have been charged in cases related to these. >> earlier in the week the president said he was finalizing an executive order to address policing and the use of force. of course, this is well before atlanta and that incident there, the deadly police shooting. you get a sense based on the reporting that you guys are learning that there is renewed urgency to whatever executive order there is? >> it's difficult to say. what i would say is that based

on everything that we have seen and heard so far about this executive order, it indicates that it's largely rhetoric at this point with very little follow-through. in other words, trump has repeatedly said this order is going to encourage police to act with more compassion and use force with more compassion, and also to, you know, to encourage better training and de-escalation tactics. outside of that rhetoric we haven't seen or heard any concrete indication that this executive order is going to result in meaningful change in the law enforcement community. i would even say that his last executive order targeting social media companies after he got mad at twitter for fact-checking him had more bite than this one on police reform. of course, that being said, we haven't seen the final draft yet and we don't know if there are going to be changes based on what's happened in the last couple of days. but just based on what has been reported so far and what i'm hearing, you know, this doesn't

seem like it's going to be super effective in bringing about the change that is needed in the police community. >> we are still waiting for executive orders on guns after the last mass shootings that were promised. >> yeah, another thing that we are watching this is this highly anticipated book from former national security advisor john bolton. it's called "the room where it happened." according to a release from simon & schuster, what bolton saw astonished him, a president for whom getting re-elected was the only thing that matter mattered, even if it meant endangering and weakening the nation. i am hard-pressed to identify any significant trump decision during my tenure that wasn't driven by re-election calculations. are we seeing evidence of this playing out? >> yeah, absolutely. we have seen that throughout his presidency. it's not surprising that an incumbent president would take action with re-election in mind.

we have seen this throughout u.s. history. in this case, what's different is like bolton and pretty much every democratic lawmaker has said is that, you know, the president was willing to extort a foreign power over getting re-elected. so that obviously kicks things up a notch and that's what got him impeached. what was interesting to me while reading these excerpts from the book was that bolton accused the house of representatives of, quote, impeachment malpractice because he said trump did so much more than what he was accused of in the impeachment hearings. why didn't john bolton testify in the hearing? you know, so that's kind of largely thee sense of what i'm hearing from democratic sources on capitol hill, anger at the former national security advisor for saving all of this for his book, you know, because they kind of see this as like an

abdication of his constitutional responsibility. >> we'll leave it there. i have been noticing a little bit of blow back about the title "the room where it happened." if anybody has seen "hamilton" it's from one the signature songs there. a lot of folks on broadway, who used to work at broadway, have been talking about it. talking about the misuse of that song and those words. we'll see if they go actually read the book. >> yeah. we are also keeping an eye on the latest developments in atlanta following that deadly police shooting. >> an attorney for the family of the victims is calling for justice. but he also says he is not even sure what justice would be. ago! "ok, so, magnificent mile for me!" i thought i was managing... ...my moderate to severe crohn's disease. yes! until i realized something was missing... ...me. you ok, sis? my symptoms kept me- -from being there for my sisters. "...flight boarding for flight 2007 to chicago..." so i talked to my doctor and learned- ...humira is for people who still have symptoms of crohn's disease after trying other medications.

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the police involved killing of rayshard brooks, this is in atlanta, he was shot in a wendy's parking lot after interaction with officers. >> one police officer, garrett

rolfe, has been fired on the left. the one on the right, devin brossen, has been placed on administrative duty. >> the "atlanta journal-constitution" there saying shooting angers city police chief steps down. all of this playing out in less than 48 hours. it is now adding fuel to the ongoing fierce debate over police reform. >> do we need to start over and rehire all the officers to retrain them? what other options do we have? the problem is that they have been given leeway to use lethal force for all too often and too often. i could say we want justice. i don't even care. i don't know what that is, and i have been doing this 15 years. i don't know what justice is anymore. is it getting them arrested, is it getting them fired, is it a chief stepping down? i know this isn't justice what is happening in society right now.

compare it to all of the videos online where it was a white individual that had a deadly weapon that wasn't killed, which we have also been looking at today, trying to understand why didn't they get shot? >> all right. let's bring in rachelle richie and myema watson, associate chancellor for civic engagement at rutgers university. what is your reaction to everything we have seen and heard in the last 18 hours or so? could this have been preventible from a policy standpoint? >> you know, i think from a policy standpoint we have to start looking at the police officers bill of rights and look at the union protections that gives these police officers the opportunity and the ability to get away with police brutality. when i saw this video out of atlanta it reminded me a lot of walter scott, you know.

this was a man obviously that also ran away from police and he was shot in the back. the only thing is that i'm concerned that, you know, walter scott, he did not have any sort of, you know, what would be considered a weapon in his hand. in this case, i fear that the police will be able to say, well, he took my taser, which could be considered a weapon. but then, you know, shooting someone in the back that's running away from you with a taser, which is not deadly, it's unconscionable. i am just tired. i mean, i'm -- you see this happen all the time. nothing is changing. and people are tired and frustrated. >> and you could see that frustration in the protests that have taken place. we have seen the images of that wendy's on fire and protesters out in the streets in atlanta last night during a pandemic, no doubt. contrast that, though, with what's being called the camden model of reform where even though, even through the george floyd demonstrations, camden,

new jersey, across the river there from philadelphia, has not had the level of unrest seen in other places. what's happening there? >> i think we haven't had the level of unrest -- the department was reformed. it was really taken down and reestablished -- [ inaudible ]. >> yeah, we are getting like every two words. it's really important words from nyeema. let's work out whether we can figure out that signal because really it is an important thing. camden has had riots in years past after mlk and such. in recent years, after they reformed their police department and despite riots all over the place after george floyd, it has

been fairly quiet and has been really a model for many, many police departments across the country. >> yeah, rochelle, while we try to fix the audio here, you know, in the george floyd case in minneapolis, you know, some jurisdictions have been banning chokeholds in the aftermath after the killing of breonna taylor. some departments are getting no-knock warrants. but neither of these two steps would have saved rayshard brooks. where does the discussion and the action need to go from here now? >> well, i think again this is about the police -- you know, in camden, i think people have to understand that camden, even though they had got rid of their city police department, i believe it was the county that took over and then they rehired 100 of those police officers from the city back onto this new force. so i think we have to be very clear about what we want here. we have heard defund, abolish, reform. so it's very hard for people to

get a really clear understanding of exactly what we need to focus on and what we need to do. look, minneapolis, you know, this -- a lot of times when you see police departments dismantle or whatnot is because of corruption and not necessarily because of police brutality, although i believe that police brutality is a form of corruption. but that's why camden went through the stages that it did. >> yeah, i am kind of surprised, to be honest, that mayor bottoms took this move so quickly. what do you make of the relative quick action taken by the atlanta mayor in forring the resignation, i guess, of the chief of police. the chief of police in minneapolis is wrought with problems, is still on the job. >> i think the actions that were taken was because that you saw

that what happened on that video was unacceptable. certainly you can see on the video a scuffle. you can see the gentleman running away. so you see him running away. so we have to ask, why? time and time again, when black men are unarmed with the police that their lives are taken. so you need to take swift action on police officers and departments when you see this running rampant. camden police were taught de-escalation techniques. these techniques work to ensure that deadly force is only used in the utmost significant circumstance. so we have had issues here in the city where we have had knife-wielding individuals with mental health issues lunging at police, but police were able to de-escalate the situation so that that person's life was saved. if you don't believe in the humanity of black men and black individuals, i am not even sure what type of police reform can

happen. this is systemic oppression. these are hundreds of years of violence that have been perpetrated on black men. so until we change this country and -- through that, changing police policies will help. but they will not rectify how police officers view black men when they see them. >> that really is the key. there are plenty of cops that are doing de-escalation. it just so happens when they see a white suspect as opposed to a black suspect. dylann roof, as i mentioned, who shot up that church in charleston was given water and walked out fine into jail. we will leave it there. thank you, guys. coming up later on msnbc, the family lawyer of rayshard brooks joins ali velshi with the latest on the investigation. that's at 8:00 a.m. eastern time. black celebrities are peeking out about their encounters with police and they say that surely they don't get the star treatment. and there is video of an

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before you know it. so no one needs to know you've got gas. gas-x case involving a "saturday night live" alum. >> you recall jay ferrell from his five years on "snl." he is the latest black comedian to speak out about their encounters with cops that were all too sobering.

>> he is a comedian best known for his five-year stint on "snl." but jay shares a deeply personal and shocking account of his encounter with l.a. police over mistaken identity. surveillance video of the alleged incident which nbc news has not been able to independently verify, shows a police officer approaching farrow. >> i see an officer to the left of me. i am not thinking anything of it because i am a law-abiding citizen. >> reporter: he says four officers guns drawn ordered him on the ground. >> they put me in cuffs. the officer put his knee on my neck and said you fit the description of a black man in this area where gray sweatpants on and a gray shirt. >> reporter: he says the police eventually razed they had made a mistake. it was the first time he said he had ever been in handcuffs. in a statement to nbc news l.a. police says we are aware of the video post and the matter is

under investigation. fellow kme fell fellow comedian chris rock has been vocal about his police encounters. in 2015 rock journaled several police encounters when less than two months. in a new dave chappelle surprise message he talks about his outrage over police excessive force and the killing of george floyd. >> you are signifying that you can kneel on a man's neck for eight minutes and 46 seconds and feel like you wouldn't get the wrath of god. that's what is happening right now. it's not for a single cop. it's for all of it. >> reporter: farrow echoing chappelle's outrage. >> i could have been george floyd. we, as a country, can't breathe anymore.

>> there are so many minorities that feel that sentiment. so many men that feel that sentiment. that dave chappelle special in its first 48 hours was already viewed by some 11 million people. it's fascinating stuff. >> very powerful. and protesting in this country over george floyd's death is having a profound impact not only here, but overseas. >> europeans are now seeking to remove monuments much like americans are. a live report next. xt my gums are irritated. i don't have to worry about that, do i? harmful bacteria lurk just below the gum line. crest gum detoxify, voted product of the year. it works below the gum line to neutralize harmful plaque bacteria and help reverse early gum damage. gum detoxify, from crest.

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from confederates to slave traders to clolonist outrage, spreading across the country. >> and england, protesters tore down a statue of the 17th century slave trader and rolled it in to the water. it's now been recovered. live from london, what's the latest?

>> reporter: hi there, guys. you mentioned the protection of statues and what we saw here yesterday was far-right protesters descending on london to surround the statue of sir winston churchill defaced in previous protests saying winston churchill was a racist a complex history and a staunch defender of the british empire, but violent clashes here yesterday between the far-right protesters leading to six police officers injured. what they've seen, as you mentioned, those scenes in bristol when protesters toppled the statue of a 17th century slave trade perp since remove and now put into a museum. it spark as domino effect, it's fair to say, across europe with protests at the universe of oxford for removal of the statue of cecil rose and saw removal

the local authorities of a statue to a 19th century slave trade perp cheers going up from the crowds. and in belgium, removal of the pink-splattered statue to king lee p leehold who had a brutal raid. since then the culture secretary said it is the government's opinion controversial statues will not be removed. i've spoke to historians including a professor who said it is not new, the society's re-examining who they celebrate and who they stand for. take a listen. >> the history of removing statues is as long as statues themselves. the idea statues are permanent, don't, they're not moved or not replaced because societies move and change ideas is a strange idea that seems to have been established in the last few years. it's normal when societies

change to re-assess the taj chews that they have. >> reporter: of course, echoing the long-running debate in the united states with regards to monuments to confederate era figures, and here in the uk the mayor of london has said this city must also rook at erecting new statues to minorities so important to this city, to this nation, including those from a generation of people who came from the caribbean and so vital to redevelopment of this nation in the wake of the second world war. guys? >> and curious about winston churchill. obviously, he's well regarded over here as somebody who helped bring about the end of world war ii. what is it that, about him that is getting so much controversy over there at this point? >> reporter: well, many historians i've spoken to of course point to the fact he was somebody who was crucial in

fighting the rise of fascism, crucial in the second world war, but at the same time he is somebody who had a record of racist statements, and at the same time she somebody who has always defended the british empire and you only have to think about the colonial history and the atrocitied committed in the name of the country and make sure people know about the full scope of the con plex history, make sure that children are educated on school programs, the curriculum, to fully understand exactly the role of the british empire here as opposed to just a wanted celebration. >> i don't think any statues will be left if they continue to go through all the histories of those folks. >> thank you. thank you, everybody, for watching us and msnbc live this weekend. i'm kendis gibson.

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it has happened again. the latest on another police killing. new video released overnight detailing the incident as it