good afternoon in the east. good morning out west. i'm chuck todd. president trump just wrapped a not so socially distanced sunny event for an executive order on police reform. it incent vises police departments to. it creates a database to track police misconduct. the president framed it as the result of a tiny percentage of bad actors. rather than believing it has something to do with systemic issues. then he once again called for law and order.

>> americans want law and order. they demand law and order. they may not say it. they may not be talking about it, but that's what i want. some of them don't even know that's what they want, but that's what they want. >> but the executive order is mostly symbolic. it sets goals if you will. the real reform, if it's to come, will have to come from congress. with senate republicans expected to unveil their proposal tomorrow. joining me now is my co-anchor for the next two hours, katy tur. there's two ways to look at the president in this executive order. the fact that he did it, the fact that he did it with families who have experienced police brutality. there's some would say that is a step for him considering where his instincts are on this issue and yet we saw his instincts. he went down the law and order.

he instinctively always wants to be on the side of the police almost no matter what. and you saw that tension, i thought, today in this event. >> so i think this speech, and i've been talking to folks at the white house and in the campaign and allies of the campaign about what this message was going to be today and who it was for. and it was for his re-election campaign. it was for his base. it's the same message that we saw in 2016. law and order. i will be the president of law and order. you saw him repeat that phrase over and over. it's good that we brought up the part where he said even those that don't know it want law and order. >> yeah. >> which is an interesting and telling comment from the president. >> a little big brother. >> when it comes to chokeholds. he said we're going to ban the use of chokeholds, except in a case where an officer's life is at risk. this was an attempt of the president to get ahead of what the senate is going to propose

and what tim scott is going to propose. you don't want to alienate police officers if you're the president. he sees them as his base who will say that you can't take away a method that we need to protect ourselves. so saying we're going to ban it, except in these circumstances, and i would have to talk to a lot of legal experts about this, but it doesn't -- i'm not sure how it substantially changes what is already on the books at a lot of -- >> it wouldn't change a thing. i don't see how it would change a thing to be honest. >> and that is what people use when they use this tactic. they will say my life was in danger. chuck, let's go to somebody who is more well sourced than i am at the white house. nbc news senior digital white house correspondent shannon pettypiece. you were just listening to the conversation chuck and i were having. what happened behind the scenes in the lead-up to this executive order, and what have you been hearing about who the president was trying to talk to today? >> yeah, well, here's a little more i can tell you about

chokeholds. the idea is that the white house can't ban chokeholds. they can't tell local police department what they can do. but they're trying to incent vise police departments to adopt certain standards that would ban chokeholds and encentivize that by withholding federal grant money from those not putting this in place. what the tangible outcome to that is we will certainly -- that will certainly be seen. the white house knows there's only so much they can do that any teeth or real change will come legislatively. things done at the state level. they are eager to sign something on the legislative end, but the sense in the white house right now is that it's pretty unlikely that anything is going to be gained through congress at this point. we have a july deadline here. artificial deadline because there's a stimulus package. the recess. the election. the window is closing on that front. other things the white house is

emphasizing is trying to encourage police departments to work more with social workers. issues of mental health and substant abuse and creating this database that would track police officers who have been accused of using excessive force. overall you made a really good point. this is targeting his re-election in the run up to this and talking to campaign advisers like you've been talking to. there was a message of law and order here and also at the same time, wanting to show the president is acknowledging this issue for a lot of the moderate voters who three weeks in are wondering where is the president's stand on this issue that's resonated with so many people as we've seen these protests across the country. >> shannon, do we know what he said or the -- anything about the conversations he had with the families of the victims? >> no. that's certainly something we're looking into. we're not expected to hear from any of the families today. press was not allowed in that meeting. that was at the family's

request. certainly the white house was aware of not wanting to look like they're using these families as a photo op. but there's been a question for weeks now of, when your going to meet with any of the families. there was a call with george floyd's brother that the president and vice president made no appearances at the funeral, the memorial service for george floyd. this is the first time we've had the president, at least publicly, communicating with families who have been affected by this issue. not just talking to people on the law enforcement end of this. >> shannon pettypiece, thank you very much. notably, chuck, vice president biden recorded a message for the funeral service for george floyd in houston, and we heard the president make a -- try to make a point there today, erroneously, that neither vice president biden or president obama did anything to address this sort of thing while they were in office. >> i thought the most interesting thing about shannon's report there just now that i think is an important

signal as to what's coming and what's not. the white house is basically allowing the senate to decide the terms of when this gets discussed. if they didn't like the fact that this was going to be delayed, they could force that issue. they've chosen not to force that issue. that tells you something. they're just as fine allowing this to sort of lose steam in congress, and they want to play a more passive role on it. that in itself, that was a very important point that shannon made just there. i want to move to atlanta. atlanta mayor keisha lance bottoms did not wait for the president's executive order on policing in atlanta. atlanta is joining the list of cities issuing stricter guidance on how police officers use force. this comes as an investigation is under way into the police killing of rayshard brooks friday night. the district attorney there is suggesting charges could come against the officers involved as soon as tomorrow. our own catie beck is live in atlanta with the latest.

catie, i think the question is, what would they -- what would the charges be, and how many officers would be charged? >> and i think those are questions that everybody in atlanta wants answers to right now, chuck. obviously, as you said, the district attorney here, paul howard, has said it could be as soon as tomorrow when he decides if and what those charges will be and will it just be for the officer that shot brooks? or will it be for the officer that was there as well? those are questions we don't know the answer to yet but we're hoping in the near future to have those answers. one thing that mayor keisha lance bottoms has done very clearly is make sure that people know that she's taking these police reforms seriously and said an hour or minute cannot be wasted before these go into action. she is saying from here forward, officers will have to work a de-escalation tactics before employing any deadly force. additionally, they will have a duty to intercede if they see an

officer that is using unreasonable force, and they'll be required to use only the force that is reasonable to protect themselves in these scenarios. additionally, she wants to heighten the standard for reporting excessive force complaints and also involve more of the citizen board, the citizen review of these incidents. so she has taken a very swift and aggressive position on this to make sure people know these actions are not somewhere down the road in the distant future or in a concept. they are happening now, and they are real and no more time can be wasted before they are implemented. at this point, atlanta is watching and waiting to see what those decisions will be. chuck? >> catie beck on the ground for us at the site of that killing from last weekend. thank you. katy, over to you. >> and next hour, the senate judiciary committee will hold a hearing on police use of force and facing national pressure to act, john thune of south dakota said that mitch mcconnell will move as quickly as possible on

the police reform bill that republicans plan to release this week. joining us is nbc news capitol hill correspondent garrett haake. what's the urgency on this? we just had shannon pettypiece reporting the white house is happy to let congress take the lead on this knowing that it might end up petering out. >> yeah, look, that's entirely possible. we see this with big issues all the time. the closest parallel that i can think of is any time after there's a mass shooting in this country and everyone races to congress to talk about how there's going to be a bill on gun control issues and then the issues slowly loses focus and things don't change. in this case you've seen an aggressive push by democrats who control the house and have big voices in the senate to use this opportunity when public continue is so focused on the issue of police reforms and try to push something forward. you also see republicans in many cases working in good faith to get this done. tim scott who has been working

hard to get a bill that a majority of republicans can support. you've got folks like mike braun, republican senator of indiana who says he's willing to go farther than other republican colleagues and try to get rid of what's called qualified immunity, which is a major sticking point in these negotiations. what you are seeing develop now say little bit of concern among democrats that this white house or the republican party will go with a fig leaf approach to say they have addressed this problem without actually addressing it. that's something cory booker spoke to on the floor earlier this morning. take a listen to the senator from new jersey. >> this is not a choice between one side of an aisle or another. it's a choice between meaningful reforms in this moment or making symbolic gestures that will do nothing to save people's lives. it's a choice between action and inaction. >> and katy, that window for action is short. you mentioned senator thune's

comments about trying to get this done before the fourth of july recess. after that, congress goes home for a few weeks. when they come back, they were expected to deal with their next coronavirus relief package. this is a question of trying to get something done, essentially right now, before the coronavirus bill and then congress tends to not be at its most productive in the fall of election years. let's put it that way. so the opportunity to get this done is really quite short. >> garrett haake with some perspective for us. thank you very much. chuck, back to you. now turning to some positive developments in the fight against the coronavirus. a promising new drug treatment may help seriously ill patients diagnosed with covid-19. it's a low-dose steroid treatment that prevented 1 in every 8 from dying. it's considered preliminary and have not been peer reviewed. joining us, dr. joseph fair, an msnbc science contributor, recently recovered himself from

the coronavirus. all right. so this is a steroid. and i had seen reports of other steroids in an attempt to maybe revitalize the lungs when they've been attacked and things like that. as a potential treatment. explain why this seems to be working. >> well, you know, theoretically, the way this works, significant contributor to the mortality that results from covid-19 is your own immune system. so your own immune system is overreacting to a pathogen that it's never encountered before. and it causes your immune system throwing everything it can on it. the way a steroid would affect that is to dampen that immune response, limiting the harm that your own body does to itself while in the hospital. which, when people are ventilated, that's a lot of what's going on and what they are feeling and why they feel so bad and are sick at that point in time. not necessarily because of the virus but because of what your own immune system is doing to

it. this daechmpens that response a allows you to overcome it yourself without overreacting, i should say. >> now what this treatment is and isn't. this is not for those that have lost their sense of taste or smell, right? this is -- >> correct. >> this is only a treatment when you are in the icu on oxygen? >> that's correct. this is -- as far as what i gain from this study, this would be for the most critically ill patients, and this did have -- if the study holds up. that was a press release, not a paper. we haven't seen the data yet. if it holds up and does come from oxford which lends it some credibility already, but if it holds up, what we should see is an increase in the number of people that survive the disease. it's definitely not going to be for people that are having mild to moderate symptoms and home self-treating. this will be for your most critically ill patients. >> so joseph fair, the capital city, beijing, is now under logdown because of another

outbreak there. there were reports this outbreak may be more contagious than the original outbreak in wuhan, china. what can you tell us about that in your knowledge as a virologist? >> well, you know, i can't necessarily point out to the science that says it's more contagious. beijing has a lot more people than any other city in china. wuhan has a striking number of people itself but beijing has just under 22 million people. there is no option whatsoever to socially distance having spent a considerable amount of time in beijing myself. so that, combined with the fact that even in our own experience here in the united states, we see a very significant portion of individuals that are infected that are either asymptomatic or still spreading the virus while presymptomatic. it's very reasonable to think that could have occurred between when they declared the outbreak more or less over in wuhan and now cases arriving in beijing. but it's still a worrisome development, it being their

capital and how densely populated it is and connected to the rest of the world, frankly. >> what do you think that means for what we're going to end up seeing here? there are i number of states that reopened early that are seeing a spike in their cases. there are other states that have had their case numbers fall dramatically. new york is one of them that are starting the process of reopening. and it seems like a lot of local officials, certainly a lot of national officials are very hess te itant to look down any city, how much worse it might make the economy. >> yeah, i don't think realistically we'll see another lockdown in the united states. i don't think the american public would accept it at this point. and we can -- i think we'll do a retrospective of why all that is and why it happened that way once this saul ovis all over, b don't think people would stand for it again. what it does mean, when we've talked about the second wave in the past, that is -- we were talking more about a natural second wave that we'd see a dip possibly in the summer and

months in the cold and flu season that we naturally see. what beijing tells us is they're not seeing that dip. they are having new outbreaks. we're seeing that ourselves here. we're having that same experience. and that we're undergoing a self-induced second wave here in the united states because we just decided to relax our efforts which we're working successfully in a number of states. so this is really a human behavior induced second wave that we're seeing. >> joseph fair, i think you used the word before, endemic at this point. second wave, endemic. does it really matter? are we talking -- >> i don't think it matters at this point to be frank. with the kind of lack of response that we're seeing, you know, even speaking about it in the past tense at certain points in the press conference today, it's like we've already moved on and we're still midpandemic. that being said, i think we're going to continue down this same path. i think we are going to either

become -- develop an endemic situation with the virus itself or we'll have a vaccine. those are going to be our only two ways out. a vaccine is not guaranteed, as i told you this weekend. and it's not something that's necessarily going to happen fast. so there are going to be very long-term ramifications to our actions now. >> this is why the news on the therapeutics may matter more in the short term than anything else because we don't know how long that vaccine takes. joseph fair, as always, sir, thanks for your expertise. much appreciated. katy, over to you. >> and coming up next -- we head to alabama's black belt. one of the poorest places in america and among the hardest hit by the coronavirus. how volunteers there are stepping up to help with the shortage of medical supplies and lack of testing sites. you're watching msnbc.

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minnesota congresswoman ilhan omar announced her father has died from complications of covid-19. noor omar muhammad fled when she was 8 years old spending years in a refugee camp in kenya before seek asylum in the united states in 1995. they eventually settled in minneapolis where omar would become one of the first two muslim women elected to congress in 2018. her father was by her side when it happened. or when she was sworn in,

holding a koran that belonged to thomas jefferson. in a statement monday evening, the congresswoman wrote, no words can describe what he meant to me and all who knew and loved him. sad news out of there, chuck. back to you. >> it sure is. all of these -- all of these, especially people that haven't been able to be there with their older parent. that's been what's so difficult. only adds to the difficulty we're all facing. covid-19 has disproportionately impacted black americans in counties and cities with a higher number of black residents have faced outsized losses. black americans make up 13% of the total population but blaccot for nearly 23% of the total deaths in this country. joining me from selma, alabama, is our nbc news correspondent ellison barber. what do you have? >> we spent the last two days in the black belt region. it is a rural, predominantly

african-american part of alabama. it originally got its name because of its rich topsoil, but they have long had issues with high unemployment, high rates of poverty as well as difficulty accessing basic things like health care, grocery stores for food and even internet which has become increasingly important as more people stay at home, as more children are having to learn remotely. people that we've spoken to in this area, they tell us not only have they had these issues before but that covid-19 has capac operaexasperated them. a lot of racist policies and systemic racist issues. we were nearby and spoke to a pastor there who feels like he's been having to bury someone almost every week because of covid-19. that is a rural community, over 75% of the people who live in that county are african-american. again, not a big county. 10,000 residents, roughly.

in all, over 4% of their population are currently positive for covid-19. they have one of the highest per capita positive rates of covid-19 when you look at a bigger county like jefferson county you see less than 1%. that's where birmingham is. this area has been heavily impacted by covid-19. that pastor told us, he believes a lot of these issues are related to racial issues that have been longstanding. he talked a little bit about that and the burden that he has dealt with and other members of his community as this disease has just ravaged the area. listen here. >> knowing that you're sick and cannot afford to go to the doctor. we're still stuck with institutional and systemic racism. there's still oppression. but it's time now for all of us to realize the importance that we're all god's children. that he created humankind.

all of us. and all of us should be able to have the proper access to medical care. >> a lot of people know the black belt region of alabama. selma specifically, because of the incredibly important civil rights moments that have happened here. many of them on this bridge. the edmond pettus bridge. many want to rename that bridge, changing the name from that senator who was also a member of the kkk to name it after the civil rights hero congressman john lewis. we've spoken to people in this area. most of them say they support it. a lot of people feel it's long overdue. in the past, the argument has been because that bridge had so many important things take place on it, that what happened there kind of triumphs the name of the bridge. but now even congresswoman terry sewell has said she's in favor of changing the bridge name to name it after john lewis.

it's the time, even though it's not what people are asking for, it's a small, easy thing that should be done right now. >> i thought you had a nice line when the congresswoman said if i'm asking other people to change their views on this, she was a defender of keeping the name, she said, i owe it to folks to think about changing my mind on this as well. ellison barber in selma, alabama, thank you. katy, over to you. >> we want to show you an alarming scene out of new mexico last night when members of a militia group clashed with protesters trying to pull down a statue in albuquerque. that's when a protester ended up getting shot. this happened while just feet away demonstrators were attempting to tear down a statue of a spanish conquistador. four shots were fired. the man injured in the shooting is in critical but stable condition. a few minutes earlier, reporter megan abundis of nbc affiliate

kob4 captured this scuffle between protesters and members of an armed self-described milit militia. they attempted to stop the protesters from attaching a chain to the statue. notice the man in the blue shirt up top and the brown scarf. they later obtained this video of the shooting itself. while it's unclear to nbc news what happened immediately beforehand, this footage shows the suspected gunman being struck with a skateboard and then being pursued by protesters for about 30 seconds before the shots are fired. after the shooting and before police were able to get there, the armed members of the new mexico civil guard formed a ring around the suspect. it is unclear whether he himself has any links to the civilian militia, but when police did arrive, the members of the militia were being seen arrested

alongside the suspect. steven ray bacha has been charged with battery and the use of a firearm. new mexico is an open carry state. this is what makes a lot of these intense moments so hard for police is when you have an open carry state, it's hard to keep tensions down. and just frankly, it's hard to police the situation when a lot of people in the crowd are carrying guns. we saw this a lot in 2016 when there were clashes outside of trump rallies and in places like new mexico and other states with open carry laws, it did feel like it was, to excuse the cliche, it could be a tinderbox. >> it does seem as if there's quite a few people taking advantage of the open carry in order to create an intimidation factor. and that's something the governor of new mexico noted and the question is, you know, how do you deal with that in an open

carry state? coming up -- in a move towards more community policing, the nypd is eliminating the plainclothes anti-crime units. new york state attorney general leticia james joins us after the break.

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tomorrow, new york's attorney general will hold a

public hearing about interactions between police and the public during recent protests. it comes as the new york city police department is disbanding its division of 600 plainclothes police officers. what the department is calling the last vestiges of the controversial stop and frisk program. police commissioner dermott shea indicated it would be a watershed moment for the nypd. >> make no mistake, this is a seismic shift in the culture of how the nypd polices this great city. it will be felt immediately throughout the five district attorneys offices. it will be felt immediately in the communities that we protect. >> joining us now is new york attorney general letisha james. thanks for being here. i remember my first memories of you were standing outside various scenes of unrest here in new york city, protests having

to do with stop and frisk when you were a lawmaker here in brooklyn. what does it mean to have the nypd pull back on the last vestige of this program? how big of a deal is it? >> so, first, thank you for having me. so as a former city council member who was involved in the stop and frisk abuses, and someone who called for reform as it relates to stop and frisk practices, one of the recommendations back then was to disband the anti-crime unit. we were concerned, and i was concerned about the unconstitutional stops that were being conducted, not only in brooklyn but across the city of new york. i congratulate commissioner shea but i look forward to being briefed on this decision and look forward, obviously, to his cooperation going forward. it's important that we understand that we have to change the culture of the police department, not only in new york but all across this country. this is an historic moment, and that's why hundreds and thousands of young people are marching every night.

i as the attorney general have the right to defend their right to peacefully protest and i will guard it. we're holding a hearing tomorrow because i need to get to the bottom of these interactions with the police department and those protesters. >> expand on that, please, because we've seen giant protests across this city now for weeks. most of them are peaceful but we have seen moments that have raised some serious alarms. a woman that was pushed down, the man whose mask was taken down and then sprayed in the face. other instances. what are you looking at right now and how do you think the nypd has been doing as a whole in terms of allowing these protests to continue and allowing people to speak their mind? >> so let me just say i'm not going to prejudge the investigation. we're here to gather the facts and to make some findings and recommendations to the governor of the state of new york. and my focus is on those interactions between police and

protesters. and so individuals will come before us tomorrow or around 150 have submitted testimony and others want to testify tomorrow virtually. we'll hear from them, make some recommendations and some findings, and then we'll hold another hearing and hear from some experts on recommendations to provide some accountability and some transparency to the police department. not only in new york city but all across the state of new york. and it's important that, again, we've got to change the culture. we've got to recognize that individuals have been marching for around 14 days, but it's important this be a teaching moment. the civil rights movement, particularly the bus boycott lasted almost a year. and individuals are peacefully protesting, and that right is protected under the stug constitution, and i will defend that right. >> madam attorney general, we heard the president earlier today, he expressed a belief that this is a -- that it's a tiny fraction of police officers

that are the bad apples. that overall, there is not a systemic problem. you've been looking at this a long time. do you believe this is a recruiting issue, a training issue, or, if the president is right, is this a close the ranks issue and this protection of the bad apples. maybe the president is right but there's too much protecting of these bad apples in the system. what have you come to the conclusion on of what this issue, what the root of this issue is. training, recruiting or protection racket here? >> i've not formed any conclusions. tomorrow we will have a hearing. i think the most important thing the president on down is that we've got to listen. we need to listen to the protesters. listen to all the advocates. we need to listen to the professionals, and we need to listen to the police department. tomorrow we'll hold a

fact-finding hearing. i'll not prejudge the investigation. my responsibility and my task is to find out what happened. what occurred, and whether or not we should move forward with some systematic changes that the governor of the state of new york, as well as the legislature and various city councils can adopt. >> as somebody who has been on the front lines of this in your past life, madam attorney general, how do you feel about the reforms that have been put in place so far? the overturning of 50a, this announcement by dermot shea. do you think that's enough or are you looking for more reforms? >> i want to thank the state legislature. they have created an inspector general which will be housed in my office. in addition to that, they've codified my ability to investigate police and civilian interactions, particularly of individuals who are unarmed. i thank them for that, for putting that permanently into the law. and all of the other measures that they have passed, i applauded. but obviously, there are some

additional recommendations, and i look forward again to gathering the facts and the evidence and guiding this process forward. it's important that we listen. we listen to the protesters. we listen to the thousands of individuals who march on our street peacefully each and every night. and we get to the bottom of it. it's important that individuals understand that community is critical to law enforcement in the state of new york and across this nation. law enforcement relies upon the community. and if there is a fissure or a break and if there is no confidence in authority or confidence in policing, that is something that my office is here to address by providing some sense of accountability and transparency to the police department here in the city and across the state of new york. >> new york attorney general letitia james, thank you for joining us today. we appreciate your time. chuck, over to you. >> thank you. >> thank you. up next -- it is looking less likely we'll have major league baseball, or at least some form of a season to look forward to this summer with

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now there's skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months after just 2 doses. skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, such as fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or coughs. or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. ♪ nothing is everything. ask your dermatologist about skyrizi. members of an iowa high school baseball team are being recognized for showing their support for the black lives matter movement during the first game of the season, the entire des moines roosevelt high school baseball team took a knee during the national anthem. our des moines, iowa, affiliate spoke to some of the players.

>> just trying to show our appreciation and just like about social justice. >> no disrespect to the flag. just simply to bring attention to the issues at hand. and i think we did the right thing. >> so, chuck, there is some baseball being played in iowa, but it sounds like it's not going to be played at the mlb. what do you got? >> yeah, well, i think america's pastime is a moniker that's about to be stripped from major league baseball. when it comes to baseball, it's increasingly -- >> maybe it will just be a pastime? >> yeah, past, emphasis. it's frustrating. the league and players union have been locked in this heated labor dispute for months now. the mlb commissioner spoke to espn on monday and addressed the stalemate from his point of view. >> i am not confident. mike, i think there's real risk and as long as there's no

dialogue, that real risk is going to continue. it's just a disaster for our game. absolutely no question about it. it shouldn't be happening. and it's important that we find a way to get past it and get the game back on the field for the benefit of our fans. >> it's a different tune from last week when manfred said baseball would unequivocally return. and "usa today" reports several major league players and coaches have tested positive for covid-19. joining us now is mike tirico. mike, i've been sort of dr. doom in all of this sports in that my fear is, if we get a july spike, which sadly you're starting to see, that the stories of major league baseball players and coaches testing positive, university of alabama had multiple people, the university of houston had to shut down their facilities and kick football and basketball players out. i don't know if all the happy talk about playing is realistic. do you? >> yeah, chuck, it's going to be

really hard to get past this initial issue that, as more people are being tested, and tested thoroughly, the reality is that people are testing positive. some, it's not a wide number. it's not a huge number, but where is this in that new norm? we don't know the answer to that question just yet. and you are going to see with basketball, the nba hoping to restart all in one place in orlando next month, there are some players who have been very vocal about their concerns that we're going to be in a bubble. we're going to be away from our family for a couple, maybe three months for the team that plays for the finals, and we're still concerned about our health. while the plans are in place, it doesn't mean the plans will come to fruition. >> i want to talk specifically on baseball a second here. the nba -- the owners and the players look like they are at least communicating. that's not happening with baseball here. and i'll tell you what has surprised me, mike, is that the owners themselves, i mean, manfred is representing the owners. the owners themselves have not been leaders at all.

they have hidden behind this virus and hidden behind all of it in a way that's been disappointing. how do you call baseball america's pastime if they don't figure this out? >> it's a good point, chuck. they've been the most silent ownership group of any of the four major north american professional sports. think about how active the nfl has been in terms of leadership with roger goodell. he's been saying strong things in black lives matter and dealing with covid-19. same with the national hockey league. the parallels were interesting watching that espn special last night. gary bettman spoke at length about the players being directly involved in a lot of the conversations and how to restart. then manfred a half hour before said we're so far apart, we're just trading our communication electronically. not even in conversation. so there's a huge gulf. and baseball had an opportunity to be the first sport to take steps to get back on the field fourth of july weekend. they let that go. now if they do come back with a

50-game schedule and figure that out, i think it will be overshadowed by the hockey and basketball players or start of football if it all happens. >> 100%. 100%. and this was, of all the four major sports, throw it -- soccer and baseball were the two that you feel like could have tried this quickest and soonest. soccer has taken advantage of it all over the world. baseball, looks like a relic of the 20th century. as a baseball fan, i'm really frustrated. mike tirico, always appreciate your perspective, sir. >> katy, over to you. >> chuck, this was not the news we needed today, but let's move on. coming up, president trump threatened to intervene in seattle if the mayor and governor do not break up what's being dubbed the capital hill organized protest. we're going to take you live to that area of seattle right after the break. when you shop with wayfair, you spend less

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announced today that officers would go into an area of the city that's become occupied by protesters in recent days if there are any threats to public safety. police pulled out of the capitol hill neighborhood last week after clashes with demonstrators. the announcement comes after president trump warned officials in seattle on monday that if they did not clear the area of protesters soon, he may have to intervene. >> if they don't do the job, i'll do the job. i've already spoken to the attorney general about it. if they adopt do the job, we will do the job. >> what can you do? >> about ten different things, any one of which will solve the problem quickly. >> joining us from seattle is msnbc correspondent jo ling kent, is anyone unhappy about what's happening out there? >> it seems like there's a new chapter in cooperation between the city government and the

protesters. right now they're bringing in the brand-new concrete barricades. they are covering them in plywood. the idea is to create a safety barrier to prevent incidents like driving in and having people try to rush the crowds, to create a new level of safety. the plywood, you might ask why? it's a local construction person here with the seattle department of transportation tells us it's about allowing them to have murals, and have protester to have their free expression here. so the goals, though, haven't changed at all. ed idea that the protesters wants seattle to -- i know it's a little loud there, but defund the police. the idea of putting in the barricades is the city is now working with the protesters. they still -- on the note of the president targeting seattle specifically, i interviewed mayor jenny durkin yesterday, and asked her what her response

is to president trump. this this is what she told me. >> so i'm not going to be distracted by the president or anyone else focusing just on four blocks. we'll do with community, we'll have a resolution, but what i'm going to focus on is listening to the message of black lives matter, and black americans and how we dismantle the systems that have been so unjust. >> we've also spoken to black lives matter organizer, who says he acknowledges the fact that when it comes to achieving a goal, that has changed, boo you there's so many different people in and out involved in what's called the capitol hill occupy protest. ghost forward, yes, we will see law enforcement in this area according to the police chief. they will be responding to emergencies where necessary, but

the east precinct just up here to my right, that's continuing to be vacant, and no one is there. so there isn't really any solution so star as to reestablish a formal police presence in this area, as, by the way, katy, they're still marching every night to the west precinct. >> i don't know who your audio tech is today, but give him or her a pat in the back for deftly handing you the stick mic. >> that's corey. thank you. jo ling kent, thank you. coming up we'll by joined by a tulsa, oklahoma, official about the rally this weekend amid the pandemic. you're watching msnbc. for better things than rheumatoid arthritis. when considering another treatment, ask about xeljanz a pill for adults with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis when methotrexate has not helped enough.

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good afternoon out east. i'm chuck todd. still a good morning out west. 11:00 a.m. out west, and we're about a half hour from the senate judiciary hearing will hold a hearing on police force. president trump signed an executive order with a big loophole. officers can use the tactic if they feel their life is at risk. in a speech prior to signing the

e.o., the president seemed to straddle a line between reform and touting and supporting law and order and the police. >> americans believe we mousse support the brave men and women in blue who police our streets and keep us safe. americans also believe we must improve accountability, increase transparency and investor resources in police training. nobody is more opposed to the small number of bad police officers -- and you have them. they are very tiny. i use the word tiny. it's a very small percentage. meanwhile, the trump campaign is resisting calls to move their rally this saturday in oklahoma. a senior campaign officials tells nbc that the event will still be held indoors, despite corns about an indoor venu during this pandemic.

in an interview earlier, the vice president defended the decision to push forward. >> the president wants to be out, he wants to be connecting to our supporters. the freedom of speech, the right to peaceably assemble is enshrined in the first amendment of the constitution. the president and i are very confident that we're going to be able to restart they rallies. >> just yesterday oklahoma's republican governor kevin stitt raised concerns about the risk and suggested the rally be moved to an outside venue. joining me is katy tur. we do have some reports -- and you don't know whether this is spin that they're looking for an outdoor venue for overflow is what they're saying for now, but this could be the first steps that the campaign is quietly going about trying to see if they -- if they both can say,

hey, response was so overwhelming the bank of oklahoma center just was not big enough, so we chose outdoor event x, which would be a trumpian way on how to spin this. >> they were having a meeting about this around 11:00, but this has -- that sort of thing has happened before, where they have had to move the rally at the last minute. notably it happened in mobile, alabama in 2015. therp initi they were initially inside, but they got enough rsvps to move it to an outdoor field, and that's one of the biggest rally in the 2015 cycle, that year at least, so it could be a move they do. it certainly would be a lot safer to have everybody outside. i know the campaign is handing out mask and sanitizer. unclear if they'll be required. unclear if the president would wear a mask. i don't think he would, but chuck, it's also a concern for the president's own health and

well-being. those who come into contact with him usually are tested, and a lot of them when they leave the white house, so it's a departure potentially for him. there's a lot on twitter about where are all the these concerns about the protests? well, the concerns are exactly the same. and everybody is say, even outdoors, please wear a mask. so what you're seeing on twitter is not the facts that you're getting through the tv screens. in minutes the judiciary committee will convene a hearing following floor speeches this morning in the senate from democrats, urging their colleagues to quickly pass comprehensive legislation. this as republican whip john thune says they're moving as quickly as possible. joining us is garrett haake. garrett, already, it does seems

as if tim scott was alone in arguing, can we tackle this in june, don't way for july? i guess john thune's statement today is a slight change in the leadership position, or am i trying too hard to read something into this? >> reporter: i think it might be a significant change. you have the senate only in until essential july 3rd. then they go out for two weeks. when they come back, they're expected to be dealing with the next coronavirus relief package. after that, as you know well, once you get into the fall of the election year, not a lot of legislating is going on on capitol hill. the window to deal with any kind of police reform legislation is incredibly narrow. so this decision by thune to say, you know, they will likely move on this more quickly, and we expect to hear from mitch mcconnell, by the way, within the next ten minutes who could shed even more light on the way senate reps are choosing to move forward, does suggest that they

recognize the way the entire country is focused on this issue and the need to put some meaningful reform out there. democrats have introduced their own legislative package. you mentioned the democratic senators speaking on the floor this morning. here you have democrats very clear about what they stand for, and republicans by and large as a group in the senate only essential been telling reporters what they don't like about the democratic bill or small pieces about what will be in theirs. this effort led by tim scott still has not produced paper in terms of what a republican senate bill actually will be. >> you and i are both skeptical, if this thing gets into the july, you have the economic relief packages. it's hard to imagine they can tackle both in july. something has to happen in june if they want to deal with both another member of congress tested positive for the virus, congressman tom rice.

what's been the reaction by other members of congress? what have you heard? >> reporter: we've heard this discussion about trying to perhaps mandate mask wearing on the floor and in hearing. speaker pelosi spoke to that. by and large this is a small group of people who are not wearing masks religiously. we are all indoors. we are all in probably closer proximity than we would like up here. the only time i take my mask off is when i'm doing they live shots with a safe distance between my cameraman and myself, or when i'm eating lunch. there is a small group of republicans who i think have taken a position that they are just not going to do this, and they're not going to do it on the floor and not going to do it unless somebody makes them. the question is will somebody fight that fight and force this issue on capitol hill. but remember the house in particular is only sort of in right now. they're doing committee hearings, but not in any real serious legislation. so i would expect any rule like

that would probably be a bit of a ways off still. >> could be. i think society is speaking on this one in many cases where society is more and more leaning toward maskses garrett. thank you. katy over to you. >> chuck, president trump has repeatedly tried to downplay rising cases of the coronavirus in the united states earlier he promised a vaccine will come very, very soon and also said the virus will go away on its own. >> i always say, even without it, it goes away, but if we have the vaccine, and we will. if we have therapeutic or cure, one thing blends into the other, it will be a fantastic day. i think that's going to happen. >> during a roundtable on elder abuse awareness yesterday, the president claimed that the high numbers of new cases reported nationwide were solely the result of increased testing.

>> our testing is so far advanced, so much bigger and better than any other country we'll have more cases. we'll always have more cases. as you said this morning, that's probably the down side of having good testing. you find a lot of cases in other countryings who don't even test. if you don't test, you don't have any cases. if we stopped testing right now, we would have very few cases, if any. >> joining us now is correspond shannon pettypiece. it goes without saying the virus is here whether or not you test for it. the test just alerts you to its presence in certain people and who exactly they are. it doesn't mean the virus just goes away. i am curious, that sort of mindset, any reporting to suggest that that may be the reason why this administration was so slow to get on top of the testing issue in this country n in?

>> reporter: there was a big issue just on the technical side, just the cdc being able to developed the type of rapid testing that was needed, and of course all the coordination that had to take place. on the technical end there were certainly a lot of issues getting these tests out to the market. but now, as you pointed out, it does seemed to be consistent message coming from the administration that the reason were seeing an increase in cases in many places is because of an increase in testing, and that is something that the vice president has said repeatedly. he said on a call with governors, on tv interviews, yet same we see public health officials say while 'tissing is going up, the rate of new cases is going up even faster. there's a higher percentage of positive tests now than back in april. so health officials in these states on the ground is saying testing is a fact op, but there's also just a spread within the community going on, and really contradicting the

white house, and the assertion here that they're trying to make the only reason we're seeing is because of testing. they don't want to see the u.s. pull back again and re-close the economy. >> shannon, thank you very much. chuck, back to you. well, we were talking a bit about tulsa earlier. with the rally just a few days away, the republican governor of oklahoma suggesting it bed moved to an outdoor venue, this after the top health official expressed concerns about confined spaces. they have seen an uptick in covid cases. trump supportsers have already been lining up, a venue that seats up to 19,000, and according to the campaign manager brad parscale says their temperatures will be checked. face masks and social distancing

will not be required, though we understand they will be handing out face masks as well. joining us is karen keith from direct 2. i believe, commissioner keith, this is in your district. so at the end of the day, explain what it is -- i think -- i thought the best explanation about the concern of an indoor event is not the event itself. it's cleaning up after this event. how do you at all sterilize this place, and do you have the workers to do it? >> well, chuck, it's all of the above. tulsa is a very welcoming place. just like our health economy commissioner said, we would welcome the president and vice president at any other time. i was with the vp a year ago. he was touring some of the flooded areas we had, but now is not the time. like you said, the cleanup

afterwards an issue, but our staff at the bok center, i have concerns about their health. people coming in from four to five states around our area into tulsa, and likely a lot of these folks -- i don't know yet, i haven't walked down to talk to anybody -- but more than likely we'll have a lot of folks coming in from areas. we don't know where they're from. we don't know if they're from a hot spot, and we've had a spike in recent days. it's just not the right time. >> are you at all optimistic that at least this chatter that they're at least looking at outdoor venues? help the viewers out. is there an obvious outdoor venue in your mind? >> well, football is big here. we love it. so there are some arenas around here that would accommodate about 3,000 less than the bok center, but we're thinking it will be around 100,000 people in this two to three-block area.

our facilities simply don't accommodate that many people. that's the bottom line. they just really don't. this building has been shut down for three months. they furloughed most of their staff, so they'll have to bring people back in. a lot of the folks who volunteer -- they don't volunteer, but they work part time and come in for these large events, you know, they're in the 70 to 80-year-old age range, so how many of them will want to come in and work there event. they're trying to stand this up in a very short amount of time. >> let's not even get into the issue of contact tracing if you were even to attempt that after this event, but let me ask you about greenwood. the governor's suggestion that the president tour greenwood while he is in tulsa, what is your take on that? >> well, i mean, normally it would be a great idea, but there are some junteenth events, and

you and i both know, katy, if they bring in the president and vice president, they will have to clear the area out. that's what they do, just to make sure he's safe. we obviously want to make sure he's safe while he's here. i do not think it's a good idea. i did want to throw out i'm happy to take them on a tour of our levee system, because our levees are a federal project. last week we had black hawk helicopters laying down tons of sand on our levees just to keep them from going under at our high water event. so we're in the process of getting federal funds. that's definitely a project i would like to show them tomorrow, and really need the federal help. we just finished our feasibility study with the corps and got the chief's report signed in d.c. i'm happy to so them that, but i don't think going into a

greenwood is a good idea. >> you're also giving a reminder that infrastructure week became a punch line, it is a reality. there's a ton of infrastructure in this country that needs updating, improving. highlighting one project out of many that are necessary there. commissioner keith, thank you for sharing your views. >> thanks, guys. appreciate it. >> katy, over to you. an infrastructure means jobs, chuck. coming up policing the police. a 20-year veteran of the nypd joins us how it can be done and why the president's executive order does not go far enough. and the atlanta bishop fighting for the establishment of statewide hate crime laws after the murder of ahmaud arbery. you're watching msnbc. uh uh, no way come on, no no n-n-n-no-no

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in friday's deadly shooting of rayshard brooks as that investigation continues. joining us is katie beck. what more have we learned about these officers? >> well, check, we are definitely delving into the personnel filed of garrett rolfe. we have found that at least a dozen citizen complaints and other incidents are in his personnel file. at least nine he was exonerated for, and one he was reprimanded for, improper use of a weapon. what the complaints amounted to and how they were decided is not well detailed in the personnel file, but we do know this is all probably being reviewed by district attorney paul howard as he's trying to decide to brings charges and what charges to bring. rolfe was fired almost immediately after the incident, but his fate is in the hands of a district attorney, whether he'll face charges.

we're told that decision could be made as soon as tomorrow, so a lot of atlanta is watching and waiting, waiting to see what affectly will be handed done. the protests were largely peaceful. atlanta police department saying there were no arrests. today more demonstrations, all peaceful. i think folks are trying to give the benefit of the doubt to the law enforcement and mayor, who says she's taking swift actions, but right now there's a lot of curiosity, a lot of anxiety surrounding what is next year? >> yeah, these will be tough charge. if they want to make charges, they want them to stick, and this is probably more complicated than many i think folks would like to think. catie beck, thank you. katy, over to you. >> leadership is making changes

and holding officers accountable when excessive force is used, at least they're trying to. joining us is cheryl dorsey, a 20-years veteran of the lapd, also author of the book black and blue. cheryl, thank you very much for being here. why don't you think the president's executive order goes far enough? >> i don't even know that it goes. he's being disingenuous when he pretents that somehow this executive order will stop patrol officers -- which i was, as well as a patrol supervisor for 20 years -- from doing the things they do. right now police officers all across the nation are sucking their -- you have an officer who had 18 personnel complaints, so they's already on the list. rolfe had at least a dozen, so putting him on a list, thank you very much, that's helpful, but

doesn't do much to deters behavior. and now you see officers quitting. why? probably because there's another department who has an appetite for their kind of foolishness, maybe like the one in mississippi, where the police chief said he didn't see anything wrong or the major in tulsa who said more black officers probably should be shot. they need to be stripped of their police officer standard and training certification. >> the president calls it a few bad actors or bad apples. he does not -- what do you think? >> 18 personnel complains for chauvin, 12 for rolfe. michael shachleger had been

involved in several incident. unless they do something with they officers, families waiting in the wings waiting for some kind of action for officer who took lives, this will continue. >> cheryl dorsey, how much of this is a union protection problem, meaning at the end of the day, the officers know they've got -- it's sort of -- that they're -- there is this club that basically will always protect them, give them legal protection if necessary. is that what makes these changes so difficult? makes it heart to even fire somebody with as many demerits as we've been highlighting here? >> the union certainly plays a part. it's a lobbying arm, but it's really the culture. every police chief was once a police officers, so when they clutch their pearls and act

surprised, they're being intellectually dishonest. we see the same officers over and over engaged in police misconduct bag police department chiefs seem to have a responsibility to civil liability that they know is coming. so when they protect that entity, they sometimes shelter and coddle police officers, so they just continue to live to offend against until it makes national news, now they can't cover them anymore. >> cheryl dorsey, thank you so much for joining us today. we appreciate it. i'm going to send it back to you, chuck. >> thank you, always good to hear from former police officers who can help tell us what's going on. up next, an update from florida and texas, two states both sees up ticks in new covid infections. plus why did north korea blow up its own de facto embass with south korea? you're clearly someone who takes care of yourself.

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coronavirus hospitalizations in texas have hit a new high. up significantly. just moments ago the governor the texas governor abbott gave an update on covid-19 in the state of texas. >> we at the state level, as well as our peers across the entire state, at the county and local level, we remain laser focused on maintaining abundant

hospital capacity. >> the governor also went on to say the spikes may be an aberration, but for the focus is making hospital beds available to those who need it, and that's one thing about both the dallas and houston area, is they do have a fairly large hospital capacity, katy. >> yeah, but we'll keep talking about records. florida just reported a record sing single-day increase in just the last 24 hours. the new record comes less than two weeks after face two of that state's reopening. joining us from miami is nbc news correspondent sam brock. sam, you have down there on and off for quite some time now.

this is what many health officials feared, this would lead to another round of spikes. this record is confirming that fear. what are you seeing? do they have the hospital capacity to handle it? >> yeah, i think it's hard to say, katy, good afternoon, that you didn't see this coming especially with memorial day, the reopposition, and not many wearing masks or wearing them properly, and here we are. this is the fourth time in a week where they set a high. 13,500 makes up 17% of all of florida's cases just in the last week. i talked about hospital capacity. things are stable at the moment, but started to hit a bit of an upswing. i'm here at jackson health, and they keep a daily reporting tab

of how many covid-19 patients they have, four, five days was 101. today it's 137. the mayor francis suarez got covid-19 himself here. he's particularly attuned, does not want to see the hospital system strained. he pushed pause on the next phase of reopening, which would be phase three there's no rollbacks at this point, but people will say it's notal -- -- >> we always have to look at behavior in the context of what we're doing to reopen. as the population, we need to understand it's a virus spread by airborne methods.

what we're seeing just on a personal level is either people not wearing masks, or just not wearing them correctly. >> reporter: there are reports that the palm beach county government that is considering requiring face coverings for all of its residents. a group of physicians in tallahassee at the state's capitol today, also lobbying governor desantis. >> i think you could say there was a mask in that alligator's mouth, which is appropriate for florida. sam brock, thank you, and stay safe out there. chuck? chuck's shot is frozen, so i'm going to take it back. noic has agre-- a senior admini

official confirmed they are aware of the situation and remain in coordination with south korea. the liaison office was established in 2018 in an effort to foster better ties between the north and the south. joining us is senior international correspondent keir simmons. what do we know? >> i feel like every time we report on north korea it's smart to add the proviso we don't know anything for sure. it's not lost on anyone in terms of the timing, that this should happen that north korea begins sabre rattling where the november elections over there are coming into view. at the same time i think it's interesting to note this very symbolic act on the border is not the same, for example, as firing off, testing intercontinental ballistic missile which would be more

threatening to the u.s. in a way what north korea is do is threatening an ally, south korea, without directly putting pressure on washington. another fascinating piece of north korea kremlin watching if you like, it's kim jong-un's sister who made the threat to do this, who appears to be leading these threats, is threatening now to move north korean military into a demilitarized area along the border. she's increasingly powerful. you know did domestic politics, in order to gain power, you have to show strength. there's multiple reasons this might be happening. aside from the international tension, tension inside the country, the borders have been closed because of the coronavirus surely is putting pressure on the leadership there. >> keir simmons, thank you very much for that reporting.

chuck, i seen you are unfrozen. welcome back. >> i'm going to blame me taking a mild shot at a gator that was some sort of university of florida conspiracy, knowing that as a fan of the true football team of champions there in the state of florida, university of miami, there was a gator conspiracy freezing me. [ laughter ] >> you got lucky with the freeze frame, though. >> well, you're right. >> it could have caught you at a much more awkward position, mid sentence or something. >> gosh only knows. anyway, thank. up next we're following the murder of ahmaud arbery in georgia, a new push to enact a hate crime law. it was something that jo-jo does not have. the bishop who is leading that charge, has for years, and he joins us next. can my side be firm?

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home ownership is arguably the most important path towards financial security for millions of americans, but for the black community, home ownership is now at its lowest point in 50 years. it is because of the decades-old practice driven by racism that still exists across the country today. nbc's steve patterson explain from chicago, one of the nation's most divided cities in our inequality in america series. >> reporter: chicago is a city

of neighborhoods. no matter where you live there's a tremendous amount of bride. on the city's south side has a reputation for violence and poverty, it's chatham neighborhood is full of tree-lined streets and well-kept homes including this house once owned by ernie banks. >> it's a very stable community. >> but when she applied for a mortgage. >> the bang said it was only worth $100,000. >> the bank said this house is worth $100,000. >> that's basically what the bank said. the appraisers are paid to be conservative, and they seem to be particularly conservative in black areas. >> that's consistent with what city bureau reporter aaron allen learned. he learned about redlining in school, the federal government's practice of drawing lines an neighborhoods deemed high risk. it began in the 1930s, making it

nearly impossible for residents in predom nenly black communities difficult to get loan. they examined $57 billion of mothers, 68% went to majority white neighborhoods. black neighborhoods got only 8%. affluent lincoln park got more lending than every black neighborhood combined. four times as many white neighborhoods than in black or latino. the systems exist that cause the boarded-up buildings. >> non-bank lenders response for -- the american bange ameris it does not fully capture the commitment, but activists are urging loaning of more in these

communities. >> tiffany smith has made it her mission to help others become homeowners. we have to begin talking about how we're going to fix this and create a system of equity within our city, within our state and within our country. >> reporter: hoping one day that neighborhood pride stems from a growi ining investment. >> that was steve patterson reporting. chuck, i'm so glad we aired this. it's a fundamental issue and why we have such drastic inequality in this country, redlining goes to the heart of it. it's something that frankly a lot of people do not learn about in school. i never learned about it in school. i thought i had a good education. clearly as good as it was, it was not all-encompassing, and as

more americans learn about it, as they should, i hope that enough outrage is expressed to turn things around, because in order to -- as you were saying in the report, to build generational wealth, home ownership is a key factor in that. >> correct. >> we have created an artificial market, and then these neighborhoods have been digging out of that artificial designation now for multiple generation. the earlier this afternoon the president signed an executive order on policing. the family, though, of ahmed ar -- ahmaud arbery met one of the signing of the order. his death has renewed calls for

a hate crime law to be adopted in georgia. that's been stalled in georgia's senate after passing in the house last year bishop jackson has been pushing for a hate crime law in georgia for some time. bish bishop, do you feel as if with some legislators, if you sat down with some republican state legislators, who have been skeptical, and after the arbery event, are they more open-minded? >> yes, i have. i sat in a meeting with lieutenant governor duncan yesterday, met with faith leaders across the state. i'm more optimist today than yesterday that we'll get a hate crimes law passed. the legislature will be in session another ten days.

they will define what kind of state georgia really is. >> can i get what happened the other night at werchdy's. the officer has been fired. the police chief has stepped down, she's resigned. what else do you think needs to be done? do you think criminal charges or civil charges should be brought against the officer who shot his weapon? >> yes, i do. what happened friday night was, again, another example of what happens to far too many blacks as it relates to law enforcement. yesterday at the rally in atlanta, we mentioned there were over 100 blacks who have been killed at the hand of law enforcement. most of them completely, totally unnecessarily. what happened friday was totalsly unnecessary. he in no way should have lost

his life because he was sleeping in the driveway of a wendy's. i'm just curious, when you look at ahmaud arbery, how much do you think this is maybe ignorance in some parts of the state as to what life is like for black georgians? >> well, a few minutes ago, i said the next ten days will define what georgia is really like. the fact of the matter is i met twice with governor kemp, yesterday met the third time with the-led governor. they have said over and over we're not going to tolerate -- any -- told me that we had a

16-year-old girl who came to church in gainesville georgia, who wanted to do what darren root did. we had three white supremacists arrested in another county in georgia, anden ahmaud arbery execution. the sad fact is we keep saying we won't tolerate hate, acts of hate keep getting committed. georgia can't do anything about it, boo you it does not have a hate crimes law. there is no credible excuse for georgia not to have a law. >> why do you think that two men could -- could kill ahmed ar berry in daylight as he was just running down the street? why do you think they felt empowered to do that, their alleged murder? >> well, it's because not only

in georgia, but all across the nation, there are a couple things that are said to justify what police do. one is i feared for my life. if a law enforcement officials says that, you almost automatically can be assured of being exonerated. the second thing is, he looked like somebody who had been robbing in our community, yet when you look at the statistics, there had been no record of robberies in that community. the third thing is, most of these things have what i call a ridiculous law called citizen's arrest. and it seems like the only citizens that seem to be arrested happen to look like me. >> bishop reginald t. jackson, we'll check back in with you in about 11 days to see what the next ten days are like. i hope to give you a good report. thank you so much.

>> you got it. katy, over to you. chuck, a new sign that president trump may have to work harder to win stays he carried comfortably in 2016. we have new numbers, next. to make up. miles to the job site. . . and anything else we set our sights on. miles that take us back to the places we want to go. and to the people who count on us. so, let's roll up our sleeves. because we've got miles to make up. i don't have to worry about that, do i?are irritated. harmful bacteria lurk just below the gum line. crest gum detoxify, voted product of the year. it works below the gum line to neutralize harmful plaque bacteria and help reverse early gum damage. gum detoxify, from crest.

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take on ra talk to your rheumatologist about rinvoq relief. rinvoq. make it your mission. if you can't afford your medicine, abbvie may be able to help. the new poll out in mississippi finds rising public support for removing the confederate emblem from the state's flag, 46% of mississippians support keeping it on the flag compared to 45% who support changing it. now in 2017, the polling divide was a bit wider.

for those who may recall, there was a 2001 statewide vote of changing the flag, at the time, 64% voted to keep the flag 19 years ago, 36% voted to remove it. mississippi is the only state flag left that retains the confederate battle emblem. katy, the governor wants to see a referendum next. i have a feeling that probably is how mississippi will go in dealing with that. >> yeah, news that ole miss is going to move one of their confederate statues off campus. only 140 days until the november election. i don't know if you knew that, of course you did. the latest average shows presummit tif democratic nominee joe biden leading donald trump by it a points. joining us now with the latest polling is nbc news national political correspondent steve kornacki at the big poll.

>> a good way to look at it, hillary clinton won that national popular vote by 3 million votes. let me draw your attention to one in particular, this is iowa, this was 2016, we didn't spend a lot of time on election night talking about iowa because it with was a blowout, donald trump won this thing basically by ten points over hillary clinton and because of that we look at iowa that's a trump state, a solidly red state, that's what we have been saying, keep if mind, iowa is a state that before 2016 was a state that barack obama won twice handily in fact, georgia w. bush squeaked it out in 2004. this is a state that has vote for democrats a lot in recent times, so that swing to trump was a dramatic swing. this from a des moines register

just yesterday, how about this, ten-point win for '16. it's basically dead even right now in iowa. 44% for trump. 43% for biden. same poll des moines register, 46%-43%. this is the epicenter, iowa was in 2016 for the obama trump voter, all these red counties went for obama switched to trump. more in iowa than any other state. that might make it swingy potentially in 2020. >> could be very well. how many states not in our battle ground have we seen in last two weeks show single-digit races? that in and of itself is a fascinating pattern that we have been chronicling with you, mr. kornacki that's it for us today. thank you for watching.

thank you for tuning in and trusting us. nicolle wallace and brian williams pick things up after this quick break. how about no no uh uh, no way come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card. i've been involved in. communications in the media n-n-n-no-no for 45 years. i've been taking prevagen on a regular basis for at least eight years.

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good day, brian williams here with you. 3:00 p.m. here in the west. 12 noon on the west coast. nicolle wallace will be along with us momentarily. but we begin with efforts to change policing in this country in the wake of nationwide protests now for the deaths of george floyd, breonna taylor, rayshard brooks and other african-americans who have died at the hands of law enforcement officers. president trump presiding over an event at times took on the tone and tenor of a campaign event, signed an executive order on police reform during a ceremony in the rose garden. administrative official tells nbc news the goal of the order is to take action without restricting the ability of cops to do their jobs. among other things, it bans the use of chokeholds a s unless an

officer's life is at risk. it encourages departments to adopt the highest possible standards. and track officers who have conducted multiple act of misconduct. calls for more resources, including social workers to help officers to respond to some nonviolent calls like homelessness, mental health issues. the president ignored a main issue driving the protests, which is systemic racism and policing. >> americans want law and order. they demand law and order. they may not say it, they may not be talking about it, but that's what they want. some of them don't even know that's what they want and they understand that when you remove the police, you hurt those who have the least the most.

nobody's more opposed to the small number of bad police officers and you have them, there are very tiny, i use the word tiny, it's a very small percentage, but you have them. but nobody wants to get rid of them more than the overwhelming number of really good and great police officers. >> some people may not even know they want law and order says the president. police reform also taking essential for stage on capitol hill. at this hour, the senate judiciary committee holding a hearing on the use of force by police officers. and ways to address institutional racism. this comes as south carolina senator tim scott who was at the white house for today's event prepares to unveil a republican-sponsored police reform package, lot of democrats don't believe the plan will go far enough, they took to the senate floor to push for a bill introduced by senators kamala

harris and cory booker. >> we have a bill that calls for change. that will protect lives. and practices that have killed americans, create accountability and transparency into departments and make sure that no one in our country is above the law, this is not a time for half-stepping and half-measures, not a time to nibble around the onlies. not a time to find the lowest common denominator, it's not a time where so many americans feel a metaphor call need on the knee on the neck of justice. >> as the police reform debates plays out in washington the city of atlanta waiting to hear whether prosecutors will file charges against one or both of those officers involved in the shooting of rayshard brooks.

the d.a. could announce his decision as soon as tomorrow. again, i'm joined by friend and colleague nicolle wallace, host of "deadline: white house." nicolle, that's the quote from the president, some people may not even know they want law and order, though they do. people expecting some sort of reflection on the anger in the streets as evidenced by the top to bottom, all demographic groups in the streets, we're not going to get it from today's white house event, nor do we know much about enforcement. >> yeah, and i scanned quickly for the congressional reaction to the president's announcement today and it would appear that nancy pelosi is done grading donald trump on curve, she has a pretty harsh statement out. we'll be talking to her later today. but, i think that when you are selling as a politician

something that the people don't know they need or want, you're in pretty deep political -- and to say nothing of the substance of the problem, 76% of the american people haven't agreed on something this front and center in a long time. and 76% of the country sees systemic racism as an urgent problem. so i think if you just listen to what you just played, cory booker is talking to the 76% and we all know that donald trump is usually talking to a much smaller swath of the country, but people know a lot more than me are joining us yamice alcindor. and frank figliuzzi. yamiche, i want to spoke with some of the people at that rose garden event, tell us about it. >> i spoke to the brother of

everett palmer who spent an hour in a meeting with donald trump. he said the president was sympathetic. families talked for about two minutes about the loss. everett palmer died mysteriously in a pennsylvania jail. the message they took away the president seemed sympathetic. but the thing that i talked to the brother who was in that meeting, he told me that -- the president also used a lot of platitudes. he was saying, i'm sure he was a great kid, this is a terrible thing. that person told me we're beyond kind words, they want to see action. they want to see other things with way more teeth in it, they want to see qualified immunity, allows police officers no tot have legal liability if they kill someone in certain situations. they want to see those things be brought to the forefront. so my feeling after talking to

that family member and the lawyer for that family member is, the meeting went as well as it could be but they want to see a lot more action from president and not just nice words. >> you know, and frank, back to this idea of nancy pelosi not grading him on a curve. let's hope that the president can be respectful of families that have lost loved ones. i do want you to take us through and sort of score each of these steps, the chokeholds not being used unless an officer's life is in danger, is that really a departure? >> right, so, let's put this first on the ma krshcro level a then dig deeper. first, it's clear to most people that policing in america is like a hospital patient in need of

reconstructive surgery, we need to start all over again. what we got today was more like trump as dr. who was putting a band-aid on broken bones, he's acknowledging that there's an illness he's essentially sending the patient home to figure it out on their own. lot of similarities to the approach he's taken with coronavirus. let the states and municipalities figure it out. how is that going for us with regard to the virus? the numbers are in wrong direction. after today, essentially leaving this state to municipalities and you're going to see the numbers go in the wrong direction in terms of police behavior, it's going divide the nation even further, states will get it right, cities will get it right and those who don't. bad cops will be aattracted to those cities and states that don't get it right. i like the idea of a national

database. tracking bad cops is absolutely necessary and the glaring example of that is the shooting death of a 12-year-old boy in cleveland, ohio, named tamir rice by a cop, if cleveland pd pulled his file from the department down the road where he had left they would have found a nation, mentally unstable, unfit to be a police officer. what's the database going to track? if it just use of force issue it wouldn't have caught the police officer who shot and killed the 12-year-old boy. secondly, i love the idea of a financial incentive to get it right. you're going to get federal grants to help you through this and get a credit. what i don't like that, that's all carrot and no stick. what happens if you choose to decline grant money, you choose to not get it right, there should be a disincentive and on

the chokehold, look, i love the idea that we're addressing the chokehold and yes, i think it's time to say don't do it unless you're absolutely in fear for your life. i still want to give that officer fighting for his or her life give them an option that will save their life. the distinction between a chokehold and a carotid artery hold, it doesn't work when you're fighting for your life on sidewalk. you're talking about a matter of the inch and the wind pipe versus the artery, that's nonsense that only works in the gym and not on the street. >> yamiche, a point our mutual friend maya wiley brought up has to do with optics and in many ways we're not lacking for any

substance in this argument, also optics have never been so important, because the protest movement in its 22nd day in these streets of our cities and towns is a kaleidoscopic move of american life, all encompassing. maya was making the point that this event lacked those opt ix, it's also clear that the president is going to test-drive just how many voters are attracted to the law and order label and he was hardly speaking in code, telling them more people care about it than may even know themselves. >> that's right, you could see in the rose garden that the president as he was even rolling out this executive order, which is one of the most sweeping things that he's done in his presidency in terms of policing.

he was still trying to make sure that he was placating and winking to his base and making sure people understood that he's still wanting to be that law and order president. in talking to the brother of a man who died mysteriously in that pennsylvania prison who met with the president for an hour, he told me he was so worried about optics they almost didn't come. they saw reporting on msnbc with a conversation that i had with steve that the families don't want to be used as props. dwayne told me that was the thing that changed his mind and allowed him to get on the plane and come to washington, d.c. and the families made sure they didn't want to be in the rose dparden because they understand optics as well. we wanted to make sure we had a private meeting, and we wanted action. we'll give presicredit when he . we understand this executive

order is one step. people are very, very understanding of the fact that the president could use in theory these families as props. it goes to the power of what people are thinking in this moment, what the protests mean and also in our reporting, when we think about how families are moved by the reporting that they can actually meet with the president. a touching story that he shared with me that i'm happy to share with you. >> yes, and frank, over to your area, can you assure us that there will come a day when young frank figliuzzi enter law enforcement and de-escalation is as important at the academy as firearm training? >> so this -- this gets to the heart, brian, of who we are

recruiting for the job. we have to literally redefine policing before we can redefine the role of a police officer. and recruit the right people for that role. we're essentially not getting that done right now. and some of that goes toward money, that's why this mantra of defund the police has to be totally understood holistly on what that means. federal money would go to the right kind of recruiting, vetting and selection process because -- we need soft, verbal skills. we need those skills on the street, we don't need militaristic battle skills. the day will come when we recruit the right people. >> striking to real a phrase of soft verbal skills applied to the kind of policing we have been covering now for 22 days. thanks to yamiche and frank for joining us and getting our

coverage started this hour. a break in our coverage. when we come back, president trump and vice president pence both saying wrongly that the number of coronavirus cases in our country is only as high as it is because of the amount of testing we are doing. the experts telling us that's just not true. the surge we're seeing can be attributed to the easing of restrictions and the drug treatment being held ailed as a major breakthrough, we'll explain. you can't predict the future.

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the trump white house has made it abundantly clear that addressing the pandemic is no longer a priority. they would like to move on as the president looks ahead to his first campaign rally in months this coming weekend. in all of places a city in the middle of a spike. as the trump team shifts its focus to the november election, coronavirus cases continue to spike in various states across our country. both president trump and vice president pence are however down playing the seriousness of the virus. in a conference call, the vice president urged governors to continue to explain to your citizens the magnitude of increase in testing and that in month most of the cases where

we're seeing some marginal rise in number, that's more a result of the extraordinary work you're doing. the president has echoed this misleading claim himself in much simpler terms. >> if you don't test, you don't have any cases. if we stop testing right now, we would have very few cases, if any. >> but the data of course paints a different picture in the real world. according the times, you can see cluster of coronavirus cases spiking in states like florida and alabama and the carolinas, all states that were faster to reopen than those in the northeast. >> joining our conversation is someone with vast knowledge of the interworkings of washington, d.c., former two-term democratic senator, our friend claire mccaskill of missouri. claire, i follow your tweets. i go looking for them at the end of the day. and i know that on both the lies now being told and asking the

governors to tell their lies for them, coupled with the lack of accountability over the economic measures, you're at your wits' end. >> well, you know, first of all, pence has now adopted the ethos of this presidency, which is when in doubt just lie. just lie. web things don't look good, lie. the president on the other hand, just looks stupid. i mean, you know, that's like something there's not a death certificate you didn't die? we know that cases are rising faster than testing in many states in our country right now. primarily in the south and the southwest. we know that hospitalizations are going up. we know the percentage of positives are going up in the south and the west.

this is not magic. this is -- as much as they want this to going away it's not going away. our bar graphic on of our country is such an indictment on our leadership. other countries have nagt not only flattened the curve they brought the level down. our level is remaining almost solid with thousands and thousands of new cases every single day. >> claire, is it fair to ask where the federal government is? is everyone with a hand in this prepared to have at the end of their life as part of their obituary, that in matter of public health, they ended up silenced and yielding to this president, it's not inconceivable that in normal times the cdc wouldn't say to the white house, actually, this gathering in tulsa matches our

definition of worst case scenario, large scale, indoor, public event, where the people have been drawn from different locations and backgrounds and let's double down on that, a venue that sits 19,000, now they've announced a potential of 60,000 people in the overflow next door in the convention center. task force is silent. cdc is silent. i want us all to be up front about it. >> he shut them all down. we hardly -- does anyone remember dr. fauci? i read somewhere he hadn't talked to the president in over two weeks. even though we're seeing this very concerning uptick, there are more states that are flat are going up than are going down right now. you know the cdc is silent. and listen, i know they are saying, but what about the

protests? the protests are outdoors, first of all, they are younger than trump's rally will be, i guarantee you that, a lot of older people in this rally, and it's recipe for disaster, he's clearly willing to accept that although i'm willing to bet he shuts down contact tracing and refuses to allow people to know who's at that rally, i bet he won't share that with the public health agencies because they'll do everything to make it everything's okay even if the truth is something far different. >> claire, with your comments about contact tracing you're really painting a sort of cataclysmic public health scenario, also a disastrous political situation, donald trump is going to bring 19,000 to 60,000-plus people into a

closed-door, an overflow area in a state where the cases are spiking. the public health is a disaster. the politics seem irrecovableab irrecovableable. >> that's really interesting, nicolle. we've been in rooms where there have been bare-knuckle political discussions about what's good policy and what's good politics. we know this is bad policy. let's look at the politics of it. he's going to swing states, sometimes he's going to bright red states. he says he's going to texas and to arizona, here's -- and alabama, here's the thing, those independent voters in those states they don't like this. he's not helping himself in those states. those states where he -- i mean, who would have guessed that he would be within the margin of error in iowa at this point? and yet, he's actually -- he

needs so badly to see the crowds and to get that sustenance that he needs, his ego needs, adoring masses and aren't you wonderful? he's so insecure, he's so desperate for that, he's overlooking in what many ways is political mall practice, if it goes badly, it will hurt him in places where he can't afford to get hurt. >> claire mccaskill. cla claire, always a pleasure. another break for us. when we return, researchers in uk say they discovered a breakthrough treatment in the fight against coronavirus that could save lives, it comes next to a well-known drug that's been around for decades and while we have heard that before, to describe how hydroxychloroquine, this time it may have actual real effects. later, the science writer

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as fears heighten here at home and globally of a second wave of coronavirus, let's take a look at the facts of this pandemic. as we know them. at the bottom of the hour. today, there are more than 2.1 million cases in the u.s. the death toll has