good day, everyone. just about to hit high noon here in the east. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." bolton book decision. a short time ago the judge weighing in on a publication of a white house memoir. standoff at the justice department. william barr versus the u.s. attorney investigating trump associates. hours to go. the tension in tulsa, as the president gets ready for his controversial campaign rally. plus the words that did not come easy for the vice president. >> if those are words that you will utter right here, right here today, black lives matter, can you say those words? >> well, brian, let me say what happened to george floyd was a tragedy. >> and the push for police reform, whether real change is in the works and what it's starting to look like. first up this hour, breaking

news to share. a federal judge has just denied the trump administration's request to block a tell-all book by former national security adviser john bolton. nbc's josh lederman is at the white house with all of this. what can you tell us about all of this? >> reporter: president trump on twitter is calling this a big court win for himself, noting that the judge really excorciated john bolton for publishing this book and arguing there's nothing the judge could have really done to actually block the book from coming out. trump is right that the judge went sharply after john bolton in this ten-page order that we have been reviewing, saying that he actually -- the judge actually met with the government and reviewed classified documents that they had provided and concurred that there probably is classified information that john bolton has disclosed as a result of publishing this book. but make no mistake about it,

this was not a win for the trump white house. the trump administration had asked the judge to issue an injunction, to block the release of that book, but the judge in this ten-page order arguing that the horse is out of the bannerns he put it, hundreds of thousands of copies distributed, many, including us at msnbc, have gotten a copy of it, and arguing that an injunction would do nothing to keep this information from coming out. >> hard to see how the administration is seeing this as a win. that book set to come out tuesday. that showdown right now between the doj and the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, who had investigated some of the president's closest allies. what is this all about, josh? >> reporter: yes. u.s. attorney berman in new york refusing to step aside after the attorney general had announced that he had stepped down, but

berman saying that is not true, that he learned about it from a press release and saying he is not planning to go anywhere. that is creating a real standoff between the justice department and the federal prosecutor's office in new york. we don't exactly know yet what this is about or what was so urgent for the trump administration to want jeffrey berman out of the way that they would try to get rid of him on a friday night, against his wishes without a senate confirmed replacement waiting in the wings, but we do know that jeffrey berman's office had been investigating a whole lot of things with relation to president trump and his allies. there was a subpoena issued on the trump inaugural campaign related to potential violations of campaign finance and other law as well as investigations into the president's personal attorney, rudy juligiuliani. a lot of questions that lawmakers and others have about why the trump administration wanted geoffrey berman gone and whether they even have the

authority to get rid of him in this manner. >> the bottom line, josh, at least for now, geoffrey berman has a job, right? >> reporter: that's right. there are some questions about whether the justice department could try to move to cut off some of his access to documents or his computer systems, but for now, he is remaining in control of that u.s. federal prosecutor's office in new york. >> okay. nbc's josh lederman at the white house. thank you, josh, for answering the breaking news on both fronts. the president's first 2020 campaign rally, the first in tulsa, oklahoma. hundreds gathering outside the arena where the president is set to speak a few hours from now. the rally marred by controversy over its location, timing and safety precautions amid the covid pandemic. morgan chessky is already there for us. morgan, as you have reported this week, people are camped out. it's happened for days now. you've been there as well, talking to folks. we're about eight hours away from the start of the rally.

what's the mood like? >> reporter: i think there's only one word you can say, alex. that is that excitement. people have come from all over the nation right here to tulsa, oklahoma. they're waiting to get inside this gated area where the bags are checked. then they'll start another waiting process. that will be gathering outside that arena today where president trump will take the stage. that's just one of many events scheduled today. we know that as people make their way through these gates right here, they are handed one of those masks that we've been talking about this week. important to note, while the masks are handed out, they're not required to wear for people here at the rally, alex. but once they get closer to the arena, there's really a whole day's worth of activities planned. they're flying in about 15 high-profile supporters, celebrities, entertainers. there's an outdoor stage that's set up across the street from that arena. president trump also expected to make some remarks there, and we know that some of his family

also expected to attend today. this rally, meanwhile, is going to be about 19,000 strong. the campaign tells me they're anticipating about 100,000 people, alex. thousands have arrived here in tulsa ahead of this rally but we'll have to wait for a full head count right now. several blocks of downtown are blocked off just out of security -- for security sake right now. it is a bit of a hike. you can see, this is how they're breaking up the crowds, walking through these barriers. they're doing their best to social distance, alex. when you have this many people in this confined of an area, it's tough. social distancing and mask wear, two of the big topics that happened this week. the campaign telling me, we just want people to choose. we entrust americans to make the right choice for themselves. if they are at risk we're asking

them to stay at home. we had a chaps to speak to several people in the crowd. i want you to hear what they're saying about this event in their own words. take a listen. >> they're going to do temperature checks and all this. i think it's pretty safe, because we've been open in oklahoma for a little while. >> oh, i'm not wearing a mask. i haven't yet. i'm not going to start today. i think a lot of the numbers and everything have been hyped up. i'm in good health. i get a lot of sunshine, eat well. it's more about your immune system, i think. >> reporter: so, you're hearing from them. everyone aware that the virus still certainly exists. oklahoma, tulsa in particular, being a recent hot spot, breaking daily highs over the past week. however, even with the awareness of that pandemic, alex, it's not keeping anyone from showing up today. >> what was interesting is those people with whom you spoke, a

lot of eye i's in there, not a of us or we in their speaking about covid. something to note. joining me now, derek johnson, president of the naacp. look, we're seeing long-standing monuments -- they've been coming down this week. contrast that with the president going ahead with his campaign rally in tulsa less than 24 hours after juneteenth. there's a lot to unpack here. first, let's talk about the tulsa rally. why do you think trump chose tulsa? is this a certain moment or is it an insult to hold the rally there today? >> you know, this administration, particularly trump's campaign, they continue to play to their base. it's a shrinking number of individuals. oklahoma is a reliable, red state. he wanted to go somewhere safe so he could practice his speech. it's unfortunate that many of the crowd have rejected not only science, but the current health

pandemic that we are in. so as citizens, we must continue to push the right narrative, that we are in a health crisis and we should take the necessary precautions, even if there is a shrinking number of individuals who reject science and reject the fact that this pandemic can have a deathly impact on their lives. >> since the greenwood massacre some 90 years ago, african-americans have been fighting for the stolen land to be returned to their community. nearly a century later, city and state officials have not made that happen. what's the point of the president showing up there, at all, if he has no plans to announce some sort of reparations, or do you think, do you expect he will? >> i doubt he would mention anything like that. this is almost like reagan showing up in 1980, despite

what's taking place in the streets, i'm with you, the image he sees in a mirror. dog whistle politics, national trend of individuals across the globe. you look at protesters -- you see america, young, old, black, white, people who are concerned not only about our democracy, but making sure we address the structural racism that has plagued this nation for decades. >> look, derrick, when it comes to symbolism, wasn't there anyplace else that the president could have gone, in your words, to practice his speech in a safe place? did it have to be tulsa? >> it should not have been tulsa. it's also the lack of advisers who voupd him that kol from the african-american community. this presidency, perhaps, is the most monolith presidency we've seen since the '50s or perhaps even woodrow wilson. he surrounds himself by people who think like him, act like m

him, look like him. therefore, unless there's a backlash. then if the backlash rally of his base, then he will go deeper in the wrong direction. this democracy cannot survive another four years of this level of others. >> the vice president is scheduled to meet with some african-american leaders from tulsa today. just yesterday, pence was asked why some republicans, including pence himself, have trouble saying the words "black lives matter." here is some that have exchange. take a listen. >> i wonder, sir, if those are words that you will utter, right here, right here today, black lives matter. can you say those words? >> well, brian, let me just say that what happened to george floyd was a tragedy, and in this nation, especially on juneteenth, we celebrate the fact that from the founding of this nation, we cherish the ideal that all, all of us are

created equal. >> so why will you not say those words? >> well, i don't accept the fact, brian, that there's a segment of american society that disagrees in the preciousness and importance of every human life. >> do you buy that, derrick? >> i simply don't buy that. you see his words reflected in their policy and executive orders. they don't understand the importance of declaring a fact that the lives of black matter -- black lives matter. the only reason why we've gotten to this place is because of the rash of individual acts, whether it was of vigilantes with trayvon martin or law enforcement who simply disregard the life of blacks. whether jury nullifications of convicting those involved, z

zimmerman, or refusal of district attorney to step up and value a black life as we've seen with the ahmaud arbery case and the breonna taylor case, with those officers have not been to justice. >> we're looking live at what's happening in tulsa right now. you see increasing tension, shall we describe it? two officers have come into that picture. there you see somebody who is protesting black lives matter, saying i can't breathe on behalf of black lives matter, sitting down, very quietly there in the middle of the street. although she's clearly being asked some questions. the man in gray, if i read his card, lanyard thing correctly says he's part of a trump rally. it looks like this woman is beginning to pray. you have two police officers who are circling quite closely. certainly not keeping six-foot distance in these covid times, that's for sure. let's listen to some of the exchange. >> i have a right to be here.

>> i don't know if you have a right to be here. >> it's a public event. >> i have a ticket. >> it's a private event. they can ask whoever they like to leave. are you going to -- >> yes. >> this woman, derrick, is saying she's got a right to be there. which, of course, she does. and clearly this has caught the attention of the news media. you can see that she has placed herself right in front of the area through which anybody attending this trump rally tonight has to walk to get their face masks, hand sanitizers. we haven't seen evidence of temperatures being taken yet. perhaps that happens closer to rally time and closer to the

arena itself. it would look as if that police officer is calling a superior, call be somebody to say this is the situation. take a listen. >> this is my country. this is my country. this is my city. i have tickets for this event. i have clothes on. i'm protected. what's the problem? >> it's a private event. >> i have tickets to your private event. >> this is our area. >> it's part of my event. >> when we ask you to leave, it's like somebody to leave their own personal, private property. >> i've been invited and have a ticket. >> my job of the campaign is to officially uninvite you. >> you're watching this along with me, derrick. she said she has tickets to this event so she has every right to be there. she would have a right to be there regardless to whether or not she had tickets. what do you see when you see someone like this, boldly

standing up to authority there and say i'm trying to sit here, make a statement with my t-shirt and say to folks, you cannot remove me? >> you know, i hope congressman john lewis is watching this. this is called getting in good trouble. martin luther king, mother theresa and gandhi and so many others using the power of their agency to have peaceful protests in the midst of unjust situation. as you see her, she is an admitted guest of the event. she is peacefully sitting and praying. she's properly clothed with a mask on. one of the law enforcement officers, he doesn't even have a mask on. i hope congressman lewis is watching this. this is consistent with getting in good trouble. she is getting in good trouble. what we're seeing now is the campaign not wanting to have a counternarrative, a counter

image that addresses the unju unjustness across this country. as she sits there and says i cannot breathe, that's what african-americans have been saying for decades. we cannot breathe under a structural situation that's oppressive and refuse us to exist in a just society that provides equal protection under the law. i commend her. >> you look at this trump campaign worker, derrick, specifically trying to place himself between her and some sort of news or media crew that are trying to get her opinion. he went right there to try to block their ability to get her otherwise on camera or appropriately with a microphone. you know, something like this, derrick, good trouble, yes. abiding by all the rules, yes. but do you worry that this could potentially not end well for her, for this demonstrator? >> well, unfortunately, i do.

you have individuals who align themselves with a perspective. they say they want freedom of speech. they say they want freedom of expression. she's demonstrating that, but they would deny her because the speech that she's speaking, they disagree with. she is in her right. it's a private event but she has done everything necessary to be an invited guest. she has tickets. she's there. there's nothing wrong with her sitting there, the way she's sitting there. she's not disturbing anyone. they may dislike her shirt and not want her to be interviewed but if those individuals say they value the first amendment and second amendment, she's practicing her first amendment right, which is a supreme amendment in this country, the freedom of speech. >> just watching that tulsa police officer approaching her, certainly within the six-feet distance but appropriately masking himself while speaking with her, we have to note that is something that is positive.

let's listen to what he's saying. >> i've been told by my command that if you do not peacefully leave we'll have to arrest you. i don't want to have to do that. >> i'm staying here. >> okay. derrick, he has just said she will be arrested for trespassing, that they have the right to do so. he did very politely say i don't want to have to do that. she said i'm not moving. does this still fall, in your mind, under the as yuspices of d trouble? >> absolutely. she is a ticketed guest to the event. she's not trespassing. she complied with the requirement. she received a ticket. she entered with her ticket and she's sitting there. she's not disturbing anyone. she's sitting there, and they approached her. good trouble. >> morgan chessky has joined us.

thank you for joining us. i think i see the back of you there. morgan, what's going on? what are you able to hear that we may not have been able to pick up so clearly? morgan chesky, can you hear me? hmm. i guess he's not able to hear me. although i thought i saw the back of morgan's head taking a photo there. let's take a listen, guys. >> i've asked you to leave.

we're going to put handcuffs on you and pick you up gently. i don't want to hurt you at all. last thing i want to do is hurt you. okay? >> no. >> yeah, i'm here. >> hey, morgan, i understand you're now hooked up with us. tell me what just transpired. has he said he will have to put cuffs on her? what did we just miss there? i was trying to strain as i listened. >> yeah, alex. if you can hear me right now, we are just a few feet away from this. and a police officer has told this woman if she won't comply they'll remove her for trespassing. that's what they're doing right now. she said they're removing her from this scene, and we're right behind tuls camera police here. we'll keep moving along. this woman told police minutes ago, alex, she had a ticket.

>> how is that trespassing? >> the officers said just because you have a ticket -- that's what we're trying to figure out right now, alex. >> they're arresting me. they're arresting me. >> reporter: they're placing her under arrest, alex. >> i've done nothing. i have tickets to this event. no. >> reporter: morgan, let me check where she was sitting, was she in any way impeding access to the event? >> help, no, they hurt. they hurt. stop this. >> reporter: it did not appear she was impeding access. she was wearing an "i can't breathe" shirt. people were walking down the sidewalk here, away from the main entrance point. we know had an handcuffs have been placed on the woman right now just behind them. and they asked her, we do not want to take you out by force.

however if you don't comply with us, we'll have to remove you from this setting right now. and so, ma'am, if you can hear me, can you tell me why officers told you what you did wrong? >> i was trespassing. and they're raes arresting me. >> they told you you were trespassing and breaking the law? >> and i have a ticket. >> reporter: what did you come here today to do, ma'am you had a ticket, right? >> yes. yes. >> and were you coming here to protest the president's arrival or to attend the rally? tell me why? >> so i can put on my mask, please. >> reporter: stay with me, alex. we're walking with officers right now. >> are you from an organized group? >> no. >> why did you come today? >> just because of this. because of this.

because of what's happening. look at me. >> i can't breathe? >> they're arresting me for this, saying i trespassed. >> reporter: i don't know if you can hear but the woman said they're saying she's trespassing because she has an "i can't breathe" shirt on. that's the main reason she says she came out here today. we're 2, 2 1/2 blocks from the main entrance. tulsa police is loading her into a cruiser. >> my name is sheila buck. i'm a citizen of the united states. >> reporter: sheila, where do you live? >> oklahoma, 420 south elm. >> reporter: she willa do you live in tulsa? >> tulsa. >> reporter: sheila buck, alex, is that woman's name. she's being loaded in the front seat of a tulsa cruiser for trespassing at the president's rally. >> let me ask you one more question. i'm just trying to --

>> reporter: stand by. so it appears we're behind the barriers. they're loading miss buck into this cruiser. you heard her say that she is a tulsa resident. >> right. >> reporter: and that she came out here today to protest, wearing that "i can't breathe" shirt. it was a very fluid situation. she was removed from the crowd initially, sat on pavement outside that entrance and that's where officers began to have a dialogue with her in which the tulsa police said ma'am, you're being removed from this event for trespassing. you can either stand up on your own or we can walk you outside or we'll have to take you by force. that's what we witnessed play out right now. this is the first person we've seen removed from this crowd upwards of what we're expecting 100,000 people. we'll follow up. but, again, sheila buck says that she came here, wearing an "i can't breathe" shirt. that's kind of what started this arrest that we watched play out

in real time. alex? >> i want to double-check. i think i'm answering my own question. i now see those saw horses there behind you. there was no way that she -- >> reporter: i lost you. >> morgan, was she blocking foot traffic, car access? i mean, i can't figure out why she would be trespassing if she has a ticket, and to attend the rally like anybody else. >> reporter: apologize, i can't hear you right now. we're going to work on that. >> morgan, you've done a great job bringing me that. appreciate it. derrick johnson with the naacp and president and ceo of that. you see this woman, tulsa citizen identified herself as a resident of tulsa and united states citizen being carted away f for, as you said, good trouble. we wrap up our conversation with this extraordinary interlude here, what's your takeaway? >> you look at that scene. you have someone who is peacefully demonstrating. she had the right to be in the

location. there was no apparent disruption or interference with anyone's ability to participate in the event. she's arrested. but what is striking to me now is the tulsa police put her in the front seat. just last week we've seen a teenage boy in tulsa walking in the street, because there are no sidewalks. the grass is overgrown. the police arrest him for jaywalking when there are no sidewalks. they handcuffed him and put him in the backseat. this exemplifies the problem with law enforcement today. these law enforcement officers could have simply said to the trump campaign team she's not trespassing. if she has a ticket, she has a right to be here. you may not like what's on her shirt or the fact that she's sitting down but she's not trespa trespassing. she's not breaking any law. these police officers who are poorly trained or align with a

philosophy enforced a rule that doesn't exist. she should never have been taken out of there. this is good trouble but this is also the danger we're living in today. we must end this administration's reign of terror across communities across this country. >> derrick johnson, president of the naacp. thank you for your time and staying with us. much appreciated. ted liu, house judiciary and foreign affairs committees. we are a little late getting to you, my friend, because we had to get through this. what were you thinking as you watched this play out in tulsa? >> thank you, alex, for your question. my first thought was she was not doing anything wrong. she simply wore a shirt that said "i can't breathe" for that reason, they took her out of line. you hear republicans talk about free speech all the time until they see speech they do not like. she was not disrupting anyone did should not have removed her.

>> did you hear anything, congressman, that made you think that the police acted in any way that was inappropriate other than removing her? this is a big other. she's being removed for trespassing, yet she has a ticket and the like. what i was able to hear on a positive note, at least i believe there was respect shown to this woman who was clearly protesting and they had their masks on. did you pick up anything that would change that interpretation? >> i did not. of course, there are also multiple tv cameras filming this incident. that's one reason we need body cams on all police officers. when you know they're being filmed you're going to tend to get better behavior. >> when you consider that this president, as my previous guest just said, he wanted to come to tulsa to give a rally that was somewhat safe.

how surprised are you that he chose tulsa, with the greenwood area going on 100 years of the horrific massacre there? did it have to be tulsa? >> no. it shows that this administration still doesn't get it. for example, we saw that vice president mike pence couldn't even say the words "black lives matter." of course, all lives matter but the reason we say black lives matter is because the system undervalues black lives. you have the systematic murder of black americans by our government. that's why we've had millions of protesters and demonstrators and for the vice president not to understand that, for the president not to be able to say though words shows you where they're coming from. this is a politically safe place for the president but totally not safe for people who are participating. many are not social distancing, they're not wearing masks and they're indoors. this is going to be one big

super spreading event for krchd and it's really disappointing that the president chose to have a rally in the middle of a pandemic. >> on that note, with the campaign having required everyone who attends, goes inside that arena, they have to sign disclaimers saying if we get sick with covid we will not bring suit geps this president or this administration. what does it say to you that they still plow ahead? that could have changed it to an outdoor rally. that would have helped by some measure, right? >> absolutely. we know that the places where there's high transmission of coronavirus are indoor places where people are talking about people are next to each other for long periods of time. that is exactly this rally. not only do we have no social distancing, we have a lot of people who are intentionally not wearing masks and what we're going to see from this are people getting sick and potentially dying because of

this rally and the president of the united states just doesn't care. >> yeah. let me ask you a little bit about the john bolton book. as you know, just an hour and change ago, the justice department lost its bid to try to have this book stopped in its tracks. i say that with air quotes because that book has opinion out there. we at msnbc news have copies of the book. multiple reporters have written about the book. excerpts have been released. logistically speaking it's on its way to being shipped to book stores and up for public release and sale on tuesday. the fact that the federal judge declined to order this thing shut down, try to stop it in its tracks, what does that say to you, and how much have you heard about this book that you think is potentially damning in terms of what john bolton witnessed during his time with the administration? >> so, two thoughts. the first amendment is still alive and well. i am pleased that the judge has not restricted this book. and, second, the excerpts from

john bolton's book are damning. it shows that donald trump puts his own interests above those of america. for him to basically plead with the chinese president to help re-elect him, that is outrageous. that is traitorous kind of behavior and the american people have a choice this november. do they want someone who is going to use foreign countries to assist him or do you want someone who is going to put america first? >> so that point that you make right there, the book bolton is blaming democrats for what he calls impeachment malpractice, because democrats only focused on ukraine. part of what he writes is that had the house not focused solely on ukraine, there might have been a greater chance to persuade others that high crimes and misdemeanors had been perpetrated. what do you say to that? that, i would like you to think about. also, had he been called up to testify and done so, might there have been a different outcome in the end? >> well, so guess what?

we didn't know about that china incident. do you know who knew about it? john bolton, and he intentionally chose not to come to the house and provide what he knew to the american people at the time. he wanted to have a book and make money off of it. it's despicable. that doesn't mean his book is false or not true. because the administration tried so hard to stop its publication, it tells me that they're scared of what's in this book and that it is true, because if it's classified it has to be true. >> that was the argument that the doj was making, because this book contained classified information, it should be stopped in its track. yet you look at the president's twitter feed, he says it's a bunch of lies. how can both be true? >> it cannot. and donald trump is lying again. what's in this book, if their assertion is that he shouldn't publish it, because it's classified then, in fact, it is true. for example, if i told you i had a classified meeting yesterday with people from mars, that wouldn't be classified because

it's not true. it would only be classified if i said something that was true and it was classified. >> representative ted liu, good to see you as always. thanks for taking the time on weekends with alex witt. have a good one. let's look at less than a mile away from the president's rally. we're talking about the greenwood district of tulsa. that neighborhood that nearly 99 years ago was burned to the ground in one of the deadliest days in black history. priscilla thompson is there along what was known as black wall street. priscilla, welcome to you. the reaction to the timing and location of the president's rally, what are you hearing about that? >> reporter: well, alex, good afternoon. just yesterday, this area was bustling with people walking along these bright yellow letters that read "black lives matter" in order to celebrate juneteenth, a holiday that is about freedom and liberation, and many folks here tell me that that is in stark contrast to the message that donald trump will likely present this evening.

folks feel that his language is about division and divisiveness and that's simply not what's needed in the country or in this community at this time. i spoke with the owner of the art gallery here. he was telling me that, if anything, donald trump should not be coming here at this time to, you know, hold a rally and energize his base but rather to educate himself about the history here in tulsa and to think about the stand that he wants to take in this moment in the united states. take a listen to what that business owner told me. >> it's more about him understanding our history, understanding our plight and understanding we're at an unprecedented time right now. neither trump nor pence have said anything in support of the movement, black lives matter, nor said anything about juneteenth, other than trump made it popular. >> reporter: and the other thing, alex, that i'm hearing from folks down here is that with this trump rally comes the possibility for protesters and,

thus, counter protesters and folks would hate to see any of that spill over into this black wall street area that is still healing and grappling with the complicated history here. and as they're preparing for the centennial, the 100-year commemoration of that massacre that killed so many people here, alex. >> okay. priscilla, real quickly, anybody you speak with planning to attend that rally today, tonight? >> reporter: no one that i have spoken with is planning to be there. in fact, one man told me that he would actually close his business if donald trump were to come down to this greenwood area and visit. so folks certainly haven't been talking about going over to the bok center for that. >> sounds good. thank you so much for that. appreciate that, priscilla. let's head overseas now and all the protests over the death of george floyd. they're expanding to more countries already today. rallies in paris, edinboro, london, supporting the black lives matter movement. joining me now from london, my

colleague matt bradley. i know rallies there got a little bit tense this time last weekend. how about today, what's it like? >> that's right, today it's been totally peaceful. police are coming up behind me. we're at the trail end of this rather large protest, a couple thousand people. we just passed scotland yard. it's a festival-like atmosphere but there is a lot of anger and lot of feeling, as you mentioned, they want to support their like-minded friends and sporters in the united states, pushing for anti-racism in america, but everybody i've spoken here is quick to remind me this is not an american issue. they've been protesting for nearly a month now and for them this isn't just about showing solidarity with americans, this is about affecting change here in britain and throughout the world. that's why we've seen these protests going on for four week s now. that violence last week as you

mentioned, there was violence on both sides. from the most part it was from right-wing protesters who showed up, ostensably, they said, to protect statues. it's spilling out into america where activists are going after statues and people on the right or supporting trump, or otherwise, are trying to defend them. what we saw last week ways churchill statue. someone wrote racist under it. today, you can see police officers were surrounding that churchill statue. this is a sensitive issue here, one that's bringing up a lot of the buried ghosts of british past. alex? >> it's a tough one. winston churchill evoked such reverence with his name. difficult times there. matt bradley, thank you so much for that. >> reporter: sure.

my next guest says trump offers merely bread crumbs. offers merely bread crumbs how about no

no uh uh, no way come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card. n-n-n-no-no around here, nobody ever does it. i didn't do it. so when i heard they added ultra oxi to the cleaning power of tide, it was just what we needed. dad? i didn't do it. #1 stain and odor fighter, #1 trusted. it's got to be tide. now to the push for police reform after weeks of protest, colorado is now the latest state to pass a sweeping police reform bill. that bill will put an end to qualified immunity, ban choke holds and require members of the police to report other officers for wrongdoing. joining me now, alexis hogue, civil rights, and in residence

at columbia law school. alexis, with colorado now being one of the first states to end qualified immunity, how significant is that? >> it's quite significant. to be clear for our viewers, qualified immunity is a mechanism that allows a shield to prevent police officer accountability. and so it exists at the federal level, but we have colorado now addressing their state analog. i hope this is one example of many states that is going further than the federal government is willing to go to allow for police accountability. >> alexis, allowing members of the police, actually requiring them to report other officers for wrongdoing, that's quite something, given the loyalty of the code of blue, if you will. does that surprise you, that that was put into this bill? and do you think that would be

effective? will it happen? >> it's quite effective. in colorado, again, it's a state that's well situated. i want to remind our readers, our viewers, that we have 18,000 police departments in our country. most are under local municipal county control and so colorado is well situated to make these kind of changes. but i also want to stress that this is just the beginning. because right now, many of the police reform measures that are being discussed not just in colorado but across the country and in the federal government, they define a problem too narrowly. we have much a larger systemic issue in this country and police something a mere system of this greater illness. and the illness we're struggling with as a nation is at complete disregard for black people and brown people's humanity. we have an unfulfilled promise to black people, which is that they're entitled to the equal protection of the laws. i'm speaking about the 14th amendment. to this date in 2020, we're

having quibbles over what sort of legislation to pass. and the fact that we have to argue legislation that would make black lives matter that's an issue that needs to be addressed on a much larger scale. i want to credit colorado for taking these important steps. >> partly what you wrote about how the president is offering us bread crumbs with this executive order that he signed on policing this week. what do you mean by that? >> sure. bread crumbs, it was mere lip service. so what showed us in this executive order on tuesday is that he does not actually intend to address this larger issue. this photo-op on the rose garden, you did not see victims, family members that have lost their loved ones to police violence. we know historically that if trump wants to be definitive with an executive order, he is. he leaves no ambiguity, banning

muslims from coming in this country. he leaves no question on executive orders about immigration. and this executive order, the bread crumbs i referred to was just mere encouragement of how police departments sh respond to the violence going on. that executive order started with the framing that we had some instances of misconduct, especially in african-american communities. that's his one mention of race in this order. activists on the ground, not just in this country and around the world, much large r order. >> could that have prevented the death of george floyd? >> i don't. i think, to alexis' point, we have a more core problem with policing in general. we have a mechanism for public safety that doesn't allow us to

guarantee that we can get everybody home safely at the end of the day. and we put a lot of emphasis on fatal encounters, but here in minneapolis, and i know elsewhere, we have a whole lot of abuses that happen from our police department that falwell short of fatal encounters, and they still harm our communities and tha disrupt that trust. i don't think it goes far enough. >> jeremiah, since you are a council member in minneapolis who voted to disban the police department, tell us about your plan, how it might work and what kind of reaction you've received. >> so, you know, locally, we received, actually, a good reaction. obviously, it makes people what else public safety can look like. for so long in minneapolis, police have had a monopoly on safety. our manualations imaginations a

restrictive on what else could it look like. we have a gang violence intervention program that's extremely successful in transitioning folks out of that lifestyle more so than just this punitive system but we don't fund that program in any kind of full, robust way. we have a mental health response team, but again it's kind of this little niche, cutesy little thing but we don't treat it like a full-fledged program. we want to go bigger than that, expand beyond just those two programs, obviously. but i think that's going to take a lot of engagement with the community. again replacing it will take some time. >> jeremiah ellison, alexis, thank you so much. a new book on the first lady, the author joins me next. t i don't keep track of regrets and i don't add up the years,

but what i do count on... is boost high protein... and now, there's boost mobility... ...with key nutrients to help support... joints, muscles, and bones. try boost mobility, with added collagen. introducing tide power pods with cat & nat. that is such a large load, don't the stains sneak through? new tide power pods can clean that... whole situation. it's like two regular tide pods and then even more power. even the largest of loads get clean. it's got to be tide. hold on one second... sure.

okay... okay! safe drivers save 40%!!! guys! guys! check it out. safe drivers save 40%!!! safe drivers save 40%! safe drivers save 40%!!! that's safe drivers save 40%. it is, that's safe drivers save 40%. - he's right there. - it's him! he's here. he's right here. - hi! - hi. hey! - that's totally him. - it's him! that's totally the guy. safe drivers do save 40%. click or call for a quote today. 'remember when any footlong was five dollars?' hit it, charlie. ♪ oh, you're five, ♪ five. ♪ five-dollar, ♪ five dollar ♪ five-dollar footlong. ♪ it's freshly made ♪ with veggies. ♪ it's back. five-dollar footlongs are back when you buy two. for a limited time.

we're keeping a very close eye on things in tulsa, oklahoma. you've seen thousands attend to gather for the trump rally for the 2020 campaign season. it will start at 8:00 p.m. eastern time, 7:00 local time in tulsa. people are being given face masks, hand sanitizer and reportedly will have their temperatures checked before entering that arena, holding 19,000 strong. a lot of drama 40 minutes ago. we'll bring you segments of that again at the top of the hour and show you exactly what happened as a protester was arrested right outside that area where people are walking right now. let's go to a new book which paints a unique picture. first lady at times in the shadows and at odds with some of the family, but ambitious and committed to winning a second term for her husband. joining me now, mary jordan, national political correspondent of "the washington post" and author of the book "her deal:

the untold story of melania trump." very clever, i might add. thank you for joining me. >> good to see you. >> one of the most startling rell invasions was to renegotiate her prenup after she originally said it was just to let baron finish the school year in new york. what does this tell you between the president and the first lady, that she took the time to renegotiate her prenup? >> it says she's pretty smart. she wanted to go in at the right time. that's the time she had maximum power and leverage. as donald trump brags he's the master deal maker and he wrote, in his book "the art of the deal" that you need something the other person wants to get a good deal. and she -- he really wanted her at his side. remember, that was a very difficult period in the first days of the administration, all

those allegations about his sexual -- his affairs, stormy daniels came out, karen mcdougal. the famous hand swat. she was putting pressure on him. and the sources that i have said she got a good deal. >> a source told you trump was, quote, frightened to see her after the release of the access hollywood tape. when they spoke she said now you could lose, you could have blown this for us and many have credited her with putting that campaign back on track after the controversial tape. do you think that her presence there, her endorsing him, whether silent ly or speaking about it, did that really do enough to turn things around? >> remember how close that race was with hillary clinton? >> yeah. >> when the "access hollywood" tape came out and all those vulgar, crude things he said, if she walked, that was one month before the november 2016 election. and that's why, not just donald

trump, but the whole campaign, all eyes were on melania. we need her. we need her to get on tv and say she backs him. and she did. she said this is boys talk. i mean, she even went to pennsylvania, a state that they won by a hair. >> yeah. it actually reminds me of what maria shriver did on the 2003 gubernatorial campaign. he won, she was beside her ex-husband at the time. there you have it. you point out something that is very real and proven to be successful, as it was in both of these cases. but you talk about the tension in the relationship between the first lady and her stepdaughter, ivanka. melania reportedly calling ivanka the princess while ivanka would call the first lady the portrait, because she spoke about as much as a painting on the wall. and she wanted to change the first lady's office to the first

family's office and melania would have none of that. how does she get along with her stepchildren? >> pretty much avoid each other. there's not a lot of cuddleness there. the front three are front and center all the time, ivanka, donald jr. and eric. she wanted a better prenup, signed that in 2005 when they got married. she said was because she wanted baron, her child, to have an equal stake in the inheritance to the older three. she just wanted him to be, you know, considered a real trump. >> do you get a sense that there is -- between them, the president and the first lady, a relationship that is warm, that is filled with love? i mean, is it an ideal relationship like that? >> no. i mean, love can be complicated

for everybody. trump love is super complicated. i've talked to people that have seen them firsthand, gone to dinner with them, worked for them. even housekeepers that have seen them over the years. and the striking thing is that they both say two things. one, that there is a connection and he relies on her. he loves her cool. she admires his connection with people. but they spend a shocking amount of time by themselves. they have separate bedrooms, separate quarters. he golfs. she's never there. they just live separate lives. and yet they do have a connection. it's gone up and down, and it wasn't very good at all during the allegations about stormy daniels and karen mcdougal that's for sure. >> one can imagine on that front. well, mary jordan, "art of her deal," i have it here. it is a page turn er, i might add. best of luck with the book.

>> thank you, alex. indoor rally with no masks required, the new concerns of the president's event as cases spike in oklahoma. ent as cases spike in oklahoma. stoppin' beli♪ ♪go straight till the morning look like we♪ ♪won't wait,♪ ♪we're taking everything we wanted♪ ♪we can do it ♪all strength, no sweat thats where i feel normal.s an hour, having an annuity tells me my retirement is protected. protected lifetime income from an annuity can help your retirement plan ride out turbulent times. learn more at protectedincome.org.

at t-mobile, you don't have to choose between a great network and the best prices. we give you both. switch your family from at&t or verizon to t-mobile and you will save up to 50% off your current service and smart phones.... 50% with three or more lines of essentials with unlimited talk, text and data. all on a network built with our best signals for coverage. and keep your current phones. we'll pay them off up to $450 bucks each. now get an amazing network for an amazing price. only at t-mobile.

good day, everyone. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." we'll bring you up-to-date right now. drama in tulsa. you saw this live here on msnbc in my last hour. a woman protesting, standing her

ground, sitting her ground, if you will, appeared to be engaged in a peaceful protest in tulsa, oklahoma, that begins some seven hours from now. in a matter of minutes, she was apprehended by police officers. she was taken into custody as they walked her to a police accrueder two blocks away. she was arrested. morgan chessky was there for us. here is his exchange with that protester. >> ma'am, if you can hear me, can you tell me what officers told you that you did wrong? >> i was trespassing and breaking the law. and they're arresting me. i've never been arrested before in my life. >> reporter: so they told you that you were trespassing and breaking the law? >> yes. >> reporter: the woman just said she was trespassing because she had an "i can't breathe" shirt on. she said that was the main reason she came out here today. >> that protester identified herself as sheila buck, an american citizen from oklahoma. of course, days ago, the

president warned protesters in this tweet that they would not be treated the way protesters have been treated in other states. a lot to get to this hour. we'll do it with help from our team of reporters. we'll do it with the help of what was the take away for you? >> reporter: alex, the takeaway appears to be this is treated very much as a private event. sheila buck was initially allowed inside that gate, as crowds are filing in toward that rally. as she entered through the gates, she was told to step to the side and she was singled out, at which point informed that due to her t-shirt saying "i can't breathe" she would not be allowed in the rally tonight, despite buck telling me she did have one of those tickets. even having a ticket, she was

informed, doesn't guarantee entrance into tonight's rally, that it can be revoked at any time. it was at that point that she decided to sit down in what appeared to be a very peaceful protest there. just inside that initial security gate. and that's when we watched tulsa police approach her, start that dialogue with her i heard officers say at this point she was trespassing a private event and had to be removed from that specific area and so that's when we saw that kind of raw moment play out where she made the choice to stay seated and they said you can come with us or we can forcefully bring you with us, and that's what we watched play out, alex. >> morgan, i have to ask you, do you know whether or not she was wearing this all black attire with the "i can't breathe" t-shirt as she was, you know, waiting to go into that area close to the official access to the event?

because the scene that you have shown us, morgan, it has been nothing but a sea of red-color ed attired people. and they've been sitting there by the hundreds outside of this arena for days. you have to wonder if she was wearing that as she was making her way through the crowd to that point where your cameras picked up the action. do you know if she was dressed that way for a long time? >> i didn't have a chance to see if miss buck had been waiting here or simply arrived here today. she didn't tell me. as she was getting inside that police cruiser she was a resident right here in tulsa, saying she had never been arrested before. of course, when i asked her, why are you here, she said this. she pointed to her t-shirt, i can't breathe. lead meeg to believe in the moment that's the statement she was trying to make. upon initially getting inside, that was the reason she was pulled aside and started that situation we saw play out. >> so, speaking of all those

people, a lot of people behind you waiting to get in, looks like vendors taking advantage of the literally thousands that are in that area. what's the mod like for those folks, some seven hours or so now before this rally begins? >> definitely under way here, alex. people here know there's an outdoor kind of entertainment area, several blocks from us right now close to the bok arena. this has been the unofficial waiting area of sorts. blocked-off street. people have set up merchandise here. you can see tables full of the traditional make america great again t-shirts, hats, pins. right now, alex, people are kind of hanging out here, because they can kind of come and go as they wish, at least from this area. we do know that security, obviously, is being enforced in a big way. bag checks are happening once they leave this area and go inside that initial gate. temperature checks are also

happening, and masks being handed out as we saw earlier, but not required wear inside the rally tonight or in the outside area. alex? >> morgan chesky, personal thanks to you and your crew for being right where you need to be one hour ago to catch that dramatic incident. reverend mario johnson, founder of the tulsa chapter of black lives matter. when you listen to the report of what happened to that protester, sheila buck, it would seem that she had a ticket. she had every right, every reason in her mind to be there. and yet she was not allowed to freely express a dissenting opinion and enter anywhere close to that arena tonight. what does that tell you? >> that just tells me that there is a lot at stake here today. people are very cautious. everyone is. i mean, they have a lot of out-of-town people.

people don't know what's next. there are some concerns of violence and things like that. so when i look at that, i look at it as, you know, people are overprotective today because of everything that's at stake. the national guard, of course, has been deployed. security is tight. it's going to be throughout the day. >> one thing we know, reverend, that's coming next are the counterprotests you're leading at 5:00 tulsa time. what is the reaction of the president coming to tulsa one day after juneteenth, do you expect there to be clashes with trump supporters? >> well, i really don't expect that. obviously one of my expectations is for people not to be where mr. trump will be holding his

rally but instead as an alternative to join our protest to where it's us being in our own environment, creating our own space, doing our own thing because of potential alter indications that can come in to from youition, can manifest at that moment. so i'm a little concerned about people ma may want to counter protest where mr. trump is holding his campaign rally. >> what about the governor there in oklahoma, saying that he is going to bring the vice president to meet with black leaders some time today in tulsa, is that any type of an olive branch for you that you would like to see from the administration, or do you have any concerns it might inflame tensions? how are you perceiving this? >> well, when i first heard about that, i believe that

something positive can come out of that. that's what i see. i see that connection there as a possibility, you know, some positive things, positive conversation, positive outcome that will be the result of that meeting. >> that would be great. and we hope that, indeed, is the case. what about, sir, the history of the 1921 tulsa massacre, which is seemingly buried, at least to some degree, in history books. what do you think about this attack that some say was the largest evidence of racial bias in this country and killed up wards of 300 people has not been more prominently discussed? >> one of the reasons is because society didn't want that to be known nationally or worldwide because then people's eyes would

be on tulsa and ask questions of how something so drastic can be done to a community and to a people. so i would say one reason of that not being put out there for people to be aware of greenwood is because that doesn't look good at all. so there's some guilt, some shame that comes with that. but today what we know is we cannot change the past, but what we can do is we can come together, reconcile, true reconciliation, and then we can help navigate the course of our future and the present by working together. and say things were wrong, we're not here to beat you across the head. we want you to be able to acknowledge and truly understand, and that way we can

move forward to true reconciliation, because true reconciliation is when positive results come as far as everyone being treated equal. and then the nation of america being strong, because the house that's divided cannot stand. >> reverend mario johnson, best of luck, sir. we hope everything goes well for you this afternoon in the protests you're leading there on behalf of tulsa black lives matter. thank you for your time. let's go from there to washington, d.c., where protesters are taking to the street for the fourth weekend in a row, this time in celebration of juneteenth and to bring attention to the racial injustices in this country. amanda is following this for us in d.c. welcome to you. what's it been like there along the march? tell me where you are. >> reporter: hey, alex, we're here at mt. vernon square, the starting point where the black onyx movement peaceful protest will start today. they're starting to gather behind me as you can see, hearing from speakers, a few

artists central to d.c. they'll make their way over to black lives matter plaza in front of the white house and continue on over there to the freedom plaza, all the while marching peacefully, continuing to hear from activists, poets, artists and musicians, as they continue to celebrate juneteenth, also drawing attention to systemic racism we've seen persist throughout the country. this group is founded by some young black women who just started this black onyx movement and have been telling me from this morning that they're not interested in performance activism. they're not looking to just have people come out for these protests or rallies, but continue on and create systemic change to dismantle continuing oppression. i spoke to leaders of the movement, they spoke exactly to that. take a listen to what you told me. >> we want to celebrate juneteenth but we also want to make sure that our voices are heard and we are constantly continuing the conversation. >> our slogan literally means

long live black. so we are just constantly building different stepping stones to helping move forward. >> reporter: as you heard from udoka and giovanni, they want to see the lasting change and are hoping that even if some were deterned by the rain and the weather today will continue to be part of that movement in moving forward. we'll be following along with these guys as they continue on throughout the afternoon. >> amanda goldwyn in d.c., appreciate it. protesters are gathering for a juneteenth rally in richmond, virginia, as a debate wages on the removal of a robert e. lee statue in the state's capital. at virginia university, deepa, talk to us about what's happening on the ground and the tenor of things. >> reporter: hey, alex.

it's going to be different here in richmond than what we've seen the past couple of weeks. protests are reaching a one-month mark. here at the juneteenth, they're hoping this is the next step, just as amanda was talking about. protesters, organizeorganizers, activists are coming here on how do we create systemic change, fight systemic racism? justin fairfax are coming to speak along with organizers of today's event. mr. fred scott, listen to what he told me about the importance of today and why it's so different. >> today we will all be in a peaceful environment to listen to our political leaders speak to the plan, to talk about future steps and how they're going to support our people. once we get past all of our

protests, we want to put in systemic change that's going to happen in those areas. >> reporter: so you heard him, alex, say the word plan. the center point of all those events today, the intent to focus on plans within police reform but also educational reform, talking about economic reforms, to make sure that black americans can achieve justice. that's the conversation we're focusing on today. events will be starting within an hour behind me. as things pick up, we'll keep you posted. >> real quick the robert e. lee statue, the debate over removing that, what's the latest on it? >> reporter: alex, you and i spoke about this a couple of weeks ago. >> we did. >> reporter: when that was starting to heat up. governor northam said he was intending on removing that huge robert e. loom statue that looms over the whole city. you saw some of those pictures we've been talking about the past couple of weeks. it's gotten a little more

complicated. there's a judge who issued an injunction, which means things have gotten tricky. state leaders here in virginia are intent in not only removing that statue of robert e. lee but the other confederate monuments along monument avenue. >> clearly there's more to this story. we'll count on you to bring it to us again. three words the vice president can't bring himself to say and his response of why it's so difficult for him. f why it's so difficult for him. some people say "dress your age."

that's ridiculous.

age is just an illusion. how you show up for the world, that's what's real. what's your idea? i put it out there with a godaddy website. >> breaking news to share. a judge has ruled that john bolton can release his tell-all book despite last-minute efforts of the trump administration to block that book over concerns it contains classified information. josh lederman is following this from the white house. he has that and more. another welcome to you. john bolton's attorney just released a statement. can you tell us what he's saying? >> we're getting new reaction from john bolton's attorney,

saying we welcome today's decision by the court, denying the government's attempt to suppress ambassador bolton's book. we're also hearing from the publisher of that book, they are also praising the decision and saying they are glad that the american people will get to see this book written by president trump's former national security adviser. but make no mistake about it, alex. the judge here did not give any kind of clean bill of health to john bolton for his conduct. quite to the contrary, the judge said while an injunction wouldn't really accomplish anything because the cat's out of the bag, so to speak, that what john bolton did here was clearly the wrong decision. the judge lambasting john bolton saying there was probably classified information as a result of this book now coming to light. president trump has been seizing on here at the white house as he casts this court decision as a big court win from him, as the

president's lawyers push ahead with their strategy saying even if the book is going to come out and this information is going to be in public light, at least they can potentially deny john bolton from earning a single penny from it. the government's lawyers pushing ahead with their broader suit to try to forfeit any procedued proceeds from that book. >> can i ask you about the showdown from the doj and u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, who have investigated his closest allies, including rudy giuliani? what's this th about? >> reporter: we have a statement from attorney general barr saying the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york has stepped down. then we have a statement from that u.s. attorney saying that's not true. i did not step down and will not step down. how this is going to be resolved and what was so urgent that the administration felt they needed

to get him out of the way, even without a senate confirmed replacement waiting to take over is still unclear. but we know lawmakers are very concerned about this. if you want to know where u.s. attorney berman stands on this, he was actually spotted showing up to work this morning anyway, despite the fact that the administration said he was gone last night. he told reporters, as he walked into his new york office today, that he was there to do his job. >> okay. josh lederman, bringing us the latest on several fronts. thank you for that. tiffany cross, institute of politics harvard kennedy school and author of the upcoming back "say it louder: black narratives, white voters and saving our democracy." also jonathan lemier, writer with the associated press. good to see you both of you here. what does this picture do to paint the picture of bill barr? is he doing the president's bidding? >> yes, absolutely. definitely.

i don't know if that's up for debate at this point, alex. we're seeing this political intervention by trump's attorney general who views his job to protect the president and not uphold the law. let's be clear, berman is not a progressive attorney. he was a trump donor. he was investigating rudy jowliany's attempts to investigate trump's opponents in ukraine. and even more to the point, alex, he can't be replaced because there is no acting. and we know that trump favors these acting positions. he was appointed by a federal court in new york. so, because there's no person in place, donald trump is very hesitant to have a senate confirmation for these positions, because he could have this high turnover, because he thinks that's the way it functions. that's his first job in the u.s. government, as president of the united states, he's pushing

limits of the law. we've had a long history of seeing bill barr's record as somebody who is a trump accolyte and not a true attorney general. we saw this during his confirmation hearing when kamala harris did that brilliant questioning of him of how he sees his role. he has shown the american people who he is. the only thing is how american people continue to feign surprise time and again after we've already seen how this attorney general is not really an advocate of law enforcement on any level. >> i'm curious, jonathan, what you make of all of this. "the new york times" reports that this move comes after john bolton's book, that in the state-owned turkish bank in an effort to cut deals with the turkish president.

do you think there could be a connection here with the timing? >> alex, anything is possible. sdny has a number -- that's the jurisdiction that would have investigations into things like the trump organization, new york's banks, like that one. deutsche bank, which, of course, has been the largest loaner to president trump as a private -- when he was still a private citizen and to his organization. michael cohen, of course, was part of the southern district of new york. that was an investigation there. we know there's been an investigation. we don't know the status of it, into rudy giuliani, the president's personal attorney, who played such a key role in combating both the russia investigation and then creating and trying to combat the matter with ukraine that led eventually to the president's impeachment here. the timing comes late on a friday night. mr. berman made very clear he was not resigning. this was not his choice, despite how it was framed initially by the department of justice. as indicated, he showed up for work today. also lindsey graham who, of

course, is a staunch ally of the president in the senate made clear that in terms of berman's successor, mr. carson, head of the s.e.c. at the moment that, he would go through normal channels, including the blue slip process, which means democrats would get a say. that's being interpreted as a mild rebuke to the white house of how this firing went down. >> interesting. i hadn't heard of that lynndie graham approach. interesting. let's turn to the trump campaign rally taking place across the street from one of the worst black massacres in u.s. history. juneteenth, it was originally scheduled for. got pushed back a day after widespread condemnation. do you feel okay, we're not going to do this on juneteenth, or do people still find this insulting? >> i think president trump's

entire presidency is insulting to black people and people who uphold this country and democracy. him moving it by a day doesn't change the actual policies that he institute d of white supremay that continue to oppress and suppress black voters. when he sends these signals, it tonight do us any good to debate what it is, but to actually call it out and acknowledge that this is something that is intended to destroy the pillars of democracy, not in any way uphold what so many -- what black patriotism looks like in this country. there was a situation where mike pence wouldn't say black lives matter. that's so incredibly irrelevant that he was even asked. when i hear people ask the question, is there systemic racism in the country? and the question itself is

somewhat reminiscent of insult. that question has been asked and answered. that's like alex, do you think lemons are yellow? we know the answer. let's skip over that and get to the issues that could impact people. sometimes the questions seem more formative than informative. i hope the american people take this for what it is. look at the crowd. this is an overwhelming white crowd. there was a gentleman in line practicing -- something reminiscent of a slave whip he was cracking. you could hear some of the comments from the people in the crowd. we don't need to ask what these people represent, what him doing this in tulsa -- they are so wedded to their white supremacy they'll cut their nose off to despite to spite their face, and celebrate bigotry. i hope it energizes the people who are disproportionately harmed by this administration by filling out those mail-in boxes

and make their way to the ballot box even in the midst of covid-19, foreign election interference as specifically targets communities of color. >> tiffany, i'm going to play the vice president's sound bite you were referring to in a moment. i want to ask jonathan about the level of potential irresponsibility. i mean, we have to wait and see what happens. this entire rally, jonathan, is happening in the prism of this pandemic. two weeks from now, if there are people, an increase in the number of covid victims, people coming down sick with the illness two weeks from now, after being exposed at this rally, is it somewhat reckless to be holding this at an indoor rally right now, here, and not requiring at all for people to wear masks? they say, yes, we're giving them out. but you don't have to wear them. >> there's grave concern among public health officials, including those in tulsa, about the nature of this rally. that it's happening at all, but particularly indoors. the campaign is handing out

masks. we do not anticipate social distancing being enforced. of course, we haven't seen the inside of the arena. no one has been allowed inside just yet. others, including the press secretary, has said they're not going to wear a mask. the president himself, of course, has said he won't wear a mask. he has been yet to be photographed in public willingly. coronavirus cases have surged in a number of cases across this country, including oklahoma, including in the tulsa region. and people are going to be packed in there. as the president sort of made masks almost a cultural issue, a wedge issue acres lot of supporters will be reluctant to wear them. i'm sure some will. most won't. we look at the footage of people standing outside in line and very few are wearing masks. >> yeah. >> this is great concern. this could be called a super spreader event. there's indoors, air conditioning could circulate the particles, shouting, yelling and screaming. that also circulates virus particles, according to health

officials. there's real concern that if you have an event here in tulsa, and many people who have driven in, but states could come in, ininfect ininfected, carry the virus back to their homes in other states. many suspect that president trump is in denial. >> let's play that which tiffany was referencing, the interview that president mike pence did with his philadelphia station about black lives matter. here it is. >> i wonder, sir, if those are words you'll utter right here, right here today. black lives matter. can you say those words? >> well, brian, let me say that what happened to george floyd was a tragedy, and in this nation, especially on juneteenth, we celebrate the fact that from the founding of this nation, we cherished the ideal that all, all of us are created equal. >> so why will you not say those

words? >> i don't accept the fact, brian, that there's a segment of american society that disagrees in the preciousness and importance of every human life. >> you know, i'm just curious, tiffany, your thoughts on that. why he can't say those words. why he could not have answered that question by saying, yes, black lives matter and then go on to say what happened to george floyd and continue then? what's behind that? >> you know, i honestly don't. he stands with a bigot, has apologized for this president time and again. it's taken seven years to the point where uttering black lives matter wasn't a controversial statement. this is a long journey. i don't think anyone who is part of this movement or supports this movement for black people who have had to defend and define their humanity in this country since 1619 is looking for mike pence's approval.

alex, it is incredibly disrespectful that he would show up in this space and then pretend to meet with whatever black leaders that he's meeting with in greenwood, which i question who those people are. i think every time that they have extended this performative olive branch to the black community it's been nothing but a modern day show of people who are not black leaders but who the maga cult feels comfortable with. it's such a disrespect when we see black bodies falling in the street. and we've seen black blood spilled in this country just to have the needle move a little bit. now here we are, 100 years later after white, violent provacateurs devastated an economical economically impactful environment and they cannot utter the words in this space black lives matter? we cannot drain any more water from this pool. every time we see a new low

somehow they manage to get lower. it's a waste of time to focus on them. instead, i'm monitoring, what policies are they putting out there? let me look at this executive order, this bill that tim scott put out. what are the tangible things they are offering up to this country that will impact black communities or will have an adverse effect on black communities? this administration has done everything from trying to give a wink and a nod to something i write about in my book. i'm not moved in either way by what mike pence's opinion is on anything. >> always good to talk with you both. thank you, guys. the governor of oklahoma wanted the president to pay a visit to one part of town. leader there is would have none of that. we'll take you there next. e of that. we'll take you there next.

>> back now with a live look at tulsa, oklahoma. in a matter of hours, the president will be holding his first campaign rally, since the

start of the coronavirus pandemic. people have been camped out four days. that rally was originally scheduled for last night but was eventually moved after being criticized for being held on juneteenth. across the venue, greenwood district in tulsa. nbc's priscilla thompson is there, along what was known as black wall street. priscilla, again, a welcome to you. we heard from trump supporters. his visit is also being met with a lot of criticism. what are folks there telling you? >> reporter: alex, we've heard spokes speak about a number of issues from the location and the timing of the event to the safety measures that will be in place. and it's no question that people are feeling some very strong emotions about this. i'm actually here with guy and yvette, owners of black wall street liquid lounge in this area. the president was originally going to hold this rally on

juneteenth. he moved it to saturday. what are your feelings about that, the rally today? >> i think it's insensitive. it's disrespectful and very intentional to have the rally here during juneteenth weekend, 2 1/2 weeks after the greenwood massacre. >> and on the heels of the juneteenth celebration. moving it a day is still really very intentional. and i think the emotion behind this massacre and that rally needs to be addressed in a high-level conversation in this nation. >> reporter: and i understand neither of you will be attending the rally. i'm curious, if you had an opportunity to give the president and his administration a message, what would your message to them be? >> look at your blind spots. atone and apologize for the atrocities to the people of color and do not excite your base so much where it's

divisive, where we should be having a universal conversation about the state of this country and that takes all of us, all thoughts, all minds, but we're being divided. >> reporter: and the other thing to remember here is that we are -- there is still a pandemic going on. i know there was a juneteenth celebration here yesterday. it was outdoors. i saw a lot of folks wearing masks. we know the rally today will be indoors, likely not a lot of folks wearing masks. i'm curious, are you concerned about the health impacts, particularly given we've seen this virus has disproportionately impacted communities of color in certain places? >> without a doubt. we know for certain brown and black people in this country are dying at a higher rate. we're hoping that the nation will take heed to that and have the sensitivity to help us deal with the health disparities and economic disparities that are tied to it. what happened here 99 years ago still hasn't been atoned for. and what we need is a

conversation that's going to help in our sustainability as a people. >> reporter: thank you so much. and, alex, that's really the mood on the ground here in greenwood. back to you. >> all right. priscilla thompson, thank you so much. thanks to your guests. let's go now to the latest on the coronavirus pandemic. the outbreak is rapidly accelerating. w.h.o. recorded a daily high of 150,000 new cases worldwide. here in the u.s., 14 states are seeing a decline in cases, but 21 states are seeing an uptick. arizona, texas, florida all set a record for daily cases, each adding more than 3,000 cases on friday. major league baseball has closed all spring training facilities in arizona and florida for cleaning after at least five players have testified for the virus and cruise lines will not be sailing in or out of u.s. ports until at least september

15th, when the ban is lifted. let's be joined by msnbc medical contributor dr. patel and dr. natalie azar, also an nbc contributor. dr. azar, to you first here, the supreme court denying the request that would have required everybody attending that rally tonight, what, six, seven hours from now, to wear masks. there are health experts that worry this rally could turn into some super spreader event. how about you? what's your reaction to that? how much higher is the spread of the virus potential if very few people are wearing a mask indoors? >> yeah. honestly, jonathan lemier highlighted the issues quite well and reiterated what we've been saying for some time. what gives public health care experts and frankly all health care professionals sleepness nights are exactly these type of events held indoors where people will maintain social distancing,

the yelling and all of that. the mask issue is particularly pertine pertinent. we talked about a study that looked at the way that the virus is transmitted and how mask wearing mitigates transmission. another study recently showed if even 50% of people wore masks, the basic reproduction number, the are not, would be less than one. what's that mean, alex? for every single person who is infected, less than one other person will be infected. 50% of people wearing masks, that's all it would take. that's how epidemics end. >> so good point. and i agree, we've heard that before. florida is also seeing a spike. it's setting another record for the most daily cases today, more than 4,000 new cases, dr. patel. do you think florida opened too soon? do you think it could be a new epicenter? >> it absolutely could be. and, remember, it's not probably just the reopening. that, in fact, is true, alex,

but it's also the fact that all other states, whereas before we had pretty much a national stay-at-home, restricted travel, now you're seeing packed planes, cars, influx -- people going in and out of the state from the eastern coast and other parts into florida, and the fact that you've got -- you even have the governor, who basically is kind of downplaying this and saying these are cases because of, quote, more testing, when the statistics tell us, no, this is actually what you point out potentially a new epicenter, increased proportion of cases and again it creates a tinder box effect with the public convention being moved to jacksonville, florida, in a short amount of time. >> very much so. >> to both of you very quickly, is the genie out of the bottle when it comes to people saying okay, we're willing to stay home, self quarantine? dr. azar, you first. you know human nature. have people had enough?

>> they do have enough, alex. i think we know this, until or unless we have an effective vaccine that enough people are going to get, and until we get to maybe about 20% of infection in our country, we're only at 1% right now. unfortunately, we're going to have to learn how to live with this virus. this virus has learned to live with us. i get the social distancing fatigue. i'm experiencing it also. the way to do this, the only way to do this is by wearing masks and maintaining soshl distancing as much as we can and really, really trying to deploy the testing and tracing that was so inadequate at the beginning of this pandemic. >> dr. patel, quickly, i'm sure you concur? >> not only do icon occur, i'll reinforce, there's a way to overcome this fatigue we're all feeling, and that's by having clear messages and supporting our shawl businesses, schools, daycare centers, to facilitate, feel confident that we can go

out and not get infected and that will help us get through this next year and new normal. >> so will the both of you. dr. kavita patel, dr. natalie azar. a fourth of july celebration has come early this year. more than 1700 fireworks complaints so far this month, 80 times more than it saw last year. cor corey kaufman is joining me from new york. what are you hearing about these complaints? >> reporter: yeah. celebration for some, but terror for others. these complaints are coming across major cities, new york, new jersey, philly, chicago. they're happening at all hours of the night, alex. they've basically been happening daily. the main problem, though, isn't just that they're being shot off into the sky but people are being seen shooting each other with them. take a look at this video.

>> reporter: we've seen multiple videos like this. there's also philly and boston in which people are saying they are protesting using these fireworks, alex. those complaints are bringing out more police with the potential of more violent police clashes. fireworks show set to go off two weeks legally in new york for the fourth of july. until then, we'll see if they continue to go off illegally. >> what you just showed us, that's just crazy. cori could haffin, thank you so the president cannot help but comment on a return of colin kaepernick returning to the nfl. kaepernick returning to the nfl. as a struggling actor,

i need all the breaks that i can get. at liberty butchumal- cut. liberty biberty- cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ - oh.- oh, darn! - wha- let me help. here we go. lift and push and push! there... it's up there. oh, boy. hey joshie... wrinkles send the wrong message. help prevent them before they start with downy wrinkleguard. hey! bud. hey, pop pop! so you won't get caught with wrinkles again.

[woman laughs] no uh uh, no way come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card. more than three years after colin kaepernick began neiling

to protest police brutality, now the president says he would support the former quarterback's return to the nfl. >> when it comes to sports and neiling, do you think colin kaepernick should get another shot in the nfl? >> if he has the playing ability. he should. he ended up not great in terms of a player. he was good in his rookie year, not and his second year, then something happened and his playing was not up to snuff. i would love. as far as kneeling, i would love to see him get another shot. if he can't play well, i think it would be very foolish. >> the author of "under our skin: getting real about race" of the benjamin, thank you for being here. i want your reaction to what the president said there. do you think it's too little, too late for the trump -- rather the president to say kaepernick deserves another chance after the way he went after him three

years ago? >> i think people have the opportunity to have a change of heart. that's at the core of not only who we are as americans but as believers and as people who want to see people progress. i find it ironic if not disingenuous that the president would say that, considering in 2016, or 2017 is when he made the comment that someone who takes a knee and others like him, called them s.o.b.s and said they should be fired on the spot. >> right. right. >> i find it hard to hear that from him. although i agree colin and any other player, no matter what they do, as long as it's peaceful, should have the right to earn an occupation in football. >> despite the commissioner's apologies to players where he did not mention kaepernick's name, does the nfl owe him something? >> the nfl owes an acknowledgement specifically of his specific situation. look, what happened with him was

an obvious black ball and many times owners, other people may not admit that. those in the inner circle -- you're starting to hear that from commissioner goodell and other nfl brass. they've come out and apologized, talked about it. to specifically speak to him or publicly acknowledge what happened with his situation, i think it's very important because it allows the public, really, and also players in locker rooms to see the contrition, the change of heart that's happened when it comes to protesting in the nfl. >> yeah. you know, benjamin, to that point, the nfl has come out in support of black lives matter. do you think we'll see kneeling every game and do you think it will gain more support from fans rather than lose it, as the president has suggested? >> it remains to be seen. it remains to be seen if we even have a season as we know it. >> that's true. >> exactly.

there were a couple of players kneeling and the president made his comments that there were mass amounts of players kneeling. there's more than one way to protest. that may be one way for players to protest right now. others have written books, othersop-ed, others have marched and tried to draft policy and support and be advocates. four things that will change the systemic disparity that is we see and so while the kneeling is one part, i think that there is a whole smorgasbord of ways for not only players but people who are watching to get involved. i do, however, think there has been a softening and ang understanding from fans and from the larger community when it comes to the listening that has happened about the reasons why not only players but all americans care about these issues. >> can i ask you what the statue of former washington redskins owner george preston marshall has been taken down outside rfk stadium after it was vandalized

and pressure for the redskins to change its name. what do you think about this, benjamin? is this movement the right time for the redskins as well as any other controversial team names and logos to change? >> well, i think there's a marked difference between an organization or a privately held organization, something like the redskins and maybe a public high school or public university when it comes to the name. i don't agree with the name the redskins. i've said that plenty of times but do however believe we cannot force someone to change the name of their company. we can, however, put pressure on them to do so and that's what i believe you're seeing. that's what i believe you're seeing as kind of a sea change in how we approach these things. we need to be more sensitive and understand the history of some of these names but most importantly we need to see that, you know when, it comes to tearing down and vandalizing things i'm never a fan of that. i never will support that. but i do think that especially during this time there is an

awakening and an understanding, look, we're not erasing history. history cannot be erased. what we are understand something how it is told an how we honor those has to change. we need to do it in the full spectrum of what really happened and who these men and women were. >> thoughtful conversation, thank you so much for joining me. i appreciate it. answering the call for police reform, have lawmakers drawn up plans that will work? s. and right now, love is more important than ever. in response to covid-19, subaru and our retailers are donating fifty million meals to feeding america, to help feed those who now need our help. its all part of our commitment to our communities through subaru loves to help. love, it's what makes subaru, subaru. introducing tide power pods with cat & nat. that is such a large load, don't the stains sneak through?

new tide power pods can clean that... whole situation. it's like two regular tide pods and then even more power. even the largest of loads get clean. it's got to be tide. there he is. oh, wow. you're doing, uh, you're doing really great with the twirling. dad, if you want to talk, i have a break at 3:00. okay, okay. i'm going. i'm gone. like -- like i wasn't here. [ horn honks ] keep -- keep doing it, buddy. switch to progressive and you can save hundreds. you know, like the sign says. feel cool. because the tempur-breeze transfers heat... away from your body. so you feel cool... night after night. during the tempur-pedic summer of sleep, experience the mattress ranked number one in customer satisfaction by jd power.

in a big win for activists calling for police reform colorado has passed a sweeping bill that will end qualified impupts for police officers, ban chokeholes and require members of the department to report other officers for wrongdoing. joining me now is former denver police chief robert white. chief white, so glad to have you here. i know, sir, you were brought in as a police chief specifically with plans to reform the department. what do you think of these changes that are coming to all of colorado's police departments

and what were some of the effective changes you, sir, made? >> well, i think most of the changes are great. i would also tell you that most of those changes were implemented by our police department prior to getting to this point and certainly prior to some of the incidents involving individuals that involved loss of life. one thing that has become abundantly clear that if you're going to change culture, sui what a lot of people are asking to be done, you're going to have to change what you value so our whole approach started with understanding that our culture needed to be changed and also understanding that the expectations that the community had versus what the police officers thought their responsibilities were was different. our agency done a phenomenon knoll job on training on policy, procedures and a lot of citizens obviously in addition to questioning that also question the necessity.

just because an officer might take a legal action there are a lot of thoughts in the mines of a lot of citizens, even police officers were those actions necessary so we're trying to raise the bar. we've raised the bar on policing. just because it's legal doesn't make it necessary. >> sounds to me like you were able to implement some change and were ahead of the curve but i want to look at an article from 2017 in which you announced the denver police department would change its use of force policy directing officers to avoid rushing into volatile situations and instead to employ de-escalation techniques that limit using weapons against people they encounter. so how did you implement that reform and do you think that is exactly a model for other departments to follow? >> yeah, yes, we did implement that and obviously a model and in addition to that i think you have to do a little bit more. every department i'm familiar with has an award ceremony and

at the end of the year, they go through the ceremony own give out awards and traditionally a lot of officers have asifed awards and denver not the exception for being involved in justified shootings. notice i didn't say good shootings. justified shootings. but, you know what, we needed to take it to the next level so in addition to that, maybe more so than that we created an award for preservation of life. in a situation where they would have been justified for using deadly force but didn't because of what you mentioned, the de-escalation and those sort of things and proper covering and thinking before you take a deadly action, those officers were recipients of the preservation of life award, which is a very high award and resonated really well with our police department. >> former denver police chief -- >> the other things we've done, implemented is certainly a duty, a duty to intervene. that's part of our policy and also a duty to administer first

aid. regardless of the circumstances providing that the scene is safe and secure, that officer, those officers have the responsibility to administer first aid as soon as possible. >> former denver police chief robert white, you had your finger on the pulse of a lot of good thing, thanks for sharing. that's a wrap for me. i'm alex witt. see you again tomorrow morning. my colleague alicia menendez speaks with the mayor of san antonio about the spike in coronavirus cases in his state and why he's so concerned. that's next. and still going for my best. even though i live with a higher risk of stroke due to afib... ...not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin, i'm reaching for that. eliquis. eliquis is proven to reduce stroke risk better than warfarin. plus has significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. what's next? i'm on board. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to, as stopping increases your risk of having a stroke.

eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily- -and it may take longer than usual for any bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. ask your doctor about eliquis. and if your ability to afford... ...your medication has changed, we want to help.

ahead of his first campaign rally in three months, with over 100,000 expected attend di, the mayor of tulsa set a curfew but it was lifted overnight at president trump's request. since the event was annou