i'm here for you. >> i'm glad diamond and silk of adding some diversity to the event tonight. but the one thing, joy, you and i have been looking at for the last several weeks in the streets of america with those protests is actually real diversity. those marches in the streets of seattle, in the streets of minneapolis, in the streets of chicago, in the streets of new york, that is diversity in action. so if we're going to play a diversity game tonight, the protesters are going to win. >> absolutely. talking with civil rights leader, talking with rev sharpton, bishop barber, to a person what activists have been saying to me and i'm sure to you, ali, is that what's been remarkable about this 25 days of consecutive protest all over the country, really all over the world, is how diverse it's been. it hasn'tn and indigenous and

everybody joining to the -- together to force real change. don't go by what they're saying, go by what's happening. people are actually changing their budgets. people are actually changing the rules, changing the laws. it's happening in new york, happening in california. they're winning black lives matter is winning. it's not the slogans they're choosi choosing, it's that they're persistent and they're winning. >> it's a small window to be on the right side of the window. so i invite all americans to jo join us. always my pleasure to spend a little time with you. good evening to you all. president trump has landed in tulsa, oklahoma. he was set to address the crowd that had gathered outside the bank of oklahoma arena as part of a pre-rally event but according to a member of the

trump staff, that is not going to happen nanymore. either way, tonight's campaign event is not actually the big story. this is about how the event is taking place against the backdrop of racial tensions and the demand for an end to police brutality and racial inequality that continues to permeate this country and the world. it's about how donald trump chose to hold this rally in a city ripe with a history of violent race relations a day after juneteenth but doesn't acknowledge that history. it's really about the thousands of people who have descended on tulsa during a pandemic to either attend this rally, many without wearing facial masks or about those protesting it. it's about how trump refuses to acknowledge any of these elephants in the room. the campaign revealed that six members of donald trump's advance team in tulsa have tested positive for covid-19. the campaign said those infected will not be at the event and

they have begun the contact tracing process. we are awaiting donald trump descending that airliner, air force i, to head to the bank of oklahoma center. that's where cal perry is, outside the bok arena. what's the situation where you are? >> this is one of the three entrances people can get into the arena. the grim reaper has arrived to remind everybody we are living through a pandemic. if you go swing over and show the police, the police have formed a blockade. there's about to be another announcement. it's a reminder, if you're going to the trump gathering, you have

to be there. the inflexion point is going to be once this rally wraps up. once the trump supporters come out, they will likely be met by protesters who will stay here. and as you rightly laid out in the intro, this is a continuation of the protests that we have seen sweep the nation in cities across the country. i think it's one that people would rather have not had to come out and take part in today because of the pandemic. we know those juneteenth celebrations yesterday were mno supposed to take place. >> cal, the president has arrived in your town. i've got him splitting the screen with you at the moment, coming down the stairs of air force i. he's getting there a little later than expected. he's about half an hour later than expected in his arrival to tulsa. he is being greeted there and then he is headed to the --

directly to that arena. there was going to be something else he was doing outside of that but that's not going to happen anymore. >> there was supposed to be overflow area, an outdoor area. the seating is 19,000 capacity on that bok arena. then there was supposed to be an outdoor overflow area that the president said was going to be packed. i'm not sure that it will be. i'm not sure the trump campaign do didn't call off -- there's something happening here, ali, so we're going to slide. i'm not sure the president didn't call off the address because there's not going to be anybody there. we're starting to see some scuffles now where we are. part of that is a crowd conversation. we're going to have that conversation in the coming days about how many people were here. it's been a slow trickle, a very slow trickle all day of trump supporters. nowhere near a hundred thousand peel. we' -- people. the president will give a speech

inside. that will be, as we understand, from the campaign, the quote, unquote, end of show. continuing on here, we are seeing minor scuffles break out. my concern is once that rally is over, the trump spopeupporters out. 250 guardsmen are on call to step in if needed, ali. >> scuffle between police and protesters or -- >> no, between black lives matter protesters and trump protesters. there are these verbal arguments that get very heated. they're often about god, about religion. they get heated. here we go, the alex jones info wars armored personnel carrier has made another loop around.

earlier it was followed by the right-wing militia boogaloo boys. the authorities said this is a federally protected zone, anybody with a weapon has to leave. but these armored carriers are a main stay at these event and it's now doing lip, ali. >> we've got a few things going on. we've got you where you are. then we've got a shot on the left, which is inside the arena. i think can you deem from that shot there's no social distancing going on whatsoever. there do not seem to be people with masks on. there are very few. i see a journalist there with a camera with a mask on. i don't see a lot of oer people with masks on there. there has been a decision by the white house to only deliver an address inside. we saw the empty area a few moments ago. there were no people fathgather there. the trump campaign said he is

rallying in tulsa with thousands of energetic supporters. protesters interfered with supporters blaocking access to the metal detectors, which prevented people from attending the rally. we're proud of the thousands who stuck it out. they're giving us some explanation as to why there are not people in that outside area where the president was supposed to have an initial address before going into this rally? >> reporter: yeah, they're laying the groundwork, i think, for not as large a crowd i would hope for. the protesters were nothing but peaceful. they were certainly loud and vocal, as they have been across the country fighting for equal rights. they did set up in this sort of street and they put themselves between the trump supporters and the arena, but i saw and we showed it live on our cameras or live on msnbc the police were

filtering out those trump supporters, bringing them behind the police line. the juneteenth celebrations last night were supposed to be cancelled. folks did not want to come out. we spoke to them and they said we feel like we have to because we have to counterprogram the narrative that the president is coming out. i don't think anybody would choose to be outside in a pandemic. that said, everybody is now wearing their political affiliations on their face. the majority of trump supporters are not wearing masks. the majority of black lives matter supporters and anti-tr p trump supporters are wears masks. we're behind a giant wall here. we're trying to stay at a socially distant measure, it's incredibly difficult here. we're triying to pick our spots as we go. >> what's the line that says radical protesters coupled with

a relentless onslaught from the media attempted to frighten off the crowd. >> there's a lot of bloggers out here. there's a lot of folks out here not affiliated with major news networks who are live streaming this. that was definitely clogging up the street. at least in this location i did not see anybody trying to intimidate the supporters of donald trump. there was certainly an effort to get the word out about black lives matter and that still happening. the crowd you're seeing is a mix between trump supporters and black lives matter supporters. they are between anybody who wants to get in that rally and the entrance. that said, the police have been continuously reminding people if you have a ticket, you go to that far sidewalk, you walk down that sidewalk, you can get into the rally. the police were facilitating the entry of donald trump supporters

into the rally. it was upsetting the crowd. it was upsetting the crowd because the crowd is chanting at them black lives matter. the crowd is trying to carry forward that message to the police, a message about police violence, a message about the unmatched power of the police and while that was happening, the police were facilitating the event behind them. now, i would assume that is the policy for the city of tulsa to facilitate the event on behalf of the president, but it did provide a strange optics for the protesters. just to be clear, in this location i did not see anybody intimidating or trying to physically stop the trump supporters. if they had, i assume there would have been arrest. police tried to get everybody out of here with a weapon. this idea that in this location and i don't know if that press release is talking about this location, people were intimidating donald trump supporters, that's just not true. >> we also have a camera on the screen at the great american comeback celebration, in which there is nobody there.

there seemed to be a dozen people there. i assumed that's where the outside conversation was going to take place. is there an overflow of people who have not been able to get into the arena, trump supporters? >> i'm not sure because i am on the outside of what is a five-level layered security. i'm going to date myself here when i compare it to the green zone in baghdad but that's what it's like. you have the national guard on the very outside, then a fence line of the trump campaign security officials, then you have a covid check, a temperature check and the fifth ring is the inner security service. that's four rings of security away from where i am. there were people camped outside for the last few days but it wasn't more than a few hundred people. i would imagine if the president is cancelling his speech to that outdoor area, there's just not the people there. and i also imagine they're going to take the people out of the

overflow area and get them into bok center. it is as secure a location as i have seen. there's less security at nba all-star events than there are here. my concern is after the speech is over and the trump supporters leave, do they run into people on the street and it dark out. you're seeing the splintering of america in front of your eyes. you have antifa supporters, that's kind of the group marching by now, distinctive in what they wear. the boogaloo boys, you have the trump supporters, the black lives matter movement. this didn't happen four years ago. you now see in these events now the splintering of america. all of these different groups, all of these different affiliations and everybody is wearing the uniform of these

afill yag affiliatio affiliations. a lot of this is performance art, a lot of trump supporters are performing for the cameras. these uniforms are sort of ridiculous in a modern raheem morris -- modern era but that is how people are identifying themselves. >> you just let your control room now if anything is going on and we'll come right back to you. on the left of your screen you're seeing the inside of that rally. body right you're seeing eric and lara trump addressing the crowd. the rally inside was not to begin until 8 p.m. eastern. donald trump arrived late to oklahoma, but he ended up -- he's skipping one of the events. there was going to be an outside event that his campaign said due to protesters and intimidation by the media is not going to

occur. we're going to keep an eye on all that is going on right now. cal and other reporters are on the outside of this thing. as can you see, that is not a socially distanced gathering and there are virtually no masks inside, even though the coronavirus task force advised against doing this and advised that people socially distance and wear masks and donald trump said people can do whatever they want to do. joining knee is generme is jenn. this is the beginning in trump's mind of the campaign. this is what he wants a campaign to look like. this is what he's used to. this is what he feeds off of, and to him it starts tonight. they've even put out a press release saying he's out there talking to thousands of people in tulsa, oklahoma while sleepy joe biden is in his basement in delaware. >> well, i got to think that the trump campaign is going to be

very upset about the turnout. as you can see from those images, the inside of the auditorium is not full, let alone the outside. they were not able to get 19,000 people in deep red oklahoma to turn out for the first rally of essentially the general election campaign for donald trump. i got to think that brad pascal and some other people are going to be in a heck of a lot of trouble with the campaign. i think it's interesting that their spokesman is already putting out an excuse for why there aren't so many people. well, they were intimidated, well, the media intimidated them. that is excuse mongering 101, trying to come up with excuses before their boss catches wind of how poorly attended it is. ali, you and i have watched for week massive amounts of very diverse americans on big cities,

little cities, rural america, small towns everywhere out on the streets. and then you look at this crowd, there's a few thousand people, maybe more than that, but it's not full. and it is lilly white. you have to wonder -- >> i'll just point this out, jennifer. look at all of blue, the empty seats there, look at all the space in front of the camera that's here. this is a stadium that holds 19,000 people and they had an overflow event outside. the overflow event was cancelled because there's no one there. we want to underscore this because donald trump will get up there and say the cameras aren't showing you how full it is because that's his schtick. it's not full. >> that's correct. and the contrast of the protests across the country and this, they had an opportunity to stage

manage. and why the heck is he in oklahoma to begin with? this is not a swing state. this is not a state that's in contention. presumably he went to deep ruby red oklahoma so he could get a really, really big crowd. if he can't get a really, really big crowd in oklahoma, what does that really say about sort of the momentum and the enthusiasm? listen, the president has had a dreadful week. he's had a couple supreme court cases that went sideways on him, john bolton has come out with his book. there's now a flap over the attempted firing, i guess they have fired now the u.s. attorney for the southern district. the poll numbers from, quote, sleepy joe biden are just atrocious for the president. so this is not a good week for him. i think he was hoping this would sort of break the train of bad news. i think this is not probably going to do it for him. >> i'm curious as to what the tone of the discussion is going to be.

because the two things the president relies on in these rallies are it doesn't really matter what question is being asked. his answer is the economy and judges, the economy and judges. here he is in an situation where the economy is not strong and his judges turned on him this week. >> yes. and i think what we're seeing is that really the only thing they have now is animosity towards other people. animosity towards people who he claims are radicals, are infiltrators, are left-week kooks, animosity towards the press, towards china. this is what they're reduced to. because as you correctly say, for a while there at least he had something to run on. it was the economy. now we have tens of millions of unemployed peeople. we have 117,000 dead americans and they're escalating in places that are red america that were following donald trump's lead in

opening very, very soon, not doing social distancing, not doing masks and now you see an upswing. so what is it that this guy is going to run on and what is he selling other than division and hate? i think what you're seeing, just think about the audience at home, which is thousands of times bigger than the people in the hall. do they see someone who sounds and looks like they do? do they see someone who is trying to heal the divisions of america? do they see a successful president or do they see someone who is increasingly desperate and angry and yelling and really talking to a crowd of true believers at a time that you're supposed to be reaching out and securing those swing states. we've seen some really remarkable polling this week where the president is trailing in places that he should be leading and he's barely ahead in places in which he really did very, very well in 2016. so what's going on here? and what is the campaign going

to do when he looks at these poll numbers, they aren't getting any better, he looks at the turnout here. it's pretty bad. not only do you have those big areas of blue that are empty, even in the main areas, you see empty seats scattered throughout. they didn't even completely fill the lower rungs of this auditorium. i would not want to be, frankly, one of those trump staffers in charge of advance work and trying to get a crowd. >> this always puts him in a bad mood when he doesn't get the crowd he's looking for. donald trump's reelection rally in tulsa comes against the backdrop of the deadly coronavirus pandemic with cases surging in areas, including oklahoma and ongoing protests and racism. joining me is valerie jarrett. valerie was president obama's

point person. valerie, good to have you here on the show. thank you for being with us. you have been following, as we all have, the protests of the last few weeks, the efforts in congress to come up with some kind of police reforming bill, the bipartisan efforts, the idea that senator tim scott's got a plan. it doesn't look like a democratic plan but it's a plan. where do you come down on what needs to be done? the focus is broadly on inequality in america but it seems very focused on policing in the last three weeks. >> well, yes. i think that the outpouring of support we've seen in all 50 states, demonstrations that have people of all ages, all races, all backgrounds saying that we have got to improve the relationship between communities of color and police and, hey, by the way while we're at it, let's really deal with the legacy of racism in our country. and what i would have hoped is

we would have a president that would try to pull us together at a time like this, where he can see a kind of broad base of support around the country, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing congress trying to take some sensible steps. i think we need efforts at the federal level because this is truly a civil rights issue and we should be protecting all of our citizens from discrimination. we need efforts at the state and local level, 18,000 law enforcement agencies are really supervised by mayors and local jurisdictions and there are certainly steps they could all be taking to de-escalate, to train better, to ensure that the folks who are swearing to serve and protect us are actually protecting all of us, that our justice system is just and at a time like this in the middle of a global pandemic that has hit communities all across america, the president of the united states decides to hold a rally so he can have the adulation that he needs? i suppose he put his supporters and his staff that you mentioned at the beginning of the show,

several who have tested positive in harm's way. you just really have to question what in the world is going on here. >> you have actually made the point a month and a half ago, two months ago the concept of defunding the police was not a popular concept. it was fair live niche. both you and president biden said you don't support that idea. you've talked about increasing funding to the police. tell me why. >> in this is what i say, it's matter of allocation of resources and what meets our values. president obama called on our nation's mayors to review the use of force with the community. there should be a social contract there. maybe we do need more resources for screening and training and background checks and teaching our law enforcement officers to de-escalate, to look for implicit biasses and train

according to those, to screen out officers who don't meet the very high threshold that we should have when we give somebody a badge and a gun. on the other hand, maybe our officers are doing work that is way beyond their scope and we should be sending social workers and trying to improve our education system and keeping our young people in school, rather than expelling them, looking at ways for increasing job opportunities for folks all across america. president obama is my brother's keeper initiative to help boys of youcolor have a better trajectory. president obama's justice department brought 25 pattern practice investigations where they found these systemic challenges. that might need a major restructuring. then there are going to be places that have already started incorporating many of our

recommend daegations and you mi not need the systemic changes. it's not as simple as get rid of the police. we don't want to completely get rid of our law and order. the trayvon martin, that happened when people took law and order into their own hands. i think the message coming loud and clearly is business as usual is no longer acceptable. it's not acceptable in the police departments and shouldn't be acceptable in society. i have been heartened to see the business community step up and say we should be looking, is our hours in order? are we building a community that's inclusive? and it's a ripple effect in our country, way beyond just law enforcement. >> looking over to the left of the screen, that appears to be congressman jim jordan standing there. he's easy to recognize because he never, ever, ever wears a jacket and once again he's not wearing a jacket in an auditorium that is not full. >> and he's not wearing a mask.

>> that's correct. he's not wearing a mask. you do see a few people, probably about i'd put at about 4% of people wearing masks. every now and then you see a mask in there. as a policy oriented person who really was involved in designing policy for president obama, you talked about implicit bias training with police, it complicated. when president obama gave his address a couple weeks ago, he spoke about county officials and mayors and local officials dealing with these use of force issues on a local level. it's probably policy correct. it's probably the way these things have to change. but how do you square that with the anger out in the streets of people yelling to defund the police and wanting something that feels like really big change because the change that you're talking about and barack obama is talking about is going to take place at 18,000 police departments across this country at varying speeds and in varying degrees and the people out there in the street want something that feels like big change now.

>> well, look, the reality is that they are supervised at the local level, but as i said before, this is a federal civil rights issue. we need a justice department that is overlooking all of these 18,000 agencies to see whether there are patterns and practices. when we brought those investigations forward, many times we entered into an agreement with the city but we also often entered into dissent decrees supervised by a federal judge so we had some teeth in that oversight. that's been abandoned by the str trump administration. we need to make sure there is integrity in the prosecutor's office as well. one of our recommendations was maybe have an independent investigation, such as you saw in minnesota when the attorney general there, keith ellison, took over the investigation because local prosecutors have to work hand in glove with the police and an inherit conflict

of interesting we do need the federal government's oversight to make sure that the civil rights of every single american are being tekd. >> valerie jarrett, good to talk to you. she is the author of "finding my voice voice, my journey to the west wing." we got word from the campaign that a rally at the gathering outside, you are looking at

people dismantling the area where there was no one in attendance. there are protesters on the outside who are still protesting for an end to bigotry and prejudice and racism and police violence. this of course prompted by the president's decision to visit tulsa as we wait for the president's first campaign rally since the start of the coronavirus outbreak. coronavirus outbreak a lung cancer diagnosis

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if you're living with hiv, keep loving who you are. this is the sound of greatness (speaking german badly) no shortcuts no magic stars (speaking spanish badly) (speaking french badly) being great means being pretty bad for a while and soon you'll be something else (speaking german perfectly) speaking a new language rosetta stone how language is learned all right. we are back in tulsa, oklahoma. we are inside the bank of oklahoma arena, which seats 19,000 people. now, as you can see, there's a whole lot of blue seats up there, a lot of empty seats, a lot of empty floor space. we don't have a count as to how many people are actually in that arena right now, but this is donald trump's first rally since march 2nd. it's sort of a kickoff for him

for the campaign. there have been some tense scenes outside the bok center where trump supporters and pro tessers a -- protesters are facing off as state troopers try to keep things under control. the trump campaign announced six of their staffers have tested positive for the coronavirus, including two secret service agents. let's go to janelle ross. she's outside. we don't have reporters inside. what's the situation outside? there was supposed to be an outside event that trump organizers are blaming on protesters and the media not being able to get access to. is there a big gathering of trump supporters outside? >> there is not. there are certainly some trump supporters who either do not have tickets or are still making their way through the various layers of security. but there is not a tremendous volume of supporters here. and there also is not a

tremendous volume of protesters here. there are some of each and there have, as you said, been some -- i guess i saw some verbal altercations between a group that identified themselves as part of the local black lives matter group and some that identified themselves as proud boys. but i haven't seen any confrontation near the box center at all. >> i don't know where you are in relation to where cal perry was earlier, but what we have on the screen is the venue for the outside event that got cancelled because they said protest and media blocked supporters. they're now taking that down, actually dismantling it. after the event is over, what happens? right now it seems that police or state troopers or somebody are keeping the various crowds at bay? >> reporter: that is true. as i understand it, i guess i

should say that i believe that cal and i are on opposite sides of the building. i'm on the south side of the box center. as i understand it, they're going to disperse the crowd in the same way they let them in, probably in as orderly a fashion that they can. there are both local police officers, national guard officers, homeland security officers and of course secret service officers all over the area downtown. >> all right. janelle ross, we're going to keep checking with you and cal. it is 6:37 local time in tulsa, oklahoma, 7:37 in the east. the president is supposed to start talking around 8 p.m. eastern. and as of now, we don't know whether that's on time because he was about half an hour late arriving to tulsa, but the entire event prior to him speaking in there was cancelled. so it is possible the president is going to still start talking.

we've got the vice president meek pen mike presence addressing the crowd right now. i've gotten emails who don't know what juneteenth is. june 1st, 1863 is the day the emancipation proclamation took effect, the day most americans mark as the end of slavery. but that was limited into its scope. only the states that had succeeded from the confederacy would see their slaves freed. slavery continued in border states, taking another two and a half years to fully come to an end everywhere. now, ten full weeks after the civil war's official end, on april 9th, general gordon granger rode into galveston texas to issue a decree that said all slaves are free and the connection heretofore existing

between them becomes that of hired labor. that was after the end of the civil war but the last date on which an enslaved american may not have realized that they were then free. july 4th may have given americans their political independence, but june 19th, juneteenth, was the day all americans were given their freedom and it is celebrated as such every year. amid growing concerns that tonight's rally will turn into a coronavirus superspreader event, the trump campaign said it's going to begin contact tracing six members of its tulsa advance team who tested positive of covid-19. a source familiar with the matter told nbc news that

staffers had been on the ground for about a week. the majority of them had not been wearing masks, were going out to restaurants and engaging in normal life. of the six who have been infected, at least two have been identified as united states secret service agents. joining me is an nbc public health analyst and director of the national center for disaster preparedness for colombumbia university. 8.7 million infections, 2.255 million u.s. infections. so a quarter of all infections in the world are in the united states. and 120,000 u.s. deaths, more than a quarter of all deaths are in the united states. and we have an administration, as you are can see right now in this image we are showing you that seems to have just decided they're not that into coronavirus anymore. >> well, they never really, ali, were into it.

it seems they've been misrepresenting facts and misstating reality and opposes signs since the very get-go here. what's remarkable now is that what we're seeing a the this rally is a very overt denial of the fact that this pandemic is still with us. it's turned into a political issue. you almost don't have to see a maga hat anymore, if you see somebody walking around the city without a mask, those are likely people who follow trump and pence who seem to be making a thing of their defines of public health and public practices. i think it's going to be getting worse over time now. >> everybody who has attended this thing, there's four layers of security here. there's no social distancing going on. the room is not full. it's supposed to hold 19,000 people. it's nowhere close to that. the seats up on top are entire

live empty and the overflow area outside is completely empty. however, there's still some number of thousands of people gathered up next to each other. they were all asked to sign a waiver holding the campaign and the president blameless should they contract the coronavirus. everything about this is weird. >> how bizarre has this gotten? like i said, it's become a very, very partisan political issue that has been promoted and reinforced by the president and vice president. they don't seem to be aware of the optics of what they're doing. they're sending out a message to their supporters we don't believe the covid virus is a threat to us so watch what we do, we don't wear masks, we crowd our supporters into a tight space, they're not social separating and not wearing masks.

thoo this is an extremely polarized situation about a public health message about how to protect ourselves from this ongoing pab d -- pandemic we're all experiencing, ali. >> dr. birx and fauci recommended against this. oklahoma health department asked the president to have the -- at least they asked the stadium to enforce the basic rules that the stadium would enforce, which is social distancing and masks and for whatever reason, the president overruled that and said people can do whatever they want. as you said, it's become like a maga hat. the idea we're not going to wear a mask seems like a political statement. you and i have been talking about this from the beginningi don't understand what switched and when it became political.

>> i think it became political almost immediately, ali. i think the president and his people may have sensed that if this really got out of control or americans believe that this was going to be a really raging public health crisis, that that would somehow have a consequence on the reelection campaign. and as time goes on and we're getting more and more cases and, as you pointed out, the statistics are showing still an extraordinary amount of activity in the united states and we're sort of moving you toward 17, 18 weeks from the election, we'll see more and more polarizing around this. the other thing i'm predicting, i think this is going to become a campaign issue. the president is going to try to claim a victory over covid by the, quote unquote, steps he had took, where it's clear if he had acted earlier and more honestly, we could have saved a lot more lives in the united states.

it's just a shame. i can't even imagine where this is going to go by the time they get around to november 3rd. but cuff syou can see the polit narrative unfolding right now, ali. >> always good to see you. we're going to stay on top of this story. coming up next as democrats accuse both president trump and bill bar of obstruction of justice, the former national security adviser john bolton is chiming in with a story of his own. a story of his own. come on, no no n-n-n-no-no only discover has no annual fee on any card.

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today a federal judge declined the justice department's request to delay publication of former national security adviser john bolton's tell-all book "the room where it happened." in a ten-page order, the judge sharply criticized bolton saying he's gambled with the national security of the united states, exposed his country to harm but the government has failed to establish an injunction will

prevent irreparable harm. trump called the ruling "big court win against bolton" and adding he'll have a big price to pay. they're also vying to seize any profits that bolton would earn from the release of the book. we've learned bolton deems trump a national security threat who committed impeachable offenses and these hard pressed to identify any significant trump decision during my tenure that wasn't driven by reelection calculations. what critics of bolton are saying is where was this information during trump's impeachment trial? joining me now, democratic congressman jim hines, representative for connecticut's fourth district, a member of the house permanent committee on house intelligence, the intel committee. how does a guy like you feel about this? you knew this. you knew there was information. you knew john bolton had this information because the house had heard from people who were

around bolton, who waited with him, for him, under him. so you knew he had the good and the republicans wouldn't call him and now you see he had the goods. what do you make of it? >> yeah, well, you you know, ita little mind boggling, right? on the one hand the president was impeached for basically holding up foreign aid to ukraine until they agreed to run an investigation on his political opponent and for obstruction of justice. this is a book full of, you know, the president apparently begging president xi of china to help him get re-elected, precisely what we worried about with respect to russia in the last election, and offering to apparently i haven't read the book yet but the excerpts suggest he apparently offered to slow down prosecutions on behalf of dictators that he liked. on the one hand this would have been deeply, deeply material stuff to the impeachment. and the fact that john bolton when his own people came before

congress and testified, the fact that he decided to keep that stuff from the republic in order to do a $2 million book deal speaks to his patriotism. right? now, ali, the interesting thing is let's imagine he had testified under oath and sworn to all of these allegations. would you have gotten another republican senator? i don't know. would you have gotten two? would you have gotten three? you certainly wouldn't have gotten a conviction. these senators, and i am watching my colleagues right now in tulsa shaking hands, no masks. they will give their lives for this president. i am not sure the outcome would have been different. but yeah. as somebody who was closely involved it would have been good to have those facts when it mattered to the country. >> i'm going to just show some pictures. this is the not full bank of oklahoma stadium just to be clear. it holds 19,000 people. on the right side you have black lives matter protesters on the outside of the stadium. the trump campaign has said that the reason the outside event was not held, was canceled, was

because protesters and journalists were intimidating supporters. but, in fact, neither the inside of the auditorium is full and there do not appear to be any trump supporters on the outside of the auditorium. congressman, what do you do about john bolton now? is there anything to be done about it? is there anything to be brought back on the table? because your conclusion seems to have been, what would it have done? would it have changed votes in the senate? which is the only place it would have mattered to convict donald trump of the impeachment charges. is there anything to be done about john bolton? he is being called before the house to testify. i don't know if that is going to happen. what do you think happens next? >> well, uncomfortably since he wasn't in the end subpoenaed because he said he would contest the subpoena in court, unlike a bunch of others we can't go after him for showing contempt of congress. now, john bolton if he is one thing a thing, he is a very ambitious guy.

he cares about being on the inside in washington and being a player in foreign policy. that's gone. he is now basically -- scored a real hat trick by managing to irritate both extremes of the political spectrum and of course he has demonstrated how much he cares about his country by refusing to testify with absolutely material information. so, you know, i hope the $2 million he got for his book is nice because he is i think his credibility is shot. his role in the future as a participant or contributor toward our foreign policy or national security is gone. that said, there were plenty of people subpoenaed who defied subpoenas and if the congress is going to mean anything, if our authority is to be, you know, coequal branch as designed, we are going to need to demand accountability from those people who did defy our subpoenas. >> congressman, good to talk to you as always. thank you for joining me.

congressman jim himes of connecticut a democrat and member of the intel committee. there you are looking at pictures of the bank of oklahoma stadium in tulsa. donald trump is not there but he should be starting in about eight minutes or so. there are peaceful marches going on outside the auditorium as well. the auditorium has not been filled. it has a capacity of 19,000. you can see from the images there, you'll see a little more clearly as we hone in, not a lot of masks and about zero social distancing. let's turn to ambassador michael mcfall an msnbc international affairs analyst, former u.s. ambassador to russia during the bama administration and author of "from cold war to hot peace" an american ambassador in putin's russia. good to see you. i've been curious the last couple days since leaks of bolton's book came out to get your take on this. one point he makes very clearly is the degree to which donald trump ingratiates himself with dictators and adversaries but not just that. the idea you've got somebody, and you made this point many

times, in vladimir putin who has made himself an expert on his adversary america and somebody in donald trump who refuses to make himself an expert on anything at all. >> yes, ali. we've talked about it many times and now we have even more confirming evidence for that case. i also haven't read the book. i've only seen the excerpts. the thing that was most damning in the excerpts for me was when john bolton says that mr. trump, president trump has no views at all. he has no important policy orientation other than re-election. and that makes him a mark. that makes him a target for guys like putin, guys like xi. even abe talked about it early none their relationship to push him and persuade him to do certain things and we've seen them try to do that. we saw it in helsinki a few years ago when donald trump agreed with vladimir putin. he almost agreed to hand over a bunch of americans including me and that is because he doesn't have any views. he doesn't have a foreign policy

orientation. that makes it very easy for these other leaders to manipulate him. >> so what have we learned from this? what did you not know that you got from bolton's book, anything at all? >> well, the xi comments were interesting to me of course, right? that he would just agree, yeah. set up concentration camps. i think that's fantastic. i think that's going to create real problems for the president when he tries to paint vice president biden as being soft on china. number two, that he would just as we knew before but we didn't know it in the china case, try to get other foreign leaders to help him win re-election. as you just were talking with congressman himes just before we had an impeachment proceedings all about that and now we have another case where very directly the president tried to get the chinese to help him in the

re-election. i did not know that. >> no, if somebody had given you the evidence you could have probably surmised it given the way the president has been behaving with other countries but the idea there is an actual fact we didn't know. on the left of your screen you are looking at the empty seats inside the bank of oklahoma stadium, not filled tonight. despite that they're not spreading out, not social distancing. everybody is close up next to each other. on the right side you have black lives matters protesters outside the arena. good to see you as always. thank you for joining us. michael mcfall an msnbc international affairs analyst and former u.s. ambassador to russia during the obama administration the author of "from cold war to hot peace an american ambassador in putin's russia." back right after this with live coverage of president trump's campaign rally in tulsa, oklahoma among an intense backdrop of coronavirus and continued calls for racial equality and police reform. with fidelity wealth management, your dedicated adviser can give you straightforward advice and tailored recommendations.

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all right. we are back with our live

coverage of the president's rally in tulsa, oklahoma. this is his first rally since march, really something he is thinking of as the kick-off to his campaign. he's been dying to get out there. this is the bank of oklahoma arena in tulsa, oklahoma. the arena holds 19,000 people and it is nowhere close to being full. despite the fact that there's lots of space in that arena as you can see, lots of seats available. there is no social distancing taking place in any meaningful way. there are very few masks in the room. outside there are marches under way, a protest under way by supporters of black lives matter. the trump campaign has said that they canceled the outside event because their attendees were being intimidated by protesters and media though i'll talk to our reporter about that in a second. not quite sure whether that is true. this is where the event was to take place. they are