event could turn into a sort of super-spreader event. and today we learned that six trump campaign staffers tested positive for covid-19, two of whom are secret the campaign claimed that nearly 1 million people wanted tickets to the rally. tonight, the arena with capacity for 19,000, had plenty of empty seats especially in the upper bowl. the trump campaign blamed the smaller than expected crowds on protesters and on the media. mr. trump claimed what we described as a bunch of maniacs came to attack tulsa tonight, presumably he was referring to the counterprotesters. maybe the black lives matter protesters. but as he put it, it could have gotten worse. >> and our people are not nearly as violent, but if they ever were it would be a terrible, terrible day for the other side. >> meanwhile, just breaking in the last half hour or so, there

are reports of a magnitude 4.2, a near perry, oklahoma, that was felt in tulsa. a 4 is a fairly strong trembler. not sure what caused that one, but there have been earthquakes caused by fracking. oklahoma is one of the states where oil and natural gas drilling are big business. that may be one of the reasons why. we're still trying to get more information on that. cal perry is downtown a few blocks from the b.o.k. center where the rally took place. first of all, cal, did you feel it? >> i didn't, but how 2020 is that? there was an earthquake in oklahoma. i did not feel it, joshua. >> if you see bees flying down the street, get off mic and just run, because who knows what's next? >> when you said it, i was like, of course, of course there was an earthquake. >> naturally, and then the flood comes down the street. but one thing we did not see a flood of were clashes between

protesters and supporters of the president. tonight i think was one of those nights where, let's be clear, a lot of us who do this for a living were holding our breath and hoping tonight did not get weird and it seems, mercifully, like it didn't. >> reporter: right, and in that moment we were all holding our breath was as the trump supporters left the arena. you had this small contingent of black lives matter supporters, i would say say 100 to 200 running loops around the arena. as they were coming around, they had meet the trump supporters. there would be verbal altercations. there were a couple of scuffles, but thankfully it didn't break into anymore. the police came, in fired a few pepper balls. i think that made a huge difference. the other thing was the entry points -- there are three points they could enter. when the crowd was leaving it seems this entry point stayed closed. they were funneling people out in the other way.

it may have made a big difference. that is always the fear here. it's going to be, as we continue to see these rallies from the president, as the trump supporters leave, they're met by these counterdemonstrators. joshua? >> thank you, cal. that's cal perry joining us from tulsa. let's head over to morgan chesky also in tulsa. morgan, what's it like where you are? >> reporter: joshua, the good news is we just saw several vans of law enforcement that have been patrolling the four square area. they just drove off in about half a dozen vans. that is a very good sign. just within the past hour we were starting to see the crowd dissipate in this area. there were still people shouting at each other, but right now -- i'm going to show you what we didn't anticipate -- this is an incredibly quiet downtown tulsa. we know when people left the arena, they were either going home to go to bed.

a lot of folks had a long time drive tonight. watch your step, guy. right now, the hope is that it remains this way through the night. obviously there were several hundred if not a thousand protesters with black lives matter that were making their way down this street a few hours ago. i did have a chance to speak to people that sat in the arena tonight and listened to president trump speak. one woman in particular had this to say on just describing the whole experience in her own words. take a listen. >> we voted him to be president, a business leader. he's not our sunday schoolteacher, you know, because we wouldn't have voted him for that, but, you know, keep his personal life out of it, what he can do for us, our economy, our 401(k)s. >> reporter: and the economy, when i ask everyone who walked out of the arena tonight what their main concern was, it certainly was the economy, especially in light of covid-19

and the impact it's had on the american business owner and worker. just nationwide. and when i said, you know, what's the main message that you're walking away with tonight? the majority of the people i spoke to said they came here more for the experience rather than to hear any sort of particular message or part of the president's platform looking ahead to 2020. so this very much had a festival vibe to it. the good news is tonight, it appears the festival has left town, and tulsa will not have a need to protect anymore of the businesses. we know a lot of them shut down in anticipation of the rally. we saw the wood go up on the windows. tomorrow people are going to be able to come back, pull the blocking off the doors and windows and get back to life as normal, at least as normal as you can in the midst of a pandemic. >> thank you, morgan. that's morgan chesky, also joining us from tulsa. joining us now, oklahoma state representative monroe nichols.

his district includes parts of tulsa. good evening. >> good evening, how's it going? >> it's going well. i should note we have a little bit more information on that earthquake. it was a magnitude 4.5 at a depth of 4.8 miles under the earth, about 73 miles as the crow flies from downtown tulsa. i presume you did not feel it, right? >> i did not, but earthquakes are not out of the ordinary in oklahoma as it turns out. i think we led the nation in earthquakes last year. the more you come here, the more you'll lrn about everything. we'll show you tornadoes, earthquakes, floods, we got everything going on in oklahoma. >> we'll just take the earthquake tonight. don't jinx our reporters on the ground. what are your thoughts on the rally tonight? >> there's a lot of concerns a lot of us had about the covid spike we've seen here locally, concerned about having 19,000

people into the b.o.k. center. looking at what i saw, there was actually plenty of room to social distance in there due to the smaller crowd size, but i didn't see a lot of people wearing masks, so some of the concerns are still there. but as far as the rally goes, the president's comments were ones i kind of assumed he'd come with, which is the reason i was so concerned about him visiting the greenwood district, for example, because of the rhetoric. but what i'm most proud of -- i'll say this about our community. our community, this entire weekend has been about unity. our juneteenth celebration is still going on. the fears there would be violence is not a thing. the president unfairly categorizing protesters in our community, just isn't true. this community showed up for the country and showed the country that even though we may have had a set of visitors that we may not always agree with, we're

going to be a city of peace and unity, and we're going to move forward from this weekend on into the future here. >> you serve as a commissioner on the 1921 tulsa race massacre centennial commission. the union reporter summarized your thoughts in which you say president trump's rhetoric and actions run counter to the spirit of reconciliation that the city is seeking by commemorating this atrocity and the people who lost their lives and wealth in this racial attack. what kind of message did it send in your view that the campaign went ahead with the rally the day after juneteenth, not terribly far from where the massacre occurred? >> you know, i was hardly surprised by that, right? but what was most important, i think, in those comments i was talking about then and how i feel today even post rally is really just like, hey, we had our time to be able to celebrate juneteenth. we're continuing to celebrate juneteenth, and i think that was what was most important.

i think the president's rhetoric, as i feared before, came out today. i tweeted, i've never seen an american president claim to love this country so much and then spew so much hate as he talks about other americans. it really is a very bizarre thing. but as you see the pictures right now that are on the screen, tulsans are still celebrating the holiday. hopefully everybody will continue to stay safe. that's what our community is about. we had a protester who was peacefully sitting -- you guys carried it live on the network -- who was arrested earlier. she is out now, which is great. but as you see, folks are peacefully protesting. folks of all races and faiths came together yesterday for the celebration. the celebration continues, and so does our long march to -- considering, how do we rebuild the essence of the greenwood district and black wall street? that's what i'm taking away, a lot less about who came to visit

and a lot more about who is here to stay. >> monroe nichols we appreciate you taking time, sir. thank you so much. >> absolutely. >> they're doing the cupid shuffle in greenwood. they are having a good time. this is part of the crowd. a number of black lives protesters who were at the b.o.k. center made their way about a milish away from the arena where the rally took place. yeah, that's the cupid shuffle. ♪ cupid shuffle >> that's the scene that we are glad to see tonight after the rally. we have seen confrontations that were much less, let's say festive, at the end of the night than this was, so this may be the best possible outcome for this evening for these protesters and for public safety. but let's also talk about the politics of what happened. our panel is with us to help with that. joining us, nbc senior politics

editor, jonathan allen, senior political analyst for nbc news.com. melissa murray, a professor at the nyu school of law and michael hop kins the founder of northern star strategies. glad to have all of you with us tonight. beth, let me start with you, and the big question tonight out of the rally. can you do the cupid shuffle? yes or no? >> you know, i never tried but next time i see you, joshua, i'll do it with you. >> that's a deal, when we are allowed to be closer than six feet to one another. >> in the same room. >> yeah. seriously, what was your takeaway from tonight's rally. i'm making light of them dancing. we have seen other rallies that have not ended this pleasantly so, it feels like for whatever energy or maybe whatever strife the president was trying to bring, whatever conflict he was trying to arouse, headlines he was trying to generate, he didn't.

>> yeah, my major takeaway from the rally was that thin crowd we've talked about quite a bit tonight on our air. and to me it was a sign that even president trump's most ardent supporters decided to prioritize their health over being a prop in his campaign show. and that's why they didn't show up -- it's just not a safe environment. it's been made very clear over these months and so on that we've all been in quarantine or dealing with the coronavirus pandemic that the place you don't want to be is in an environment where there's going to be potentially people screaming, shouting, in an enclosed space with recirculated air. so a lot of folks stayed away. a lot of president's supporters are older people, and they're most vulnerable to illness from this pandemic. he calculated that their verve for him would outstrip any fears about health. clearly, that wasn't the case. he was let down. he did not get that charge of energy he typically does from his rallies.

you could tell that the speech was a little meandering. the energy in the crowd didn't seem to be what it's been in past rallies. it's clear he's going to have to recalculate. how he goes forward and campaigns under the circumstances. it's not last march when he held his last rally right before the end of the primaries on the democratic side. the world has changed. the country's changed. we're going through this pandemic, the protests that you mentioned. we're in a very different place, and the president needs to adjust. >> michael star hopkins, one thing we didn't hear tonight was juneteenth, a tulsa massacre of 1921. despite moving the rally a day out of respect. he mentioned joe biden is an impediment to the progress of black and brown communities. he says racial justice begins with joe biden's retirement. from public life, unquote. he painted himself as a friend to black americans and people of color in this country. what do you make of that?

>> i don't ever pretend to speak for all black americans, but let me say, he's not a friend of mine. when he went after president obama and called him a muslim, tried to say that he was from kenya, when he called colin kaepernick a thug, when he called african countries "s" hole places. he showed himself. he is not a friend of the african american community. like any true carnival barker his show is about to get canceled. you can tell his supporters are getting sick with the foolishness he shows, with the racism he supports himself with. donald trump is a joke and i think people are tired of it and you're seeing it with his supporters and you're seeing it with the protesters who are out there showing what's the best about america, showing the love and the unity we all want to bring this country. >> john allen, this rally seems pretty textbook, but kasie hunt points out, watching the rally makes it clear how and why

donald trump is struggling against joe biden. the attacks as he put it didn't land the way they did against hillary clinton. i wonder how you see it? for one thing, joe biden hasn't been out campaigning. he's been mostly quarantining. he gave a few public speeches in philadelphia and darby, pennsylvania in the philadelphia metro area. he hasn't been out as much, so they haven't been punching and counterpunching like we saw in 2016. >> yeah, i think kasie is right. it's difficult to demonize joe biden the way hillary clinton was demonized by donald trump. she had a quarter of a century not at the level of a united states senator, although some time as a senator. but in a more prominent role as first lady before that and as secretary of state. and there were so many sort of, you know, damaging narratives about her that had been out

there for so long that it was easy for trump to jump on those and use them. with joe biden it's difficult to define him in the same way. you saw this effort to try him to the fringe left as trump puts it. for those who have dealt with biden for a long time or those who casually observed him, he's not exactly what you think of as a rabble rousing radical. >> melissa, with regards to coronavirus testing, president trump echoed his claim about why we have so many positive tests in the u.s. listen. >> testing is a double-edged sword. we've tested now 25 million people. it's probably 20 million people more than anybody else. germany's done a lot. south korea's done a lot. here's the bad part -- when you do testing to that extent, you're going to find more people, you're going to find

more cases. so i said to my people, slow the testing down, please! >> now, health officials say the increased testing alone would not account for the rise in hospitalizations or icu admissions. with regard to south korea, by the way, south korea's population is 51.6 million people so if they were doing anywhere near america's testing that would mean they're testing half their population. how do you think this argument is playing among his supporters, professor? >> i think it's meant to appeal directly to his supporters. the whole idea that we need testing, we need widespread testing all flies in the face of this view that this is an overblown flu or cold and really isn't the kind of global health crisis the radical left has made it out to be. i hope your fact checkers were working overtime on those claims because they seem incredibly outlandish. the idea that we have tested

more than any other country in the world is frankly false. i'm no epidemiologist, i'm a law professor, but from everything we've heard reported and the science on this, that is just not the case. the idea that more testing leads to more cases, that's probably why you need to have testing. there are so many people walking around who are asymptomatic. simply understanding the breadth of the infection is important. that's what testing is meant to do. this was meant to appeal to his base, it likely did appeal to his base and again, just underscores the disinterest in science and facts. >> we should also note, by the way, that the white house responded to that comment that the president made tonight and suggested the president was joking with regards to some of the comments he made involving testing. much more for us to talk about. everyone please stick around. coming up, the u.s. attorney in manhattan has been fired. a judge denies the trump administration's request to block john bolton's book.

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gubut force factor's test x180 are tough. can help us man up, america, by boosting total testosterone. build muscle, fuel desire, and improve performance. get test x180 from force factor, the #1 fastest-growing men's health brand at walmart. during his nearly two-hour rally in tulsa, the president did not mention the firing of geoffrey berman, the u.s. attorney in manhattan. on saturday berman announced that he would step down after attorney general william barr asked president trump to fire him. that ended a 24-hour impasse. it began with mr. barr announcing that mr. berman was

resigning followed by mr. berman saying that was news to him. the panel is back with us to discuss. jonathan, the president did not bring geoffrey ber man up during the rally. he told reporters earlier that he's not involved. listen. >> why did you fire mr. berman, mr. president? >> that's all up to the attorney general, attorney general barr is working on that. that's his department, not my department. but we have a very capable attorney general, so that's really up to him. i'm not involved. >> jonathan, that's not true, though, is it? the president chooses these nominees, the nominees for u.s. attorneys. the senate confirms them. the attorney general works for the president, but it's the president's call. so that's not true, is it? >> right, the basic idea here, joshua, you're absolutely right, is the president has control over who the u.s. attorneys are, and in particular the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york, one of the most prominent roles in the

country, and one where the president might actually be under investigation himself or could have been in the past. it's one that he's had an eye on and one that the attorney general has had an eye on. the story coming out of the justice department is that the attorney general asked the president for permission to fire this u.s. attorney. the concept that the president is completely detached from this is ridiculous. >> beth, is this another example of the administration purging people who might get in the way of his re-election? preet bharara tweeted about this earlier. there are people that the southern district of new york has been investigating whom are associates of the president, michael cohen among them, rudy giuliani among them. how much of this, beth, do you think is purely political? >> well, what i was struck by was the fact that president trump was so hesitant to own up to the fact that he had been

involved in this. i mean, he's been pretty forceful when he's done these firings or purges in the past. we saw it after impeachment he went after several people who testified against him in the impeachment proceedings. we have seen him fire or get rid of several inspectors general. he typically stands up and owns its. and he's proud of it. it's a way for him to express his dominance and talk about draining the swamp or getting rid of people who aren't 100% loyal to him. he's proud of these actions that he's taken. that clip you just showed, he seemed very, very uncomfortable with having any relationship to this firing, perhaps realizing he's butting up to the fact that people are on to the pattern of this white house, the friday night purges, that it's unbecoming to the president, even perhaps to people who may be inclined to be sympathetic to him, i.e., especially in this case, republicans on capitol hill. they have to get their story straight. attorney general barr has been hung out to dry and president

trump is not acknowledging he played a role in this purge and it's unusual he wouldn't do so. >> beth, it almost makes it feel like a purge in that sense as opposed to, i hired him, i can fire him. decided to move to somebody else. appreciate his service. there will be a new u.s. attorney. end of press release. it seems -- michael, let me move on to talk about john bolton and this tell-all book that comes out on tuesday. there was a case in federal court from the trump administration to block the release of book over concern for national security information that the book contains. the judge wrote there is concern about what may be in the book and certainly did not give mr. bolton credit for putting in the book. saying there may be danger but there was not enough to block the book's release.

what do you make of that? >> here's where the trump administration's incompetence really shows. they say there's confidential information in there that can't be reported because there's national secrets. but at the same time they say bolton is lying and everything in the book is a lie. they're so stupid they can't get their argument together. because you can't have both. either it's national security and confidential or it's a lie, but it can't be both. so that's what we're seeing now, just more incompetence. now, i don't think anyone should go and buy bolton's book, because he should have showed up to the impeachment hearings when there was the threat of a subpoena. now that the book is out there, while it's clear bolton may not be someone who i support that he clearly is speaking the truth about the president, that he's incompetent. >> professor murray, where does the white house go from here? or is there anything more to this? the book will come out on tuesday and that's that? >> this morning, a judge in the district court of washington, d.c. announced that although the

bell had been rung and it couldn't be unrung and it was unlikely the president could restrain the book from coming out, it's likely that ambassador bolton could be held for failing to complete the prepublication process and review and the profits could be disgorged to the government because of that. it's also the case that if confidential information was revealed, ambassador bolton may be prosecuted criminally for that. those are some options available to the administration going forward. right now in terms of national security, we all know what's in that book because the book has been released to viewers and we heard about its content. >> do stick around. there's more for us to discuss in just a moment. we saw very little social distancing, very few masks at the president's rally in tulsa. before the rally we learned six members of his advanced team tested positive for covid-19. we'll talk coronavirus just ahead. stay close.

quick clarification before we continue. we made a slip of the tongue when we described how geoffrey berman came to be the u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york. we said he had been appointed by the president. the actual course was he was nominated, didn't quite have the nomination and then the courts installed him in that job, which they do have to powers to do. we think we got an inadvertent slip of the tongue that mischaracterized that. now let's continue. coronavirus was a key backdrop of the president's rally tonight. tonight we learned six members of the president's advance team tested positive for covid-19. that news came hours before people packed the bank of oklahoma center. few had their faces covered to protect others.

more than 30,000 cases. that is the highest daily infection rate since may 1st. america now has more than 2,200,000 confirmed cases and more than 120,000 known deaths. let's discuss it with dr. vin gupta, a global policy health expert. and msnbc contributor. it's good to see you again tonight. and tonight at his rally, president trump said that he asked officials to slow down testing to keep the numbers low. the white house later said that he was joking about that. officials have been saying for some months that the number of cases may be far higher than accounted for by the tests. how concerned are you about this, especially since we see a number of states where cases are spiking. >> good to see you. i just got off a shift here in seattle, an hour away from yakima.

the new epicenter on the west coast for rising cases. we're actively caring for patients life flighted an our icus. i have no tolerance nor do my colleagues for a president joking, not leading. it's totally irresponsible. it's a slap in the face of the families of the patients that we're caring for, for all health care staff that are working hard to save lives, and he's joking? he's not joking. he's been trafficking in misinformation from the very beginning. what i saw in tulsa concerns me, joshua, and it should concern all of us. there was thousands of people packed closely together. what i saw was no masks, as you said, no social distancing in a state that's seeing spikes in cases. the president is enabling it. it's completely irresponsible, and they have no idea because they don't have to deal with the consequences. folks like myself and my colleagues do. there's such a difference

between the leaders leading our country, quote/unquote, and those of us dealing with the consequences, and enough is enough. there's no time for joking. this is getting out of hand. >> the president is now back from his rally. what you're looking at on the left of the screen is joint base andrews. it's south of washington, d.c. the president will disembark air force one, get into the marine one and make his way back to the white house after the rally in tulsa. dr. gupta, regarding that rally, tulsa's health department director spoke at a news conference on wednesday and he talked about the potential for what we called super spread as a result of this rally. how do you see that potential super spread playing out? we already know the campaign said it's going to do contact tracing for the six people on the advance team who later tested positive for covid-19. this rally, it seems, could add a whole other wrinkle to, that a big wrinkle to that. >> you're right.

the way i see this playing out is this is happening in oklahoma, in a place that's experiencing a active resurgence in cases. the way it's going play out unfortunately, is that people are going to die. let's be really clear here. people will die because of the president's dedicated effort in trafficking, in lies and misinformati misinformation. we're seeing -- my colleagues in palm beach, the icus are filling up. in houston they're filling up. in tucson they're filling up in yakima, washington, they're filling up. i'm getting the overflows actively this week. there's no room for error. let me be clear to the american people watching this show. there's a huge gap between the reality and what the president wants to represent to you at these rallies and what we the physicians and respiratory nurses and are seeing in icus. there's little room for error and the president is acting as though he wants there to be a wave two by slowing down testing by not demonstrating good behavior.

it's shockingly irresponsible, and enough is enough. >> dr. vin gupta. i appreciate your insight. i heard you mention palm beach county. that's where i and my family are from so we're keeping a close eye on this. thank you very much. appreciate it. this week, the supreme court handed big wins to the lgbtqa and immigrant communities. the president said those decisions meant the court did not like him. where do those decisions leave us? that's next.

it was a big week for the children of immigrants and for the lgbtqia community. a supreme court rule in the both groups' favor to protect them from discrimination and deportation. on monday the justices ruled the civil rights act of 1964 protects workers from discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. on thursday, the court stopped

the trump administration from dismantling daca the program protecting undocumented immigrants brought to the u.s. as children. he wrote in part, quote, some conservatives worry that this week's immigration and lgbtq rights rulings undermine the president's pitch to evangelicals he's install judges who will advance their goals. here's part of what the president said tonight in tulsa. >> i'll soon be announcing a list of exceptional candidates for the supreme court and i'll choose only from that list, 100%. probably 25 incredible people. any one of which could be a great justice. and i did it last time and people loved when i did it and i'll only pick from that list. biden can't release his list because the names would be too extreme, too radical. they wouldn't be acceptable. >> the panel is back with us to talk more about this.

professor murray, let me start with you. you clerked for justice sonia sotomayor. so i'd love to hear from you. >> these were two block buster opinions that dealt a devastating blow to the administration and its policy goal. in the daca course, of course, the chief justice writing for a 5-4 majority noted that the administration had not followed the appropriate procedures for dismantling daca and for that reason it had to be remanded to the lower courts. the president would try to provide better rationales for ending the program, but you the rationales thus far provided were inadequate. as a political matter it likely means the president won't do anything because to go through the process of dismantling the appropriate justifications would take us well into the election and daca enjoys a lot of

political support on both sides of the aisle or at least among more moderate republicans. in terms of title 7, they are among the most consequential gay rights and -- i know in 2015 the court legalized same-sex marriage, but i think this decision was even more consequential. many americans may never get married but almost every american of adult working age will have a job. those provide important employment protections against discriminations and those are lgbtia persons and that's a groundbreaking decision. >> title 7 deals not only with what happens on the job, but hiring and firing and the training you get on the job that helps you ascend the corporate ladder, everything related to your life as an employee in the workplace. john, how much do you think the supreme court will be an issue leading up to the election? it was an issue in 2016.

the president trump got neil gorsuch and brett kavanaugh on the court. neil gorsuch authored the opinion on employment discrimination under a contextual reading. of the 1i68 civil rights act of 1964. how much do you suspect the president will want to dip back into that well? >> i think the president is going to talk about judges very frequently and it won't be just supreme court justices but lower court judges. this is one of his proudest accomplishments. the argument he'll make is he need judges that think like him more often. one of the differences this time around is that often conservative republicans look at judges as one of the biggest issues in front of them. you're going to see that more on the democratic side than you do -- more of an emphasis on that as a potential motivator for voters.

in particular you heard vice president biden, if i'm not mistaken, talk about possibly appointing a black woman to the supreme court in one of the debates. obviously, that has huge implications if he were to become president in terms of -- we talk so much about the backgrounds of individuals making decisions in our government, whether it's congress or the administration or on -- so if he were to go through with something like that i think that would potentially be a big motivator in the election but something that would have far reaching policy consequences later. >> the president mentioned he got more than 300 federal judges appointed. he did refer to the two supreme court justices he appointed as great. they're great, he said. michael, before we move on, the ruling regarding employment discrimination does have gaps as the associated press reports it.

the federal law does not protect businesses with fewer than 15 workers. it does not address bathrooms for people regardless of gender identity. it remain an open question whether employers can fire someone for religious reasons. briefly, michael, what happens next. >> jonathan hit the nail on the head. democrats have ignored the courts in terms of campaigns for a long time. that's not going to be true this go around. we have seen republicans attempt to strip away aca, we've seen republicans attempt to strip away the rights of lgbt. and we have seen republicans attempt to kick out dreamers. so now on november 3rd the court's on the ballot. we're going to see democrats absolutely talk about the courts. making sure rbg's seat is safe and craft the court so this country can be inclusive, this country can represent everything we know it's supposed to represent. >> stick around. we have a little more to discuss on the other side of this break. particularly local, state, and federal governments who all seem

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two-thirds of americans say they support banning police choke holds. house democrats are considering including that in a new bill. it would also include immunity and no-knock warrants. it would withhold federal funding from police departments that do not ban choke holds. let's bring back our panel. michael, let me start with you and your sense of how the president is reading this moment. i get that people say they want change, but the devil might be in all those details. might he still find some support for his proposals about law enforcement, including what was in the executive order he unveiled this week. >> sure. look, president trump is going to play around the edges. he's going to put forth some legislation that he thinks people like tim scott are going to support. but when it comes to diving in and being aggressive, outright

banning choke holds, having qualified immunity ended, putting away the program that allows local municipalities to get military grade weapon, he's not going to do that stuff because it requires political courage. i don't think anything is going to change until after november. >> on the left you're looking at video of when the president returned to joint base andrews. this is after the rally in tulsa. no doubt he's on his way to marine one or arriving at the white house now. beth, the minnesota state legislature failed to pass any police reforms. according to the times, democrats, republicans couldn't find common ground. how do you see this playing out in congress? i mean, minnesota is where george floyd died. they blocked the governor's mansion. they showed up in st. paul, booed minneapolis' mayor out from where the shrine popped up for george floyd, and in minnesota they got nothing into law so, what chances does

congress have? >> well, what congress can do is at least try to show there's some sort of bipartisan support for some form of police reform that is meaningful, that isn't just chipping around the edges in the way that we saw the president's executive order last week, which didn't really seem to do much. the fact that there is movement in the senate. fact that tim scott, republican of south carolina, the only black republican senator there, is taking the lead on this and there is some indication that one could see some movement, at least hand holding with democrats who have proposed something more sweeping, to at least come up with something that moves forward and has a bipartisan support. it's clear now, joshua, to everyone, that this is a moment that neither party can ignore. it's a sweeping movement. it's gone across the country. several localities have moved to make some changes on their police forces.

it's hitting every part of the country and it would be impossible for members of congress to ignore that and not try to come together around something that shows they're listening. we know that the senate is where good legislation goes to die, but maybe this time it will be different. >> before we go, the order that the president signed does not ban choke holds outright. says they can be used if an officer feels his life is at risk. this doesn't move the needle that much. before we go, professor, what do you think in terms of the judicial remedies of case law that might revisit the definition of use of deadly force? before we go. >> i don't think we should rely on the courts to be our salvation in this area. just on monday, the supreme court turned away eight different cases that would have dealt with the question of qualified immunity and holding police officers personally accountable for their misconduct. i think we can be more optimistic about the episodes on the state level.

for example, just today, colorado passed a sweeping piece of legislation that not only eliminates the use of choke holds, requires the use of body cameras, ends qualified immunity for police officers and requires documentation of episodes of police misconduct and even arrest. all of that is more promising. >> thanks very much for being with us. until we meet again, i'm joshua johnson. see you tomorrow afternoon at 3:00. see you tomorrow. good night. mber setting up shipstation. one or two clicks and everything was up and running. i was printing out labels and saving money. shipstation saves us so much time. it makes it really easy and seamless. pick an order, print everything you need, slap the label onto the box, and it's ready to go. our costs for shipping were cut in half. just like that. shipstation. the #1 choice of online sellers. go to shipstation.com/tv and get 2 months free.

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hi, everyone. we're back with continuing coverage. split screen moment. trump wrapping up a rally with a crowd of supporters much, much smaller, tinier, he might say than he anticipated. he reached to the depths of his rhetoric. including race baiting that does not bear repeating or broadcasting on this network. just outside the arena. protesters gathered on this moment of national reckoning of racism. it's all happening despite the threat of coronavirus which is breaking records in oklahoma and other states across the southern u.s. and the convergence of all of it