and now, with one of our best offers ever, we're committed to helping you do just that. get a powerful and reliable internet and voice solution for only $29.95 a month for three months. call or go online today. good morning. i'm ali velshi. president trump held what could go down as the deadliest

political rally in american history last night. as you can see, trump's first campaign event of the covid-19 era was far less popular than expected. the crowd in the 19,000-seat venue was a far cry from jam packed that his campaign was predicting. turnout was so low that trump and mike pence's remarks at an outdoor stage were cancelled minutes before they were set to begin because no one was there. the stage was actually torn down before trump started speaking inside. like any wannabe despot he spent most of his remarks pontificating about the apocalyptic future that he claims will happen if anyone but him is president. but here's what's missing from the speech. no meaningful solutions for the racial tensions. no naming of george floyd or breonna taylor and no mention of black lives matter. he also continued to dismiss the coronavirus pandemic saying we shouldn't even bother with it anymore. >> testing is a double-edged sword. here's the bad part. when you test -- when you do

testing to that extent, you're going to find more people, you're going to find more cases. so i said to my people, slow the testing down, please. they test and they test. we got tests that people don't know what's going on. we got tests. we got another one over here. the young man is 10 years old. he's got the sniffles. he'll recover in about 15 minutes. that's a case. >> okay. let's just be clear, that's a lie. testing is not a double-edged sword. it's an odd argument trump continues to make and it's counterintuitive. people testing positive actually have or had coronavirus. wouldn't you want to know who has the most contagious disease in modern history? like, say, the six members of the trump advance team who contracted the disease prior to the rally in tulsa? predictively, team trump doesn't think covid-19 played any role in the very low attendance. instead they're blaming

protesters and the media for blocking his supporters from entering. given what we witnessed last night, that seems like a phantom excuse. meanwhile, joe biden also participated in a campaign event last night but his campaign event actually followed coronavirus prevention guidelines. speaking at the 2020 colorado democrats virtual obama dinner last night, biden was blunt in describing the current state of affairs. >> more than 100,000 lives lost, many needlessly, because of the lack of movement on the part of the administration. millions out of work once again. the words "i can't breathe" echoing in our ears as we watched the brutal, horrifying killing of george floyd. it's outrageous and engaging. none of us can turn away. none of us can be silent. we're dealing with multiple national crises. we need leadership, leadership right now.

>> it comes as biden's vice presidential selection is beginning to tighten. one of the forerunners, senator amy klobuchar, announced she's taking her name out of the running saying biden should instead pick a woman of color. meanwhile the tide is turning against trump. the latest fox news poll shows biden a whopping 12 points ahead of him. this is a significant change from last month when biden was up 8 points. get this, biden is up way ahead of trump when it comes to black voters. but perhaps most damning, look at the favor ability versus unfavorability. biden is plus 9. trump is 13 points underwater. joining me now former twe2020 democratic presidential candidate julian castro. he's the former secretary of housing and urban development under president obama. the former mayor of san antonio texas. he endorsed joe biden earlier this month. the saddest part about the presidential primaries being over is that secretary castro and i don't get to talk as often as we did.

it's good to see you again, sir. i want to ask you about immigration because this has become a matter on which vice president biden has taken an approach that is closer to yours. what we saw this last week was the supreme court saying that donald trump's daca activities are not legal and cannot continue and the 800,000 people who were at risk of deportation are now here to stay, at least for a while. and vice president biden is saying he will move toward a path to citizenship for all of them. this is the kind of thing you've been pushing for. >> well, yeah. you know, out there in our country what's really notable about this issue of daca and dreamers is that majorities of democrats, majorities of independents and a majority of republicans agree that we need to find a permanent solution so that these folks who are students, they're serving in our military, 30,000 of them are front-line health care workers,

about a third of them we could categorize as essential workers out there. so they're part and parcel of progress in our country. the difference couldn't be starker in terms of the reaction to the supreme court decision. on the one hand you had donald trump saying, you know what, we're going to get this back up and going and they're going to take another run at trying to deport these dreamers. on the other hand, you had joe biden saying, look, we can all find a solution here so that they can stay in the only country that they have ever called home. it was another example that when it comes to a sound, reasonable immigration system, you know, joe biden really gets it and donald trump is trying to use these young people as a political pinata to try and get re-elected. he's trying to do the same thing he did in 2015, 2016 and i think that americans are tired of that and want solutions. i think that if joe biden is

elected, when he's elected, we're not only going to be able to address daca and turn that into a permanent solution but also make some common sense immigration reforms. >> i'm an immigrant to this country. immigration is a sentimental issue to me. to some it's a moral issue, particularly when we've seen what's going on at these borders. there are still people in cages at our borders in america in 2020. ultimately, secretary, it's an economic issue. we need immigrants in this country. stephen miller and donald trump are sort of wrong on the economics about this. they want gdp to grow. gdp is a function of people and their output. we don't have enough people. if you had to pick 800,000 people to be immigrants to this country, you'd pick the dreamers. >> absolutely. these are folks who are hard working, they're in school, many of them are getting their degree in college, some of them in grad school. they're getting out into the

working world in a number of different industries. and so they are helping make our economy move. to say that we should deport more than 700,000 of these talented young people, all we would be doing is hurting ourselves as a country. you know, joe biden recognizes that. unfortunately donald trump has chosen this and this group of people to create this political scapegoat. it's the politics of division with trump versus the politics of healing and solutions with joe biden. you know, i think what you saw at that rally last night with the low attendance, with the dampened enthusiasm in the crowd, people are getting tired of these politics of division that donald trump has really perfected over the last four years, five years. you see that very clearly now. people are not going to put up

with this in the middle of a pandemic when more than 20 million people are still out of work and they see that we have some very real challenges from deep inequality to immigration to putting people back to work that we need to solve. he's just not the one to do it. >> you were the mayor of a city. and this is important because policing, as barack obama said in his address a couple of weeks ago, in the end there are 18,000 police departments across this country and this is going to get solved with mayors, with county executives, with sheriffs, with police chiefs at a local level more than it's going to be solved at a federal level. what do you think we need to do right now? >> you know, my advice to mayors out there are a couple different things. number one, there are immediate policy changes that you can make right now that can make a difference. banning chokeholds and strangleholds. you can look at your use of force policies, discipline policies, accountability

policies. a lot of cities are also going through their budget process right now. their budgets have been rocked by this coronavirus. sales taxes are down, occupancy taxes are down. every department should be scrutinized, including the police department. and you can begin to reimagine law enforcement. take a look at what mayor london breed is doing in san francisco. why do we need to send an armed cop every time that somebody has a fender-bender and they just need to fill out forms for insurance purposes. why don't we start being smarter about how we respond to people who have a mental health issue or who are homeless, who oftentimes they're stigmatized as dangerous when they're not. that takes up a lot of the time and the effort and the cost of policing. so we can begin to shrink the footprint in a reasonable, smart way of policing and reimagine law enforcement and recognize the opportunity costs that we actually need to be investing

more in housing, in literacy, in education, in those things that boost up the economic mobility and the quality of life of people in local communities. >> and i'd love to have that conversation with you. i'll invite you back for that because you know a lot about housing. as we get past this, even in these protests there were a lot of people saying this is more than policing, it's the justice system, it's the employment system and it is housing. so if you don't mind, we'll continue that discussion at another time. julian castro, former hud secretary under president obama, former 2020 presidential candidate and former mayor of san antonio. good to see you as always, sir, thank you. as we discussed on this show, one of trump's favorite topics is the courts but this week he was dealt two blows by the supreme court, ruling against his administration on banning discrimination on workers based on sexual orientation or gender identity and stopping the white house from ending daca, protecting roughly 800,000 young folks brought to this country illegally by their parents.

joining me now by phone, a very busy new york attorney general, leticia james. attorney general james, good to talk to you. thank you very much for joining me. i want to talk to you about police in a moment, but given that i was just talking to secretary castro, i just want to ask you, you were part of a group of attorneys general making the case for the dreamers in this past week, so i want to get your reaction to that first. >> so i co-led this fight to protect the dreamers, the 800,000 dreamers across this nation and 150,000 in new york state. i led with my colleague and friend, attorney general becerra from california. the supreme court made clear that this is their home and that these individuals obviously have contributed much to our society and much to our country. america is a country made richer by immigrants, our culture made richer by their contributions and our economy made more

prosperous because of their work. i'm so proud to have co-led the fight to protect this critical program. it's important that individuals understand that these individuals who are primarily young people, they go to school here, they pay taxes here, they raise their families here and they're vital members of our community. this is their home. and any attempt to renew this effort to dismantle this program will be met again with the efforts of my office as well as the office of the california attorney general, attorney general becerra. >> attorney general, on june 3rd after i returned from minneapolis and chicago covering the protests, i was covering them in new york city and that night a video came out of what appeared to be violence perpetrated by the new york police department on what appeared to be a peaceful protester. i tweeted that out, and you also tweeted out to say people with

information about these things need to get in touch with your office. you have since taken a very aggressive role in saying that while policing needs to be done, policing needs to be accountable. you've had some difficulty in getting the participation of the new york police department and the new york mayor's office. >> so, ali, i've been tasked with the responsibility of investigating interactions between the police and protesters over the past few weeks, basically to get answers and to seek justice and to put forth some recommendations. and so we had two days of hearings last week. we had over 100 witnesses who have come forth. 17 hours of testimony. we're continuing to have conversations with nypd as well as the unions that represent the members of the police force. they have submitted written testimony, members of the union, and we are continuing again negotiating with nypd. we hope that they will come

before us and submit testimony. it's important that we have a balanced picture of exactly what happened the last few weeks, particularly during the curfew that we address some of the troubling things that we saw, such as this maneuver known as kettling. the use of pepper spray, the fact that batons were used, the fact that a significant number of people, protesters, were injured, seriously injured. these are some -- and the videos that were submitted were very disturbing. and it's important, again, that we hear from nypd with regards to why they felt it necessary to use violence against peaceful protesters who basically just wanted to have their voices heard. >> and i will repeat for our audience that your office has asked for evidence that people have, whether it's videos are other information that they have. new york attorney general

letitia james, always a pleasure to talk to you. thank you for joining me this morning. president trump was trying to push past the coronavirus pandemic during his campaign-style rally in tulsa, oklahoma, last night. the arena which holds 19,000 and had plenty of empty seats was not socially distanced. very few people were wearing masks, even though liability waivers were required for those in attendance just in case anybody happened to contract covid-19. this morning concerns are surfacing that the event could be a potential super spreader breeding ground after six trump staffers who were in tulsa, including two members of the secret service, tested positive for covid-19 before the event even started. the rally taking place as worldwide cases of covid-19 approach the unthinkable 9 million. almost half a million people around the world have died. the united states makes up more than a quarter of the world's confirmed cases, nearly 2.3 million and more than 120,000

deaths. more people have died of coronavirus than died -- than americans died in the first world war. what's worse, a model once used by the white house now projects that more than 200,000 americans could die of covid-19 by october 1st. and for those putting all the hope on the arrival of vaccine, there's a little bit of a wake-up call from the former acting cdc director richard besser this week on "morning joe." >> i think you sobered a lot of people up the other day when you said in an interview that there is no guarantee we will ever have a vaccine. >> i have faith in the science community that they will be able to develop a vaccine. but yeah, there's no guarantee and there's no guarantee on timeline. the tools that we're using right now in terms of social distancing, wearing masks, washing our hands, those are the tools that we have. what i expect that we'll see is those measures of social distancing being dialed up and dialed down, depending on what's going on in communities.

>> all right. here's the reality. there is no vaccine. we do not have herd immunity. and this administration is seemingly decided to move on. we're still in this thing. it's a pandemic. joining me now is richard horton, the editor in chief of "the lancet" and author of "the covid-19 catastrophe." richard, thank you for being with us. i don't understand why the happy talk. why we wouldn't prepare for the worst. we didn't do it in the beginning and there are studies that indicate ars a result of that w have lost more lives than we should have. but it does appear that the coronavirus task force at the federal level has moved on. they just moved on. we still have lots and lots of people dying. we're projecting 200,000 deaths by october. >> yes, we're projecting those deaths. as w.h.o. has said just in the past few days, we're living through one of the most

dangerous phases of the outbreak. the virus is still sweeping across the world, it's sweeping through latin america, the middle east, south asia. there's a lot of talk about a second wave. we haven't even finished the first wave yet. so this is not the time to stop. this is the time to double down. we need to make sure that we cut the lines of transmission of the virus. we're seeing deaths from this virus when there is no effective way of preventing that infection. so this is an urgent emergency and it's reckless to be moving on. >> richard, there are series infections in our history in which we have put a great deal of money and research for which -- viruses for which there are no vaccines to this day. zeke emmanuel and i were talking and he said when going into this business of trying to get a vaccine, you almost have to assume failure is the outcome. it is really hard to get a vaccine that has the effectiveness that you need,

that doesn't have side effects given that millions of people are going to want this vaccine. if there's a coronavirus vaccine, it will be the most popular vaccine possibly in history. >> you're absolutely right. no vaccine is 100% safe, 100% effective, and not 100% of people will be able to receive it. so we're going to have to peacefully coexist with this virus for a long time to come. that means that we are going to have to experience a change in our behavior. there is no going back to the way we lived life before, and that's the message that has to come from government officials. it's a difficult message because it's going to affect every aspect of our lives. at work, in our schools, even in our families. and we have to prepare for that. we have to accept that some measure of mask wearing, physical distancing, greater attention to our hygiene, avoiding mass gatherings. it was frightening to see that rally last night with people

sitting packed together, not wearing masks, no distance between them. that's an incubator for a flare-up in the pandemic. and please be assured, deaths will result from that. for people who are older, in their 50s, 60s and 70s, they have a much higher risk of fatality. and in this present situation where we don't have supereffective treatment, this is very, very dangerous. i cannot believe that a president of the united states, the country with the greatest scientific expertise of any nation in the world, would allow that event to take place. >> richard, let me ask you because we're moving at such speed here, there are false starts and errors. they don't usually happen at "the lancet" but you had one with respect to to hydroxychloroqui hydroxychloroquine. tell me what happened here. >> yes, that's right. this was a monumental fraud that

took place with this new database where an individual apparently fabricated data, worked with colleagues at the brigham hospital in boston at one of the finest institutions in the world. he was able to deceive them in his work. he was able to deceive us. he was able to deceive our peer reviewers. he did the same at the new england journal of medicine which also had to retract a paper. unfortunately, science is no different from any other part of society. there are bad people in science just as there are bad people in the rest of our communities. and when they choose maliciously to harm the scientific enterprise, i'm afraid that that can happen. >> richard, thank you for joining me. thank you for your expertise and thank you for the work that "the lancet" does because we'll continue to rely on it.

author of "the covid-19 catastrophe, what's gone wrong and how to stop it from happening again." two police reform builds are being put forth in congress but do either of them do what needs to be done and that's empower good cops to the point where change begins. we'll talk about it when "velshi" continues. ontinues mornings were made for better things than rheumatoid arthritis. when considering another treatment, ask about xeljanz a pill for adults with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis when methotrexate

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after years and years of witnessing police brutality and what follows in the courts, we've seen it's rare for officers to be charged for their actions, let alone for law enforcement to assist in victims' quest for justice. but police culture is changing. with more officers realizing that the flaws of our criminal justice system exist, the blue wall of silence may at some point start to come down. the push for accountability begins with good police speaking up and disavowing bad cops, not protecting them. joining me now are mark claxton,

director of the black law enforcement alliance and captain sonia pruitt of the montgomery county police department in laurel, maryland. she's the chairperson for the national black police association. both of you have worked as police, do work as police and work with police. one of the things that we've discussed, captain pruitt, is the degree to which there are good police out there. i'm going to get some angry tweets for saying it but there are. we know there are, you know there are. it is hard for them to come forward in the face of some unions in some cases in the face of that blue line. what do we need from them and how can we help them come forward and say policing is not what everybody thinks it is. >> right. so ethical policing requires some courage. it requires courage from the officers who are serving and it particularly requires courage from our leadership, our police chiefs, our commissioners, so

officers can feel empowered to be those good officers that we talk about. we have a case in buffalo, new york, in 2008 she was fired from stopping her partner from choking and handcuffing a black suspect. those are things we need to be rewarding people for, not punishing them for. that blue wall, you get stuck to it and get rewarded for doing something you should not be doing, which is not turning in the person that you see -- the officer that you see doing something wrong or not telling your supervisor, hey, i know some things are going on that should not be happening. that should -- what should be rewarded are those officers who are willing to stand ethically to protect and serve. >> and mark, look, in any profession nobody wants to be the snitch. but there are different things at play here. one is justice. one is actually the safety of people. one is the degree to which we

are supposed to hold law enforcement in esteem. these are the people we trust with our lives. what in your opinion are the impediments to changing this culture? >> the culture itself, the rules within the culture, the us against them mentality that is forced by the unions in large part, the lack of discipline within our profession. look, i think a lot of people don't even treat the profession that they're in, law enforcement policing, as a profession and don't take the necessary care and are not really determined to maintain and protect the integrity of the profession, which requires oftentimes reform and change and evolution. it requires oftentimes additional responsibility. when you talk about things like qualified immunity, et cetera, that's part of this reform package.

so there are obligations that the professional police officer has to the profession and to themselves individually, but most importantly to the community at large. >> sonia, how do you confront the issue of being a black woman police captain? is that something that's embraced by everybody around you? >> the short answer is no. i often say that black women are probably at the bottom of the totem pole in law enforcement, although many of us eventually rise to the occasion because of our work ethic. but the truth of the matter is inside policing not just black women, but minority officers, white women, it's a struggle. and just imagine that there is a correlation. if there is a struggle for minority officers and women on the inside of police departments, then obviously there's going to be a struggle

on the outside. so when the public says to us, hey, listen, we don't like the way that we are being policed, then of course we know that it is true because we don't like the way sometimes that we are treated on the inside. it is real. >> marq, sonia is a captain. you were a detective, which means you both did things to work your way up the system. what's the bigger part of the culture issue? is it cops sticking together? is it unions? is it systemic racism within the system? because both of you have managed to overcome some degree of it to achieve what you achieved in your careers. >> well, first of all, i would say, ali, i don't know if it's a matter of overcoming it or being able to adapt and succeed even within the culture itself and i think that's more or less what i have done and i'm sure captain pruitt may have the same

sentiment. listen, the culture is very strong. but you have to realize that people come into policing, they carry their own baggage into policing. so you don't necessarily have to have -- you don't necessarily come into policing with a strong enough mindset to kind of defend yourself against the insistence that we must form this clique, that we must above all defend against everything outside of our own little special space here. we must maintain this misogyny, we must maintain this racial bias and implicit bias. we must maintain all of these things that are not necessarily helpful to the profession itself. and i think what's important now, in this day and age, is that we have a real commitment to reform, revolutionary reform, and the time is really now for that as opposed to just mitigating the damages caused by racist policing, biased policing, et cetera. if we fail to act in a holistic

and revolutionary fashion right now and we fail to deal and address with the issues of police culture, toxic police culture, then we drop the ball here and we would just be mitigating the damages of executions of black people in the streets that has historically occurred in this country. >> i know that there are people out there who are legitimately angry and who have said to me in the last few weeks in the streets of new york that there are no good police. i know that not to be true in my personal experience and in my friendships, but the two of you are demonstrations that there are good police and we thank you for being them. marq claxton is a retired nypd detective and director of the black law enforcement alliance. captain sonia pruitt of montgomery county pd in maryland. she's the chairwoman for the national black police association. thank you for the work that you both do. president trump lost multiple court battles this week

and lost another one this weekend. a federal judge will not block the publication of john bolton's white house tell-all memoir. donald trump's reaction to it all, next. stay with us. 's reaction to it all, next. stay with us

well, there were any number of conversations between the president and erdogan of turkey on the subject of hawkbank. and what erdogan wanted was

basically a settlement that would take the pressure off. and the president said to erdogan at one point, look, those prosecutors in new york are obama people. wait till i get my people in and then we'll take care of this. and i thought to myself, and i'm a department of justice alumnus myself, i've never heard any president say anything like that. ever. i tell you, it did feel like obstruction of justice to me. this idea that you give erdogan and his family, who use hawkbank like a slush fund in exchange for, what, some hope down the road of some other kind of treatment for trump or the country was very troubling to me. >> it was so troubling to john bolton that he waited until he could make money off the information before relaying it to the american people or the department of justice or the united states congress. for better or most likely for worse, bolton's idea of expertise is foreign policy, replete with an obsession with

national security. but given that, what does it say when much of his new memoir on his time in the white house, "the room where it happened" is spent essentially laying out the many ways president trump is a national security threat who has a, quote, penchant to give personal favors to dictators he liked and every decision is selfishly driven by re-election calculations. joining me now, mickelson national security analyst, jeremy bash. he's a former chief of staff at the defense department and the cia. jeremy, i had michael ignatius on yesterday who said for a book that is nothing but critical, it's not self-critical at all about john bolton and his own shortcomings. but it's not just that he thinks donald trump is ignorant and foolish and not well read, he actually says the guy was a threat to national security and continues to be and yet he waited for his book. >> yeah, i think there are two dimensions to the argument that donald trump is a threat, according to this bolton

narrative. remember, bolton is a lawyer, he's someone who obviously has been a darling in conservative circles. he's no -- he's no member of the mainstream media, he's no kind of left-wing activist. he is someone who donald trump hand picked and was a principal apologist and promoter of donald trump's foreign policy. so for him to do a 180 and say here now publicly that donald trump, number one, didn't have the mental capacity to do the job of commander in chief, didn't know basic facts about our national security and wasn't interested in learning, wasn't interested in taking briefings, wasn't interested in hearing from experts, and second, acted with malice, acted in personal venal self-interests when he talks about, for example, rewarding dictators in hopes that the dictators will reward trump personally. i think the turkey example that you noted in the setup here, ali, is very telling. first of all, it refers specifically to the southern district of new york, the u.s. attorney's office where, of course, the u.s. has been fired.

and second of all, we know that the trump organization has been trying to build real estate projects in turkey, in istanbul. in order for those projects to be green lighted, they would have to have the approval of erdogan of turkey. that's potentially one of the issues that the u.s. attorney's office is investigating. >> so here's the thing, there are -- there were many more, but there are a lot of republican senators who are national security hawks. we've got marco rubio, lindsey graham, pro military. you know, people who you'd think would think this stuff is shocking. but they kind of knew it, jeremy. we kind of knew all of this stuff. we had seen it in other books. we had seen it from other people who had left the administration. and now you see it from john bolton, the guy who everybody knows is the hawk of all hawks. why does it change nothing? >> well, again, i don't know if it changes nothing, ali. i think there are obviously many

members on capitol hill who have said essentially we're with donald trump till the end and what we've signed up for trump, even last night in tulsa you saw many members of his followers who are literally willing to risk their lives for him. so i don't think much is going to change that. but i do think it does chip away at this narrative that somehow donald trump is a foreign policy genius, that he's smashed all of these national security totems, that he's done things in an unorthodox way for the betterment of the american people. i think this book rips the mask off of that. i think if you look at specifically what trump has claimed that he's been tough on china and this book explains that he's actually been on hands and knees groveling towards xi jinping and saying help me in my election, i think that undermines that entire claim which will be very critical over the next several months. >> all right. well, then you are more optimistic than i am about that. jeremy bash, thank you. always good to see you, my friend. jeremy is a former chief of

staff at the cia and department of defense and he's an msnbc national security analyst. a social media giant has finally decided that president trump crossed a line and it's about time. that's ahead. th at's ahead

facebook's inability to cut down on racism and fake news has left people calling for more regulation on the tech giant. despite the criticisms, ceo mark zuckerberg has largely refused

to do anything at all. just about a month ago he told cnbc that internet platforms should not be the arbiter of truth. >> internet platforms in general should be arbiters of truth. i think that's a dangerous line. we've tried to distinguish ourselves as probably being one of the tech companies that is the most protective of giving people a voice and free expression overall. there are clear lines that match to specific harms and damage that can be done where we take down the content, but overall including compared to some of the other companies, we try to be more on the side of giving people a voice and free expression. >> all right. since then zuckerberg has faced more issues with the content on his website, much of which has verged on harmful disinformation. now after nearly four years of the website being used by trump as an unfiltered sounding board, facebook finally decided that donald trump had gone too far.

this past week facebook removed nazi imagery posted by the trump campaign, a move by the tech giant that unfortunately did come as a surprise to many. the decision to remove the content as renewed scrutiny into companies. now jennifer griegel joins us and the newest faculty member of the lgbt studies program at syracuse. jennifer, congratulations on that. >> thanks. >> and thank you for continuing to be with us. it's a great honor and great to have you here. we get to say we knew you when. >> thank you. >> jennifer, what's your take on this? the multiple problems with facebook are they allow everybody to say everything, they tend to be late to the party in deciding what to do, but now they have the ire of the president because they finally decided that trump's gone too far. how do regular people think about this? >> yeah. well, you know, mark zuckerberg

really was congratulating himself there, but i'm not impressed and i don't think a lot of the american people are either. what we need is platforms to take on more accountability, to do a better job of regulating their platform and managing it like they're claiming that they're going to. but you can't do it after the fact. you can't do it after such a hateful ad from the president is promoted widely and seen. the harm is already done. and at this point, yes, we need facebook to clean up their platform to make it better, but the issue is bigger. it has to do with federal propaganda. the president of the united states should not be having such a large megaphone to pr propagandize americans like this. >> roger, you have written in your book and understood that facebook exists to engage people. controversial things engage people more than noncontroversial things do. mark zuckerberg has turned this into some kind of a mantra about

engagement and free speech and platforms. what's the line to walk and how do they fix it? >> so, ali, i agree with mark. the last thing on earth i want to see is facebook or any internet platform determining a internet platform determining what qualifies as free speech and what is appropriate speech. the issue here is the business model. you know, i totally think mark is disingenuous in his frame. this is not a speech issue. this has to do with having algorithms. and sadly, hate speech, disinformation, conspiracy theories are particularly effective because they trigger our self-protection. our flight or fight instincts. what i want to do is get them out of the business of promoting content at all. i think if you treat all content equally then the issues related to hate speech, conspiracy theories, shrink in magnitude really dramatically. i think what's going on right

now with facebook and twitter, actually tagging a few things for threatening public safety and for blocking a few things that had lies in them, what is below the bare minimum they should be doing. they literally let thousands of other tweets through from trump or posts from trump that contain lies and contain exaggerations and threats. so we do not want to be give them any credit other than to say, well, at least you're doing something. but seriously, guys, this is not nearly enough. and the public should be outraged. the country is going through a period of self-assessment right now. this is one of the core elements for allowing, you know, people to be harmed in our society. one of the tools that the harmers are using. >> jennifer, there's some concern that there's no regulation, others say they're private companies and the fear is that we do the wrong thing in attempting to regulate them, right? it's this case, there's movement amongst conservatives who think

that social media is anti-conservative. so what is the right if any legislation look like to deal with social media? >> yeah. again, i totally agree with what roger said too. there's no like international laws that govern social media. so it's really been europe that's pushing, you know, the regulation forward with privacy regulation. duty of care to make sure there's not harmful content out there on the platform. at this point we have to grapple with what's happening here in the united states and what's called section 230 and like, you know, how the platforms decide what to pull down and if they're being biased or not. but really, what's core here in the united states is that these platforms have had broad immunity to moderate content when they need to. but they're not even doing what they have promised to the american people to users around the world. they have not been pulling down enough content and they don't

even have enough staff or employees to manage the billions of posts being put out there. it's coming back into play in politics as we are about to approach another election in the united states. so we need platforms to step up and get it right. >> roger, i have 30 seconds but that's a big alarm that you sound. this is about -- this translates into voter suppression. this translates into bad information for the upcoming election. >> it -- and other people are starting to step up and take a position here. there's a new nonprofit called stop hate for profit.org which is being led by the naacp, which is being led by color of change. the adl, common sense media, free press and sleeping giants. people should go to stop hate for profit.org or just post something on facebook. they're calling for a pause for the month of july. and we should all join that to let them know that hate is not

an appropriate thing on social media or anywhere in our society. >> thanks to both of you for being with me this morning. roger mcnamee, jennifer greigeal, from syracuse university and the newest faculty member of the lgbt studies program at syracuse. congratulations, again. thanks to both you have. that does it for me this morning. before i go, i want to take a moment to acknowledge all the dads out there including my own. many of us kids won't be where we are today without you, so thank you for all your love and shout out to all of the moms pulling double duty. your love and sacrifice is greatly appreciated and doesn't go unnoticed. while my matter won't be with me and my kids won't be as well, i'm here for them. that's seven children won't know

they won't know this year. john floyd and connie, they were estranged from their father. george moved to minneapolis in part to do right by his younger daughter gianna, just 6 years old. gianna's mom said she'll miss him greatly. hours before rayshard brooks was killed by police on friday, june 12th he had take his oldest daughter 8-year-old blessing to get her nails done for her birthday. she put on a special dress, she had cupcakes, she wondered what time her dad was coming to take her skating like he had promised. rayshard's 2-year-old memory and 1-year-old dream with too young to understand why they will never see their father again. however, as 13-year-old step son is old enough to know and old enough to understand that being a black man in america doing ordinary things comes with

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because they never quit. people are mass ordering tickets, they played them. they got played by teenagers. >> there's the -- that's the screen and the set-up for the overflow crowd outside the bok stadium. there is no overflow crowd

outside the boc stadium because the stadium itself isn't full. in fact, it's -- there's a lot of empty space on the inside. >> i think that heads will roll over this. i mean, you couldn't have had worse and more disastrous opening to this campaign. good morning. happy father's day and welcome to "a.m. joy" and quite a father's day it will be in america. for families like george floyd's and rayshard brooks' whose killings have put people in the streets for 26 days and counting. not that the president of the united states seems to have noticed. instead, donald j. trump decided to throw him a self-esteem party in tulsa, oklahoma. the saturday night return of the trump rally was meant to boost not just his sour mood as he sits in the white house longing for the crowds and the applause and the lock her ups, but also to reenergize his campaign